hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. why is the turkish government sounding more alarms about the brutal murder of a "washington post" columnist than donald trump is? trump, after all, is president of the country the columnist called home. it's a puzzling question and may have something to do with the fact that jamal khashoggi, a u.s. resident who worked at "the washington post," died in a saudi consulate on turkish soil. and the turks are the ones controlling the release of the evidence implicating individuals with ties to saudi crown prince muhammad bin salman or mbs. the real head scratcher remains, why is donald trump doing saudi arabia's public relations work for them? and do his comments about rogue killers match the information he's been given from his own intelligence agencies? trump appeared to apply the kavanaugh standard to the saudi crown prince in an interview with the ap late yesterday saying, quote, here we go again, with, you know, you're guilty until proven innocent. i don't like that. we just went through that with

justice kavanaugh. and he was innocent all the way. donald trump's unshakeable faith in the denials from authoritarian leaders in the face of mounting evidence are particularly jarring today. today we're learning grisly new details about khashoggi's brutal murder. "the new york times" today reporting, and i warn you, this is graphic, his killers were waiting when jamal khashoggi walked into the saudi consulate in istanbul two weeks ago. they severed his fingers and later beheaded and dismembered him. that's according to details from audio recordings described by a senior turkish official on wednesday. mr. khashoggi was dead within minutes. and within two hours, the killers were gone, the recordings suggested. for his part, trump was seemingly unmoved by these new details. making these comments after that account surfaced. >> you asked for this audio/video intelligence that the turks -- >> we have asked for it if it exists, yeah. >> are you surprised they haven't turned it over?

>> no, i'm not sure yet that it exists. probably does. possibly does. >> we're talking about a man who lived across the river in virginia. why not send the fbi in to figure all this out? >> he wasn't a citizen of this country, for one thing. and we're going to determine that. and you don't know whether or not we have, do you? i'm not giving cover at all. with that said, saudi arabia has been a very important ally of ours in the middle east. >> here to discuss the day's rather remarkable developments, one of the reporters who interviewed the president yesterday on this topic and many, many, many more, jonathan lemire, white house reporter for the ap. also joining umichael crowley, now white house and national security editor for politico. from "the washington post," white house reporter ashley parker. and ned price, former spokesman for the national security council under president obama. jonathan lemire, take us through your reporting on this topic and on his application of the kavanaugh standard to the saudi crown prince.

>> yeah, that was a pretty stunning link he made yesterday in our oval office interview with the president. where out of nowhere he suggested that, as you read the quote, that he felt that there was a rush to judgment. a troush condemn saudi arabia for what happened here to this journalist. he likened it to what happened to kavanaugh saying they were both guilty until proven innocent, which he said he did not like. but this is in a broader point the latest moment where he has decided to take at face value the denials of an authoritarian leader where he's given them the benefit of the doubt. whether it's putin, sisi or duterte. we've heard this from the president time and time again where u.s. presidents sometimes have to make unsavory compromises with, you know, with sort of dark characters across the globe. this president, though, does it very openly. for him it's a transactional relationship without any of the effort to sort of sound those moral high notes that we usually hear from presidents. trying to make america an example.

that shining city on the hill for the rest of the globe to follow. this president doesn't do that. and he also is one who has really whetted himself to the saudis. right from the beginning of this administration. they decided to make saudi arabia their linchpin in the middle east to be a bullwark against iran, to be a key player in the possible middle east peace deal and fight extremeanism the region. let's remember, it was partially because of jared kushner's very close relationship with mbs that the president, the same president who called for a muslim ban, made his first stop on his maiden international trip riyadh. he went to saudi arabia. i was on that trip, too. he was flattered by the king. clearly charmed by the king. and since then, has given him the benefit of the doubt time and time again and seems to be slow walking this investigation. >> it's remarkable. the brain child of that decision to go to saudi arabia first was jared kushner. and he continues to be an interesting character in all this. let me go through the evidence that we learned of today tying

the murder of "washington post" columnist jamal khashoggi to mbs, the leader of saudi arabia that donald trump is so reflexively loyal to and defending. in his public statements. so "the new york times" has released photos of the suspects. they, obviously, worked in proximity to mbs. they traveled together. they released passport photos of the alleged hit squad. they know exactly who was there. now i'm old enough to remember when the united states intelligence agencies would have that information, too. michael crowley, do you think there's a growing gap between what the u.s. intelligence agencies know and what they're telling the president and what he is saying? >> well, you know, i think that it's not possible that u.s. intelligence agencies are telling the president that things he's saying in public.

