when it comes to these wars. where do you see that going? >> a lot of people in the white house recognize had this is a mistake. the president signaling over the weekend that he's moving to correct that. of all the hats the president wears, commander in chief one of the most important. this is something that presidents just do. trump doesn't always like to do that, but this someone i guarantee you he'll wind up doing. >> "morning joe" starts right now. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, november 20th. we've got a lot going on, joe. >> boy, do we have a lot. >> apparently the troops are headed home. the trump administration has been warned from barring asylum

and ivanka has private e-mails. who knew. >> you obviously had a lot of the same questions that came up when hillary clinton's e-mail issue came out. we're going to be talking about that. we're going to be talking about a report out of politico that the troops are, in fact, coming home, hopefully a lot of them before thanksgiving. >> you but the cara van never got here. >> well, it's coming. it's coming. but you know what? we're all grateful that the troops are going to be able to be home. >> this is true. >> these troops by thanksgiving. so whether it was general mattis, republicans in congress, whoever is owed a bit of thanks to pressuring the president. we have the ivanka story. we also have the institution's holding you've had over the past three days three federal judges saying no to donald trump ruling against donald trump's interests. as we're going to get to, it

happened again last night. >> yep. >> so a lot to cover today. >> along with joe, willie and me, we have professor at princeton university eddie glott jr., sam stein, and jackie alamaney with us. overnight, breaking news. a federal judge has temporarily blocked the trump administration from barring asylum for migrants who enter the country outside a legal port of entry. president trump issued a proclamation back on november 9th stating that anyone who crossed the southern board er illegally would be ineligible for asylum. that was challenged in court by the aclu and the center for constitutional rights. and the federal judge ruled the policy is likely a violation of federal asylum law. the block remains in effect until december 19th, at which point the court will consider arguments for a permanent order.

well, this judge was appointed by president obama. his decision comes after two other federal judges appointed about by president trump ruled against the white house. on friday, u.s. district court judge timothy kelly said the white house violated a cnn reporter's fifth amendment right to due process by suspending his press badge without explanation or a chance to appeal the decision. and on thursday, trump appointee dabney frederick refused to request a tossout of a case against bob mueller regarding russia's meddling in the 2016 election. joe, you're right. it appears there are systems holding. >> there are institutions holding. you go around the world and you try to figure out what is different from more constitution republics than other form of

government. at the end of the day, it comes down to an independent judiciary. and here you have two trump appointees in three days actually ruling against the president's interests. one in a high profile case like a costas case in cnn. i guarantee you that there's not a ruling the president would have rather won than that one. a lot of these federalist society judges that are are getting appointed, they've read the constitution. they're originalists and some of them are going to be the last ones to be bowled over by this president. >> and this will short circuit the president's brain because he views all these judicial institutions as in service of him. he believes they are there to serve the president of the united states. so when he appoints somebody, he believes that there to protect him, see jeff sessions, for example, as attorney general. so this will confuse him quite a bit. i'm sure we'll see some tweets

about it. but, again, this is the question we've asked since january of 2017. are the american institutions strong now to, where appropriate, stand up to one man as he bulldozes his way across the country. in several cases, we've seen the answer has been yes. and you're right, this white house ruling in response to jim acosta. the white house now put out guidelines of how people are supposed to conduct themselves. the white house is always trying to find ways around whatever legislative or judicial ruling goes up against them. >> yeah. so we don't know, mika, whether judges are going to be required to get involved in the future in the story that the washington post broke last night regarding ivanka trump's e-mails. but, boy, a lot more questions than answers this morning. >> yes, definitely. i'd say this goes in the

category of hypocrisy, lack of awareness with a dab of irony. house democrats are likely to investigate white house adviser and first daughter ivanka trump for using private e-mail to conduct government business. this after her lawyer says an internal review found scores of e-mails about policy and official business with hundreds more related to scheduling meetings and travel. >> wait, this -- hold on, hold on. this is the same ivanka trump who is related to donald trump -- >> she works for him. >> who -- >> said lock her up. >> yeah. had everybody at conventions and campaign events chanting lock her up you. >> they still do it. >> based on hillary clinton using private e-mail. is that the same family? >> that's it. it's the same family. it's in possible violation of records -- >> are you sure it's the same family? >> it is. and i can't imagine anyone on this show or anywhere that we

might talk to screaming lock her up. >> well, no, of course. >> that would be so wrong and dangerous. >> at least they didn't set up a private domain account, a personal domain account before they went to washington like hillary did. >> the microsoft stored personal domain was set up december 2016 for ivanka trump and her husband, jared. >> take that part back. so they did that, too. >> who is also an assistant to the president. >> okay. >> whose use of personal e-mail for government businesses was first uncovered by politico last year after liberal watchdog american oversight posted images of trump's e-mails object stained through the freedom of information act. a spokeman for her lawyer said a review began in 201.

quote, while visioning into government until the white house provided her the same guidance they had to others who started before she did, ms. trump sometimes used her private account almost alwayser for logistics and -- you mean like yoga and wedding planning? that's what hillary said. i didn't think that worked. anyhow, go on, to address misinformation being peddled about mrs. trump's personal e-mail, she did not dracreate a private server in her house or office. >> how do we know? >> the account was never transferred or housed at trump organization. no e-mails were were ever deleted. >> how do we know? >> and the e-mails have been retained -- >> how do we know? >> that's what hillary's lawyers

said. >> everything hellry says, they could be telling the truth, but how do we know? we don't wait, hold on a second. so we have cheryl mills, a democratic lawyer forwarding which e-mails she thought was relevant and now we have al belowel, a democratic lawyer, forwarding which e-mails he thinks is relevant. there are a few parallels here. yeah. >> okay. >> hillary clinton's people made the same claim, that classified information was never sent over her server he which the fbi later debunked and clinton had a private team sort through the

e-mails to determine which oneser and were not relevant. here is what the president thought about that back then. i guarantee you one thing. we're going to be talking about those e-mails every day. >> how can hillary clinton manage this country when she can't managed her e-mails? she lied like a dog on her e-mails. she should be in prison. so we're going to get a special prosecutor and we're going to look into it. >> it's awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> because you would be in jail. >> maybe it's too obvious to say, but i'm going to say it, anyway.

>> public records are public and they have to be preserved. no one is expecting her father and his constitutionally challenged followers to start screaming for ivanka to be locked up, but it is not too much to hold ivanka trump to the same standard of skepticism and the same standard of inquiry that we demanded from the press in over a year in the case of hillary clinton. ivanka's spokesman told the post that her case was totally different from hillary's. quote, no classified information was ever included, no e-mails.were eve-mails were ever deleted. that's what hillary clinton said at her u.n. press conference about classified information. remember that? and we don't know what was deleted. we don't know what was not

deleted. we don't know what was turned over. we don't know what was not turned over in its totality. we have no idea if what ivanka trump's lawyers are saying is true any more than we had any idea whether what cheryl mills was telling us about hillary clinton's e-mails are are true or not. we just don't. >> let's look at the facts. ivanka trump is asking you to believe that her lawyer acted in the public's interest when he chose which e-mails he would make part of the official government record. and it was ivanka trump's lawyer and ivanka trump's democratic lawyer alone who decided which ones he would hold back. ivanka's lawyers claim nothing was deleted. maybe he's telling the truth,

maybe he's not. as we sit here this morning, there's no reason for any of the media to be any less aggressive in the search for truth regarding ivanka trump's private e-mails than everybody was for hillary clinton for a year and a half. and when the new congress gets sworn in, the house oversight committee, they need to seek nothing less than ivanka trump and her lawyers and the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth just like, mika, everybody did with hillary. >> yeah. and jackie, your paper has been on the front lines of this. i have a lot of questions coming out of this. does jared have any private e-mails? >> some were released last year. >> does ivanka's e-mails go beyond running her household and her shoe business, when she decided to do that. tons of questions, tons of potential conflicts. what was the respond inside the white house when they found out

she had private e-mails? >> yeah, well, my colleagues did some fabulous reporting on this. they reported that officials inside the white house were alarmed when they realized that ivanka had sent hundreds of e-mails from a personal server and claimed that she hadn't been briefed on the rules. but, you know, we did see last year that there were some stories leaked about president trump's staffer using personal e-mails to respond to government officials. there was that practical joke that was played on him, someone e-mailing him acts as tom bosser and jared responded, you know, thinking that under the pretenses that it was bosser when it turned out to actually not be him. so i do think that this might open up a litany of potential minefields for this white house.

but this really shouldn't come as a surprise. this white house hasn't really been follow processes or rules all that closely. you know. >> yeah. they certainly -- >> go ahead, mika. >> they just certainly don't seem to think that any rules apply to they will. this was, willie, one of the key messages of a campaign, so it's -- i don't think she needed to read the rule book. she probably just needed to listen to the a audience screaming lock her up at he rally across the country that donald trump led, hammering away at hillary clinton's private e-mails. so i think when they all went into the white house, they knew there was an issue with e-mails, so i'm going to, like, take the leap here and say they didn't

care. >> if you ask anybody, government business goes on government e-mails. the central theme of that campaign was clinton's e-mails, so they knew. let's bring in michael schmidt. beyond the hypocrisy here, michael, which is obvious, what parallels do you see between ivanka's e-mails and hillary clinton's e-mails? >> well, they're very similar as you guys were just laying out. the question you now will be whether the democrats on the hill do what the republicans on the hill did to clinton. and what they did is they sent a letter to the intelligence community back in 2015 saying, hey, can you go and look at this stuff and see if there's anything that's classified. that was ultimately what tripped up clinton. and what the democrats could do now in the house, now that they're in power, is they could go back to the same person in the intelligence community, this inspector general, and say, hey, can you guys just take a look at these e-mails and see if there's anything classified and that is what got the ball rolling on the

fbi investigation. and i find it hard to believe that the democrats wouldn't try and do that here because they would say, oh, look, you know, who knows what is classified. and the thing that we learned from clinton's e-mails is that there's a lot of things that can easily be classified. they found an enormous amount of classified information. so who knows what is in ivanka's e-mails, but the intelligence community often can find something that's classified. >> well, and, you know, sam stein, hillary clinton was secretary of state, but -- >> a little different. >> but ivanka trump has a much closer relationship, personal and professional, with the president of the united states than hillary did with barack obama. there was almost a chinese wall between those two. in this case, you have ivanka going around, sitting in for her father at world conferences, sitting next to angela merkel. you've got certainly her husband

spending weekends with mbs right before he begins to champ down and start tore you thing people at the ritz carlton in riyadh. she has far more access to the president of the united states than hillary clinton ever did in the oh balance ma -- obama administration. >> and what people think is mundane information could be classified. there's a problem with joef classification, but there's a lot of information that is in transit that ends up up getting classified for that reason. but, you know, to your point, ivanka is not a junior foioffic. she is a senior official. and jared has his nonsecurity e-mail, as well.

