welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. tick tock, lawmakers return to washington next week for a lame republican, but house republicans are doing what they can to make these final days count. they just subpoenaed former fbi director james comey and loretta lynch to testify in closed session about the 2016 campaign. coming just days after we learned more about president trump's interests in having james comey and hillary clinton investigated. comey says he's going to fight the subpoena, calling for a public hearing, telling republicans enough selective leaking. the hearings are scheduled to take place during the first week of december. what's the likelihood that that is going to happen? >> the chairman is holding these hearings, his power evaporates. this is like the last gasps of

the old republican -- >> lawmakers leave for the holidays on december 13th. when they return to washington, democrats will be in charge of the house. we know there are 12 targets for investigations. that's according to "the washington post." i should say that list grew this week after we learned of ivanka trump's use of private e-mail. surprising no one, a president who continues to assail hillary clinton of her e-mails has a different set of rules when it comes to his family. >> very innocent. a short period of time. very early on. there was no deletion of e-mails. there was no bleach bit. there was no anything. >> let's bring in our guests now. tim o'brien is executive editor of bloom berg opinion and the author of trump nation. clint watts, former fbi special agent and the author of "messing with the enemy" and evelyn farkus who served under president obama and with the german marshall fund. clint, let me start with you and the subpoenas.

they sort of came to light during the course of the week as james comey tweeted about it happening and then you had bob good releasing those subpoenas to the public yesterday. what does it say to you that this is happening now? we can do the math, we have not even ten days between when the subpoena would happen and when things -- >> now is the time to get to the bottom of the clinton investigation, right? come on. >> again. >> let's revisit it and then go back to benghazi after that, right? so this is nonsense. and i admire director comey. i would not go into a closed hearing at all. we've seen consistently what happens, questions are asked to comey. comey answers them. selective leaking comes out and will is a connspiracy. it's not good for america and it's nonsense. so i admire that he immediately was like, do it in the open. i would not want to go into house committee at this point behind closed doors. >> evelyn, something that stood

ot out to me, there has been no outreach from the committee to loretta lynch or james comey over these last many months. you've been on capitol hill, you've worked for the senate armed services committee. how extraordinary is that that you would have no conversation, no continuity, and then this happens? >> and then this. i mean, i don't think that in and of itself is so unusual. i think what's unusual is that there's been no outreach between the republicans and the democrats. >> fair enough. for years with, probably. >> yeah. the way that they operate is completely separate from one another. and, of course, we've seen basically the house republican leadership certainly on the intelligence committee veering towards obstruction themselves of justice. because they have not been helping their democratic colleagues try to get to the bottom of what happens with russia. and now there are all these questions about the saudi ebb tanglements, as well. i've seen some very interesting, you know -- i don't know if it's reporting yet, but on possible working of foreign governments together to influence the trump administration. so congress definitely has its work cut out for it. i think we have to push through

this intermediate phase where the republicans try really hard to muddy the waters. >> how much are you paying attention to this last gasp, as jonathan altar called it, giving what we're seeing with them churning out the path going forward come january? >> i think it's another example of what i think the current members in the house have excelled at, which is selective outrage. where was this committee when donald trump, who is the subject of an investigation, who is the target of an investigation, met with rod rosenstein who was in charge of basically this investigation into russia. where was the outrage? where are the committee hearings for that? so i think this is yet another example of what we have seen in the past two years from this congress is you have selective -- so you'rout raged about this, but you're not outraged about that. and we're seen, and we're going to talk about it later with ivanka's e-mails. where are the lock her up chants? >> tim o'brien, help us understand the psychology of

this president, the need that he has to have a foil, somebody to fight against. and i guess there are many at this point, but adam schiff is certainly one of them. there is that misspelling of adam schiff's last name. i'm sure it was an accident, as well. we've heard adam talk about matt whitaker. help us understand that polarity between the president and his foes and how you think that's going to play out. >> well, i don't think it's only that he has a need for it. he enjoys it. he operates most of the time on one level, which is opposition, paranoia, dissent, division. he's profoundly anti-institutional in a profoundly irresponsible way for the president of the united states. and he personalizes that by doing things like going after john roberts or going after jay powell, both who are prosecute presiding over institutions that are a part of the government