i just find it incredibly hard to believe that, you know, intelligence professionals are saying that the saudis are innocent until proven guilty. i think it's reasonable for us to take some of the reports coming out of turkey with a grain of salt. the turkish government has a lot of problems of its own, including its fidelity to the truth and information and some of its state media outlets are dubious. but there's a clear picture forming here that is not the one that the president is peddling. and i can't believe it's the one u.s. intelligence agencies are seeing. and i think it's got to be dismaying to intelligence officials to see the president characterizing the story in a way that does seem at odds with a lot of persuasive facts. that said, you don't get a sense there's a lot of dissent in the trump administration about this approach. what's interesting is how little has leaked out suggesting that

there is this robust debate that people are trying to rein in the president. compare this to the way trump talks about russia and u.s. policy toward russia where trump seems to be the head on a body that's going in a different direction. trump is talking about befriending putin and de-escalating while the rest of the trump administration is trying to crack down on russia. in this case, at least his senior political appointees and people like mike pompeo, as we saw in that remarkable spectacle of his trip to riyadh, seem to be on board with the idea that the u.s. strategic relationship with saudi arabia is too important to be sacrificed over one individual. so maybe there are complaints about trump's tone and the optics of pompeo's trip. but as a matter of policy, i think that people are basically on board. >> ashley parker, that would probably reflect the fact that ideologues like pompeo and

bolton and professionals like mattis are losing access to the president and people like h.r. mcmaster has been booted from the ideological foreign policy figures like pompeo and bolton. is that recognized among the staff that could be sitting on a major foreign policy crisis if as michael crowley just insinuated, any sort of dissent leaks out? and having worked in the white house, it always does. >> well, it's not just ideolo e ideologues, although bolton is a good example. he's someone whose primary concern when you sort of look at this region is iran, which is sort of the very same thing jared kushner was pushing to sort of maybe make an unsavory deal with the saudis if it helps isolate iran in the region. going back to it not just being ideologues, the people who are ascendant are also people who

sort of pledge loyalty to the president and don't break with him. and so i think what you're seeing publicly, the public faces of this crisis within the administration, which would be the president, secretary pompeo. and it is going to be the president at the end of the day who makes this decision and the people empowered in advising him are going to be the ones who largely support him and are not going to go and leak to the press about this roiling debate that doesn't exist now. the biggest debate we're hearing is from some republicans in congress like senator lindsey graham who is aligned with the president on a lot of issues. there was a time when republicans in congress viewed russia as quite a big geopolitical foe. so it will be interesting to see if republicans sort of hold this line if the president ends up going in a different direction or if like on russia they end up

falling in line behind him in the administration. >> ned price, i imagine this conversation makes your head explode. let me read something david ignatius wrote. jared kushner urged mbs last weekend to organize an investigation that could identify the culprit responsible for khashoggi's death, two sources told me. the next day after speak with the saudi king, the president sid he thought rogue killers within saudi arabia's government may have been responsible. seemingly telegraphing a fall guy strategy. now i don't know that everybody understands what life is like in saudi arabia, but there are not a lot of rogue anythings in saudi arabia under mbs, are there? >> no, there certainly are not. especially rogue elements that have what seemed to be personal connections to the saudi crown prince, muhammad bin salman. "the new york times" did an expose where over the course of years they've linked four or five individuals believed to be responsible for what appears to

be this brutal torture and killing of jamal khashoggi to muhammad bin salman directly. to bodyguards, members of the medical team. and the fact this happened inside the consulate in turkey, a well-guarded diplomatic facility in istanbul, turkey, speaks to the implausiblity of this. and it's almost like, nicolle, the president was floating a trial balloon on behalf of the saudis. he was doing the saudi government's bidding. and it was strange. earlier this week it certainly seemed like the saudis were going to soon some up with this explanation that, yes, this was the work of rogue killers. muhammad bin salman had no former knowledge of this but that hasn't materialized and it could well be the saudis saw that trump's theory that he floated was quickly shot down. that no one believed it. that it wasn't be plausible, even within a washington that is, by and large, beholden to

