>> that's "hardball" for now. all in with chris hayes starts right now. welcome to a special taped hour of "morning joe" for the morning after thanksgiving, hope you had a wonderful one. an amazing holiday. and more still ahead of us. with us we have national affairs analyst for nbc news john heilemann. he's the co-host and executive producer of showtime's "the circus." associate editor of commentary magazine, noah rothman is with us. columnist and deputy editorialal page editor at the "washington post," ruth marcus is with us as well. thank you all for being with us. hope you had a great holiday. looking ahead to the lame duck session, john heilemann, i'll let you start off.

i want you to make some predictions. do we expect any drama? i'm assuming the drama begins as soon as they take the gavel but can the drama begin with this president and what are the chances anything gets done? what are the key issues? >> i think, mika, the likelihood anything will get done of substance in the lame duck session will be small. the president will do what the president will do. i know we'll talk later about the special counsel and the drama there. i think right now you got a situation where the president has in the course of his two years in office accomplished almost nothing on the legislative front. so i don't see any great urgency. one of the things the president said we would have is another tax cut. that was one of the things he promised at the end of the campaign. one they were going to work on that while congress was out of

session. now that congress is back in session there's no appetite to do that. one thing the president looked like he was going to put pressure on is criminal justice reform. mitch mcconnell said there's not enough legislative days left to get that done. the president said let's get this done but now hearing from the majority leader that ain't going to happen. i'm looking for on the legislative front probably a big goose egg for the lame duck session. >> so a lot of nothing expected. ruth marcus what about the tax cut? he promised that during the campaign. it seemed so real. >> i'm sorry to disappoint you, mika. that tax cut is not happening. it's not happening in the lame duck and it's not happening in the next congress. so i know that you know you can take the president's word to the bank, but don't bank on that one. i do think -- just to be more serious for a second. it's disappointing.

the president did a good thing in coming out for this criminal justice reform bill, got the fraternal order of police on board, it's an important change that would allow judges to have much more discretion in imposing these terrible mandatory sentences. it's sad the majority leader can't find time on the legislative calendar to get it done. i hope it gets done in the next congress. >> noah, i saw you nodding your head on that one. that is a loss. there should be some way for both sides to be able to reach out on something. >> yeah. there was a dramatic, actually, in my view, dramatic amount of consensus about the need to begin the process of reforming the criminal justice system, reforming sentencing structure and the support of a striking number of republicans. it did, however, prompt a bit of a backlash from some law and order republicans. tom cotton was against this bill

and he was doing his efforts to whip against it. just demonstrated there was going to be too much fissure within the conference over this bill. i agree with ruth marcus, i hope this comes to the floor in the next session. because if it did get a vote, lindsey graham said it would get 60 votes. i have no reason to doubt him as long as the president shows some support for this to pass. >> i want to bring in historian, author and author of "the souffle america," rogers professor at vanderbilt university john meacham. so, meacham, looking ahead beyond the lame duck session, but at the big picture, at 20,000 feet, is there a parallel in history that we can draw from? >> no. not particularly.

just because -- i will go on, but that's pretty much the answer. no we never had as unconventional a president as this one, someone who has consciously decided not to fall into any expected pattern of norms either behaviorally or substantively. that's where we are. the closest analogy is andrew johnson. you have to go back to the reconstruction era which ended in impeachment and near conviction to have a person who was as erratic and willing to stand outside the mainstream while still at the pinnacle of power. it's an interesting act to be able to pull off, actually but both andrew johnson and donald trump have done it. i just don't think we're in an ordinary conversation

politically. >> so, john heilemann, before we move on to, i think pulling back to 20,000 feet at some of the problems this presidency has posed to this country, depending on your point of view, i just want to ask if you expect a government shutdown, if you see that fight ensuing, perhaps over the border wall? >> i don't. i think the president, obviously, wants to make some noise about the notion he doesn't have funding that he expected or wanted or pretended he wanted for the border wall. i can't imagine that under the circumstances, after coming up after these mid-term elections that the republicans collectively would not, will not see that the cost of a government shutdown for the president and his party would be too high to bear. so there may be saber rattling

over it. that border wall will not get funded. even though the president pretends it should get funded that won't happen so no reason to shut down the government. >> as republicans move into the minority how do they change? how do they press reset. do some step up and finally speak out at times against this president when it's called for? >> they might but not in ways you expect or even welcome. one of the biggest fears for conservatives who are frustrated by this presidency and his intelligence is he wouldn't govern as a conservative. he has been constrained by a status quo anti-conservative majority in the conditioning, not insofar as behavior but legislatively. the wall was never going to get the $25 billion out of this congress because it was a

republican congress. now once you have democrats, however, seeking common ground with this president in order, for example, to fund an infrastructure project you may very well have an opportunity for some sort of balance, compromise legislation that is more aligned with donald trump's priorities which are not about red ink but rather about getting things done. that's where you could see conservatives get off the boat, you could very well see some republicans say wait a minute this is democratic priorities, this is democratic legislation, this is the kind of thing we can't support. >> there have been so many unimaginable things in this presidency, just sort of sloshes in my mind, the president visiting paradise, california and then calling it pleasure and getting the name wrong in light of hundred of people possibly ultimately when the numbers are counted dying there in flames,

an entire town decimated. he doesn't even get the name right. the synagogue shooting in pittsburgh, there are people that have the president visiting that don't want him to come. he's sowed so much resentment and fear and disgust that people don't want him to come to be comforting at a time of a mass shooting inside a synagogue. and i mean puerto rico, another disaster, throwing paper towels at the people as if they are minions and the king is sending them candy or something. you know, for a democrat or for anybody who feels that trump may be a little crass this has been a horrible time. ruth i wonder if he's sowed so much doubt and resentment that when the democrats come calling they are going ask for everything. what do you think the key issues are going to be in terms of

subpoenas, in terms of questions they want answered from this president, in terms of documents they are going to ask him to cough up? >> so, i think the democrats -- look the ground has been set and there's an era of bad feelings we're in and i understand everything that you said about the president's incredible empathy deficit. nonetheless democrats need the to play their hands wisely, which is to say they have oversight authority that they haven't had before. they need to use it in a slow steady measured deliberatively way, not to willy-nilly spit out subpoenas for anything they might want, not to look like -- not to sort of betray the trust the american people gave them with this very solid, better than expected majority that they had. so what they need to do is

concentrate not on trump as a person, i don't think, wait for mueller. if you are asking for tax returns, have a very specific reason and thing you want in those tax returns. i know this is really frustrating for people like me but don't necessarily lay those tax returns out in public. but concentrate on tissues of malfeasance in government. what's been going on at the epa, at the interior department. all the oversight that even a republican congress ought to have been doing with a republican president that has just not happened in the last two years. do that. show the american people that you deserve the trust that they gave you. don't go too far. and i think that it would be interesting to see what happens with the speakership on that front because nancy pelosi is one figure who i think can make sure typical poo impose that di.