defined by the operation of suppo powers. >> and he does it -- and he does it because he knows when he personalizes these things, he can rally his base. he also does it because he's unsophisticated and ignorant and he usually cannot argue things based on fact or he cannot present a strategy or an opposing point of view that is devoid of making fun of someone or taking on someone else's power within his own consolation of choices because he's just not up to it. but it's a dangerous thing. it didn't matter when he was a businessman because the questions of his actions re-sided in this bu teague sort of has-been real estate firm that didn't impact the world. but now he's sitting in the white house and it does. >> every single time and every single thing that you've mentioned, if we apply what i call the obama test, if obama had -- fill in the blank -- i

think that republicans in congress would be outraged. and this is what i'm talking about when i say selectivout rage. so you are not outraged about, you know, trump doing these things and saying these things. but when obama did something as put on a tan suit and go to japan, all of a sudden he was not presidential. he did not represent the country well. he was disrespectful. all of those things that trump does on a daily basis, you have a republican congress that does absolutely nothing. and it is their job to check him and they have failed to do so. and that, i think, is more astonishing, frankly, than trump's behavior. because trump is just but one person. he cannot do these things. and i think many people were very worried with this last midterm election. if we did not come out to society, if people did not come out to vote, who would check this president? i think that was one of the big est rallying cries for voter turnout. >> evelyn, you are on the senate side he, but let's cast on our attention to the house side.

do you see the road map for the democrats coming into focus? i mentioned those 12 targets at the top of the show. what are you taking from it? >> i think they want to shed light on what president trump has been doing. number one, going back to tim's point about his understanding of his role and what is important here. he doesn't seem to understand what american interests are. he only understands his own narrow interests, which is so dangerous. that's why for those of us who cover foreign policy and national security, we're tearing our hair out because he's putting america and americans in danger. so that is one thing. so i think they will highlight that inability to understand what is best for america separate from what is best for the trump family. and the second thing is, and related to that, is the corruption. the corruption is what gets him into situations where he's putting donald trump first and america second or last and our allies somewhere in the middle, down the road there, i don't know. >> i agree. and i think and what i hope for the democrats is when they take these house committees and they

start their investigations is they focus not on retaliation against their political adversaries on the other side. we've seen that, you know,.happen over the last years. >> temptation is there. >> temptation is there and there is expectation with the voters that they will do that. adam schiff and it and the intel community, let's not try and do mueller's job for him very poorly. let's focus on these other things, saudi, yemen, let's focus on these other issues. i think that's much more valuable to the country. >> let's not have it be something that's retaliatory. but let's have congress do their jobs. you mentioned some of these international incidents that they ought to look into, but there's domestic issues that they ought to look into. what happened in puerto rico? how is it that 3,000 people died? why does flint still have brown water? those are the things that congress is supposed to do. how is it that we can with rip children out of the arms of migrants who show up to our

borders and present themselves for asylum and lock them in cages. those are things that americans want to see, as well. that is a functioning congress. that is their job, jooversight. >> the president has never fully separated himself from his business interests. it's bled down into his administration. you see it with ryan zinke. you see it with wilber ross and betsy devos. i think this congress and this house has a role to play with exercising what we want out of government. so me, that is about process and good government. and this congress can do a lot to bring facts to the american public about how the trump administration is operating and why they haven't really divided them, separated themselves from their own self-interests. >> it seems to me that that was bound to happen or likely to happen. here we are two years in. how entackled is that when you look at the application of how

