you're in the business of helping people. we're in the business of helping you. business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. good morning, everybody. this is "up." i'm david gura. with the midterms ten days away, president trump continues to crisscross the country and after the arrest of a suspect in south florida, the president is wrestling with his rhetoric. >> end the politics of personal destruction. the media has a major role to play, whether they want to or not. >> meanwhile, some of president

trump's supporters are waving false flags. >> so you don't think this guy actually sent these bombs to all of these? >> no. probably not. >> and storming battleground states, obama, sitting on what they say is hypocrisies. >> hillary's e-mails. terrible. they didn't actually care about it. because if they did, they'd be up and arms right now about the fact that the chinese are listening to our president's unsecured iphone. >> it's saturday, october 27th as we learn more from law enforcement about a man and his van. >> the van, the creepy van. he had pictures of trump all over it. make america great and pictures of hillary and other democrats with their faces in cross hairs. is it okay to call this one deplorable? >> and on monday the suspect face as federal judge in miami. he's been charged with sending more than a dozen package bombs to former presidents, former

administration officials and to democratic donors. cesar sayoc is 56 with a criminal history, made bomb threats before and today he maces mace -- faces 48 years in prison. sayoc is a registered republican and supporter of president trump. attended multiple make america great again rallies over the years and authorities used fingerprints to track him down. in the hours since arrested, men and women who knew him or knew of him have described him as lost. as a sick individual. and as someone who needed help. some say they were shocked when they saw his name in the news but said they knew he had issues. >> he was anti-gay, anti-black, anti-jewish. you name it. everybody that really wasn't white and wasn't a white supremacist didn't belong in the world. that's what he used to say to me all the time, but i really was

shell shocked when i found out it was him. i really couldn't believe it, ba you as far as an employee, he was on time. he was cordial, articulate. i never had problems with him. there was no theft. my customers liked him. but it was just his political views that scared me. >> on "up" this morning, the newest details and context with jonathan lanier, and marge gae other than and a legal analyst and an assistant professor of public policy at harvard university when she teaching in the kennedy school of government and also a national security analyst, former secret service agent and let me start with you. we heard in that clip quite a description by this man brought in by authorities yesterday. your reaction to what happened and how quickly this happened after those packages were mailed out? >> i think law enforcement's response was very quick and that

they got to him very rapidly, but i also think that when we look at the way he did it, the dna evidence they found, which is the number one way, which is how they actually found him, through partial fingerprints on one of the devices, link them all together, he actually went to a post office, through the u.s. postal service. all of these things, kind of very obvious. seems like he wasn't very careful and even the van itself, you mentioned it before. the ostentatious van all of these stickers. not an individual that seems that savvy, although very sophisticated in that he was able to buy these components, put these devices together and actually send them out. so it's kind of a -- a double balance, you know, as you can see that. >> what happens at this point? you were in the secret service, i mentioned. you go to that press conference yesterday. attorney general jeff sessions convened. representatives from all of these agencies up there including the secret service. what's happening ahead of that court appearance monday morning?

>> everyone's going to work collectively together. you have u.s. postal service, u.s. secret service, fbi, local authorities. everyone's going to work collectively together to bring together all the evidence they have, because he targeted so many different individuals and different kind of components of the government, so to speak. local authorities, nypd as well, who worked the in new york city to put things together. they're going to put everything together. the prosecution's going to build a case to show all the different things he did so there is probable cause and also later on no unreasonable doubt that he did not do this. >> stay with us. bring in pete williams. my colleague who covered the justice department here at nbc news. the rapidity and how quickly law enforcement was able to track down this suspect in florida. from your breadth of experience, how rare, how extraordinary this happened quickly? >> quite notable. think about the fact that the first bomb was delivered on

monday, took them a while to figure out what it is and realized they have a serial bomber on tuesday when the packages start to arrive, that were addressed to the former presidents and thend y you have suspect identified by thursday, an arrest friday. an amazingly fast -- but it worked. one of the reasons is, usually in bomb investigations, the investigators are crawling around on the ground looking for tiny little pieces and trying to rebuild the bomb. here, of the 14 packages edified so far, 13 of them were completely intact. they did partially blow up the one in new york sent to george so saros, didn't know what it was quite at that point. all that evidence and turned out to be the turning point so far in the case, finding a fingerprint on one of the envelopes to the package and as the criminal complaint says, possible dna matches to

