now in session. and... adjourned. business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. good morning everybody, welcome to up, i am david gura. there are 23 days until the midterms. new poll numbers indicate that voters are energized. president trump is talking about crowd size. >> who's going to kentucky? if 93,000 applying for 10,000, something is going on. >> the oval office, a new flannery frly free pastor, thank to the president. he and his wife praised him. >> can i ask you one question,

who did you vote for? >> i knew the answer. jared kushner is once again in the cross hairs for his cozy relationships with the saudis and a new report on "the new york times" on his taxes. >> he appears to pay little or no federal income taxes. >> october 14th, 2014. the beginning of a new week and the end of another crazy one. >> i don't want to brag, bro. i have really have a high iq, i am a stable genius and i got a big brain and the best words. >> oh my god. he's black-me. >> welcome to the second day of "up," we are here everyday saturday and sunday at 8:00 a.m. if you are looking for politics nation with al sharpton on

saturday and sunday at 5:00 p.m. eastern time. with me, panels, the author of the book ""the loneliness." >> as americans are going to the polls in 20 days. u you have seen the marches and protests. we are getting a new preview. it is greatest among young adults and non-white voters, those who say they represent the democrats. younger voters even wider. president trump jobs approval ratings have gone up. he's trying to capitalize that. >> on this election day, november 6th, every american faces a simple choice. the democrats have become

totally consumed by their chilling lusts for power. they'll destroy your second amendment and the democrats want to open our borders to a flood of deadly drugs and ruthless gangs. >> i want to start with the top line number, kevin, i am going to turn to you first. you are seeing an uptake among young adults and non white voters. what does that tell you what the midterm is going to shape up like? this is an election that's on the base, the base. there is no other way to look at it. on the left, you have the progressive base fired up and ready to get to the polls and their strategies are going up after suburban women. then you go to the right and you look at what happened with brett kavanaugh, i think this had the complete reverse actual outcome than what democrats thought it is going to happen. now you have mitch mcconnell in

locked steps with president trump heading into these midterm elections. >> leigh, kevin is saying it is all about the base there. you are looking back at 2014 and just looking at enthusiasm among registered voters and 65% going into the midterms and now it is up to 77%. what does it tell you? >> so it tells us that people are fired up and ready to turn out and see some action and ready to see some changes. i agree with kevin, right now you are neck in neck in terms of thinking of enthusiasm and the kavanaugh hearing may have had the opposite reactions among the base. we had the effect of firing up and getting people riled up around congress. on the other hand, men lie and women lie but numbers don't lie. they macon seal but they don't lie. young people are fired up and

non-white voters or minority voters are fired up and really enthusiastic about shifting the power flow of congress right now. really is in some way we may say it is a toss up and historically numbers like this also shown significant gains for the power party, in this case, the democratic party. >> you mentioned enthusiastic people. 2014, 42%, shermichael, i want to turn to you, what accounts for this when you see the uptake in enthusiasm as you look at the landscape right now, what is driving that? >> when you look at each category from younger women and minorities and african-americans and hispanics and although i think democrats do have some issues there because they do support republicans. the president around 35% if i recall correctly, when you look at those groups, those are groups that i would everyone

argue as a republican do feel d disenfranchise by president trump for a whole host of reasons. i think the enthusiasm that we are seeing is a concern to me. the out lining question that i have had for most of this year, sure, democrats will win back the house, david, but wby what? when you look at this poll, i am beginning to become more concerned that they could win by numbers that many on my side that are not expecting. the question is if they do so, what's going to be their message going into 2020? we are nearly three months away from the next presidential election. i am not sure yet. sure, they may take back the house. from the republican perspective, we are doing well with the courts and judge brett kavanaugh, that was a win for conservatives. that benefits us going into the midterms as well. i do have a question on that outlier by which margins and i

am not sure yet. >> on the one count, where you see republicans leading verses democratic leading. there is one area that republicans are leading and that's on the issues of the economy. as you listen to the president talks and he goes to kentucky and ohio, your sense of on an issu issue bases of what's drivering this term? >> they feel like this issue on immigration and issue on just basic pocketbook healthcare issues are drivering a lot ing people concerns. i don't think people are focus on the rule of law. people don't realize that somehow if the republicans took the house of representatives, donald trump would not think two seconds about firing mueller, burying the russian investigation and just completely doing away with it.

