...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. that does it for me. it is time for a.m. joy with adam veli today. he is guest hosting. >> i ask that you pour out your holy spirit on president trump, that you give him super natural wisdom to accomplish all the plans you have for this country and for him. >> the spirit of wisdom and understanding and council and might, knowledge and fear from worry. amen. >> thank you very much. can i ask you one question? who did you vote for?

i knew the answer. i knew the answer. >> i would like to say i sent in an absentee ballot from prison. >> good morning. welcome to a.m. joy. i'm in for joy reed. after spending two years in a turkish president, they prayed for donald trump in the oval office and the president responded by asking the really important questions. trump was eager to take credit for his release last night. even though he says no deal was made with turkey. >> he is now free from jail. think of that. 35-year jail sentence. 35 years. not anymore. he's back with his family. together with his wife. and he is on american soil. and i want to thank president

erdigon. he was terrific. meanwhile, jamal khashoggi walked into a consulate and never walked out. trump is vowing punishment if khashoggi was killed by the saudis. >> especially so because this man was a reporter. there is something -- you will be surprised to hear me say that. there is something really terrible and disgusting about that, if that were the case. we're going to have to see. we are going to get to the bottom of it, and there will be severe punishment. >> joining me now my panel. amy, good to see you. let me start with you. the president expressing concern that jamal khashoggi is a reporter. he's a columnist, really, and a

critic of the saudi government. that stands in contrast with a message that the president has frequently sent to the american people and his supporters, that the media are the enemy of the people. how do you square those two? >> i think you can't compare the two. you are talking about the alleged murder of somebody. i don't think that we know for sure that that's what happened, has happened, but that's what everybody believes has happened. and you are talking about him just talking about the press is the enemy of the people. what he's talking about is all the inaccurate and false news that's reporting. when you are talking about the murder of somebody, versus the reporting done by the press, i don't think you can compare the two. if indeed this journalist was murdered, even if he weren't adoa journalist, the fact that he went into a consulate and was murdered in the way suspected, it would be a concern by everyone around the world. >> right. so i would say to you this.

you say the president's attack on journalists is because of inaccurate and fake news reported. that's the same excuse the turks use, the chinese and the saudis use, right? their issue is these people who we think of as journalists are reporting inaccurate and fake news about journalists. you can see the connection i'm making, right? >> i don't think they are the same thing. he's talked about the fake news being reported. he's talking about the inaccurate news being reported. and the american people are aware of it. that's why the ratings for the media are so in the tank. but you are talking about a government actually murdering somebody. you cannot compare the two. the president has never indicated in any way anything of this sort to any journalist anywhere. and you are trying to compare that to what the saudis have done. i'm sorry, but i'm not buying it and the american people aren't buying it. everybody should be outraged about this. it is about a human being. >> yeah.

i mean, we have talked for a long time. i'm not sure why the comparison is so difficult. the president has called the media the enemy of the people. what is your sense of how donald trump should be handling this? there was some delay in the president coming out and talking about this. now he seems to be taking a more expected and stronger position against saudi arabia, if this turns out to be true. >> i agree with you very strongly that there is a district link between the president's rhetoric and what's happening around the world, the enemy of the people, the same sort of language that was used during the mccarthy era here, but also during the stalin era. murders of journalists around the world are up 50% this year, and we still have a few months to go in this year. attacks on journalists, kidnappings, threats.

it is an entirely different atmosphere. now, i don't know what the president intends in his mind. but what he has had the effect of doing is giving a green light to people who are attacking journalists around the country, whether that's in the philippines, whether that's talking about saudi arabia and even crackdowns on journalists in turkey itself. there is a very clear -- we don't know what the president's intent is, but his words are being used to kill and to imprison journalists around the world. >> jill wine banks, you were actually a prosecutor back in the days of watergate, where this sort of language was around, the idea that the united states should have been safe from these attacks by presidents, by leaders, by dictators on journalists that cover things they don't like. but even in watergate, we saw a hot of th lot of that coming out.

it does lay the ground work for people who decide that journalists go too far in their criticisms of power. >> you are completely correct. i am certainly with you and dana, and i do not understand any hesitation on amy's part to adopt that viewpoint. the threats to the press have been direct and very serious from donald trump, and that is a very scarey thing. and yet viewer ship of msnbc has skyrocketed because people are hungry for the truth and the news, and that's what we need to get. and that's not what's happening where a journalist, a columnist is possibly murdered. supposedly the turks have real evidence of this. i'm anxious to see the proof of what's happened to him. but there is certainly nothing that would suggest that he ever left the embassy on his own free will.

so it's a very serious matter and definitely donald trump has promoted the kind of attack that this is, and it seems to be -- >> that's not true! that's not true. first of all, let's say that the president has said the fake news is the enemy of the people, not the press is an enemy of the people. >> oh, come on. >> fake news. and when dana said that his words are being used to promote this kind of behavior around the world, killing journalists, that is absurd. and i take offense to that and every american should. donald trump has never advocated for any journalist to be harmed or murdered. >> wait a minute. >> amy -- >> i would point tod katie's book. >> he referred to a reporter being hit by a train, if i recall. >> excuse me? >> he posted a tweet of a cnn reporter being attacked by a train. >> and a similar thing in a wrestling match. >> no, no. he's posting memes.

people post those all the time. that doesn't mean he's going out advocating for the murder of journalists. that's absurd. >> let me ask you this, malcolm. there is a secondary problem here. that is while the president of the united states or americans can go around the world criticizing human rights abuses and oppressed freedom abuses, this becomes a trickier problem with saudi arabia, with whom this administration is uniquely cozy. administrations for the last couple decades have been cozy with them. >> well, we generally don't. that's because we, sort of, turned a blind eye on how they are behaving internally. saudi arabia has always been kind of strict about what kind of press they get. they have always criticized people who have criticized them. and that goes for the same

throughout the whole arab world, except in syria, attack at the time, libya at the time when they were murdering journalists. that was par for the course and every president of the united states kept a lid on that, but they spoke up about it. that's what's uniquely different here. donald trump is not like every other president of the united states. he is very, very clearly seen as on their side. he said he does not care about what their internal policies are and does not care about human rights so how long as it doesn't bother us. now we have the possible murder of a washington post columnist who is a u.s. resident. and i worked a lot of missions of americans who had been kidnapped or murdered over seas. when it comes from the president of the united states, action happens. what is not happening here is this president does not seem to care. and when he says he cares and

didn't know about it, the intelligence doesn't indicate that. the president is always notified instantly within five minutes of when a critical incident happens to a u.s. citizen at the u.s. intelligence finds about it. his past rhetoric -- by the way, in contradiction to amy, he did threaten journalists. i recall the day he told an entire audience that disgusting katie terr, the msnbc correspondent following him on the campaign trail, she had to be escorted by secret service out of the building. this rhetoric has unleashed approval across the world to go after journalists and may actually be -- we don't know what the details are yet, but may have been consequential in the death of khashoggi. >> so we do have to fix this problem, whatever it is. whatever the length you disagree with that i'm making, we do all

of us, liberals and conservatives, republicans and democrats share the view that the press exists to bear witness and to hold power to account and shou should not be attacked by our leaders. >> but the press is doing something wrong if you are reporting fake news or inaccurate news. you should be called out. i don't know why that people don't understand that or why they have a problem with it. it should be called out. and i do agree with you that we have had many administrations ignored things that have gone on with the saudis. i heard the president yesterday in the evaloffice talking about that this situation will be dealt with. they want it to be verified, and they're going to deal with it. whether it is through united nations. as senator lankford said from oklahoma, there is a list of ways we can retaliate, and there will be retaliation for this. so the comment just made that the president is ignoring this, that is not accurate.

