the 400-pound hacker who donald trump once blamed for meddling in the 2016 election is going to have to make room for rogue killers who donald trump today suggested may have killed "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi. the extraordinary claim has ignited a firestorm of criticism from democrats, but more importantly, it ignites a crucial line of questioning into what exactly donald trump is hearing from his own intelligence community. did the cia director write in the pdb that rogue killers are to blame? did the cia director brief that information to the president? today seems like a very good day to invite the u.s. intelligence community to capitol hill in open or closed session to brief members of congress on what exactly the u.s. intelligence community knew about saudi arabia's plan to lure and detain khashoggi before he disappeared. especially since the intelligence community's number one client is telling a story

that is unlikely to be coming from his cia briefers. >> we are going to leave nothing uncovered. with that being said, the king firmly denied any knowledge of it. he didn't really know. maybe -- i don't want to get into his mind, but it sounded to me like maybe these could have been rogue killers. who knows. we're going to try getting to the bottom of it very soon, but his was a flat denial. >> it's a message he underscored in a morning tweet. just spoke to the king of saudi arabia who denies any knowledge of whatever may happen to our saudi arabia citizen. he said they are working closely with turkey to find answer. i am immediately sending our secretary of state to meet with king. and for a president who has had an uneven relationship with his own intelligence community, it is early similar to his refusal to accept the opinion of the intelligence community on

russian meddling. >> i believe that he feels he and russia did not meddle. >> i have great confidence in my intelligence people, but i will tell you that president putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. >> i accept our intelligence community's conclusion that russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. could be other people also. there's a lot of people out there. >> democrats responded with biting criticism. here's one. senator chris murphy of connecticut tweeted, been hearing the ridiculous rogue killers theory was where the saudis would go with this. absolutely extraordinary they were able to enlist the president of the united states as their pr agent to float it. and here's virginia's tim kaine tweeting, president trump's response to jamal khashoggi's disappearance reveals a man more willing to trust authoritarian leaders than reliable

intelligence. it's insulting to jamal's family and colleagues that this is what's coming out of the world's most powerful office. we'll talk to another democrat about these comments in just a few minutes. but before that, let's hear from our reporters. former acting director of the cia, john mclaughlin. "washington post" white house bureau chief phil rucker. associated press white house reporter jonathan lemire and john heilemann, co-host of showtime's "the circus" and nbc and msnbc national affairs analyst joins the table. let me start with you, director mcloughlin. take me through what it says that time and time again the president's reflective response to any sort of crisis is to trust the authoritarian leader telling him something on the phone before and above his own intelligence community. >> nicolle, i think the president has a severe case of what i've always called he told

me disease. in other words, many policymakers have this reaction when a foreign leader lies to them or tells them a story that may not be true. with the president trump, it's an epidemic. we've seen it with, of course, as you pointed out, with president putin. we've seen it also with kim jong-un. and now we see it with the king of saudi arabia. i mean, just on its face, a whole series of questions arise. for example, if these were rogue killers, who were the people in those two gulfstream aircraft who were going in and out of the embassy, the consulate there in istanbul? so it doesn't make a lot of sense. and i think it's another evidence that the president is very susceptible to persuasion by anyone who flatters him as the saudis did so magnif cently during his trip there. i think that's what's going on here. it's hard for me to believe that our intelligence community would have given him that conclusion.

>> can i put you on the spot? do you think there's any chance the word rogue killers exists in his pdb or was briefed to him other than for the intelligence community to describe that as the saudis' alibi at this hour? >> i don't know, but i would doubt it. it may be a theory going around, of course, one theory going around is that this was intended to be some other kind of operation or rendition operation or something like that where they were to swoop in and take him away. and it went bad. and i could construct a scenario under which that could happen. but -- and also i'm impressed that mbs has really gotten rid of the person i thought was the most sophisticated intelligence chief we had in saudi arabia. that is muhammad bin nayaf. >> he's in house arrest is that

correct? >> he's in house arrest of sorts. and so it's imaginable to me that they can be awfully off-handed but that's sheer speculation and how do we explain two aircraft, 15 people, these reports of bone saws and all of that. uncertain origin those reports but nonetheless, they're out there. >> phil rucker, can you take me inside the white house reaction to having their boss, to having the president once again at odds or we have good reason to believe that describing the motive or scenario that ended up in the death and/or disappearance of jamal khashoggi as rogue killers. the turks claim to have audio recordings of his brutal murder. there are u.s. intelligence intercepts that we had knowledge that the saudis planned to lure him and detain him. what does the white house say when the president of the united states takes to the cameras and