so if you are a republican or a democratic and you are concerned of the rule of law, you really have to and everyone if yn if y republican, hold your nose and vote for the democrats in the house. it is critical of the rule of law that the democrats take the house of representatives. >> the rule of law, the republicans out on the trail and you hear it from president trump, they're saying the complete opposite to their base and the rule of law would be jeopardized if democrats were to take the control. turn out segment without talking about taylor swift and kanye west. i would agree and i don't think people are changing their mind. >> the rule of law really has to do with -- >> oh, i hear what you are saying. >> the rules of law whether the russian investigation continues whether with an indictment or

not. the worse thing that could happen is that investigation not to be completed and coming a fuel resolution. >> president tru >> president trump is talking about healthcare. he talked about it yesterday when he was in kentucky. let's take a listen what he had to say on healthcare. >> if nancy pelosi, crying chuck schumer and the radical democrats take over congress, they'll try to raise your taxes and impose believe it or not, socialism, take away your healthcare and your whole life is unaffordable. >> there is that vision that was in that op-ed, he talks about the socialist future of the united states if democrats were to take over. healthcare is a winner for

democrats. it is not a winner for republicans. why do you think he's hammering on it. >> that campaign speec speech -- socialism and chuck schumer and nancy pelosi and again, socialism. these are issues that don't pull well for republicans that don't do well for republicans. you have bernie sanders out here saying everybody should have universal healthcare and affordable healthcare. we want everyone and lower your premiums and things like that. right now particularly in game time the idea is to get your base kind of pumped up and get them thinking and saying whatever you need to say regardless of whether it is rooted in the truth or not. we know donald trump does not care if it is true or the complete opposite or what he said or has not said. the op-ed and the multiple fact-check that came out and

provered th prov proved that. this is about what is the pr that you can do on this. it was apparent in the rally that there are certain trigger words that get very extreme reactions and those are the kinds of reactions they are looking at now. >> midterms are all about turn out. when you pull republicans on healthcare, most of them actually are a favor of some version that exists. i argue for the party once you get beyond midterms, we should try to address the issues with healthcare that we find fault. a lot of voters actually say yeah, we like a lot of the aspect of this and keeping our kids on and preconditions and etcetera, those are the good things. purchasing across state line and more economic issues, we are amendable on those things. republicans have to be careful of the healthcare message going beyond midterms. >> it was the republicans who came up with obamacare in the

first place. >> and going into the senate. >> and he is. >> maybe he'll do something about it. >> shermichael, the president's aproouf approval rating is up 5%, what does it mean that he sees the 5%? >> i think it is a plus for republicans because it does showcase some indications that republicans will turn out voters. i do think there should be some concerns when you look at his approval and how well he has done. that's not transferring for candidates who are running for office. republicans are looking at these numbers and say okay, his a approval ratings are up. i am not necessarily sure those things are transferring to me, what do i need to do as a candidate to get those

republican voters out there including some independence who we have seen men, for example, come back to the republican side after the kavanaugh's hearing. we saw a negative decrease. afterwards you saw those numbers inking backup. that's something that benefits the republicans also. >> last question for you, ken, you spent a lot of time talking on capitol hill and your colleagues, democrats and republicans. >> they're all in. literally, i have never seen someone like lindsey graham or mitch mcconnell essentially saying thank you. >> there is an awkward relationship between the president and some of these lawmakers and they are all in as they're 23 days out and they're fired up. i interview senator jones new

york and she was on the campaign trail. truly she was grateful to go back to iowa the day after justice brett kavanaugh was confirmed to talk to her voters because they felt that she had something to deliver to them. we are living in polarized time. >> all right, we'll come back here. >> up next, jared kushner is under fire fore his cozy relationship with the saudis and "the new york times" reports found that jared kushner has not paid taxes. >> he's that guy in the room, the sad thing about jared is that he does not know how stupid he sounds when he's talking and listening. >> oh, i am learning.

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do you suggested that there could be serious repercussions for saudi arabia if the u.s. determin determine they killed -- >> i will be calling saudi arabia. it is appropriate for me to ask them what's going on. >> probably tonight or tomorrow.