>> well, he did take quite a bit of time before he said anything about it. and then he said, look, we're not going to stop selling weapons from saudi arabia because they will buy it from the chinese and russians. we know they are doing a lot of business with the trumps. we know at trump tower. we know in the trump hotel in washington. >> and -- >> he has indicated what many people think, that americans get rich off saudis and saudis get rich off americans and hence maybe they don't get the treatment they should because of what has been alleged. >> but the thing about it is it's not going to be just the president that deals with this. there were many senators and congress involved in it, too. we have to put it in their hands and let them deal with it. >> thankfully, we've got the ghoe ball magnitsky act, which in 2016 was expanded to force the president's hand in terms of sanctions if there are human rights abuses in countries the

united states does business with. he has 120 days to do something about this. >> thank heavens for this. i disagree with amy. i think it is the president's responsibility, as the representative of american values, to speak out immediately when an american resident, who is a journalist, is possibly killed, certainly has disappeared. we need to be on top of that. we need to speak out against that. and anybody who has stood at the back of any rally as a journalist and had the president point the finger at them and have the audience turn against them and hiss and do other things knows the terror that the journalists are in because of how the president has behaved. all you have to do is read katie's book at her time on the campaign trail, and you will know that this is a serious

threat to democracy because without a free press we cannot have a democracy. >> dana, we have history in this country and other countries had media that is biassed, unfair and inaccurate. i think this president goes further with that. i appreciate the distinction that amy is trying to make being fake news being bad and news and journalism as something to be respected. but that is not a distinction this president makes clear. >> no. and i think that we need to be very clear that the president is perfectly within his rights to say when he thinks the press has gotten something wrong. he is often wrong in making that criticism, but he's free to do that. it's when he says the press are disgusting, horrible, the worst people on earth, the most dishonest people on earth, the enemy of the people. that's a different category, and that's why i get death threats. no doubt that you do and most of

our colleagues do. >> yep. >> this is a fundamentally different environment. the president may not like what the press is saying. but he has declared it open season on the press. now, in this country, thank god, people are for the most part not killing journalists, but in autocratic regimes around the country, they are taking this as an absolute green light to go after the press. and there is not in marylaoderns been a more dangerous time to be a reporter around the world. >> i want to piggy back on what was just said. what about what the media has done and the democrats have done for trump supporters? there has never been a more dangerous time to be a trump supporter in america. never should i have to listen to my voice mail and hear a deranged person calling me leaving messages about

defecating on my grave. we need more civility in this country. >> we agree with that. i am sorry you have had those phone calls and those threats. that is not something that is representative of the america that all five of us want to see. thank you for joining me amy, jill, malcolm and dana. up next, more highlights and low lights from donald trump's night in the blue grass state. your brain naturally begins to change which may cause trouble with recall. - learning from him is great... when i can keep up! - anncr: thankfully, prevagen helps your brain and improves memory. - dad's got all the answers. - anncr: prevagen is now the number-one-selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. - she outsmarts me every single time. - checkmate! you wanna play again? - anncr: prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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and one day it was looking really bad and lincoln just said, you hardly knew his name, and they said, don't take him. he's got a drinking problem. and lincoln said, i don't care what problem he has. you guys aren't winning. and his name was grant, general grant. he started to win. grant really did. he had a serious problem, a serious drinking problem. but, man, was he a good general. and he's finally being recognized as a great general. but lincoln had almost developed a phobia because he was having a hard time with a true great fighter and a great general robert e. lee, but grant figured it out. >> all right. donald trump just responded to that via twitter this morning saying nbc news as totally

changed my point. it was actually a shout out to the warrior grant and the great state in which he was born. as usual, dishonest reporting. even mainstream media embarrassed. joining me now is president of the bernard center for women, politics and public policy. dana and amy are back with me. >> amy, i want to have a continuation of the conversation we had in the last hour where you draw the distinctions about what the president has said about the media and america and what saudi arabia has allegedly done to jamal khashoggi. part of the problem is the degree to which violence is making it into our political discourse. let's listen to what trump said -- had to say about democrats and what will happen if they win. >> he stared down -- tough

cook cookie. he's kentucky tough. he stared down the angry left wing mob. he never blinked, and he never looked back. and he got us a man who will be one of our great, great supreme court justices. >> so, amy, the he he is talking about is mitch mcconnell, obviously of kentucky. but this mob, gangs, this language that's coming up, it showed up in the last couple of weeks aggressively in the president's rallies and other rallies by republicans. what do you make of that? >> i think that the left, there are mobs going on out there right now. look at what happened to senator ted cruz and his wife. a mob running them out of a restaurant. maxine waters telling people if you run across these republican senators or congress, to harass them. get in their faces at gas

stations. and people are doing that. look, we had a congressman -- an attempted assassination of a congressman on a baseball field, and that shooter had a list in his pocket of other republicans that he was going to go after. it is a scarey time right now. sara sanders has been run out of restaurants. there is a list of things going on. now you have witches placing a hex on brett kavanaugh. you have the republican party in new york city being vandalized. so it is concerning. this type of behavior is going on, and it is concerning to all americans out there. as i said to you in the last segment, i have been a victim of these attacks as well. it is not anything that any of us should have to live with. >> as is dana and katie, as have i. do you think that the president suggests that democrats are angry left wing mobs who will take power if elected in

november, does that sort of political discourse we should be having coming from the president of the united states? >> i think when eric holder says when they go low we kick them and when hillary clinton says that we will return to civility after we take back the house, i think that is not the type of civility and discourse that we need in the united states. and i think that the president would back me up on that. >> all right. michelle, let's just play the pennsylvania governor candidate scott wagner, and what he said about his opponent. let's listen. >> the democrats have become totally consumed by their chilling lust for power. they will destroy your second amendment. and the democrats want to open our borders to a flood of deadly drugs and ruthless gangs. >> all right. let me play what the governor of