>> let's talk about the speakership. john heilemann, what are the prospects for nancy pelosi to hold on? >> i think nancy pelosi, i thought for a while she would be the next speaker of the house. her position was in a little bit of jeopardy if democrats had not taken control of the house, having taken control of the house and having done so emphatically she has a powerful argument against her critics, the notion she was a drag on the democratic party has been dispensed with. she's, everyone agrees, a fantastic disciplinaryian in the house. she runs a tight ship. she knows how to do this job and it's a highly complicated technical job. she's one of the most successful fundraisers in the history of the democratic party in the modern era. there are some young democrats that think a fresher face would be a better face in the democratic party and they are going to exact their ounce of

flesh from her in order to get her, to get their votes on board. but she's systematically doing that. she's an old school politician. she knows how to get deals made. i think when the vote comes she will be in good shape and she will be the next speaker of the house. >> the president's recent trips overseas haven't exactly been anything to write home about. the g7 in canada fell apart and he was roundly criticized for his conduct this month in france. so what's at stake for his upcoming visit to south america? "the washington post's" david ignatius joins the conversation next on "morning joe". (chime)

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[ready forngs ] christmas? no, it's way too early to be annoyed by christmas. you just need some holiday spirit! that's it! this feud just went mobile. with xfinity xfi you get the best wifi experience at home. and with xfinity mobile, you get the best wireless coverage for your phone. ...you're about to find out! you don't even know where i live... hello! see the grinch in theaters by saying "get grinch tickets" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. welcome back. next week president trump is headed to argentina for the g-20 summit. on the agenda an expected sideline sit down with russia's vladimir putin. for what the kremlin is calling

a long and substantive meeting. the president is also set to meet with china's xi jinping amid trump's ongoing trade and tariff battles with beijing. joining us now, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. david, good to have you along with us all. i guess overall what's at stake with this summit and then i want to focus in on the meeting with putin and how exactly that came about. >> so, mika, this year has been a roller coaster for donald trump on foreign policy. he had the summit meeting with kim jong-un in singapore which seemed like a break through but in the months since seemed less and less substance to that deal. he had a summit meeting with putin in helsinki that produced absolute tempest of headlines as the president seemed to be

deferring to the russian leader on questions involving russian investigation here and other matters. as i talk to foreign diplomats, representatives of their governments, i hear from our traditional friends high anxiety about trump. trump's disruption has caused destabilization for germany, for britain, for mexico, for canada. it's been a terrible year for them. among adversaries i think the russians would love to sit down and have that kind of heart to heart summit with putin and trump across the table. the chinese are wary. they are on a confrontation course with trump. they don't know what to make of him. i think the headline from argentina probably will be the meeting with putin. and we'll see if they can announce things on syria, on ukraine we would look at and say

maybe that will stabilize things. >> david, 1989 we saw a wave of capitalist revolution, democratic revolution didn't do so great. what we're now beginning to see the retraction of that first global open market since 1914, protectionism, economic disunion in the name of american sovereignty and this is the first g7 summit since donald trump managed to begin the trade wars that he promised in earnest in 2016. is there a champion for the u.s. led economic order? is anybody interested in preserving this order that has maintained for the last 25 years, a quarter of a century, or really is everybody just jockeying for the post-american order at this point. >> i think the nightmare, noah, if we're going to give it a description this year, it might be the chinese led world

economic order. the united states under trump has pursued a policy of breaking from globalization. that's a naughty word in the white house. we hate those globalists. it's not a naughty word in beijing. chinese think they've prospered in this global economy and they want to extend it, increasingly develop chinese institutions and benefit their companies. so i think that would be what we worry about at this g-20 summit. g-20 is a symbol of a globalized economic world that we'll be seeing increasingly chinese leadership not american. >> john meacham? >> david, if in the foreign capitals when they are preparing intelligence reports for their leaders in germany and england, around the world, what are they saying, in your mind, about the next two to four years in the

united states? are they seeing that the movement, the populace movement so clearly embodied by trump is a long term force they will have to deal with? are they going to wait it out? do they think this is a passing fever or a more permanent situation that they are going to have to manage into a coming decade? >> john, the simple answer is that they don't know whether this is a passing moment or a permanent change in the united states. so they are having to hedge their bets and i think that's part of what we should be concerned about. in the first year of donald trump it was as if this was an aberration, this can't be, when will we return to the national order we've known. in the second year you saw people make alternative plans, certainly i heard that from macron in paris ten days ago in which he was saying we may need

a johnson army from text ourselves among others the united states. i think the shape of this world order is up for grabs. >> this is a question i've been asking ambassadors and other foreign dig adignita much eries america's reputation in the world strong enough to with stand trump so when we come out on the other side of this, whenever that s-whether it's in 2020 or 2024 will the harm that he caused what will the aftermath of hurricane trump look like? i'll toss that question to you, david, because we've talked about this, i think, before. >> that's the right question. what thing, that continue to be

strong american assets and at the top of the list are two obvious ones. u.s. military remains the strongest in the world but we have very good military leadership in secretary mattis who has great relationships around the world. and is known and trusted by his counterparts and then general dunford, every week two or three times general dunford is meeting with the counterpart, chief of staff, a defense minister from a foreign military and talking about common interests and military plans. same goes for our intelligence service, cia has good liaison or better than ever with all of its scores of partners around the world who depend on the cia for basic information that helps keep them safe. those institutions of american power seem to me to be as strong as ever and that's the continuity we'll look for in the post-trump era. let's hope it's been strong, continuous enough that there's

something rebuild on. >> so, david, i want to ask you a question here and then the actually throw it to everybody to kind of contemplate this. we've just seen this gigantic change in american politics. we got democrats taking over the house of representatives. they are going to be a check on the president for sure. they are also going to launch some number of investigation, maybe all the way leading up to impeachment, impeachment hearing, depending on what bob mueller reports. ski you this question, from the standpoint of a foreign head of state and the standpoint of a power player in international business who is based abroad or financial markets person in berlin or in london or in paris, do they look at the next two years and say this is great, trump is going to be pinned down at home, we can just kind of proceed in an era of greater stability because he's going to

be contained or do they look at the situation and say we could have more volatility ahead if trump feels cornered and starts to lash out on the world stage? >> john, what i hear and think myself is we're going to have more volatility because of the fundamentals. this recovery is getting long in the toot. we'll see more volatile in the markets for fundamental reasons. for foreign leaders looking at the u.s., the question is, did the mid-term elections represent a step back from the brink of this highly polarized angry sort of crazy american politics, which worried them. or said step towards even greater polarization and partisanship, screaming and a paralyzed u.s. that deepens the problems we saw in the last two years. i don't think we know the answer to that but that's what people are asking. >> can't it be argued he is day-by-day opening us up to

