regulation. any time i say something that somebody got offended, i want to apologize. >> could you acknowledge your statement? >> yeah. i apologize for anything i could have possibly said. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." the 2018 midterms have been a case study in the ways that race still plays a central role in american life and in our politics, particularly in the strategies deployed by this particular president and his party to gin up their base. the latest case study mississippi. the final u.s. senate race of the midterm cycle where on tuesday, appointed republican senator sydney hyde-smith will face-off against mike espy. she is still having trouble explaining her controversial quip about attending a public hanging. the new details about her past could further evoke images of

mississippi's ugly racial history. the jackson free press reports that she graduated from a so-called segregation academy, schools set up throughout the south so white parents could avoid having to send their children to school with black students after the supreme court mandated desegregation. hyde-smith also sent her daughter to that academy. she is counting on a visit from donald trump to get her across the finish line. >> i want to be that senator that you are very proud that you supported that can carry those conservative values, that can continue to work like we have been working, to get the things done of the agenda of president trump. you know, i do have the record of voting with him 100% of the time. >> joining me now is msnbc contributor of the washington post, president of the bernard center for women, politics and

public policy, the washington post and founder and managing editor of the beat d.c. thank you all for joining me this morning. tiffany, i will start with you as a daughter from the south, originally from georgia to get your reaction from hyde-smith's comment. in their latest attempt, she says, to help mike espy, the gotcha liberal media has taken leave of their senses. they have stooped to a new low attacking her entire family and trying to destroy her personally ahead of focussing on the clear differences on the issues between cindy hyde-smith. this is based in jackson, mississippi that discovered this information. what do you make of this response from the hyde-smith

campaign? >> i think she has to be careful. there is a huge amount of mississippi who feel like, yes, i understand this woman. she speaks for me. when you look at the election cycle that we just got off of, desantis said outright racist things. these were racial overtones. when you look at the voter suppression efforts accompanied by brian kemp's remarks in georgia, i think what the republican electorate, particularly of the south learned from that is these tactics work, so let us double down. we don't have to debate whether she meant these things. i think these are just as evidenced and factually based things that we see. but the fact that they are doubling down on inviting trump. they inviting somebody who will echo their same thugts and have two ral lies will it be a sea full of hats echoing these same

things. this is a highlight about how the divide exists in the south, particularly in mississippi where the black electorate comprises 30% of the state. this is a state that should be winnable for a candidate like mike espy, who is a moderate. so i think they will have a lot of trouble, both of them, because mike espy has walked the middle of the road in this issue, too. he has not come koout and calle her a racist. she's been careful in his response. and she has not come out and apologized for her words. she apologized if they offended anybody, which is a huge difference. they are both trying to walk the middle of the road. i think some of that electorate will want both of them to punch harder. >> let's play what mike espy has done in response. this is a campaign ad that the espy campaign released. it is interesting your focus of it. it is that she is embarrassing to the state of mississippi.

take a listen. >> how embarrassing is hyde-smith? hyde-smith's remarks do not reflect the value of our company. now other fortune 500 companies, company after company has rejected her divisive words. we have worked hard to overcome the stereotypes that hurt our economy and cost us jobs. her words should not reflect mississippi's values either. >> i'm mike espy, and i approve this message. >> i want to go to you on this because in one of your great books you wrote, you talk about the barry goldwater moment and how definitive that was for republicans in the sense that it defined them for african-americans and really sent african-americans fleeing from the party. but it also taught the party of limits how far you could go on issues of race, that coming down dead set against the civil

rights act. now you have hyde-smith who is follows races in georgia and florida where racist dog whistles worked. like they were helpful. so i wonder if the republican party takes away from this midterm election cycle that, yes, there are suburban women that don't want anything to do with the republican party. but in a sense, at least in these parts of the south, you can win this way. >> i'm afraid that's exactly right. i mean, if you look at the goldwater race, mississippi swung hardest to the republicans. goldwater won overwhelmingly because he opposed the civil rights act. remember back then it was before the votes rights act, so it was a white electorate. i would like to say mike espy could win this race and say look at what happened with doug jones and maybe he could pull off something like that. the problem is mississippi voting is more racially polarized, meaning white people

in mississippi are more averse to voting democratic than almost anywhere else. barack obama got 39% of the white note nationwide. he got 15% of the white vote in alabama. he only got 10% in mississippi. so he has a big hill to climb, and i think it's true that for some voters cindy hyde-smith doubling down on where she stands on race is going to help her. one possible path for mike espy is younger voters. three-fifths of the voters under 45 voted for doug jones. if there were a huge turnout of young people, african-american and white, mike espy might have a chance. but i worry that the same old -- it is not even a dog whistle anymore. the bullhorn may work again in mississippi. >> michelle, in that doug jones race against judge moore, you know, moore still got 66% of the votes of white women.

this is despite the fact he was accused of allegedly being a predator who preyed on young girls. go on. >> and the claims were, you know, absolutely credible at that. and in mississippi, cindy hyde-smith has not been accused of sexual impropriety, which i would imagine would mississippi voters would find that more alarming as being an outright racist. one of the problems that mike espy faces is similar to barack obama. he cannot appear to be the angry blackman because, if he does, that is going to turn off white voters that might consider voting for him. the only path to victory for him is in an enormous voter turnout of african-americans, latinos in the state of mississippi, you know, in that district in the state of mississippi, young

voters and white women who are willing to look at what their current senate says and what she stands for and think to themselves that this is not gone with the wind. that era is gone and we'll look at the economics. that's similar to what we spoke about a few weeks ago with at&t pulling out, walmart pulling out. what will their state look like if they elect this woman as their senator. >> this is some voters. we went down to mississippi doing some reporting. and he spoke with come voters to get their take on what hyde-smith, the image she's putting forth of mississippi, whether that impacts their votes. take a listen. >> democrats haven't faired too well in mississippi in the last 30 years. what makes 2018 different? >> i feel now there is more educated voters. there are more people willing to seek and evoke change. and i think that's the difference now in 2018 than 30 years now. now we have people that are