pennsylvania said, the republican candidate. >> between now and november 6th, you better put a catcher's mask on your face because i'm going to stomp all over your face with golf spikes because i'm going to win this for the state of pennsylvania and we're throwing you out of office because you know what? i'm sick and tired of your negative ads. >> i will say there is some irony on that, michelle. you better put a catcher's mask on your face because i'm going to stomp all over your face with golf spikes. >> the rich man's weapon, i guess, are golf spikes. absolutely. it is so unbelievable that we are hearing the rhetoric that we are hearing from the president and from others in the republican party. you know, crime. the party of crime, the party of illegal immigrants, mobsters. when we know that it is absolutely untrue. you know, we just heard a moment

ago about how scarey a time it is to be a republican. let me tell you how scarey a time it is to be a person of color, to be a parent who has a black child. talk about the black boys, the black men, the black women who have been killed endlessly at the hands of police violence and we don't hear anyone in the republican party talking about it. the president did not refer to the people carrying tiki torches in charlottesville as mobsters. all of this is stoking the absolute worst in america. it is not the democratic party that have become mobsters. it is many people on the republican party and they are being stoked this way because of the rhetoric of president trump. >> let's take a look, dana at generic congressional poll right now from real clear politics that indicates 48.6% would support a generic democrat. 41% a generic republican.

obviously the way this breaks down district to district makes a great difference. but it does indicate a strong possibility of the democrats taking the house in november. how do you think this rhetoric plays into this? is it helping or motivating republicans to get out there and say, wow, this mob might take over and bad things might happen? >> clearly the calculation by republicans is this is the way to do it. it has not prevailed for them to talk about the tax cut or to talk about health care. there was an episode when they tried individual attacks on democrats running in the most competitive house races, talking about personal things. that didn't seem to gain traction here. this is the closing argument. that is fear. and it ties in well with the whole brett kavanaugh debate. it is basically telling the trump supporters, the people that came out for trump in 2016, you, my supporters, need to be

afraid of women of racial and religious minorities. fear works. it worked for trump in 2016. i am not going to sit here and say it is not going to work and turn things around for him again. these are really grim times in america. and everybody, as we have been detailing here, is feeling besieged. and it is very unfortunate that the man with the bully pulpit has decided the way to prevail at the ballot box next month is to divide us and infuriate americans and frighten americans still further. >> amy, an abc poll on the midterms. it indicates 33% of people are more likely to support the democrats because of the brett kavanaugh nomination. 37% more likely. 39% say no difference. but right in the days of the brett kavanaugh debate, the president brought into the debate this issue of young men

should be very afraid in america. this idea of false accusation and how that's going to come back to bite them. there have got to be republican women that are frustrated with that. the victimization of men by false accusation is a very, very small problem in america. >> i'll comment on that. but first i want to go back to what scott wagner said because i do belief when we are wrong, we should be called out. and what he said about the umpire's mask and the golf cleats, that is unacceptable and he should apologize for that. that shouldn't be acceptable on either side of the aisle. in terms of the brett kavanaugh thing and the me too movement, i personally think it is a scarey time because we are at a point -- and it is not just about brett kavanaugh, it is about our society in general. we are at the point where a women can go and make an accusation about a man at any time and it can possibly ruin

his life, his career. he can lose his job. and i think that that is wrong. >> but the statistics of false accusations -- >> this is about due process. >> amy, can you cite one example of this actually happening? >> excuse me? >> can you cite one example of this actually happening? >> i mean, it's happened before. >> can i jump in? let me just say i want to give you an example that i think is important. >> hang on one second. >> in the last few days, there was a white woman who accused a little boy, a black boy, of accosting her in a shopping market. just like emmitt till. there was videotape this time and thank god nothing happened to that kid. he was a child. nobody is speaking out about that on the right because he was a black child. yes, there are people who lie. but when we talk about due process, we also have to talk about the due process and the rights of women. women are not to be assumed to

be liars because there are a few who do lie. what was done to dr. blasey ford was absolutely horrible. and to turn brett kavanaugh into a victim as opposed to taking what she said as the truth, and at least to look at it as being credible was absolutely wrong. >> why should woman -- why is there no due process? >> let me just ask you this. you don't think the issue of men being blamed for things they didn't do is more serious than women who are sexually harassed and assaulted and don't come forward with it, do you? >> any time anybody is accused of something, they deserve due process. it doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. let's not pretend that sexual assault, sexual harassment only happens to women. it happens the other way, too, where men are sexually assaulted and harassed. >> not nearly as much, right? you don't have evidence that

indicates that. >> any time anybody is accused of a crime like that, they have the right to due process. the evidence needs to be put forward. what was done to brett kavanaugh was horrific and his family. and the american people decided if they want to believe it or not. does it matter what i believe or what you believe? no. >> that was actually the first question i asked you, is that do you worry there are some republican women that will take this message and say, look, i might be conservative, i might have conservative views on abortion and the second amendment, but i do believe that women get sexually assaulted by men and should be heard and might turn away from a president, a party that doesn't want to listen to that. >> i mean, it's always a possibility. it always is. but i was sexually assaulted in high school, too. i didn't do anything about it then. i'm not going to do anything about it now. i'm not trying to make this

about me. but the person that did it to me, he would have a right to due process. i am a firm believer in due process, regardless if you are male or female. >> can i just say it is important to point out when a man -- >> hang on a second. i want to say. amy, you and i talked for a long time. i had not heard that you had been sexually assaulted, and i am very sad to hear that. >> it's okay. >> it is up to you to what you want to do about it. but this is not partisan and my sympathies are with you for that. >> i'm not saying it for that reason. any time an allegation is made against somebody, whether they are a man or a woman, they have a right to due process, and i firmly believe in that. it doesn't matter what your party affiliation is there. >> i completely agree. but when a man comes forward after being assaulted 35 years later, he's called kour rag g e. when a woman does it, they don't

believe her. >> thank you to all of you, michelle, dana and amy. we'll see you in the next hour. up next, the latest on hurricane michael recovery. rricy ♪ rricy not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. energy lives here.

