watchin watching. "a.m. joy" starts right now. >> i fully anticipate in the next few days i will be indicted by mueller for some form or other of giving false information to the special counsel or to one of the other grand jury or however they want to do the indictment. but i'll be criminally charged. >> good morning. welcome to "a.m. joy." i hope you enjoyed your thanksgiving. donald trump spent his at m mar-a-lago. he may or may not have spent it wondering who might be the next friend or associate to flip on him in the russiagate probe. that clip that you just saw was roger stone associate, corsi. there's still no indictment, but

a plea deal could be in the works. the "washington post" first reported and corsi later confirmed he was in plea negotiations with the special counsel. if the two sides do reach a deal, it could be key in determining whether trump or his advisers knew in advance whether wikileaks planned to release stolen democratic e-mails during the presidential campaign or if trump was merely a wikileaks super fan. >> this just came out. wikileaks. i love wikileaks. >> i love wikileaks. >> they have to start talking about wikileaks. >> the wonder of wikileaks. wikileaks. they have revealed a lot. >> wikileaks. >> wikileaks. >> that came out on wikileaks. this wikileak stuff is unbelievable. it tells you the inner heart. you have to read it. >> let's bring in mya wiley and

paul butler. also matthew miller and elliott williams. thank you all for being here. i'll start with you, mya. jerome corsi, friend of roger stone, is in plea talks with muller. a person familiar with the talks said the prosecutors presented mr. corsi with evidence that he had not be truthful when investigators asked him whether he knew beforehand that wikileaks was going to publish e-mails stolen from democratic computers during the campaign. he knows he lied. he said it on his own show. >> right. >> so it doesn't seem to be the wise move to lie to the fbi. that's what he did. he's admitting it. that means what? >> it means he's facing at minimum a perjury charge. we don't know if there are other charges, and if he's in plea negotiations it means he has something to offer robert mueller and his team. >> yep.

>> the important question becomes what might that be. there was some suggestion and exchange earlier this week that there may have been information about whether or not he knew that there was a conversation with donald trump, between roger stone and donald trump. remember we have a lot of lying from a lot to of folks. >> yep. who have been connected with the trump campaign. >> yes. >> he's just yet another. roger stone is the person who is most likely right in the cross hairs in terms of who might be indicted next. there's no question that he and mr. corsi not only have a relationship but have been having a lot of communications about the e-mail exchanges. >> let's talk about who jerome corsi is. he started the birther lobby. was infowars d.c. bureau chief.

writer for the world net daily. roger stone testified to the house intelligence committee that corsi gave him opposition research in john podesta in 2016. here is roger stone yesterday on his radio show. >> the assertion that jerry corsi knew in advance that john podesta's e-mails had been obtained and would be published would be news to me because he never told me anything of the kind, and he never obviously passed on any such documents. >> okay. so, paul, roger stone is very good at saying i didn't know anything. during the campaign he said i know what's coming. you're going to be in the barrel next. he's doing a good job of saying i don't know anything about anything. what is the thing that could be offered that's bigger than you if you're jerome corsi? >> again, it could be that robert mueller does not come for people lying to his

investigators. he already indicted gates, flynn and popodopolus. more likely is mueller is throwing the book at corsi to force him to tell the truth. so i'm a chicago cubs fan. there's the famous double play, so think. jerome corsi to roger stone to donald trump. corsi and donald trump were bonding over their shared lie about where the president was born. if corsi talked to trump, if he talked to paul manafort, roger stone's former business partner about anything to do with the timing of the wikileaks hack e-mail, if they coordinated, that's collusion. that's conspiracy, that's a federal crime.

>> so elliott williams, let's go to that. if -- so we know wikileaks published the stolen e-mails. they're trying to pass themselves off saying they're a journalistic outfit that received this leak, that's what they did. we know the e-mails were stolen and hacked by a russian outfit, 13 members of which have been indicted. is it required that someone in the campaign or someone associated with donald trump told him, hey, these e-mails are going to be dumped out. and is just knowing that this stolen material was going to come out in and of itself a crime? >> again, people are sort of hungry for the smoking gun, the smoking e-mail, the e-mail from vladimir@kremlin.ru. donald, here are the e-mails, i will serve them for you on a platter. we have a constellation of people who may have been

passing -- knowingly passing this information on to the campaign. so while there may not be the direct nexus that i think people who are unfamiliar with this stuff might be expecting a direct link, this is how investigations are built. there's a web and a network of contacts between potentially corsi and wikileaks, corsi and stone and stone and the campaign. robert mueller and the counsel team are working to put that together. there's the saying that history is written by the victors sort of. here i feel like the public perception is written by the people who are tweeting. the one person we're not hearing from is robert mueller. so we don't know exactly what they have. we are hearing jerome corsi's crack pot theories on his podcast. i will say six words i'm not proud of, i listen to jerome corsi's podcast. >> what are you doing with your time? >> excuse me?

i know. it's 63 minutes of my life i won't get back. but the simple fact is they're presenting these theories, and all this information. but it's there. there's potentially a link there. who knows what robert mueller has and what the special counsel folks will put together. we don't know yet. >> by the way, on this question, we had this discussion for -- how long have we been doing this? almost two years? about whether collusion is a crime or whether you have to call it a conspiracy. there's a guy named randall eliason who says it is a crime. he says it can be and the crime is conspiracy even if no other independent criminal violations are identified. mueller's use of that theory in his indictment is a textbook example of a 371 conspiracy to defraud the u.s., and that theory has been validated by the trial judge's ruling. both of you are nodding that's

true. >> yes. part of it is these 19 russian intelligence officers were indicted for conspiracy to defraud the united states. again, it's not a vague conspiracy just to mess up the election. it's a conspiracy to get donald trump elected. >> one important point, you don't have to -- they don't have to have actually influenced the outcome of the election in order to be guilty of a crime. >> moreover it carries with it the same sentence as the underlying offense. if you conspired to commit wire fraud or whatever, you can be charged and sentenced and prosecuted for the full offense. >> it's like if you conspire to rob a bank, even if you didn't come away with the money, you are guilty. >> drove the getaway car. >> exactly. all of this hinges on the fact that we'll have an unfettered investigation, that mauler will be able to complete it. it won't be interfered with by the justice department. you used to work there.