willing to have their voices heard. >> reporter: when you saw those clips that same out from cindy hyde-smith, what did you think of those? >> very poor choice of words. not good. >> reporter: how do you reconcile that? >> that's the tough part because i certainly wouldn't condone those statements under any circumstances. i don't know. hard to do that. >> reporter: but you'll vote for her? >> i will. >> she's vote for her still, jonathan. racism is not a deal breaker for a lot of voters. >> yeah. no. this is as much a cultural vote as it is a political vote. mississippi, to e.j.'s point, is a fortres. it is a fortres of conservativism and republicanism. it unfortunately is a fortres of racism. sure, hyde-smith is running a campaign not unlike president trump's in that she's not

backing down off of anything that is reported that, you know, she has said in the past, done in the past, done in the most recent past. she's not apologizing. and i think that, you know, mike espy is doing the best that he can with the circumstances that he has, and the ad that you showed, it is notable that he didn't -- the voiceover never uttered the words that she is -- that she has heard on tape saying. they printed it on the screen. and the argument that's made is an economic argument. he's making the argument that, you know, this person is going to enhance, bolster the r reputation of mississippi of backwardsness. and the other thing that no one else has mentioned, but i want to put on the table, is that play in the alabama senate race as well, is that outsiders coming into mississippi telling

mississippi how they think they should vote is something that could hurt mike espy. i think what he's trying to do is walk this very fine line of trying to con vens not only that african-american man in his piece to vote for him but also convince those two white women to give him a look, to vote for him. but as we saw in that clip that you just showed, joy, that is going to be very, very difficult, even though those women, or at least the one woman said she had a problem with the way hyde-smith said what she did. she is still going to vote for her because of the things i said in the beginning of my comment. >> you said that racism is not a deal breaker. i would say the state of mississippi is a deal maker. there are a lot of working class people which i know means white people. they will be devastatingly impacted by trump's economic policies who will bypass that point and choose to vote for the

person who thinks like they do, who echo their thoughts. so i think mike espy will have a really challenging time. i'm not saying it is impossible. but i'm saying it is a challenging time to get elected in a state where you heard this woman say she's still going to vote for her in a state trump carried by 18 points. >> i will come to you on this economic piece. you think that when people look in their pocketbooks, you just said major league baseball voted $5 million to hyde-smith after the comments about hanging. she's gotten plenty of money pouring in from others. i wonder if states like this think about the economic portion of it because there is a reason mississippi doesn't get the kind of investment that previously states like georgia would get because it is seen as more forward meaning. does this help mississippi attract more business, attract more people to live here and

send their kids to school here if the image is still old, deep, red south? >> one of the things that we have seen and that i have read about is that, for example, another difference between alabama and what we saw with roy moore and doug jones in alabama versus smississippi is you have fewer college educated whites. the reality of what president trump says he is doing for the country versus the reality of what the actual impact is on the working class in the state of mississippi. corporations may be looking at it because they're thinking about who shops there, who buys there and they don't want to lose clout with certain demographics. but the working class white man and woman in mississippi, it doesn't appear they are looking that way. >> they swung democratic in pennsylvania, in michigan and in

wisconsin. in mississippi, the vote is entirely racially polarized. when barack obama can only get 10%, that tells you something. >> that's what people are voting on. everybody stick around because up next it's the parlor game you're playing at home. everyone is doing it. democrats are starting to see 2020.

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people say, well, you know, we can't have another candidate of color. we can't have a woman because -- >> well, that kind of stuff i don't buy. the idea that there is some demographic or profile of a particular candidate that is the optimal one or the idea one, that's just now how i've seen politics work. i think people respond to candidates who speak to the moment. >> yes, that's right. 2020 has already begun. and behold, some 32-odd people who may or may not be running. some of whom have already made the traditional visits to iowa and new hampshire. four of them this morning are getting a head start. if you missed it, it sounded

like this. e.j., jonathan and tiffany are back with me. i'm going to go to jonathan first. this is a lot of people. there has to be a way to whittle this down. we have asked all of you guys to give us your top tier. give me your top five out of this list. >> okay. senator harris of california. the former governor of virginia, terry mcauliffe is my top five if former vice president joe biden doesn't get into the race, he would be the third one on my list. new orleans mayor mitch landru is on my list. he speaks in a way that i think would resonate with the democratic party, certainly with african-americans when he talks about race and criminal justice

issues. the question is whether he can branch out and talk about wider issues, assuming he gets into the race. and then the fifth person is whatever dark horse emerges who we're not talking about right now or who we are not giving much credence right now. this is the democratic party way. the person who ends up being the nominee and eventually goes on to win is the person we weren't talking about at this stage in the campaign. at this stage in '92, we weren't talking about bill clinton. in 2007/2008, barack obama was a rock star because of the speech he gave at the democratic convention in 2004 and had gotten elected to the senate, but running for president? no one thought about it. the person that was supposed to be the nominee then, was assumed to be the nominee then was former first lady hillary clinton. so i don't think we really know who the democratic nominee is

going to be yet. >> i got to give you some push back on this because, a, yes people already knew that barack obama was a rock star who would be running for president in 2004. he was seen as somebody who probably has a glide path to the presidency at some point. it shocked the clintons. >> but not for 2008. >> i don't know, my friend. okay. let me ask you another question before i move on to the rest of my panel. if you are giving me a top five, you got to tell me which of the first four primaries. you have to win two of the first four. in order to become the nominee, you've got iowa, knew hampshine nevada and south cakacarolina. >> terry could win. >> are you kidding? >> yes. >> based on? >> former governor of virginia. the virginia governor ship is only one term. but you ask democrats and

republicans in the commonwealth of virginia, and they give him high marks for, you know, pushing the state into the successful territory it is in right now. so you cannot count him out. but kamela harris, and i also think joe biden could win two of those four. >> let me go to e.j. i'm going to give you a chance to outdo jonathan. give me your five. >> you know, first of all, if you did a graphic about my real view of this race, it would look like a ruth goldburg machine because i have no clue and i don't think anybody else really has a clue. i would look at it this way -- by the way, there are two kinds of races. i think in '08 there was a lot of passion for barack obama and hillary clinton. in '04, we didn't really whittle this down until a week before iowa when what looked like a howard dean race became a kerry