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compared to other storms that florida has faced, how does this compare? >> i don't think there is anything like this. we had irma last year, and it just wasn't this devastation. you didn't have -- you didn't have houses that were taken from

right over there, clear over there, i was down there right afterwards, and i couldn't think of one. >> with its far-reaching coastline, florida is one of the states at greatest risks for storm surges. but the state's governor, rick scott, refuses to believe in climate change, going as far as to institute an unwritten policy banning his government, including the department of environmental protection from using the words global warming or climate change. joining me now is paul douglas and marianna. where are you now? because that looks like a badly damaged space that you are in. >> reporter: good morning to you. this is one of the smaller cities in the panhandle. 20,000 people. we're about 30 minutes from

panama city beach. last night i drove up from mexico beach, which is obviously ground zero, all the way to panama city and everything just looks flattened because this was a wind event. the flood events like the harveys or the hurricane florences. this you have toppled power lines and trees, driving all the way up the panhandle making it dangerous. look at the chamber of commerce and the city hall, the police department for this small city. it totally crumbled. i spoke to the mayor. he road the storm in here with 25 other people, including children. she tells me 85% to 95% of the homes here are totally damaged. she says people, you know, right now don't even have time to think about the politics. they need help, and they need it fast. >> paul douglas, let's talk about this.

the un released a report last night saying we have 12 years left to make drastic changes to prevent drought, flood and extreme poverty for hundreds and millions of people. the report was published at the paris climate talk. what is your take on how we should be thinking about these extreme weather events and how we should be discussing it? >> we have gone from theory to reality. we have had four category four or stronger hurricane strikes in the united states in the last fourteen months. 93% of the chemical blanket of additional warning, 93% of that is going into the world's oceans. it is not out of sight, out of mind. so when a hurricane does spin up naturally, and i should point out, we have had hurricanes

since the beginning of time. >> yep. >> but now they're super sized. it's the old weather on steroids thing. i'm a skeptic. it is good to be skeptical in the day and age of hackers and malware. but you connect the dots and it is getting harder to dismiss and deny the fact that something has changed. >> what do we know, paul, scientifically? we know the temperature of water is rising. we know the difference in the temperature between the water and the upper atmosphere is changing. and we know -- we know that sea levels are rising. so things like surges might be a few inches higher than it was a few decades ago. so the point is maybe soon we'll be able to have the conclusive evidence that skeptics and

deniers need to prove this. what do you get for being on the wrong side of this occasion and not allowing climate change to be discussed or global warming and not doing the things necessary to prepare for it properly? >> i think all of us have a responsibility. i mean, i assume that governor scott is a person of faith. in the bible mark 12:31, love your neighbor as yourself. what you did not do for the least of these you did not do for me. we have an obligation to care for your neighbors, and our neighbors increasingly are facing a rising tide of rising tides and super sized storms and biblical floods. this is not theory. this is reality. people like to say, well, it is climate models and the models are wrong. this is putting a thermometer in the water and measuring the temperature of the water. this is measuring rising seas.

there are very few skeptics. i have a son in the navy. very few skeptics at the pentagon. they see what's happening. they see the threat. we need to keep our eyes wide open and not have a conservative litmus test or a purity test but go off data and do whatever we can to help our neighbors and everything we do has to be focussed on resilience. there is going to be an organized retreat away from parts of the coastline, and we need to be prepared for that future. we need to keep our eyes wide open. >> this is an important point. what did you did not do for the least of us. it is the least of us who are hurt the most, right, who live in the lowest-lying areas, the areas or the places where they don't have flood insurance, even though they are on a floodplain. resilience exists in places where you can afford resilience, where you have built your docks a certain way and your ports a

certain way. you live in miami where on a bright, sunny day in july there will be water coming through the storm drains because of rising water levels. >> that's exactly right. it is a mixed bag on the ground of hope but also of helplessness. like i said before, there is a line of people behind this building that goes around the block who have lost their homes, who haven't eaten in days. i have heard them sending text messages and making calls to their loved ones saying, i am alive. and on the ground in mexico beach, as we have toured with florida governor rick scott, he was making a survey of the damage for the first time, comforting a few residents starting to emerge, cheering on the rescue workers. but how he handles this response is very much going to be top of mind as people head into the ballot box on november 6th. florida will be watching now he handles this response. the same for andrew gillum.

they have both been accessible and visible to the media. how much impact will have storm have as people go into the ballot box and climate change has? it remains to be seen. but i think the take-away is people will judge this recovery. and recovery. there's a lot of talk here also about hurricane maria. this is florida, after all. they know that puerto rico was forgotten after a while and they don't want that to happen here, ali? >> paul, let me ask you this. when we predict these storms coming in but we've gotten much better through science at predicting them more accurately. people say, you know, you guys in the media say it's going to be disaster and it's not. i respond, if it isn't, nobody loses. if it is, at least you were prepared. why don't we approach climate change the same way by saying, if we're wrong about the fact that the climate is changing and it's going to increase our droughts and our extreme weather, okay, nobody loses.

if we don't warn about it, we don't discuss it, lots of people lose. what's the incentive to not discuss it? >> i think i'm reminded of a famous quote from upton sinclair back in 1935, ali. it's difficult to get a man to believe something when his salary depends on him not believing, but here's the thing. i mean, you can only sustain that for so long. i respond to evidence, facts, data and then let's debate policy, let's not debate the science. i'm a christian. i'm a business owner, ali. if i ignore data that makes me uncomfortable, i go out of business. so we have to keep our eyes wide open, see the world as it is, not necessarily how we wish it would be. >> yeah. yeah. we wish this isn't happening but it may actually be happening. >> it is happening. >> towns at least add to the science that maybe this is getting more serious. thank you to both of you.

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they come from socialist countries. frankly, they come from canada because they want to use our doctors. they come from all over the world, and we're making it now better. >> okay. that's not really a thing, canadians coming to the united states to use doctors. let me give you a description of how it works in canada. your health care is entirely paid for start to finish. if you go for a procedure at a hospital, you will pay probably for your parking and if you'd like a coffee at the starbucks. there are a lot of canadians who winter in the united states, they're called snow birds, right? they escape the brutal canadian winters by summering in florida, texas, arizona, maybe california because they're retirees they may have to consult a doctor. those people will use a doctor in the united states or a clinic. there are also a lot of canadians who live in border towns across from places like

seattle or detroit or, you know, places like that where it becomes easy to get routine tests that are harder to get in canada like mris or x-rays. there are clinics if you go to u.s. border towns like buffalo that cater to canadians who want to get basic tests done. that's not anything other than geography and convenience. there are canadians who have crossed the line to buy gasoline because it's cheaper or to get their groceries. let's discuss spending on health care in america compared to other countries. america spends $9,237 per capita on health care giving you a life expectancy of 79 years. in the united kingdom it's 1/3 with a life expectancy and in canada it's less than half of what we spend in the united states with a higher life expectancy. it's not actually a thing that canadians come to the united states to seek medical treatment.

we'll have more "am joy" after the break. is hotel. or any accommodation, from homes to yurts. booking.com booking.yeah

we'll be talking on the plane. i actually have a good relationship other than there's been no collusion, folks. no collusion. >> they've become frankly too dangerous to govern. they've gone whacko. >> is there a message for those affected? >> i say god bless you all, that's my message, because that's what it is. that storm is there.