now we're looking at a guy named matthew whitaker running the justice department. how can the american people be confident that whatever it is that mueller comes out with will, "a," become public, "b" presented to congress in a way that it can become public and transparent and that it won't be interfered with by matthew whitaker? >> i don't think they can at all be confident in that fact. there are strong institutional pressures for someone inside the justice department to do the right thing. if you try to quash an investigation without evidence that it ought to be ended. if you interfere, if you do something inappropriate, there will be people who write memos about it. people will leak about it and it will come out to congress. that is probably true. but it doesn't mean that if you have someone who is in that job solely to unduly influence the investigation, someone who is there so quash a subpoena for

the president or keep a report from coming before congress, they may decide it's worth taking that risk. it's worth taking the political scandal of quashing an investigation, that's what they're there to do. they cut a deal with the president to do that. that's the concern i have about matthew whitaker. ultimately if we get too the end of this investigation, the special counsel said he cannot indict the president and he has submitted a report to the grand jury and wants that to go to congress or wants to submit a report directly to congress, that's the kind of thing where you could see the acting attorney general reaching in and stopping that report from being made public. you would see it subpoenaed, litigated, and that litigation could go on for months if not years. so people should not have confidence that the attorney general can't do that. they need to fight as much as they can to ask for mueller's conclusions to ultimately be made public in some shape or form. >> absolutely. >> the concern is that litigation could be going on

right now and we wouldn't know. under the regulations the only things we find out right away is if whitaker fires mueller. if mueller comes to whitaker and says i want to subpoena donald trump to the grand jury or i want to indict jared kushner, whitaker says no, you can't do that. under the law we don't find that out until the end of the investigation. >> under the regs he is supposed to notify congress, and with the democrats coming into the house in january that does at least give them the power to try to create accountability there for those decisions. the other thing is really important, if this corsi plea, whatever becomes of it, turns into an indictment of roger stone, which we expect it will, the indictment itself and whatever comes forward from the indictment can't become public if there's a trial. that's a small little ray of

hope. that could also take a long time. remember that this is -- roger stone is a key player in this in the sense that he's the one who got paul manafort hired by the campaign, he started -- he tried to buy information from hacked e-mails from henry greenberg back in the spring of 2016. he's the same guy that in july of 2016 kept saying that the russians had e-mails. then the day he was supposed to have dinner with julian assange he started saying it wasn't the russians, it wasn't the russians. that's a suspect public record already. so an indictment of roger stone may not be a small thing. >> indeed. the other things people are concerned about is whether or not if there is a subpoena. rudy giuliani this week said he doesn't think that mueller would win a battle to subpoena donald trump, which you would think the

nixon press dented cedent is thd win that battle. >> it's hard to take just about anything rudy giuliani says seriously. i'm serious though. this is an individual, he has a career as a prosecutor and so on but has gone off the rails the last couple of years. let's start from that framework. sort of like matt had said before, any question over subpoenaing a president will end up in court and it will take a very, very long time to litigate. there are very strong arguments for why the president ought to and could have to submit to a subpoena, but i'll be candid that there are reasons why that argument might lose. it will open up a lot of complicated litigation that could last certainly through the president's -- through the presidency and beyond. again, potentially robert mueller or the special counsel team that stuff in the hands of other prosecutors offices, in the hands of other offices

within main justice that could get that information another way. just because of the legal complexities that might be created by either whitaker shutting it down or funny business from the white house. it's going to take a long time and it just remains to be seen how this shakes out. if it wound up in the supreme court, now donald trump has his ring ner in there, brett kavanaugh. >> but a chief justice who is willing to scrap with him. >> at least verbally. we'll see. >> thank you all very much. coming up, more on donald trump's saudi arabia first policy. i saw my leg did not look right. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's...

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hey, everybody. it's thanksgiving week. i'm here at the greater chicago food depository. >> how are you? >> they do great work making sure that those who are not as fortunate -- >> well, happy thanksgiving to you. that was former president barack obama spending his thanksgiving volunteering at a chicago fo food bank. on the whole other side of the ledger it goes without saying that -- this is a hell of a transition. it is highly unusual for republicans to criticize donald trump. well, they actually did criticize donald trump.

they criticized him this week. they joined democrats in condemning trump's shocking defense of saudi arabia following the murder of "washington post" jamal khashoggi. instead of backing his own cia's assessment that crown prince mohammed bin salman did this, he made executions. >> their vehemently denying it. we have hundreds of thousands of jobs. do people really want me to give up hundreds of thousands of jobs? >> it should be noted what you heard is not true. the u.s. is not dependent on saudi arabia for jobs. far from it. we're not even dependent on them for energy. we get four times more oil from canada than saudi arabia. the trump administration itself cited ten times fewer jobs than

400,000 when it discussed saudi deals last may. still trump's behavior while shocking should not be surprising at all considering his belief that authoritarian figures over his own intelligence agencies. it raises some familiar questions about his motives. let's go to our guests. thank you all for being here. so, let me play one of the republicans who actually took exception to donald trump's stance on saudi arabia this week. this is somebody who never breaks with donald trump. he is one of his chief supporters and excuse makers, lindsey graham. >> here's what i believe. saudi arabia needs us more than we need them. it's not too much to ask an ally not to butcher a guy in a cans

lat. this is not world war ii. i'm not going to look away at what mbs did. >> so this is unusual. to even have republicans criticizing donald trump making an excuse for the saudis. it's not unusual in the world. i know you're privy to the way the world is watching donald trump's a reaction to jamal khashoggi's murder. how is the world reacting? >> they are dismissing donald trump and they know that donald trump will never stand up for the rule of law for morality legality. but they are moving forward. and if you saw the hearings -- this is where the next congress and senate can play a role, the hearing at the european parliament last week where there were many testimonies, i was one of the people who gave expert advice and within hours germany

decided to stop -- to have an embargo of any sales of weapons with saudi arabia. denmark followed. they decided -- germany led the way, and they decided to bar the 18 killers, the saudi killers from entering any european count country. it's an unprecedented thing. they need saudi jobs, actually. they need to import and export with saudi arabia. however they decided to uphold the rule of law. they understand that america is on a different path many diplomats whisper privately that the next senate and the next congress intelligence committees and other committees should investigate any financial ties between saudi arabia and donald trump and jared kushner. >> yeah. i think that's the point a lot of people are getting to, david.

"washington post's" fred ryan wrote a piece trump's dangerous message to tyrants, flash money and get away with murder. it is well known because donald trump keeps saying it that he has financial ties to the saudis, here is donald trump in 1991, the royal family purchased the yacht princess for $20 million. 2001, saudi government purchased the 45th floor of the trump world tower. here is donald trump talking about his business with the saudis back in 2015. >> saudi arabia -- i get along great with all of them. they buy apartments from me, they spend 40 million, 50 million? am i supposed to dislike them? i like them very much.

