the radio. >> that's a good one. >> the man they called steven b. >> have a good weekend. >> bye. >> that's all for this edition of date line extra. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. a vivacious young mother of three found murdered in a field.

>> it's a lot of sadness. that someone would do that to a mother? >> why would this happen to her? >> was it someone she met that night? is it someone she knows? do we know them? >> blood in the house. in the car. on the road. and the trail led straight to her boyfriend.

wisconsin. home of the legendary packers. a place where folks love their sunday football and a good "knock down" on lambeau field. but this past winter, after the football season had ended, the city became transfixed by a new battle of sorts. one that played out -- not on the gridiron -- instead, in a court room. a murder case where nothing was as it seemed.

>> reporter: kids meant the world to nikki and she had two of her own. a son and a daughter from a previous marriage. >> was she a good mom? >> absolutely. she's amazing mom. >> reporter: in 2015, the busy mother finally decided to start dating again, when she met 33-year-old doug detrie. the two immediately hit it off. >> when they met, everything happened quickly -- with their relationship. they just, you know, clicked right away.

>> reporter: nikki was as active as she was loyal. >> what did nikki like to do? >> she was so spontaneous. we would jump on the trampoline, be cooking, be planting, be making games, just up for, like, any adventure. >> reporter: case in point, how nikki celebrated her 29th birthday. >> she decided to jump off a plane. >> reporter: that's nikki taking the leap. >> yep, with a big smile on her face. >> reporter: nikki also taught high school science and shared a passion for biology with her students. >> i think she just loved the discovery of things.

>> reporter: doug came from a prominent green bay family that owned a successful home building company. he had a reputation around town as an attractive, wealthy bachelor -- a catch. >> do you think that's part of what attracted nikki to him? >> i'm sure it was. you know, him and his family having a company. him having his own house in a nice neighborhood. any woman would be attracted to that.

>> reporter: about a month after they met, nikki was pregnant. >> i think she was probably surprised. but, you know, like -- a good surprise. >> reporter: in october 2015, she and doug welcomed a son into their lives. >> i think she was very excited to be a mother again.

>> reporter: nikki wasted no time getting back in shape by hitting the gym. >> that was one thing about nikki.

>> reporter: the facts were stark and ugly. one night in november, 2006, while her husband was away on business, michelle young was attacked in her bedroom and brutally beaten to death. her body discovered the next day by her sister meredith along with her 2 1/2-year-old daughter cassidy, who had been left to wander in her blood.

>> michelle's husband jason, a medical software salesman, was 170 miles away the night of the murder. even so, investigators had to look at him. >> we know he was the last person to talk to michelle that night. and he was also the reason why she was found. he called meredith fisher to go to the house. >> reporter: jason young's business trip that night was routine. security tape showed him getting gas, 7:30 p.m. as he left raleigh. two hours later seen on tape at a cracker barrel restaurant in greensboro. later checked into the hampton inn in hillsdale, virginia. this is him front desk. 11:00 p.m. and him again at midnight. he also made a phone call around midnight. and that was the last time anybody heard from jason young until he made another call at 7:40 the next morning. >> a normal person would look at this and say he was 170 miles away. he's got an alibi. >> that sounds like a great distance, you know? but 170 miles you can get between the crime scene and the hotel in about two and a half hours. >> reporter: perhaps. but there were curious anomalies at the crime scene. couldn't explain them. a jewelry box was missing two drawers.

so was it a bungled burglary? then there were footprints near the body that seemed to eliminate jason. an obvious print on the pillow was a size 10. but jason wore a size 12. but this was weird. there was another partial footprint. it defied easy identification, so they began calling in shoe experts. and now they wondered were there two attackers? of course, investigators discovered early on michelle and jason's marriage was strained. and in the last weeks of michelle's life, things were not good. >> at our friend shelley's wedding he was so drunk. just really out of it. when we got to the wedding, our friends were letting us know michelle and jason were fighting and they were referring to it as world war iii. >> jennifer powers told investigators about another fight that october. michelle wanted her mother to stay with them for the holidays. and jason, who had a tense and

jason, who had a tense relationship with his mother-in-law, wanted to limit her stay. and said so in an e-mail. along with another nugget. >> he wrote, our marriage has seen better days, i don't see it trending up. i remember that really striking a chord with me. i didn't know that their marriage had seen better days. >> reporter: of course investigators wanted to interview jason young. maybe he could tell them something. but he refused to talk to them. >> he talked to the lawyer. and then under the advice of counsel, he declined to speak with us at all. >> reporter: didn't ask? didn't ask how his wife died? >> no. >> reporter: perhaps, investigators thought the business trip deserved a second look. they want to the hotel. poked around and discovered some odd activities that night in a stairwell near an exit. >> there was a camera there unplugged. >> really.