that storm is there. >> i heard your attorney general doesn't want prison reform. jeff sessions is standing in your way. is that inaccurate? >> well, if he doesn't, he gets overruled by me because i make the decision, he doesn't. >> so robert e. lee was a great general and abraham lincoln developed a phobia. he couldn't beat robert e. lee. he was going crazy. >> all right. welcome back to "am joy." i'm ali velshi in for joy reid. if this is the first time you're seeing those clips, they're starting to push back on the president's penchant for over saturation. trump is apparently no longer ratings gold on his favorite news network according to a politico analysis. fox news has stopped airing the campaign rallies live after seeing ratings dip below what they get with their normal primetime programming. now for trump ratings are everything and he'll do just about anything to keep his

numbers up so whether it's calling in to fox news twice for long rambling interviews or hosting kanye west in the oval office or stopping to chat with reporters on the south lawn for a good ten minutes on his way to yet another mega rally, donald trump is seeking to make sure that he remains the center of attention. joining me now is eric bullard, senior writer. jo kearns, michelle bernard, president for the bernard center for women, politics and public policy and dana mill babank, columnist. eric, let me start with you. what do you think is happening here? why is donald trump after so long being able to manipulate media into covering his stuff and creating good ratings? what's happening? >> well, i think you mentioned the saturation. i mean, you know, this is a business. it has to be entertaining. you have to have a draw. you mentioned after the political article he calls in to fox news, you know, 11:00 at

night. he calls back the next morning for a 45-minute rambling interview. at the end of the interview the host says, shouldn't you be running the country at this point? it's not good for business, right? he's not providing anything new. he's producing just redundant programming and for fox news, for instance, you know, these are hour-long rallies in primetime. they can't run any ads. you do that once or twice as a favor to trump, that's fine. you do that six or seven times a month, you're going to lose tens of millions of dollars and he's not producing any bump. 's in a very needy mode right now, more than usual, and he's not producing anything entertaining so people are cutting the cord. >> jenn, this is an issue because for a lot of republicans running in the mid term elections, they're less popular in their constituencies than donald trump actually is. so if donald trump, if people are softening on donald trump a little bit, we have polls that indicate that that could be true, that becomes a problem for republicans who would maybe like to run independently as

republicans but haven't been able to do so. >> well, i think in terms of the tv time, i say this as someone who has been a tv producer over at the fox news network so i think i'm a rare person on the panel here, i can tell you that this is less been president trump himself and more about the attention span of americans. we know that just a few years ago the average attention span of a tv viewer was about 3 seconds. that's the amount of time you had to make an impression on someone before they flipped the channel to something else. now that's down to about 1.5 seconds. so i think that's sort of the nature of the beast. i find myself actually agreeing with eric, this might be a first, that it might be actually about ad revenue. he's right. some of these trump rallies run on the better part of 45 minutes to 55 minutes to 1:10 in some cases and they just can't afford to lose that primetime revenue. look, the white house does have a challenge on its hands here so i agree with you. they've got to change things up.

they might need to make the rallies look a little different. they might want to dip in and out of those rallies. that's why you saw president trump this year bringing on bill schein, the former president of the fox channel. if anyone can get to the bottom of it, it will be bill schein. >> michelle, put a poll up from the washington post. washington post/abc poll. 54% disapprove, 41% approve. let's take what jenn said of it as one side of it. the other side of it is it may just be trump? >> absolutely. if you look at his speeches, there is a formula to them whether you are a trump supporter or not. you can pretty much predict what he is going to say at these rallies. you know, democrats are mean. democrats are mobsz. democrats treat brett kavanaugh terribly. there's going to be a shout out to some confederate soldier at one point be in time.

it's always the same thing and that is not a way to bring in new viewers on any network, particularly at the fox network, so that translates into lower ratings and i would venture to guess that from fox's perspective are going to bring in a lot more viewers than people tuning in to watch a trump speech that we see over and over and over again. he's not making any news. at times, ali, it appears that the president's job is not actually acting as the president of the united states but it's garnering as much press coverage as he possibly can. so people are disapproving of the president's work because he's not working, he's giving a shout out to different people on television. >> well, dana, it has been a little hard to keep track of in the last few weeks because he's done so many rallies. when the president comes under pressure or criticism for something that's going on, he tends to go out to his base. >> yeah. i think that's true, and i think

there's another element to what's happening here. i think fox is actually doing the president a bit of a favor here in not having him on because the over exposure of the president actually hurts him and conversely when you see less of him in public, his numbers tend to come up. during the whole kavanaugh brolio, the focus was less on the president, more on the hill, more on brett kavanaugh. as you see from our washington post poll, his numbers are up about five points, not huge, but a significant amount. and i think what you see is the more people see the president saying, you know, one outrage or another, whether it's robert e. lee or whatever else he's doing about khashoggi, it turns the focus and reminds people about what they were concerned about in the first place. >> let me just show you a poll, jenn. this is a party preference for

house races poll. i'm going to ask my control room to put that up. registered voters are preferring democratic control 53 to 42. this is depending where you live. certain constituencies are in tighter races with republicans, and in some cases the one big place that republicans can gain is from women voters? >> well, anecdotally i can tell you that i use my sort of informal focus group of soccer mom friends. the past two weeks over the kavanaugh fight i've gotten the most phone calls i have from that group of swing voter female voters than any issue in the last ten years. i think there will be an impact but not in the way that democrats think. college educated women voters --

>> to be clear suburban white educated swing voters are concerned about the fact that this is a scary time for young men? their sons will be accused of sexual assault incorrectly, is that what you're saying? >> correct. correct. and i also feel that they do care about the rule of law. they do care about folks in their family not being accused of something with zero evidence and being tarred and had a great impact on him. if you look at where they stood today in the 2010 mid terms and the 2014 mid terms, they are doing about the same or worst than they were in both of those contests. in those contests they lost to the largest republican majorities in american history so i wouldn't be too comfortable if i were a democrat today and you also take into account according to nate silver at 538, he says there is a built in four-point bias in favor of any

democrats in any mid term general election ballot. if i'm a democrat -- >> we do know there is evidence of a -- that republicans come out in these mid terms more than democrats do. we hear there's an enthusiasm surge because of women and the people of color running in the mid term elections. what do you make of what jen was saying? >> if you look at the house and senate, you're looking at two different things. in the house, i mean, you just look at virginia, pennsylvania, new york, new jersey, that could be 20 seats right there. we haven't even gotten to california yet. i think the environment for the democrats right now is extremely good and we're seeing republicans dropping, you know, candidates across the country who just don't have it. just don't have a chance of this. and a quick point about the rallies, trump goes to pennsylvania. pennsylvania republican and for