materiels found on two other of the devices found inside the package. that was a critical difference, but still an amazingly fast bit of work. >> pete, you were at that news conference yesterday. had the first question out of the gate. i was struck by what christopher wray said. these were not hoax devices. it played out, those saying they might be, questions about what they were and weren't. how important is that statement from the fbi director? >> well, i think to reassure the public it's important, and also to indicate the seriousness of the case. now, frankly, legally, it doesn't matter. because if they were intended to be bombs, you know, whether they worked or not, is still, it's still the same. i think the reason they're saying that they're not hoax devices is, it appears to be experts who have analyzed the ones they've looked at in detail so far, that whoever built them intended them to go off, and they can look at all of the

circuitry, it was there. there was materiel inside the bombs to act at shrapnel. ask yourself, for example, if these were intended just to scare, why put something inside the bombs that you can't see? so that's an important factor. now, there were flaws, thank heavens, in the way they were designed. we're not going obviously say what those are because we don't want to give tips to would-be bomber about how to improve their work, but they think they were intended to go off, and just were you know, fortunately not properly designed or constructed. >> and dan goldman, ask you here in new york as i pick up this affidavit we saw yesterday. look at those five charges. before a magistrate judge in the southern district of new york, interstate transportation of an explosive. illegal mailing of explosive, threats against former presidents. what do you make of those charges and tell you from a legal perspective where this case is going? >> these are very bare bone charges. this is the sort of easiest

charges they could make in order to get him arrested. what will now happen as pete indicated is they will analyze these bombs in much greater detail. there may be additional dna and fingerprint evidence as they unpack the devices, and that's going to be a really critical component. to determine whether or not these bombs were capable of exploding. if they are, i think you will see the charges rampanted up significantly, and most importantly, the question will be whether the prosecutors can charge using a destructive device in the course of a crime of violence. if they can, they will quickly get to a mandatory life sentence. if he's convicted. so what we're looking at right now is really just the initial phase to get him off the street, get him arrested, and now the intensive investigation really begins. >> i want to return to the suspect, if i could, in the time

left. mara, i want to get your reaction to what you saw yesterday. the initial photos of that van. what was plastered on the windows of it. the "new york times" said it was a thick collage of pro-trump stickers soon covered over by a blue tarp and we watched as it was trucked up down the road from in florida. your reaction to that? the legal side, piecing that together, but it is part of this larger cultural moment. isn't it? >> yeah, i mean, listen, there are indeed crazy people everywhere. i was struck actually by what his employer said about him. we just saw that clip. you know, it's really about the normalization of this kind of behavior and i think for those who may have some kind of mental illness, you know, the messages that they are getting about who the enemy is, i think that's what really has struck me and where the responsibility lies. of course, it's not on president

trump, you know, that this individual went out and did what he appears to have done, but it is incumbent on president trump and on republicans especially i think right now to agree to not ville vie political enemies. i mean, that provides kind of the landscape in which these kind of sick individuals actually tend to take action. and i think that's really, you know, not just where the responsibility lies, but where we actually can actually do something. and it's -- it's really scary, you know, vilifying your political enemies or your political opponents as though they are enemies is -- it's anti-democratic. and that can lead to political violence, and that's what we've seen here, and by the way, this is something that we've seen throughout american history. there are other cases of political violence. think about the ku klux klan, the perfect example of political violence. you know, we actually do have a history of this in this country, and so to pretend as though our

words don't matter, as the president and his allies seem to want to do, is, it's very dangerous. >> pete, i want to ask you lastly here. we played that clip of his former employer, i believe a pizza delivery restaurant down in south florida. the phrase, you know it well. see something, say something, and after something like that, should have is added to the beginning of that phrase. saw something should have done something. looking at that van and what's on it, is there something people could have done? would law enforcement have taken action, look, a van in the parking lot, a red target over a current or former member of the democratic establishment? >> nothing on the outside of the van that isn't protected speech on the first amendment. you're allowed to say whatever you want about your public officials. with very little limits. so i -- you know, you could argue some of those are in

