just a sitting member of the u.s. senate endorsing jailing of his political opponent. cruz went on to see journalists would be responsible for covering that comment rather than his comment about taxes. >> and this is the party of due process. it really is. it's so easy to worry about all of these things that are going on, but it really is dangerous and it is a violation of due process. and for them to jut talk about locking people up, so dangerous. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, october 24th. along with joe, willie and me, we have historian, author of the soul of america and rogers professor of the presidency at vanderbilt university john meachum. he is an nbc news and msnbc contributor. professor at princeton university, eddie glaud jr.er

and washington anchor for bb c r world news america caddie kay is with us. >> john, there is so much the to talk about. it is so easy to get distracted. but i want to for a second talk about the fact that i think a lot of americans agreed with the republicans that brett kavanaugh deserved due process. you just can't say some guy did something and have nobody there verifying. have one story after another story after another story coming out and not a single person to corroborate. and i think a lot of americans said, wait a second, that's not right. that doesn't fit my idea of fair play. somebody should be able to face the accusers, there should be evidence, etcetera, etcetera. that's a way, we're a country with a rule of law. then a week later, you have republicans running around saying lock up their political opponents. now, i know they think this is all funny, but it's really not.

and it smacks of what happens in south american and banana republics and its goes against the very process that they were preaching about just a couple of weeks ago. >> it's always funny until somebody's eye gets put out the by the constitution being thrown around. you know, i think the -- due ross and rule of law is actually arguable hadly the oldest angelo american insight. it goes back to magna carta. and it's serious. and you're right, i think people think that it's sort of cute to do this and it's part of the professional wrestling nature of politics right now. and it's somewhat entertaining, he's up there on a high school

stage and he's rolling around. i think you can tell, maybe he said it before, that he only said it in that moment because he was getting a reaction. but it's not funny. and it's something that -- remember the book about 20 years ago about why americans hate politics. increasingly, this is why americans hate anything about public life. and i think that's one of the long-term costs that we will have to deal with long after this particular fever breaks. >> and this is -- we talk about things happen. the calling for the jailing of political opponents that is just so far outside the mainstream of constitutional norms and american political thought that you now have it as a punch line for one political party. usually it's aimed at women. >> and we have recovering the murder of a washington post columnist, a journalist, and the

way the president frames that is fascinating and frightening, as well. yesterday we told you about the extraordinary number of lives that the president has resorted to in the final two weeks before the midterms. from false claims about the migrant cara van to imaginary r riots in california. it turns out many republicans in the house and senate are being less than generous, to put it kindly, in their attempts to get votes when it comes to the issues of health care. >> another way to put it, thi they're lying. >> the popularity of obamacare scoring higher than the republican tax plan by 9 points and republicans want in on that, never minder their repeated attempts to kill the law. they tried to kill the law. florida's rick scott becomes the latest in a string of

republicans to claim they support forcing insurers to cover pre-existing conditions, a key protection of obamacare. >> i support forcing insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. >> i support enforcing insurance companies to cover all pre-existing conditions. >> kevin cramer voted for guaranteed coverage for pre-existing conditions. >> i'm taking on both parties and fightinger for those with pre-existing conditions. >> everyone agrees we're going to protect pre-existing conditions. >> i do protect folks with pre-existing conditions. >> republicans will always protect americans with pre-existing conditions. >> willy, oh, my god, they're

all lying. let's just start with rick scott in florida. i will always cover fight for pre-existing conditions. did you know he's in charge of the head to make sure insurance companies do not have to cover pre-existing conditions. all those other republicans, you know what they did, as well? they also are either suing to make sure that insurance companies don't have to support pre-existing conditions or they voted in congress to make sure that insurance companies don't have to pay for pre-existing conditions. they're all lying through their teeth. >> amazing. >> this is very simple. >> it's unbelievable. no shame. the death of shame. >> everyone you just saw there

is telling a lie to the voters who they want to vote for them. there are 18 states involved in a multi state lawsuit to appeal obamacare. obamacare protects people with pre-existing conditions and bans insurance companies from denying them coverage or charging them more for coverage. rick scott is the governor of the state of florida. >> the governor. >> when pressed on this he said it's actually just the attorney general, pam bondi who is performing this lawsuit as if he has no say in the master as the governor of the state whatsoever. he also in 2010 ran his governor's campaign on repealing obamacare. so he means it when he says he wants to repeal obamacare. don't believe the ad. >> it is really -- eddie, good lord. this is -- we talked about lying yesterday. as my grandma would say, i thought we had already given gracious plenty in the terms of examples. but when you have somebody like rick scott, you have other governors, you've got all of

these people that have voted, you know, dean hiller, i'm from pre-existing conditions. no. it's just -- they're lying so bad. >> yeah, joe. >> i guess they think that donald trump can do this and get away with it. every one of these guys have voted against pre-existing conditions or are suing to stop insurance companies from having to deal with pre-existing conditions. ted cruz, lying ted is -- what did donald trump say? he holds the bible up high and then he brings it down and lies, lies, lies. there he is in the words of donald trump, lying ted. how many times has lying ted voted to repeal obamacare and strip america of the rights of pre-existing conditions? i'm sure it's in the dozens. >> it's amazing and it connects with the opening segment around their failure and disdain for

due process. because in the lying to the american people, there's a disdain for every day ordinary people. these people can just lie to them anytime they want to. so you have folks who want to flaut the dues process and folks who really don't believe that everyday ordinary american voters are smart enough to discern when folks are lying to them. you have folks who really don't care about the fundamentals of. and every time they tell this kind of lie, it's not just simply politics. it cuts to something much deeper. they are willing to throw the basic framework of democracy out the window and in some ways they're able to throw the basic framework out the window because they lie with impunity. >> so, caddie, here is the thing. it proves two things.

you've got rick scott coming down the home stretch and he fails it after being governor for eight years, he has to lie about his record for eight years and he has to lie about supporting pre-existing conditions and all these other people. i think it shows two things. one, they're actually desperate. they're looking at their polls and they're seeing that it really hurts them that they have been trying to gut health care protections for americans and, number two, that the democrats' message is working. health care, health care, health care, which some people have mocked this week. health care seems to be drawing political blood so that is force something people like rick scott to just start lying. >> his makes this even more ee ni eniquitous. at the very time that you have all of these republicans out on the campaign trail saying i'm a firm supporter of pre-existing conditions, you actually have the white house saying yeah, but we would like more plans that

don't have pre-existing conditions, as well. we've been saying this for the last two or three years, that as we've watched the obamacare approval numbers rise, we you knew this would be an election issue and the democrats should carry on running with it. i don't think it's going to help governor rick scott too much. even if you disbelieve some of those poll ratings that have come out in the last few days, he's not doing well in the polls in the state. sudden hadly saying he's in favor of something that the whole state knows that he has tried to do away with, i don't think voters are that stupid. >> of course, so much smarter than rick scott thinks they are. give me a break. ted cruz. i know why donald trump called you lying ted. no, they have been trying again to repeal obamacare and here you have again, mika, rick scott's

own administration suing. >> yeah. >> and then you've got all of these republicans who said no, no, we don't want that medicaid money. people in their states have known for eight years that that actually actually been their deal. thief warranted to gut pre-existing conditions. they wanted to gut health care protections. they wanted to gut protections through medicaid for people in nursing homes, for -- just -- i actually, truly the most disadvantaged. and a little of middle class people struggling. >> american voters will want to know the truth themselves.

>> the cara vvan that trump is lying about, it's symbol ek. it's like that april caravan, it ended up like 11 people and like a hound dog made it to the border and tried to get across illegally. they stopped them and sent them back. >> yesterday, members of the trump administration insisted that there is evidence that middle easterners are among that caravan of migrants headed towards the u.s. from central american. >> that sounds frightening. middle easterners, huh? >> and then the president undercut those claims and admitted he had no proof. >> sarah, does the president have evidence that middle easterners are in this caravan? >> absolutely. and we know this is a continuing problem. >> where is the evidence, if any? >> well, it's inconceivable that

there are not people of middle eastern dissent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people. >> they're in the caribbean now? >> they could very well be. >> but there's no proof? >> there's no proof of anything. there's no proof of anything. but they could very well be. >> oh, my god. >> very, very existential. nothing is real. strawberry fields forever. well, actually, there is proof of some things, john meachum. there is proof and we have certifiable black and white proof here that donald trump makes the biggest fools of the people closest to them. poor mike pence. once again -- >> i don't feel sorry for him. he can make a choice. >> john meachum can explain to you that when we in the south say poor mike pence -- >> bless his heart. >> bless his heart. i don't really mean -- well, i'm going to say it anyway because i'm a southerner.

poor mike pence. he set out to make a fool of himself time and time again and donald trump ends up sawing off the limb after he walks out on it and watching him same with sarah sanders. >> they're sort of -- tophrase,e so far past where the buses run that i don't think there's any redemption. i mean, there's always redemption, but this is -- >> there's always redemption. we always believe that, too. even if you're a run away beer truck, there's always a chance for redemption in the south. >> always, always, always. has anyone benefited from being close to this man? the possible except is nikki haley. seriously, who has emerged from the trump circle with a

reputation intact or enhanced for actual reasonable conduct in the public square? full stop. >> i know someone you can't see near him and that's ivanka. she's hiding because she would not want to be even close to anything he's doing right now because then she would be asked about it and she wouldn't have an answer, especially as it pertains to women and children. >> obviously -- >> hiding. >> willie, there's -- dean powell got away with a reputation intact. >> he's asked who benefited, joe. >> nikki haley, who got away -- >> they got away unscathed. >> mika, who benefited by going on the titanic? it's kind of a hard list to draw up. >> that's a good point.