he applied his business to government. >> well, i think mark twain would be spinning in his grave. trump said he was going to come into washington and train the swamp. all he's done is fill it with bigger bigg bigger alligators. >> i think he doesn't understand, though, what is the swamp and what is the swamp creature. for those of us thinking it is behind closed doors, exchanging money, but he thinks the bureaucracy, the experts in government, people like we used to be, that those people are the swamp. those people are the people who are there to execute the government's business. they're the experts who tell you what is legal, what is illegal. he doesn't like that. he thinks they're the swamp. >> when it's the money. >> but so long as they interfere

with the ability to make money. and that is what i think is indicative here and is important to point out, that he only finds those institutions to be the swamp if they interfere with private industry being able to make money. >> let's come back here in just a moment. up next, miles of wire instead of a wall, thousands of u.s. troops along the border. the hefty price tag for the border support operation and how much that price tag is going to go up. i just got my ancestrydna results: 74% italian.

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we have a very powerful border now. we have the cozantino wire and so many other things are there now that they didn't have. >> cozantina wire. you just heard the president describing what may be the most tangible result of the u.s. deployment to the mexican border. this is what we know about the operation. roughly 5800 active duty troops on the southern border, plus 2100 national guard troops. the price tag stands at $72 million. but that is likely to go up to $210 million by mid-december. one more stat, they aid 799 pounds of turkey of

thanksgiving. secretary mattis outlined what that $72 million paid for. this is like buying concertina wire, paying for the expenses. >> let me turn to you, first drop on your expertise working in the defense department here. you see the -- i don't know if unease is the right word, but when you look at the secretary of defense and other military commanders, not knowing what's going to happen next with this mission, what the primary purpose is and how much it's going to cost. >> what kills me with the this, david, first and foremost, it's the waste. there's a costly political stunt. active duty troops going to the border. these are highly trained men and women. they should be preparing for combat. that's what they're prepared to do. this kind of mission should only be conducted if all else has failed.

and we know, ask the governors of the states where they're deployed, all else has not failed. the law enforcement and the national guard are there. everything is find on the border. so it's a big waste of money and it's coming at the same time we just had a report that came out last week from a panel of experts that congress commissioned and they said we're not putting resources into our military in the right places and we don't have enough resources to combat russia and china, to compete with russia and china. so it's a colossal waste. so that's what's happening at the top level. hans was in texas on the the border where all of this is happening on thanksgiving day. let's see a little of his reporting from that day. >> they have 800 pounds of turkey. how much are you cooking for? >> roughly about 2,300. >> 2,300. how are you going to spend your day? everyone else has the day off, but you guys are working. >> that's part of the job. that comes with the territory. that's what i signed up for, to

help the troops morale and that's pretty much what i'm here for. >> what's next? where do you think this mission is headed? >> whatever the chain of command and the president says, that's what we're going to do. >> somebody react to that, the absence to that last question in particular. doesn't want to speculate on what was going to happen next, but there's some brevity for what he had to say there. >> he's reaching for words to make sure he doesn't get into trouble and because he's been put in a bad position. what is the mission down there? it's to delay concertina wire and play flag football. these soldiers are literally eating turkey and living out of tents and you can see fast food joints at times in the background. this is demoralizing for them, especially if they've been deploying overseas. the military has been stretched to the point where we have done iraq and afghanistan. iraq, again, a little bit. afghanistan continuing it. we've done troop surges in two different places over the last

18 years. look at where we're at. we have not resolved afghanistan. iraq isn't going that great. and we are putting soldiers down at the border. think about the morale. did they join to go stare across the mexican border and put down wire? no. and we were talking about korea. this time last year, we were talking about deploy to go korea. you're taking soldiers and moving them around the world rapidly and they're going to start questioning what they're there for. what is the morale like? why would you continue to seven when you're just serving the interests of a guy who wanted to win an election. >> evelyn, there's political reporting detailing the debate among the president and his advisers about whether to authorize lethal force and it was john kelly and this group of hawkish anti-immigration activists among the other. we keep going back to the comments that the president made when he was at mar-a-lago on the phone with members of the