donald trump was using a nonsecure cell phone, left his cell phone on his golf cart at one point. there are differences in these stories between hillary and ivanka, but one of them will be, i think, a word that you used, joe, which is a hack gap. will people who were were vever critical of hillary clinton, the sustained e-mail habits over months and months and months, will they speak out now about ivanka? if they don't, what does that say about what kind of political and media ecosystem do we live in? >> i heard last night some people on other networks saying, well, you happen, jeepers, nothing to see here and we shouldn't have been so aggressive with hillary clinton.

that's the lesson. no, that's not the lesson you take away here. there's public record rules because there's public record rules. it wasn't a mistake to try to figure out if hillary clinton was reckless with classified information. maybe it went on too long. maybe that was hillary clinton's fault for not being straightforward. maybe the press was too aggressive. i don't know. we'll let media adegreesers figure that out over the next few years. but, sam, these laws are in place for a reason and just because you're the president's daughter or just because, you know, you feel like republicans are too aggressive against you if you're hillary clinton doesn't excuse somebody from breaking the law. >> and, in fact, it's almost worse in a way because we had this collective outrage over what hillary clinton did. the idea that ivanka would go into the administration and not have an idea that using a public e-mail system was necessary as part of the job is laughable.

she either was willfully dumb about it or decided the rules didn't necessarily apply to her. we need more information. what kind of information was she pushing through her private account? was it sensitive? was it classified? who was she e-mailing and what did it mean? and secondly, the people who were the loudest critics of clinton in the republican house, jason trafits, trey gowdy, they are gone now from office. all three of those people. will they feel at liberty to speak out either about this is past criticisms of hillary or about the current practices of ivanka going forward. >> and perhaps, willie, all of this ends up being much ado about nothing, but we're not going to take her lawyer's word for it or her word for it or donald trump's world for it any more than anybody in the media took hillary clinton's word for

it or her lawyer's word for it or hurry her's word for it. we do know one thing is for certain. it is the violation -- the violation is more willful and the violation itself is worse because she was on notice. we were all on notice. the world was on notice that if you used private e-mails in public business you were violating the law. she did it, anyway. over a hundred times. >> and think about the time frame we're talking about. if it began during the transition, that's literally days after the president wins an election based on hillary clinton's e-mails. and something else we point out is the fact that ivanka trump's attorney, abby lowell was the one who sat with her and reviewed which is personal, which is business. that is something we saw with

hillary clinton. it was the person itself who got to decide what was personal and what was significant enough to let people see. so we'll see if republicans are aggressive in going after this. but this is why the old term elections have consequences is there. now you have a democratically controlled house of representatives that may be interested in pursuing this. >> democrats would have to make a decision whether or not this should rise to the top of their level of concern, given all the other things they have to be -- >> it's on the list. >> it's on the list, but i don't know where it is in terms of the list. it reveals that perhaps the critique of hillary clinton's e-mails wasn't perhaps principal, it was simply political. but one of the things that comes to view, at least for me, is that the underlying concern about hillary clinton was a concern about the clintons generally that they thought themselves above the law. and here we have ivanka trump and the trumps giving us evidence that they themselves believe they're above the law. this is just one more example of that fact. >> yep. still ahead on "morning joe," president trump will likely take credit for bringing

the troops home, not from a war zone, but from their dubious deployment along the southern border. we're bring in hans nichols straight ahead. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. how is it looking? >> it looks frigid for thanksgiving in the northeast and we have a soaker coming in from the northwest. which is good. we need rain in california to alleviate the fire danger. then we're going to get mudslides and debris flows where we've had those burn scars. this is the beginning of the rainy season. the area of paradise fire is right here and they're expecting around 3 to 4 inches of rain. so, yeah, we'll see pictures of mud and debris flows but we need clean air and the water in the west. in the east, we would love it to stop snowing in new england. second snowstorm in a week. it's snowing in southern portions of maine. and how about the shot of cold air coming down? today it's in areas like minneapolis.

your windchill is 10. then we head into wednesday. very cold, great lakes. it begin toes head to ts to hea northeast. 7:00 a.m. in new york city for the start of the parade. it looks like the coldest forecast ever for the parade in new york city. all things look pretty good for everyone heading out the door and heading to the airport to the roads over the next two days. washington, d.c. including, you're going to be looking at cold conditions, but just fine for any of your travel. you're watching "morning joe." yl you're watching "morning joe." ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln

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president is not pursuing an executive order to withdrawal birth right promises. trump missed his deadline for a middle class tax cut. >> didn't he gets the chairman of the ways and means committee to raise his hands at a rally and go, yes, we're doing that next week. >> but there was no session the following week. >> people in osk kosh, wisconsin, want to know. i bet you there's people in youngstown, ohio, that want to know. i bet there are a lot of people in the suburbs of philly that want to know. where is that middle class tax cut that you promised in november? >> nobody listens to anything because he s ows doubt. >> i guarantee you people all

across wisconsin and in the suburbs of philadelphia were listening. he promised them a middle class tax cut in november. where did he lie to working class and middle class americans? that's a question they will remember. >> a lot of people were worried about the caravan, as well. because the crisis of the caravan coming to the country, the invasion, the marauders, brown people. >> they were bringing small pox and leprosy and monkey pox. >> and they were all pregnant. they were all going to have a baby right when they crossed the border, just drop it. >> touchdown. >> that apparently is not as pressing any more. two days ago, president trump tweeted that the united states is, quote, ill prepared for this invasion of migrants coming from south america. think of all those babies. but now, just as the first migrant caravans have actually started to arrive at the border -- >> so there they are. coming they're. tijuana. >> some of the 5800 active duty

troops that trump ordered there -- he said they were going to have them shoot to kill. >> no, they're come home. >> okay. >> troops have already completed their mission which mostly consisted of laying barbed wire and other barriers. they'll be sent home in the coming days adding they're all expected to be finished and sent home by december 15th. >> that's great, great news. >> lieutenant general buchanan confirmed the military rejected a request from the department of homeland security to have an armed force back up border patrol in case of a violent confrontation. something defense secretary jim mattis recently said he was -- >> so let's stop right here and let's bring in hans nichols. hans, i expect secretary mattis was never thrilled with this concept. that would be an understatement. do you spell if he pressured the white house to get these troops home by christmas, at least?

>> i wouldn't be so sure that they are actually coming home. by christmas, maybe, because the mission has always been december 15th, but this morning, there are new reports out that they actually will have forced protection on orders. and that was what mika was saying, that general buchananen said that they rejected. so in all of this, it's been terribly confusing reporting it here at the pentagon because the pentagon is trying to figure out what president trump wants. and so even last night, say he that general buchanan's statement that some of the troops will be coming home, officials were scrambling to make sure that he didn't get too far out in front because, frankly, they don't really know just what the president's end game is here. when you look at the kind of briefings we're getting here, guys, they are comically tactical. they will give you a sense of, say, there's been 11,426 meters of barbed wire laid just on the texas sides. if they're giving you meter count down to the meter on how much barbed wire they're laying,

that's a pentagon that wants to do the tactical side. >> the question a lot of people across the country, not just in political circles, but people across the country have asked is why general mattis went along with this, given the respect he has for the troops, given what he's given to the country himself, why did he go with this? i understand he's a chain of command guy, but where was general mattis in all this and how does he feel about the idea of sending troops to the border? >> so you know when you look for artful legal justification of something that you don't really think there's a legal justification for, what mattis has done is he's gone back into history and say this is similar to what wilson did. to my question and response to what, and people ask me that, it's like, what do you expect mattis to do? do you want him to resign over this? so, yes, it's a salute and go on way. there's always a historical precedent that he can cite. but mattis has embraced this

mission. he's called it moral. he's called it ethical. he said we're there in support of whatever homeland security needs. when he went down and visited on that border, walking along with kristin nielsen, he said to the troops, whatever she needs we're going to provide. so he's found the legal justification for it. the question is, will the mission change? will these troops down there, whether it's 5800 or goes up or down ever so slightly, will they do forced protection for border patrol agents? and that's a different matter. that's what sort of we need to figure out this morning is when is that order going to come down for the white house and will secretary mattis embrace it? guys. >> hans nichols, thank you so much. mika, a lot more questions right now than answers. >> so many. coming up, nancy pelosi's path to reclaiming the speaker's gavel may have become more difficult thanks to members of her own party. we'll explain that ahead. plus, a story that sam stein broke yesterday about president trump's acting attorney general. we'll be right back. ng attorney. we'll be right back. this is not a bed.