>> and willie, there were a couple of people that scurried to the life boat and got rescued. at the top of the list, though, of shattered reputations, mike pence, said it before, say it again, he will never recover from this. donald trump had will leave down and mike pence and his reputation will go along with it. >> i would say there are people in the short-term, john, who have been elevated by having been in the white house. sarah sanders is someone who now everyone knows. jared kushner was running a newspaper. now he's running middle east policy. it doesn't mean that they haven't been tarnished by it, but they've been elevated to a position in this country where they otherwise wouldn't be. >> but they've been elevated in the way kids are elevated when they're in a bouncy cat castle. there's a circus. and i think there's a long-term issue here which is we're going to miss another generation of

talent. there aren't that many of them actually working to govern. what we've seen over the last two or three weeks is the president just really rejecting that. >> i think there are a lot of people who benefit from donald trump in relation to their own selfish interests. not only the folks who work with him, but you think about all of those folks who disagree with his brashness, his racism, but who are really liking their portfolios right now, who really are benefiting from those tax

cuts. they're willing to deal with president trump because they're benefiting from him. there's a selflessness, at least to me, that seems to drive why people will tolerate someone who i think we could describe as a philosophical anialist. there is no proof of anything. >> there's a line for the trump needle point pillow at the trump library. there's no proof of anything. >> yeah. just can't prove anything and, mika, just from one lie to another and right now the big lie that donald trump is spreading is about that caravan, that frightening caravan similar to the one we saw in april that was going to come up, invade america, that frightening caravan in april that all of my friends were calling me about. and, again, i can't repeat this enough, it ended up there were like 11 people that made it to the border and tried to cross

illegally. they were caught. they were sent back home. nothing but fear tactics. but that's how donald trump is trying to justify the election of republicans and justify his first two years with a lie. >> donald trump and republicans and the people in his white house. that group of thousands of latin americans keeps moving through mexico toward the u.s. border. president trump keeps talking about them and talking and talking. what a mob, what a swarm. what a joke. trump and his right wing enablers told us the same frightening tale, joe, as he mentioned as that april cara van. do they remember? of course not. because in the ends, less than a dozen of that frightening mob of a thousand tried to cross our border illegally. they were caught and send home. six months later, trump is at it again with a twist. he's now added another lie to his racist scare tactic and that's what it is.

>> totally -- >> which he admitted on tuesday that he had no evidence whatsoever to back it up. that cara van was secretly studded with middle easterners terrorists and bank rolled by leftists. that's what he said. >> and that's not just what he said. that's what people in his white house and also people in congress were saying, that george soros was funding this. >> well, you heard pence after a long, awkward pause, try and back it up and lie, again. sarah huckabee sanders, once again, left with no choice but to defend the president's bigoted lie, a lie meant to rev up voters who are angry over illegal im investigation. in my opinion, they both have a choice. but make no mistake, trump is using these poor desperate people for pure hadly racially charged political reasons. not a word about the human tragedy of biblical proportions that caused these people to trek

north from their homes, not a word about the suffering of the children. once again, donald trump is all about lying about nonwhite people, scaring white voters and not giving a -- about anyone except himself. the question is, joe, will voters faller for it? will they fall for it? >> well, you know, i don't think they will. but i think more importantly, history will look back and americans will look back with shame that we ever had a president like this one that turned his back on the most basic -- not only the most basic american concepts. we defend our boarders and we should defend our boarders. people should only get in here legally. but you know what with? the statue of liberty, it's still in new york harbor. it's still standing for what makes this country great. out of many, that has been our

history for years and years, for over 200 years. yet what donald trump is doing is not only anti-american. i will just say this as a guy that was raised in the southern ba baptist church, at least based on the gospels that i read, the good samaritan story that i read, it's un-christ like what's going on here about using people other than yourself as political props while their children are suffering, while everybody is suffering and using them as political perhaps across the country. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we have spent this block on the issues surrounding the midterms. up next, where the key races

actually stand. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> before we get to hurricane willa, i want to show you some of the damage from the island yesterday. crazy, third week of october, we had tornados that moved through southern new england. temperatures in the 50s. not exactly what we would associate. but these were some pretty strong storms. we had our first confirmed tornado on cape cod since the 1970s. so pretty rare, obviously. so cleanup still to be done. let's get back to the hurricane. now down to a tropical depression. made landfall last night as a category 3, the.mountains of mexico tearing it apart. but that moisture is heading for texas. we have a flash flood watch for 5 million people. san antonio and austin are included in that. then this storm treks tomorrow through the northern gulf coast. friday morning, it soaks the southeast. by the time we get to friday afternoon, that rain moves into washington, d.c. by the time we get to saturday, it's a full fledged nor'easter

with a lot of heavy rain. this is 8:00 p.m. saturday. a little bit of snow is in the highest elevations. this will be mostly a rain event and wind area for areas here in the mid-atlantic. make sure if you have your flight plans on saturday in areas like new york city, all through the airports there, philadelphia and even d.c., you could have some delays and you may want to think about rescheduling that with this nor'easter expected to come up the coast friday into saturday. new york city is one of those spots that dodged the storms yesterday. new york city's coldest morning looking at a beautiful fall afternoon. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. it left behind an when environmental issue.down, it was environmentally contaminated. one of the biggest successes we had early on, was entering agreements with the epa on cleaning up the property. we're recycling over 98% of the products on site.

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miles davis. >> bean town. >> we all noted that. >> ari knows -- >> how does he keep doing that? >> -- we have the show from 6:00 to 9:00. all the more disturbing. it's like 3:10 out there. he's working out at 3:00 in the morning and in the middle of his workouts, he's calling us up. but this was just like the old killer bees scare. remember they kept telling us the killer bees were coming from central and south america and they were going to eat us alive. it never came to fruition. but there were the killer bats last night. the red sox. how about that segue. the red sox, it pretty good. >> i stayed up until 5-4 and then eduardo nunes put it away with a pinch-hit three-run home

run. we're happy with you and your world series efforts. the other analogy, the killer bees analogy would be the y2k, remember, the great threat that was going to come and wipe out the civilization. the caravan is sort of the y2k of 2018. >> there was an alzheimer's event last night. >> yeah, i was. there are 6 million people in this country that live with that. it's a devastating disease, not only to the person who has it but to the family who cares for them. i'm always happy to lend a small voice a night or two and help them raise some money for that. >> sandra day o'connor, evan thomas wrote her mother had it, her husband had it. she got off the court to take care of him. her sister had it.

there's a lot of research that needs to be done still. we have a long way to go in that battle. it does impact families. >> and sandra day o'connor left the court in 2005 to be with her husband who has alzheimer's. but she fought that entire time until now. she said she's going to step out of public life. but she's been fighting for a dozen years now to get funding. and it does work. david hyde pierce has been fighting for years. he said i remember the first time we went up, we were asking for $1 million. this year the funding for alzheimer's from the federal government will be $2.3 billion. there is progress being made there. let's talk some politics. we have steve kornacki at the table, brian kemp who is also the republican nominee for governor has been accused of voter suppression for putting the registrations of more than 53,000 voters on hold with his office. nearly 70% of them black.

in a state where african-americans make up only 32% of the population. now, rolling stone has published audio of kemp at a private event expressing concerns. >> as worried as we were going into the start of early voting was literally tens of millions of dollars that they are putting behind the get out and vote effort for their base, they have an unprecedented number of that which is something that continues to concern us, especially if everybody uses and exercises their right to vote which they absolutely can and mails those ballots in.

>> in a debate last night, kemp said he will not recuse himself as the race goes to a recount. >> do you believe you can oversee the elections while being the state's governor? would you recuse yourself if a recount is necessary? >> i took an oath of office to serve as secretary of state and that's exactly what i'm going to continue to do. >> under secretary kemp, more people have lost the right to vote in the state of georgia. they've been purged, they've been suppressed and they've been scared. this is a man who had someone arrested for helping her blind father cast a ballot. he raised offices of organizations to stop them from registering voters. that type of voter suppression feeds the narrative. it's not only about blocking the vote. it's also about creating an atmosphere of fear, making people worry their votes won't count. >> steve kornacki joins us now

along with jeremy peters. guys, good morning. steve, how can kemp not recuse himself if this goes to a recount? >> the argument he'll make is there is sort of an automatic trigger for a recount. if that happens, the secretary of state's office, he would say we saw chris kobach trying to make this argument earlier on, the secretary of state's office is not nearly as involved in that. it's more of a local matter. but obviously this issue is overtaking this race. the other thing, though, that comes to mind when you put that poll up on the screen, 48-48, the other thing to keep in mind is georgia is unique among states in that they've got this general election between a democratic and a republican nominee, but they also have a runoff provision in georgia. there was a libertarian candidate at that debate last night. if that candidate gets 3% or 4%

of the votes, this 24i7k heads to a runoff. in the modern history of the runoffs in georgia, and this would be tested this year, is sort of a surge democratic participation in the november general election has dropped off. are republicans have done well in their runoff elections. bill clinton carried the state of georgia, defeated george h.w. bush, the senate race went to a runoff, the republican won the senate race. barack obama got within two points in 2008 in georgia. they senate race went to a run i can't have. so the democrats have been keying all their efforts to the general election in november. if this thing kicks over to a regionoff, democrats need to try and replicate that a few weeks later. >> this is what makes demp so dangerous, right? that is to say he is deploying

almost all the methods at once as opposed to individual methods, whether it's voter i.d. laws, a range of things. how can he, in some ways, make the argument that he should, shall we say, preside over this election, given that kind of shadow? it would seem to test the shadow of ill legitimacy even if he wins. >> that's the question, i think, politically. what effect is this going to have? is there going to the take any undecider swing votes in the state and move this against him? is this going to have the effect, as stacey abrahams said in that clip you just played, that number, 53,000, those folks can show up at the polls and provide an i.d., they can then cast a ballot. but the question democrats are raising is is this going to have the effect of making those voters think i'm not supposed

to, it's better if i don't. does it have that kind of effect, too? >> jeremy peters, we all learn to get cynical about things like this. but even in these cynical days, it's staggering to hear as secretary of state who is in charge of voting, getting caught on an open mike saying we're in big trouble if people go out and exercise their right to vote. that, i must admit, that's a new one in terms of sheer pure cynicism coming from the person who is in charge of voting for a state. >> that's absolutely right. and we all know that there is this veneer that a lot of republicans like to put over this debate, that this is all about election integrity and the need to ensure that there isn't fraudulent voting occurring even though fraught ewe lent voting isn't a myth.

so what you have going on here is a very tr are umpian argument. and i think it's a struggle that you've seen across the country from north carolina to pennsylvania where ooeyou'ved these voting legislatures gerrymander districts in a way to preserve a majority when they are, in fact, slipping closer and closer to minority status. so i am surprised it hasn't gotten worse than this. >> and brian kemp called voter suppression a farse. everybody sit tight. we're going to come right back with some of the latest numbers in the other key races. we'll be back.