saudi and gulf money more broadly. so it's unclear where the saudis are going to go with this. the one thing we know is that donald trump is going to help them clear a path. >> i think that's right. jonathan lemire, you pressed the president on this and asked him, did the saudis raise this idea of rogue killers in any of your conversations? the president said, well, the concept of it, i guess. yesterday when i spoke with the father, not so much today, but when i spoke to the father, it just sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it. wow. it sounded to me like he felt like he did not do it. he did not know about it. and it sounded like, you know, the concept of rogue killers. but i don't know. so it sounds like donald trump did a little bit of branding for the saudis. he took what he felt he heard from the saudi king and gave it a brand of rogue killers. what was the president trying to say to you? >> yeah, that's exactly right. he sort of said it was conjured up. he didn't say the king told him

that. he didn't quite say how that idea was formed. but he's the one who delivered it and certainly said it publicly. what we're seeing is we've heard in the last couple of days really double down on these ties the u.s. has with saudi arabia and the idea he's in no rush doesn't want at all to break them. he said that in a cable interview he did saying that he does not want to separate the u.s. from saudi arabia. he has been very explicit about the economic impact he fears would be here in the united states if suddenly the relationship with riyadh would change, even though, as ashley said, some of the closest republican allies have urged him to do that, to say mbs is not a trustworthy character. i asked him yesterday if he did trust him, and the answer was, yes. they have said they're not involved, and he seemed to say he believed them. it was very reminiscent of what he said about vladimir putin when he first asked him -- one of their first meetings last year in vietnam, i believe it was. he said, did you ask him about the election interference and

putin believes it. putin said he denied it and he believes it and that was good enough for him. remarkable echoes of that yesterday. this is something where it's very clear that there is, you know, there could be a moment where he is sort of boxed in. if there's even more evidence that suggests that what happened -- that this journalist was murdered in this consulate but it seems to be, people i've talked to, that if as long as the king or mbs personally aren't implicated, that that won't change the relationship with riyadh. >> ned price, let me play you what current secretary of state mike pompeo had to say about the role that facts -- facts, cold-hard facts play in any of this. >> told me they were going to conduct a thorough, complete, transparent investigation. they made a commitment to hold anyone connected to any wrongdoing that may be found accountable for that, whether they are a senior officer or official. >> did they say that mr. khashoggi was alive or dead?

>> i don't want to talk about any of the facts. they didn't want to either. and that they want to have the opportunity to complete this investigation in a thorough way. >> ned, have you ever seen an american diplomat sort of used as a prop the way mbs used pompeo yesterday? and have you seen this so inv t inverted? i'm struck by the fact they didn't save all of the, you know, covering each other's behind for the private meeting and speak as america's, you know, any sort of moral leadership that this country may still possess. i'm not sure how much we have left at this point in the trump presidency, but are you surprised there wasn't an utterance of getting to the bottom of what could be the grisly murder of a u.s. resident that all he did was sort of shill for the saudis coming out of that meeting? >> i think one of my former colleagues may have put it best when she said the fact the saudis didn't want to talk about the facts, that's to be expected. the fact that secretary pompeo himself didn't want to talk about the facts, that's a

travesty. it looks like he was sent to riyadh, precisely as you said, to shill for the saudis. it was a decision. it was not something that would happen. it was a conscious decision on the part of the white house to allow press access to that meeting between muhammad bin salman and the secretary of state. and when you -- what you saw from that press access was all smiles, all handshakes. no sign of any indication or any indication that there was a rupture or at least pressure in the relationship. and this is after days that the turks have slowly dribbled out evidence that they have. in watching this, you almost get the impression that this is either the most hand-handed cover up in the history -ups on the part of the saudis or they just don't care because they know the triumph administration will always have its back. you saw the cleaning crew just before turkish investigators. two planes that traversed

multiple countries with operatives with a bonesaw, individuals connected to muhammad bin salman. it may be the saudis knew all along they'd be caught and knew all along as we have seen at least heretofore that the trump administration would be with them every step of the way. and what pompeo's visit to riyadh underscored is that we haven't seen any rupture and it's unclear if we will. >> i spoke to a former intelligence official who said -- i asked him why would mbs have done this? and he said simply because he can. michael crowley, ned price and ashley parker, thank you for starting us off. donald trump grasping for credit i the midterm goes his way and already dumping the they do not. with friends like these, what could go wrong in three weeks? and betting on beto. how one of the best-funded campaigns is turning texas into a must-watch state. all those stories coming up.