>> do you get the sense that this is about 400,000 jobs which are not even really 400,000 jobs, or is it about his own personal bank account? >> it's about donald and money. the trump family is all about what they call winning, and that means putting money in their pockets. whether they earned it legally, stole it or cheated, that's just fine with them so long as they get paid. duty and honor, which ought to be at the center of any presidency are words that have no meaning to donald trump. this is a man who never did one day of public service before he took the oath of office that he goes around violating all the time. donald is also highly gullible. oh, putin said he didn't interfere, he didn't interfere. mbs and his staff say we didn't do it, then they didn't do it. >> i guess, matt, that is what

has thrown off even some republicans who don't ever criticize donald trump for anything. that he seems to just take the word of almost any autocrat instantly but he doesn't trust the cia's assessment. now the saudis wanted nuclear fuel. "new york times" reporting lurking behind the transaction is the question of whether a saudi government that assassinated mr. khashoggi could be trusted with nuclear fuel and technology which could be used for nuclear purposes. you have this president going hard on iran, getting out of the iran nuclear deal, but now excusing the saudi government when they seem to want to have nuclear fuel. >> that's right. i don't think we know why drum sp trump is so compliant with the

wishes of the saudi government. it may be because of his own financial interests, or his son-in-law is best friends with the saudi crown prince or east hahn easy mark. if you throw a big party for donald trump, if you project his face on to the ritz carlton, he will turn around and do whatever you want. the worry is we did hear republicans criticize him. you played that clip of lindsey graham saying he won't look the other way, but we know that's not true. we've seen two years of him and others looking the other way. now it's not just up to republicans in congress. you have adam schiff who said he will investigate the president's financial ties to this saudi regime, the saudi leadership and financial interests. i think it's critical that because this president has been so opaque about where his money comes from, where he has ties, where is he compromised. we don't know if he's beholden to saudi arabia, russia, other

countries. there's a ray of hope that you will see some sunlight shed into those finances and we might get some indication as to why he acts at times in so contradiction with american interests. >> bob corker who is leaving, he said he was writing a press for the saudis. having just come back from europe, what do people in european capitals think? do they believe this congress, that republicans talking about donald trump's reaction to this murder, do they think the congress will do anything about it? >> they hope that the next congress, the next senate, democrats, adam schiff would hold -- uphold the rule of law at least, however they have zero confidence. remember when republicans would say america is a laughing stock around the world when president obama was in office? president trump in a short matter of time turned america in

a laughing stock. the most corrupt country on earth. when you talk to diplomats, they are all vocal now, even president macron was vocal about how nationalism is a bad idea. it's almost treasonous idea. if i might add regarding, there's one sentence that the president said. he might have done it. maybe he didn't do it. actually we know for a fact that the head of the cia told her counterparts in turkey that they have a recording of mohammed bin salman, the crown prince, telling his brother, the saudi ambassador to the u.s. to silence jamal khashoggi. we have evidence that mbs is behind the savage murder of jamal khashoggi. however the president decides -- and i think for clear reason, why saudi arabia would be his first foreign trip after he bashed them during the election campaign? why would he go out of his way to defend the saudis?

because there's money involved. follow the money. that's what we need to investigate. >> indeed. follow the money. that is the rule of thumb for dealing with anything related to this president. thank you all. coming up, trump finds yet another way to denigrate the united states military.

for all his big talk about his love for the military, donald trump can't seem to stop disrespecting it. on friday the trump administration asked the supreme court to fast track his transgender troop ban before lower courts got to hear the case. urging the justices to uphold his ban claiming president obama's policy of allowing transgender personnel to serve poses "an unreasonable burden on the military that's not conducive to military readiness and lethality." even though transgender troops serving openly will have no effect on military readiness or k cohesion. we'll have more when we come back.

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president obama celebrated thanksgiving by volunteering at a chicago food bank. donald trump opted to go in a different direction spending time at his mar-a-lago private membership club. instead of giving back or giving thanks, he seemed to embrace the tradition of airing grievances during the annual traditional thanksgiving day phone call meant to thank troops.

>> you probably see over the news what's happening in our southern border and our southern border territory. large numbers of people and in many cases we have no idea who they are, in many cases they're not good people. they're bad people. it's a terrible thing when judges take over your protective services, when they tell you how to protect your border. it's a disgrace. i know that chief justice roberts, john roberts, has been speaking a little bit about it. i think we have a lot of respect for him. i like him. i respect him. but i think we have to use some common sense. the 9th circuit, everybody knows it's totally out of control. >> for someone who claims to love the military so much, trump has spent the last two weeks skipping a world war i commemoration in france due to rain. not visiting arlington cemetery on the monday after veterans day because he was extremely busy, even though his public schedule showed nothing on his calendar.

insulting the navy s.e.a.l. who led the raid that killed osama bin laden. joining me now is malcolm nance and jennifer rubin and will fisher. thank you all for being here. will, donald trump, that call was so strange. he talked about himself going to wharton. he talked about all sorts of extraneous things about the economy. he said he's letting the troops win. they weren't ever winning before. now he's letting them win. it was bizarre. i read the transcript before i listened to the clips. either way it's bizarre. how do you feel members of the military received that particular message? >> i think the word best to describe it is unfit. donald trump that was just a display of his inability to serve as commander in chief. does he have the ability to act as a huxter in chief of a racist

in chief? yes, he does. but he cannot fulfill his role as commander in chief. people in the military notice that. that's why support among the active military is eroding on a daily basis. >> traditionally the military is generally leaning more towards the republican party. there's been lots of past presidents who didn't serve, and had controversy about not serving, whether it's bill clinton not going to vietnam. not many presidents have been war heroes, but a lot didn't serve. but this president styled himself as especially close to the military. especially good for the military, even though he had five deferments in vietnam. even though he didn't go -- apparently according to the "washington post," a former white house official cited the reason he had not visited troops in combat zones, which president

obama did, president bush did, he was never interested in going according to this official. he's afraid of those situations. he's afraid people might want to kill him. will, a president that's traveling has the best security on earth. but he's afraid to go. >> joy, donald trump has been avoiding combat zones since the mid 1960s. this recent attack leveled against the military by the president is just a continuation of a theme that we've seen going back in the campaign. whether it's donald trump comparing his s.e.e eshgsex lif '80s like going to vietnam, or managing golf and shrimp cocktail. at the end of the day, donald trump used the military as nothing more than political props to try and advance his own

racist nativist backwards agenda. >> malcolm, donald trump tried to explain why he didn't go to arlington cemetery as presidents always do around veterans day. here is he on fox news sunday explaining not going. >> you're back in washington on monday. veterans day. why don't you go across the river to arlington for that ceremony. president obama went every year he was here in d.c. >> i should have done that. i was extremely busy on calls for the country. we did a lot of calling, as you know. this is veterans day. >> i probably, you know, in retrospect i should have. i did last year. i will virtually every year. but we had come in very late at night. and i had just left literally the american cemetery in paris and i really probably assumed that was fine. i was extremely busy because of affairs of state, doing other

things. >> why -- >> i would have done it. >> malcolm, he was not extremely busy. can we put up his public schedule? on veterans day? there it is. nothing. nothing on his public schedule. it's highlighted there. he's extremely busy. troops don't get to say i thought it was enough that we did some combat yesterday. this is really odd. >> it's not odd. let's just call it what it is. donald trump it a physical coward. he dodged the draft five times. no one in his family served. every male in my family since the civil war has served. let me tell you something, he is frightened of facing the situation that it will be made clear if he goes to these military cemeteries, if he goes to these memorial ceremonies other than giving out the medal of honor ones because they come to the white house, that he will be reminded of his own cowardice. there's nothing more.