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>> welcome back to "morning joe." tell us what you found in florida as remains in the hispanic votes? >> obviously this is a group

that historically has not turned out. and the prospect has been because president trump has used the language he has bought of hispanics and his immigration policies and all of the wall. but the democrats down there are certain concerned. young voters just don't vote in midterm elections. a quarter of the population is hispanic. if they don't show up, that's a big problem. >> democratic senator john tester in the lead, a monday state university billings poll conducted by telephone found tester ahead 47% to 38% against state auditor matt rosendale. but it's a much tighter race in

the television poll. in that poll, tester has a three-point lead. steve, which one of these two? this is a race president trump has leaned on heavily. >> we don't see many polls like that second one that you just showed. the first one is a more traditional model. tester does appear to be ahead in this race. it has a democratic governor, it elected max bacchas to the senate for all those years. they also polled the congressional race which is the entire state of monday.

one congressional district for the state. the on the eve of that special election, their poll has gianfordi up by only 46 points. we talk so much about suburban districts. here is a place where trump won by 20 points and the republican congressman fighting for his political life and it may have something to do with the lingering controversy of what happened on that eve of that special election. >> and you've got some other polls from the state of georgia. one of the stories is how the state has been changing demographically. so you see the governor's race there is tied.

one area you see almost a spillover effect from that, remember this one, democrats pumped $30 million last year for that guy, john ashov. they got closes in that race and lost by just four points. handel is only leading by four points. they are seeing these are sush bushes that mitt romney carried by 20 plus points in 2012. came all the way down to trump plus one in 2016. demographic willy, it's changing and next door, very similar story. a place trump had won by 22 -- excuse me, trump won by 7, romney won by 22. you got a single digit poll taken in the race this week for the republican incumbent. we talk about these obvious targets democrats have on the map in the house. there's a whole layer behind it.

rob wouldaodall. that is a place where a couple years ago republicans would have won just like that. >> to actually see what issues voters are really focussing on there, what did you find? >> well, it's not a whole lot of what you hear from national democratic leaders, national republican leaders or the media. really. i think it goes back to the conversation you were having at the top of the hour about health care, about things that personal personally affect their bottom line. i will say, though, the one except is the cara van. this is a week ago before the caravan got overheated.

representative don bacon running in a district that's pretty split, every single question, joe, that don bacon got was about the cara van or about immigration. so this issue has permeated the republican consciousness in a way that is going to be very helpful. i think we've seen that already to the republican party. so the question is what do the democrats do? the democrats aren't talking about immigration at all. they're trying to keep things focused on health care. as they believe they should because it really is, when you talk to voters, what they care about. but this whole fraudulent notion of open boarders is being left unanswered. and it's just not true. but you won't find any democrats who want to engage trump on that and i think they're suffering because of that, because it does make them look like they don't care about illegal immigrants. >> you know, willie, david frumm

wrote an article about this yesterday in the atlantic. and his argument was pretty simple. hey, democrats just respond to this and say we don't want open boarders. we want to that people get into this country illegally, we don't think it's right that people come up to our borders and overwhelm it and we are opposed to porous borders as much as the rest of americans, but there has been no response which has allowed donald trump to lie about building a wall and lie about the impact of caravans and lie about illegal immigration and, of course, lie about all the people coming in from mexico when we still have a net negative immigration pattern there, more people going back to mexico than coming here. >> do you know what else is interesting, too, eddie, the idea behind family separation was that it was a deterrent. >> right. >> for migrants, it was a deterrent to legal migration. what happened there if you have this dangerous caravan of thousands of people invading

from the border, perhaps family separation wasn't the deterrent the president said it was. >> i think the argument that has to be made, willie, is that who are we? what do we stand for as a country? what are our values? to kind of show that this immigration policy reflects what wittman would describe as a callousness of the spirit. don't begin with the argument about illegal argument, don't begin with the argument within their frame about denying open borders, begin with the claim about who do we take ourselves to be and to begin to make a claim or to describe why these folk are leaving honduras and guatemala and how do we represent ourselves. and that doesn't mean that you are committed to open borders or you are committed to undocumented workers entering the country in, quote/unquote, illegal ways. what we are committed to is who we take ourselves to be and what the republicans are doing, what donald trump has done is

undermine a consistent standard story about the greatness of this country. now, i know a different side of america and so do these people. i think that the democrats need to put forward a positive vision of who do we take ourselves to be in contrast to what these folk are saying. >> you know, eddie, the democratic candidates who get elected the president of the united states, whether it's barack obama or whether it's bill clinton, will say, who are we? we are a nation with a big heart, we are a nation with a statue of liberty at the head of new york harbor, we are a country that has fed and freed more people in the history of this planet. that is who we are, but we're also a nation of laws. we want immigrants to come to this country. we want refugees to come to this country. we want people to send their tired and their hungry, their poor, their huddled masses, but we're still a nation of laws and

it's that balance that makes america so great. that's what democrats have to do. that's what bill clinton did. that's what barack obama did. that's not what democrats are doing today and it's not that hard to do. i mean, i don't think it's that hard to get that message out there, that, yes, we are a nation of these values, but one of those values is the rule of law. let's work better at balancing those two values. >> you know, joe, i think part of what i'm arguing is that you can make the claim for immigration policy predicated upon the values that we are committed to without stipulating to the claim that the immigration system is broken, without stipulating to the claim that shower' committed to open borders. part of what i think we have to do, that is, those of us on the left, we have to resist the framing of the issues that republicans put forward. we know republicans don't give a damn about the rule of law. that's how we opened up our segment at 6:00 this morning, right, that they don't care about the due process. they are only invoking the rule of law because they're invoking

the long standing kind of, you know, scary ghost of the barbarians at the gate. we've heard that since edmond burke. so part of what democrats have to do, i think, joe, is shift the center of the gravity of the debate and stipulate to the claim that we're committed to reasonable immigration policy, but to put forward who we actually are, a sense of who the country actually is. >> willie, do you know what you can also do if you are a democrat? you can just state the truth. >> that's true. >> you can just tell the truth and say that more people are going back to mexico than are coming to the united states and that they're just a fraction of people coming to this country illegally compared to what it was like at the beginning of barack obama's term. you could talk about -- you could talk about how illegal immigration in this country has

gone down and went down repeatedly under barack obama. it's seen a little spike under donald trump, that's why he's freaking out, but you can just tell the truth. just say this is scare mongering. americans will get it. >> tell the truth and do what you said, barack obama said years ago, he talked about the rule of law. president trump tweeted out a clip yesterday of barack obama then senator from illinois talking about the rule of law and we have to have strong borders. so there is a way through this. john opened the show with a magna carta reference, professor glaude same back with a walt whitman quote. the ball is in your court at 7:00 a.m. jeremy peters, thank you, steve kornacki thank you as well. steve's new book is "the red and the blue: the 1990s and the birth of political tribalism." coming up, the president said the killing of jamal khashoggi was bad but that the saudi coverup was the worst in history. we will have the new action from the trump administration on this ahead.

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to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain the last best hope of earth, for the sake of some half-baked spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems -- >> they have a word, it sort of became old fashion, it's called a nationalist, and i say, really? we're not supposed to use that word. do you know what i am? i'm a nationalist. okay? i'm a nationalist. you have to assume he knows what he's doing. >> why do you have to assume he knows what he's doing? what evidence do you have that he knows what he's doing? do you mean the whole white nationalist thing there? >> just over a year ago john mccain warned about spurious nationalism. on monday president trump fully

embraced it. welcome back to "morning joe," it is wednesday, october 24th. still with us we have historian and author of "the soul of america" john meacham. professor at princeton university eddie glaude, jr., washington anchor the katty kay and joining the conversation white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire and white house correspondent for pbs news hour yamiche al sent do remember. >> jonathan lemire, our worrying led to a red sox victory last night, both of us texting each other throughout the game knowing how doomed the sox were but somehow they managed to squeak by. >> we can't get swept in the world series, that was our only goal here. the bit hit was the nunez homer. i said why are they pinch-hitting with him, the

words were barely coming out of my mouth and the ball goes over the fence. yes, goodwin, good start, sale was okay, but kim ber makes me nervous as i'm sure he does you. >> willie, it all makes jonathan and i nervous. i'm just happy, i'm really happy that we won one game. i mean, that's something -- that's something that we can always -- do you know what, they can never take that away from us. >> first of all, i root for the red sox tonight even as a yankee fan, david price is a vanderbilt man. you guys have to come to terms with the fact that the red sox are a historically great baseball team. say it with me. >> i won't do it. >> historically great baseball team. wins and losses they are 17 games better than the los angeles dodgers. >> seriously, willie, don't even try that. we understand -- we understand we backed into this -- we backed into the playoff spot, we should

have been playing the oakland a's in a one-game -- we just backed into it. >> yeah. >> we got a couple lucky breaks, you know, like jb jay's ball bouncing on top of the padding in left field. it's all these freak accidents that have happened, but, like i said, with he got us a world series win. we won one game, we're happy. >> just a scrappy little bunch up in boston. >> we're just playing catch, just catch and hit, that's all we're playing. john meacham, i would guess you would say nationalism is a good starter, but probably a pretty poor finisher. >> it is. a nationalist venorates one's only people, usually a narrow slice of those people and fails to recognize the broader place of a country in the world and

also puts actual power at the center of your hierarchy -- at the top of your hierarchy of values. theres a fundamental difference between patriotism and nationalism. i think i'm right and professor glaude can speck me when samuel said patriotism is the scoundrel he meant nationalism. it's wonderful occasionally -- i will try to say this as much as possible -- that there's no proof of anything. >> right. >> which is the new trump doctrine. i think it's going to look really good on the library wall at mar-a-lago in the fullness of time. you have this admission that what the president is doing here is dealing out of a familiar blessedly not particularly american but a familiar playbook of putting identity and a very

specific kind of identity at the top of his hierarchy of values and that's why you have the anxiety about immigration. i will say quickly, the worries about immigration, that's a symptom not a cause, right? joe was talking about what democrats have to say. this is about, seems to me, enduring and now almost permanent anxiety about the stability and excess to the middle class. you are looking and basically white folks are looking for someone to blame for the fact that they feel that their opportunities have been limited and immigration is just the particular manifestation of that. >> but, jonathan lemire, you've been reporting, the associated press has been reporting, though, that this great blue tsunami that everybody had talked about now is going to be a trickle.