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a shooting at a chicago hospital claimed the lives of a police officer and two staffers yesterday. police say the gunman shot his

girlfriend, 38-year-old emergency doctor tamara o'neal in the parking lot of mercy hospital and medical center after a verbal altercation. officials say the gunman, then, ran into the hospital. officers arriving on the scene exchanged gunfire with the suspect and during that time, 28-year-old officer salariul jiminez was shot and 35-year-old dana lesk was shot and killed by the gunman, police say. the shooter is also dead. it's unclear that was self-inflicted. democrats opposing nancy pelosi as house speaker have finally gone public with that letter they've been talking about for the last several days. the letter was signed by 16 democrats, 11 current members, 4 incoming members, and utah's ben mcadams who had declared victory over mia love in a race that has not yet been call.

democrats are expected to hold 272 seats in the next congress with five races still undecided. if the current math holds, pelosi could afford to lose just 14 democrats. in addition, there are other members who say they are opposed to another papa lowsy speakership who have not signed the letter. but, jackie, we don't know even who wrote the letter. nobody is taking credit for that. so the question is, even with these 14 signatures on the letter, how strong is nancy pelosi's position inside the democratic caucus this morning? >> it's hard really to tell until a vote actually takes place here. you really can't beat somebody with nobody. and that is sort of the position we're in right now. obviously, nancy pelosi and her office are taking this very seriously. they are meeting with as many

people as possible trying to forge strong alliances and very progressive house democrats like al a alexandrea cortez is strong. but i do want to point out here that out of those 16 signees, 14 of them are men. only two of them are women. it is hard to look at this without seeing that sort of disparity. i asked michael steele, former rnc chair, if he thought these attacks on pelosi were gendered and he responded to me that people at the end of the day do have a problem with women in a position of power. a group of senate democrats have launched a legal chance against trump's appoint of matt whita whi

whitakker as acting attorney general. the lawsuit marks the third legal action challenging whitaker's appointment in less than a week. all three are seek ago federal court to rule that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein t legal and constitutional successor to former attorney general jeff sessions. >> this is your reporting in the daily beast about this lawsuit brought by the attorney general, sam. we have the vacancies reform act about whether or not there should be appointment, senate confirmation for this appointment or if the president has the right under these vacancies for 210 days to appoint whoever he wants without senate confirmation. >> i could feel the viewers flipping the channel at this point. >> no, no, they love this stuff. >> the appointments clause

versus the basic reform act. the basic premise is was he appointed unconstitutionally? can you do that for a principal officer, someone who reports directly to the president which matt whitaker would do. the senators argue no, you can't. the question they're going to have to front -- and i'm no lawyer. the question i think they're going to have to confront is whether they have standing. standing is can you prove you, of course, affected adversely by this appoints? therefore, matt whitaker cannot serve in this position. the this will go to a court, obviously. it could very well get kicked up

to the supreme court. where they will have to decide whether matt whitaker could be in that position where he is overseeing the mueller probe without any senate confirm after whatsoever. >> a lot of ground noise. we don't know how much signal is getting through. if you can, give us a quick 30,000 foot look at where the best guess is for where the mueller investigation is right now. >> the investigation is being overseen by rod rosenstein and ed ocalahan. mueller's folks are continued focus on the biggest question here of collusion. that is an investigation heavily focused on roger stone. was roger stone someone who was

simply boasting and bragging about connections he did not have or was he really talking to them and was there really coordination. if you take a step back from all of the things that have gone on that we looked at, we haven't seen an answer to that central question of collusion. you have to remember, mueller does not want to ever shut down, close up shot without turning over every single stone. >> michael schmidt, thank you so much. we appreciate that. mika, speaking of the mueller investigation, there is a great law fair article out yesterday talking about the watergate map, road map that really delves into a lot of really eerie similarities between the nixon white house and the trump white house on improper white house justice department contacts.

that's a must read. >> check it out. lawfair.com. coming up, u.s. diplomates targeted overseas by so-calleden sonic attacks, leaving them with brain injury and hearing loss. russia was thought to be the culprit, but the mystery is still unsolved. we'll have some new reporting on that, next. have some new reportn that, next you could have gone down to the nearby tree lot and picked out a nice little spruce for the holidays...

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joining us now national political reporter for nbc news, josh letterman. and andrea mitchell. they have an interview with a mother of an american diplomat who fell ill after suspected health attacks in china. what did you find? >> this international mystery has eluded investigators for two years now with the u.s. still unable to say who is doing this, why they are doing it, and what kind of weapon was used in these attacks first in cuba and later in china. but until now nobody has come

forward who has been affected by this to describe this harrowing experience. for the diplomats affected that's, frankly, because they could be fired and lose their careers if they were to come forward and talk to the media without the government's permission. now the mother of one of these diplomats is coming forward. laura hughs herself got sick and diagnosed with a traumatic brain injury after she flew to china to check up on her daughter. she said she's speaking out because others can't. take a look. >> i do not believe that our military or diplomats around the world or here at home are safe because this, this weapon system is creating havoc around the world and here at home. >> do you worry that this could happen to other diplomats in other countries? >> that's why i'm here. that is why i'm here. >> laura says she's coming

forward. she wants to raise awareness. she heard these sounds too when she was in her daughter's apartment. high pitch ringing sound as well as a low pulsing sound and she and her daughter would hear and see pulsing sensations in their head and symptoms got worse. >> this happened in china. this happened obviously in cuba. what is our government saying about it? who they suspect is responsible? >> well, initially when this was happening just in havana the suspicion fell on the cuban government with the u.s. saying nothing happens on that small island without the cuban government knowing about it or being involved. cuba and china have denied involvement. now that this is taking place in multiple countries it really has raised the question of who could be involved in this, who would have the capability to do that. we know a lot of suspicion within the u.s. government has fallen on the russian government as nbc news has reported. but as of now no firm conclusion

from the government who is doing this or how they can stop it. >> thank you very much for your coverage. jackie, thank you for being on this morning. before you go, what your looking at today >> two things, primarily today. one is the president going schedule a last minute visit to active duty troops in the combat zone, afghanistan, syria or iraq. he's slated to head to mar-a-lago at the end of today but it's always possible he could jet off in light of the criticism that he has received for not having made that trip yet. then also the report on jamal khashoggi is supposed to be released today. so i'm looking to see whether or not the president is going to yet again defy his intelligence agencies and deny that there is a direct connection between saudi crown prince and the killing of jamal khashoggi. >> jackie, who will be releasing that? the cia? the intel community?

who is releasing it. >> that's unclear but the president told chris wallace on sunday a full report would be released. the president often back tracks on his word so we'll see if it is released. >> jackie, thank you very much. coming up, will house democrats go after ivanka trump, the same way the president and house republicans went after hillary clinton for handling government business over private e-mail? and the former chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell is blasting president trump's decision to send u.s. troops to the southern border, excusing him of using the u.s. military as quote toy soldiers. we'll talk to the retired army colonel. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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and bring it down. >> every heavy book joke in my time. >> i tell you what, that actually made me a white house correspondent dinner that i will go to. that is our take on historian ron chernow who is slated to host the correspondence dinner. mika and i stopped going quite a while ago. it was uncomfortable yucking it up. i much rather celebrate great journalism, celebrate those who have done the best out of the year, and talk about the relationship between the white house and you don't need a comedian every year. you don't need the president reading somebody else's joke every year. maybe we actually go and just have a good night where we celebrate great journalism of

others. >> i haven't been in a long time either. i feel like a nerd saying this but i would love to hear ron talk about hamilton and grant. i don't know, throwing ideas out there. put the nerd back in. >> we need it. >> i listened to a lecture from ron. if we could shave hours off the dinner from my past experience that would help too. >> that would help. again, i'm serious. i'm with you. i would much rather, you know, hear ron chernow talk then, again, go to the sort of yuck fest that we've had over the past several years where it's unbecoming and this actually to me seems like we're going in a really good direction, mika. but willie and i both sound like the ultimate nerds. i can tell you david beckham feels the same way.

holiday inn on 57th gravenue. >> we're such nerds we don't go. welcome back to "morning joe". it's tuesday, november toth. we have professor at princeton university eddie jr. politics editor, stam stein. republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, did you san d -- susan delperso. and eugene robinson. and john harwood. so we begin this hour with talking about this. house democrats say they are likely to investigate white house adviser and first daughter ivanka trump for using private e-mail to conduct government business. >> they don't investigate it as aggressively as the republicans investigated hillary clinton and i suspect you're not going to see a lot of democratic crowds

chanting lock her up. >> never. >> no. >> this after her lawyer says an internal review found scores of emails about policy and official business with hundreds more relating to scheduling meetings and travel and possible violation of records law. the microsoft stored personal domain was set up in december of 2016 for trump and her husband jared kushner who is also an assistant to the president, whose use of personal e-mail for government business was first uncovered by politico last year. after liberal watchdog american oversight posted images of trump's emails obtained through the freedom of information act a supposed maen for her lawyer said a review with the white house counsel began in september of 2017. quote, while transitioning into the white house, miss trump sometimes used her private

account, almost always for logistics and scheduling concerning for her family. to address misinformation being peddled about miss trump's personal e-mail she did not create a private server in her house or office. >> but that's irrelevant. she created an e-mail account, a domain account with her husband right before she went to the white house, which is what hillary clinton did as well. >> well that seems like a thought out act. >> hillary clinton created, set up a system where she could move personal emails. now whether the server was at home or whether it was somewhere else actually seems very irrelevant to the fact that the intent was to set up a new private e-mail account. >> in 2016. >> in 2016 before going into the white house. >> weren't they screaming lock her up about temp males. >> for a year and a half. they claimed there was no

classified information transmitted. gene robinson let me go to you. this is sounding familiar. that's what hillary clinton said at the u.n. press conference, nobody trusted her. it's not the press's responsibility to trust the white house and certainly not the responsibility of the press to trust the attorney for a public figure who tells us we've released all the information that's relevant, which is what abby lowell said and cheryl mill said. nobody in the press or the republican party trusted them. said thank you, we'll verify, actually. same thing with classified information. we don't know. but we knew one thing, gene, ivanka trump was on notice. jared kushner was on notice. the entire trump administration was on notice that this was a violation of public record laws. >> and why were they on notice?