military, comments he made to the press afterward. and he was, dare i say, almost cavalier about this lethal force issue saying we're going to authorize it, hope it doesn't come to that. help us understand the magnitude of allowing that to happen. a lot of people thinking back to what happens in 1997. >> in the 1800s, congress passed a law that basically said that the federal government should not send in federal forces, military forces, to any state, basically, unless the state was unable to maintain order. and the few exceptions where active duty military were deployed to states were in cases of disasters, like katrina, but then usually they were put under the authority of the governor. in one exception, one very notable exception in the 50s when president eisenhower saw in arkansas they were not implementing the brown v. board of education law, the supreme court decision against

segregation, he said active duty military needs to go in. because the criteria is either the local or state government can't or won't enforce the law, right? you go to those states today, they can and they will enforce the law and they have national guard forces. so the president is doing something very dangerous. it's probably illegal. it probably won't stand up in court. i'm not a lawyer. you are. >> i am definitely not a lawyer. >> i am. >> let's end it with that. how do you see all of this resolving itself? >> i think if there were to be a legal challenge, i would find illustrate to be quite interesting if a court in listening to this didn't say that this was not authorized properly for the very reasons that you just laid out. i think at the end of all of the this is that this cara van that had been pumped up, the mass hysteria, they're coming with diseases and they're a bunch of tough guys, none of that has been based upon fact. this has not been as big of an issue a as he's purported it to

be. and we know that why? because after the midterm election, he went radio silent on the issue. it was quiet. all of a sudden, this mass hysteria, this build up trying to rile people up and basically get people to be ainge ry about a group of people that they do not know is a fallacy. not only did they not reach the border in time for the midterm elections, you were sending our active duty military people there to deal with a problem that, guess what, does not exist. >> evelyn, great to see you in person. one of roger stone's associates now playing robert mueller's game, how a possible plea deal could bring roger stone back into the spotlight.

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welcome back to "up." i'm david gura. there is another issue in the plea deal involving corsi, who is now telling nbc news that he is in talks with robert mueller. earlier this month, he said he feared being indicted for perjury. robert mueller's team is interested in corsi because of his association with roger stone. the question being what do the two men know about wikileaks and

those hacked e-mails during the presidential campaign. here is roger stone speaking of michael caputo's radio show yesterday. >> anybody who has followed jerry corsi's interviews and his own podcasts over the last couple of weeks realizes that he's been under relentless pressure, evidently, to say what the special counsel wants him to say. he told nbc news. my crime is i didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. this idea that jerry corsi could implicate me, there's simply no evidence whatsoever. >> very happy to have alli joining us at the table after a long stint in florida. clint, let me turn to you first and get your sense of where all of this is headed. for these last few weeks, the focus has been on roger stone and this group of informal advisers and friends surrounding him including jerome corsi. your sense of how close they're getting and what the principal interest is here. >> they're trying to see from the collusion angle if anyone

knew about the hillary clinton e-mails and the dnc server, any of this stuff is coming out in advance because that would be forewarning. it seems like they're pushing all around the perimeter on roger stone. and anybody who was in contact with during that time. but what we also should remember is manafort. that means they're making grounder or pushing back. i expect in the next two to three weeks, you'll see some sort of circling. if you see a plea agreement that plays through or if you'll see somebody else show up to testify. i think you'll see major motion start to go through. we have to assume over those two months before the election, the midterm election, they were building a pretty strong case and making gains. and we've heard about subpoenas being challenged and going to appeals. that will play out probably in the next two to three weeks. >> alley, help me understand the tack. you heard roger stone talking about the appreciate that that his friend, dr. corsi, has been over these past few weeks.