there's a question of whether there's going to be a blue wave at all and we just heard jeremy peters talking about how a moderate in iowa was questioned repeatedly about the caravan, i'm getting texts from friends and family members that are texting me about the caravan. they really do believe that it is on the border of mexico and it is going to be showing up at their mall somewhere in western des moines by mid afternoon. >> that's right. i mean, making predictions after 2016 seems like a bit of a fool's game but strategists, myself and my colleagues have talked to both parties suggest that, yes, the idea of the blue wave seems to have been slowing down. both parties feel like the republicans are going to keep control of the senate. the house still favors the democrats, but it could -- instead of being a landslide it could be the fate could be decided by a couple seats, it could end up being very, very close. yes, the caravan here is something that the president after seeing it on fox news, after talking to allies that are

taking some cues from people like former speaker newt gingrich has seized upon as his closing argument. it's an argument praying on fear, the hard line immigration rhetoric that he knows was so successful for him or believes was so successful for him two years ago. he told us in an oval office interview with the ap last week that this is reminding him of 2016 and part of this is this idea of the caravan which is receiving coverage on cable news, has become something that he and his supporters will rally around. they could play into that same idea of the other, the idea that here are more people who are coming to potentially change our country, take away our access to what we have always thought was the american dream, our sort of right to the american dream and that they feel like this is combined with the controversy over the kavanaugh hearings, that they think this is how they can sort of have that final sprint to the election day. >> well, i mean, for anyone who is still on the fence as to

whether or not the president is using racism to stoke fears, just keep in mind this is the man who during the campaign wouldn't say anything bad about david duke when asked face-to-face. this is the man who when charlottesville happened said there were good people on both sides. he couldn't even be on the side of the right then. and now here the president is defending his use of the world -- of the word "nationalist" and he's saying he just didn't understand the racist connotation. take a look. >> just to follow-up on your comments about being a nationalist, there is a concern that you are sending coded language or a dog whistle to some americans out there that what you really mean is that you are a white nationalist. >> i have never each heard that. i cannot imagine that. you mean -- >> never heard that expression. >> no, i never heard that theory about being a nationalist. i've heard them all. i'm somebody that loves our country. when i say a nationalist -- >> he also was a birther on

obama. yamiche, what do you think? >> i think that there are two sides of this, obviously. the president is claiming as he did, remember last time he said he didn't even know who david duke was, he didn't know that he should disavow him. there is this idea that the president tries to say that he's ignorant of the things that are so -- so clearly in your face when it comes to understanding race in this country. there are people who mix the word nationalist and patriot and i just came back from west virginia, just came back from a red district in california where people say the president say this is what i want, somebody who talks about america in this glowing sort of way, doesn't talk about the flaws of america, but there are so many people who listen to president trump and say nationalist, you know not to use that word, you know that that word is going to be seen as you you say white nationalist and i'm interviewed as a black woman white nationalists who say they are more excited than ever about president trump. they say they have never heard of a president quite like president trump who has really

they feel like espoused their ideas. this is a white nationalist telling me this. it's not as if white nationalists are trying to hide this. i think the president has settled on this strategy of fear, this strategy of misinformation as the midterm closer and it's working. i've been in districts where people are literally repeating what president trump is saying to them, saying that the caravan will be here before we know it and people will be overrun and it's simply not true. >> joe, back when we were talking to trump and he was playing the game with president obama and stoking fear and doubt about where he was born, do you remember what he said to us? he said, i know, but it's working, and we had to push back hard saying that was wrong and that wasn't who we thought he was, but he kept saying it's working, it's working. he knows what he's doing and anyone who thinks that he doesn't know what he's doing about this and he doesn't -- he isn't using racism to stoke fear, i think at this point is lying to themselves. >> actually, i remember the

exact conversation, it was at the very beginning of the campaign. >> trump tower. >> probably in august of 2015. we both were saying to him -- >> we went there to tell him to stop. >> if you ever want to be seen as a serious candidate, you've got to drop the birtherism, you have to say that barack obama was born in america and you've got to say you take him at his word that he is a christian. you will never be seen seriously if you don't do that because he was talking about it and asked, you know, like a lot of candidates, asked our opinion and that's what we said. i remember mika, you actually being very emphatic saying you have got to stop with the birtherism. you have got to tell everybody that he was born in america. i remember trump whispering under his breath, well, if i do that i will lose about 47% of the party. >> and he loved that it was working.

>> yeah. >> it was disgusting. it was really hard. it was hard to see him playing that. >> so, willie, there has always been a calculation in there. donald trump, you know, people always ask, hey, you knew trump for a decade, what was the guy like before he ran for office, and i said, well, you know, he would say things behind closed doors that, you know, were offensive in one way or in another way, but never on race. we've talked about this. al sharpton has talked about this. you've talked about this. like donald trump would go to boxing matches in atlantic city and he would be surrounded by black celebrities. he actually had a very good working relationship with a lot of -- a lot of black celebrities and we actually sort of joked about it during the campaign that people like jay-z if they were ever for hillary they would

say, well, this isn't personal against donald trump. obviously this is something -- this is something that donald trump has picked up and he's run with it for the most cynical, cynical of reasons. >> yeah, i mean, there are obviously examples throughout his past in the 1980s when he called for the death of the central park five, even after they were exonerated, he leaned on that. talking about the birtherism, i can tell you and you probably had the same experience, in the course of private conversations and debates with him, he started to believe the birther thing. he was invested in that. he had very specific questions and ideas about why a family would put an ad in the honolulu advertiser announcing the birth. who does that? he actually believed the birther thing. yes, he is a very cynical man, he is a cynical politician, his quote yesterday will live forever, i think. i don't regret anything, it all worked out very nicely, he was talking about the ted cruz

accusation about jfk and his father, but that could be a doctrine for trump. so he does use these to his benefit, the ends do justify the means, but also a lot of this lives within him. >> there is an old southern phrase often attributed to maya angelou, when people show you who they are, believe them. donald trump has showed us who he is since the election and over the last two years. look, when you say i'm a nationalist in front of that crowd, that crowd that's majority -- that's majority white, in the context of your race baiting with regards to immigration, we know that immigration law in this country has always been about race, ever since the first naturalization act in the 1800s. we know that that's the case. the idea that jonathan said that the blue wave might be a blue trickle because it's working. so we're talking about the moral character of donald trump, but by extension we're talking about the moral character of the nation. what does it mean that this is working? what does it say about who with err? this is profoundly racist and we

have these moments in the history of the country where we can actually change the course of our pattern, the direction. we can actually be otherwise, ents it seems to me we have always historically chosen to double down on a notion of whiteness. and here donald trump is putting it before us again and it seems that every single time that we do it democracy takes a body blow. so here we are in this moment where what we think is a blue wave, which i think will be determined by those unlikely voters, those nonvoters, may turn into a trickle because people are choosing to be racist, jonathan. they're choosing to act on the basis of their fear and that fear is rooted in the fact that white people think that they can't have the life that they should have as white people. >> some of the polls tightening might be the natural inclination where people come home to their parties during the stretch run

of a campaign. not everyone follows the midterms perhaps as closely as we do. the president has seized on a few issues, immigration which in many ways means race, and that is generating enthusiasm among some republicans who previously had been despondent when they saw the 2018 election go, felt this was a lost cause and now feel like they have reason to come out again. some trump supporters who were there for him in 2016 who were not traditional republican voters, the people that pollsters missed two years ago, those unlikely voters in places like florida and pennsylvania, and michigan, people who weren't being counted on in the samplings of these are the people we think will show up on election day and who perhaps wouldn't have come out because trump's name wasn't on the ballot, but now seem to be responding to the idea that this is a referendum on him and his issues, which are also in many ways the issues that they believe in, even if they don't want to admit it publicly. >> history will record 13 days from now whether this works or

not. for decades to come, for generations to come history will record whether donald trump's appeal to racism and bigotry and hatred will work or not. here is the incredible thing, that in 13 days you will have the choice to determine how history is written, more so than any election in our lifetime. this will be either a verification of who we have been or a rejection of who we have been and a determination of where we are going if we still believe that we're one nation under god and if we still believe that out of many we are one. so we can't say whether this is working or not because we won't know whether this is working or

not until you get up 13 days from now and take your family and friends to the school nearby you or the post office nearby you or a community center nearby you and vote. do you realize that? how awesome is that? how awe inspiring is that, that you, not me, not mika, not anybody on this panel, you have the power to write history and determine whether what you're seeing on tv every day works or not. you have 13 days to call your friends, your neighbors, your loved ones, whatever party you're in, whatever side you're on, however you want this election to turn out, the history of this country, who we are and who we will be will be determined 13 days from now. that's pretty powerful. katty kay, it's not just in

america where these decisions are being made, they're being made in britain, they're being made across europe, they are being made in places like poland and hungary and democracy with a small d actually does seem to be in retreat over the past few years, doesn't it? >> yeah, and i think this debate about patriotism versus nationalism is playing out in other countries, too, and other countries are watching how it's playing out hoar. it's clear patriotism if donald trump had chosen to say i'm a patriot no one would have been shocked, but it's this idea of nationalism which in this country has connotations of white nationalism and race and in europe has connotations of fascism and a takeover of power, but it's always associated with power and whether you want to grab power from other groups, patriotism is a love of your own country and your own values, nationalism has to do with taking power from other people. the other thing we started this show this morning looking at viciousness in language and it's

becoming an american export at the moment. during the course of this weekend theresa may was called upon by members of her own party to bring a noose to the next meeting that she had with them because she was entering the killing zone. that is the kind of language that we are hearing around the world in politics at the moment. i'm not saying that it's coming directly from the united states, but the kinds of language that donald trump uses, chooses to use when he gets up at rallies is fostering an atmosphere like this where people feel they can use this vicious angry language to the detriment of other people and to the detriment of our democratic processes. >> still ahead, we've talked about the midterm fight in montana, georgia and florida. up next, it's on to mississippi and a race that could make history. "morning joe" is coming right back. we've seen our discourse degraded by casual cruelty, at times it could seem like the

force is pulling us apart are the forces stronger than the forces bringing us together. we've seen nationalism distorted into nativism, forgetting the dine in aism that immigration has always brought to america. so, that goal you've been saving for, you can do it.