>> yes, one of the side exits for the hotel. one of the fire stairs that go down to the first floor. >> reporter: any other tampering done? >> the door that was adjacent to where the camera was located the door also had been propped open that night. >> how do you know that? >> the gentleman working as the clerk that night found a rock placed in the door to keep the door from closing. >> well, then they plugged the camera back in, so it's now working again. and at about 6:35 that morning suddenly that camera is pointing straight at the ceiling. >> same camera? >> same camera. tampered with yet again. >> reporter: if that was jason young's work, is it possible he did make the 340 round trip? could he have killed his wife and cleaned up his daughter all in seven and a half hours? without ever being seen? to find out, investigators played a hunch. they visited every gas station along the route.

showed jason's photo, tucked to the night clerks. and came across a woman named tracy doms in a tiny place called king, north carolina. she took one look at the photograph and recognized it instantly. he was the foul-mouthed customer she said who came into the store to complain that the pumps were locked. and what time was it? 5:30 a.m., morning of the murder. >> there was actually an altercation between the two of them. so you have a reason why she would remember him as opposed to any other customer that may have just happened into the store. >> reporter: if that attendant was right, investigators may have undercut jason's alibi. still, it wasn't enough. so they plodded ahead, painstaking work, took time. and then, years after the murder, they finally got a match for that partial footprint. >> the state bureau of investigation and the fbi were able to eventually identify that

shoe as a hush puppy shoe, size 12, which was the same size that he wore. >> reporter: throughout the investigation, jason steadfastly maintained silence. rather than face a legal battle where he'd be asked some tough questions, spivey said, he even gave michelle's family custody of his daughter. >> all of them talked about how much he loved cassidy. what a great dad he was. to just turn over primary custody, that was -- that was very surprising. >> reporter: investigators had heard enough. they believed they had a case. circumstantial, but a case. and three years after michelle young's body was found on the bedroom floor, jason young was charged with her murder. investigators and prosecutors knew that very little pointed directly toward jason young, but so far nothing pointed away. coming up, the case against

jason young as an alleged killer and as a cheating husband. >> we had an intimate relationship for the two days he was there. >> we ended up having sex. >> he never settled down. >> when "dateline" continues.

jason young went on trial for the murder of his pregnant wife michelle in june 2011. by then, he had spent 18 months in a jail cell. the guy who lived for tailgates. the guy who loved to party, that guy was long gone. prosecutor becky holt opened for the state. >> defendant had a plan. his plan was to murder his wife. his plan was to get away with it.

>> reporter: with no murder weapon found, the prosecution's case was built on that partial shoe print. they knew now that jason once owned a pair of hushpuppies like these that matched the print. they were now missing. they also told jurors about the early morning visit to the gas station and the suspicious activity at the hotel, but the thrust of their case was this. jason young was trying in the most violent possible way to get out of a troubled marriage. >> were you aware of tensions in that marriage? >> yes. i was well aware. >> reporter: meredith fisher, michelle's sister, lived near the couple.

and for a period was cassidy's nanny. as the young's fights intensified, she took on the role of marriage counselor too. >> what would you say were the main issues? >> michelle's main issues were, jason being more responsible, understanding her more, and his main concern was their lack of sex life. >> prosecutors called friends to the stand to paint a picture of a marriage that was unraveling out loud and in public. >> jason made it very well known that, you know, he was upset about the lack of sex in the relationship. >> reporter: and at parties, said fiona childs, jason's x rated tricks were famously over the top. >> i never observed it myself. i would just hear about it. and you know, he would expose himself and do what he thought was these funny tricks. and i was always just rather embarrassed for michelle. >> he never settled down. it was as if he was still living the single life, that he never bought into the marriage. what that -- what all that meant.