do you hear signs of roger stone's voice that the pressure is mounting on him, as clint just said? >> i think when you watch the president, everyone who has ever been around him adopts that same tactic. it's survival. we were talking during the commercial break about loyalty, how president trump is loyal to those who are loyal to him. that's not true. we've watched -- not that the white house does press briefings any more, i worked there and i saw them say paul manafort hardly worked for the campaign. i covered that campaign. he absolutely covered the campaign. >> there is something about a certain cavalierness about this investigation happening earlier on. corsi, the issue is whether or not he told the truth to investigators. this seems to be something coming out more widely when you

look at that inner circle. >> they're not cav va here any mor more. i think they understand what they're facing. he spent most of his political career in pounding people into submission. and i think the idea that corsi, that mueller would only be relying on verbal testimony at this point, you know, he's built up, i would assume, an ample documentary trail here, too. roger stone was in touch with russian hackers, famously gusserford 2.0 through his own text messaging and e-mail. there's a paper trail here in addition to witnesses that can provide verbal testimony. and i think that roger stone is worried. i think that corsi is worried. i think you've seen the bravado lesson. and i think they know there's probably something at a minimum what they did does not look good. they may argue about whether or not it broke the law, but i think it would appear at this point that mueller has a substantial case. >> when there's a base of

documentary evidence, there's questions now that president trump has submitted or his lawyers submitted after he answered them personally. i know there's an extraordinary piece in the ap about how there was going to be this sit down at camp david. that was when president trump was going to sit down with robert mueller and his team to answer questions and that meeting, of course, was scuttled. your response about how this fits into the investigation, where that tells you about where it stands. >> well, i think these are all pieces to the puzzle and i think mueller has been done a fantast fantastic job, he and the team that he's assembled to look into all the issues that have been underlying this. but i think where we are going with this is we are going to see what role did each one of these people play into whether or not there was collusion with russia from this campaign from 2016 and whether or not there's been any obstruction in terms of this investigation into the collusion. but one of the things that i can it's important to point out is with respect to stone and corsi is you do not get to sit down

with the special prosecutor to talk about either entering into a plea deal if you yourself did not commit some underlying wrongdoing or some offense. i mean, it's not like, hey, it's saturday, let's just sit down and have doughnuts with mueller. no, boo-boo, you probably did -- like you probably did something that was on the line of being illegal and so he has that over you. so now you've got to talk and this idea that corsi would perhaps be providing information that is inaccurate to mueller, highly unlikely. highly unlikely. >> let's come back here. >> just a moment. we are days away from a vote count as mike espy tries to pull off a last minute upset in mississippi. a little bit of water, it really- it rocked our world. i had no idea the amount of damage that water could do. we called usaa. and they greeted me as they always do.

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the midterms were 18 days ago, but they are not over yet. next tuesday is a special runoff between democrat mike espy and the incumbent republican senate senator hyde-smith. she has come under fire for saying to a supporter, quote, if he invited me to a public hanging, i would be on on the front row. she apologized on a debate this week but she said her opponent was quote, twisting her comments. race is a big issue in this election as it was for the race for governor in georgia and the race for governor in florida, as well. vaughn hilliard has been following this race for us.

he's in jacksonville, mississippi, with the latest. i want to talk to you about race as an issue. we were talking yesterday about health care yet. to what degree is race supplanting those issues as they head to the ballot box on tuesday? >> it is those tapes of cindy hyde-smith in the conversation of race that are the first topics that they bring up. so while issues are ultimately as important to them as we were talking about yesterday, the conversations around cindy hyde-smith's conversations about sitting in the front row for a public hanging and in the aftermath after the following weeks where you call it a quasi apology or those that were offended, as one person said, when you apologize to somebody, you look them in the eye. you find some reparations to make up for them. in that case, i should note that today is the first time we'll have a chance to follow up with

cindy hyde-smith. she will be in the northern part of the state. she has not been publicly accessible for more than a week. >> in mississippi, hal rains who headed up the "new york times" for a while wrote a piece about think about with what minneapolis in mississippi this week. the conventional wisdom is the race has tightened, but espy will fall short of the voters democratic strategists think he needs to win. >> what's the strategy he has to get those white voters to support mike espy? >> that is exactly right. joe, i just talked to him the other day and he said they need 25% of white voters in this state. the one thing that could give them an edge is the african-american voters in this state. somehow the onus always turns out on the african-american