questionable taste, but not illegal. under florida law, illegal to live in a van actually parked on a street. many cities or states have laws that don't allow you to live in your vehicle. of course, those laws are widely disregarded all around america, but i mean, i suppose they could have done that, and if they had, what would they have found in the van? one of the questions is, where were these bombs made? think about, 14 of these devices, and each one of them would have taken hours to construct. this is a -- this is a very focused individual, and this is a lot of work to put those things together. so if they had looked in the van, might they have found them in progress? who knows. but i don't think you could say just looking at somebody's bumper stickers that they're potentially violating the law. >> pete, thank you for the update. pete williams from washington, d.c. and thanks to evy joins us

and the rest of the panel sticks around with me. "up" next, unifying the country after tragedies, seems to be a struggle. continuing struggle for this president. >> will you call president obama or any of those targeted to update them? >> if they wanted me to, but i think we'll probably pass. thank you very much. k anyou ver. like a doubletree for my cousins who love their warm chocolate chip cookies. a homewood suites for my uncle who likes a long stay. a hampton for my sister and her kids. that's a lot of syrup. and the waldorf astoria beverly hills for me. but i thought your family vacation was in miami? it is. i hear they're having a great time. book at hilton.com and get the hilton price match guarantee. if you find a lower rate, we match it and give you 25% off that stay. ...to give you the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. 30 grams of protein

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everyone will benefit if we can end the politics of personal destruction. we must unify as a nation in peace, love and in harmony. >> that was president trump speaking a few hours ago at the bojangles colosseum in charlotte, north carolina calling for unity end of the week. we witnessed a rhetorical reversion. >> nancy pelosi and crying chuck schumer. can you imagine? speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, i don't think so. >> maxine waters. but i'm going to be nice tonight. so i won't say it. i won't say it. >> and the president continues to attack journalists tweeting this, a very big part of the anger we see today in our society is caused by the purposely false and inaccurate reporting of the mainstream media. back with us, assistant professor teaches at the kennedy school of government and the rest of the gang with me as

well. leah, start with you. your reaction to that. you see a man so noticeably evidently uncomfortable with having to play this role as unifier. he says the words. we need to unify and you see how quickly he completely dissolves under that in a form like last night? >> because he's not interested in unifying and never has bun. from the time he launched his campaign coming down the golden staircase and declaring mexico was sending their worst rapist, murderers, et cetera, et cetera. donald trump has been very clear he is interested for being president of certain kinds of people and in fact it's played well for him on the campaign trail, in the 2016 election. it has been a rallying cry and one of the ways he's mobilized the base by speaking at times in covert, oftentimes with a mega phone by saying, hey, look. it's not about the rest of the country. it's about you guys. i really care about you guys. at a moment where we're experiencing a national crisis, supposed to be about coming together, and that's the

president's job, he's clearly uncomfortable doing that. particularly with the midterms approaching. the strategy is, go back to the system that has worked. so that's why we so clearly see him fall into attacking the old boogeyman. right? the media. nancy pelosi. hillary clinton. barack obama. the democrats. you know? demonizing them. the media. because that is what he knows and what he likes and what has worked for him. >> you say a moment of crisis. jonathan, turn to you. a new piece looking at how republicans are dealing with this, how the president is dealing with it. does he grasp this is a moment of crisis? is that part of the problem here? that he's unable to engage with it for what it is? >> what he wants to do is not deal with moments of unity as you say. he wants to return to where he's more comfortable. this partisan warfare. that's who he is, where he got his political start and feels most comfortable now. we saw this, seen it a few times. he is able to deliver scripted remarks on a teleprompter, hit