>> reporter: in october 2006, when michelle was four months pregnant, jason became deeply involved with another woman. and not just any woman. michelle was one of michelle young's close friends from college. one of those charlie's angels. in early october, days before his third wedding anniversary, jason flew to florida to see michelle who testified they both knew it was wrong. >> we basically just hung out at the house and we had an intimate relationship for the two days that he was there. >> reporter: jason was crazy about her. his friend josh dalton said. >> he basically told me that he thought was in love with her. >> reporter: michelle's mother, linda fisher, testified in the final weeks of her life. she could see the toll the failing marriage was taking on her pregnant daughter. >> she had her head on my lap. and she was lying down.

and i was stroking her hair. and -- and she was empty. >> what did she tell you? >> things weren't working out with jason. >> reporter: two days before she was murdered, michelle phoned her sister meredith to report yet another blowup with jason. >> she was just, "i've had it." she said, "you know, more than one time, i just can't do this anymore." >> reporter: jason was telling one of his close friends the same thing. and prosecutors said just days before michelle was murdered, he had indulged in one last transgression. a casual hook-up with an old friend named carol ann sauerby in his own living room. michelle was away at the time. >> cassidy was put down to bed. and i had a couple drinks.

just were talking. and we ended up having sex. >> reporter: but divorce was apparently not an option for jason. >> he had made a statement at one time he was afraid if he ever got a divorce that michelle would take cassidy and move back to new york. >> and did he indicate he would have concerns about seeing cassidy again? >> correct. >> reporter: one question remained. was a good time guy like jason young even capable of murder? genevieve cargo was engaged to jason before he met michelle. she took the stand to testify about a fight over jason's excessive drinking. >> he became agitated and said something to the effect if i am going to make such a terrible

husband, then give me my ring back. >> did you give it to the defendant? >> no. he began trying to pull the ring off. it wouldn't come off. he was throwing me from one bed to the other and jumping on me with all his weight and pinning my arms, both of them, behind me. >> reporter: prosecutors hoped to convince the jury it all added up to motive for murder. so how would the defense counterattack? with a witness who could refute every charge. coming up, jason young finally breaks his silence as he takes the stand to testify. >> did you kill your wife, michelle? >> no, sir. >> were you there when it happened? >> no, sir. (burke) that's what we call a huge drag.

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the most compelling stories. traffic and roads... a mess, honestlyrents going up,le. friends and family moving out of state, millions of californians live near or below the poverty line. politicians like gavin newsom talk about change, but they've done nothing. sky-high gas and food prices. homelessness. gavin newsom, it happened on your watch. so, yeah. it is time for a change. time for someone new.

what the prosecution didn't tell you -- >> reporter: there is an art to the business of criminal defense. and it would take an artist to repaint the prosecution's dark portrait of jason young. so what could the defense attorney, mike clinkson, do? well, to begin with, he told the jury, he agreed with the prosecution. jason young was not a good husband. >> he acted at times like an immature jerk. but that does not make him a killer. >> reporter: the defense was not about to make any more concessions, mind you. the jewelry box in the bedroom, there was dna on it. didn't match michelle or jason. suspicious activity at the hotel? there was a fingerprint on that camera and it wasn't jason young's. and there wasn't any forensic evidence that tied jason to the crime scene. there was no blood in his car. there was not a scratch on him. >> ladies and gentlemen, jason lynn young did not murder his

wife. he did not murder their unborn son. and this case has not been solved. >> reporter: who better to make the argument than jason young himself. but so far, he had never said a word to anyone about the november night. and almost five years silence. >> it is always a big decision for defense attorneys whether or not to call their clients. >> reporter: beth carris is a former prosecutor and legal analyst. she covered the trial. >> this is a case that really begged for jason young to testify. if he is innocent. >> reporter: after all this time. >> if he is truly innocent, get on the stand and tell the story. >> we call jason young. >> reporter: with his mother in the front row, jason young prepared to do just that. defense attorney brian collins hit it hard off the top. >> did you kill your wife michelle? >> no, sir. >> were you there when it happened? >> no, sir. >> reporter: what about jason's missing hushpuppies that match the shoe print? he no longer owned them. >> are those the shoes you had

on november 2nd? >> no, sir. >> they were all ratty. >> reporter: they were all ratty. told michelle to give them to goodwill. as for the night of the murder, after she checked into the hotel, he left his room twice. the first time to get a power cord for his laptop. >> i was going over the sales call i had the next day. >> reporter: the second trip he testified was to smoke a cigar. >> i had to go outside to smoke a cigar. i also wanted to look at sports schedules and some standings and so i wanted to see if i could pick up the "usa today" as well. >> reporter: the newspaper run explains why he was seen at the lobby round midnight. >> between the time you smoked the cigar, went back upstairs and went to sleep, did you leave the room until the next morning? >> no, sir. >> reporter: the next morning he realized he had left e-bay printouts on the computer at home.

