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move ov david gura. taxpayers could be on the hook for nearlies $20 million in security expenses for education secretary betsy devos by september of 2019. it is all due to security provided by the u.s. marshals service, security they started days after the multi-millionaire businesswoman was confirmed to her cabinet post. gets a u.s. marshal armed security detail, something no other cabinet secretary gets. not the secretary of state, not the secretary of defense. but the government says all of this additional expensive security is necessary fe due to the threats against one of the president's most controversial cabinet members. i want to note our reporting indicates the request was not something she herself made, which makes one wonder who requested it? and also why are taxpayers footing the bill for all this especially when betsy devos claims to hold assets of at least $580 million married to co-founder of amway richard

devos, estimates $5.4 billion in march before he passed. feli felipe, your reaction to this? you traveled and worked with the secretary of state. this is extraordinary support i guess you call it that betsy devos has. my overarching question, what have we learned from the scott pruitt affair? outrage everywhere except within the white house for a long period of time. he did leave. were any lessons learned? how does that transfer to this? >> no. >> maya? >> no. i mean, i think, look -- i've -- went to work for hillary clinton 16 years ago. every day of that had secret service protection. i understand. talking human life. whether you agree or disagree you don't want something to happen. that said, it's absurd the secretary of education has round the clock protection since then. you might want to ask yourself, why do you have a secretary of education that feels they need it? and, yes, while it wasn't her directly, it's safe to say that her staff did it at her behest. any security expert will say,

sure. when someone has a tangible or specific threat, absolutely make sure they're protected. she's not had a threat for two years. and you have to put this in straight terms. i know we throw around money numbers like a million and like, okay. this is, would hire 268, by nbc's reporting full-time element ary teachers in kansas and nearly 170 pell grants for students in need. that's the trade-off. whether she's worth half a billion or half a million, there's something wrong here and you saw it with pruett, saw it with tom price and mnuchin. these folks think these planes and these perks are theirs for the taking and they're not. >> point out the administration seems will be to praise her for taking her private plane occasionally. why i bring up the fact she is worth half a billion. what else could robert mueller have in his back pocket as it looks like the mueller investigation is drawing to a close? an insider joins us next.

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russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. that's candidate donald trump calling on russia to release clinton campaign e-mails, wikileaks did do that and this is an investigation into russia's role in 209 2016

election. and changing his tune about his relationship with julian assa e assange. he said this in august of 2016. >> i actually have communicated with assange. i believe the next part of his documents pertain to the clinton foundation. >> days later roger stone had a different take. >> i have not spoken to mr. assange and i never said i had. i said we communicated through an intermediary. >> now nbc news reports roger stone discussed wikileaks plans with a friend six days before those e-mails were released and a text exchange the radio host tells roger stone this. big news wednesday adding later "hillary's campaign will die this week." october 3, 2016 another text message exchange asking stone about having donald trump say he would give julian assange asylum, replying with a question, so nothing will happen

tonight? the e-mails released five days later. announcement came via tweet. joining me is a roger stone associate questioned by robert mueller's team. the news of the day. heard of the president leaving the white house headed for california. no progress made on a sitdown taken care of in good time. your reaction where we are? what you think we will learn tr this question or import of this moment that he's completed this questionnaire after this back and forth whether he'll answer and when and how he'll answer them? >> right. his legal team. if reports are true and his legal team is answering from the time he left went down the escalator to the time elected in terms of actual collusion or conspiracy with the russians that's a win for them. i also think he probably -- just an opinion of mine -- would not have actually answered the questions as republicans keep the house. rudy giuliani said this is about articles of impeachment.

the fight about him getting impeached. i believe he will be impeached, not removed from office and said already with whatever else i want to add. therefore, very important for him to do this, because as i said last night on the panel with nigh with noah wyle. doing watergate. >> how do you process seeing the back and forth with randy ce credicco? >> we talks about him. for noib say raanybody to say r your source, roger says -- one, roger stone lied. this proves he didn't in terms of his congressional testimony. i see you -- >> join us here in a sec. >> number two, it also shows

that once again the issue isn't whether or not, to me, the issue isn't whether or not they wanted the e-mails released. the other campaign wanted the "access hollywood" tape released. >> oh, come on. >> the issue is -- >> we didn't ask china or pakistan to release it. >> the issue -- >> by the way, we didn't ask for "access hollywood" to release it. you did ask russia to release it. >> not me. >> you didn't see hillary clinton on tape saying, nbc, if you're listening we'd love to see that tape. >> that said, the issue, collusion and conspiracy, dealing with randy is not strategizing with the russians and/or julian assange on what should be released. >> sounds like another coffee boy. >> and no question roger stone has a truthiness problem and that could lead to legal problems. we're waiting for another indictment to drop and surprised if it wasn't roger stone.