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my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. defam defamed, dismissed and disrespected. hurting our communities and our economy. we're better than that and i know i owe mississippi more than i can say. i worked to correct the stereotypes and attract companies and jobs to mississippi. i will give young people a greater sense of respect for themselves and others. i'm mike espy and i approved this message because i believe this mississippi and it's time to show the nation just how far we've come. >> that is democratic candidate mike espy, he was the first african-american to win a congressional seat in mississippi since reconstruction and now he's trying to become the first black senator in mississippi since reconstruction as well. joining us now nbc news correspondent cal perry who

recently traveled to mississippi and followed espy on the campaign trail. >> the african-american vote could be the difference maker in a number of these races across the country, more mike espy it's playing out on hallowed ground. >> are you going to vote? all right. you will vote for me? i'm going to help everybody, including you. >> there's something going on around the country. >> yes. >> some people say it's a blue wave. >> yes. >> is mississippi going to continue that or does it stop in mississippi? you have an uphill climb. >> it's an uphill climb, but i've climbed uphill before. >> espy is the first black since reconstruction to win a congressional seat from mississippi. >> i am excited, appreciative and humbled to be asked to serve this nation. >> so where has mississippi been, where are we going and are you -- >> we're right here on ferry street and ferry street really during the jim crow era was a black mecca of mississippi. so it's falling a little bit now into disrepair and i'm glad that you decided to have this

interview in this restaurant that has been here since 1939 because it shows where we've been and where we have to get to again with a little bit of attention, with a little bit of a concentration with someone who really cares about the economic status of mississippians and i'm talking about not just black but all mistians. i don't look at race so much as i look at economic possibilities, common ground for everyone regardless of race. >> this is very much in line with the ideas of fannie lou namer. >> are you afraid of being killed? >> i think about it sometimes. >> in what way? >> when somebody call and say, we have you located, we going to put you in mississippi river. >> talk to me a little bit about mississippi. why do african-americans need to get out and vote in this election? >> because it's important for us. you know -- >> about 40 yards away a sniper fired a single shot from a high powered rifle. >> he died for us and when he died fighting for us i don't

miss a vote. i vote. >> and we are saying to mississippi, give us the ballot. give us the ballot and we will transform the misdeeds of blood thirsty mobs into the calculated good deeds of orderly citizens. >> men know nights, i don't know if i would get back home or not and we broke the barrier and we are there now. >> we are going to make this old broke down mississippi a new mississippi. >> how do we remind the next generation of how important the sacrifices were? >> by educating them. we have to tell the stories. we have to show them the way to the poll. we have to take them. my husband put his life on the line daily, not knowing if he's going to come back home because he was trying to educate people

to vote. going on plantations at night after the boss men have gone to bed, registering people to vote. getting them to learn how to write their name for the first time. >> this race does go through a black community, i'm not contending that it doesn't. >> there's something happening in the south. there's a new south that's rising. we are not going back to the old south. this is a new south that is inclusive to everybody. >> sometimes i'm hopeful and sometimes i doubt it. but eventually it's going to happen. >> so this is a three-way race and it will be until november 6th at which point two candidates will go off until november 7th. this is our story, this is america's story, this is all the more reason to get out and vote. maybe with donald trump we had to hit rock bottom before we could rebuild, i'm not sure. >> eddie, you are a mississippi

native. the latest poll has cindy hide smith at 38, mike espy at 29, chris mcdaniel at 15. we were talking about the demographics of the state that you come from, 37% african-american population, the highest percentage of any state in the country. if there is turnout in this state mike espy has a chance. >> he said he has a steep hill to climb but he has climbed hills before. there is a wonderful line that we have to do the impossible and we have a history of doing the impossible. you know, i come from a state that its soil is soaked in blood, you know, there's fannie lu namer, i'm thinking about all of those unsung heroes and heroines that made me possible. this election is more than just about mike espy, it's about our democracy and, you know, we've been in so many ways clarion

call for it. so we will see if we turn out. if black folk turn out in the united states across these districts we can change the direction of the country and as always mississippi is a metaphor for america. we will see. we will see. >> well, i will tell you what, john meacham, black voters certainly showed up in alabama last year. i had alabama officials telling me even on election night that the turnout wasn't big enough to put doug jones over the top, but then the black belt, as it's called, across central alabama came out in numbers as high as -- they came out for barack obama in 2008 and 2012. that in and of itself one of the most extraordinary political events that's happened since donald trump was elected. >> two thoughts. one is 50 years ago, 13 days

from now, george wallace carried mississippi in the presidential election, won 13.5% of the national vote and carried five states, explicitly segregationist and nationalist platform. 50 years is a long time ago and in another sense it's the day before yesterday. the older i get the more it seems like the day before yesterday. the other thought here is, you know, what we're seeing with georgia and the secretary of state who says he will adjudicate his own election and questions about voter suppression, it's a reminder that the most significant and the bloodiest struggle in many ways was not just against jim crow and public accommodations but for the right to vote. >> exactly. >> and it's what -- and if you are in georgia or alabama or mississippi or arkansas or

tennessee, florida, this was the great struggle to the great domestic drama of the 20th century. we were able to defeat tyranny abroad more easily in some ways than we were at home. it seems to me one of the reasons i'm ultimately hoipful about the republic is that our mission is to create a more perfect union, not a perfect one, but it begins, as john lewis would tell us, with the franchise, with the vote. i think -- i think we -- i think we've -- we dismiss the gravity of those struggles too glibly sometimes and i think we are in this moment where there is such a lack of seriousness from the white house about these issues that i think ultimately, as you say, joe, it's going to be a motivator, not a suppressor. i hope so. >> it is going to be a motivator and if you look at what john lewis wrote yesterday talking

about the sacrifices that he made, john lewis saying, i have been beaten, my skull fractured, and arrested more than 40 times so that each and every person has the right to register and vote. friends of mine gave their lives. do your part. get out there and vote like you've never voted before. #vote, #goodtrouble. yamiche, so much does depend on who decides to go out and vote. what segment of america decides to go out and vote. which segments are the most motivated. that will determine our future or shape our future. >> it will absolutely shape our future. i think people, especially african-americans that i've talked to in the last couple weeks, they understand the struggle, they understand what it means to get out the right to vote and what people had to

sacrifice to get -- to allow african-americans to vote. the thing that i will say, though, is that when the president is using these nationalist terms, he's doing that because he's trying to get his people out to vote. he's trying to counter the wave that we know is coming in taerns because for more than two years people have watched the president use language that this he found to be deeply offensive and racist and then there are the people who support the president who say that's a distraction that he's not someone who is using that language, but what i will say is also this, after alabama there was this feeling that black people saved alabama, that their vote was the reason why doug jones came into office, but i think there is something that's very dangerous about that which is that there are african-americans who say don't blame the senate not going to democrats on african-americans not turning out, as if 50% of the country doesn't turn out. there are white people who watch the tv and they don't turn out and they don't get blamed when doug jones doesn't win. in this case as much as there is this importance for black people to go out and vote, there should also be the day after the

election a careful look at how we talk about black people voting because if stacy abrams doesn't win it's because a lot of white people may have turned out and not so much that black people didn't do enough. >> yamiche and cal perry, thank you for that report. we will be right back. what does it take to make digital transformation actually happen? it takes dell technologies, a family of seven technology leaders working behind the scenes to make the impossible... reality. we're helping to give cars the power to read your mind from anywhere... and we're helping up to 40% of the nation's donated blood supply to be redirected to the people that need it most. magic can't make digital transformation happen... but we can.