edwards race. so i think people who use this year well on the whole, supporting other candidates, kamela harris, elizabeth warren. i would also add corey booker. i think sharon brown is getting a real look because he did so well in ohio, a state that looks tough for democrats. he has immensely strengthened if joe biden doesn't run. joe biden can appeal to white working class voters but also has real credibility with african-americans. i toss in chris murphy as a dark horse because i think he's interesting. then i have two other categories. that's why i'm a ruth goldberg machine here. you have to look at a possibility to the pacific northwest. i think the senator of oregon and wisconsin are interesting. and lastly, three mayors. i agree mitch landieu is

interesting. the los angeles mayor. and i hope the mayor of south bend gets into this race because he is one of the most interesting voices in the democratic party. and just the ads teaching people how to pronounce his name would be hilarious. >> i don't know that that's helpful in a presidential race, but okay. let's go to tiffany cross. your list please? >> okay. so i'm going to say elizabeth warren is definitely a player. i think her anti-corporate stances made her a powerhouse. i do have some concerns of the native american dna thing did more harm for her than good. i think it showed that donald trump can bait her. and then there is -- i'm going to agree with e.j. on this. he is openly gay. he's a veteran. he's a mayor.

he's a millennial. we saw how millennials voted in 2018. they voted overwhelmingly. i think the next president will have to appeal to that huge voting electorate and i think he could resonate with these people. i also want to say kamala harris. she has a book coming out in january. she announced she is going to be joining an accompanying children's book. her sister is already working behind the scenes, suring up support. she appears to be the best organized right now. her brother-in-law is tony west, the general counsel for uber. i think he could shore up some of that big tech money. i do think she will have some challenges with the criminal justice stances she took. but i definitely wouldn't count her out. mitch landieu can appeal to that bible belt. he has a way of speaking to the people that resonates with various groups of different people, including the white

working class voter, as well as the black working class voter. i think he is bold enough to talk about race relations in a way that makes people comfortable. here's the big thing. my number one ticket who can beat donald trump by a landslide, michelle obama and oprah winfrey. >> that would never happen sg. >> i know they said they're not running. but black women have saved this country time and again. they saved alabama from an accused pedophile. >> but racially polarized voting is a real thing and people will say they will vote for oprah until she is on the ballot. bote runs or doesn't run? >> i think he thinks about it and then doesn't. >> i think he should.

>> you think he should. tiffany? >> he's going to run. >> biden runs or doesn't run? >> i don't think he has decided yet. >> okay. >> i just don't think he knows yet. >> i think he wants to, but in the end he won't. >> testifyiffany? >> i agree with that. i think he wants to, but i don't think we will. >> i think we're out of time. can i do one more? who win it is south carolina primary? >> kamala harris? >> e.j.? >> i'll go with that. >> harris. >> we have you all on tape. i have win down your answers. you are committed. thank you very much to you e.j., jonathan for sticking around. tiffany, thank you very much, my friend. see you soon. donald trump plays deal or no deal mexico edition.

one good rule of thumb for the president heir is always wait for day two for any pronouncement out of the trump white house. the trump administration had reached an agreement with mexico's newly elected government that would require central america migrants attempting to reach the united

states to remain in mexico while their claims make their way through u.s. courts. it would have broken long-standing asylum rules and made things for dangerous for migrants. that didn't stop trump from tweeting about it. mexican's government denied any such agreement exists. true to form, trump pivoted this morning saying it would be smart if mexico stopped migrants from reaching the border and somehow blaming the dems. you can file this one under trump myth funneled by the media to keep his base thinking he's keeping the brown people away. ahead, pastors arrested trying to protect his flock from ice.

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i'm from the police department. you are in violation, failure to disperse and 14-223, resist, delay and obstruct a public officer. i am here by ordering you to clear the parking lot and streets by accessing the grass to the sides of the parking lot. you have ten minutes to comply with this order. failure to come play may result in your being arrested.

>> shame! shame! shame! >> that was the scene in morrisville, north carolina on friday shortly been members of the clergy were arrested for protesting the detention of undocumented immigrant samwell bruno. he had been taking sanctuary inside a church for nearly a year. his supporters say he was lured with an appointment to discuss deferring his deportation to mexico. but instead he was tackled by ice officers and taken into custody, as were members of the clergy who tried to stop his arrest. >> joining me now is a democratic congressman, pastor and a member arrested on friday. thank you all for being here. i will start with all respect to the congressman, i will start

with ishmal because you were involved in getting him sanctuary in the first place. can you explain why he took sang ware inside a church in your state and why he left? >> yes. good morning, joy. samuel oliver bruno has been ordered to be deported to mexico. on november 1st, congressman david price and myself wrote a letter to the department of homeland security asking them to consider deferred action. that application is pending. they invited him in on friday after thanksgiving to do the buy dwr -- bio metrics. and the moment he entered the premises, he was tackled by ice and taken to the ground. this is another example of ice going to the extremes in their work. this man poses no threat at all to the community. he's been in the united states

for 22 years. he has a sick wife. he has a son preparing to go to college. and this was the epitome of deception to bait him out of his sanctuary into an ice facility so that he could be arrested. shame on ice for doing this. i have talked to the field director of ice, and they have assured me that he will not be deported. but he will be held in a detention center in georgia until his application can be processed. the community supports samuel oliver bruno, as well as those of us in the congressional delegation. >> so congressman, let me stay with you then for a moment. are you saying that he was assured that if he went to this facility that he would be able to begin the process of applying for deferred action and that they say he was lied to? >> yes. this gentleman applied for deferred action. and whenever that happens, there is a routine interview that

takes placeints and photograph the person's signature just so the application can be processed for proper hearing. and the appointment was set the very day after thanksgiving. and, so, mr. bruno along with his pastor and church friends and community went to the facility, along with his son, and as he filled out the paperwork, that's when plainclothes members of the ice team entered the room, tackled the man, took him to the ground, put him in a van and were ready to deport him to mexico. the van was surrounded by the church members who stand in solidarity with him as well as the two of us that represent that area in congress. and we are going to continue to insist that deferred action be granted to this man based on humanitarian reasons and the fact he has been law-abiding and in the country now for two and a half years. >> let me go to you because you again were pivotal in getting