>> that's president trump explaining to phil rucker how he plans to handle relations with saudi arabia going forward. he dismissed the idea of suspending weapon sales for the country in the disappearance of the journalist. the crown prince has been friendly with the president's son-in-law, jared kushner. the new york times is reporting the adviser appears to be paying no income tax from 2009 to 2016. we'll talk about the taxes here in a moment here. shermichael, let me start with you, the closeness of the relationship, jared kushner developing a friendship and more with the working relationship with the 33-year-old crowned prince. >> this is going to raise a lot of questions when you think of finances and the financial issues at kushner's company going through. they were trying to get money from all over the place and they purchased a bill in new york

that costs him hundreds of billions dollars a year. they're going to ask when you look at how slow the president has been to respond to comment on the issue of jamal and in turkey of what's happening to saudi arabia. people are going to wonder was he slow to talk about it. when you look at the taxes, that raises further questions. >> i think this is beyond jared kushner. >> i think truly saudi arabia has played in s gee oopolitical economy that's so involved. the saudis secured $110 billion commitment for the u.s. >> for a 33-year-old who went on this is charm offenses for the world's media, that's a big

deal. this is a country of terrible records of human riepghts. there is questions on that front but gee politically to shermichael's point with turkey, turkey cozied rigiecozied right syria. the saudis have turned the corner because of the shifting landscape. this is incredibly complex and nuance. i think that when you have on capitol hill, republicans like senator graham questioning the president's relationship with the saudis. that's the risk i would argue. >> everyone bn bob corker. >> nikki haley should be stepping stepping down and she talks about the role of jared kushner. let's listen.

>> i can't say enough good thing s with jared ivanka. what i have done working with him on the middle peace plan, it is so unbelievably well done. >> hidden genius. he finds himself at the sescent of a lot of them and we have read going back to the beginning. >> so i think it brings a point of the rule of law and concerns for the rule of law. it is more than that, concerns for rule of corruption and the idea that family and that nepotism is right now is intrinsically what the white house are made up of. wider perceptions of kushner is split into two camps. people call him the hidden

genius and you have omarosa who accused him of being stupider than he appears to be. i think right now there is some thing to what kushner is doing in the white house particularly around issues on geopolitical issues. he has his hands-on that and apparently on issues of bureaucratic reorganization. >> i have not heard a lot on that but currently he's in there. one of these things are figure out what is his role in the white house and larger kind of over arching trump kind of corruption and respectful of law. what side is he on and what role is he playing there? nick, i will brick you into the conversation here. you had this big pieces of the new york times about a week ago. you get a follow up yesterday and detailing a way where he has

not paid federal income taxes. mr. kushner paid all taxes. help us understand what kind of picture this paints. >> we got a mixed picture here. it is a major loophole and it gets him to real estate. >> one that's gotten wider here. >> what really and i think is problematic is the fact that this administration a year ago puts in a new tax bill that's going to get rid of all these loopholes. one that's left behind is the one that jared kushner had been jumping for year after year to take this deduction. you got to ask yourself was there a real conflict of interest to you and the white house keeping that loophole in the new tax bill? >> just to give you a little bit history here, this is exactly what richard nixon tried to do when congress in 1969 passed the

tax reform act. he tried to keep the provision that would allow him to continue to take deductions on gifts of papers to the united states. it would not surprise me if we find president trump and jared kushner lobbied and trying to keep that provision in the tax bill. >> have we seen that? indications of that? >> there is a ton of lobbyists on the financial world. i don't think this issue matters at all. >> democrats are going to hate the tax bill no matter what and republicans are going to love it no matter what. this is a guy who campaigned i am not going to release my taxes. i took it so much that i want you to have the same benefits that i have. >> he purposely kept that in for his own personal benefit. to me, that's a direct conflict

of interests. it is not about whether people want to have a tax bill or certain types of supervision in there. if the person of the united states and the son-in-law who are benefiting big time the fact they are not paying any taxes, i find it rep prehensible. for the fact of the statue of limitations have passed on most of those items. >> it does not look good. >> if you are placing blame, the blame should not be on congress. they ultimately write the bill at the end of the day. >> donald trump and jared kushner are not the only two in real estate. they'll benefit on this and so many from new york. >> i don't know how you can blame that blame logically on the president and jared kushner.

>> you can push back to help nick out a little bit here. part of president trump's c campaigning and continuing, i am going to drain the swamp and get rid of the loopholes that benefited people like me. he exquisitely said that on the campaign trail and now it is coming out. i don't think this is necessarily a huge thing. i don't think anyone is surprised by the fact that jared kushner took advantage of tax loopholes to the extend of millions of dollars. that's what they do. it reenforces the idea that this is what they do and how it works and how those system works. >> the president can also say who would not something like this? >> who wants to pay taxes? >> the progressive earlier this

week who was appointed by president trump in the democratic seat. did you know in our regulations, the word insider trader has not mentioned once in all of this? >> that to your point is going to be an issue that we'll hear from senator elizabeth warren on. >> did president advocate for the family separation policy at the u.s. mexico border. a new clues to robert mueller's end game. what we can learn from the president. >> saturday night live on the oval office between the president and rapper con yes weswkanye west. >> kanye west prepared by learning every fact in the world backward and trump prepares by dleering h clearing his desk by any thing that's valuable.