senator and governor, they're losing by 10 and 20 points. he's not moving the needle in pennsylvania. someone mentioned before, this is just ego mania. he wants to hear himself talk. >> it's about the trump re-elect in 2020. we know he has his sights set on pennsylvania pretty firmly. that's why we saw him go to poland and give a landmark speech this year to appeal to the polish in america and canada and pennsylvania. this may be more about the 2020 re-elect for president trump himself. >> michelle? >> i want to go back to the women's vote because i think it's critical that we always talk about the fact that there is a gender gap in elections and that whoever is going to be elected to office, it is typically determined by the women's vote. i am very pessimistic with what we're going to see with the white women's vote whether they're going republican or democratic. i would remind the audience if

it were not for women of color, roy moore would have been elected in alabama despite very credible charges that indicate he had voiced our opinion. the believe that white women vo already gained power to the proximity of white males to their husbands. they've always somehow favored them and it helps them politically. >> i'll just tell you that is offensive. >> i want to finish my statement. i'd like to finish my statement. >> jen, let michelle finish. >> the statement that i am making is i do not see any reason for democrats to believe that after the brett kavanaugh hearings we are going to see a flood of white women, particularly republican red state feminists, come out and vote for democrats.

what is going to happen is in the mid term elections it is going to be because of the vote of black women and other women of color. >> i'm glad to see an admission that there actually can be red state feminists. i've been talking about this ability of conservative women to be feminists. look, if you're thinking the roy moore evidence was credible, they said that the yearbook inscription that gloria allred said was true was false so we can disagree on that point. >> i always want to ask people like you about your daughter, back in their day people would have been happy if a judge paid attention to their young daughter. if it was your daughter that comes into play one day, are you going to change your tune? >> you know what, i don't have to speak to my daughter myself and many women in this industry have been subject and have been victims of the me too movement so i don't have to speak to my daughter, i can speak to my own

personal opinion but, look, i would never go against somebody with a charge from 35 years ago with zero evidence. i can guarantee you, if something happened to me, and it may have, i can tell you the exact day, the exact time and who took me there and who got me home. that's more than we got from dr. ford. >> i think it's a sad day in america and it proves my point. there's no reason to believe that white women are going to vote in a way that does not act against their self-interests. >> look, saying that people -- saying that white women only vote the way their husbands tell them to, that's not going to fly. >> jen, you and michelle have come to the same conclusion that folks that think that white women in suburbs are going to swing their vote away from republicans as a result of the kavanaugh hearing, i think you're both in agreement, that's probably not going to happen. >> thank you for joining me, jen, michelle, stick around. trump loves to take credit for the stock market when it's winning. we'll show you who he's blaming

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the stock market is hitting one all-time record after another boosting your 401ks and retirement accounts for everyday americans. >> another wild day on wall street. at 500 points roughly down this dow is down by more than 1400 points over the last two days. >> all right. when the stock market is up donald trump never hess tats to take credit. this past week and a half when

the dow dropped more than 1400 points in a couple of days he just as quickly points blame somewhere else. in this case the federal reserve. >> i think the fed is making a mistake. they're so tight. i think the fed has gone crazy. >> joining me now is former ragan economic advisor art laffer, the inventor of the laffer curve and my good friend. when donald trump was campaigning for president he was critical of janet yellen and the fed for keeping interest rates really low. now he's got his hand picked guy heading the fed, jerome powell, and he has called him crazy, loco and out of control. i don't think jerome powell has ever been called out of control by anybody. what's up? >> i don't think he's out of control either to be frank with you, but donald trump has always liked low interest rates. he believes that's good and stimulative. in his previous incarnation he was a builder and builders like

to borrow money at lower interest rates so that's fully understandable. he has wanted lower rates and when powell moved the rates this time and it happened to coincide with a modest, reasonable fall in the market, i think he -- i think he criticized powell politically to a large extent. >> but he used to tweet janet yellen about why won't you increase interest rates? it's hard for savers. so he has changed his position on this. >> yes. >> at least when he wasn't president. >> it does matter whether interest rates are 0 or 2.5%. the level of interest rates does matter but you're correct. he has been against the obama fed and i think he quite correctly is. janet yellen kept interest rates way, way, way too low which destroyed the flow of capital into the housing market and that's why we had ten years or nine years of the lowest new housing starts per 10,000 in u.s. history. they caused the great recession, my view. you know, rates are going up and i think he was just caught off guard on the stock market drop.

he decided to criticize powell. >> okay. so one of the problems -- look, presidents never like it when interest rates go up prior to an election. >> no, they don't. >> you know, alan greenspan got criticized for it. here's the issue. guys like you like low taxes. >> yes. >> this is the tax bill that passed is supposed to do particularly corporate taxes. it was supposed to lower the rate and broaden the base so that everybody actually paid the rate. they didn't close a lot of loopholes. the net result is that we are headed towards yet bigger deficits. how do we square this? >> i don't think we are headed towards bigger deficits. you don't have to close the loopholes by law, ali, to have them not effective. when you drop it from 35% to 21% tax evasion is less attractive. you don't have to change the laws about tax evasion, it's always been illegal. it makes it less attractive. the same thing for tax shelters, the same thing for corporate forms, the same thing for secondary taxes, the same thing

for where you locate your facilities. all of that doesn't require specific legislation to get people to do that. they do it because they have incentives to do it and they do it pretty darn well. >> i want to show you the stock market for the last few presidents. >> sure. >> we have seen -- we've seen this market that we're in largely go up starting about march of 2008. now we've seen -- looking at the last few weeks, you know, i think we're still ahead year to date by about 2% on the s&p 500. >> we are, yes. >> are you particularly worried about the increasing in interest rates and the effect it's going to have on the stock market? >> i do believe very firmly, ali, that we should raise interest rates over the next year or so to bring them up to normal market rates. if we're going to have a boom, the real tip turn has to be in the 2.5 to 3.5% range. if that's the case, adding on a 2% inflation premium i think the ten-year bond should be in the