because we had just gone through month after month after month of harping on hillary clinton's emails, and what she did and the fact that she ran her e-mail correspondence through this private domain. and so, how could she not know? of course she knew. the thing that just gets me about the story, december 2016. i mean, you know, getting ready to go into the white house. this is a willful deliberate violation of what she had to know unless and frankly she's dumb as a brick, she had to know that this was a violation. it's just stunning and now abby lowell says in effect trust us, we've gone through and we've made sure that there was nothing untowards and no classified information and no this and that, it was just scheduling and

no one could possibly believe that without verification. >> right. by the way everybody knows she's brilliant. ask her father. he'll tell you how brilliant ivanka trump she is and what school she went to. she ingredient to great schools. very intelligent woman. she knew better. susan, i will now ask the shortest question in the history of "morning joe," which is not even a question. two words. you respond. the hypocrisy? >> it is. of course there needs tube thorough investigation as to what was done, what was her classification for documents. the other thing that's interesting here and i think we shouldn't lose light of by the way sides it's so easy to go after her on the everyone males it shows this family believes they get to play one set of rules that's different from everybody else and not showing the tax returns is the same type of thing.

not showing where you may have a conflict of interest is no different deciding which set of emails you'll give to the government when they realize you have your own server. i don't think they need to be blown out of control. i think these are easy things to do. and let's see what rules the trumps are playing by. >> it's one of the first rules of modern since e-mail came into our lives of politics and government, government business on government e-mail. people know that. ivanka trump is a smart woman. she knows it well. let's put it in that context coming right off the back of an athletics in november 2016. a lot of this began reportedly during the transition of the hillary clinton e-mail affair of lock her up, of crooked hillary. the thrust of the trump campaign was all that hillary was corrupt because she a private server in

her house. >> we're attributing that the critique of hillary clinton was principled and not politically motivated. let's assume that's true. what we see here with ivanka trump and what we see with donald trump more generally is that they don't care about the rules. they only care about themselves. they don't play by the rules. they play by their own rules. it's almost as if we have -- we've elected a bunch of bureaucrats to do whatever they want to do. >> they don't under the system. >> that's a generous read. they downed but they don't care. >> here's the deal. we've said time and again, eddie, that so much of what donald trump does is just out of ignorance. he's never read history. he's never understood history. he's never cared to understand history. he still doesn't care to

understand history or what constitutional norms are or what a president can and cannot do, what the president should or shouldn't do. in this case you bring up a great point. they knew. they knew because they were leading chants for a year and a half to imprison a political opponent because she used a private e-mail server for public business. in fact, donald trump brought it up at the second debate. said he was going to get an independent counsel to investigate it. said he was going to lock her up. there is no way, these trumps, they don't understand government. they never did understand government. they don't care to understand government. i know firsthand. they think they are smarter than everybody else. that they are not -- they are not chained to history. well, they are. but in this case, she knew better. and she chose to break the law anyway. you're exactly right.

>> you know, again, at some point -- in this instance you're right. she knew what she was doing and did it anyway. in the context of donald trump not knowing, ignorance of the law is no excuse. we're constantly letting him off the hook because he doesn't know. that's not true. we're not letting him off the hook. we excuse him in some ways because of his igforrance. there's a way in which he operates that's generally selfish, always self-interested, he'll find end around and whether he knows or not he's going to act. >> i'm not saying it was an excuse. what i meant to get at is this is what happens when you elect somebody who is not qualified for the job. this goes to a bigger picture. ivanka trump, everyone knew about the e-mail issues. this is why electing someone who is not capable and doesn't understand how government works is so dangerous and why we find

ourselves where we are today because this man like joe said has no regard for history, has no regard for the law, doesn't care to understand any principle or any of america's values. he just goes off with whatever comes off the top of his head. >> absolutely. >> i talked to a washington, d.c. native last night watching donald trump speaking and his comment to me was we seriously out of all the people that ever thought about running for president of the united states, we elected the man least qualified and most ignorant of how government runs. >> it's amazing. >> it really is quite remarkable who the american people voted for in 2016. of course he lost to popular vote by almost 3 million votes and never get elected to anything again. still remarkable he was elected. but, you know, john harwood, there is the fact that the

american voters did hold donald trump accountable for so many of his actions in 2017 and 2018 and the election last week we got breaking news overnight now we fine that mia love actually has fallen behind in utah. she was expected a day or two ago to win that seat. looks like yet another seat tipping in the democratic balance. let's talk about the arrogance of the republicans. voting in california, voting in new jersey, voting in other hi-tech states like virginia for donald trump's tax plan, which actually ended up being a massive tax increase for a lot of residents of those states. there are "times" reporting, that's really come back to haunt those republicans. >> no question about it. and i think you made exactly the right point. people commonly say well trump does x bad thing and he gets

away with it. well he's not getting away with it. look at his approval rating. he's the most unpopular president that we've had in his first term. they are, got hammered in the election. he's going to be a very weak nominee in 2020, if, in fact, he runs. i suspect he'll end up not running. robert mueller is preparing to swing a very large sledge hammer at the trump white house and donald trump knows it. that's why he's so antsy. so i don't think he's getting away with things. i do think it is clear as you guys were saying that donald trump is somebody who embodies what is the opposite of public service. he is in the business of self-service, and i also think just on this e-mail situation with ivanka, it is plain that that was an entirely, almost entirely disingenuous scandal

during 2016. i don't think democrats are going to spend a whole lot of time flapping their gums about ivanka trump's emails simply because they are different from republicans. republicans used that as a tool. democrats, i think, in the majority, in the congress are going to decide that they got bigger fish to fry than being as disingenuous as the republicans were about hillary clinton's emails. >> well, john, what about the new york city? what about "the washington post" >> what about the "wall street journal"? what about the top newspapers in the land with some of the best reporters in america? they certainly pursued that investigation aggressively. shouldn't they pursue ivanka trump? >> look i think the media has got a lot to answer for about the 2016 campaign. it was obvious to me during most of the 2016 campaign that the hillary clinton e-mail scandal was about one thing.

it's about her protection of information and by the way, public officials generally try to evade transparency as much as possible. it is very common for people either to use private e-mail, or not use e-mail. this is why mitt romney got rid of his state emails when he ran for president. why josh holly didn't use e-mail when he was attorney general of missouri because they don't want things to be subject to search. you hear these excuses from ivanka trump, this was about scheduling. don't we remember that hillary clinton said well half the emails that i didn't turn over is about yoga classes and that sort of thing. >> yoga and wedding plans. there's so many parallels. >> we made vicious fun of her. >> i don't think democrats are likely to respond to the disingenuous use of this issue

in 2016 by doubling down on that themselves. i think they are going to make the hypocrisy point. they will do a diminimus investigation and show what was done here. they know it's not that important, the issue of what kind of e-mail you do. >> john, i disagree. what if we find out there was conflict of interest with her personal business interests or with jared? there could be something. >> the whole administration is shot through with conflict of interest. we already know that. >> welcome to the democrats running the house and we'll be able to actually call them out on conflicts of interest, the democrats will. >> i agree with you 100%. i think it's not about emails. donald trump is trying to make money off the presidency. ivanka trump is trying to make money off of her dad's presidency. there's no question about that. all of that is going exposed. but the manner of communications is the least important part of it.

>> you know what's so interesting is wilbur ross, there was an e-mail apparently from wilbur ross, willie geist, unless wilbur ross is handling scheduling of tennis for the kids in the afternoon, not so sure that some of this doesn't border on business. like i said last hour there are rules pertaining to communication of public officials for a reason, and public records are supposed to be public, and you're supposed to create, of course, a record for it and that wasn't done here just like it wasn't done with hillary clinton. >> i don't know how you can say it's not a big deal. >> the bottom line again is we don't know what is in the emails the same with hillary clinton. she was kansas city. worth pursuing those to see what's there. it's worth pursuing what's inside these emails from ivanka trump who is not just the first daughter, she's the senior adviser to the president of the united states, somebody who is

closer to anybody to the president. it's worth pursuing. the press will continue to pursue it. sam stein, i point to the state of new jersey where taxes are huge and it's a big burden and it's a huge voting issue for a lot of resident there's. tom mcafter sure the republican lost his seat. he was the only person in new jersey to vote for the tax bill. so clearly it hurt a lot of people. >> yeah. is it correlation or causation? he was one of the principal authors of the house bill, the obamacare repeal bill that ultimately made it through the chamber. so was that more important to his defeat than the tax bill? i don't know. then you could also say was this election really a repudiation on

donald trump. i don't know what the main factor was. i'm sorry to refer back to the ivanka story but there's an important data point to add on. this is a two tier story. one is about the regulations of governance. do you abide by them. clearly in this case ivanka should have known better, should have done better. this was a dominant issue. the second tier of the story is how did the media handles an issue like this. to john's point was it somewhat overblown in 2016? in my opinion, it was a little bit overblown but will there be consistency of coverage is the question mark. that's what joe is getting at. i did a cursory search. in the first hour of "fox & friends" this morning, a station that just obsessed for the hillary clinton investigation, in the first hour there was one mention of ivanka trump and it was a news flash quoting her lawyer, you know, criticizing "the washington post" story. so ten seconds maybe.