talks about rogue killers? >> well, the administration has tried to be very cautious as they proceed day by day with this story in part because it's still unfolding before our eyes. you mentioned the audio and video recordings that the turks are purported to have showing evidence of khashoggi being killed at the consulate there. the u.s. government, at least as of this weekend, has not seen those recordings. the u.s. does not possess them. trump actually said that he has requested them and hopes to see them very soon but has not seen them yet. so they are not getting all the information that they need from our partners in turkey. they certainly don't seem to be getting the full version of the truth from the saudis. but again, what you have is the president sort of taking a foreign leader at his word, even though there are indications in the u.s. intelligence report that he's been seeing -- that he has seen and that we've been reporting on for several days, that there's much more to the story than the denial that king

salman gave him. >> one of the people who took to twitter to respond harshly to donald trump's description of rogue killers this morning as the ones responsible for khashoggi's death and disappearance is chris van hollen. president trump's suggestion that khashoggi's elaborately planned murder in the saudi's own consulate was orchestrated by rogue killers defies reality. orders must have come from the top. the u.s. must not be complicit in efforts to cover up this crime. he joins me from capitol hill. former cia directors, former ambassadors have said over and over again that if this operation is as the turkish government describes it, it absolutely would have been done with the knowledge of mbs and officials at the top of the saudi government. >> well, nicolle, it's shameful that the president of the united states would allow himself to be used as the mouthpiece for the saudi regime's cover-up story here.

look, here's what we know. we know this repressed reports that u.s. intelligence agencies knew that the saudi government, not rogue elements, the saudi government, was trying to lure khashoggi to saudi arabia. when he went to the consulate for personal reasons, they told him the day to come back. and the notion that the crown prince or the highest members of the saudi government did not know that khashoggi was walking into their consulate that day, even as they had those two saudi aircraft arriving in istanbul, just defies any kind of reality. and for the president of the united states to participate in what clearly is a saudi effort at cover-up and whitewash is really undermining the credibility of the united states in so many ways. >> do you think that there's a gap between what the president is being told and what the president is saying, or do you think the president is -- do you think there's any scenario where the president was briefed by his

cia briefer today or by dni coats or by anyone in the intelligence community? hey, mr. president, rogue killers did it. >> look, i am willing to bet the farm on this one, nicolle. there's no way that is what the cia has said. the cia said with respect to the -- again, this was in the pnl reporting, with respect to the killing, that there's no way the crown prince would not know. whether the king knew, i don't know, but there's no way the crown prince who has taken the reins of day-to-day government in saudi arabia was not either hatching this plot, certainly aware of this plot. and we know he has very thin skin. we know that he was upset with what khashoggi was writing. and when the canadian foreign ministry called saudi arabia on their human rights violations, they kicked out the ambassador. so they are clearly in overreaction mode, and this one is just outrageous. >> what degree do you think the president's rhetoric where he

calls journalists enemies of the people and praises dictators like vladimir putin, like mbs, like kim jong-un. do you think that climate contributes to the situation we find ourselves? >> there's no doubt in my mind. the fact that the president of the united states has abandoned what has been a bipartisan tradition in this country of the president of the united states standing up for human rights and freedom of the press certainly emboldened foreign authoritarian leaders to try to lock people up because of what they're writing. throw human rights activists in jail. and in this case, leading the saudi regime to think that they could do this and somehow get away with that. and it undermines our leadership in the world and, you know, here we have a situation where there's a real danger that turkey, which is economically struggling, you know, will want to cut a deal with saudi arabia

to come up with some kind of cover story. and if the government of the united states is complicit in that cover up, shame on us. it will just further undermine our credibility around the world. >> let me press you on one last question about that. what is the appropriate oversight role for congress to make sure that doesn't happen, that the white house, the president, his son-in-law jared kushner is extremely close. personally. has family and financial ties to the investment arm of the saudi government, as does the trump organization. what is the appropriate oversight role for congress to answer these questions? >> well, you're right. from the very start, president trump and jared kushner have put all their eggs in the saudi regime's basket. now all of that is falling apart which is why they're probably desperate to come up with another story as well. it's really important that congress on a bipartisan basis get the administration down here. bring the intelligence agencies down to capitol hill and make sure that they are telling us