he is a disgrace. he's not commander in chief, he's place holder in chief. i have relatives who have dead comrades in paris. donald trump wouldn't even dane to go to one because he was afraid of the rain. so for him to back out of going to arlington -- let me give him directions. go past the world war ii memorial, turn right, drive straight. that's all it takes for him to do it. he does not want to be reminded of the fact that he's incapable of being brave an serving his nation. he is exploiting the nation. that's all he cares about. >> jennifer, in addition to that, he also seems open about criticizing members of the military. people who are incredibly brave and galant, but he doesn't see that galantry. he criticizes mens much braver than this. he criticized admiral mcraven,

the man who was the author of the bin laden raid, he took down the person who was the author of 9/11. here he is going after mcraven who also, i believe, is in treatment for cancer. let's listen to admiral mcraven. >> bill mcraven, retired admiral, navy s.e.a.l., 37 years, former head of u.s. special operations -- >> hillary clinton fan. excuse me, hillary clinton fan. >> who led the operations, commanded the operations that took down saddam hussein and killed osama bin laden says that your sentiment is the greatest threat to democracy in his lifetime. >> he's a hillary clinton backer and an obama backer. and frankly -- >> he was a navy s.e.a.l. >> wouldn't it be nice if we got osama bin laden a lot sooner than that? living -- think of this living in pakistan, beautifully in pakistan in what i guess they considered a nice mansion. i don't know i've seen nicer.

>> jennifer -- >> disgraceful. >> what was that? >> oh, my. if he had been around during world war i he would have bad mouthed sergeant york. he has no respect for others. he is not only a physical coward but he's an emotional and mental one. he understands the contrast between these great people and himself. he has such a frail ego. such a thin skin that all he can see for mcraven is not hero. not bin laden leader. all he can see is hillary clinton supporter. because it's all about him. it's always about him. so anyone who has slighted him, whether it was criticism from former cia director and former dni directors, whether it was people in the military, they are simply other critics, they're bad people. they're people who support his

enemies. and it's all about him. a commander in chief by definition has to be selfless. he has to put himself behind the troops. donald trump wants to be ahead of the troops literally and figuratively. remember, he wanted his parade, too, but couldn't get that. that's what he thinks of the military. like his toy soldiers. remember how he refers to sometimes my generals. we don't have my generals in this country. they are the united states generals. they are the peoples generals. but donald trump thinks of these as litt tle people who dress upn uniform and who he can order around. he knows nothing about the correct way to run aircraft carriers and he's completely ignorant. but he likes to show off. he likes to show them who is boss. he gets these ideas into his head probably from watching fox news, and he tells them what to

do. my fear is that general mattis will leave at some point, and there will be a defense secretary who is less resistant to him than general mattis is, and that we will be doing some really dangerous, really bad things. >> yeah. the my generals thing turned into the generals when he was blaming the generals for raiding yemen that cost one troop their life. he thinks nothing of spending our troops to the border for a political stunt. it's an interesting contrast. thank you very much. coming up in hour two, the mississippi united states senate runoff and the modern day return of retail racist politics. small business saturday, let's all get up, get out and shop small. i got croissant. shopping small, a small way to make a big difference.

asking a foreign government, russia, china, anybody, to interfere and hack into a system of anybody's in this country -- >> it is to the president. let the president talk to them. >> does that not give you pause. >> it gives me no pause. >> malcolm, your response? >> i'm stunned. i'm literally gone smacked. >> now because irony is dead,

"the washington post" reports that the president's daughter ivanka is guilty of using a private e-mail for government business. back with me to discuss. if he is still as gob smacked, you are a little grayer since that two years have gone by but are you still gobsmacked. they're using private e-mails. your thoughts? >> well, no, i'm not gob smacked any more. this was overdue. and to tell you the truth, i explained it a few years ago that the trump administration, when they came into power, they carried out abuses that would normally just topple any president even one like using private e-mails because they have a master's of the universe attitude. once they took power, they thought that power was absolute like a king. and so now he is running into

the guard rails of democracy and finding there is accountability. but ivanka's e-mails has the same risk that they carried out -- i don't know how many different investigations for with hillary clinton. she's never handled classified information but she has the highest security clearance, almost equal to the president, and there are people in this world right now who are tearing up the internet trying to find her e-mails to see if she disclosed classified information. also there are people out there who will want to know whether she was enriching herself while doing that on government business. she's a u.s. government employee, she needs to be prepared for the consequences. >> and even trey gowdy is curious about this. he's on the way out, too, so we'll see how that plays out. malcolm nance, thank you very much. have a good weekend. >> you too. >> more "am joy" after the break. to sign up for new insurance instead?

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you know, for anyone that was offended by my comments, i certainly apologize. there was to ill will, no intent whatsoever in my statements. >> i don't know what is in your heart but we all know what came out of your mouth. this has given our state another black eye that we don't need. its rejuvenated stereotypes we don't need any more. >> it is hard to find a state

more red than mississippi but democrats are hoping to pull off a major upset on tuesday in the runoff for the u.s. senate seat between cindy hyde smith and former agricultural secretary mike espy. the backlash over the comment that she would sit with the supporter in the front row of a public hanging talked about lynching that targeted black people and she has a pride in the confederacy including a picture of her posing with a confederate cap and rifle in a state that is 38% black and has the chance to elect the first black senator from reconstruction. hyde-smith is royaling mississippi and making her political allies uncomfortable but she's about to get a major assist for someone known for exploiting racial anxiety when trump campaigns for her on monday. >> cindy hyde smith is a

spectacular woman and a great senator and she came in and did a fantastic job in a short period of time. she made a statement which i know that she feels very badly about it, and it was just sort of said in jest as she said and she's a tremendous woman and it's a shame that she has to go through this. >> joining me now, bishop william barber and jean st. pair and evan seigfried. and let's learn more about cindy hyde smith. she also was starting her second year as a mississippi state senator and she arrived at the state capitol in jackson in 2001 to file her earliest pieces of legislation which is senate bill 2604 and she proposed it would have renamed a stretch of the highway to the title it had been in the 1930s. jefferson davis memorial highway. the bill died in committee. here is mike espy's ad in which