threats from abroad, whether it be his incredibly difficult behavior towards the media, whether it be his glossing over the murder ofia mall khashoggi which in another way he says he doesn't care if a member of the media, the journalism community is murdered. whether it be that he's not filling positions in the state department, whether it be he's putting troops at the border for no reason, whether it be that his responses to hate crimes seem to be different than his responses to other things, isn't he opening us up for a major national security threat by weakening the very moral compass of this country? >> you know, mika, our body politics has suffered from these years. our standing overseas has suffered. you look at poll numbers it's a catastrophic fall in people's respect for the united states and for this president. the fundamentals of our power,

our military and intelligence service as i've said earlier i don't think have really been significantly changed. one thing you would say about trump but i feel this especially as a "washington post" colleague of the late jamal khashoggi is the way this president gives a pass to dick take iters, to brutal actions by foreign governments. that does weaken one of our core national assets which is the sense that america represents moral values in the world. it's not nothing to give that away as he has. but in the end the president is the commander-in-chief in our system. we may have a strong mattis and dunford but when mattis gets the order send the troops to the order he ends up saying as we saw yes, sir and the troops go. >> coming up, bob mueller may have been laying loin the run up to the mid-terms but that could all change in an instant.

and with seismic repercussions. the latest in the russian probe next on "morning joe". (chime)

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you are submitting written answers to the special counsel about tissue of collusion, but

not on obstruction of justice. >> there was no obstruction of justice. i think they probably agree with me. all you have to do -- >> is that your final position there's no sit down interview, and nothing written or in person on obstruction? >> i would say probably. probably. i can change my mind, but probably. i think we've wasted enough time on this witch-hunt, and the answer is probably. we're finished. >> welcome back. that was president trump earlier this week on the chance of a sit down interview with special counsel robert mueller. joining us now, former assistant united states attorney for the southern district of new york, a fellow at the brennan center for justice and an msnbc legal analyst, daniel goldman. and a staff writer for "the atlantic," natasha bertrand.

what are the big questions that perhaps could be posed moving forward to this president, either by the mueller team or congress? >> well, i think what's interesting, first of all, is that they are being very hesitant about answering questions having to do with the transition period which, of course, is when former national security adviser then top adviser to trump michael flynn was having these conversations with the former russian ambassador about holding off on retaliation against the u.s. for the obama administration for imposing sanctions. they thought trump administration would lessen sanctions. questions that mueller wants to know about the election has to go the traufrp tower meeting. was candidate trump aware that his son and son-in-law and campaign chairman were going to meet with the russians at trump tower to get dirt on hillary clinton. was he told by this former trump

campaign aid george papadopoulos about this offer he got from this random foreign professor saying the russians had dirt on hillary clinton in the form of thousands of emails. was he aware the gop platform on ukraine was going to be softened in order to, you know, lessen the blow on russia which, of course, did not want the united states to provide lethal weapons to the ukrainians to fend off their aggression. all of these, i believe, are major questions that mueller want answered because they go to heart of whether or not there was a conspiracy between the campaign and russia. >> so, daniel goldman, if president trump had an attorney, or an expert in independent counsel investigations with him who had the guts to tell him the whole truth and nothing but the painful truth, what would they be saying he should be prepared for at this point? >> well, we don't really know what the conversations have been

between his lawyers and bob mueller's office, and i say that particularly pointedly as it relates to anything that rudy giuliani says because he has just not been accurate or truthful throughout this whole process. i think the real question for him is, and the real question we are sitting here waiting to get the answer for, is whether these questions that he apparently is answering is the final step for robert mueller in his quest to investigate the president and get the president on record with answers to, you know, any number of different questions related either to what we call collusion or to obstruction of justice. this could very well just be a first step. let's undercoscore the fact written questions from prosecutors to a subject or a witness is incredibly rare. i in ten years of being a

prosecutor never did it. i never heard of anyone doing it. it underscores the uniqueness of this situation. but it very well could just be a first step. and maybe there will be more questions. and the big question out there is whether there will be a grand jury subpoena for the president. >> let me ask a couple of questions real quick. trump will turn these answers in. right? he says he's written down the answer. nobody believes that. the lawyers have been looking at these questions for months. presumably they will write answers that will steer clear so definitive he could get perjury for. bob mueller looks at the answers and finds them unsatisfactory. what's the next move. does he get a subpoena and call trump in. are these questions too vague or does he say this is it, let's move on. >> the first step would be this is insufficient. we either need to meet and

discuss these questions, we have followup questions and maybe they negotiate a very narrow set of questions, you know, that follow on from the written questions. if trump then says no, then bob mueller is put to the test of whether he wants to go through a subpoena fight. that will result in litigation. we know that. i think most legal experts believe that mueller would win that. what's interesting to me is that it seems like there are perhaps two motivating factors as to why they are going with these written questions. one is they don't want that fight. that, you know, they want to wrap this up. and they don't necessarily need his answers and two is that -- i guess that's the, two they don't need his answers. so if he doesn't want to answer the questions and defend himself on an obstruction justice case then he doesn't have to. >> this whole thing makes me think about the parallel

examination of roger stone and how that's been very drawn out as well. so this whole process of trying to get answers from the president has been in the works since about march or february of this year. and people have been asking well why has mueller given them so much time. it might be he doesn't feel he needs to complete his investigation. he has so much evidence especially with paul manafort cooperating. with regard to roger stone, everyone except roger stone has been interviewed by mural and the grand jury. there have been dozens of grand jury witnesses but roger stone has not been subpoenaed. >> it raises the second question everybody is focused on. we now think julian assange, there's an indictment somewhere

sealed against him. his lawyers on television saying no one has talked to us. roger stone. no one has talked to roger stone. don jr., had no interactions from the special prosecutor. do we not conclude on the basis of what we know, your reporting, your understanding wouldn't you think that those three people, one of whom we believe has an indictment under seal and two of whom have looked like targets who everybody wonders will roger stone going to get indicted, will don jr. get indicted, maybe all three of those people will get indicted or am i wrong to assume that? >> anyone who is the subject of an investigation should worry if prosecutors don't want to talk to them because that means that they are circling around you. that's pretty well accepted. i think the julian assange thing is separate from mueller. in part because of who the assistant u.s. attorney was who is not affiliated with the special counsel's office.