him into that church where he was taking sanctuary in the first place. ice issued a statement saying in part he is a convicted criminal who has received all appropriate legal process under federal law, has no outstanding appeal and has no legal basis to remain in the u.s. so why did mr. oliver bruno take sang wa sanctuary in that church in the first place, and to your knowledge, is he someone with a criminal record? >> well, it was thanksgiving last year when i had a conversation with him where he was sharing that he was asked to lea leave. i think it is important to highlight the inconsistency of how immigration processes are because he had been with a war permit for three years and when he tried to renew his permit for another year is when he was told

that they couldn't renew it. and this is something that someone told me, that the officer in the office in charlotte said that he had to do a lot with the new york administration, that they couldn't renew that permit. >> yeah. and you're shaking your head. so you are saying that the change was the new administration, not a change in something that mr. oliver bruno did? >> that's right. >> so you were also arrested. can you tell us why you were there and what you know about this gentleman's circumstances? >> yeah. like many dnorth carolina ns, w have been following closely the sanctuary process that's happening all over our state, all over our nation. we have been following the story

of mr. bruno's family, how his congregation has been holding him in sanctuary, lovingly protecting his relationship with his wife and his son. and when i got a call that morning, friday morning, i was having breakfast with my family and received a call saying that he had been ambushed in line and that we should all drop everything. so many of us were making these calls to other community members saying, come, we need to come to the aid of our brother samuel. and so we all took arms. i was holding my two and a half year old in my arms and nursing her knowing that i might have to be apart from her soon. and linking arms and singing, feeling -- trying to convey to

samuel who was trapped inside this vehicle that he is still in sanctuary. we will protect each other. >> and can i ask you what you were -- you were both arrested. so let me ask you first. what were you charged with, if anything? >> yeah. i was charged with failure to disperse following a command, and i was charged with obstructing the ice officers attempt to take samuel away from his family. those are the same charges that the 27 of us received. >> and do you have counsel? what is the state of those cases? >> well, we just know that we need to appear in court some time in january and we are -- we are in conversations about our legal advice. >> and congressman, then what do you expect the adjudication of

this case to be? again, ice is claiming that this has to do with mr. oliver bruno being a convicted criminal. what do you know about that? and what do you know about how these cases will all be disposed of? >> joy, what ice has done is absolutely reprehensible. they have taken this to the extreme. what all of this means is that we need comprehensive immigration reform in the united states. and now that democrats are in the majority and the house of representatives, i can assure you that we're going to address this issue head-on. we can no longer wait and allow 11 million undocumented immigrants who are a wonderful people to remain in this country in the shadows. we have got to address comprehensive immigration reform beginning in january. and i assure you that we will. mr. bruno was a law-abiding citizen. the offense that he has been accused of is simply entering the country. >> right. >> and failing to leave the country when ordered by the court.

but he has a petition pending currently to defer his deportation. and that's what needs to be heard. he was in sanctuary, and they baited him out of sanctuary. it is a classic case of entrapment on the part of ice. >> it is parent important to ge out there. this was a lot of force used about that. congressman, thank you very much for being here. thank you all very much for being on this morning. and we will -- >> thank you. >> keep us up-to-date on this case. thanks. up next, the white house is calling for decorum from the press. you cannot make this stuff up.

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i have one question. >> mr. president, if i may ask one other question. >> that's enough. that's enough. >> mr. president. >> that's enough. >> i want to ask -- >> that's enough. >> pardon me, ma'am. >> that's enough. >> mr. president, i have one other question if i may ask on the russia investigation. are you concerned that you may have -- >> i'm not concerned about anything because it's a hoax. that's enough. put down the mike. >> wow. it took a court case for jim acosta to get his press pass

back after that exchange. now the white house has come up with new rules for decorum. joining me now, charlie pierce, writer at larmg for "esquire." now that cnn's jim acosta can come back into the room. this a journalist called upon to ask a question will ask a single question and then will yield the floor to other journalists. at the discretion of the president or other white house official taking questions, a follow-up question or questions may be permitted and then they may yield. yielding the floor includes when applicable, physically surrendering the microphone to a white house staff for use by the next questioner or intern, failure to abide buy any of these rules, one through three, may result in a suspension of the journalist's hard pass. can you accept these rules of decorum, charlie pares? >> well, first of all, i don't know if you remember woody allen's movie "bananas."

the language of san marcos will be swedish and everybody has to change their underwear and everybody has to wear them on the outside. that's what this reminds me of. the white house is perfectly entitled to set these rules. it's their house. the media there is absolutely obligated to violate them all. that's just the way this works. beyond that it's a bur less bei gue. >> here's the thing, it isn't their house. it's our house. it's the people's house. the white house belongs to the american people and the press are our representatives as i recently learned the mckinley administration invited them to be indoors. but they're still in the people's house. >> well, i understand that, you know, fill low sophicically. i've never bought the fact that we represent the american

people. that's a little grandiose for us. it is their press room. they can set rules and we can disobey them. that's the way it's supposed to work. they set rules. they can set rules about what information we can have and then we have to violate those rules to get the information that we need. that's the pulling and hauling. that's what the people in the white house don't seem to understand. it's certainly what the president doesn't understand. >> isn't it partly if you talk to biographers on donald trump, it's because he has this obsession with the fact that he doesn't feel like he's respected enough. that he wants to be treated with a certain deference. you do see on the part of some of the press, yes, sir, thank you, sir, very sort of -- that people understand that that's the way they have to approach him in order to get him to engage. does that make sense to you in a democratic republic? >> no, it doesn't. it's a problem -- it's, again, one of the problems that's been exacerbated by the fact that we somehow wound up with this guy as a president. if you go back to tim crouse's

book "the boys in the bus" there's a chapter about covering the nixon white house during watergate. to a lesser extent and less of a public circus we have now, but the same problems were there. they were talking about banding together to oppose, you know, whatever rules for decorum ron ziegler was trying to impose on them. the other thing is the great reporting on this executive branch has been done outside of the white house press room. the really, really great reporting even on what's going on in the white house has happened outside of these briefings. >> yeah. >> so while i understand -- i understand the fill low sophic point that you have to have these briefings because it's the people's house and all of that. >> yeah. >> the real reporting on what's gone terribly wrong with our country from the executive branch has come from outside the briefings. >> and also people who just sort of take up a couch inside the white house and just sit there for a year like michael wolf did

or from anonymous leakers who write op eds and who don't put their name on them or from people who wait for the information from leakers. charlie pierce, thank you for your time. >> thank you, joy. >> the rules for decorum today is go get yourself a boozy brunch. that's all the rules. >> okay. that's great. >> have a great day. more "am joy" after the break.