>> that's fantastic. >> that i think is the frustration that people have here is that the media really did obsess over the clinton story in 2016. will the same people who thought it was such a big story then consider it such a big story now >> they won't. >> they will not. >> i don't think they will. >> i thought it was a big story then. and i think it's a big story now. >> you can go back -- hold on a second. you can go back and hear what we said right after hillary clinton's u.n. press conference and we said she needs to come forward, she needs to just say hey this is what i did, this is why i did. i've been chased by republicans for years now. maybe i shouldn't have set it up. >> or whatever. >> i apologize and then move on. we can talk about how the press may have overstepped but it's an incomplete story. if you don't talk about hillary clinton and her closest advisors

and supporters said that time and time again that she just wouldn't do what was required to get the story behind her. so, yes, maybe the press overreacted in some ways. certainly once again, though, the clinton instinct, first destroy 33,000 emails and then not answer basic questions early on. john harwood, i know you will disagree. >> well, no, i partially disagree. look, i think the decision by hillary clinton to have a private server and do her nonclassified e-mail off of the state department nonclassified system was about trying to protect her information and the fact as you just said she had been pursued by republicans for years and she's kind of paranoid. that was a problem that she had in her leadership. she wasn't able to be open and authentic and it crippled her candidacy. however, i do -- on mika's point i'm not saying the emails may

not be important for ivanka trump or for hillary clinton for that matter depending on what's in them. when we saw the hillary emails released it was all a nothing burger, nothing significance there, the classified, the existence ever some trivial amount of classified information and that classified stuff that was in there was kind of trivial showed that it was empty as a scandal. now, if ivanka trump was actually using that private e-mail to do the self-serving private money making actions that we're looking at right now in terms of what's already in the public record, yes that will be important. it depends on the content of the e-mail, not the fact that you have a private e-mail, or use g-mail as opposed to your government account. >> well, it will be interesting. i think it's worth looking into

that's for certain. john harwood, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," president trump's unfounded attacks against a decorated military veteran is echoed by the official account of the republican party. >> it's so shameful. so shameful they do that to a navy s.e.a.l. legend. the republican party's official account attacks a navy s.e.a.l., an american hero who was in charge of the killing of osama bin laden. think about that republicans when somebody asks you to write your next check to the republican party. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. that's tough to do. schwab does it. next question. do you offer a satisfaction guarantee? a what now? a satisfaction guarantee. like schwab does. man: (scoffing) what are you teaching these kids?

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on twitter yesterday the president repeated his belief that the u.s. should have caught bin laden more quickly writing of course we should have captured osama bin laden long before we did. i pointed him out in my book just before the attack on the world trade center. president clinton famously missed his shot. we paid pakistan billions of dollars and never told us he was living there. fools. and the republican national committee is echoing the president's criticism. in a tweet from its official gop account the gop writes worth noting after recent comments retired admiral william mcraven was reportedly on hick's short list for vice president in 2016. he's been critical of president trump. he's hardly a none political figure. back in 2015 mcraven did criticize president trump's muslim ban but none on hillary

clinton's short list for vice president but he was considered for a top trump administration job. >> let's stop there again. >> oh, my lord. >> donald trump, there are people who say give us an example of donald trump's lies. >> all of them. >> when they come every day, so you ask the question, it shows your ignorance or bad faith for asking. give us an example of donald trump lying. he lies every day. here he's lying, by the way, friends about a navy s.e.a.l.. an american hero who was responsible in large part after he got the orders, responsible in large part for the killing of a terrorist who actually launched the worst attack of the united states in, my god, what? since the war of 1812. killed over 3,000 americans. and is an american hero by any standard. and donald trump's lying about

him. and get this, the republican party, the grand old party, their official twitter feed lying about this american hero. gene robinson, what's happened to the republican party that they feel -- they feel they have license to lie about and slander an american hero, a navy s.e.a.l. who killed osama bin laden? >> you know, you would have to call it -- the party sold its soul. >> how many times, those and how low does it go, gene? how low does it go? >> i don't know. my column today, you know,ed ehe adrianza -- advises republicans to flee the sinking ship. donald trump's whole act has jumped ashore and getting

frantic and desperate and pathetic and we see an example of him attacking mcraven in this way. the idea that the official account, that an official statement from the republican party would echo this slander, this libel against mcraefen appalling and i can't believe people who have been republicans all their lives, who have believed in the party, who believed in the party when the party believed in something, could stand for this. and just don't just rise up in revolt and say this is not who we are. apparently it is who you are. this is what you want. one detail, by the way, the president in his subsequent tweet says well i pointed it out in my book. we should remember that donald trump a, didn't write any of his books, and b, may not have even

read all of his books. so whoever is the co-author or ghost writer was on that book was surely the one who made that passion reference to osama bin laden. it was not donald trump. >> we also need to point out that donald trump said so many things that constantly conflicted with each other. he was against the war in iraq before he was for the war in iraq before he was against the war in iraq. ers against david duke before he didn't know who david duke was, before he knew who david duke was. his past words mean nothing just like willie his current words manner nothing. again, you would think that the republican party, after taking its worst beating in the house since watergate, after losing more governorships than any political party in a quarter century, after losing over 300 seats legislative seats across the nation, state legislative seats across the nation, after losing the popular votes by almost 8% nationwide, it will probably end up being over 8%

nationwide that they would stop following donald trump down into the muck and mud. here they are the official republican party slamming a navy s.e.a.l., lying about him, slandering him, calling him a political figure, saying he was on hillary clinton's short list for vice president when he wasn't, and overlooking the fact that he actually was considered as part of donald trump's administration just a couple of years ago. >> it's so pathetic, joe. so pathetic, the blind futility. if you don't want to criticize the president of the united states, okay. but sit it out. you don't have to jump on attacks on a navy s.e.a.l. who led the mission to kill osama bin laden. it's just truly pathetic is the only word i can come up with. i have to won, joe, what republicans in all those places you talked about, suburbs, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, all across the midwest and in suburbs across the country, wonder what are they thinking when they see their

party, the one they signed up with putting out a statement like that supporting the president's attack on this man and there's so much that's wrong what the president said. mcraven was not on the short list. he was actually not responsible, i don't want to get too deep in the wind. he was responsible of carrying out the mission which is one of the most daring missions and most successful. i should add an addendum. the president didn't really warn about osama bin laden, you'll be shocked to hear in that book, he almost dismissed him as a threat to the country. there's so much wrong with what was said there. but as i say, susan, as a life long republican, i have to wonder what people like you think when you see that statement by the republican party? >> it's disgraceful. just what i thought when i saw the rnc supporting rory moore and said at that time you cannot give money to the national

party. and what we do have to recognize is the national party is an extension of donald trump. what i'm looking to see is a republican, whether state parties coming out against its, coming out against what the president said. elected officials. those are the people who are supposed to be leading. i don't approve of it but i understand when you hand pick the chairman of the national republican party, of course they are going to do what the president wants because otherwise they will get fired. not acceptable. where are all the other voice? i don't mean just people like me, i mean elected officials. state parties who go out there, have their lincoln day dinners coming up. who are looking to do things and say that we need to increase our party to the country. now we've turned away women, suburbans and now veterans? i just don't understand why people aren't speaking up. i sometimes wonder did i just come in from another planet and

just don't understand where i am right now. >> susan, some did but they came out in support of mcraven not denouncing what the president has done. i don't get it. i don't get it. >> and by the way, the republicans, though, should get it because, again, you look at what happened last tuesday, mika. they got hammered politically. >> they should get it. >> they are going to get hammered again in 20 20 if they don't wake up fast. when somebody attacks an american s.e.a.l., an american hero that led a daring raid against osama bin laden and you don't call out your president for saying that, you're setting yourself up to get hammered two years from now in the 2020 elections. it will happen. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> i don't think anybody has been more with the military than i have as a president in terms of funding, in terms of all the things i got them including the vets. i don't think anybody has done

more than me. >> president trump says he loves the military. but our next guest an army veteran says what trump is doing at the border is a betrayal. "morning joe" will be right back. be right back ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer. the pressure cooker that crisps. it's the best of pressure cooking and air frying all in one so in as little

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>> david pekoske >> david pekoske

. two days ago president trump tweeted that the united states is quote ill prepared for this invasion of migrants coming from south america. now just as the first caravans have begun to arrive, some of the 5800 active duty troops president trump ordered there are set to come home. joining us now retired army colonel and former chief of staff to secretary of state colin powell, lawrence wilkerson, a professor of government and public policy at the college of william & mary. colonel, good morning. thank you for being with us. you and two colleagues have a new piece out in the "new york times" trump's border stunt is a prosunday betrayal of our military. you write mr. trump's announcement and the deployment that followed were probably perfectly legal. but we are a bipartisan threesome with decades of experience in and with the pentagon and to us this act creates a dangerous precedent.

the president used the military force not against a real athlete but as toy soldiers with intent to manipulating a mid-term election outcome and unprecedented use of the military by a sitting president. some aspects of the deployment is defensible. one is not. that is the domestic political use or misuse of the military. the deployment is a stunt, a dangerous one and in our view a misuse of the military that should have led mr. mattis to consider resigning instead of acceding to this blatant politicization of america's military. we've been asking that question all along where general mattis has been in this process? >> first of all, let me say i'm very happy, although the points you just made is relevant, they are coming home now because some of these troops will now get to spend thanksgiving with their families and i suspect some of

them haven't done that for a long time. the second point is that political stunts are things that happen. i mean politics and the military are interwoven. let's take my old boss. remember when he said to the american people about the first gulf war, first we're going cut it off and then we're going to kill it. but that was the use of politic, if you will, for the right purposes, to get the american people behind a u.n., united nations security council resolution to gelt saddam hussein out of kuwait, to reverse the aggression. something we set in the 1950s the u.n. up to do and we did that and then we left. so that was a political stunt as it were that was in concert with the use of the military by tradition and custom and precedent. to use the military in order to influence the mid-term elections

on your party's behalf which is precisely why donald trump did what he did, is unconscionable and it is a violation of all the military customs and tradition that has made this country great and made the military in it great. so it's very dangerous precedent to set. just imagine, for example, that suddenly donald trump sees terrorists in america. domestic terrorists. or hezbollah. or hamas. or whatever he might call them. we now have an addition to the 2011 national defense authorization act that allows the president to suspend the law that says you can't use the military for domestic law enforcement unless there are certain circumstances pertinent like the nation is collapsing. now the president can call those forces out if he quote sees material support to terrorism or to suppress that support, unquote. this is a very dangerous precedent to set.

using the armed forces of the united states for domestic political reasons is an should be verb torch em. >> when general mattis visited the border last week he was asked what are you doing here. he said in the short term you're laying down wire. in the long term we don't know. i think what a lot of people are wondering they think about guardrails around this presidency, they thought general mattis would be one of the strongest of those. i understand "chain of command". i understand that the president is the commander-in-chief. but is there something more or should there have been something more than general mattis might have done here? >> i really empathize and sympathize with general mattis. he's in an untenable position. remember i served colin powell during some very difficult times. i know, i know in my heart, in my soul that colin powell probably always thought about,

or periodically at thought why should i leave, why shouldn't i leave. i know what the rationalize is. if i leave someone worse will leave me. if i leave sanity leave. if i leave common sense leaves. that's what jim is telling himself now. i've been in minds like that. i've seen these kind of circumstance at the highest levels of power and you tell yourself you're indefensible. given the circumstances the nation confronts today with this president maybe he is. so i can understand why he would not leave, although at the same time i wish he would make a more powerful statement. >> sir, if i could take that point that you're making a step further and help us understand what might be happening, maybe

perhaps some peace of mind. if you're doing the math and saying if i leave common sense leaves so i'm going to stay but then you're carrying out something that's clearly not common sense. something that is clearly not addressing a threat. something that is a political ploy. built should you be? tell me what should be -- >> let's face it we went to the united nations on february 2003 and presented a case for iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction that most of us felt was suspicious. we have been confronted by the principled intelligence agencies of the united states, frans, germany, jordan, israel in a concerted way and who are we to dispute that. >> so what would you say if you were in general mattis' position, we're confronted by this, therefore i'm going carry out. what's the threat? what would you have done if you were in charge of sending troops to the border?