he is responding to all of this confluence of information about cindy hyde smith including joking about denying the people the right to vote and thinking that was funny. take a listen. >> how embarrassing is cindy hyde smith. walmart said her recent comments clearly do not reflect the values of our company. now at&t, union pacific and other fortune 500 companies, company after company has rejected her divisive words. we've worked hard to over come the stereo types that hurt our economy and cost us jobs. her words should not reflect mississippi's values either. cindy hyde smith so embarrassing she'd be a disaster for mississippi. >> i'm mike espy and i approve this message. >> you were recently in mississippi, bishop barber, are the concerns expressed about cindy hyde smith more about the image she's presenting of the state with her sort of love of the confederacy and joking about lynching or about the economic of a chance -- that her stances could hurt mississippi

economically. >> cindy hyde-smith, what she's doing is throwing racial code words and they are deliberate and they are not just something that happens. too often the policy she pushed. but what people are also looking at is if you have 52% of mississippi that are poor. that is 1.5 million people. that is 816,000 women, that is 843,000 people of color and 668,000 white people that are poor. what she hasn't apologized for is that she jokes about hanging, she jokes about the other things, but she simply wants to give more tax cuts to the wealthy. that won't help poor mississippi. she doesn't want to raise the minimum wage and that won't happen in mississippi and she doesn't want to address poverty, she wants to support trump. there are over 300,000 people without health care and she wants to take the -- end the

affordable care act. so you have to understand that the racist comments that she's making is also connected to a very disturbing and regressive public policy of agenda that will hurt white and black and latino poor people and that is what people are focusing on. not just her statements but also the policies that she will promote that will hurt the least of these in mississippi and that is the decision that mississippians have to make. do you want somebody who jokes about or claims to joke about raiseism and takes pictures with confederate people and pushing policies to hurt the 1.2 million poor people in mississippi of all race, color and creed and differences. >> and evan i believe is the state with the highest rate of poverty in the united states and one of the education systems that is really struggling. but it is also a state where people consistently do vote for the politics of more -- like cindy hyde smith. but to the detriment of the economy, you've already had pfizer, at&t to that ads point

and walmart pulling support from hyde-smith and it was news that they had given her money in the first place but they had. here is the way she defended herself in the one and only debate before an organization partisan to her after sort of apologizing for the hanging remark. >> i also recognize that this comment was twisted and it was turned into a weapon to be used against me. a political weapon used for nothing but personal and political gain by my opponent, that is the type of politics mississippians are sick and tired of. >> so evan, there are two things balanced against each other. on the one hand that the argument that mike espy is making that having this image historically is bad for mississippi and corporations don't want to locate here if that is what think we are. the argument that cindy hyde smith is making is the argument that alt right makes, you can't say racism because you are using it as a political weapon and what she's telling white

mississippians is stick with me because this is -- the use of talking about lynching and racism is a way to hurt you. that actually kind of works in our politics nowadays. >> first thing, with that apology, there are two things. one, she was reading the apology if you notice. and whenever you are reading an apology, no matter who you are, it is not as genuine and it lull lullsy -- it actually is really hard. and number two, this being used as a political weapon and these ignorant or stupid because she's not aware of the lynching of mississippi and the south -- >> is she oblivious to us or is this a wink and nod way -- we've just seen two southern campaigns run on the idea and underlying the tone were pretty racial dog whistles and open in states considered more progressive than mississippi, georgia and florida, and it worked. >> well, listen, i don't know if she was doing it intentionally. i can't claim to. but i think it was wrong to say it in the first place.

it was absolutely wrong and furthers the gulf between republicans and african-americans. we lost african-americans by 81 points and we deserve to. every time we have an opportunity to do outreach to the african-american community, we blow it and walk away. ferlando castile owned a gun -- and then two weeks ago. same with the nra and republicans, robberson in chicago who is a hero in subduing an armed man and licensed to carry, chicago police killed him. we were silent. nfl protest, we mock the nfl players as sons of bitches and don't talk about the root cause of what is going on is we do deserve that and i think cindy hyde smith will ultimately win but i'm disgusted by what is going on because not only is it making a mockery of the republican party but it is morally wrong. >> but it is working. i think that the challenge is -- if you look at the percentage of african-americans by state. mississippi is at the top. only district of columbia, so as far as states it is the most

african-americans and only the district of columbia and virgin islands have more by percentage but a combination of voter suppression and white racial anxiety is effective for republicans. >> mississippi didn't ratify the 13th amendment until 2013. so that tells about what is going on there. but it is also -- cindy hyde-smith will need massive african-american turnout as well as north jackson, upper class whites to vote for mike espy in order to lose. it is a demographic problem. yes there are other combinations factoring in here, but i think that mississippi is behind where other states are on race relations and we need to move forward and quickly. >> john pierre, let me bring you in. here is cindy hyde smith speaking about the definitive turning point for her in this case and it is trump and here she is promoting his visit. this is cut six. >> i also recognize that this comment was twisted and it was

turned into a weapon to be used against me. a political weapon used for nothing but personal -- >> thank you for watching and listening to this debate tonight and thank you farm bureau for putting this debate on. there are two other big events coming up next week. on monday night, the night before the election on november the 26th, the president of the united states is coming to mississippi to campaign on my behalf. i encourage you right now to go online at donaldjtrump and get those free tickets. >> he has a 60% approval rating in mississippi and struggling to get out of the 40s nationwide. i'll ask the same question i ask evan, we know the facts but why would the strategy of lashing to donald trump and doubling down on saying you can't call out my comments because you're trying to use it as personal destruction, why wouldn't that work? >> it is working. for her in mer mind it is going

to. let's not forget, on election night mississippi was supposed to be in the bag for republicans. they were supposed to win that senate race. we were not supposed to be in a runoff. so what is happening now is because there is a runoff with mike epsy, is that she is doubling down on being trumpan and doubling down on the hateful rhetoric because we're not supposed to have a runoff on tuesday and that is what is happening. look, trump has made race as the epicenter of national politics. he divides us every day on race and now she's taking that on and he's coming on monday and she is a wink and a nod. she knew exactly what she was saying when she talked about public hangings. she knew what it meant and was talking to that base, that 60%, that donald trump base and telling them this is still the old south and don't worry about it. i got you. >> i see. this is still the mississippi where lynching was a hotbed for

the klan and lynching with record number in mississippi than any other state. so that is what is happening. this is not supposed to be a runoff and now she's doubling down on the racism. >> and so having been there, bishop barber, and when you are talking to white mississippians as you said, there are issues of poverty that don't get discussed. it all seems to stay on the level of talking about the confederacy and rallying around the confederate flag and of that false history of which side was the aggressor in the civil war and whether slavery -- it was about slavery by the way. that is where it stays. and then donald trump comes down and he will do what trump does and so how do we break out of the conversation and have the conversation you are trying to have about black and white struggling mississippians struggling to get out of poverty. >> we have three major events with black and white and latino people and people said it couldn't happen but it can. we, the media and otherwise, have to recognize the south is changing. what we saw in florida, georgia,