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a vote for morrisey is a vote for me. >> a vote for marsha is really a vote for me. and a vote for cindy is a vote for me. and a vote for steve is a vote for me. remember this, a vote for david is a vote for me and our agenda to make america great again. i'm not on the ballot but in a certain way i'm on the ballot so please go out and vote. >> it's like madlibs. a vote for insert republican name here is a vote for me, donald j. trump. that is unless the democrats do some winning in the midterms now just 20 days away. here was the headline after an

oval office interview wuths the associated press yesterday. president trump tells ap he won't accept blame if gop loses house. trump took exception to that headline saying ap headline was very different from my quote and meaning in the story. they just can't help themselves. fake news. but our colleagues at the associated press have receipts in the form of an interview transcript. if republicans were to lose control of the house on november 6th or a couple days later, depending on how long it takes to count the votes do you believe you bear some of the responsibility for that? trump says, no, i think i'm helping people. i'm 48 and 1 in the primaries and actually it's much high thaern that because i endorsed a lot of people that were successful that people don't even talk about. but many of those 48 were people that had no chance in some cases. joining us is robert costa, "washington post" national political reporter. eddie, chairman of the center

for african-american studies, and charlie sikes, host of the daily standard. mark liebovich. and author of the number two best-selling sports book in america on "the new york times" best seller list. congratulations. >> keep going. >> msnbc contributor jonathan lemire who conducted that interview is still with us. you conducted the interview at the center of the latest trump twitter fake media wham bam, thank you ma'am. take us through it. >> the associated press stands by the transcript. >> of course you do. >> the question is certainly there. we asked if he would share some blame if the republicans were to lose at least one house in congress. he responded with the first word being no. now it's certainly true that the president has been working very hard out there. that he has been rallying multiple nights a week he's going to a western swing tomorrow. many more in the next 20-odd days before the election.

he is certainly -- sort of a slow realization to him, but how much his political fortunes are tied to what happens in the midterms. people around him are actually growing a little more optimistic. certainly bullish in the senate. they feel confident republicans will keep control of the senate and maybe pick up a seat or two. in the hour, they recognize they're the underdog. they are facing headwinds which prompted our question to the president yesterday. but he had no interest in repeating what barack obama did back in 2010 when the democrats took a beating at the polls and he owned it. he said that's partially my responsibility. i'm leader of the party. he got shellacked. and this president wanted nothing to do with that. it's an ultimate trump construct to embrace the winning and disown any chance of losing. >> robert costa, before president obama gracefully took responsibility for his party's midterm losses, i think both midterms during his two terms. george w. bush did the same in 2006 when his party lost many,

many seats and lost control. what is it about this white house that they can't impart on donald trump any sense of history or any sense of -- even though a president -- the answer to that question, having been a press secretary, is the president's party always struggles in midterm elections. other than three times in american history, they always lose many, many seats. but he seems incapable of offering any sort of wider frame than, you know, me good, you bad. >> the president can couch his language about the midterms however he chooses to do so. but the reality, and administration officials would acknowledge this, is the election in november is going to be a referendum on president trump. his party is totally in the grip of this outsider president and they're running with him and relying on him to turn out the vote, especially after the kavanaugh confirmation. to use those grievances about the changing culture, the democratic party to get that base out. and you see the president's rallies. it's all about the president, much more even than some of these candidates. >> charlie sikes, any dangers,

any flashing yellow lights or red lights for you in that analysis? i think it's right but it seems like they're owning all of the baggage and none of the gold-plated flairs and flourishes. >> the ultimate donald trump construct. this is the way he runs his businesses. we'll probably have this divided result. we're a divided nation. watch. if the republicans hold on to the senate, which is likely, watch the trump white house will talk only about the senate. it will be like what house? really? did this actually happen? so i do think that you'll be having the two americas talking about one success and one defeat but donald trump never takes responsibility for failures. he never will. this is the way he is wired. this is his history. and that's not going to ever change. >> there's also something funny that goes on. people romanticize the relationship that trump has had with the republican-run house and senate. it's not like they got that much done. we were talking about the kavanaugh nomination. but it took them a very long