the truth, not providing us with the saudi regime's cover story. so far, we have had a strong bipartisan condemnation of what the saudis appear to have done here. and hopefully we will keep that bipartisan coalition together. and the real concern here is that republicans somehow, you know, take the president at his word as part of this cover-up. but i don't think it's going to happen in this instance because that would undermine the credibility of the united states government. if we're seen at participating in a total whitewash of this heinous crime. >> senator van hollen, thank you for spending time with us. we're grateful. john heilemann, just take me through where you think we are that the president of the united states was on the lawn of the white house on his way to florida talking about rogue killers. this isn't the transition where he was still suspicious of deep state trying to tilt the election. he's been president for almost two years.

>> we're in an incredibly depressing place. i was at an event saturday night that was filled with about 75 people. one of the most sophisticated groups of people i know. lobbyists, former elected officials, democrats, republicans, people who served in white houses in the past. journalists. a couple foreign diplomats. one middle eastern diplomat all asking -- i walked around and said do you have any doubt what happened here? no one in the room had any doubt about it. none of them are privy to top-secret intelligence. these are people of the world. and there was a sense of -- it was a celebratory occasion but people were, in this conversation, had the sense of kind of gnawing dread about it because everyone there remembered another occasion, 16 years earlier, back when danny pearl was killed. a different sort of circumstance but where there was no moral ambiguity on the part of your boss about who was responsible and about what the consequence would be. everyone in that group republican and democrat alike was gripped by this terror that

we were going to be exactly where we are today because everyone understands that donald trump is about donald trump and donald trump's money more than anything else. and donald trump's money and his family's money, a lot of it, some of it, important large chunks of it, runs straight through saudi arabia. and the fact that we would end up with some kind of a discussion like this in which a theory would be floated, almost like someone is going to say jamal khashoggi is on a beach in the seychelless on monday. donald trump will iend up enunciating a crazy theory that will be all about getting him some kind of implausible, except to him in his mind plausible, reason to excuse and try to cover up what actually happened here. and that, i think, left everyone in that group with a sense of, this is a -- this is a very, very important moment between the united states and saudi arabia. and saudi arabia's place in the world and washington and other places. and for the president to be

behaving like this is a cause for profound moral concern. >> i've been hearing similar degree of alarm among former intelligence officials who feel that two years in, the relationship shouldn't be such that he's briefed by his intelligence community and walks on the south line and talk about rogue killers. that's something a 1 of 17 candidates in a gop primary can say maybe. a guy in a general election talking about -- i think that's where he talked about the 400-pound hacker. >> this is about him trying to find an excuse because he's got too much skin in this game to go after mbs. that's all this is about. this is about the bottom line. >> but jonathan lemire, i'm old enough to remember when national security and intelligence and any misstatements by the president of the united states was a def-com one political scandal. so where are we that the -- i just stopped in my tracks and didn't hear much else that happened today after i saw the

president of the united states go to the lawn and blame rogue killers. it's like out of "star wars." what is he talking about? >> this administration, that level of -- that scale doesn't erupt around these comments. even though we should not be, this is a significant statement he made where he seems to be voicing whatever the saudi line is. it seems very unlikely this was in the pdb. you said he had an uneven relationship with the u.s. intelligence agencies. that's very kind. that's an understatement. this is less about that as it is about the ties to saudi arabia. he was very up front about it suggesting he didn't want to damage the weapons sales they have with riyadh. the tens of millions of dollars at stake that would hurt the american economy if this went away. he's transparent about not wanting to push saudi arabia in that way but there's another layer here. saudi arabia is key to what they believe will be the middle east peace plan that jerod curber? wo -- kushner is working on. you know the president himself,

the saudis set the template as to what a president trump foreign trip will be. i was in riyadh with him for two those two days when his image was broadcast on road sides and he was given a royal welcome and every country has tried to match him. >> emulate the saudis. >> and that's what they've done. they've established these close ties. he seems inclined to take their word for it. at least carry the water publicly for their cover story no matter how implausible it may be even though it flies in the face of what his own intelligence agencies are telling him. >> i'm old enough to remember when these counted as big scandals and i understand that president trump does a volume business. 40% of the country is hard wired to believe him when he says the sky is green and the ocean is purple. i understand we're living in this post-fact world. but the intelligence community isn't supposed to. where is a whistleblower going to emerge from to say, hey, we didn't tell him that. we didn't brief him. that's not in the pdb.