4.5 to 5.5% range for a good, long prosperous economy to be there. i think powell is right allowing rates to rise and i have very little criticism of him. 25 days before an election, i've been involved in all of this in the white house when i was there in '70 to '72 yelling at arthur burns for the same reason and, in fact, nixon credits arthur burns with his loss in 1960. >> if you look a little harder, you have more money to put away, you can do better. >> yes. >> the good news is for savers. >> they deserve credit, too. >> the bad news is that mortgage rates will probably head up to 6, maybe even depending on what you are yo' saying, 6.5, 7% for a 30 year fixed mortgage. >> but they should be. >> is that the end of the world? >> no, they should be there. you have to have a return to bring investors to invest in low income people for 30 year mortgages. how do you get someone to lend

that money, ali? that's the key here. you have to make it attractive for lenders to buy those mortgages to give them to the people and, you know, they have to make a good rate of return on their capital. they have not been able to do that for the last eight or nine years because interest rates, mortgage interest rates especially are way too low which means that lower income people can't buy a house because they can't get the mortgage. >> right. >> there's only one thing worse than high rates and that's nothing. >> right. right. let me ask you this about deficits. we can disagree where they're going. >> sure. >> at the moment they seem to be going higher and our debt is increasing. we're not going to cut anything on the military. >> that's true. >> we have our programs that we can't cut so we only have discretionary spending to cut. a lot of people are worried that to compensate for an increased deficit that we're seeing, we're going to end up cutting social programs like medicaid even more than we've already seen. >> well, if we get the strong

economy, ali, you're going to find these programs will decline on their own. food stamps, supplemental security and a lot of them are there with growth. when both parents are unemployed, the school lunch program is a necessity, not a luxury. when both parents get good my paying jobs, it's a luxury and you can bring it back into line with historical norms. can i say one thing, ali? you made a segment about global warming. you made the perfect comment and i couldn't agree with you more. we need a carbon tax but to make sure that carbon tax doesn't kill the economy we need an offset on the income tax or the payroll tax. al gore and i have been neighbors. if we could get a completely

100% offset carbon tax to income payroll tax, you'll get this economy booming besides. >> i knew we'd find something to agree about. >> we find a lot to agree about. thank you, ali. >> art laffer. coming up, senator marco rubio tries to outtough the president on saudi arabia. stay with us. audi arabia. stay with us

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the whole meeting was pretty wild and when it ended listen to what one of the anchors on msnbc had to say about what i heard. >> let's have lunch. >> wow. >> always happy to help out my nbc brother jimmy fallon. speaking of comedy, snl took on the kanye/trump summit on. >> i don't want to brag. i have a high i.q. i'm a stable genius. i'm a big brain and i've got the best words. >> oh, my god, he's back me. there is more "am joy" right after this break. twenty-six i n the last decade. allstate is adapting.ade. with drones to assess home damage sooner.

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i will just say this to you with full confidence, if this is proven to be true, there is going to be a response from congress that is going to be nearly unanimous, it's going to be swift and it's going to go pretty far. it could include arm sales but it could include more. >> senator marco rubio is looking to take a harsher stance on saudi arabia. jen, let me hear from you as a republican. there's a lot of pressure on the u.s. government to, look, stop turning the blind eye to what saudi arabia does. there are people who are friends

of jamal khashoggi's say this should not be just about jamal khashoggi, we are in bed with a government that oppresses freedoms and has for decades. what are we going to do about it? chblts wel >> well, this is where the textbook meets the real world. khashoggi situation is going to be an interesting one. i think in the next 72 hours or so we'll find out exactly what may have happened to mr. khashoggi, but president trump's going to have a fine line to walk here as are members of congress because the saudi arabia lobby, especially for republicans, is quite strong on the hill and it's going to be up to them to do the right thing if saudi arabia has something to do with his disappearance or death. we don't have the audio that turkey claims. we've seen turkey release a hostage within the last, you

know, 24/48 hours. there could be a little bit more at play. there could be turkey who often sides with iran on the iran deal is a great alley of iran, a great ally of yemen which is another country, another failed state that iran has been meddling in. there are some divisions here and it is possible that turkey is trying to put a wedge between the u.s. and saudi arabia. i think, as i said, we'll see a lot more in the next few days what exactly happened here. >> dana, it is interesting when jen talks about iran. that is the one country we tend to be critical of when it comes to human rights and press freedom and those types of things but it happens all over the world. as long as we do business with a country, we're less critical. this is where international diplomacy and the real world come together. we as americans don't always under score that. >> we don't but, you know,

historically there has to be some sort of a boundary here. yes, for a long time the united states has propped up friendly regimes and sort of with a wink or looking the other way. this is extraordinarily flagrant. w yes, it's not 100% known but if it is what it looks like, a murder of an american journalist in another country, possibly dismembered and whisked out of the country, that goes beyond any sort of, you know, routine persecution of people at home. i'm not surprised by the things marco rubio is saying. i think he is right. there is a move in congress. >> yes. >> what we've seen happen before is they come out with big talk and then sort of back down when they clash with the president. >> michelle, let's bring it back

home to the elections in the united states and georgia where stacy abrams is running in georgia. they've put a whole bunch of voters on hold because of something called an exact match system. if there's any glitch between your name or a missing hyphen, your vote can be held. let's listen to what stacy abrams had to say about this. >> we know this is a flawed system that has a disproportionate effect on people of color but it also has the ability to erode trust in our system. i know that secretary kemp is well aware of this and it's part of a pattern of behavior where he tries to tilt the playing field. we've put together the largest voter protection effort in the state's history and we have national organizations that are also paying attention and i think we can make this work.

>> michelle, what do you make of what's going on in georgia? >> i think it's an absolute travesty and i will put it in terms much stronger than what stacy abrams said. it looks like sheer unadulterated cheating. if you look at the people's ability who has been quote, unquote, put on hold, they are people of color. they're all going to vote for stacy abrams. it looks like the nation is on the verge of electing its first african-american female governor in the state of georgia. we're seeing things happen in georgia, we're seeing the possibility in florida and it seems as if when the going gets rough or tough, the easiest thing to do is to purge people from the voter roles. it is absolutely insane. thank god for the voter protection efforts taking place across the country. i am hoping that people in georgia who are being affected by this understand that they can show up at the polls. they need to bring an i.d. and

they need to call lawyers because you cannot in this day and age take away the vote from any american in the united states because a hyphen or a period is missing in their name just to win an election. it's cheating. it is no different than anything we saw when people were required to tell how many jelly beans were in a jar in order to be able to vote. if you can't win honestly, then you shouldn't be in the game. >> i'm glad to see michelle actually tell people to bring an i.d. to the polls because she definitely would diverge from the democratic party there. look, i can tell you -- >> jen, that's not true. come on. >> it is true. it is true. >> i've never heard democrats say they shouldn't have i.d. there are a lot of questions about i.d. requirement laws but that's just -- that's just not true. we don't have democrats telling people they shouldn't have i.d.s. >> in california there are a great many people include carmella harris that have said

that. this happens in the lead up to any major election. it happens on the right and left. i can tell you as someone who was an assistant secretary of state charged with over seeing the integrity of the 1r0vote, i more serious. what's more egregious than this and that is that the dmv, the department of motor vehicles in california was signing people up to vote without their position and signing them up to vote democrat. >> this is not california. i'm sorry to interrupt but we're not talking about california. we're talking about georgia. we are on the heels of a historic election in the state of georgia and we've got to focus on georgia. this is unadulterated cheating. we are seeing it in every state in the nation and it always happens in communities of color. >> it doesn't always happen in

communities. no, it doesn't. >> the people are being struck from the roles were white and they were not people of color -- >> if you could let michelle finish her point. >> the point i'm making, if this were to happen on a regular basis in communities that are vastly white, there would be so much rage. there would be an uproar all over the country by whites. we are not seeing it now because it is stacy abrams, it is the south, she is an african-american woman. people are saying it's not a big deal, he's just following the rules, everything is going to be fine. that's not true. we don't know that. we absolutely don't know that. the voting rights of african-americans have been abridged over and over and over again and it has gotten so much worse since president trump was elected. >> one of the problems, jen -- >> i didn't hear any evidence of that. >> you talked about when you were an assistant secretary of state you had to oversee these things. the problem is, kemp is in charge of this.