we have got breaking news. new revelations in the investigations of hillary clinton's e-mails. >> her e-mail controversy following her on the campaign trail. >> the e-mails. >> the state department, as you know, has decided to reopen its own internal review of your use of that private e-mail server. >> if you had said in martha the e-mail system began in march of '09 and we have this popping up in january, explain that. >> oh, you thought the e-mail zanld was over? welcome back to "a.m. joy." in 2016 they urged a foreign power to attack his opponent. he admitted to bragging about sexually assaulting women, he mocked a reporter's disability or he actually just bragged about it, he mocked a reporter's disability. i could go on and on. but what scandal actually riveted the media above all

else? what made the front pages in the news every single day? hillary clinton's e-mails. take a look at this. a harvard study found during the 2016 campaign mentions of clinton's e-mails dominated news coverage far outstripping the most covered trump topic, immigration and dwrarfing his ties to sexual assault. fast forward two years to this week when it was revealed that the president's daughter and advisor ivanka trump has been doing the exact same thing her father and the media were fixated on using private e-mail for government business. so naturally the story has seen wall to wall coverage, front page headlines every day? no? no. this time around it seems like the media is again taking its cues from donald trump. >> very innocent. short period of time. very early on. >> you're talking about all fake news. >> but her e-mails, indeed. joining msnbc contributor, gabe

sherman, jill wine banks and washington correspondent for the toronto star, daniel dale. we have the graphic now. let me show you guys it. i have it here in my hands as well. there it is. so if you look at the bar grar o graph, on the far end, eric, you can see the story that got the most coverage. the stories that got the most sentences by topic and this is from may of 2015 to november of 2016. on the far left end of the screen, clinton foundation is the second highest but look at the e-mail scandal. then benghazi is up there. go all the way in and you can see trump immigration got about, you know, a little more than half of the attacks that e-mails got. e-mails were really the story of the 2016 campaign. so much so that i have one more graphic and this is a word cloud. i don't know if people can see it in my hand. we'll put it up on the screen.

if you asked voters what they understood, you can even see it. you probably can't see any of the other words on my word cloud, but e-mails were huge. if you go to donald trump and you asked what do you know about donald trump, there were a whole bunch of different things, debate, women, immigration, et cetera. e-mails was it. it was the story. >> it wasn't just the campaign story. it was 2015 and 2016. this was a year and a half. >> yeah. >> so with the ivanka story we have yet again more confirmation that the press invented a brand-new standard to judge the first woman nominee for president. the press doesn't care about e-mails, it doesn't care about transparency, it doesn't care about claims that these e-mails were possibly a threat to national security. they didn't -- they don't care about any of that when it comes to the trumps. two things are important. the e-mails obliterated policy coverage. there was also studies that there is essentially no coverage of what hillary clinton would do if she became president. they literally didn't have enough space and enough hours for all the e-mail coverage so

into the vapor went policy. and the other reason this is so important instead of being angry about 2016, which a lot of us still are, these news rooms won't acknowledge they did anything wrong. what are they going to do in 2020? we don't know who the nominee is going to be. i guarantee whoever the nominee is, the republicans will launch a claim of criminality and are we going to see the same show all over again? >> gabe, it's partly important because it is a story about coverage that then is going to be reflective of what happened in 2020. donald trump is also still threatening to force the justice department somehow to investigate hillary clinton over these e-mails. >> yes. >> while saying at the same time that his daughter's e-mail story is irrelevant and doesn't matter and the coverage would suggest that he's winning that argument because the coverage of ivanka's e-mails hasn't been nearly -- nearly -- not even close and she is a senior advisor to the president with a top security

clearance. so all of the same risks apply if she's using e-mails but no one -- at the same time, hillary clinton still faces persecution by the person who beat her in the election. >> yeah. see, i think part of the issue is donald trump has exploited one of the weaknesses of traditional media coverage, which is that, you know, media loves scandal, right. ivanka trump gets embroiled in this e-mail controversy. what does he do? he ignites another scandal that distracts and erupts. partly the clinton scandal, why it had so much traction from 2015 through the election, the campaign never had an effective messaging. the media, it became a story of hypocrisy. it took on a life of its own. donald trump has blown through all of those rules. media, instead of holding him accountable, seems to follow the shiny object that he throws out every day. >> daniel dale, you know, if you look at the major newspaper coverage during the clinton and

trump campaign, here's what we have. there's a study that shows five top newspapers published 100 articles mentioning clip ton e-mails over seven days. the "l.a. times", "new york times," "usa today", washington post together published 100 articles mentioning or discussing the e-mails. 46 of those were on the front page. the same newspapers published only 49 trump headlines that did not mention the clip be ton e-mail scandal. "the new york times" did almost three times as many clinton e-mail stories as trump headlines in the washington post and "usa today" each published twice as many e-mail stories as trump headlines. we know there was a certain fixation in the mainstream media which feeds everything else. the other thing that makes it a little bit unnerving is that at the same time you had russians, these bot factories also pushing it and wikileaks also pushing it. it was an ecosystem that dragged the media in. your thoughts? >> yeah. i think one of the things that trump takes advantage of is something i think of as the

avalanche problem. what he does is flood the zone, flood the public, flood the media with literally dozens of controversies or scandals at the same time when his opponents usually have one or two. and the paradox of that is that the person who has one or two is most likely to suffer the effects of the public remembering those knowing a lot about those than the candidate who has, you know, 30 or 50 about whom the public might know a tiny little bit about each one but not remember the details. so i think trump partly accidentally just because he does a lot of controversial or scandalous stuff but partly intentionally floods the zone with his nonsense, his deceit, his arguable corruption and that works for him in his own unique way. >> you know, it's interesting, jill winebanks, because i have read many times, i might have talked to you about the fact that richard nixon turned watergate wanted to have this kind of ecosystem where he could survive a scandal like watergate. you know, you wonder if he had that ecosystem of a conservative

media that would back him up all the way, of something like wikileaks that was acting in concert, and a media that was wanting to present a balance and so it was trying to savage a democrat as much as him because of the stories about him. if he had all those things, one wonders whether he might have actually survived watergate. >> absolutely. if he had had social media, remember, halderman who was his chief of staff was from the advertising world. he might have had some branding experience and might have been successful. donald trump seems to use deny, deny, deny and it works for him. he doesn't admit anything. he's not admitting that his daughter did wrong even though the hypocrisy is so clear. he's just using the deny. but i also -- something you said is really true which is that the mainstream media has now got to stop being called the defenders of democrats.