when are they going to go to congress? when will they sort of tell the story about the gap between what he says and what the u.s. intelligence community tells him is true? >> well, the best way to get to that point, nicolle, is for our oversight system to work. that is to say two intelligence committees. they can call the community down, director coats, any other member of the intelligence community. gina haspel, and ask those questions. is what you are -- what are you telling the president. they can hear it in closed session, open session, and then draw the appropriate conclusion. i think this is a case where there's a lot going on in this case, as you pointed out and as other guests have said. lord knows, for example, it occurred to me today when i heard about this turkish/saudi working group, what can that be about, really. i'm guessing that that's erdogan putting on the table his price

for not putting these videos and audio recordings out. so there's a lot going on here. also on the intelligence side -- >> do you think donald trump understands what you just described? >> i doubt it. i think that's a layer of complexity to which he does not descend, i don't think. but i think -- imagine now i don't know what our intelligence community knows but i know they'll know a lot about this. and also, they will, if i was at cia, i'd be asking our allies what they know or jordanian partners, our european partners. they all have means of knowing what's going on here. or israeli partners, although they have a very close relationship with saudi arabia right now and might, you know, might be a little uncomfortable. but i think i'm sure our intelligence community has a pretty good idea of what happened here. >> i hope that gets out. john mclaughlin, thanks for spending some time with us. >> after the break, donald trump has the job he's always wanted.

he's his very own communications strategist. we'll show you how that's working out. look who donald trump is calling a democrat now. his own secretary of defense. the one man guardrail respected around the world as one of the only things standing between donald trump and chaos. and elizabeth warren calls trump's bluff on his pocahontas attack. we'll show you the results of her dna test and trump's feeble response. there's little rest for a single dad, and back pain made it hard to sleep and get up on time. then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid,

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whole new communications style with the president front and center. maggie haberman rights air force one has become a flying call center. the oval office, a revolving door of journalists, dignitaries and celebrities. rock stars and cabinet secretaries wander the white house driveway. it can be the site of an impromptu news conference when president trump enters one of the more talkative cycles of his presidency and ahead of the midterms, post-supreme court confirmation. he is in one. the environment around him becomes a stage and questions of a grand strategy arise. but there is none, people close to him say. his aides are clearing a path as the president speaks and speaks and speaks and speaks for himself. joining us a.b. stoddard for real clear politics and bill kristol, founder and editor of the weekly standard. watching "60 minutes" last night, i want to play what he said about secretary mattis. it was clear this is the non-plan, plan.

>> yes. i think it's -- look, it's so interesting because when people like jonathan are in that room with sarah and she's telling nontruth or she's just really strainuously avoiding answering a question and goes into a robot mode. everyone talks about it and gets frustrated. when he comes on and says things like matt sis a democrat and it doesn't matter what i said about dr. ford and how i mocked her, we won and that's all that matters. that sums it up. when he tells untruths, people expect it. and so it's this weird shift where there's all this pressure that used to be there on the administration because people like sean spicer and sarah sanders came out and we expected them to give us the honest truth and we were frustrated. they thought they could get away with it. he's happy to go on f fox & friends for 46 minutes straight. they're trying to get him off the phone and say the ocean is green and the sky is purple and everything else, because he enjoys it. >> we call them lies here at the 4:00. let's watch his comments on

mattis. >> is it true, general mattis said to you, the reason for nato and the reason for all these alliances is to prevent world war iii. >> no, it's not true. frankly, i like general mattis. i think he knows more about it than he does. i know more about it from the standpoint of fairness. i have a great cabinet. there are some people i'm not happy with. >> who are you -- >> i don't want to say that. but i have some people that i'm not thrilled with. and i have other people that i'm beyond thrilled with. >> what about general mattis? is he going to leave? >> well, i don't know. he hasn't told me that. i have a good relationship with him. >> do you want him to leave? >> i think he's sort of a democrat, if you want to know the truth. >> he used to sort of be a democrat himself, if you want to know the truth. >> trump, yeah. mattis is a pretty apolitical figure. lindsey graham would like to be secretary of defense. i imagine will be. maybe can be confirmed by the senate. the guardrails continue to