they showed purses thinking of buying one for michelle as belated anniversary. >> i realize i didn't bring the papers. >> why was it important to you somebody get the papers? >> because i wanted it to be a surprise. a surprise to michelle means so much more. >> reporter: noon, november 3rd. he called his sister-in-law, meredith, from the car and asked if she would go to the house and get the e-bay papers. he left meredith a voice mail. then he headed to his mother's place in the mountains nearby. and it was there he testified, hours later that he learned michelle had been murdered. >> i just fell. i just -- i just broke on the inside. i just broke and i didn't believe it. >> reporter: family members drove him back to raleigh.

during the drive, he said his friends called. >> ryan and josh had said that the investigators were asking really ugly questions and pointing their finger at me and doing things like that. they said you don't need to talk to anybody. you need to got a lawyer before you talk to anybody. >> reporter: and then the explanation for his long silence. >> the lawyer that i got after talking with him, he actually advised me to not go talk to the police. >> did you take that advice? >> yes. i did. >> did he also tell you not to talk to anybody about it? >> that's exactly what he said. he said don't talk to anybody about anything. >> the defense also addressed the motives prosecutors had laid out that jason wanted to escape a bad marriage and keep custody of cassidy and spend time with his new love. >> did you have any designs in your own mind of leaving michelle young for michelle miney? >> no, sir. >> describe why not.

>> i think we both knew it was wrong. i don't think either one dreamed that it would ever be found out. >> pushing me around. >> as for the violent episode with his ex-fiancee, jason had an explanation for it. >> did you throw her around on the bed like she said? >> no, sir. what i did was wrong. i did pin her down and i took the ring. >> okay. what was your level of intoxication at that time? >> i was very intoxicated. but i don't feel like that is an excuse for what i did. >> reporter: they questioned him about the most important woman in his life. >> did you want to stay married to michelle? >> yes, i did. i wanted to have -- have another baby and i wanted the family to grow. >> reporter: he also explained why he gave up custody of his daughter without a fight. >> were you able to afford a lawyer for a full blown custody battle? >> no, sir, i had -- due to the

media and some of the internet website, the job that i had, i lost it. >> reporter: his testimony lasted three hours. >> jason young was a very good witness. he understood what he had to do when he was on the stand. >> reporter: so he didn't come off as contrived or phony? like he had put this together very carefully in order to account for all of the evidence that they had? >> he had access to police reports. all of the discovery. he knew the state's vulnerabilities. and so he could arguably tailor his testimony to fit with an innocent explanation. >> reporter: how did jason young do? 12 jurors were about to decide. coming up, the prosecutor gets her chance to go one-on-one with jason young and it isn't pretty. >> were you working on your marriage when you were having

sex with carolyn sauerby in your home? >> when "dateline" continues.

>> reporter: it was riveting. almost five years of silence about his wife's murder broken here in this courtroom.

>> i loved cassidy. and i loved michelle. >> and then he went to murder his wife. >> now prosecutor, becky holk, began pulling apart a story she heard for the first time. >> were you working on your marriage when you were having sex with caroline sauerby in your home less than two weeks before your wife was murdered? >> no, ma'am, that was not the way to work on a marriage. that was detrimental. >> were you working on your marriage when you called michelle miney? >> michelle and i confided a lot in each other. we talked about my issues with my wife. she talked about her issues with her husband. >> so is the answer yes when you had an affair with michelle miney that you were working on your marriage? >> no, ma'am. having sexual intercourse and having intimacy was very detrimental to that. >> the cross-examination lasted a full hour. and the next day the case went to the jury. >> retire to the jury deliberation room. >> reporter: it soon became

clear jurors were having trouble. >> indicated that y'all have not reached a unanimous decision. >> reporter: the jurors were split 6-6. the judge sent them back to try to make it unanimous. >> the jurors leave for a second. >> reporter: hours later they were back. in courtroom 3c, and it was still. >> it appears that they are hopelessly deadlocked at this point. >> reporter: eight jurors had voted for acquittal. four voted guilty. judge stevens declared a mistrial. was serious consideration given to dropping the case? >> i think there was serious consideration as to is there more we can do. >> reporter: so the prosecutors decide they would try again. but this time with the one thing they didn't have the first time. jason's own story. the second trial began in february 2012. this time howard cummings led the prosecution, hoping to use jason's own words to convict him.