>> i'm a passionate dude, mika. i would have resign. i should have resigned before i went to the u.n. with colin powell. i will regret that to my grave. but i'm also a practical person who has been at the highest levels of power and i can tell you immediately that any resignation such as that, jim mattis now, for example, last two seconds in the media, maybe a week, maybe two weeks at the most and we'll go on to the same rat race we're in right now with accusations on both sides of the political aisle and nobody believing the other. so it's easy to reconcile yourself to the fact that you are the person who is maintaining in a very, very dangerous position, if you will, sobriety and sanity, and you stay and you weather the reputational damage that that does to you and i think general mattis is having massive

reputational damage done to himself and i suspect that it will increase before either he or the president decides to terminate the relationship. >> colonel lawrence wilkerson with some clear thoughts this morning. morning. thank you so much for being with us. still ahead, we'll get a live report from the only state that still has a senate seat up for grabs. that is mississippi. democrats still have a chance there. already a major story. "morning joe" is coming right back. r story. "morning joe" is coming right back this is not a bed.

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when the senate map is in the democrats' favor and trump's outrages will have multiplied and mounted even more. people are getting sick of this act, this sort after pathetic, frantic act. it's getting worse and worse. not for the first time, but i'm advising republicans to look around. like that tweet they sent out in support of his attack on mcraven, that's just outrageous. if they continue doing stuff like that, they're going to follow limb righim right down t. still ahead, yet another judge rules against the trump administration, this time ordering the document to accept asylum claims from migrants regardless of where they enter the country. plus, donald trump said hillary clinton should be in prison for handling government business on private e-mail. what will he say now that his

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>> who knew. you obviously have a lot of the same questions that came up when hillary clinton's e-mail issue came out. we're going to be talking about that. we also have, though, again, we've talked about this a good bit, the institutions holding -- you've had over the past three days three federal judges saying no to donald trump, ruling against donald trump's interests. it happened again last night. so a lot to cover today. >> along with joe, willie and me, we have professor ap princeton university eddie glau jr., sam stein and author of the "washington post's" early morning newsletter "power up." jackie almenny is with us. a federal judge has blocked the trump administration from barring asylum for migrants who enter the country outside a legal point of entry. president trump issued a proclamation stating that anyone

who crossed the southern border illegally would be inel jeigibl for asylum. that was challenged by the aclu and the center for constitutional rights. the federal judge ruled the policy is likely a violation of federal asylum law. the block remains in effect until december 19th, at which point the court will consider arguments for a permanent order. while this judge was appointed by president obama, his decision comes after two other federal judges appointed by president trump ruled against the white house. on friday, u.s. district court judge timothy kelly said the white house had violated a cnn reporter's fifth amendment right to due process by suspending his press badge without explanation or a chance to appeal the decision. and on thursday, trump appointee dabney frederick refused a request to toss out a case by

special counsel robert mueller against a russian business accused of helping to fund moscow's efforts to meddle in the 2016 election. joe, you're right. it appears there are systems holding. >> the line is holding. willie geist, the institutions are holding. you go around the world and you really try to figure out what's different from our constitutional republic and other forms of government. at the end of the day, it comes down to an independent judiciary. and here you have two trump appointees in three days actually ruling against the president's interests. one in a high profile case like across that's case in cnn. i guarantee there's not a ruling that the president would have rather won than that one. you know what, actually a lot of these federalist society judges that are getting appointed, they've read the constitution. they're originalists and some of them are going to be the last ones to be bowled over by this

president. >> this will short circuit the president's brain because he views all these judicial institutions as in service of him. he believes they're there to serve the president of the united states. when he appoints somebody, he believes they're there to protect him. see jeff sessions for example as attorney general. this will confuse him quite a bit. i'm sure we'll see some tweets about it. this is the question we've asked since january of 2017, are the american institutions that have been around for 250 years strong enough to, where appropriate, stand up to one man as he bulldozes his way across the country. and in several cases we've seen the answer has been yes. you're right, on this ruling of the white house now with jim acosta, the white house then in reaction put out a list of new guidelines of how the press can conduct itself in the white house briefing room, no follow-ups, you've got to pass the mike when you're finished. we'll see if the white house presentation corps abides by this, but the white house always

trying to find ways around whatever legislative or judicial rule goes up against them. >> we don't know whether judges are going to be required to get involved in the future. in a story that the "washington post" broke last night regarding ivanka trump's e-mails, but boy, a lot more questions than answers this morning. >> yes, definitely. i'd say this goes in the category of hypocrisy. ivanka trump's lawyer says an internal review found scores of e-mails about policy and official business with hundreds more related to scheduling meetings and travel. >> hold on a second. this is the same ivanka trump who's related to donald trump. >> she works for him. >> who -- >> said lock her up. >> yeah. had everybody at conventions and

everybody at campaign events chanting "lock her up." and they're still chanting it based on hillary clinton actually using private e-mail. is that the same family? >> it's the same family. it's in possible violation of records law. i will just point out that i can't imagine anyone on this show or anywhere that we might talk to screaming "lock her up." >> of course, no. >> that would be so untoward. >> that would be donald trump and his constitutionally challenged audiences who obviously have never read the constitution. at least they didn't set up a private domain account, a personal domain account before they went to washington like hillary did. >> the microsoft stored personal domain was set up in december 2016. >> oh wait. >> for ivanka trump and her husband jared. >> i take that part back. so they did that too?

>> who is also an assistant to the president whose use of personal e-mail for government business was uncovered by politico last year after images of trump's e-mails were obtained through the freedom of information act. a spokesman for her lawyer said a review with the white house council began in 2017. quote, while transitioning into government, while the white house provided her the same guidance they had to others who started before she did, ms. trump sometimes used her private account almost always for logistics. you mean like yoga and wedding planning? that's what hillary said. i didn't think that worked. to address misinformation being peddled about ms. trump's personal e-mail, she did not create a private server in her house or office. there was never a classified information transmitted. >> how do we know? >> the account was never

transferred or housed at trump organization. >> so? >> no e-mails were ever deleted. >> how do we know? >> and the e-mails have been retained in the official account in conformity with records preservation laws and rules. >> how do we know? >> because they say so? that's what hillary said and she was panned in the press. >> everything single thing they just said about no confidential e-mails, all relevant e-mails were turned over. that's everything hillary said at that horrific united nations press conference. so they could be telling the truth, but how do we know? we don't. >> sources tell the "washington post" that trump's attorney forwarded e-mails that he determined were related to official business to trump's government account. >> hold on a second. so we have cheryl mills, a democratic lawyer, forward chg e-ma -- forwarding which e-mails she thought were relevant.

and now abby lowell forwarding e-mails he thought were relevant. a little parallel here. >> of course they made the same claim, that classified information was never sent over her server, which the fbi later debunked. clinton also had a private team to sort through the e-mails to determine which ones were and were not relevant. here's what the president thought about that back then. >> i guarantee you one thing. we're going to be talking about those e-mails every moment of every day. crooked hillary's e-mails. unless hillary gets indicted, which in all fairness she should be. how can hillary manage this country when she can't even manage her e-mails? this is the biggest scandal since watergate. she lied like a dog on her e-mails. she should be in prison. so we're going to get a special prosecutor and we're going to

look into it. >> it's just awfully good that someone with the temperament of donald trump is not in charge of the law in our country. >> yeah. because you'd be in jail. >> so maybe it's too obvious to say but i'm going to say it anyway. i am, after all, the master of the obvious. as a senior government official, ivanka trump had the same obligation to do her government work on government e-mail servers, as hillary clinton did when she was a public servant. public record are public. they have to be preserved. no one is expecting her father and his constitutionally challenged followers to start screaming for ivanka to be locked up. but it is not too much to hold ivanka trump to the same standard of skepticism and the same standard of inquiry that we demanded in the press for over a year in the case of hillary clinton. ivanka's spokesman told the post that her case was totally

different from hillary's. quote, no classified information was ever included, no e-mails were ever deleted. well, those were two of the distinctions he made, but of course that's what hillary clinton said in her u.n. press conference about classified information. remember that? and we don't know what was deleted. we don't know what was not deleted. we don't know what was turned over. we don't know what was not turned over. we have no idea if what ivanka trump's lawyers are saying is true, any more than we had any idea whether what cheryl mills was telling us about hillary clinton's e-mails were true or not. we just don't. if you're saying we do, then you're a hack. and you're an idealogue. let's hook at the facts. ivanka trump, like hillary clinton, is asking you to believe that her lawyer acted in the public interest alone and

not in his client's interest when he decided which e-mails he would choose from her private account to belatedly make part of the official government record. and it was ivanka trump's lawyer and ivanka trump's democratic lawyer alone who decided which ones he would hold back. now, ivanka's lawyers claim nothing was deleted. maybe he's telling the truth, maybe he's not. as we sit here this morning, there's no reason for any of the media to be any less aggressive in the search for truth regarding ivanka trump's private e-mails than everybody was for hillary clinton's for a year and a half. when the new congress gets sworn in, the house oversight committee, they need to seek nothing less of ivanka trump and her lawyers and the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, just like, mika, everybody did with hillary. and we will pick it up right there with "new york times" reporter michael schmitt. we'll be right back. michael sct we'll be right back. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." now to those new developments surrounding ivanka trump and her use of private e-mail for government business. let's bring in "new york times" reporter michael schmitt. what parallels do you see between ivanka and hillary clinton's e-mails? >> reporter: they're very similar as you guys were pointing out. the question is whether democrats will do what republicans did to clinton. they sent a letter back in 2015 saying, hey, can you go and look at this stuff and see if anything is classified. that's what ultimately tripped up clinton. the democrats could go back to this inspector general and say, hey, could you guys just take a look at these e-mails and see if there's anything classified.