recede, if that's the right word or go down or whatever guardrails do. >> be removed. and that's what we've been seeing. we can sit here and mock trump as he deserved to be mocked or genuinely, as jonathan was saying, be very distressed about what he's saying from the point of view of national interest. trump looks up n saand says youe all making fun of me. his approval is up in most polls. who knows what the real causality it, but there's no evidence it's hurting them. republicans have stabilized a little bit in some of the races around the country. trump is sitting there doing his thing and so far paying little price for it. >> let's watch more of that interview about who he trusts and doesn't trust. >> the first lady melania. >> yes. >> she said there are still people in the white house that she doesn't trust and that you shouldn't trust. >> i feel the same way. i don't trust everybody in the white house. i'll be honest with you. >> you go to a meeting, do you

have to wonder? is he wearing a wire? >> not so much a wire. i'm usually guarded. and i think i'm guarded anyway. but i'm not saying i trust everybody in the white house. i'm not a baby. it's a tough business. this is a vicious place. washington, d.c., is a vicious, vicious place. the attacks, the bad mouthing, the speaking behind your back. you know, and, in my way, i feel very comfortable here. >> that's an underrated trump line there. it's a vicious, vicious place. i feel very comfortable here. that's fantastic. he's saying publicly, though, what we've been reporting that there are a number of people in the white house. his trusted circle has really shrunk. particularly in the last couple of months. >> who is in it? >> certainly jared and ivanka. steven miller. bolton, pompeo, people like that. after the unanimous op-ed in

"the times" which a month has come and gone. after the woodward book where everyone seems to have -- >> how long ago was that? >> only about a month. >> dog years. >> a thousand years ago? >> and that he does feel like that he is, you know, there are few people he can confide in. he's even said he's told people around him, he looks around the room like who is in this meeting and how should i conduct myself here. >> everything spills out of him. >> he's on the driveway. on the driveway talking -- >> but to further that point. this is an aggressive public media blitz right now. they've said he's their best communications director and he's grabbed that and embraced it. he feels it's going really well. he sees they've had a good run between kavanaugh, the poll numbers ticking up, the economy still looking good, and he wants to be out there selling it. there's no sign of that abating. >> phil rucker, i picked up a bit of information today that with melania's big splash friday

night, while there have been talks for a long time with leslie stahl, the president was pleased he wasn't overshadowed by melania's big debut network interview and was very pleased that he, too, had a network biggie this weekend. does that sound like the president you cover? >> exactly spot on because the president was asked about melania over the weekend, about her friday night special on abc. and he said he thought she did very well, but bragged that he would be headlining "60 minutes" on sunday night. it's very important to him. i was at the white house on saturday. he welcomed pastor brunson home after being in jail for two months in a turkish prison. but it's like he never stopped taking questions from us in the press pool. it was a 10 or 15 minutes of questions in the oval office. and a half hour later as he went to board the helicopter, another 12 minutes of questions on a whole different set of topics. he probably could have kept going. >> i love the idea of, she did very well on friday night but

who watches tv on friday nights. sunday nights, that's when people watch tv. that's all -- i'll be on sunday. you'll see me there. you can see what you think is better. >> i think you're probably right. >> you know it's in his head. friday night, that's fine but it's kind of the b-league. >> somebody is going to wear a wire and we'll hear that conversation. after the break, leslie stahl offers to take donald trump to greenland after one of the most remarkable parts of that interview. we'll show you why. ninety-six hundred roads named "park" in the u.s. it's america's most popular street name. but allstate agents know that's where the similarity stops. if you're on park street in reno, nevada, the high winds of the washoe zephyr could damage your siding. and that's very different than living on park ave in sheboygan, wisconsin, where ice dams could cause water damage. but no matter what park you live on, one of 10,000 local allstate agents knows yours. now that you know the truth, are you in good hands? - [narrator] meet shark's newest robot vacuum. it powerfully cleans from floors to carpets,