voters. this is the same conversation, david. we had one year ago in alabama. the conversation was are black voters energiedized. you know what they did? they turned out a higher share that the voting electorate than the actual share of the population than the african-american voters made up in the state of alabama. so that is something we have presented some time on. the conversation is how many of the white voters. despite finding her comments distasteful, we need them to come out and vote for the democrat in this race and take a stand for the future of mississippi, david. >> thank you so far. alley, you spent many weeks in florida. turnout was a story there, as

well. how do you react to what you heard vaughn talking about in mississippi? >> i think the thing that has been interesting to me is the way that republicans have run with these kinds of dog whistles and not really been punished by the electorate for them. and the person i'm thinking of top of mind is ron desantis who began the first day of his general election by saying he didn't want floridans to monkey this up, the progress that he's seen in the state. and the head adviser said well, he says it all the time. he didn't mean it like that. and he apologized in the same way cindy hyde-smith said what she wanted to say. but ron desantis wasn't smacked byback for that kind of talk. he was, in fact, elected governor of florida. so i think it's notable that someone like doug jones can be electriced in a state of alabama, but i don't necessarily think that that race is a good example and i've struggled with it because roy moore is an

irreparable example in all of these cases. so this mississippi senate race plays by more conventional rules and i don't think we're going to see voters smack back cindy hyde-smith because she made some rationally charged comments. >> i think it's important to step back and look at the state of mississippi. when you talk about the history of mississippi in terms of racism, it's important to recognize how damaging her statement was to the african-american community. it's important to recognize that after she made that statement, she was caught on camera talking about voter suppression and how important it was that certain people not vote, students with, and that those students not vote like the others. who are the others? what are you talking about? as someone who wants to be a

senator of the state to talk outright about voter suppression, and we know she's talking about suppressing the black vote. we saw it in the state of georgia. we've seen it all over this country, measures to suppress and quiet the black vote. so i think the black community will come out and vote. and it's my hope that the good people of mississippi say we don't want to be known as the history, a state that has had this history with racism. we want to move forward as a state and we are not going to support someone who believes this way. >> but i think that's what alley is speaking to. you may not see that in mississippi like you saw -- >> my thing is, i remain hopeful and i hope that you do. we cannot continue as a country to have the morality of this country be on the backs of black voters. you saw it in alabama. we hope the black vote comes out. what about the white vote?

why sit that white americans are talking about people outright making these statements? some of them are dog races and some of them are not. stop sort of relying on black men and women voters to be the moral backbone of this country and where people need to step up. >> i also think for cindy hyde-smith, it's an interesting thing that yes, there's a racial component to the this, but a lot of these voters are not deciding simply based on race, but they're deciding on republican or democrat and trumper orrer not trump. >>. >> there's the photograph of her with the condition confederate cam on. there's the work that she did to rename a highway after jefferson davis down in mississippi. to what degree is that a narrative thread that we've seen may out over the midterms? >> it's fascinating because a lot of these elections weren't

close enough that i think journalists and a lot of people dug into this sort of stuff. how are we just now finding out about they things? >> alabama, florida, out to arizona, the gop continues to dublg down on immigration and race in a certain way to try and mobilize people for their candidates. that is a losing strategy. u seeing people start to change their direction with regards to trump. it's very overt from my perspective just watching. trump and whoever he is going to in these gop races, they are going to double down on that. they're going to say, no, no, maybe we said something not appropriate, but they're going to drive it into the ground.

men and women are losing votes consistently. america is changing and they're not changing with it. up next, eye.ivanka trump used a personal e-mail account to send hundreds of e-mails about government business. jimmy kimmel wants to know if the press is going to come to his daughter's defense. (pirate girl) ahoy!!!!! gotcha! (girl) nooooooooooooo!