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focusing a lot, understandably, on the president, on the senate races, on the house races, but you're taking a closer look, actually, on some races that could really be interesting that a lot of people aren't focusing on that much, and races that could impact like, for instance, redistricting for the next decade. >> right. they say a lot. with republicans on track to keep control of the senate and maybe even the house, i've been looking at the governor's races for any signs of democratic trends and for about a decade we know that republicans have dominated gubernatorial slots

around the country, including in many of the battle ground states. i'm not the only one who has noticed the stakes in these races. the conservative "wall street journal" editorial board today says that trump's attempt to push the country to the right could be seriously undermined if democrats win back some of these state executive jobs. ohio, michigan, florida, georgia, illinois, wisconsin, iowa, nevada, maine, even kansas could see republicans swept out and new democratic governors installed. >> the impact of that would be huge. >> it would lead to policy changes, serious ones, but also it would send a message to washington and to donald trump that voters still want change, but they're looking for better healthcare, fairer tax systems, better schools. it will also impact redistricting over the next decade and democratic victories in these undercover races will make it clear that voters don't think they can get those things

from trump and a republican congress. >> wow. a lot at stake here. like you said, the redistricting could impact american politics for the next decade, so those -- i mean, those governor's races are so important, and we talked about rick scott this morning. >> exactly. >> trying to kill preexisting conditions, his administration having that lawsuit to try to kill preexisting conditions and other governors trying to stop medicaid money coming in to take care of people's parents and grandparents at nursing homes. those governor's races really, gosh, you're right, they have a big impact. >> and up next we are going to go outside the bubble to hear what voters in america's hot spots have to say about the nation's political and cultural wars. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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all right. do we have a clip from the new hbo documentary, it's called "outside the bubble" where the filmmaker takes viewers on a cross-country trip to discuss the big issues facing america? let's take a look. >> it has been said that where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit. well, i may live in liberal america, but i know that this is not the only america. so i'm bursting out of my own bubble and setting out on a pilgrimage to meet people in communities across this country where the big issues have erupted. >> it is not gun control it's god control. >> to see what we can learn from listening to our fellow americans. >> these plants do not produce enough crap to cause the climate to change. >> you should be deported. >> we are at a crossroad. nobody wants to see color, but if you are white then you are on

the down side, i guess, you know. >> we have the greatest president of all time and things are really headed in the right direction. >> so you think god put trump in office? >> i know he did. >> alexandra pelosi joins us now. good morning. >> thanks for having me. >> alabama, pennsylvania, port arthur, texas, charlottesville, sutherland springs, texas, san diego, you went all over the country when you set out on that first day what did you have in mind? what did you want to find out? >> the whole point was to show my kids -- this was a family road trip -- that we live in a liberal bubble and not all of america agrees with us. i'm not going to pretend -- i was born in san francisco, i live in manhattan, i get it, right, i was indoctrinated into the liberal cult, i get t but i know that all of america does not think the way i do and i don't want my kids to be in this tribal us versus them kind of world that they're growing up in. you know, there is this popular narrative that we are more divided, we are on the cusp of a civil war, i don't buy this

narrative and if you read john's book he will be the first to tell you america used to be -- we are not having rate riots in the streets right now, if you go out into real america and talk to people and they invite you over for dinner and you talk to trump voters and the base, you will see that there is a lot more purple out there. i know it's a very popular cable news narrative to be the red versus blue, us versus them but in the real world people are a little more i would say purple than you would be led to believe if you watch too much prime time cable news. >> if you watch cable news and look at twitter 24 hours a day you would think we are on the verge of a civil war, but if you go out and talk to people it's a little different. i bet you did find some of the distrust that some of the voters you talked to have for the media, have for light night tv, feels like the coastal elites have disdain for people in the middle of the country. what was their reaction to your project and to you interviewing them? >> i think they're just happy to be asked to the party. i mean, when do -- when does trump's base get on hbo?

they were flattered to even get a microphone in their face. there is, you know -- if you watch too much cable news, no sequence, i'm never going to be invited back here again because here i am criticizing cable news -- but there is a big business in promoting the divide and selling the guidivide. it's a good business, right? but if you go out there and talk to the base and ask them questions about themselves, i feel like there is a lot to be learned about the idea that it's not all just simple -- what is the most important issue that's dividing america right now? is it guns, is it global warming? if you talk to them, i just don't feel like there is this -- we're on the verge of this epic battle that's going to destroy the heart of america. >> so alexandra, when you talk to them, what do you think the impact, the reaction truly was

to the brett kavanaugh hearings and bringing christine blasey to the national stage and setting up this show in washington to try to prove brett kavanaugh tried to sexually assault her? do you think they felt that was kind of in sync with how they were thinking about right and left and right and wrong? >> well, i covered the women's issues in alabama in my show, so i talked to all the women in alabama after the hearings, and i have to say, it's bringing out the base for trump. it's hard for us to understand, but if you're making $7.50 an hour, you just have a different -- women, all the women told me that a woman's place is a different role. the way i look at being a woman working in manhattan is different than the way they're treated as women in the south. it's just a different approach

to their role. the bible says that the men are in charge of their household, and that's how all the women i talked to look at it. they have a different role -- they think they have a different role as a woman. and i think these issues that we think are so easy -- now, i was there during the roy moore -- i would say how can you vote for a sexual predator to be a senator, right? but they looked at it like we know that our role is to be s subservient to our man, period. it's hard for us as working women to grasp, but that's how you look at it. >> i can tell you that's not jon meacham's experience with his wife for sure. >> you have to be so careful because you can't say all women in the south think they're there to serve their husbands, that's not the way. but the diehard trump base -- when you say those kavanaugh hearings, how can they be used to drive the voters to the polls the way it's energizing their base? it's hard for us to understand.

but when i talked to the women that i interviewed, they all say, i'm getting out there and i'm supporting trump because that's just the way they view the world. it's different than the way we see the world. it's hard for us to see it that way. i'm not defending their world view, i'm just saying we have to understand they look at it from a biblical perspective that we just don't understand. >> but they -- also women in alabama and mississippi work who don't actually see their place is in the home, who think they have sons they are concerned about and saw these brett kavanaugh hearings play out and felt deeply uncomfortable about it. >> absolutely. >> did you talk to any of them? >> i was talking to the base. the whole purpose was to talk to the extreme, conservative, christian trump voter that would be energized by the brett kavanaugh. i mean, i felt like, you know, as a liberal bubble new yorker

going into alabama, i know enough people that are decent, good professors at the university that i could go interview, that they're going to think like i think. the whole point was to meet people who didn't think like i think to get their perspective. obviously, we have to be so careful not to paint everyone in the south as being this bible-banging, holy roller, i'm coming out pro kavanaugh. i'm just saying these are the people i was talking to. >> what surprised you most in these conversations? >> just how different my world view is based on where i live. and everybody i talked to goes to the same dinner parties, reads the new yorker and recites the same liberal idealogy. and how if i would walk into their house and i would say, tell me one thing you believe and i can give you a menu of everything else you believe. they're fed a steady diet of --

they get it from trump. if you believe your gun is sacred to you, i can tell you you're pro-life, you're pro-kavanaugh. it was like a menu in every household. you walk in and say, why is it so standard, this menu you subscribe to? don't you have any nuance in there? that was surprising to me, the menu. >> the film is "outside the bubble" and it debuts monday night on hbo. alexandra, thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. how many republican candidates are blaming obamacare's key provision? plus, democrats, those in the thick of it, former obama survivors join me.

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maxine waters voted yes. beto o'rourke voted no. he would not stand with him. you know, there is a double occupancy sell with hillary clinton. >> nothing to see here, just a sitting member of the u.s. senate endorsing a call to jail. his political opponent, cruz, went on to say that journalists

would somehow be to blame for covering that comment rather than focusing on his remarks about taxes. >> again, it's so important to remember, mika, this is the party of due process. remember the brett kavanaugh hearings? it really is dangerous and it is a violation of due process. for them to just talk about locking people up, it's so dangerous. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, october 24 along with joe, willy and me. we have historian, author of "the soul of america" and professor of vanderbilt university, jon meacham. he's an msnbc and nbc news contributor. and washington anchor for "bbc world news" america, katty kay is with us. >> i want to go to jon meacham for a second. jon, there is so much to talk about. it is so easy to get distracted, but i do want to just for a

second talk about, again, the fact that i think a lot of americans agreed with republicans that brett kavanaugh deserved due process. you just can't say some guy did something and have nobody there verifying that he did something, have one story after another story after another story coming out and not a single person to corroborate. i think a lot of americans said, wait a second, that's not right. that doesn't fit my idea of fair play. somebody should be able to face the accusers, there should be evidence, et cetera, et cetera. that's the way of the country rule of law. then a week later you have republicans running around saying, lock up their political opponents. now, i know they think this is all funny, but it's really not, and it smacks of totalitarian regimes, it smacks of what happens in south american banana republics. and it goes against the very process that they were preaching about just a couple weeks ago.

>> it's always funny until somebody's eye gets put out by the constitution being thrown around. i think due process and rule of law is arguably the oldest anglo-american insight. it goes back to the magna carta. you're right, i think people think it's sort of cute to do this and it's part of the wrestling nature of politics right now. it's somewhat entertaining, i guess. everybody says stupid things and he's up there on that -- it looks like a high school gymnasium stage and he's rolling around. you can tell -- i think you can tell -- maybe you said it before -- that he only said it in that moment because he was getting a reaction. but it's not funny, and it's something that -- remember the book about 20 years ago,

e.j.deon wrote the book about why americans hate politics? increasingly, this is why americans hate anything about public life, and i think that's one of the long-term costs that we will have to deal with long after this particular fever breaks. >> and we talk about, mika, this happened before. this has not happened before. donald trump called for the jailing of political opponents that is so outside constitutional norms and american political thought that you now have it as a punchline for one political party, and usually it's aimed at women. very interesting. >> and you look at the recovering murder of a "washington post" columnist, a journalist, and the way the president frames that is fascinating and a pappalling as well.

we have false claims about the migrant caravan to imaginary riots in california to dreamed-up tax cuts on the horizon. it turns out that many republicans running for the house and senate are also being less than generous, to put it kindly, in their attempts to get votes when it comes to the issue of health care. >> another way to put it, they're lying. >> yeah. and they're following the president's lead. a recent fox news poll shows the popularity of obamacare scoring higher than the republican tax plan by nine points. and republicans want in on that. never mind their repeated attempts to kill the law. they tried to kill the law. florida's rick scott becomes the latest in a string of republicans to claim they support forcing insurers to cover preexisting conditions, a key protection of obamacare. >> i support forcing insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions. >> i support forcing insurance

companies to cover all preexisting conditions. >> i'm fighting to protect preexisting conditions. >> kevin cramer voted for guaranteed coverage for preexisting conditions. >> i'm taking on both parties and fighting for those with preexisting conditions. >> everyone agrees we're going to protect preexisting conditions. >> i'm committed to protecting people with preexisting conditions. >> i do protect folks with preexisting conditions. that's just absurd to think i wouldn't do that. >> in wisconsin, preexisting conditions are covered. and as long as i'm governor, they always will be. >> republicans will always protect americans with preexisting conditions. >> willie, oh, my god, they're all lying. let's start with rick scott in florida. he sits there, i will make sure that insurance companies have to pay for preexisting conditions. willie, did you know that he's in charge at the head of a

lawsuit to do what? he's suing to make sure that insurance companies do not have to cover preexisting conditions. all those other republicans, you know what they did as well? they also are either suing to make sure that insurance companies don't have to support preexisting conditions or they voted in congress to make sure that insurance companies don't have to pay for preexisting conditions. they're all lying through their teeth. >> it's amazing. >> it's unbelievable. >> this is very simple. everyone -- >> the death of shame! >> everyone you just saw there is telling a lie to the voters who they want to vote for them in their respective states. there are 18 states involved in a multi-state lawsuit to repeal obamacare. you might remember that obamacare protects people with preexisting conditions and bans insurance companies from denying them coverage or charging them more for coverage.