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do you still think that climate change is a hoax? >> look, i think something is happening, something is changing, and it will change back again. i don't think it's a hoax. i think there's probably a difference, but i don't know that it's manmade. i'm not denying climate change, but it could very well go back. we're talking about -- >> that's denying it. >> they say that we had hurricanes that were far worse than what we just had with michael. >> who says that? "they say." >> people say that --

>> but what about the scientists who say it's worse than ever? >> you have to show me the scientists because they have a very big political aagenda, leslie. scientists also have a political agenda. >> i don't even know what to say. >> politically motivated scientists. >> he has obviously gone -- this is where he is on climate change. he won't embrace it. putting forth short-term economic gain. last week we tried to ask him if he read this new report -- >> we don't have to choose anymore. >> you would think so. >> we asked him about this new study if he read it. the answer is, no, i haven't yet. there's no indication he has to this point. the conspiracy scientist stuff ties into the deep state idea that he always feels like people have -- if people reach a conclusion different than his, they're actively conspiring against him. sounds like a lunatic thing to say but it's a way to try to dismiss this report which is damaging and very compelling. >> these are infowars.

far, far right loony talking points. he doesn't have an opinion about any of this. this is what you want to say if you want to be connected to the far right of the party. say the scientists all have political agenda. it might turn back. think about the fundamental idiocy. i believe in climate change but it might turn back. the core argument of this is that the earth is on a trajectory where it's getting hotter in an irrevocably way. to say it might turn back is to say it's 72 today, might be 64 the next day. he's treating climate change as if it's a weather forecast. that's the level of -- inherent in the discussion is a total lack of understanding of what the actual argument is about. >> he doesn't want to deal with climate change. he wants to run on the economy.

he'll give this answer. we'll all say this is ridiculous, this is ludicrous, no one will care. then he'll go around the country saying i believe in the economy and new jobs. these democrats are environmental whackos. he doesn't care about mr. khashoggi getting murdered. pompeo will come back from riyadh and they'll have a meeting and i sent the secretary of state and we don't have to do anything. this is what he believes unfortunately. >> you mentioned his comments about kavanaugh. we have that part of the interview. >> you mimicked professor blasey ford. you mimicked her. >> had i not made that speech, we would not have won. i was just saying she didn't seem to know anything. >> professor blasey ford got before the senate and was asked what's the worst moment. she said when the two boys laughed at me at my expense. and then i watched you mimic her and thousands of people were laughing at her.

>> they can do -- i will tell you this. the way now justice kavanaugh was treated has become a big factor in the midterms. have you seen what's gone on with the polls? >> but did you have to -- >> well, i think she was treated with great respect. i'll be honest. there are those that think she shouldn't have been. >> do you think you treated her with great respect? >> i think so, yeah, i did. >> he play acted her. he talked like -- very similar to the way he mocked a -- the word is mocked. he mocked her. the way he mocked a "new york times" journalist during the campaign. >> yes. >> that is what it was. and polls will be polls. i understand that. but that people are satisfied by the politics of it doesn't make it any less disgufts isting. >> but he is enjoying the fact there were reports and accounts in the days that followed that said that the fact that he turned it at a rally into an issue where you have to be with me emboldened republicans to

sort of carry on and do what he did which is always deflect back to kavanaugh and how he was mistreated. and always change the subject back to the fact that these are unprovable allegations that can't be dismissed or discredited so you smash this poor man into a box and ruin his career. that's what he did when she kept pressing him on how she treated dr. ford. he said did you know what happened to kavanaugh, and have you seen what's going on in the polls? and it's not -- it wouldn't be beyond him having listened to what he told leslie stahl about, if i had not done that, we would not have won. i'm sure he said that to brett kavanaugh's face in the white house holding room before the east room ceremony. all a zero-sum game. the ends always justify the means, and everything along the way is collateral damage. he does not care, like bill said. he's so excited about the bump in the polls and the fact he buildings he can take credit for a final confirmation vote because he mocked dr. ford at a rally. >> he also broke new ground on

mueller. that's something you care a lot about. i want to hear your thoughts. >> will you pledge -- pledge that you will not shut down the mueller investigation? >> well, i don't pledge anything, but i have no intention of doing that. i think it's a very unfair investigation because there was no coclusion of any kind. there is no -- >> you won't pledge? >> why should i pledge to you? if i pledge, i'll pledge. do you really think i'd call russia to help me with an election? give me a break. they wouldn't be able to help me at all. call russia. it's so ridiculous. >> they've helped him by investing in some of his property. >> calling on the russians to release the 33,000 e-mails -- >> hey, russia, if you can hear me. >> but he wouldn't call on russia. >> certainly not in public on national television. >> just the picture, the image of smallness and weakness and pettiness standing next to