>> put your left hand on the bible, raise your right hand. >> reporter: first prosecutors called the night clerk at the gas station, gracie, who remembered jason complaining about the locked pumps. >> when he came in to pay, he started cussing and raising cane. >> what time did this happen? >> that was 5:00, 5:30 in the morning. the time jason said he was at the hotel. >> call your next witness. >> prosecutors had new witnesses and testimony. they wanted jurors to hear about cassidy, whose bloody footprints they contended made her a silent witness to murder. >> when i got to cassidy, i said what are you doing? >> day care worker ashley pomentier took the stand. she told jurors she watched cass -- cassidy playing alone days after her mother was murder. >> she had the chair and the doll in her hands. she took the dolls and just hit them.

>> reporter: as unsettling as it was, prosecutors wanted jurors to know the killer left a silent witness behind. a witness he would never harm. the fact that cassidy was spared, did that mean anything to you? or would that mean anything to a jury? >> certainly. it meant that the person that killed the mother, we felt, cared about cassidy. >> i do. >> thank you. >> fiona childs took the stand. prosecutors pressed her about a life insurance policy. and michelle questioned. >> that she brought up specifically her life insurance. she brought it up several times, asking me did i think a million dollars was too much and did they really need that. >> reporter: after michelle died, fiona found out the true amount of the policy was $4 million. >> i was just like in total shock. that is incredibly excessive.

>> reporter: and prosecutors told the jury about civil lawsuits against jason brought by michelle's mother and sister. one was a wrongful death case filed in 2008, a year before he was charged with murder. over the defense's objection, the court clerk laura freeman testified about that lawsuit. >> there is an alleged paragraph, paragraph 6, again reading verbatim from the record, in the early morning hours of november 3, 2006, jason young brutally murdered michelle young at their residence. >> freeman went on to testify that jason never responded to the allegations. and that led to a default judgment against him. that judgment said jason killed his wife. a default judgment does not mean the facts alleged in the civil complaint are true. it does not mean he is guilty. and the judge at the criminal trial told the jury that in his instructions. however, when you hear the statement jason young brutally murdered his wife, but that doesn't mean he's guilty,

focuses. hello? you know? >> reporter: and the prosecutor made sure the jury heard just who signed that ruling. >> i'm reading from this judgment which is signed actually by judge stevens. >> reporter: judge stevens, the very judge sitting before them in this trial. >> the jury hearing that, it is just something that is going to carry a lot of weight. >> this is the complaint that was filed in december seeking custody of cassidy. >> reporter: prosecutors also called the attorney involved in that custody case over daughter cassidy, and those same allegations were repeated yet again. >> the jury heard several times through these two civil complaints that jason young brutally murdered michelle fisher young. >> reporter: but the headline came when prosecutors played jason young's entire testimony from the first trial -- >> i wanted her to have that. >> -- and began to rip it apart. >> i don't remember.

>> reporter: prosecutors tried to show jason's call to meredith to pick up the e-bay printouts was merely a ploy to get her to discover the body and find cassidy. why else would he print an e-bay auction ad leave it on the printer and hit the road where he couldn't bid during the actual auction? they called sergeant spivey to the stand. >> that auction would end, 8:00 p.m. eastern standard time. >> what day was that? >> that was on november 2nd, 2006. >> reporter: just hours before the murder. now prosecutors tried to prove jason lied about his reasons for leaving the hotel room. >> i didn't pull the door. >> reporter: in his original testimony, he told the court he left the first time to get a power cord for his laptop. >> why did you want to look at the laptop? >> i was going over the sales call the next day. >> special agent mike smith took the stand to say that young didn't use his laptop for work that night. >> this is an internet site dedicated to sports.