time to do anything on health care. the tax cuts poll terribly. they haven't governed. >> right. remember at the beginning of his administration, he was very antagonistic to folks in the house and blaming them for stalling the agenda. blaming paul ryan. mobilizing his forces to unseat paul ryan. what's interesting here is he's going to hit a reality wall. and that is that the perfect storm that allowed him to be elected in 2016, whether it's russian interference, whether it's hillary clinton's campaign, those elements aren't present. what we have, i think, is the trump effect. and the trump effect isn't just simply the excitement of the individual basis of the party. it's actually what his presence will do for the unlikely voter. so you have folks that say, obviously the system is broken. i can't do anything about it. and then you'll have those folks who will say, i can't stand by and not do anything. so the wild card here is the unlikely voter that could really change the outcome of things.

>> although i would say that -- i mean, we are -- the last few midterms have been disastrous for the incumbent president going back to bush in 2006. one after another. you could argue that president trump is -- he's obviously very different. he is doing what politicians do in a very sort of extreme way, which is to accept all credit and accept no blame. but, look, i mean nothing else has worked. we had the thumping in 2006, the shellacking. did 2014 have a name? it should have. you get the sense that if things don't go well for the republicans in november, donald trump is not going to come out and have some name for what happened. we'll dress this up the way he does. but ultimately, yeah, it's a divided nation. and i think that he -- i think we know exactly what's going to happen no matter the result. we know how he'll react. this isn't a surprise. >> robert costa, let me throw two stats out there. people that have to live in more reality than the leader of the free world. democrats have raised 252

million. republicans, $172 million and the gop consultant was quoted in politico saying we're getting our asses kicked. nothing else to say. that sounds like the complex nuanced analysis that i hear from most of my friends who still run races in washington. >> when you talk to republican consultants they say the best thing they have going for them is the economy. that the economy in the mind of some voters who may not be paying attention to each tweet and every scandal and controversy with this administration. and they feel pretty good. of course, wages could be higher for most people and they feel wages are stagnant. but the economy's overall health is seen as a benefit to a republican party that's been outraised by the democrats that can't match the democrats on voter enthusiasm and many of these critical states. but they have a president, despite all of his unorthodox behavior, his controversy, his handling of the khashoggi episode, to everything else, the economy is where it is and

that's where the candidates running in the philly suburbs or columbus, ohio, suburbs, that's what's going to keep them in their seat if they do survive. >> i want to read you -- i talked about -- i questioned the president's grasp on american presidential history and want to put it to you now. this is from jonathan lemire's interview. trump showing off his list of accomplishments. you go point after point, each point is a major event but you just take a look. confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration. i'll give him $100 if he can name five. soon it will be more than any administration in history. who is the one, who is the one president that percentagewise has done better than me? there's only one. george washington. it's like something my 6-year-old would say. >> it would be interesting to have the time and the patience just to have an interviewer say, can you explain that? lesley stahl -- there was a lot of that in the interview. and we have it here. but what's interesting is that he takes so much credit for the

judges. like you get the sense that -- when there are judge vacancies, it's basically a stroke of luck. you wait for two supreme court justices to retire, right? that's why he is getting credit for this great achievement. and he has a list from the federalist society and he picks one. >> don mcgahn got them all through. >> but this is the most important issue for the conservative base, and he understands that and knows there are a lot of republican voters that will forgive almost everything else as long as they get those judges. >> how did he screw that up? here's a liberal judge. it's impossible to screw up. >> i see stuff like that and think about what i would do in the column if one of my students acted that way. >> what would you do? >> that. i would just kind of stare. because it's really dumb. i mean -- >> ignorant. >> it's not just simply ignorant. it's really dumb. and part of what we -- i'm

thinking about richard hoff stetter's classic pulitzer prize-winning bock on antiintellectualism in the united states. it seems it's metastasized and become embodied in the person who occupies the white house from this comment to the comment about climate change. you just kind of say, wow, this is just not smart. >> the death of thinking in the republican party. we watched it and wept. beto goes there. turning to liei ing ting to lyi. we'll show you the highlights from last night's debate. don't go anywhere. where. this is not a screensaver. this is the destruction of a cancer cell by the body's own immune system, thanks to medicine that didn't exist until now. and today can save your life. ♪