texas and now mississippi are the birth pains of kind of a third political reconstruction. so we'll have to start looking at things different. and we have to recognize the shrewdness of trump and cindy hyde-smith. she threw that comment out, even if she was joking she knew what she was doing to change the conversation because she doesn't want black and white mississippians who are poor and low wealth to understand where she stands on living wages and where she stands on poverty and where she stands on health care. because she knows at that level they lose. will is a history also in the south of black and white people coming together and we can't forget that and every time that is the potential to happen, this is what happens. so we can't get distracted. these states are not just rich, they are voter suppression and divided states. the last senator in the midterm republican got elected by 125,000 votes. 600,000 african-americans didn't vote. over a million -- almost a

million white people did not vote in that election. we have to stop saying these are pure red states. these are voter suppression and divided states and what we need -- the democrats need to put their big hitters in there. they need to stop walking away from these southern states. they need to have a major people going in there on sunday and monday. we need the spirit of gilbert mason, he was a doctor in biloxi that long before the civil rights movement he formed what is called the wade ins and he dared to challenge what was going on in mississippi and he led the changing of mississippi. we need that spirit to rise up again and black and white people and clergy people of all different races and colors and creeds. we can change the southern states but we can't just change them getting focused on the wrong thing. her comment was egregious but she wanted us focused there and not talking about that she will be the worst candidate for poor and low income people regardless of who you are and if you black and poor and white and poor and brown and poor and can't pay your light bill because you're

poor, guess what? we all black in the dark so we better stand together in the light. that is what we have to happen across this country. >> and evan, it is interesting because you do a lot of the data and follow the data on younger voters and all of this hope that younger voters will change the trajectory of southern states but i wonder if they are that different in terms of issues and whether or not these sort of dog whistles work on young white voters and with four in ten mississippians having so many african-american voters, is it just a mountain too high to cli climb because people are dug in. >> if you are a younger person that has not gone to college you are more likely to vote for hyde smis sm smith and then you are. >> but among younger or millennial african-americans 80% say the republican party doesn't care about people like them and 29% say the democratic party doesn't. so the democratic party is actually there and is a home. the question is not whether or

not you could get motivated to go out. this isn't on midterm election day where we've never seen anything like that turnout. but it is on the tuesday after thanksgiving. what is the motivation? and i don't think there is going to be that very much and i think that is very upsetting. we knew this runoff was coming. all of the polls showed that cindy hyde smith was at 39% or she got 41% and chris espy got 40. >> and he's to the right of her. >> to the right of cindy hyde smith so we knew it would be one of the things and mcdaniel's voters are not going to mike espy. >> and so is move-on getting in there and grassroots organizations going into mississippi. >> yes, grassroots organizations are all in. we're getting in there. you had some big hitters there, senator harris and senator booker went down there to help energize the base. look, this has the same ingredients as alabama and that was on december 12th last year, off-year election. another one where people did not

think it would happen. didn't have a u.s. senator in that state for 25 years so it has the same ingredients as you've mentioned, joy, 38% and more african-americans than any other state and so what mike epsy needs to do iss energize te base from the dnc and clearly to come in and help him as well. but you got to energize the group, you have to go after african-american women, 98% came out in alabama and you have to do that and give them something to come out to vote for. and it is there. the formula is there and the ingredients are there, we just have to energize the base. >> the formula for democrats is you need 30% of voters. i know you'll be back in the southern states and working hard there. thank you very much. up next, more on why racism is still a winning strategy for republicans in the south.

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he is an articulate spokesperson for the far left views. the last thing we need to do is to monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda. >> i got a big truck. just in case i need to round up criminal illegals and take them home myself. yep, i just said that.

>> yeah, he said that. the new incoming governor of georgia and florida took a page out of trump campaign playbook leading up to the election. kemp and desants is adopted the strategy of racism and fear to turn out the base. is this a sign of things to come? joining me now is jill annia cobb. is this the way it will work now? if in the new south states and florida and georgia, if they are running that way and you had side groups doing racist robocalls and the whole complement and it worked and does that mean there is no more new south, it is just this. >> i think it will be this for the foreseeable future. one of the things prompting this is the demographic changes that people know that these states have increasing black and brown population. >> people are moving from the south -- from the north back down south. >> and the way you get around that is the two kind of prong approach. one, they have doubled down on trying to attract those white voters who feel besieged and

circle the wagons mentality about the changing demo graphs in their state and in the broader sense in the country. and then disenfranchised and you could see the racial appeals that is one part of it. but that is likely to drive black and brown people to the polls, seeing that egregious racism. so you have to get those people out of contention. so i think we're likely to see much more of both of those things. >> we saw after president obama was re-elected with ron brownstein got great numbers and got a shellacking with white voter and then still wins with 5 million votes and as soon as shelby happens, states rush in to do what you are talking about. take the black voters off the grid and barring felons for voting because of perths and closing polling places. >> the same day. the same day as the shelby decision came down. you had legislatures going, okay, there it is.

>> and so my question then becomes, we talk about this in the break, is what -- how much pain are southern states and really the other states in certain cases too willing to endure in order to cling to this idea of white supremacy. what are they willing to endure economically. >> the economic question is important. because what mike espy said in mississippi is we can't attract investment in the state and so on. that has historically been the cudgel against racism in the south. in 1906, atlanta riot and people being lynched and atlanta has the business and the city fathers and sit down and say we can't have this. this is bad for our money. so the sense of that city being a forward-looking place and adopting the model that it was a city too busy to hate and james baldwin attached that saying the

city too busy making money to hate. and so you understand that as being important. and an important part of the counter argument against the most egregious forms of racism. and we look at mississippi and we're looking at the campaign that kemp ran in georgia, these are people who are saying we're not thinking about that. the investment that they have and hollywood and films and everything being made in atlanta, we talk to even about the issue with the trans-bathroom bill worried about the naacp. so these sort of things lead big corporate investment interest that have given people a reason to say maybe we don't want to go down this road. the difference in the south is the people who are willing to go down to the last dollar to sacrifice everything to maintain superiority over black people and the people saying i will only sacrifice some of my money to maintain -- >> it is interesting because you have in the south, there is a diliniation between the old south states like mississippi

which struggles might illy, the poor estate in the union and then states like florida and georgia and florida has disney and miami beach and tourism so it balanced out the vibe. it was just as much segregated as any other state but they have to present the new image and then as you said $9.5 billion in annual revenue from film production and tv production in georgia. but then you have this. the new governor of georgia is this guy, a white nationalist who had threatened the stacey abrams campaign poses a picture with the guy now the governor and he, him -- himful committed the wipeout of as many black rolls and now he's the governor. and now ron desantis and starts with monkey it up and now the governor of florida. what does that do to the economy of these two very actually prosper out southern state. >> this is a backward looking approach. even when we talk about this, the white citizen council of the 1950s, one of the things we