that may honestly been charged a year ago, you know, a long time ago and just remains under seal while they try to figure out if there's a possibility of extradition. as to roger stone and jerome corsey who gives an good indication he's an associate ever roger stone who likely is now cooperating and will have to plead guilty to making families statements to the special counsel as part of that cooperation. so, yes, i think roger stone will get indicted. don jr. is a big question, but you raise a good point. paul manafort is really going to shed a lot of light on don jr.'s congressional testimony where he denied that the president knew anything or that he told the president anything. and if that's not the case then he very well could get indicted for perjury. >> a question you have to answer quickly. i want to get into the worst

case scenario with the acing attorney general matthew whitaker. does the mueller probe have a dead man switch it can lean in in the event that it's being killed without us being aware of it? >> he can technically serve in that position for 210 days but that whole process can restart itself once trump nominates someone for the permanent attorney general position. so he could serve for much longer than 210 days. as you mentioned he has said, essentially he's theorized about suffocating mueller probe because he thought it's gone too far. he could tell mueller don't go forward with this indictment or don't subpoena the president. he doesn't believe the president believe or should be subpoenaed. there's no mechanism to check that power because he would have to justify his actions to congress but not until the mueller action is over. we wouldn't learn about it

necessarily until the probe has ended. in terms of whether or not he's actually going to do that, all eyes are on him. so i don't know if he would be so brazen as to take those steps to limit the mueller investigation. but mueller has some recourse because there are questions about whether or not matthew whitaker's appointment was constitutional to begin with. if he wanted to challenge, for example, something that, for example, his firing of matthew whitaker which would go with that nuclear option, challenge that in court, mueller could have some standing as a damaged party there. that's according to legal experts i've spoken to. he's not completely without recourse if he were to be fired, for example. short of that, i mean there's not much that he could do. >> daniel goldman, natasha bertrand, thank you both for being on. up next our interview with journalist michael scott moore who was kidnapped and held prisoner for over two years by

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there's a fascinating update to an interview we conducted just a short time ago. we sat down with journalist michael scott moore who writes about his two and a half year experience being held captive by somali pirates. he was released, but as it turns out that wouldn't be the last he heard from his kidnappers. we'll explain that just ahead, but first our conversation with the author. >> the book is "the desert and the sea, 977 days captive on the somali coast." just a little bit of the back story. you're a journalist. why were you on that ship to begin with? >> i got captured on land but been following the trial of ten somali pirates in germany which is where i was living. i went to central somali in early 2012 to get the back story

and some pirates captured me on land and within about three months they put me on a ship that they hijacked, a tuna vessel. >> under what circumstances were you taken? how did it go down >> the lives with another journalist. when he went to the airport to go to month -- mogadishu there were pirates waiting for boston us. >> i didn't know about it in real-time and that was by design from your employer. >> my -- by design. we kept it, for the whole two and a half years it was out of the news but when i got out there was a flury. >> when you were incredible kidnapped did you have any sense what you were in for. did you feel it was a short term stunt they were pulling or this

could be an extended period of time? >> i knew it was bad. i just think, i hoped from the first day that it would be over quickly. but i knew cases that lasted a year and a half. i knew be that. i don't think anyone expected it to last quite so long. >> so give us a sense of how many were among, with you, other captives. where were you held? did you see day sliglight? how often, your daily routine, how much weight did you lo ez in. >> that changed over time. i was thrown immediately with two other fishermen pla the shea chels. eeesaicheles. the pirates got tired of running from tur veils and three months in april 2012, they actually put us on a tuna vessel that the pirate gang had captured so we

spent the two of us spent about five months, more than that on board a vessel. >> so they placed a ransom on you, what were the they asking for? >> the first thing they asked is $20 million. that was a ridiculous demand. they held onto it for almost a year. >> how profitable this kidnapping as basically a trade for somali pirates? >> well, i mean, that was the business model. demanding ran systems like that. i think it became less profitable as the sort of somali pirate era went on. it fell off dramatically while i was still a hostage. and as it turned out, at the end of my case when the ransom was delivered two days after i was gone from somalia, five pirate bosses actually shot each other in a dispute over money, so given all that, i think a lot of pirates have decided that is not so profitable anymore. and the gangs have gone to other

businesses. >> so, you got out alive and five pirate bosses were shot and killed, it's ironic there. killed each other. so talk about how you got through this two-and-a-half year ordeal, this journey through hell. i know you write that humor actually helped along the way. give us some examples. >> it helped only in the sense, not in the sense they laughed all that often, but maintaining a sense of humor about it is also a way of maintaining distance from it. so, in other words, have you to have a little detachment from yourself to be able to laugh at what's going on. it's not that that's what i did all the time. it's just that i maintaining a little bit of distance is what helped every now and then. i also did yoga. >> that helped quite a bit. teaching yoga over to pirates helped for a few weeks there. some of my guards actually imitated what i was doing. i gave them pointers. i may be the only westerner who

has taught yoga to somali pirates. >> so let me ask you about the pirates. when you talk to people twhorp kidnapped by isis. it seemed that it depended perhaps some people, some isis members from some countries were kinder that may be the wrong word, let's say less abusive nan others. like, for instance, the british isis members were supposedly some of the most brutal. what about with you. did you notice, did you notice your care getting worse, based on where you were sent or was it about the same? >> i think it depended open who was watching me. the guard team changed really, you know, it had shifts. sometimes the shifts went on for months. but it changed depending on who was with me. i think overall it was easier to be held by somali pirates than isis. in fact, i was listening to the

bbc when foley lost his head. >> did you, michael, have a sense or hope when you were there that someone was coming for you? or did it feel completely hopeless? >> of course, i talked to my mother sometimes on the phone. i knew something was going on. nobody could give me details. i had no idea of what was really going on. of course, i had hope. hope is not how i survived by the way. the pirates tried to sort of give you hope that you were going free in two weeks or one month, something like that. it was always fawn sense. and that cycle of going through hope and despair was really brutal so i have to detach myself from. that. >> so what was it humor, faith? what got you through? >> so some religion and flaef, soicism and christian forgiveness. >> did i hear you say that your mother paid a ransom of over a million dollars? >> mr. b-hmm-hmm.

>> five days after you were checked? . >> she didn't pay 1.6 million. she managed to collect it among family and friends and magazines that work for her and institutions here and in germany and that sort of thing. it was made more or less simultaneously with my relief. there was no hollywood-style trough. i think it happened the same day. >> it's an extraordinary story. thank god you are telling it to us. >> the story is "the desert and the sea. 9 sfechl days captured on the somali coast." thank you very much. >> as i mentioned in the setup, michael scott moore's kapptive continues after he was freed. the "new york times" reports two months after he was released, he received a surprising message on facebook from someone he recognized as one of the men who guarded him during his captivity. he then started exchanging a series of remarkable messages with the same person who had

denied him his freedom for so long. the extent of their conversations isn't completely clear, but court records show the somali kidnapper was taken into custody by u.s. authorities over the summer. we're going to update this story as we learn much more about it. and coming up, we run the gamut on our "morning joe" guests. on one a founding member of pussee riot. the other alan greenspan, they offer their unique perspectives on the world today. plus a look back at one conversation from our live studio show. the morning after the mid-terms. what filmmaker michael moore had to say as the results were still coming in. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪