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senator cruz is not going to be honest with you. he's going to make up positions and votes that i've never held or never taken. he's dishonest. it's in the president called him lyin' ted and it's why the nickname stuck. >> the old enemy of my enemy becomes my friend.

beto o'rourke dusting off "lyin' ted." the latest polling has him down seven points at the moment. perhaps desperate times, desperate measures. today o'rourke is up on the texas air waves with three new negative ads targeting cruz. it's a shift from his previous ad strategy where he stayed mostly positive. here's the hope for democrats that something that may not show up in the polls yet is a record number of people registered to vote. 15.6 million people. robert, jonathan and the panel are back. robert costa, you are tweeting about this today what you're seeing in turnout in georgia. this is the variable, right? the known/unknown. midterms are predictable and we talk about what we think is going to happen because we make predictions and assumptions about turnout. but if democrats can grow the pool, can move turnout to a general election presidential-like year, they could have better odds in races like the one in texas and

perhaps even georgia. >> yet the politics in a state like texas, it's so entrenched. and that state has moved republican over the past few decades with karl rove and george w. bush. and beto o'rourke in a tough position. a lot of republicans in texas said, wait a minute, is this guy really for us. could we support him for re-election. he's slowly made his way back to president trump and has recovered his political capital in texas with the gop. >> are there any voters, any, you know, we look at independents, we look at women. we look at this group that swung for trump. i interviewed a bunch of two-time obama voters who voted for donald trump in states where the economy was a big deal. any softening in trump's base among the voters that may be open to somebody like beto. >> there certainly are. i was just down in texas and saw

beto o'rourke. you wonder if the administration's handling of that, the congressional response, was appropriate. the challenge for democrats is how much does kavanaugh stay at the forefront of voters' minds a month ahead of the election, three weeks ahead of the election with the other issues popping up like khashoggi and the economy and other things. >> the other thing about ted cruz, inside the republican ranks, these loathed. he's not even a popular republican. and the ads seem to get at that more bravely than they have in the past. let's watch. >> a triple meat whataburger liberal? what does that even mean, ted? everybody i know in texas likes whataburger. >> just as a consumer, i'm a big fan of eating white castle burgers. i like their little burgers. ca

within 900 miles of texas, ted. maybe up in canada, huh? but not in texas. >> political ad paid for by ftc pac. >> come on, ted. >> it's dark and it's a dog whistle of its own but it may be effective. >> the white castle strategy. i do think -- look. i think ted cruz was sort of -- could have been upset. he still could be upset. i think beto o'rourke has been hurt by the nationalization of him. the celebrification. it's raised him a lot of money and gotten him a ton of attention but he's turned into a liberal cause celeb. i think it's a big favor. >> that is exactly right. >> beto o'rourke became the celebrity candidate as opposed to a senate candidate in texas,

and texas is still texas. you'll raise a lot of money nationally when you come out in favor of gun control legislation. but if you're running for office in texas -- >> let me push back on this. when the national media focuses on the candidate, it's not always helpful but it's often because they're doing something better than anybody else. there are things he's doing that aren't just part of a national story. he's a very effective, very good candidate and very popular in parts of texas where democrats usually don't have a fighting chance. >> he's a rock star. 50,000-person rally, that is amazing. but again, you know, you don't change the nature of the campaign and, with all the money he's raised, the question is, has he sucked some oxygen out of other democratic campaigns in more winnable states? >> listen, this is a problem for democrats. you can't believe democrats are not raising enough money and then attack democrats for raising too much money. they can't win for -- >> the focus on texas has been

wishful thinking. >> professor de soto this morning on "morning joe" echoed something in your lead. she said the poll data is not reflected. she thinks it's going to be within the -- right now they are running neck and neck. >> because of the turnout model. the $38 million he's raised is being deployed to turn out those unlikely voters. about 1.6 million folks they've registered. so part of what we need to see here is that beto o'rourke is exciting people who we don't ordinarily think are the people who are going to participate in the electoral process. ted cruz is vulnerable. and i think we're in for a surprise. if we rely on the traditional logic, if we follow the script of the consultants, we're going to find ourselves -- >> we don't know anything. >> back in 2016. this midterm is going to signal a complete political realignment. if not, then i'll just reach for my jamieson bottle.