because what happened here. the mainstream media did in hillary clinton. they let donald trump get away with all of his various scandals with very little coverage and talked about nothing but this e-mail scandal. they ignored policy, as you've noted, and that had a very dramatic impact. so for us to keep saying that the mainstream media was supporting hillary clinton seems completely undone by the truth and the facts and that is something we really need to deal with. >> yeah. i want to go around the table because the other thing is that there is a way in which we talk about ivanka trump as if she's simply an appendage of her father. she's an adult. she is an adult in her 30s. she is a senior advisor to the white house. why is she, i'll ask you two at the table to start, she should be covered for this if e-mail -- if using private e-mail is a scandalous thing to do, she's doing it, so is her husband, by the way. he's done it. mike pence has done it. there's been a lot -- why does

she not then subjected in her own right to scrutiny? >> well, i think this has been the paradox the whole time. she's wanted to have it both ways. i'm the first daughter. on the other hand when it suits her needs she's a senior presidential advisor. so the media doesn't quite know how to cover her. do they cover her as a member of the first family, which is usually a more soft white glove sort of treatment, or are they aggressively doing investigative reporting on her? i think this is an example where the line is clear. she has broken federal government policy. she should be held accountable for it. >> we don't know what she's discussing in these e-mails, right? >> that's right. >> in the case of hillary clinton they went after the clinton foundation. we found there were some risoto recipes. in the case of ivanka trump, she's making money on a brand over seas, getting patents for voting machines. there are things we know she's doing that people ought to be more curious about. it's interesting the curiosity isn't that intense when it comes to her. >> no, tray gaudy got press.

he never said send them over, we're going to put them out in public. we have this complete double standard. the context is this didn't happen in a bubble with hillary clinton. this didn't happen -- "the new york times" didn't lose its mind over the e-mails because of hillary clinton once. you've got to go back to whitewater, you have back to impeachment. they treated them like iran-cont iran-contra, watergate, plus whatever. this is a long running pattern. they have not admitted any wrongdoing from 2016 and that to me is a problem for democrats in 2020. >> it is a question in 2020 because, you know, daniel, donald trump benefits from a fascination that there seems to be with him, with his voters. the media does have a role to play in the sense that if the media is fascinated with someone in a positive way, they -- it's helpful, right? and it does seem that the trumps are all covered like a royal family and that is problematic.

no? >> i think there are a lot of problems still that have not been corrected from 2016. i think the consensus media perception of what they did wrong in 2016 was not give sufficient attention to trump voters in trump country. i think we've seen the extreme over correction to something that wasn't a problem in the first place with this flood of stories from pennsylvania, going to talk to people in diners. there were a host of other problems from the disproportionate e-mail coverage to insufficient coverage to trump's lying which is something i've tried to focus on since the election that have not been sufficiently corrected. dealing with what i call the avalanche problem. i think the media still has not figured out. i think the media's focus on correcting one problem has clouded their judgment and led them to insufficiently correct a whole bunch of other problems that i think will still be problems for democrats in 2020. >> i think it will still be a problem and it's the question of how do you cover what appears to be corruption, right? and has the u.s. media even

though there's been since, you know, the watergate era lots of practice doing it, is there enough sort of -- do we as a media, collective, have enough skill doing it. >> i think there's a couple of issues there. one is that we don't know all of the e-mails that may have violated the policies. it's an absurd argument to say she didn't know when it was the main feature of the news and her father's campaign so that's absurd, but all we know is the ones that have been discovered because other agencies produced documents that were e-mails from her or to her to her private server. we should also point out that it's a server she shares with her husband whose security clearance was quite in doubt for a while. so she was sharing the domain with someone who didn't even have the right security clearance. that's something that's much more serious than sharing a domain with the ex-president who certainly had a security clearance.

and i would point out that the government servers were hacked by the chinese, i know, because all of my financial records as a volunteer with a pentagon committee looking at sexual assault, i had to turn in all of my financial data and the chinese have that. there's no evidence there was any hacking on hillary clinton's e-mail server. so there's so many things that are wrong with how the press covered this and they aren't talking about these facts. and i think that that's really a problem. we also have left, for example, donald trump would appear on "meet the press" and "face the nation" by phone. he didn't have to come into the studio so he got extra attention. >> i think about the fact that huma abiden shared a server with her husband. it literally became the thing that caused jim comey, the fbi director, to come out and do a press conference 11 days into the election.

it's arguable that might have turned the election. i think the media is doing a lot of reflection. the ivanka e-mail story will be an interesting opportunity for a correction. we'll see what happens. thank you all very much. jill, please stick around. up next, the incoming house intelligence chair sets his sights on donald trump's businesses.

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it is certainly true that one of the issues the republicans would not allow us to investigate when they were running the committee, and i don't think congress has looked into this at all and i don't know that bob mueller has, is whether the russians had been laundering money through the president's businesses and this is the financial hold the russians may have. we need to get an answer and tell the american people, yes, it's true, no, it's not. the american people deserve to know that the president has their interests in mind, not his pecuniary interests. >> the incoming chairman of the house intelligence committee is telegraphing what he wants to look into once democrats take over in january. it's another investigation that's sure to set off donald trump since it potentially deals with his businesses. of course, it comes about a week after trump resorted to make fun of schiff's name on twitter. a judge has denied george

papadopoul papadopoulos's effort to report to jail. this ruling means he will have to turn himself in tomorrow. joining me is a staff writer at the atlantic. president and ceo of latino and jill wine banks. >> papadopoulos tried to stave off going to jail. has to report tomorrow. does that mean his cooperation is over, that he's not needed anymore? >> yeah, exactly. he was lodging this last-ditch attempt to avoid going to jail which many legal experts said wasn't going to work. >> including tweeting. >> right. that was used against him last week in court filings issued by the special counsel's team saying, look, he is now saying that he has no remorse, that he feels like he was entrapped, that he thinks that the fbi completely set up him and the trump campaign which, you know, when he was in a courtroom getting sentenced he said that he was sorry, that he was remorseful, that he regretted