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. welcome back to this edition of ""morning joe"." we're on tape for the morning after thanksgiving. we hope everyone had a great holiday. we begin this hour with a look back at the consequential mid-term election. it's now clear that we saw a big democratic wave. democrats continue to extend their gains in the house for weeks after election day as more and more races were called in their favor. the count is at least 37 seats added to their caucus and that number goes along with significant gains in state governments all over the country. democrats won the national popular vote in the house by at least 7.7 percentage points

according to cook tabulation. they estimate that number could go as high as nine points. but the morning after, the results were a bit less definitive. >> that morning in front of a live audience and historic studio 8h. we spoke with filmmaker michael moore, president of princeton university and msnbc political analyst republican strategist steve schmidt. here's a look back at that conversation. >> this is how it's going to go. okay. over here is the blue. this is the red. tomorrow night there will be more blue than red. there is nobody that lives in this area right here. everybody lives over here. we keep these seats, add few more over here then from over here, take new mexico off this board. put it over here with virginia, we got a victory tomorrow night. >> oh my gosh. michael moore last night channeling his inner kornacki.

i will say, i think steve kornacki is a little better than you. >> i was doing the full kornacki. >> intensity. >> you are not supposed to go full court. you are not supposed to touch that board in certain places. >> no! >> but i was going to the red states. i wasn't afraid of it. >> filmmaker michael moore is here, everybody. [ applause ] >> his latest documentary is fahrenheit. time magazine and author of the book "degrees in plaque." msnbc political analyst and former republican strategist, former republican. yeah. okay. i guess that's where we're at. >> that is in the rear view mirror. >> what are we today? >> madsonian democracy works. there is one party rule done at least for the next two years.

>> yes. >> michael moore, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. drive safely. >> rice a ronzy our departing gift for you. >> i was hoping to sing with carol king. >> oh. >> what was your take away last night? >> the same as in every election after 1998. the republican versus won the vote once for the president in 30 years between '88 when danny bush won, to now. they only one it once in '04 with bush, w. and that was just in ohio. he won with one state, 65,000 votes. so the democrats have won six of the last seven presidential popular votes. once again last night the democrats won the popular votes again, combine all the house hayes races. >> it's important for people to know when donald trump is talking how well republicans did

today. look up on the screen, will you see the democrats did better than the tea party in 2010 when that was called a revolution. >> right. and in '06 they said w took a thump with that mid-term, they did better than that they won by more than 3,000 votes, if you combine the house races, they won by 10 million votes in the senate races. 10 million votes over the republicans. yet the republicans came out at least as of right now, three extra seats. so that's the good news is that the countries continues to shift towards the progressive way of thinking. they're shifting away from trump and the republicans. and because we have this katrina cockamamy party to allow them to win when they don't have the support of the people. >> a lot of that shifts,

democrats won big governorships. they will be overseeing redistricting for the next decade. the 2020 senate map looks just as brutal for republicans as the 2018 map looked for democrats. >> yes, so what we have to do is take last night and put it into context. so some good stuff and some bad stuff. in the gerrymandered map, we have ended one party rule with the gerrymander map. when we think about what kemp was doing in georgia of the 200,000 plus voters that separate adrabrams and kevin. we know 400,000 of them were purgeled. we seeing the ticks. voter suppression having its effects. what we saw on the ground, young folk organizing, young people, minorities, women, plaque women in particular jumping out there, organizing. the long-term implications of this, particularly for those young folk won't terred the

political process doesn't bode well for trump and for the republican party. i will say this. even in spite of all of that, a large percentage of this country bought the final argument of donald trump. and it disturbs me to my core, joe, and there's a kind of confluence of selfishness in racism that so even if you say i've only because my taxes feed to be low, i'm thinking about the last segment, that i really don't want to pay. there are folks who are willing to stomach what we just heard over this last mid-term election because they have self interests, they're concerned only about their tax so there is something about the convergence of selflessness with a deep seated racism, they said in 19 q1 u 61, segregation is ending the question is how long and expensive the funeral will be. here we are still paying for it in some different sorts of ways.

>> willie, i was watching, i'm always watching ken burns' documentaries. i was watching his one on baseball and there were parts about jackie robinson signing with the dodgers in '45 and integrated baseball and people talking with tears in their eyes while i started tearing up, about how baseball led the way in change. and i was sitting there thinking, this was 1945. and here we have in 2018, we have a president of the united states that's making an overt appeal to racism as his final argument to keep the house and to keep the senate. >> and a choice to make that argument when he had a choice to talk about the economy. something that a conventional politician would have ridden all the way to election day with we got a good jobs report. he decided it was more

inflammatory and effective to a certain group of people. maybe it works like eddie said in some places, maybe it worked enough in georgia and florida and enough in arizona, a border state. we don't know how that will settle up yet. for you, steve schmidt as you sat and watched the returns last night, what was the big picture the big take away for you? >> the big ticket picture is this was a big night across the mid-west, taking back the house of representatives. the government race and state legislative races and the trump fog machine can spin this anyway it wants. if you have the capacity to make up an invasion of the united states by a disease infested hoard of immigrants, for sure you have the capacity to say that though you lost, you, in fact, won. so that's number one. right. so there is a big night for democrats, no what's what they said. to eddie's point, i want to expand on what he said, that

reality is that paul ryan was wrong to advise the campaign on the economy and donald trump's instinct were validated in big sections of the country. the incitement strategy, the racial demagoguery, it worked. and we have to understand that we have a billion dollar anger industry in this country. we have a news network in unprecedented fashion functioning as a prop began prof a president that controls it. we have an interconnected web of propaganda and misinformation and nonsense, where the american people subjected to a constant torrent of lies, whether it's a caravan, whether it's illegal voting. whether it's any of the other 6,000 lies that he told over the year the assault on objective truth. we've seen the consequence through the incitement strategy that played out.

and when we look ahead, we see the net result of this election is pickups for the democrats, but also a clarification of the border lines in the country with regard to the cold civil war that donald trump is stoking. we saw democratic pickups in suburban areas in oklahoma city, charleston, south carolina, statin island where republicans have held those seats for 30 years. the rural population of america, though, such as it is is shrinking, aging and contradicting. and so the republican party may have got an low interest mortgage on their incitement strategy, just like the california party did with its anti-immigrant demagoguery in 1994 and didn't win another state wide race from 1994 until now with the exception of arnold swae schwarzenegger will linger

around for ages. >> and for sticking by and gaining control. moore, ultimately, i think the impact of this presidency has been hurtful to the american people and i think he's miss -- i think many have underestimated from the get-go the power and the platform and the influence that donald trump had over regular americans who are working every day and trying to get a paycheck and they felt lied to for decades and they felt like washington was letting them down and he touched a nerve and he has broken down the free press and sewed doubt in the press. he sewed doubt in the truth. i think that might have been a part of today's convoluted outcome. what do you think? >> i think that -- he is a tumor on democracy, but the tumor shrank last night. the tumor has shrunk. >> wow. >> well, that's the truth. he has ripped apart and he has

taken us to the precipice of whether or not we're going to have the country we thought we used to have or that we were going to have and i come from one of those three states, michigan, that put him over the top in the electoral college vote. >> right. >> last night those three states, pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin as you pointed out here on the show all went blue. governors in all those states, senators and at least in michigan, two new women that are going to go to congress and a third one who is our first palestinian american in congress. so there is a lot of good news here. but he is a true danger, but it's because of what you said. he has figured out. he's so much smarter than our side, nobody takes, has never taken him seriously, has never understood his power. his ability to read a room. his ability to manipulate people with fear, that i mean the man is a genius in this area.