>> reporter: jason said he went out a second time to smoke a cigar. but prosecutors contended jason was a fierce anti-smoker and the weather that night was freezing, windy. >> can you tell me whether or not there was any substantial outerwear that the defendant either had in his luggage or that he was wearing? >> no, sir, a suit jacket. that was the only outerwear that i am aware of. >> reporter: jason chose not to testify this time. the defense fought back of course. they argued the gas station attendant's memory couldn't beep trusted because of a childhood brain injury. >> i have had memory problems since '06 because i've been through a lot with myself and my kids and my ex-husband. >> reporter: the defense also argued the case really wasn't solved. that there was no physical evidence to prove jason was the killer. >> there wasn't one scratch on mr. young.

>> reporter: he never would have had time to make the trip and commit murder, that he didn't have the mind-set of a killer. and that cigar, it showed that jason young owned a humidor and once made a purchase at a cigar store. >> you have ample evidence before you that jason young is not guilty. >> reporter: and then it was over again. and time for another jury to consider whether jason young would go to jail or walk out of court a free man. coming up, the verdict take two. >> we, the jury, by unanimous verdict find the defendant, jason lynn young, to be -- ♪

for more than five years, michelle young's family and friends had been waiting for answers. who killed their pretty pregnant michelle? many thought they knew. >> it was him. you know, i didn't know all the evidence. i didn't know half the things i know now. but i felt that way. >> one jury failed to decide. and now attorneys were making their final arguments to a second jury. >> be mad at him. hate him if you want to. but when you look at the physical evidence in this case, it does not match up. it does not match up to jason having killed his wife and unborn son. >> 30 blows? that's not from a stranger. that is a mad, mad domestic

abuser. >> reporter: soon that jury was behind closed doors in the wake county superior court. after two days, they were back with a verdict. >> the jury by unanimous verdict find jason lynn young to be guilty of first-degree murder. >> reporter: guilty. first-degree murder. jason young didn't flinch. behind him his mother was equally stoic. on the other side of the court, michelle young's bereaved mother and sister wept. fiona at home got the news from a friend. they said, "he's guilty." i was like, "what? what?" >> reporter: jason young received a life sentence. chose not to address the court. even as the bailiffs led him away, he remained expressionless. the prosecutors were, they told

us, relieved. >> i was very emotional. i have family members there who i have been working with for five, five and a half years. and they finally had justice, you know? >> we have been telling them for years, just trust. just that it will be the right result. >> reporter: but was it? a year and a half ticked by. and then this. >> attorneys for jason young demanding a new trial saying the trial that led to his conviction had significant errors. >> reporter: december 2013. jason young's new attorneys launched his appeal. >> who is the killer? is jason young the person responsible for ms. young's death? it seems fundamentally unfair. >> reporter: what was fundamentally unfair? remember during the trial, the attorney pointed out, the prosecution introduced testimony about those civil cases against jason brought by michelle's

family. they accused jason of murder. >> jason young brutally murdered michelle young. >> the defendant brutally murdered michelle marie fisher young. >> way out of bounds, said the attorney. the jury should not have been allowed to hear about any of that. outside the court, michelle's sister meredith predicted the appeal would be thrown out. >> the jury came to the right verdict. we are confident it will stay. >> reporter: a raleigh man is getting a third trial in the death of his pregnant women. >> reporter: in april, 2014, the judges ruled unanimously that testimony about the civil cases prejudiced the jury. and they took particular exception to the fact that the prosecutor was allowed to tell the jurors it was their trial judge who signed the civil judgment against jason, which said that he killed his wife. in fact, said the appeals court, introducing evidence about the civil cases was a violation of north carolina law. >> that law says you cannot use a civil complaint, a civil allegation, as proof in a criminal case. >> reporter: but over a year

later, the case took yet another turn. the north carolina supreme court said there was no violation of state law and reversed the appeals court decision. jason young remains in prison. the children know little of the arcane world of motions and appeals. cassidy is 11, lives with her aunt meredith. her father, her mother, snatches of memory ever farther away. talk about shudders going down your spine. just like, goodness. this is at a doctor's house. it sent shock waves right away. somebody is after those doctors. somebody is after them. >> it baffled police for years. >> what does the scene tell you? what do your victims tell you? >> a double murder at the home of a prominent doctor couple. >> no fingerprints, no dna. no bloody footprints, nothing. >> theit