>> jonathan lemire, what is the president's -- you know, i understand the bluster and if we do well, i get the credit, if we lose, it's not my fault. what is the president's state of acceptance that if he loses the house, every aspect of his administration will be under investigation in 21 days? >> we asked him about this yesterday because you know it's a familiar chorus from people around him. his white house staff and outside advisers who are very concerned about this. the idea of the democrats say capturing the house. there may be impeachment talk. they're not too concerned about that, but the power of the subpoena and investigations. we asked the president about that yesterday if he felt he was prepared. not only did he say he was. he almost welcomed a bring it on. like they'll do what they need to do and i'll do what i need to do. that may be suggesting they'll go to war and there won't be any kind of cooperation, but there is a sense of reality here that if the democrats get the house, things will fundamentally change

in the building behind us. they are more confident on the senate, but ted cruz is a little bit of a worry spot. they're heartened by the recent polls but on monday, president trump is going to texes too have a rally for ted cruz. ing too that you would not repuo do v to have to do to go to texas. it's not at the largest stadium he could find. instead a modest 8,000-person arena but he'll be there. it will be an electric moment. he's two have a complicated history dating from the cleveland convention. all the attacks donald trump has charged against ted cruz from his wife's appearance to suggesting his father had something to do with jfk's and lyin' ted has always been my favorite donald trump nickname. >> does the president play the same way in all of these close races? is he -- have they all sort of swallowed the pill? i won't call it poison. some of them probably like it.

are they all running as mini-trumps in their own congressional districts or any races they've tried to take a half a step away when he calls a woman a horseface or when he mimics in a rally an alleged victim of sexual assault? is there anyone that's taken a half a step away from him that you'll be watching in three weeks? >> those who have taken it away. moderate swing district outside of philadelphia. he needs to speak out on president trump when he makes those kind of comments. but lou barletta, very much running as a mini trump. so are other republicans running across the industrial midwest and the mid-atlantic because that's the way to have your coalition. president trump's changed the voter coalitions. if you look at beto o'rourke, stacey abrams in georgia, they believe the democratic electorate is so excited about this year about the possibility of toppling the republicans in the house, of challenging president trump, that they don't need to pitch the center as much in the way democrats would in

previous cycles. they can rouse their own democratic base. >> robert costa, thank you for spending some time with us. when we come back, move over low-level george. it's now low-level michael cohen. what the president said about his former fixer in his under oath testimony. stay with us. ♪ ignition sequence starts.

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♪ that's gillette clear gel. it goes on clear and keeps you fresh all day. and it doesn't leave white marks on your shirt. gillette clear gel antiperspirant. donald trump for the first time answered a question about his former attorney michael cohen's plea deal in his interview with the ap yesterday. and just like cohen flipped on his former boss, trump turned and and flipped on cohen. cohen testified under oath in court that you directed him to commit a crime. did you, sir? trump responded, totally false. it's totally false. the ap followed up. so he's lying under oath? trump answered absolutely he's lying. michael cohen was a pr person who did legal work, very small legal work.

he represented me very little. very low level. for a low-level employee, trump was angry when cohen's offices and hotel were raided back in april. >> it's a disgrace. it's a real disgrace. it's an attack on our country in a true sense. >> i'm not sure jonathan lemire it's an attack on the country when your low level pr guy flips on you. is it? >> no, probably not. that's not who michael cohen was, of course. yes, he was not a lawyer in the traditional sense for the then candidate and celebrity businessman donald trump. >> he was dirtier than a lawyer in a traditional sense. he paid off affairs and porn stars and playboy playmates. >> he did those things. and he also was in a sense a pr person. his fixer. he was certainly someone who was intimately involved with donald trump and the trump organization. he is someone who knows a lot about the inner workings of the business and the now president's private life. yes, when i asked him yesterday,

this was the most direct he's been asked about this moment. and very sort of defiantly suggested cohen was lying. what he said was absolutely false. this meant that cohen was lying under oath whichoath, which has legal ramifications. and we saw what he's continued to do when anyone sort of runs into trouble. he tries to minimize their relationship to him. he's done it with cohen before. there's been a slippery slope of michael cohen's job description till now, between him and, say, rudy giuliani, who suggested he was just a lower level underling. paul manafort was his campaign chairman, ran the 2016 convention in cleveland. by the time that trump and other members of the administration sort of finished talking about him, it's like they barely new the guy when he himself was found guilty on that same day when michael cohen pleaded