he's an evil genius, but to not respect how smart he has been in doing this. ask yourself, maybe i missed this in the earlier part of the show when i was sleeping, but -- god bless you for getting up every morning. i don't know how you do it. seriously, though, who right now, think of who that person is right now that could beat him in 2020? come one a name, say the kaim name right now? >> cam la harris. >> love her. >> no, fought going to happen. corey, i wouldn't none of that no, you cannot run a politician against him. we will lose. >> i'm running a former prosecutor and former attorney general. >> we have to run a beloved american, obama became beloved the night of that convention, he was beloved from that moment on when he gave that speech. we need to run somebody, whether it's got to be like a michelle obama, or it's got to be a sulli

sullenberger or why aren't we thinking along the lines of who can defeat him? we will lose in 2020. >> by the way, have you thoughts on it? i agree with you right now. we still haven't heard the name that can when in 2020. >> i'm usually right. >> that was our conversation the morning after the mid-terms. still ahead, president trump is heading to mississippi to back republican senator cindy hyde smith. we recently sat down with a group of voters there on the president and trumpism, in general. >> that discussion is next on "morning joe." . >> if you said police your heart is that is not said, police your heart. bless her heart. >> if you say bless your heart and wink, i'm leaving. (chime)

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[ready forngs ] christmas? no, it's way too early to be annoyed by christmas. you just need some holiday spirit! that's it! this feud just went mobile. with xfinity xfi you get the best wifi experience at home. and with xfinity mobile, you get the best wireless coverage for your phone. ...you're about to find out! you don't even know where i live... hello! see the grinch in theaters by saying "get grinch tickets" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. president trump will head to mississippi to campaign for republican u.s. senator sen dihyde submit. hyde smith is facing off against

congressman mike espey against a u.s. runoff that was supposed to supply an easy republican win has turned into an unexpectedly competitive contest. trump's campaign announced recently that he would hold rallies for hyde smith in tupelo and biloxi, mississippi the night before tuesday's election. meanwhile, the national republican senatorial committee is sending reenforcements to the state. last week made a $700,000 ad buy. the senate majority pack is rung 100,000 in tv ads and black matters fund a group working throughout the south is sending staffers to mississippi. back in september, we gathered a group of voters in oxford, mississippi. some backed trump for president and sim did not. and there was plenty to talk about. here's some of that conversation. >> what's donald trump's best

qualit quality? >> the fact that he will identify a problem, believe he's right in the way that he goes about solving it or tackling that problem. he doesn't side step it. he doesn't side step it. he goes full head on with how he believes it should be handled and he doesn't seek anyone eelss a approval to do that. >> i would agree which are that that she a strong charging man, i don't find him being a person to hold his finger up in the air to see which way the wind is blowing before he makes a decision. i think that is and admirable quality. >> i his directness, it comes from his tell e selling rate estate and his trump brand. he has the you know the -- he can base the sense that he is absolutely certain of his position. >> what's his worst quality in.

>> his self centeredness is what i gentlemen in terms of being president, his worst quality is his lack of inclusiveness. he panders to a very small subset of the republican side of the leger. he didn't run as a republican. he wasn't a republican candidate. he basically was co-opted into the breitbart, fox news machine. he needed it. because he needed a sense of coherence in policy and approach to politics. they've provideed that for him. >> howie, what itself the president's best quality, worst quality in. >> i mean, like others have said, this fact that he believes wholly himself on what he can do. but i would also argue that that is his worst quality as well. because so many times that he's ill informed and he refuses to

seek out counsel, whether a lawyer, engineer, anybody else. he refuses to listen to them and what they have to bring to the table. a lot of times he showed he would hire people to mop up his mistakes. why do we have to have a mistake with a president? you can't make a mistake when you are the president of the united states his best quality is deception, that's as high as i can go. for example when you look at the economy and he's taken credit for the economy. we know that when obama hin inherited his economy we were in a recession. over time, we were emerging out of that or evolving out of that recession. so now donald j. trump is taking credit for us being where we are and that's deception. >> you like that middle name of his in. >> his worst quality is division. divisiveness. >> the best quality i guess the most beneficial quality to him is his ability to deny, deny,

deny, never accept, you know, never admit to having done something because you know in the past, politicians, if something like the "access hollywood" tape came out. they would have apologized and admitted they did it and you know with trump, he said it was locker room talk him there was no big act of contrition. when he did that i started realizing that actually works. if you don't admit to something and show contrition, can you actually move forward as a politician and it won't ruin your career like it has so many others so that's been very beneficial to him in many circumstances i think. worst quality i would have to go with hess narcissim because i think he finds it really difficult to disentangle trump from america in terms of what's good for trump and what's good for america. i think he tends to see those things as intertwined. so he can't really see western

he's doing something that he thinks is beneficial for him, he can't see the damage it might be causing the country as a whole. >> do you think the press sometimes acts in ways that makes them the enemy of the people in. >> i don't think that they're the enemy of the people. sometimes i think they have been given maybe a bad rap in presenting not only the facts but their machines as well. >> right. do you think, pat, the press is the enemy of the people in. >> i would say the press should be the guardian of the people. thatry the fourth estate. they are supposed to be the guardian of freedom and liberty. i think the press, particularly the national media, tends to incorporate it's on opinion and other than agenda in a number of stories. so it's difficult to find that trust factor you are looking for when you sense that opinion being put forth as opposed to just the facts.

but your role is to be the guardian of the liberty. >> so ashton, you're in the press. what do you think when you hear the president talking about the press as being the enemy of the people in. >> it just kind of makes me think that he doesn't really understand democracy and at least liberal democracy as, you know, as written into our constitution. it makes me think he doesn't understand the value of the first amendment and i mean the press is protected in the very first amendment of the united states constitution so when he calls us the enemy of the people, it makes me feel like he doesn't understand us. having gone around and interviewed trump supporters, you know, i often at last, i have great conversations and you know they'll seem to like me and say they like me. i'll say do you think we're the enemy of the people if do you think i am? they'll smile at me and say yes. it's very -- it throws me off. >> self serving. >> i'm a little small town guy,

journalism is a big job. you work a lot. you don't get paid a lot most of the time and everyone hates you. >> deaneandre, what concerns yo the most about where we are right now as a country? >> oh, polarization. i think the president donald john has done a pretty bad job of bringing the country together. i mean, this is the united states of america. you know, i'm very, very careful to use the word racism because i'm a political scientist. i associate a meaning with racism. when you use words like low iq that goes to eugenics when you use words like low intelligence or not very smart, that speaks to old fashioned racism. the lack of education relative to whites, for example, superiority. then when you do not demouns murderers in charlottessville,