that creates yet another level of complexity here. >> correct. >> he's the guy running against stacy abrams and the number of people taken off the roles could actually be smaller than the number of people who will decide this election in georgia. there's an inherent conflict there. >> i actually agree with that, ali. i think that there should be some program put into place where he either recuses himself from the counting of the votes or insulates himself from the teams within his secretary of state's office that would be doing that, but i don't think we can't say to people you can't run for governor if you hold a position like attorney general that might oversee a ballot challenge or secretary of state. if that were the case, we wouldn't see carmella harris. >> no, i don't think we have disagreement on that. i don't think they shouldn't be able to run. we had a similar situation in kansas, dahna, in an administration where we find doesn't take tampering and election interference that

seriously, they are very, very, very, very worried about people double voting which doesn't turn out to be much of a problem in america. >> no, it doesn't. i mean, i think in both instances we have a little bit of the fox guarding the hen house problem and in georgia the disqualifications from the ballot are just the latest. it is true, we have these kinds of disputes before elections all the time. what makes all the difference is the man who's in charge of these efforts that are limiting the vote stands to benefit from this personally. >> but, ali, one last thing, if you're talking about an administration that doesn't take election meddling seriously. you would be talking about the obama administration. they knew in the fall of 2016 it was happening and they chose to do nothing. >> jen, we've had pervasive evidence. we're not going to get into this discussion, jen.

donald trump has not taken this seriously over and over and over again but he takes voter fraud very seriously. i think that's something that all-americans can agree upon. thank you al very much. all right. coming up in the next hour, alex witt is talking about minority leader pelosi's promise to target tax records with the congressman that wants to impeach him. msnbc has double the sharpton, double the fun. you can watch the rev on saturdays at 5:00 p.m. eastern and then on sundays at the same time. up next, the latest installment in "am joy's" ten to watch. by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to,

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♪ one thing leads another i think that the politically expedient vote here was a yes vote. >> why not then? >> because this isn't about politics. this is about a lifetime appointment on the supreme court. this is about a responsibility that we have as leaders, of responsibility that we have to exercise the judgment that we were sent here to exercise. >> in the face of a tough re-election battle in a deep red state north dakota senator and democrat heidi heitkamp took a huge risk in voting no on brett

kavanaugh. one she's been explaining to her constituents ever since. which brings me to the next race to watch, the north dakota senate race where heitkamp st. trailing her opponent by eight points. but heitkamp may not be worried because of the stunning opposite that took place six years ago because of polls that had ten points behind. she's looking for a repeat. john, thank you for being with us. tell me how you see the math that went into heidi heitkamp's decision to vote no on kavanaugh and announce it ahead of time and whether that was met. whether what she was to scott kelly on "60 minutes" was the case. in her mind there was only way to go on this i i don't think it

was any politics. >> the fact of the matter is that because of a lot of factors at play out there, issues on the ground, having done so probably would have taken the kavanaugh vote off for discussion and been good for heitkamp. her voy which she's reiated again and again frankly with some real passion i think is to go where her heart took her and her experience as a prosecutor took her. i think someone who tries to fields -- >> that's what everybody does, they try to find the political calculus. so how does heidi heitkamp make this work for her? how does she close that electoral gap she's got can

kevin kramer right now and how does she save her seat? >> heidi heitkamp has been involved in north dakota politics for a very long time. both she and kramer are extremely experienced, political dreamers and they now how to campaign in the state. for heidi heitkamp its bringing back the issues there. there's also been some developments out there. so for her the key is spending a tremendous amount of time on the ground. in a state with a small population going to very real towns, very rural communities and mobilizing voters who are, you know, inclined to vote for her, remember people think of

north dakota as certainly a presidential state. but you need to understand if we go over the last 50 years we will see a huge amount of the time north dakota has had democratic senators. >> is the polling flawed or wrong in north dakota because it was six years ago? and people who think have got to be looking at that polling and saying something's wrong with it. >> yeah, it's been profoundly flawed or has been over the years. and here's why. north dakota is an immense state where people spend a lot of time driving from place to place. a lot of folks still spend a lot of time out in phone fields. also there's a substantial native-american population, and lault of folks who live in very rural sometimes isolated areas,

they have pollings. but polling has been traditionally hard to do. >> have much more an impact one might say on north dakota than they do on texas. because only when oil is a certain price can they frac, and of course the farming issue. and if there's a long-term win for traders assess it relates to trade. but they can't for two years or so, so heidi heitkamp has to position herself in a way that she can say i can help these two fronts. >> north dakota is a state that has had booms and busts and it's very much affected by federal

policy. that's one of it reasons democratic senators have vote no over the years. and there is an interest in having people on both side of the aisle represent in d.c. what it means is she's got a strong argument. and also a strong argument because communities in the state that really do want a lot of reputation in bhauchgs that goes to a lot of native-american voters and rural voters who worried about things not just like farm prices but keeping schools open, keeping schools funded. these are real issues. >> so in the end, will the no vote on kavanaugh have had a substantial impact on heidi heitkamp? what's your guess? >> it may have an impact.

but at the end of the day heidi heitkamp will undoubtably win or lose on economic issues. >> all right, good to see you, john. and we'll have more "am joy" after the break. have more "am j" after the break. yesss! linzess treats adults with ibs with constipation or chronic constipation. linzess can help relieve your belly pain, and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. see if you're eligible to get 90 days for as little as 30 dollars. do not give linzess to children less than 6 and it should not be given to children 6 to less than 18, it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach-area pain, and swelling. so say yesss! to help for recurring constipation.

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don't do you can do things like change your settings, learn tips and tricks, troubleshoot, and even manage your account. finding your xfinity username or wifi password, restarting your equipment, or paying your bill is easier than ever with x1. x1 help. another reason to love x1. say "teach me more" into your voice remote to get started. and that is our show for today. thanks for watching. "am joy" will be back next saturday 10:00 a.m. eastern. but in the meantime you can watch me on the weekdays