the right notes briefly as setting aside our differences and moving forward as a nation. >> quickly, sump a fascinating moment yesterday. going to go into the east room. this is an opportunity for him to address this, and the event was delayed. as all of that was fussed with within the east room. speechwriter stephen miller in the lot working trying to find the words he would say. >> right. saw images being loaded into the teleprompter. even at that moment, it's sort of a good ill traustration how does things. yes, pre-planned event with trump supporters in the white house. fine. allowed to do that, but also have to address the nation what just happened. most would have done it separately. talk to the nation in the diplomatic room. go to your event, closed press, don't need sew sto see it. instead we see a crowd cheering him on and shifts into more political stuff and you have a cnn sucks chant go up from the

crowd and people yelling about george soros from that crowd and at the rally again last night, delivers some lines she should, scripted lines about moving past this as a nation and resumes his attacks. hillary clinton received one of these packages. he called her crooked hillary last night. we heard him bring up maxine waters. put a lot of blame on the media, very little on himself. republicans are grappling with this. once it was revealed to be a trump supporter behind this, trying to figure out what sort of message, within two weeks of the midterms and this could play going into that. >> your reaction? is that an opportunity to practice, at least? looking at yesterday, had a sea of red maga hats. what was it? a day before? two days before? another event at the white house, had to address happened thus far, sent out his wife to speak before he did. >> a couple things. you're absolutely right, leah. this president is not interested in uniting us, unless it is uniting us around him and his agenda. and in fact i don't think he has any kind of power whatsoever in

that office if the country was able to come together, because he rules based on division. so that's -- that's intentional. it's not that he's struggling to unite us around some common themes, bumpltt the other strik theme, not only was he throwing red meat to his base, and vilifying, the old boogeyman you put it, hillary clinton, a woman, would have been the first woman president. barack obama, the first african-american president and george soros, who is a -- a holocaust survivor, jewish and the target of anti-semitic rants i would say around the world, specifically from putin. so i think this is playing to his base, but i was also struck by the fact any other president would never have gone to a rally actually where that president -- any other president would have been george bush, barack obama, ronald reagan works have actually been, i don't know, maybe in new york, where a bomb

was discovered. reassuring the public that things are under control. that we're going to unite as a country. or anywhere else where one of these bombs was discovered. rather than actually reassure those who were the targets of this political violence, he's shown no interest in that, because he's not their president. he's the president of those who are at the rally last night. >> and your reaction to this as well? talk about unity. look at the definition what it means, yes, to get the country rallied together. i imagine also a legal and security aspect to that as well. you want to highlight the fact this behavior is not just wrong it's illegal behavior? >> this is the continuation of donald trump politicizing everything. including law enforcement, including the criminal justice system, which is heretofore always been apolitical. he goes to these rallies -- almost nightly now, and it is so clear that he is going to these rallies, because it's where he

feels good about himself. and that's about it. it's just, he feels comfortable. it feels good. you'll notice to what john and mara were saying, his -- his off the cuff remarks get increasingly more incendiary as the rallies go on. as the cheering goes on. he literally is like boosting his egorealtime. you have the complete -- leading into law enforcement, criminal justice system including cesar sayoc, of course, and you have a narcissistic laudatory self-interested behavior of his where he is really just interested in his own ego and he's not interested in being any kind of leading light for this country. >> on that, very transparent about wanting to be on the politics. we had it yesterday. tweeted yesterday morning, upset

the media spent so much time covering this bomber before the arrest as opposed to issues, republicans feel good about what they'verecently, momentum and feels this kcould thwart it. and because of the news on the bomber, not on his drug reductions. he wants it to be on him not a unifier in a time of crisis. >> and the shifting attitudes of law enforcement we saw on display. talk about that in a bit. and president trump, what he wants the midterms to be about. characterized that caravan as a gift to his party and even though immigration is far from the number one issue to voters, seems like news to the candidates of many he's backsing. >> can we stalk about border security? can we talk about economic opportunity. do you know if any of your staff is getting their health care through the aca? >> dennis, can we please talk