virginia, that posed a big problem for me. i think it creates a racial divide and ethno-centrist. us versus them. >> howie, do you think donald trump has been racially insensitive over the past couple of years? >> i definitely do. but i think donald trump says crazy things every day. i think he says things that are absolutely not true and everyone knows are not true. but because of the tribalization we have in this country. people want to automatically defend him because he is their guy or on the other side, they automatically denounce what he says, because he is not their guy. i saw same thing when obama was president as well. so to me they're two sides of the same coin, everybody wants to retreat to the corners. i look at politics now, what we will do in two days. we will be cheering on our team. we all have your pom-poms rooting on our team. but you ask anybody in the stands what the defensive schemes are, they don't know

that, just like they don't know if it's policy. they just are rooting on their team. that's all i care about. >> brad, you voted on the trump ticket. has your opinion gotten better or worse of president trump since he became president and why? >> i would say it's the same, maybe slightly better than what i'm pleased tore what i seen from the federal government as far as the speed with which they're doing judicial departments. i have been pleased with most of the department heads a and the regulatory rollbacks. they have done well with passing a budget quirk than in 30 years. those are things that matter to me. >> so you would focus on him again? especially thi i think he has done well on the agenda. >> do you think you would vote for him again in. >> if it was between hillary and donald trump? yes, i would vote donald trump. >> is there another republican in the primary let's say ben sass, two talks about possibly

running against him, or another republican who you consider to be conservative, would you consider voting for another republican in the primary or do you think donald trump has earned a second term? >> i definitely would consider another candidate. >> okay. let me continue. >> brad, let me ask you. what about you? >> i think you have to look at viability. i've always sort of believed you need to let the most conservative electable candidate. >> donald trump, do you think he's conservative? >> i think he was the most conservative on the ballot. >> you mean against hillary in. >> yes. >> so rita. rita, you voted for donald trump. has your opinion gotten better or worse since he became president, your opinion of donald trump? >> probably remains the same. he, when he campaigned, he is just making good his campaign promises now. i did a lot of research when he

was campaigning. there was a book that was given to the delegates along about that time "criminaling america" something like that. and everything he talked about in his book he is strategically working towards that end. whether it's the economy, inserting competition into health care and education, making the military stronger, all of those type things he's doing a very good job with. >> so you would vote for him again? >> depending on who's running. >> you voted for donald trump. >> i did. >> has your opinion gotten better or worse of him since he's become president? >> actually, it's gotten better. i thought he would be more of a deal maker. i think that he has moved forward on the economy at a rate much quicker than we thought he might. could i say or would i say there should be some improvement? i would say yes. i personally think his biggest obstacle in congress is probably the establishment, mitch

mcconnell and paul ryan. i would like to see more conservative elected to congress to aid president trump and pushing forward his agenda. would i vote for him again? yes. >> our thanks to that panel of mississippi voters. coming up, it might seem like alan greenspan wrote the book on the economy and in a way he did. the former fed chair joined us with his new hustory of capitalism in america. "morning i don't" is coyo-yi do morning i don't is co "morning joe" is coming right back.

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. joinling us formjoining us greenspan. it is good to have you both on. >> it's great to have you here. because i'm a capitalist. i didn't pay a dime for it. i read it, saved some money. everybody else has to buy it. so mr. chairman it seems the theme at the center of this is creative destruction and the give and take, the pull from the

innovation, from the creativity that's brought about that fuels the economy and the chaos that it causes, the disruption that it causes and finding that perfect balance. >> well, remember, that's exactly the way a free mark works and what you'd expect to see is as decades go on an generations go on, the means by which we produce our services get more and more sophisticated and in a sense, the microcosm of that is, for example, when some corporation puts on a wholly new facility of how they're produced. their sales are the same. but their unit costs are very much less. and american productivity and hence american growth is driven by the phenomenon of reducing costs, which mean increasing efficiency. and that is the history that

goes throughout the whole book. couple other things that are irrelevant politically. namely, there is something in the american culture which is not evident anywhere else in the world and it enables us after being in terrible shape 20, 30, 40 years ago, to all of a sudden reemerging as the most innovative country in the world. >> so it's also, it's very good adrian to read this book because it's just like politics, where we think this is the worst it's ever been. we're facing new challenges we've ever faced before. you learn that all things old are new again. same here. we're so worried about the disruption of silicon valley. but you all write about the disruption that was caused when suddenly it became much cheaper and easier to produce steel. >> one of the things that happens in the late 19th century is american steel is becoming much, much, cheaper. it's becoming the world's

cheapest and best steel. that's a marvelous thing for the economy as a whole. it's not in you are andrew carnegie. so lots of people are given i driven out of business. this gives rise to a populous movement. which is anger, turbulence and change. so you are always seeing the dynamic on the one hand progress, innovation. on the other hand, parallel resistance, as you say, striking the right creative balance between the two is absolutely the es tensence of what good politics is about. >> it looks at the economy. it also looks ahead and cites some warning signs. >> absolutely. name of some of those. >> we argue america's greatest triumphs the reason america has become a powerful economy, it's very tolerant of creative destruction and that's always powered its capacity to reinvent things and create itself. >> that tolerance, that creative

destruction is declining. america in many ways is becoming a much more fonormal country. >> what are those signs? >> the cre 88iatio creation. it's becoming harold tore create companies the golden gate bridge was built if four years. now if you want to get a permit to apply that will take four years again, that's becoming a problem. soes ability is low. americans have low social ability. historically, this was a country built by pioneers, people tend to stay put n. all sorts of ways america is looking more like europe, more like a settled complacent society and less like the dynamics creative rick taking society that it used to be.

>> following up on social mobile being slowed down, i remember you said at one point after the 2008 crash that one of the great threats to american capitalism was income disparity that we had to again we go back to that word balance. we have to remain who we are, celebrate free markets and capitalism. at the same time, we have to look at the separation between the wealthiest americans and the poorest. >> it's called a constusiitutio. it's remarkable how extraordinary and image native that piece was 1788, 1787. it's seriously changed the number of amendments, variations and interpretation has been remarkably similar, but it enabled us to go in changing conditions and so that the beginning of this republic was

started back in 1789 and it is essentially followed the path which the founding fathers conceived of going up and down, and everyone and wrong direction, we came back. >> so you mention that we're losing a little bit of our spark. >> yes. >> one thing that also seems to be festering is this idea that socialism is an alternative to capitalism. we've heard it a lot in the last 12 months. what does that say about our values and where we can be going forward. if a decent amount of our society believes that socialism is an answer? >> i think it means a lot of people are making a fundamental mistake. if you look at the experience of socialism and britain in the 1970s, it doesn't lead to growth. it leads to stagnation. people are making a mistake for good reason. they don't see the opportunities you used to see in this country.

you don't see the broad stable middle class you see in this country. now the solution is not socialism. it's a more dynamic capitalist commitment but it's hard to see these two things. we have too much rent seeding, stagnation. capitalism isn't the solution is more capitalism. it's not socialism. that's a hard case to make to younger people these days. >> the new book entitled "capitalism in america," a history. alan greenspan and adria adrian waldrich, thank you. "morning joe" is back in a moment. minimums and fees.