and that is what got the ball rolling on the fbi investigation. i find it hard to believe that the democrats wouldn't try and do that here because they would say, oh look, you know, who knows what's classified. the thing that we learned from clinton's e-mails is there's a lot of things that can easily be classified. they found an enormous amount of classified information. so who knows what's in ivanka's e-mails, but the intelligence community often can find something that's classified. >> you know, sam stein, hillary clinton was secretary of state. >> a little different. >> but ivanka trump has a much choser relati closer relationship with the president of the united states than hillary did with barack obama. there was almost a chinese wall between those two. in this case, you have ivanka going around, sitting in for her father at world conferences, sitting next to angela merkel. you've got certainly her husband spending weekends with mbs at

critical times in his administration right before he begins to clamp down and starts torturing people at the ritz carlton in riyadh. she has far more access to the president of the united states than hillary clinton ever did in the obama administration. >> yeah. and michael hits on a very interesting point here, which is that what lay people may think is mundane and nonsense information could actually be deemed classified. there is a problem with overclassification, but there's a lot of information that's in transit that end up getting classified for that reason, because they are conversations that could have very sensitive information that you just don't think of as sensitive information. to your point, ivanka is not a junior official. she's a senior official. she is in touch with her father. and jared of course has his non-security as well.

trump w donald trump was using a nonsecure cell phone in these conversations, left his cell phone at one point reportedly on his golf cart. so the collective mishandling of sensitive information and lines of communication is remarkable. there are differences between these stories between hillary and ivanka but will people who are very critical of hillary clinton and not just in the moment critical, but the sustained criticism of her e-mail habits over months and months and months, will they speak out now about ivanka? will they demand investigations? will they pursue that critical coverage? if they don't, what does that say about what kind of media ecosystem and political ecosystem we live in. >> i heard last night people on other networks saying, well, you know, jeepers, nothing to see here and we shouldn't have been so aggressive against hillary clinton and that's the lesson. no, that's not the lesson.

there are rules because there were rules. there are public record rules because they're public record rules. you know what, it wasn't a mistake to try to figure out if hillary clinton was reckless with classified information. maybe it went on too long. maybe the press was too aggressive. i don't know. we'll let media professors figure that out over the next 20-30 years. but sam, these laws are in place for a reason. and just because you're the president's daughter or just because you feel like republicans are too aggressive against you if you're hillary clinton doesn't excuse somebody from breaking the law. >> in fact, it's almost worse in a way because we had this collective outrage over what hillary clinton did. >> right. >> the idea that ivanka would go into the administration and not have an idea that using a public e-mail system was necessary as part of the job is laughable.

she either was willfully dumb about it or just decided the rules didn't necessarily apply to her. now, we need more information. obviously she didn't use a private e-mail exclusively, but what kind of information was she pushing through her private account? was it sensitive, was it classified? and second darryllsecond, will ? will they feel at liberty to speak out either about their past criticisms of hillary or about the current practices of ivanka. coming up on "morning joe," a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning, including new details on nancy pelosi's fight on capitol hill. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." l be right b more "morning joe. ♪

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a shooting at a chicago hospital claimed the lives of a police officer and two staffers yesterday. police say the gunman shot his girlfriend, 38 year old emergency room doctor tamara o'neill in the parking lot of

mercy hospital after a verbal altercation. officials say the gunman then ran into the hospital. officers arriving on the scene then exchanged gunfire with the suspect. and during that time, 28-year-old officer samuel jimenez was shot and later died. 25-year-old pharmacy resident dana less was also shot and killed by the gunman, police say. the shooter is also dead. although it's unclear if that was self-inflicted. zbh democrats opposing nancy pelosi as house speaker have finally gone public with that letter they've been talking about. the letter was signed by 16 democrats, 11 current members, four incoming members and utah's ben mcadams who has declared victory over republican congresswoman mia love in a race that has not yet been called. democrats are expected to hold 232 seats in the next congress with five races still undecided.

if the current math holds and no member votes present, pelosi could afford to lose just 14 democrats. in addition, there are other members who say they are opposed to another pelosi speakership who have not signed the letter. >> of course we don't know even who wrote the letter. nobody's taking credit for that. so i guess the question is even with these 14 signatures on the letter, how strong is nancy pelosi's position inside the democratic caucus this morning? >> i mean, it's hard really to tell until a vote actually takes place here. but i just want to come back to somethi something, which is that you really can't beat somebody with nobody. that's sort of the position we're in right now. ort of the p we're in right now they are meeting with as many people as possible strtrying to

forge strong alliances. you see house democrats like alexandria ocasio-cortez saying in her opinion pelosi is the most progressive out of the options although there aren't too many options that have have presented themselves. i do want to point out here that out of those 16 signees, 14 of them are men, only two of them are women. it is really hard to look at this without seeing that disparity. i asked michael steele if he thought these attacks on pelosi were gendered. he said at the end of the day, people do have a problem with women in a position of power. a group of democrats have launched a legal challenge against president trump's appointment of matt whittaker as acting attorney general. they filed their lawsuit in washington, d.c. they argue the move by the president violates the constitution because whittaker has not been confirmed by the

senate. the lawsuit marks the third legal action challenging whittaker's appointment in less than a week. all three are seeking a federal court to rule that deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is the legal and constitutional successor to former attorney general jeff sessions. coming up on "morning joe," new reporting says the white house is discussing a possible presidential visit to troops in iraq or afghanistan. >> oh that's good. >> but according to the "washington post," trump has spoken privately about his fears over risks to his own life. >> oh. okay. >> we'll talk about that straight ahead. >> we'll talk about that straight ahead

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♪ with millions of votes left to count, the democrats' margin

in the national popular vote continues to climb, now reaching 7.8% in house races. democrats are on track to have the largest house popular vote margin by either party in a midterm since 1986. nbc news has just declared democrat torres-small the apparent winner in new mexico flipping the seat and raising democratic gains in the house to 38. and an update in california east 21st district will democratic challenger tj cox has pulled within a thousand votes of the republican congressman. there are still thousands of ballots left to be counted. the next update is expected on monday, november 26th.

> earlier we mentioned the race for utah's fourth congressional district, which has flipped again. ben mcadams, the democrat, has pulled ahead of republican congresswoman mia love as mcadams received stronger than expected numbers out of salt lake county. mcadams leads love by 739 votes out of more than 269,000 cast. claiming victory last night, mcadams stated, we are confident there is no way representative love will retake the lead. love has not conceded and mcadams said he hopes to speak with her today. and there is still one senate seat left to be decided with the special election in mississippi one week away. republican senator cindy hyde-smith received a donation from a businessman in washington state known for his white supremacist views. peter zee donated $2700 just

days after hyde-smith's remark that she would be in the front row of a public hanging. a source tells nbc news the donation was made online and returned. hyde-smith and mike espy are set to meet in their first and only debate tonight. joining us from jackson mississippi, von hilliard. what are you hearing on the ground there? >> reporter: good morning. tonight is the debate between democrat mike espy and cindy hyde-smith. it's hard to feel like we're not back in november when doug jones pulled off the upset. about one-third of the electorate are black voters. i was talking with the long time democratic strategist who helped doug jones pull off that victory one year ago and he's working on

this mississippi campaign. if they're able to pull off 95% of the black vote and 25% of the white vote they're going to be able to pull off a victory in next tuesday's runoff. the question is, will they be able to pull off that chunk of white voters here across mississippi? i want to introduce you to two voters we talked to yesterday specifically about those hyde-smith comments. >> mainly because she's a conservative republican. >> reporter: what did you think of some of those videos that came out this week of hyde-smith including the one where she mentioned being in the front row for a hanging. >> i want to tell you the truth. i have not seen that. people have told me about it. i think that, you know, my opinion is that they're probably skewed the whole thing taking a lot of it out of context.

a lot of people have probably looked at it and being in mississippi and in the south, they probably had one frame of mind as to what she meant when probably she meant -- hopefully she meant something totally different. >> this will be the first time in a long time they've actually got out and willing to pay to hit the pavement because it's so important. >> why? >> this is important because we're trying to move forward and i think espy can take us there. with cindy hyde, she will push us back. she don't get it. we have overcome and they forgot to tell her. i think she didn't get the memo. >> reporter: i also talked with ardis smith and asked him about the conversations among the black community. he said there will be a higher black turnout. he said the conversation over whether she was joking or not about a public hanging resonated

with him and said as a reminder, some of my own people were lynched. this is still very real and still a part of people's memories here in mississippi. in that conversation you heard with that gentleman you first heard from, i called up a couple of white voters in different parts of the state and they said while they found her comments tto be off putting, the question is how many of them are going to be able to push those aside and ultimately still vote for cindy hyde-smith. i talked with henry barber. he's the rnc committee man here in mississippi. he told me what hyde-smith needs to do is focus on reminding the voters of mississippi that she's the conservative in this race x not mike espy, get down to the ba basics. donald trump did win by 18 percentage points here and he's going to be here with day before

the election for two campaign stops. >> joining us now walter isaacson and karen tumulti. what's going on in this race? i mean, we've got in mike espy, a former mississippi congressman, former ag secretary who fought his way into the retu runoff. what has to happen for a democrat to win in mississippi? >> we need to understand the demographics. 38% of the state is black. the demographics are better many mississippi than they were in alabama. you have to get a massive turnout. in the initial election you had chris mcdaniel in the election who pulled off about 15%.