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and the democrats want to

invite caravan after caravan of illegal aliens in to our country. and they want to sign them up for free health care, free welfare, free education, and for the right to vote. they want to sign them. for the right to vote. what's that all about? >> that's president trump hitting on what he wants to be the defining issue of this midterm cycle continuing to highlight that group several thousand strong of men, women and children making their way across mexico and stoking fear, making dubious claims about gang violence and terrorism to rile up supporters. today a new report he might put a stop to nearly all asylum seekers on the southern border. >> you have some very, very bad people in the caravan. you have some very tough criminal elements within the caravan. >> you're going to find ms-13. you're going to find middle eastern. you're going to find everyone. >> president trump sending troops to the border.

the preng providing mission-enhancing capabilities reportedly to the tune of 800 men and women. when we last checked, that caravan was in southern mexico, about 1,000 miles from the closest border checkpoint. this journey will take weeks at at least. jonathan, turn to you and ask you about this as a part of the president's platform. him talking about this. how much is this 2016 all over again? what's his sense of the effectiveness of this in the middle of all that's happening right now? >> you nailed it. he believes it is 2016 all over again. myself and a couple colleagues with the ap had on interview in the oval office. he said that. things are feeling like 2016. one, republicans had lay momentum because of the kavanaugh hearings energized the based. people undercut in polls who would turn out to vote, more than that, refocus on immigration. he believes his signature and most effective issue two years and is trying to bring it back to the forefront now. you've seen them highlight this

caravan. a white house aide i talked to suggested it was gift. exactly what -- couldn't have dreamed up a better scenario before the midterms with fox news and others providing constant coverage of this group of people, they, pointed out, are 1,000 miles away but presented as an imminent threat and the president is saying this night after night at rallies and feels hard-line rhetoric accompanied by sending troops to the border. making it feel that much more serious, is something that will be a winning issue for him and turn people out, perhaps some republicans who might have stayed home, because they weren't really republicans, say. they were trump supporters. with the president's name not on the ballot, maybe less inclined to turn out in two weeks. now feel they have investment in this and perhaps will. >> leah, turn to you. listening to the president play all this out. a wild fantasy he has about what the democrats want and invitations sent out, caravans in fleura plural. talking about elections,

democrats want to talk about health care. what's the message democrats should use at this point to combat what they're hearing from the president? the counterfactual, but this is fantasy of what's happening? >> barack obama laid it out at the rally he had the other night where he said, you know, this is a distraction. you're being bamboozled and led astray. in fact, we should talk about the issues that matter, that people care about, which include health care, which include the economy. which includes things like taxes, opioid addiction and clean water in flint, michigan. instead we're in the midst of another cultural war. donald trump's cultural war focusing on things that are actually not there. a lot of smoke in mirrors. a lot of snake oil. a lot of shacharlottetonnism an there should be a focus on the issues people care about and ways democrats have actually advanced those policies and the ways ins which republicans have let the american people down.

at donald trump's rallies, there are these posters that go up that say promises made, promise the kept. the problem is that the promises haven't been kept, and that's the issue that donald trump doesn't really want to talk about, and that's the issue democrats should be hitting on over and over and over again. >> up next on "up," the blame game. despite yesterday's announcement they nabbed a suspect in south florida, the false flags are flying in trump country. and stephen colbert whatevered after that first suspicious package here in new york. >> take that now, poppy reported on earlier, take it all the way to the bronx. >> there is a suspicious package. no idea how dangerous it is. take it someplace we don't give a [ bleep ] about. how about the bronx? okay? just get it away from manhattan.

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the devices in our laboratory these are not hoax devices. >> welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. fbi director christopher wray stating clearly the bombs mailed to high-profile democrats are not a hoax. some of president trump's supporters are not so sure. >> just because somebody has a trump sticker on their car doesn't mean they're a trump fan. >> saying probably, only -- >> you don't think this guy actually sent these bombs to

these officials? >> no. probable not. >> why? >> they probably had it done. may have paid him to do it. >> somebody about it being bernie sanders supporter. >> and nbc's investigative supporter tom winter all over this story. your reaction to what you heard there. talking to law enforcement, looking at the affidavit, continuing to explore the story. >> sure. >> describe that in opposition to what we heard in those clips there just a moment ago? >> i think obviously these are still just allegations. is the justice department, as they said, somebody's incident until proven guilty. >> first thing jeff sessions said when out there. >> exactly. they have to say that, but i mean, boy, this is a high bar. you have somebody's fingerprints on the packages. you have dna evidence. you're going to have the statements that this person has made on social media, numerous statements. talking just in the commercial breaks some of the things said about joe biden. look at the totality of this.