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welcome back to "up," i am david gura. president trump was considering a new family separation effort at the u.s. mexico border.

the bureau chief asked the president about that article yesterday on the south lawn. listen to what he had to say about that separation policy? >> now everybody wants to come in and they come in legally and using children. they grab them and they want to come in with the children. we are looking at a lot of different things having to do with illegal immigration. if they feel separation in many cases, they don't come. >> in many cases, you have bad cases where they use the children. they grab the children and they use them to come into our country. you had some really bad people out there. >> now, that right there is a big rehearsal. in the past president trump was blamed on separation policies on the democrats and he calls it a

terrible situation. >> i hate the children are being taken away. the democrats have to change that law. >> your policy, democrats. >> that's the democrats law. i did not like the sagt and tig being separated from my family. >> i hate to see separation of parents and children. >> in august, the country saw a 38% increase of the number of arrested and charged. the paper cite the officials of homeland security. >> many continued to em grace president trump, what they see and what they're willingly not able to see when we come back.

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i got to ask at you, hold out your holy spirit on president trump that you give him super natural wisdom to accomplish all the plans that you have for this country and for him. >> part of another surreal moment yesterday is pastor brunson knelt down and praise president trump. >> this is what the president said. >> can i ask you one question? >> who did you vote for? >> i knew the answer. >> the president still seem to

maintain respect and loyalty of many evangelical leaders everyone thoueven he does not share many of their values. i want to play a sound mbyte here. >> donald trump's living the life of helping others. >> reporter: this morning, another lawsuit. >> he's not a poll liish politi. >> he has been raised up by god. >> president trump ill norring questions calling african nation-s-natio nations s-holes. >> maxine water is as very low iq individual. >> americans can only be great if america is good. we know we have a president that

wants to make america good. >> do you feel betray by omarosa, sir? >> low-life. she's as low-life. >> there is the explicit release. i am going to turn to you, leigh. how is this continuing to support him. why does he still have support of so many members of the evangelical members. >> at the end of the day, donald trump gets it done for. for a lot of advantage vaevange is about the law and agenda that the community has had. trump for all his dissonance with values has been pushing those agenda items forward. >> there was a stud they came out in 2016 that shows evangelicals of their believes, should you support only candidates whose values reflected your own have shifted

and entirely has flipped. 90% of evangelicals said, no, they should not share my values. what matters is do i support this candidate because they're going to get my agenda in place. we are seeing that kind of naked abandon that we have not seen befor before. evangelicals are being honest about it. >> two words, justice brett kavanaugh. i disagree with this whole panel but the narrative -- any political party has a monopoly on religion. if you look at the polling and concerns of environmental concerns, if you look at gay marriage and marriage equalities and catholic overwhelmingly supports gay marriage. and the second amendment rights, there is evangelical support for

common sense gun reform. broadly speaking, the leadership of the traditional evangelical community has clearly backed this president because o f the initial policy and the messaging he has done on things like not allowing transgenders to serve in the military. >> i want to play a mini sound yesterday, richard burn, this pastor is from black mountain in north carolina. let's take a look at what richard had to say. >> we welcome the ambassador back to north carolina. he has been missed but his work in turkey like anywhere else in the world to spread the word of jesus christ, it is usual and foundational thing about this country of the united states, that's why we love it so much. >> nick, i want to ask you about that. we have a rich tradition of

separation church and state. it is spreading the word of jesus christ is a foundational thing. >> your reaction to it? >> this pastor have gone from the united states for 22 years. it is not he's still of residence of north carolina. >> this is being done for political purposes. >> trump does not care about the separations of churches and states. he would not know how to describe it if you ask him to describe it. there is no question about it. look at what he's done -- he wa embassy and did not come out and likely murdered. >> his reaction is the same that he had of the whole russian con spir -- conspiracy.