saw -- so cindy hyde smith made the comment about lynching. which is a clear reference to lynching and we know in the south one of the counter measures against lynching were white elites who weren't necessarily any less racist, who were simply looking around saying we can't do this and attract investment. we can't do that. we have to have a veneer of civilization here. people seem to have forgotten that message. there are economic consequences for this kind of thing. and so you go and when companies will go we don't want to invest here or worried about what your values are and don't want the bad public relations that comes with this. on the other side of these campaigns, that is what happens. >> do you see a competition between states. you have north carolina which has now turned over and changed -- they have a majority on the supreme court that is on the democratic-leaning side. they are trying to sort of attract the research triangle and be the new south. but if states like georgia and florida are going backwards and

mississippi is potentially going way back wards does that create competition that north carolina tries to stand out and it is the new south. >> sure. that is the difference between the beginning of the 20th century people thought atlanta and birmingham were peer cities and one city figured out how to actually market itself and attract capital and business. another city never did. and while we're on the subject and think being what happened just three years ago in south carolina when they took down the confederate flag, this was done in a somber, horrific moment after the death of nine people at the emanual a&e church but they wanted that flagged down years before. the university of south carolina, which is not far from the legislature, they don't want to bring in potential faculty or potential graduate students and giving them a tour of the campus and then you look and see the confederate flag. the flag of slavery and rebellion against the constitution. >> it is sort of like being shocked that amazon didn't

want -- that it wanted to locate in georgia, which is definitely more -- probably the only -- the new south and then in new york but they don't want to be in states going after birth control or women's bodily autonomy and pitching bathroom bills. why are they shocked when the public schools aren't getting any investment because the southern states don't want taxes meaning the public schools are poor. >> that is right. they fail tods learn from history. there are people when you go back -- it was easy to think of it as an indifferent ated block of the past but when you go back and look at people like henry grady, people who are southern fixtures who have to understand the questions in a much bigger context. >> you are always a great person to talk to about this. thank you very much. up next, the mother of all friday news dumps. , then i need to get into character. ♪ ho ho ho this is christmas, baby ♪ [ groans ] dude, how many candy canes did you eat? [ mumbles ] that's hurtful.

if there is anything we've gotten used to over the past few years it is a friday night news dump and on black friday we found out we're all doomed. this friday 13 federal agencies released a major report that presents stark warnings about the consequences of climate change for the economy, for public health, and the environment. so basically everything. and it points to a specific

environmental event as evidence like crop failures in the midwest and wildfires in california. the findings from the report are directly at odds with donald trump's agenda of environmental deregulation because of course we'll propose that on the time theory to give it a read. i think you should. forewarned is forearmed. when we come back, toddler trump through a tantrum over the correspondents' dinner and he may have just gotten his way.

i actually really like sarah. i think she's very resourceful. like, she burns facts and then she uses that ash to create a perfect smokey eye. like maybe she's born with it. maybe it's lies. it's probably lies. >> after michelle wolf performance last year, donald trump called for the annual ritual for the press to end because celebrities won't be his friends and comedians are mean. in other words he threw a tantrum like a toddler falling out in the supermarket checkout aisle and like that toddler he seems to have gotten his way. the white house correspondents' association announced it has ditched the annual tradition of having a comedian hosting the event and will have a historian doing it again. that should be exciting. joining me now comedians barren

dean. you interviewed olivia knox who is the head of the organization about what feels like capitulation. like trump said celebrities are mean to me, stop having the dinner and it looks like they said okay. so here -- let me just play a little bit and then talk about that. >> today's tweet, the one about maybe i'll attend so spoiler alert, no he won't. he'll do a campaign rally, that is the model that works for him. he doesn't want to risk me sitting him next to ca-- khashoggi's widow. i didn't have a conversation with the white house. i'm at peace if he doesn't attend. this is again at men and women who cover the white house, not the people they are covering. >> so he's trying to present this as not a capitulation to the white house. what do you think. >> that is the coolest thing ever. a clip from my show played on -- >> the convergence. >> this is really exciting. i'll leave. maybe just talk.

i'm not kidding. so it feels great. so in any event, i think he's very sincere at olivia knox but the reality is you don't live in a vacuum because you said i wanted to change this event for years and that is what he told me. in the real world trump tweeted right after michelle wolf's per forman formance put it to right. freedom of expression is so important to our democracy and it first gets eroded, freedom of expression, it is not by law or executive orders, it is self censorship and that is what the white house correspondents look like they are doing. they are self centering and that is trump's dream and so anyone who attacks him and you say is it worth it to tell a joke to power and just sit it and and let things go by and that is trump's dream and they gave it to him. >> and we talked about this in the break and judy, people in

the media attacked michelle wolf, savaged her for her routine which was funny and she was also attacking the press and making some really biting but real points about the press's sort of interdependent relationship with donald trump and she is attacked. you have the gleeful dancing because her netflix thing got canceled but she must be punished for telling jokes but the white house correspondents' dinner must be changed because trump's feelings were hurt. >> absolutely. he's a coward. you have to have a sense of self awareness in order to get a joke. you have to have some sort of intelligence to understand the intent of a joke which he does not have. he cannot make fun of himself. he cannot be the butt of a joke. when you have control over your emotions, you can laugh at yourself. and he has zero control over his emotions. and how dare a woman -- a woman say these horrible things about him. they are jokes. you have to -- people who cannot laugh at themselves are -- a--

arrested development and the fact he can be on saturday night live and be the most unfunny guest ever -- ever on that show. it is an honor to be roasted. that is -- that is the greatest -- if someone made fun of me on "saturday night live," i would be like, i made it. and no, not him. and yet he will -- he will use derogatory terms against women and treat journalists like the lowest form of low. he cannot deal with the power that a comedian has owning a room, making people laugh, eliciting a response. the comedian is the power in that room. >> and there is part -- there is a few things. trump doesn't like the fact he can't get celebrities to be around him. only kim kardashian. a few don't like him and that bothers him. so there is that. and he calls the press of the

enemy of the people and so it is arguable that it wouldn't make sense for him to be in the room partying with journalists. >> without him in that room, the biggest joke isn't there. and that is a challenge for the night. and i think -- i lessen to olivia talk about the distance of the dinner and have the comedian there with the president there, that makes sense. when he's not there, you miss the biggest punch lines because he's the joke and you also miss that balance of power. and i kind of -- part of me wants ron chernoff to knock it out of the park. >> this is the comedian -- >> the historian. he gave us hamilton and maybe we'll get correspondents' dinner 2018 and it will sell on broadway because he does have a deep understanding of the role of the press in our democracy and the first amendment and we're at a time when that is all challenged. it is a good thing and it is a disand does look to remind us of