>> so would i. >> but i think we have to back up into what the actual legal issues are here, and for conspiracy, right? when we say collusion, what we're really talking about is conspiracy to defraud the united states. in this instance, a conspirator, someone participating in a conspiracy does not have to have done all parts of the conspiracy. so if they are actually trying to get from the russians material that will support the campaign, it doesn't matter whether you're using randy critico or someone else. roger stone does have to have had direct contact for him to have participated in a conspiracy, and what we don't know is whether or not and to what extent robert mueller has evidence that donald trump had sufficient knowledge that he could be an unindicted co-conspirator. >> as after observer of the campaign in 2016 i know the trump campaign distanced themselves formally from roger stone early in the process, but

people familiar with his tactics, guerrilla tactics saw it in the trump campaign leaving many to think maybe the separation between roger stone and donald trump was a little more fiction than they let on? roger stone and trump had some sort of maybe a mild meld if not direct communication? >> no mastermind at the time it happened. i'm fired august 3rd. we are furious. roger cannot get a meeting with trump that week. when roger actually meets with trump highly disrespected, and donald's not loyal. that's one of his problems. you see michael cohen go meet, like a john dean situation sitting there for a day, two days in public, all they had to do give michael a job. okay? the situation would have been a lot different. roger was furious. trump is giving me problems about getting roger hired. i took a lower salary to make

sure roger could get hired. roa roger leaked. my position, get corey lewandowski removed. he screwed me. i want him out. our position was, why not, what about manafort? and that's when we started thinking about it. >> two things. first of all the president has not turned any questions. don't assume. >> he's been busy. what he said. >> second of all, i don't know we should assume bob mueller is close to ending. we're also getting that from sources coming from the white house, but this notion, you keep hearing from the trump side that because they're inept, because they're the gang that can't conspire straight that it's okay. it is not okay for don jr., george papadopolos, roger stone, to send these lies everywhere. >> if a leal, not okay, didn't want to, hate to do it, it's not okay -- >> you're prepared to. >> no. i haven't and haven't done it where i could have on the panel

before. it's not okay for your campaign to pay for information on donald trump, which is what you did. >> not going down this rabbit hole. >> because you don't want to answer it. >> i don't want to let you off the hook about roger stone. clearly an element of someone providing a western perspective on the media in terms of -- the russians and their guccifer 2.0 was not saying, oh, let's do this. someone was helping them. roger stone, i know we all say that this is a bad person, democrats don't like karl rove and -- roger stone is in his own category of the true underbelly of politics. he is a liar. he is just not a good person. he will do anything. the notion that he would not have done anything, and by the way, i would make the argument if he wasn't getting along with donald trump all the more reason he would want to kiss up and get back into his good graces. the notion all of these conversations are happening with jerome kersey, roger federico and every is just -- ah, and by the way, it's okay to ask if nothing comes of it.

so what? you know, when you ask a question like don jr. saying i'd love it, maybe the russians hear that as, okay. >> the russians used that meeting, that -- >> 30 seconds, and don't use a word -- dps -- >> no. not for fusion dps i would say your former administration you worked in allowed her into the country. did not want the russian lawyer in the country. there for the case and came in and lobbied on a stupid issue which putin is obsessed with. mass nitschke issue, claiming donation of money which is wrong. leave it there. and zuckerberg claims fake news and now saying making him worry, and that story is straight ahead. straight ahead. ♪

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what happened since this article was published. mark zuckerberg addressed it in a phone call this week. we have a quote from sheryl sandbe sandberg. your reaction? >> facebook is under siege again in washington. for a long time law makers has been asking whether facebook has done enough from everything to election dissemination to privacy. then you add to that the way facebook hired the blow back. folks are now questioning whether mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg have their hands on the reigns so to speak. >> reading that article, did you think it was the threat of regulation or the threat of consumer blow back? >> i think it's both. it goes back to their bottom line. you have marketers saying if you

can't trust the company in terms of what they're telling you, we have a problem and of course consumers there was a #deletefacebook. the data mine is their cash crop. regulation, remember it's not just the united states. europe has been making stronger noises and they have stronger anti-trust laws. >> i want to talk about the article saying they were distracted by personal projects. how safe are they in their positions when you look at the ramifications? >> generally, they're pretty safe. mark zuckerberg has full control over facebook. he's rejected the notion he

lessen his control on the board. he's there to stay. he was asked about sheryl sandberg and mark said he thought she was doing a good job. there are questions about the leadership there and whether they should have known more about the political activities of their own company. repeatedly when we were on a call with facebook we asked them did you know why you hired this fire? they said they had not. that took people by surprise that they don't know enough about their company's activities. >> tony, thank you for joining us and thank you to the panel for joining us. tomorrow night at 10:00 tune in to "revolution." recapping breaking news.

president trump said he wrapped up robert mueller's questionnaire. right now the president is en route to california after blaming catastrophic wild fires on california. an update from the ground there is straight ahead. he ground the is straight ahead. here we go. discover. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover.

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