guilty and pose as real threat certainly to this presidency given how much time michael cohen is spending with investigators. >> i'm not a lawyer, but i'm guessing if you are trying to show your value to robert mueller, you don't lie under oath when you're pleading. >> no, nor with the government have relied upon that for the official finding in federal court. we haven't been talking about the mueller investigation for a couple of months now and because of the break. that's going to be coming back in if, in fact, the democrats fail to take the house or fail to take the senate. this is not going to be status quo. this is going to be a much trumpier house and senate and i'm thinking the president will feel so embolden, he'll shut this down. the only way we're ever going to find out what happens is if this investigation goes ahead and if you have a congress that's willing to hold the president accountable, if the midterms go

donald trump's way, just look for him to shut all of this down. >> i want to read you lanny davis' response to donald trump accusing his client of lying under oath. he said the president should be worried. we have heard audiotapes of michael cohen's recordings of donald trump. >> i'd much rather hear that tape if it exists than hear what lanny davis might threaten about it. if there are tapes, that would be nice to hear. >> but everybody walked around with their finger on the red record button around donald trump and we know why. >> i think if there's tape, great. donald trump is in this weird power dynamic here in which he is accusing basically michael cohen of committing another federal crime, which would be

lying under oath. donald trump has refused to go under oath because he's not talking to robert mueller. >> because his lawyers think he would lie under oath. >> perhaps. that's what we hear. >> that's what they say on the sunday shows. >> right, on the shows. from the bully pulpit the president can say this to a reporter and he can basically do it with impunity and people who support him will probably believe it. he's not going to say that under oath. there's an imbalance of power between his word and michael cohen's word, which can be reversed if he's taping this. >> it's circular. the president isn't under oath when he's talking to jonathan, but he won't go under oath because he can't talk without lying, say his lawyers. that is the position of everyone that represents him in the mueller probe. i want to play don jr. being asked about the russia investigation. >> reporter: when you're out here on the campaign trail and you talk about this, what's the

reaction that you guys get? >> honestly, no one has asked about this in two years. everyone has known it was nonsense. it was a big catalyst because the media needed it to be true. they needed something out there to say this is why trump won. >> the media did not fire comey or hire mueller. what's he talking about? >> we're going to find out shortly what bob mueller as. we should do this as a public service announcement, that nobody know what is he has. we don't know what this evidence is going to show, but it's a lot more than anybody will know. but this president with his alternative realities has really proven his ability, though, you know, to create these alternative -- there's nothing here to see, there's nothing here to see. just take the saudi arabia issue. he says he didn't do it. well, he must not have done it. this ability he has to sort of

gaslight the entire country or just wipe away whatever evidence you have is one of his super powers. but we're going to find out after the midterm elections. we're going to learn a lot more than we know right now. >> jonathan, the president's answer, you asked him about his son, donald trump jr., and the way they talk about him and the way he talks, it's like a metal detector. it's the sound of some anxiety around questions around don jr. and the mueller probe. >> there have been a while and people around the president. trump himself denied it. we reported he was very anxious about where it could go next. he was nervous, i wonder if that's going to be don jr. next. we asked him about it next. he amusingly referred to donald trump jr., who is a grown man and father of five as "a good

young boy." he also said if don jr. did something wrong, i'd tell him he's wrong, i'd be lived. it's very different from it comes from a foreign power. he suggested it's further prove of his innocence that there was no second meeting, that nothing else came of it. there's still anxiety in the west wing around don jr. >> thank you for spending the hour with us. we have to sneak in our very last break. neak in our very last break originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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eddie. >> with all this stuff happening in the world, the transactional evidence with saudi arabia, what's happening with climate change, we have an opportunity come the midterms to really have an impact on the direction of this country because it feels deep in my gut that we're experiencing the twilight of this moment. we have to do something.

>> i know 60% of americans that feel that way, not the 40% that are excited by the government. >> my thanks to you, eddie. and mark, your new book. what is it? >> it's the number two "new york times" best selling book ins sports category. but if i leave out sports, i just say number two but have i to be accurate. >> "mpt daily" starts right now. >> just ask liebovitz who does number two work for. thank you, nicolle. if it's wednesday, midterm meets the road. good day, everybody. m