vladimir putin in helsinki when you asked that question and saying, oh, no, no, i'm not with the entire u.s. intelligence committee. i'm with this guy. >> a guy increasingly emboldened. if they pick up a senate seat or two and hold the house losses. if the democrats can't expand the electorate, it's a routine election. he'll be more emboldened. it makes november -- >> he's going to fire somebody at the justice department. >> why do you think he'd stop at someone? >> could be several someones. >> well, people i know who follow this very closely think that the investigation is embedded in the fbi and southern district of new york. it's not so easy to -- for trump just to snap his fingers and stop it. but there might be ways he could indirectly slow it down and intimidate people. i think he's -- i don't rule anything out. if the democrats win the house they'll have all these investigations, yeah, they can try to. he can also tell his cabinet secretaries and white house staff not to cooperate. 6, 8, 12 months, yes.

they'll have a lot fiof fights. look, they're trying to stop me. what donald trump we see beginning november 7th. >> there's a wide held belief that changes in the justice department are coming off the midterms. and there's a sense of real confidence now of people in the white house. people who a few weeks ago were more pessimistic about where things were going in november who feel more bullish about keeping the senate, minimizing some of the house losses. and the president is saying he'd treat that as a referendum and be more emboldened. >> don mcgahn, the white house counsel, at times i think checked trump. especially in the latter, last year or so. he's they're bringing else someone else as the white house counsel who has no political experience and very much a trump loyalist. >> what could go wrong? bill kristol, thank you for spending some time with us. after donald trump spent years poking fun at elizabeth

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discover.o. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover.

let's say i'm debating pocahontas, right? i promise you i'll do this. i will take, you know, those little kits they sell on television for $2. learn your heritage. we will take that little kit and say -- but we have to do it gently because we're in the me too generation, so i have to be very gentle. and we will very gently take that kit and we will slowly toss it, hoping it doesn't hit her and injure her arm, even though it only weighs probably two ounces. and we will say, i will give you a million dollars to your favorite charity, paid for my trump, if you take the test and it shows you're an indian. >> thpresident trump daring

senator elizabeth warren to prove her claim. mr. president, she called her bluff. th she released results of a dna test. it provides strong evidence she had a native american in her family tree dating back six to ten generations. it was an effort to defuse questions about her ancestry. she planned an elaborate roll-out monday of the results as she aimed for widespread attention. one person didn't want to pay any attention. >> -- senator elizabeth warren releasing the results of her dna test? >> no, eye who cares. >> mr. president, you said you'd pay her $1 million to charity -- >> i didn't say that. you better read it again. >> co-founder of the beat dc. i was ready to dive into that. it's so remarkable and bob woodward's book, the section that didn't get as much attention as the stuff about

russia and foreign policy was the section in the beginning where steve bannon and dave bossey meet with trump years before he runs. you don't vote for republicans and two, you're pro choice. he goes, no, i vote in primaries. they said we can tell when you vote. you can see who i voted for? no, we can tell when you vote. and he said i've been pro-life my whole life. and the point of woodward's reporting on the early interactions is that he's a pathological liar. we played the clip. he's been obsessed with warren and her ancestry. >> you elect a clown, you get a circus. these ridiculous statements coming out of his mouth. he lied about it again, the fact he said he'd give her a million dollars. what i find most interesting is it comes out the same day kevin mccarthy, we find out his family has benefited getting over $7 million in contracts because they claim to be native american. so i'm waiting to see what the president's nickname will be for

him. instead of talking about this revelation that she actually does have native american ancestry, i wish we could talk about how native americans are being disenfranchised to north where the supreme court is stopping thousands of people from voting because native americans on reservations don't have mailing addresses. that's for more interesting and relevant to me than what elizabeth warren's dna is. i think her coming out with this is a sign she's definitely running. i think we're known that. the platform, her staff skpi an are in close contact all the time. they reach out when we're looking for a staffer. th they cater to news and they care about diversity. i don't care about her makeup. the president did. it's a quick transition from who