lying to the fbi and now for reasons unbeknownst to us because he wants publicity or he wants to configure himself as a major player in trump world and get a deal with fox news or book deal, he's gone off on twitter saying that he thinks that the fbi's corrupt and that the biggest scandal in american political history is going to be uncovered by him. this was all used by mueller to demonstrate to the judge that this isn't someone who has a genuine remorse, this isn't someone who should be taken seriously when he says that he will provide new evidence to the court that there was some kind of wrongdoing by the fbi. the judge found that completely implausible. and so george papadopoulos will now have to report to jail tomorrow for two weeks. this is not a six-month prison sentence. >> right. >> he's going to be there for two weeks. it's a fairly curby prison that he's going to be at. he now is trying to make himself into a martyr and we'll see what happens after those two weeks are up. >> we'll see. for a second, we know that mueller's team is going to

submit a report to the judge tomorrow about another one of these defendants, paul manafort, about his cooperation. according to bloomberg, former federal prosecutor le coning says something will be happening in the next ten days that will give them a better idea on where he is in the process. any reporting or scuttle what that might be? >> no. it could be that manafort has been cooperating substantially with the special council. he was cooperating before. he was not being that forthcoming with bob mueller but there was a little bit of doubt cast on that because manafort is in a position to tell mueller a lot about the campaign, especially about the trump tower meeting, for example. anything that he does tell mueller we will potentially find out tomorrow how significant it was and whether or not manafort has actually been cooperating in an effort to lessen his sentence because, of course, he was convicted in august of these

major felonies. >> yeah. >> so now that we have evidence that perhaps he is cooperating, we'll just have to wait and see what that's about. >> alan dershowitz has been very much in donald trump's corner when it comes to the mueller investigation, but he even seems to be quite pessimistic about what this report might mean. here is professor alan de dershowitz earlier on abc. >> i think the report is going to be devastating to the president and i know that the president's team already is working oen a response to the report. >> maria-teresa, the special counsel's office is tight-lipped. we don't get any information f. alan dershowitz is saying it's going to be bad, it's probably going to be terrible. >> he has been for all intents and purposes been the one that's been in the inner circle of russia and the one that when he was in donald trump's ear, the

one that had the direct line to folks to what was happening in the influence that the russians may have had on the trump campaign. so the fact that there is increased collaboration for manafort, this idea that there's a report coming, the fact that alan dershowitz is signaling that there's something happening demonstrates that he's basically spilling the beans. what is interesting though is that if you listen very closely to all these individuals that are basically under investigation or that are under questionable relationships within the trump administration, they all use the same words. they all use entrapment. they all use hoax. they all use the fact that the fbi is corrupt. it's laying the groundwork that if something does happen that pinpoints to donald trump basically he's already laid the groundwork with all his individuals in the media saying, look, whatever comes out of the fbi has to be questionable because clearly it's trying to be unsuitable and unjust to the

president. >> yes, there is a new book by trump advisors that alleges that the president claims he has embedded enemies and that the mueller investigation, he says, helps him politically. i think it makes my base stronger, says the interview with the washington post. i would never have said this to you but i think the level of love is greater than we want. vice president pence then says stronger and stronger. of course, he's ubiquitous when he says that. what you have is the president digging in, jill. so that no matter what comes out in hais mind he'll survive it because he has his base in his corner. >> and he is right. he does have his base firmly entrenched. they believe anything he says but let me remind you about the manafort trial where a very loyal trump supporter voted to convict manafort on 18 counts and she said i remain a loyal supporter. i believe the witch hunt is true, that it's a hoax, but the evidence against manafort was

real and he was guilty on all 18 counts. and i am hopeful that paula duncan, who was that juror, will lead the way for other trump supporters to say facts matter and that they will eventually see it. you mentioned about the russians and what they might owe to -- or what trump might owe to them and how they might be the reason why he's acting this way, but i say we also need to look at china who has given trademarks to his daughter. we also need to look at saudi arabia who he continues to defend despite the cia's conclusion that the prince is responsible for the killing of a u.s. resident. i think we need to look at all of the facts and see what is motivating the bad behavior that's going on. >> yeah. >> and we can't just believe him because he says it. >> yeah. to that very point about saudi arab arabia, jill, that you mentioned. let me play you adam schiff.

it's not nunez anymore. it's a different world. here's adam schiff on the jamal khashoggi killing and what he knows about it thus far. >> i have been briefed by the cia and though i cannot discuss the contents of the preefg in any way, i can say i think the president is being dishonest with the american people. i don't know why. it's certainly not atypical, frankly, the president has been dishonest with the country about a great many things. >> natasha, do you expect that this committee is going to look into what financial ties that president trump has with saudi arabia to cause him to be so soft on the kingdom? >> absolutely. now that we know they're hiring financial viinvestigators to pr for the many investigations into trump's finances, i figure that's going to be one of their top priorities is figuring out why the president seems to be so beholden to the saudi crown prince. what's really remarkable about trump's kind of reaction to all of this is that he's acting like

everything saudi arabia does is a favor to the united states even though they are essentially a client of the united states. >> correct. >> so you have to question what is incentivizing the president to whitewash everything that the saudis have done. and, of course, he said in 2015 that the saudis had paid him millions of dollars for all of his apartments in new york real estate. the saudis have continued to contribute money to trump properties since he has been president. that is not something we can overlook just like the house intel committee in my reporting over the last two years or so, they've been really, really eager, the democrats anyway, to figure out what trump's financial entanglements are here and whether he has serious conflicts. now that they have subpoena power, they're literally chomping at the bit to figure out what republicans did not want to uncover, which is how are the president's financial interests at play with his governing? is there a conflict there? >> they also now have the ability to obtain donald trump's

tax returns if they want to and his financial records so that is something we should probably assume will happen. yes? >> this is what a lot of -- this is what the mid terms actually had consequences. it actually provided a balance of power of checks and balances. the congress now can actually go ahead and do their job and find out what are those financial disclosures? what is the entanglement that he has in china, in russia, in saudi arabia? are there others? what's curious, there was a memo that was leaked by one of the managers of trump hotel in new york saying our quarter was really terrible and all of a sudden it spiked. it turned out it was because the saudi arabians, the prince had said he was going to stay at the hotels, funneled a bunch of money into it and did not stay at that property. there's a lot of things that the intelligence community can dig. it's because we brought in checks and balances. >> devin nunez is no longer in charge. thank you all very much. coming up, the question you love to ask. you know you love it.