according to my sources, those 15% really don't like cindy hyde-smith. the question is whether or not they're going to stay home. it is clear to me that espy is the best representative for the state. cindy hyde-smith just doesn't understand i think the history of the state. lynching is not something you joke about. this is not something that happened in the 19th sechblcent. this is something that happened in people's families that are still walking around that state. i think mississippi has a chance to move forward. mike espy is going to have to hit it straight down the middle if he's going to win. >> i was watching you watch the gentleman in the restaurant say well it was an offhand comment, she was probably joking. it's important to see this through your eyes because those are two completely different perspectives. what does someone like you, what does someone in your family think when you hear cindy hyde-smith make a joking comment about public hanging in mississippi? >> you know, willie, people in

the united states play fast and lo lo loose with our dead. they think think that the people who are at the bottom of the mississippi river, they just happen to be there. a colleague of mine, his father was shot in the head as he confronted a white store owner in bay st. louis, mississippi, and he had to grow up without his dad. this is nothing you joke about. what's so unsettling about the country, not just mississippi because we tend to scapegoat mississippi and exceptionalize it, is that people tend to walk so fast and loose. they just walk right past what's so deeply personal in our lives and our families, folk who have had crosses burned in their yards, folk who have had people lynched and murdered. those folks are walking around here. they might not have tattoos on their arms, but it's in their

memories. so you just can't joke about that. if you do, it reveals your moral character, that something is broken on the inside. he gave her the benefit of the doubt. i didn't. >> cindy hyde-smith has effectively rolled her eyes at criticism like what you've just presented. walter isaacson what are you looking for in this mississippi race? it's an uphill climb still for a democrat in the state of mississippi. what could tip the balance here? >> i think this is still part of our lives. i'm here in louisiana. of the way race was treated. in the african-american museum up there in washington, there's emmett till's casket with the glass cover on it. what happened in mississippi just over 60 years ago when he was killed this way, his mother said i don't want him in a closed casket. i want him put with a glass cover and brought up to chicago so people can see what happened

to my only son. and what happened after that, just weeks after that, that's when rosa parks decided not to give up her seat on the bus. it energized people. so i think these things are still alive. you know, we were in oxford, mississippi, with mika and joe a few weeks ago at faulkner's house. he wrote the past, it's not even passed. it's not gone. i think that's true. you're seeing the ghosts of the past come unap and we're tryingo exorcise those ghosts down here in the south. >> karen, i'd like to switch to another topic, if possible. i wanted to get your take on the news from the "washington post" about ivanka trump using private e-mail apparently for some work and personal use. what's your gut on this? >> it's jaw dropping that the excuse that they are giving that somehow she was not aware of the regulations suggest that she

must have been in a coma through the entire 2016 campaign. and you know, once again she's coming under the same criticism. she is playing by the same rules that they criticized hillary clinton for, that they let her personal attorney decide which of these e-mails should be turned over as part of the public domain, which were personal. ivanka trump is not only a high ranking white house official. she is the conduit to her father. so it is a pretty reasonable presumption that these e-mails will contain a lot of kind of overtures from people who are trying to influence her father on one thing or another. again, you know, if they can criticize hillary clinton's attorney for deciding what to turn over and what not to, they have now decided to play by those exact same rules.

>> yeah. walteri walter isaacson, it's hard not to -- i don't understand who you she would not understand the rules when the entire trump campaign involved her father on stage ridiculing hillary clinton for breaking those exact rules. it's absolutely impossible. so i think ivanka trump is going to have to make a choice here. is she clueless and out of it and not part of the fray and just didn't know? or did she make a premeditated choice to arrogantly use private e-mail in the white house despite the message of the campaign? >> yeah. i think this raises a larger point, which is we have to put ourselves in the shoes of -- you know, when we make things so partisan, you have to say what would you have done if the other side had done this. and here we have an exact case of that, where people were

yelling "lock her up" about hillary clinton. and now they would be defending ivanka trump. and over and over again in this administration, you think, what would people on the right have said if president obama had skipped a service for veterans of the world wars because it was raining or hadn't visited a war zone? or what would they have said if hillary clinton had allowed the federal deficit to go up to $100 billion, as it did last month? so i think as we go into thanksgiving and we try to calm down a little bit of the poison we have in our discourse, one thing we should always think is what would we have felt if a person on the other side had done it, if obama had done this, if hillary had done this. and we're getting that example here where we have ivanka trump doing the same thing that people were yelling "lock her up" when hillary had done it. >> it's interesting.

when we think about holding one side accountable, one thing we can see is that president trump has not gone overseas to visit our troops like other presidents have done. and now we almost have the rnc after it made some horrible attack on mcraven now trying to defend the president's decision not to go because of his concern about safety, but now maybe he will go. i mean, is this just nothing more than a political stunt at this point, that the president's trying to prove that he's tough enough to go overseas? >> it's remarkable that a president who has so wrapped himself in the military -- and you know, he did boost the pentagon budget. it seems so contemptuous of the individuals who serve in the military. i have known bill mcraven since fifth grade and there is not an ounce of partisanship in bill mcraven. so that is a ridiculous attack

to make on him. what is really offensive about what the president said is his attack on bill mcraven's service to this country, because that is disrespectful not only of bill but of the men who served under him. they are heros and they deserve our gratitude. >> you're absolutely right. thank you both. up next, it summarizes the ongoing battles for many american veterans in five short words. quote, we are not done yet. we talk about a powerful new project aimed at helping service members face down challenges after war. keep it right here on "morning joe." after war. keep it right here on "morning joe. erful suction, you need a shark. with two swappable batteries, at maximum suction the shark ion f80 has more run time than the dyson v10 absolute. or, choose the upright model for whole home cleaning only from shark. or, choose the upright model for whoyes or no?gin.ng

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so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free. i had a good friend of mine from high school who was killed in ramadi. i watched his mom cry on the front lawn for 2 1/2 days. i joined the marine corps to try to prevent moms from laying in the front yard. i was in the marine corps for ten years. went to afghanistan. iraq. medically retired. now i'm a visual artist.

it's hard to cope with normal human being stuff if you're wearing your trauma on your sleeve. when i first got back home from afghanistan, my dad is like, hey, if you ever want to talk, i'm here for you. it never made sense to say, hey, dad, i watched people burn to death, can you pass the mashed potatoes? >> a clip from the new hbo documentary, we're not dope yet. which follows the stories of art and performance to grapple with traumatic experiences. one ofe iing forces behind the film, jeffrey wright. >> thank it is for having me. >> it looks comparing, beautiful and important. tell us about those who ended up in this film.

>> it's a group of ten vets, men and women, who talk about their experiences in the military. and they use poetry as a means of confronting trauma, processing it and ideally healing themselves through this community. they talk about trauma related to combat but also sexual assault so we cover a spectrum of experiences. one of them had the idea they would put on a staged reading they had written as part of this arts therapy project. that was my introduction to them. culminated in a performance in d.c. in 2017, one of the most powerful nights of theater i've ever had. >> hearing from the veteran as we came in from the break talking about how his father

said let me know if you want to talk. he really nailed the issue for a lot of these veterans and that is that it's hard to talk about. it's impossible to talk about it with someone who hasn't been there. that's why so many feel compelled to go back. art is really a bridge where they can show it and express their feelings. >> i think more than anything they desire to be heard. >> right. >> their stories are difficult ones for them, but if they keep it inside, then they serve to kind of infect the psyche. so what i heard from them as a collective is their voices are not heard. i think unfortunately the narrative that we hear too often around veterans day, for example is, yes, one of celebration of the vets but i think there are

profound needs that are not being met. the only way we're going to understand what those needs are, understand them better, if we hear from them themselves, rather than hear from politicians or the ads we see during the football games all weekend. we need to hear these voices. if you look at the statistics, we heard a lot during the campaign about 20 vets a day dying. that hasn't changed. we brought more vets from suicide than we did from combat in iraq and afghanistan. it's a massive problem that if we don't acknowledge, we will not solve. the first way to acknowledge it is to settle down, be quiet, listen to their voices. really proud to share now. >> i know you're familiar with the phrase the greatest

generation made famous by tom brokaw. >> sure. >> but through world war ii through vietnam we've had a silent generation of veterans who haven't spoken of their experiences because the door's always been closed. now thanks to you, that door is being opened a bit and there's light coming in. one of the things i think you can bear this out in speaking to veterans, the "thank you for your service" while a nice gesture is kind of an empty gesture. we want to hear about your life today. what do you need? >> i think you're right. we want to honor these folks. one of the mistakes we made, conflating the poll atlantitics with the folks who take up the call. we absolutely need to honor these folks. they have sacrificed a lot.

and they have -- most have served honserve ed honor rabably. at the same time, there are needs not being met by the va. there's a gap in services many of these individuals try to take up with their own hands. i've spoken to vets, one of whom described his telephone line is a one-man crisis center. twice he didn't answer the phone and he found out later his phone number was the last the caller called, it was a vet who took his own life. so yes, we thanked them but at the same time if we really want to thank them, we need to listen. we need to strip away the platitudes and our perception of the service and really understand the difficulties that that service might imply.

>> the hbo documentary from "we are not done yet" is currently available from hbo and on demand. that does it for us this morning. >> hi there, everyone, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover, starting with another scandal. a new report about first daughter trump used an account to send hundreds of e-mails to government officials, very reminiscent of what president trump attacked hillary clinton repeatedly doing during the 2016 campaign. >> yes, look, it did appear to be critical, it looks bad for sure. >> thousands of u.s. troops are set to leave the southwest border despite president trump's assertions they're needed there to prevent migrants from entering the