cares where days ago it was i care very much. he's running scared. he knows there are people who are tired of his one trick pony anticks and are tired of the nicknames and tired of the anticks. as we go into midterms, there are a lot of republicans who like his policies but don't like him and i think that will reflect itself on the house races and senate races across the country. >> there's something else in her decision to answer his question. it reminds me of mark -- marco rubio's decision about the size of his hands. he said in front of an event we call her pocahontas. >> i don't know the answer. i just don't know what the right -- it's a tactical thing. it's not clear to me. is she trolling him? is there some kind of element of you bet me a million dollars -- >> i'm going to collect? >> yeah. is there some way she's

basically trying to get in his face because she was confident of what the answer is going to be and she's finally telling him shut up, and here's some science, i know you don't understand how dna works, but take a look at this. i don't know what works. >> to that point, it did work. he was on the rare occasion i've seen him speechless. >> let's remember, obama -- we have seen people match his request before. he certainly wasn't far off the white house lawn. he told me this is one he wants. i think what we're going to see her as we start gearing towards 2020, it's going to be a very crowded democratic field and there's a lot of questions of who's going to breakthrough. in part it's going to be who donald trump chooses to breakthrough. who he elevates by attacking. i think elizabeth warren is a fight he is relishing, one that he wants. >> elizabeth warren respond ed n twitter to his not remembering

he owes her $1. having memory problems? should we call a doctor? you're the least popular president in history. 22 days, tick tock, tick tock. >> one of the favorite things thar said that are said by the president's allies. >> i do want to come back to that, because i think the conventional consultant strategist answer would be don't take the bait because you're turning the -- you're allowing him to turn into this into wher you're trying to prove -- you're letting him put your credibility on trial. if you look at what she's done with her political communication in the wake of this kavanaugh vote where she's basically said i'm angry, we women have a right to be angry, we're going to channel our anger and use your anger, there's a way in which that rhymes with this. she's saying i'm not going to do the safe strategy that a consultant would. yeah, i get that analysis that used to work in politics, but this guy you've got to do

different things. this is a way of flipping the middle finger and maybe that rhymes with the kind of energy she's trying to capture and the kind of frame she wants to put on herself. okay, i'll fight you on any turf she wants to fight me on. >> there are a lot of democrats who wake up and answer questions about hillary clinton's bone headed comments yesterday and they're not really happy with the fact that elizabeth warren did this 22 days before the midterms and give republicans a shiny object to keep talking about. it was really poor timing. she should have waited to launch her campaign until after the morning of november 7th. she's enjoying it, but it wasn't well received by people who were worried about whether or not the party has lost ground in the polls in the last couple weeks and they really want to take the house back and they don't want to focus on this woman in her 70s running for president. >> is this the part -- i get that and i think that's probably the same class of people that think don't take the bait, but

is she sort of -- is she out-trumping trump by speaking straight to an angry base of voters who are sick of watching democrats play by the rules and watching her take it to him? >> i think this goes to eric holder's comments, when they go low we kicked them. i think this is a really rel vont poi -- relevant point and i think it's the right wing media who jumps on this. >> but she gave them something to talk about. >> they will pounce on anything. i think there are a certain -- a new electorate of people coming into this process who want to see democrats play and fight harder. i think if you try to go along and try not to do anything to upset the right wing media, that's a losing game. this environment people are used to people who are not long time politicians. they're used to people who are outside the belt way coming in and mucking up this process.

that's why michael avenatti has gotten so much attention. there are a lot of people who do want to see people meet trump where he is. you see that in candidates in boston, cortez in new york. andrew gillam's campaign in florida. i think that does inspire a new electorate. >> there are republicans who are despondent and wallowing in despair with trump and he won. we're making our very last break. no one is going anywhere. we'll be right back. there's little rest for a single dad,

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important update the elizabeth warren dna update, president trump just told reporters in georgia that he would give her the money he promised the campaign trail only if he could administer the dna test himself. >> i predicted this 15 minutes ago. i predicted it off air on this show. >> blielizabeth warren, he want your saliva. >> did you have to leave that image in my head? donald trump wanting elizabeth warren's saliva? >> this is where we're heading. >> it is not a great way to start a show on a monday. >> happy monday. >> nicole wallace, thank you very much. >> and if it's monday, the forecast