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among, among, among, among sea riot which is relentless in calling out the russian strange man's anti-democratic actions. we recently sat down with one of the group's founding measures, natya tolkknonnikova.

>> it all started with you as far as activism goes. tell us about you getting arrested for performing a song in a church in 2012. >> we weren't initially arrested. they decided later. because now everything is being decided in moving high up in the power, because you know our risk was, the result of a decision of kremlin so after two weeks after the performance we were arrested. this was simply the case. in the church we didn't disturb nobody. they told us, up, you want to leave? we feel like your music is not suitable for this place. we say yes, we said everything we wanted to. we pray to virgin mary, we asked her to pray to putin and we were done. >> so tell us about your book.

what are you hoping that people will learn from your story and the message? >> we have to make large prison reform. not only in russia, but if america and other countries, too, that's why i think this book can be useful for those people who care about prisoners rights. hopefully this book can be used for people who start thinking about art activism. because what's good about art activism, maybe when you have three or five team in your team, you don't have people around you, you still can make an impactful message, because art is something that can move people's hearts. >> absolutely. >> so you spernt 18 mspent 18 ms of your life in a prison. give me an average day, what would you do? what would you fill your days with? >> in a personal colony, you have to work. it's into the question. you have to work and openness, had to work from 12 to 16 hours

a day, you are waking up at 35:30 in the morning. you run to have to clean everything and you know like in army you probably saw the music also about it old time american army. so it's like that right now in russia and in american princes too, to clean everything, it's clean already, you have to do it. because you don't have an optioning to on your own. you don't have an option to be in your own thoughts. you have to be useless piece of body, that's it. without any to the, without any criticism to what's happening. then you have to -- 16 hours a day no days off. >> what charges were you in prison for? what was the the official charge? >> my charges were hooliganism in the church. >> one of the most famous activists, i hard from russian activists we make too much of putin and describe him to be

this all powerful man, it hems him at home. i wonder if you think in america we are overstating how powerful he is or you are absolutely right and his power is to be feared in russia? >> do you mean you have to fear putin or fought? you definitely don't have to fear putin. if that's what he wants. that's why i don't, the activists don't give him too much power. it all, that's why i wrote and my fellow activists helped me wrote this book. that's our point. you give them power. if you think they do have power, they do have this .er. if you think there are ineffective, they are corrupted. then you know how to, you know, you know how to attack them and i think that's true for all of us. not just russians, but americans. >> what is your hope for russia after vladimir putin? >> hmm. oh, well, my hope is to build him a credit socialism.

i think we do have really great traditions if russia. they were coming from ussr of feminism and of socialism and right now it looks really up broken. because of the system that putin helds on to. but i believe na russia can be a leader of the free world. >> okay. the book is "read&riot. a pussee riot to activism." thank you very much. we want to turn to our coverage of the deadly kwooild wildfires this past weekend, we went to the shattered community of paradise for first-hand look. [ music playing ] >> reporter: as we drive down skyway road the flames are gone, but a thick layer of smoke remains. eclipseing the sun a per pitch watt dusk descends over the scorched earth.

a stark reminder of what occurred here. emergency crews worked one waivering determination, removing collapsed power lines and massive trees burned from the inside out. we turn down a deserted road. only kim mys remain. i'm standing in which over a week ago was the picturesque town of paradise, california. it is hard to oversee the magnitude of the devastation here. each home gone represents lives changed forever. just up the road, we arrive at the front line of the recovery effort. >> the search and rescue crews are literally going house by house. they've zoned out the community and they want to search every single parcel. >> they have ran across certain components that they thought could be from either a human or animal and they'll call and do

dna testing and make a positive identification. >> reporter: as dusk turns to darkness, first responders get a short reprieve, to reflect on the difficult job they have to do. >> it is relatively indescribable. it is complete and total devastation. we have been tasked to help give the community closure as best we can. >> there is personal for you. you're from paradise? >> yes, sir. >> my sons is up here in a home up here, i think that's typical of our local first responders. we're all touched personally by this incident. >> 15 miles west in the city of chico, the walmart parking lot has become the unofficial reasonable camp for evacuees with nowhere else to go. >> this isn't any organization. this is just people from all over chico and the state that are having to feeding people. it's amazing. >> he thought he lost everything, even his best friend. >> it was just amazing the

support i got from the community to find luna. she got singed pretty bad, but she, you know, we're back together having luna back has made so it much easier. >> just a few cars away, roommates henley and travels are still in shock. >> when i tried to get out of paradise, that's the point where i thought maybe i couldn't lose my own life. because the trees were on fire on either side. >> you don't know what happened to your house? >> i'm sure it burned. i'm burned. but i'm prepared for that. >> a lot of people tell me there was no warning. >> it was way too late. driving through the fire was the most serious thing i've done in my life. i never experienced anything like that. it's hard to sleep at night. you have to close your eyes and you see the fire and just -- i

cand get it out of my head. >> reporter: i promised emily, we would check on her howls. the next day, our worst fears confirmed. a few miles away, dave clemens returned to his home and billions for the first time. >> in a million years i would have never thought any of this could happen. this is a 1931 corvette, fully restored. not anymore. >> that right there has got me upset, though. >> that's your motor psych until. >> that's my bike. that was my pleasure right right there. that's what i did for fun. >> reporter: this was your home? >> upstairs right there, it's all gone. my bed and a bed frame right there. and i tried to get the hose and do something, but i couldn't and so i just grabbed what i could. >> reporter: and get out? >> barely. you see something like this on

television and you feel very badly for people, but when it happens to you, it's considerably difficult. i don't know what i'm going to to now. everything i worked for my whole life was right here. >> reporter: you think we can give you a couple moments to absorb it and get out of your way. >> thank you, thank you very much. [ music playing ] . it's incredible. our prayers to everybody out west. >> that does it for us this morning. so much to be thankful for. stay with msnbc all day for your breaking news and political analysis. we will see you back here for more "morning joe" on monday morning at 6:00 a.m. eernl. have a great day. ♪

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hey, good morning, we got a lot to get to on this black friday, starting with giving thanks. the president spends his holiday like he does pretty much anykay, contradicting the findings of his intelligence agencies and again blasting the chief justice of the supreme court. the one difference, he was making those comments to troops that are in harm's way. let's talk. in their final days in power, the house judiciary committee issues subpoenas to james comey and loretta lynch to appear in a closed door session. comey pushes back