rick scott is the governor of the state of florida. >> the governor. >> when pressed on this, he says it's actually just the attorney general pam bondi who is performing this lawsuit, as if he has no say in the matter whatsoever. i would also add in 2010 he ran the governor's campaign on repealing obamacare. so he means it when he says he wants to repeal obamacare. don't believe the ad. >> it is really -- eddie gloud, good lord. we talked about lying yesterday. as my grandma would say, i thought we had already given gracious plenty in the term of examples. but when you have somebody like rick scott, you have other governors, you got all these people that have voted. dean heller, i'm for preexisting conditions. no! it's just -- they're lying so bad. i guess they think that donald trump can do this and get away

with it. every one of these guys, every one of them have voted against preexisting conditions or are suing to stop insurance companies from having to deal with preexisting conditions. ted cruz, lyin' ted, he holds the bible up high and lies, lies, lies. how many times has lyin' ted voted to repeal obamacare and strip the right of preexisting conditions? i'm sure it's in the dozens. >> it's amazing. it actually connects with the failure of disdain for due process. these people think everyday people are just a fool.

they can lie any time they want to. when you have folks who flout due process and folks who don't believe everyday american voters are smart enough to discern when folks are lying to them, you have folk who really don't care about the fundamentals of democracy. every time they tell this kind of lie, it's not just simply politics, it cuts to something much deeper. they are willing to throw the basic framework of democracy out the window. in some ways they're willing to throw the basic framework of liberalism out the window because they just lie with impunity, i think. in the broader sense. >> in the broader sense, with a small l. so katty, here's the thing. it proves two things. you got rick scott coming down the home stretch and he fails it. after being governor for eight years, he has to lie about his record for eight years, and he has to lie about supporting preexisting conditions and all these other people. i think it shows two things. one, they're actually desperate.

they're looking at their polls and they're seeing that it really hurts them that they've been trying to gut health care protections for americans. and number two, that the democrats' message is working. health care, health care, health care, which some people have mocked this week, health care seems to be drawing political blood, and so it's forcing people like rick scott to just start lying. >> just this week, the trump administration is trying to expand the reach of plans that don't allow for preexisting conditions, skimpier plans. at the very time you have all these republicans out on the campaign trail who say, i'm a firm supporter of preexisting conditions, you also have the white house saying, yes, but we would like to have more plans that don't have preexisting conditions as well, so chipping away at something that's become increasingly popular. we've been saying this for two years, that as we've watched the support for obamacare rise,

we'll see lower numbers on it. even if you disbelieve some of those poll ratings that have just come out in the last couple of days, rick scott is not doing well in the polls in the state. and suddenly saying that he's in favor of something that the whole state knows he has tried to do away with, i just don't think voters are that stupid. they know what republicans have tried to do to obamacare for the last few years. coming up on "morning joe," it could be donald trump's defining quote. there is no proof of anything. the president compels top staff members to support his dubious claims only to undercut them immediately, sowing doubt immediately afterward. we'll talk about that straight ahead. but first here's bill karons with a check on the forecast. bill? >> we had the major hurricane make landfall yesterday. this was willa. it's down to a tropical depression. it's just about dissipated over

the mountains of mexico. all that rain, though, will add to a new storm over texas and that's going to track up the east coast friday and saturday. a flash flood watch, so far so good. we haven't had any flash flood warnings. this is a region that's been soaked the entire month so it won't take much. but san antonio and austin, we'll keep an eye on you today. on this map, the green shows you where it's raining. the yellow would be some heavier, steadier rains. i also have the winds to show you all the nor'easter is is really a storm that will produce strong northeast winds. it doesn't have to be a snowstorm. pouring as we go from southern new england to philadelphia, baltimore and new york, and then in the evening, the heavy rains are in northern new england. no snow. the blue on this map shows where there will be snow. there may be a tiny bit, but that's about it. there may be about 1 to 2 inches with that storm. i know a lot of leaves are down

at their peak. boston 49. look out tonight, the world series, the temperature will be between 30 and 35 degrees. they don't mind, they won game 1. it looks like a cool, crisp start in new york city. should be a perfect morning. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. intelligence, covering virtually every part of your healthcare business. so that if she has a heart problem & the staff needs to know, they will & they'll drop everything can you take a look at her vitals? & share the data with other specialists yeah, i'm looking at them now. & they'll drop everything hey. & take care of this baby yeah, that procedure seems right. & that one too. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & when your patient's tests come back... you'll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day.ou?

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i'm ready to do what no one on my block has done before. forget that. what no one in the world has done before. all i need access, tools, connections. high-speed connections. is the world ready for me? through internet essentials, comcast has connected more than six-million low-income people to low-cost, high-speed internet at home. i'm trying to do some homework here. so they're ready for anything. . well, yesterday members of the trump administration insisted that there is evidence that middle easterners are under that caravan of migrants headed toward the u.s. from central america. >> that sounds frightening. middle easterners, huh? >> then the president undercut those very claims and admitted he had no proof. >> sir, does the president have credible evidence that middle easterners are in this caravan? >> absolutely we have, and we know this is a continuing

problem. >> where is the evidence, if any? >> well, it's inckoconceivable t there are not people of middle eastern descent in a crowd of more than 7,000 people. >> you say they're in the caravan now. >> they could very well be. >> but there's no proof? >> there's no proof of anything. but they could very well be. >> oh, my god. oh, my god. >> nothing is real and nothing to get hung about, strawberry fields forever. actually, there's proof of some things, jon meacham. there is proof, and we have certificate fiiable black and w proof that donald trump makes fools of people closest to them. poor mike pence. >> i don't feel sorry for him. he can make a choice. >> jon meacham can explain to you that when we in the south say "poor mike pence, bless his

heart," they don't really mean poor mike pence. i'm going to say it again because it's out there. poor mike pence. he set out to make a fool of himself time and time again, and donald trump ends up, after he walks way out on that limb, sawing it off and watching him fall. poor mike pence, he's made a fool of himself again with a lie. same with sarah sanders. >> to use another southern phrase, they're so far past where the buses run that i don't think there is redemption. there is always redemption, but -- >> there is always redemption. we always believe that, too. even if you're a runaway beer truck, there is always a chance for redemption in the south. >> always, yes. this proves the point that -- i was talking to some people yesterday about this. has anyone, and the possible exception here is nikki haley and the jury is still out. has anyone benefited from being

close to this man? ilts n it's not a rhetorical, smart-alecky question. seriously, who has emerged from the trump circle with a reputation intact or enhanced for actual reasonable conduct in the public square? full stop. if you find somebody, i'm happy to concede that. >> i know somebody you can't see anymore near him and that's ivanka because she's hiding. she would not want to be even close to anything he's doing right now because then she would be asked about it and she wouldn't have an answer, especially as it pertains to women and children. >> she's in the protection program, yeah. >> hiding. >> obviously, willie, i mean, dina powell got away with a reputation intact and you have -- >> he's asking who benefited from it. >> and nikki haley got away from -- >> who got away unscathed?

>> who benefited from going on the titanic? it's kind of a hard list to draw up. >> that's the point. >> but willie, there were a couple people that scurried to the lifeboats and got rescued. i can only name two people whose reputations haven't completely been shattered. at the top of the list, though, of shattered reputations, mike pence. i've said it before and i'll say it again, he will never recover from this. donald trump will leave town and mike pence and his reputation will go along with it. >> i would say there are people in the short term, jon, who have been elevated from having been in the white house. sarah sanders is now someone everyone all knows. jared kushner was running a newspaper, now he's running mideast policy. it doesn't mean they've been tarnished by it but they have positions in this country where they otherwise wouldn't be. >> we have kids roughly the same age, and it's the way kids are elevated when they're in a bouncey castle. it's a circus.

i think there's a long-term issue here which is we're going to miss another generation of republican talent in the federal government. first of all, there aren't that many of them actually working to govern. and what we've seen in the past two or three weeks is the president just really rejecting any pretense that he has a staff structure. >> so rick wilson wrote the book "everything trump touches dies." >> which is subtle. >> which is subtle. i think it's a way we part benefits, jon. there can be elevation, but i think there are a lot of folk who benefit from donald trump in relation to their own selfish interests. it's not only folks who work with him, but you think about all those folks who disagree with his brashness, his racism but who are really liking their portfolios right now, who really are benefiting from those tax cuts, and they're willing to

suffer donald trump and the circus and the chaos around him because they're benefitting from the presence of donald trump. coming up on "morning joe," if georgia's governors' race goes to a recount, it will be overseen by brian kemp. one of the candidates on the ballot, brian kemp. we'll break that down next on "morning joe."