this is just a complaint to get him in custody, off the street, get him from stopping sending these bombs. when people look at it and say they probably paid him to do it or it's a false flag or -- how do you get beyond physical evidence there? i remember people -- i covered the trial in boston. people said, it couldn't did been him. somebody else. people tweeting, lying. covering up for the government. sorry. the guy's 25 feet way from me standing up saying, it was me. i did it. i was the one and this is why i did it. what more do you need at that point? i think when we look at this, it's just a, are we not doing a good enough job explaining this to people? or are folks never going to get around the fact physical evidence exists, tying this person to do it and this is actually what happened. it's just the facts. just that simple. >> mara, ask you what's in the water in trump country? not going to ascribe blame here. just allegations as tom said, but there's a very fine piece by

your colleague lookingality these false flags in the "new york times" today. and what was fringe is now brought into the mainstream at least again in this part of trump country. >> yeah. one of the most disturbing things about the time we're living in now, this idea that this assault on truth, and the assault on facts, and on factuali factualitiy, and once you've got a certain segment of the population kind of believing that there is no fact. there's no such thing as truth, right? it's just about, you know, their belief in donald trump. so they believe the messenger no matter what he says. it's a very scary place to be, and probably a long conversation to be had about how we got here. and i do wonder about the demise of the local media and how much of a role that played in all of this, but you know, i don't think that there are any facts we could show some people in this country at this point that would convince them of a

narrative that they don't want to believe. >> and the real danger, i'll say this as the one non-official member of the media here, but the real danger of what donald trump is doing is his attacks on the media. tom, you explain it better. explained it absolutely right. the problem because of attacks on the media, undermining the media's credibility, people don't believe anything the media says. of course, the media is the messenger of the information to the public. if you don't believe the messenger because of what these attacks about fake news and the attacks on the freedom of the press, then you're not going to believe any of the facts, because you just think they're made up. that is the most dangerous, perhaps, thing that trump is doing in this era. >> when you see the continued attacks on law enforcement in particular the fbi, i understand that that's, that may be a political strategy so that if information later comes out about you, people question that information, but on a grand

scale, it's a really dangerous thing for the republic when truth seems to become so muddled in the publics' eyes. that's error dangerous going forward and one of the reasons we try to explain this so well and offer people transparency. here's how we're getting this information, it's coming from a court document, coming from here, coming from there. those things are important. i think this case, i have people tweeting at me now literally before i came in, well, he said he didn't do it. that's what he told people yesterday. if you and i had a dollar for every time a defendant said they didn't do it, we wouldn't need to be working here. it happens all the time. i think when you look at it, that person say, well, they probably paid him to do it. this guy was working in a strip club, a night ago. >> a meal review, tom. >> yes! i think he was bouncing in a strip club according to the

local report. really, we're getting to the heart of the truth here. look at that, this is how this happens. this is, not a grand conspiracy here. it's really a challenging time. >> jonathan, back to tu lastly. i mentioned in the last block tension between the one way the president talks about law enforcement and another way. saw it on display yesterday. quotation mark misthe morning. praise finding a needle in the haystack yesterday afternoon. this is not shall i say the first time he cast doubt on the fbi. >> yes, and the attorney general everyone believes in in his last few weeks on the job. he has, when it's been politically expedient has taken shots at law enforcement and praises them when he wants to associate with them about being tough on crime or terrorism, whatever it might be and his himself fueled some of these doubts. this is not just supporters a the a rally who perhaps suggest