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she met with, you know, senior diplomates from japan and china at a time when she was sourcing goods for her apparel and accessories business from overseas. she -- when she worked in the trump organization, she and her brothers helped their father promote properties with very rosy overprojections about their

sales prospects. for investors and potential buyers and didn't really blink at the idea that their behavior was i think there's a pattern here. >> clint, i was learning a lot about cybersecurity there. bleach bitting. >> which is something he heard yesterday. >> right. we're laughing about it. to tim's point, this was something that hillary clinton hit on time and time and time again. >> you would think you might have a briefing with the whole team and say we might screw up, the one thing we don't want to do is send e-mails from a personal account. we just spent two years going crazy on hillary clinton about this. maybe we shouldn't do that.

they did. it just shows in terms of how unaware they are, of course this was going to come up. the first time ivanka sends a personal e-mail about government business someone is going to turn that into a news article immediately. everyone knows this. yet they still seem to think, oh, i can't believe it, they're trying to minimize, always the first act of someone is guilty if you're talking to them. >> that's right. >> the president did them all in about 30 seconds, lined it up. deflected back on what hillary clinton did. we're still -- like we were talking about, we are still looking into the clinton e-mails, we'll jump into bengahzi two moves after that. >> how is the quality of the defense? you are the defense attorney. you listened to the president there answering questions from reporters. he addressed this a few times now. is this something that will have staying power? will this be an issue that will dog the president? >> i think the defense is weak. i think the defense is

incredibly weak. for him to say it happened in the first weeks or what have you is not particularly relevant. i think it's important to point out that what ivanka is alleged to have done is far worse than what hillary is alleged to have done. she sent personal e-mails from a regular personal e-mail account. hillary had a sever installed in her home where she sent the e-mails from. so in terms of security, in terms of being able to breach the information or the data conveyed in those e-mails, it's far more likely i think -- >> you're saying it was actually better the way that hillary clinton had this set up. >> i'm saying if you're comparing what ivanka did to what hillary did one could argue -- i'm not a cybersecurity expert. >> neither is the president. >> one could argue the mechanism -- she was basically using like a hotmail account. hillary had an actual server that was self-contained.

for him to be so cavalier about it, again it goes to underline what i talked about at the beginning of the show, the selective outrage from trump and from his supporters, and from republicans in congress as well. you know, why not be consistent. so if you're not consistent on this, you're not credible about your criticism of hillary using the e-mails. that's how it works. >> is this going to be a big issue on capitol hill? how do you think -- are these rocks that will be overturned? >> sure. i guess it depends. you wanted to see which rocks they're willing to overturn. i imagine tax returns is high on that list, as i think it should be. with this the whole ivanka thing is stunning to me. it's the same but slightly different, right? i can't wait until the president goes back on the campaign trail and still says something about her e-mails and her server. >> even though this happened. >> even though this is happening

to his daughter. ivanka is adjudicating this the same way hillary clinton did, through her personal lawyer, now she's arguing maybe my e-mails were actually about yoga. that's why you don't have to see them. >> thanks to all of you. coming up, joy reid talks about the mississippi senate race and whether mike espy can pull ahead 11th hour. jen: but that all changed when we bought a house. matt: voilà! jen: matt started turning into his dad. matt: mm. that's some good mulch. ♪ i'm awake. but it was pretty nifty when jen showed me how easy it was to protect our home and auto with progressive. [ wrapper crinkling ] get this butterscotch out of here. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. there's quite a bit of work, 'cause this was all -- this was all stapled. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.

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thank you very much for watchin watching. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> i fully anticipate in the next few days i will be indicted by mueller for some form or other of giving false information to the special counsel or to one of the other grand jury or however they want to do the indictment. but i'll be criminally charged. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." i hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. donald trump spent his at m mar-a-lago. he may or may not have spent it wondering who might be the next friend or associate to flip on him in the russiagate probe. that clip that you just saw was roger stone associate,