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narrator: he claims to be an education reformer, but marshall tuck's failed record managing actual schools won't work as superintendent of public instruction. as ceo of l.a.'s partnership schools, the teachers gave tuck a vote of "no confidence." and tuck's total mismanagement of l.a. charter schools caused financial problems that cost taxpayers thousands. tony thurmond. the only candidate endorsed by classroom teachers. holding all our schools accountable and always protecting neighborhood public schools. tony thurmond. for our schools. "look what she's accomplished... she authored the ban on assault weapons... pushed the desert protection act through congress, and steered billions of federal dollars to california projects such as subway construction and wildfire restoration." "she... played an important role in fighting off ...trump's efforts to kill the affordable care act." california news papers endorse dianne feinstein for us senate.

california values senator dianne feinstein georgia state secretary brian kemp, the state's top official, who is also running has put 50,000 voters on hold with his office, nearly 70% of them black in a state where african-americans make up only 32% of the population. now "rolling stone" has public published audio of kemp in a private event, quote, everyone uses and exercises their right to vote. >> as worried as we were going into the start of early voting was literally tens of millions of dollars that they are putting behind to get out the vote efforts for their base, a lot of that with absentee ballot

requests, just unprecedented number of that which is something that continues to concern us, especially if everybody uses and exercises their right to vote, which they absolutely can, and mail those ballots in, we got to have heavy turnout to offset that. >> continues to concern us if everybody uses and exercises their right to vote. he did not directly respond to questions about that recording. another poll shows kemp tied with stacey abrams, 48 to 48. kemp said he will not recuse himself if the race goes to a recount. >> do you believe you can impartially oversee the state's elections while also running for governor? and two, your office is required by law to direct a recount. would you recuse yourself if a recount is necessary? >> i took an oath of office to be secretary of state and that's what i'm going to continue to do. >> under secretary kemp, more people have lost the right to

vote in the state of georgia. they're beveraen purged, they'v been scared. he raided the offices of organizations to stop them from registering voters. that type of voter suppression feeds the narrative. voter suppression isn't only about blocking the vote, it's also about creating an atmosphere of fear, making people worry that their votes won't count. >> as i said, political analyst steve kornacki joins us now. steve, how can kemp not recuse himself if this goes to a recount? >> the argument he'll make is there is sort of an automatic trigger for recount. if that happens, the secretary of state's office would say, and we saw the secretary of state think they were not as involved in that, it was kind of a local matter of recounting them. he tried to make that case, but this issue is sort of overtaking the race. when you put that poll up on the screen, 48 to 48, the other

thing to keep in mind is georgia is sort of unique among states in that they've got this general election between a democratic nominee and a republican nominee, but they also have a runoff provision in georgia. there is a libertarian candidate who was at that debate last night. this has happened the last couple times in georgia. if that libertarian gets 3% of the vote, and nobody gets 50%, this thing heads to a runoff. in the modern history of runoffs in georgia, and this would be tested, i think, but there is sort of a surge democratic participation in the november general election has dropped off. republicans have done well in these runoff elections. there is a famous one right after the 1992 election. bill clinton carried the state of georgia. the senate race went to a runoff, the republican won the senate race. barack obama got within five points in 2008 in georgia. the senate race went to a runoff. the senate race went to the republican by a lopsided double

margin. here in particular they want to expand the electorate, get this thing to a runoff. but the democrats can replicate that two weeks later. former top advisers weigh in on the current commander in chief. john lovitt and don vitor join the conversation, next on "morning joe." ♪

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. welcome back to morning joe, the president tweeted just moments ago exactly what we've been talking about all morning. he wrote this, quote, republicans will totally protect people with preexisting conditions, democrats will not. vote republican. eddie, i have a suspicion that i have the president or someone close to the president may have been watching our discussion of this litany of republican ads led by governor rick scott in florida, governor scott walker in wisconsin, republicans saying i will protect you if you have preexisting conditions, without mentioning that they are one of 20 states, each of these governors, that has participated in a lawsuit to flip and get rid of obamacare. >> he doesn't watch morning joe. that's about as true as this statement here about preexisting conditions. again, i think this demonstrates a deep disdain for the intelligence of everyday, ordinary people.

they think they can lie without any consequence because they know that the folks who support them will support them no matter what. >> it also seems to be an 11th hour realization. democrats are making health care the issue here, they're not trying to be caught up with things like russia or even the idea the president is unfit for the office, but rather on these sort of local races, on a granular level, making it about health care, there's a sense with republicans, they could be vulnerable on this issue. >> this is pure politics, john, by republicans, there are 7.8 million people by one count in the state of florida with a preexisting condition. governor scott would like all of their votes in his senate race. >> yes. and also has the feel of something that's been nationally tested. this language is all the same. >> yeah. >> and so -- and you -- you can also tell it was in a memo. one of the trump tells, you know, is when he starts taking on that anchorman voice. preexisting conditions. you know, so clearly it was in bold type, on a memo he was handed on air force one. >> the president tweeting about

illegal immigration, and brian kemp, he says, will be a great governor of georgia. stacey abrams will destroy the state, says the president of the united states. >> sherman did that once. >> he did. an effort is under way to turn states blue by winning legislative elections across the country in a push to end partisan gerrymandering. a portion from the sister district project. >> 2,955. >> 850. >> one, one vote. that's the number of votes i won my first race for the oregon house by. >> i won my first rate for the state legislature by 815 votes. there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands of state legislative races all across this country that are going to be decided by a hundred votes, by 200 votes. one volunteer can make the difference. between winning and losing. >> it's more important than ever to get off the sidelines and sister district is a great place

to start. now is the time to act. don't let this november election go by and say i should have been involved. i could have made a difference. >> you can sleep after election day. our very democracy is on the ballot on november 6th. >> and joining us this morning, sister district project co-founders, liz shwegler and rita bozworth. rita, you're the founder and executive of the project. this started after 2016, after donald trump was elected president, an awakening for a lot of progressives, fair to say, and democrats as well. what was the objective as you set out here? >> yeah. well, like you noted and like many people, i was not involved in politics before 2016. >> right. >> but i felt compelled to act after donald trump was elected. and what struck me was that democrats are actually a majority of the country, but they don't have a majority of electoral power in any branch of

government. and that's undemocratic and unfair and needed to change. and so the idea behind sister district was to channel the energy of all of the blue people, the majority in this country, to strategic state legislative races where the democratic candidate needed a boost, and where an infusion of volunteer energy could help them win. >> john? >> hey, liz, following up on that, the idea -- there's been much talk about the women's march symbolized this new energy that came after donald trump's inauguration, there are a record number of female candidates running across the country right now for house and state races. obviously there's a lot, with 13 days away from the midterms, but beyond this short-term goal, are there sort of long range plans to keep this movement going, depending what may happen in two weeks, particularly if, perhaps, democrats do not have a clean sweep of congress and maybe don't win any houses? >> it's a great question.

we came out of the momentum of the women's march. 78% of our volunteer base is women. and so we see a lot of activity in the sort of same demographic as the women's march. we are looking ahead to 2019 and 2020. one of the reasons we love working in state legislative races, our entire focus, is that we have a 2020 census coming up. it's been the subject of much debate, of course. in 2021 we will be redistricting all the congressional lines at the state legislature lev. there's a lot of work to do, a lot of races both this year and in 2019 and in 2020 that will be our last chance to flip -- try and flip state legislatures blue before the 2020 redistricting. >> this is eddie glaude in princeton. women aren't a homogenous blob.

63% of women in alabama voted for roy moore. how will you address the complex ideological differences among women, for example as we try to turn these states blue, as people think about the political implications of the women's march, as it were, given the ideological difference on the ground? >> yeah, it's true that women are not, by in means, a solid voting bloc, but we actually are more focused on the strategy of winning strategic state legislative races where we can flip a chamber blue or hold a a chamber blue or mcinroads in badly gerrymandered states. most of the candidates we support are women, but it's not exclusively women. and we have seen that there are a lot of women motivated across the country who want to get involved in places outside their district. and so that's our focus is really energizing the women on the progressive side who want to do something and want to make a difference, and allowing them to

channel that energy somewhere where it's going to have a big effect for democrats all the way up and down the ballot. >> i should point out the sister district project put its weight behind danica rome, first transgender woman to win in the house of delegates. that was historic for you. what do you find, liz, as you go out, the hot button issues, your deep in these state races in a way that sometimes national politics and national conversations with overlook. is it health care, jobs, immigration, a reaction to president trump, what are you finding? >> yeah. i mean, as the saying goes, all politics is local and that's especially true at the state level. typically voters care very much about transportation issues, about health care, about a lot of these state-level policies that, you know, affect everybody on their daily lives. and as we have found state policy becomes national policy.

so the kind of legislation that's passed for good and for ill at the state level eventually percolates across to other states and then, of course, up to the federal level. >> liz shwegler, and rita bosworth, co-founders of the sister district project. thank you for being us. >> thank you very much. we started the show talking about the president of the united states. what he's up to now, less than two weeks from election day and the midterms. sending up flares about the caravan moving north, an invasion from the border. what are your thoughts a couple weeks out here? >> it's a fuselage of fear. he's throwing everything he can. and why wouldn't he? given there's no incentive for -- there's been no incentive in the american public for him to tell the truth. his base has enabled him, and he's president of the united

states. having run campaigns of, at best, half truths. and in many case outright fabrications. and i think that we have a chance here, we have a chance here in a couple of weeks to put a check on that. >> john, we've been talking about the people who are swept up in the president's lies. kevin brady was the latest two nights ago, the chairman of the house, ways and means forced to give a thumbs up when he was called upon by president trump to say, yes, we are going to pass a middle class tax cut sometime, magically, with congress out of session, in the next 13 days. >> vice president pence yesterday was forced to defend that there were middle easterners in the caravan coming up from honduras, when trump admitted later he had no evidence of that. time and time again, the white house has to reverse engineer what the president says. voter commission fraud, no evidence of that but they had to create this, a sham, in order to back up his lie. >> yeah, the vice president saying it's inconceivable to him that there are not middle easterners in the caravan,

providing no evidence for it whatsoever. final thought to you, eddie? >> we must muster the spiritual wherewithal to fight on behalf of democracy before democracy gives way. this is november 6th. >> good way to end this morning. thank you very much, guys. stephanie ruhle picks up our coverage right now. hey, steph. good morning, efveryone. i'm stephanie ruhle, starting with decision 2018. we are just 13 days away from the midterm elections. and both parties are making their closing arguments. >> they have no way of protecting preexisting conditions with anything they've proposed. they're just saying it. they're just making it up. >> you see the drugs they pour into our country through many different ways, but many through the southern border. we have a lot of people coming up. can't let that happen. we either have a border or we don't. >> with early voting already under way in 31 states, what is sending recor