cast out whether this guy was the bomber or not. prominent republicans in the media. lou dobbs, rush limbaugh, suggesting there's a possibility of a hoax. the president's eldest son, liked a bunch of tweets very much calling this a false flag and trump puts the word "bomb" in quotes complaining how much media coverage they're getting and he more than most, maybe more than all, is the one who stirred up doubt in the media and very much play add role in creating a hyperpartisan environment where it's red versus blue and you can't even agree on the same set of facts anymore. >> back to reporting, tom. thank you for your help. joining us on set. just ahead, of all issues driving voters to polls what do they care about the most? the risks of the president putting all of his eggs into one basket of the economy. omy. for the good. and not so good. for the mundane. the awe-inspiring.

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♪ today is a good day to make a plan for your financial goals and your everyday ones too. pnc can help. we'll be with you every step of the way. let's start today. and we got the economy growing again. so when folks talk right now about, oh, the economy is doing so well, where do you think that started? >> the fight continues over who gets credit for the strength of the u.s. economy between

president trump and president obama. >> i have created such an incredible economy -- america now has the hottest economy anywhere in the world. >> but election after election, politicians have adhered to what is perhaps chester carville junior's most famous truism. >> it's the economy, stupid. >> to my panel now. with this latest polling from npr and pbs newshour. issues most important to voters, 20% say economy. before we get into that, let me play a bit of tape here. this is the treasury secretary steve mnuchin back in 2017 talking about the importance of the stock market to this administration. >> the stock market has rallied significantly since president trump took office and since the

election and then again as he took office. do you view that as a report card to the administration? >> absolutely. this is a market to market business and you see what he thinks. >> markets go up, markets go down. help us understand the perils of that. >> this is something presidents don't normally do because markets go up and markets go down. but president trump came into office with the market relatively in a good place and it has gone higher. this is something that he believes is a referendum on his policies and that he believes will help him secure another term. the problem is when markets go down this week, you sudden areally run the risk of being blamed for that. and people are mindful of it. they are very concerned that if

the bottom falls out of the economy, things do hit a slowdown, that, more than anything, more than mueller, more than the russia probe, more than other issues facing the country right now could be the thing that undermines him going forward. but at least at this point trump is not willing to disassociate himself with the economy. he's still betting the economy will do well, the stock market will perk back up and he can bask in that. >> most americans are not invested in the stock market. we talk about the perils of it politically, but this is not going to be something that can affect them day in and day out. >> so it's pocketbook politics. people care about what does my wallet feel like. what does the money in my pocket feel like at the end of the day. in some ways, that wasn't necessarily translating into how

people are seeing that in their day-to-day lives. one of the number one complaints was about the economy and about jobs and about wages and things like that. and so one of the things that trump is trying to do is tap into that and having it both ways. so saying the economy is in shambles, but taking credit for that same economy that started under the obama administration. but at the end of the day, in some ways, trump is good at tapping into this. he's asking, you know, how are you feeling? what does your wallet look like at the end of the day? how does it feel? the problem is that is a dicey gamble, especially with an economy as dicey as the one we're in now. >> but when you really get down to it, the economy is doing particularly well and that has

been very good for the controlling party. the problem with trump is he goes too far. it can't just be that i am overseeing a positive economy. it has to be i am the reason why the economy is so good and that is why he has to go and denigrate obama and claim that it is all him that is the reason for the booming economy. >> that is the story, isn't it? >> go back to that polling data. he should be talking about this all the time and he's not able to do it. >> he is. >> to bring it full circle. >> it was actually heartening to see barack obama out on the campaign trail talking about this trying to take some ownership of it.

but when you look at swing districts, all eyes are on these swing districts. the republican tax plan and the repeal of obamacare and the gop tax bill. in terms of those seats the democrats need to win, those are the two issues that are winning issues for them. even the republican voters in those swing districts, in those swing districts, republican voters, they're not trump fans, necessarily. so you can actually really move in on these issues. but then in terms of the democratic base, because the economy is doing well, you actually don't have the same resonance with the jobs message. they want to talk about liberal views on immigration, on democracy, on russia. and so you kind of have a split

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welcome back to "up." i'm david