he's going to call up the king and say what's going on and he's going to do the same thing with vladimir putin. oh, he assured me that there is no problem. donald trump has a distorted values that are not american values and does not take into account what our precips on human brieprights and the polict had adopted since world war ii. >> shermichael, justice kavanaugh, why does it seem like so plastic and members of the community can act in those ways when their values should be front and center. >> a lot of evangelicals and i worked for ben carson when he ran for president. >> i covered i. >> sew you. for a lot of evangelicals they believe they candace agree with

trump and still sort of be family. for a lot of them when you think of what it means to be as christian and how they personally would perceive that as an american tradition. they do believe that as a country has sort of turn more left that they become more isolated and more marginalized. though republicans in the past have sort of promise we'll defend your christian rights and etcetera, when you look at trump, they can articulate, yeah, he's not a representative of our moral believes, however, he does defend what we hold true of our tradition and norms. >> all right, let's come back to you in just a moment. the president's team is preparing written responses to mueller's questions. there are some clues in that question of what robert mueller's end game may be.

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and never will be. >> welcome back to "up," president trump on the report of his legal team preparing written questions to support special counsel of robert mueller and his

. are you preparing written? >> i don't talk about that. i'll say this so everybody knows, no collusion.

there never was, never will be. >> president trump on reports his legal team is preparing written answers to question from special counsel robert mueller and his team. sources saying those questions were tain to whether trump culieu colluded with russia in 2016. he makes the argument that the odds of robert mueller charging president trump with obstruction has become less and less likely. i want to bring everybody back in and bring in nick acerman in particular because you get a shout out with these. he says none of the allegations raised over obstruction fit in raised over obstruction fit in the underlying crime to which that obstruction is -- i don't think mueller would charge it unless he can prove the conspiracy with the russian government to interfere with our election by, one, just taking those two indictments that came down on the russian side, one has to do with social media, the other has to do with the break in to the democratic national committee. if you look at the scope of that conspiracy, it's not just to break in and steal the records, but it's also the staging and the release of those records. what i think you're going to see is a mirror image of both of those indictments with the individuals on the american side being indicted for those precise same crimes. mueller has set the ground work for them. and you've got three critical witnesses, four witnesses actually who can give you a lot of detail on all of these

matters. it's not collusion. you've got four witnesses. you've got manafort, his deputy rick gates, who's also able to corroborate a lot of that. you've got flynn who is dealing with the russian ambassador after the campaign about sanctions, which is likely the quid pro quo for the help in the election by the russians. and then you've got his lawyer, michael cohen. and if you look at what christopher steele wrote, you can almost substitute stormy daniels for things he was doing with the russians, trying to keep the russians quiet, trying to bee off people so none of this would come out during the course of the campaign. but the major part of this is going to be conspiracy. conspiracy on the break in and conspiracy using social media to

impress the clinton vote. >> a tough act to follow. >> so the earlier part has do with the fact we don't really know what's going on. we really have only one look of what's going on. >> and this is truly the october surprise or the november surprise or december, who knows. who knows when this report is going to come out. but it really is going to be remarkable to see how this factors into the mid-terms, how this effects each of the bases. i think from a legal standpoint, i think every legal expert would agree it is the conspiracy that is much more likely to be the type of charge rather than collusion, which again is this word that's been concocted -- >> you put it in together. you wouldn't charge obstruction of justice. >> but also obstruction of

justice is -- if you look at what happened in the watergate situation, most of the people there were convicted on obstruction of justice. but what you have there is absolute evidence the nixon campaign was involved in the break in to the committee. whether as a defense lawyer or a prosecutor you normally -- you always have the underlying crime because it shows consciousness of guilt, motive. and i don't believe mueller would ever bring a case here just on obstruction. >> and very quickly just the last point i would raise is now you have a unified republican party, which is something this president did not have, is that mitch mcconnell is now in lock step with this white house. >> so mueller releases a report, he reveals some things i think a great deal of the portion already believes about the president and those around him

alleged behavior. the left, they're already going do have their preconceived opinions about the president's guilt before. and the republicans are going to argue this is political charade done by democrats to bring down donald trump. >> two indictments -- >> but now of the president. >> look at what they did with the russians. they have donald trump in one of those recordings actually -- >> we're talking about the president being indicted directly. that's a whole separate issue. >> if and when it happens, we'll come back. my thanks. up next we're going to follow the money trail back to saudi arabia. how the trump white house may be giving comedy writers a run for the money. and the president going on an all out media blitz making this admission about his reportedly chaotic white house along the way. >> i have people now on standby

that will be phenomenal that come into the administration. >> more people are going to go? >> yes, more people to go. i have some people i'm not thrilled with. i mean at some point --. not thrilled with. i mean at some point --.

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