who we are and where we come from. >> and so the dinner makes journalists uncomfortable and i told you, even if i -- i felt uncomfortable and i was there the year baltimore happened and there is a big news thing happening outside of the room and the journalists and celebrities are there with the sources and the political people and there is something about it that journalists felt uncomfortable about any way. so is it a good thing that maybe it changed just in the big picture? >> to me, that is a different conversation, frankly. to me it is about trump and olivier told me this on the show, he didn't know until my article in the daily beast, trump's history of attacking comedians and it made be pause. i don't think he'll change his views. i said, look, have ron speak first about the first amendment and then show the first amendment in action with a comedian attacking everyone. not just trump. but trump sued bill maher for $5 million over a joke calling him the spawn of a orangutan and then jon stewart said i think

he's trying to tell everyone i'm a jew. as a gop nominee he called for "saturday night live" to be canceled because of the jokes. this is a man waged a war on comedy because he hates criticism but it is the power of comedy. people are laughing at you and authoritarian leaders want you to be afraid of them and not laugh at them. >> he has a beef against the dinner. it was the 2011 white house correspondents dinner where a funny comedian, named barack obama, who is funny and good at delivering the jokes, made a joke out of trump and omarosa said that is why he ran, to make everyone bow down to him. >> when someone makes fun of you and you could laugh at you, that is disarming and he doesn't know how to disarm. he doesn't want to disarm. >> he knows how to escalate and overreach and go well beyond what is necessary. so a disproportionate response is his normal response.

>> i feel like art, whether it is comedy, whether it is visual arts have been really -- they step up to the moment. in a way that we kind of hoped -- we would do more and comedy has really responded to trump. your industry has done that. >> if we step back from this night, look at the comedy out there. the late night show and the cable show and the youtube. it is not like we have a shortage of sharp political comedic opinions out there. and other artists are doing it. hank willis thomas picked up on the four freedoms concept and touring the country, 50 states, billboards and inviting and reminding of us who we are as people through art. look at the screen -- >> jim carrey. >> and look at the show centering queer people and black people and women that we haven't seen and even as we feel divided we've seeing each other more because of art. >> is the answer for michelle wolf to do a counter event to

the white house correspondents' dinner. >> samantha bee did one last year. >> the white house correspondents dinner have made it clear pushing back on trump's attack on free speech and the free press, i think you could step up and you could have a comedian with churnoff. >> and talk about what they are meant to be there for, which is the first amendment. >> and i work cheap. i'm free. i'll work for free. i'll work for dinner -- >> a nice gig for a comedian. >> i feel like everybody has a netflix show. >> it is an honor but it is hell. >> dean is willing to do it. >> for an appetizer. >> he's willing to work for food. what more do you want? thank you very much. and you could pre-order julie's new new album "kill me now". and before the break, i want to wish happy birthday to

lillian gregory who along with her late husband dick gregory worked tirelessly to promote racial equality while raising ten children. a tribute will be held in washington, d.c. on monday as she marked the 81st birthday. so here is to 81 years and many more. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪

the late dr. martin luther king once said, and i quote -- we must discover the power of love. the redemptive power of love. and when we do that, we will make of this old world a new world. many of us were first introduced to the bishop michael curry back in may, when he gave a sermon at the royal wedding of prince harry and meghan markle, but of course he's been preaching about unity and love for a very long time. in his new book "the power of love" he includes his most powerful sermons. he is the presiding bishop of the episcopal church and the

author. you have your book here, bishop. i'm reading it. you have sort of the love bishop. you gave this incredible, incredible seruming at the royal wedding. you talked in the introto the book about not expecting that invitation, how it came about, and what you thought you were channeling. talk a by about that. >> yeah, the truth was i was the messenger, but the message ultimately has its source in god. the truth is i didn't say anything new. what i said was quoting jesus of nazareth, who spoke about love over and over and over again 2,000 years ago. when jesus was talking about the power of love, he was quoting moses from deuteronomy and leviticus. this is an old message, which is a way of suggesting that this

message has ancient wisdom in it. love has been tested, love works, love it tried-and-true. it's been beta tested. we just have to do it. >> it's becoming increasingly different. we are a polarized country. you write, love your democratic neighbor, love your republican neighbor, love your independent neighbor, love your neighbor who doesn't like you. that's incredibly heart at this moment. >> it's extremely difficult, but one of the things i realized. i'm 65 now, it's taken me a while to get it, but i have often thought hate was opposite of love, but the real opposite of love is selfishness. so the way to overcome selfishness is get over myself and pay attention to the needs of other folks.

when i'm selfless, i will discover my true self. so it may be harder to do, but it has a bigger payoff than just paying attention to myself. >> those of us who grew up in the church heard this consistent message that the core principles of the christian faith were to take care of the poor, the immigrant, the shut-in, elderly. that's what you're supposed to. on the part of the immigrant, you write -- we also come back we don't believe that a great nation separates children from their families. we come back president abraham linging was dedicated to the proposition that all people are created equal. a lot of people can't reconcile the fact that people who call themselves christian affirm the child and family separations, and throwing immigrants out of this country, and even supporting a president who hopefully divides us. how do those things work?

>> dr. king said a long time, only light can cast out darkness. hate cannot cast out hate. only love can do that. the way to counter the negative is with the move. the more people who live for the positive, for the way of love, for the way of compassion, for the way of decency, the more people who -- people of goodwill, who speak up, that will become a thundering chorus that eventually ground out choruses of hatred and bigotry, but it's necessary. one person said the only thing that allows evil to thrive, is for people not to speak up. thank you very much for writing the book and your service and all that you do. thank you. >> thank you, joy. natalie became mrs. natalie lottie. the "a.m. joy" team was

fortunate to attend their wedding. we wish them all the love. more "a.m. joy" after the break. you think back to your draft. it felt like a fantasy. but the second you know you can't compete anymore, you owe it to yourself, to your team, to find a fresh start. so, yeah, that's why i did it. that's why i walked away... from my fantasy league. (announcer) redeem your season on fanduel. play free until you win. fanduel. more ways to win.

that's our show for today. more tomorrow. next up, alex witt has the latest. >> that bride was gorgeous. >> fireworks. >> they had fireworks? >> they had a cake room. it was amazing.

it means you had fun last night. good for you. >> bye. it is high noon just about here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. a subpoena battle, what house republicans hope to gain from the former fbi director and former attorney general to testify about the clinton e-mails. >> this is something that should have been done a while ago. >> it seems like this matter has been closed. >> any sort of legal delay will inevitably wrap this up in court and wind down the clock. plus robert mueller now has written answers from the president, but the two sides could still battle over one big remaining issue. and the federal government releases a warning about climate change. at odds with the policy of president trump. this hour, who in washington is listening.