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people. this is the deal that is on the table. this is the best possible deal. it's the only possible deal. >> british prime minister theresa may is taking a victory lap after the european council approved her brexit deal following 18 months of negotiations earlier this morning. it's the first step in a painstaking process with the deal now headed to the british parliament for final approval. it's something that's easier said than done after a majority of parliament bashed the agreement with some pushing for a no confidence vote on theresa may. a move that could oust her from office and collapse the government altogether. last month hundreds of thousands of britts took to the streets demanding a referendum. brittain is set to leave the union. we'll be right back to find out who won the week. (music throughout)

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all right. it's time for the most important question of all, the only question, who won the week? e.j., michelle and jonathan are back with me. ladies first. right down the middle. going to michelle. michelle, who won the week? >> joy, for me, alexandria ocasio-cortez won the week simply because she dissed fox news once again. as you know, our friends on the far right over at fox are absolutely obsessed with the congresswoman-elect. she has not even been sworn in

yet, and outside of her, quote, unquote, socialist views they are absolutely obsessed with her shoes and her clothing. on friday night when she found out from a twitter follow lower that fox news had devoted a four person panel discussion to her clothing, and i will say just to be fair that some of the panels did have some nice things to say about alexandria ocasio-cortez, she tweeted back a reply in spanish and then another twitter follow lower said, oh, come on, are you really going to make them get a tlantsor to have to understand what you have said? and let me just quote real quickly what she said to them. she said, don't worry, fox news has made it clear that they are far superior to me, more intelligent than me who they've called a little, simple person so i'm sure catching up to me in spoken languages shouldn't be a problem for them and for that i say she wins the week.

>> never mess with a millennial who has their phone. they're going to go on twitter and they're going to diss you. leave her alone. this negative obsession with her is fascinating. it is an obsession on the right. aoc. ejd. i'm going to e.j., who won the week? >> the only way i can top that is to say that the planet won the week. the national climate assessment, the administration tried to bury it, put it out, but it finally brought climate change back to public attention. it's a really tough report. it says that climate events have become more frequent, intense, widespre widespread, of long duration, record brooking numb inbreakings costing us millions since 2015. this is a big deal because the issue has been buried under trumpian news, under administration denial. i say the planet may be because

the administration isn't doing anything about it. >> yeah. >> but at least, you mentioned it yesterday, bless you, it's on the table again for people. >> absolutely. you know, this report is devastating. it talks about the potential for extreme weather events, economic devastation. we've seen it between the wildfires, hurricanes. these things are happening and it's shocking that anyone denies climate change is real. to your point, e.j., did you get the sense that it was a dump? it came out of the administration which was anti-climate change. it felt like a friday news dump? >> it did. and on thanksgiving day weekend, it's not something they were trying to call attention to. >> yeah. >> only caravans are worth their attention it seems. >> absolutely. absolutely. not all heroes wear capes. we have a cape. we have j. capes here. jonathan capehart. we love a nickname on this show. j. capes, i'm going to go now

because you have to now fight alexandria ocasio-cortez, you have to fight the planet. e.j. put the planet on the table. can you beat that with who won the week? >> oh, absolutely. i'm going with the queen of the hill. come on now. nancy pelosi won the week. we've been talking about once the democrats -- it was clear the democrats were going to retake the house, everyone had been talking about, oh, my god, will nancy pelosi be the next leader. she should go. there's all this opposition to her, but over this past week we have watched one opponent after the other drop out. the most significant one being congresswoman marcia fudge of ohio. you have all of these people signing letters saying she shouldn't be the leader. not on substantive grounds but she's been there too long. she knows how the house works. she intimately knows what her

caucus wants and needs. her focus is the caucus, not her own political viability and the other thing is this is really more important here why she should be the next speaker and why she won the week. we have a budget deal -- the government's about to run out of money and probably will continuing resolution into when she becomes a speaker. we have a debt ceiling crisis that they'll have to face in the coming weeks and then the third and most important thing is we don't know if/when robert mueller is going to hand down this report and what it says. and if the special counsel comes back and recommends that congress should draw up articles of impeachment, that is no time for amateur hour. that is time for a leader who knows the house, knows how it works, and has been through stuff like this before. and so she's won the week this week. she's going to keep winning the week until she officially gets the votes to be a speaker and then we get to watch a true

master of congress at work. >> it's interesting that this fight against nancy pelosi was simply on the basis of how long she was there. >> her number two steny hoyer has been there just as long and there was never any sense that the men who were just below her in leadership should go. seven leadership positions. the only one that this core said give us new blood was only her. >> you know what, joy, an added point, let's look at her counterpart in the senate. chuck schumer who i respect and admire, but he lost seats. no one's talking about him stepping down as leader of the democrats in the senate at all. >> that's true. i'll throw this to the panel. people see the speaker of the house and have been conflating the speaker of the house with the leader of the party and they're leader of the caucus. they'll lead the 240 people. she clearly knows them very well. do you want -- what marsha fudge needed to happen, she made that happen, she knew how to mollify

her caucus. you cajole and push. it is interesting. >> i was going to say, you probably wouldn't be have obamacare if it hadn't been for nancy pelosi which is a big deal. you look at that whole leadership. it is really old. the collective age is almost 240, and i think that the -- it's true. and i think that pelosi understands that the party basically wants her there for all the reasons jonathan said. they're also looking for openings for new leadership down the road. >> absolutely. >> and i think we're going to hear signals from her between now and the vote that i'm here, you need me now, but i am opening the way for new leadership and that's how i think this gets resolved. >> absolutely. michelle bernard, it's not for nothing to have the third most powerful, maybe the second. the vice president goes to funerals. the most powerful person, the adversary for donald trump being a woman. i don't think it's lost on people that that's important and

also the fact that you picked aoc as winning the week. it seems to be that nancy pelosi has cultivated a really smart mutually beneficial relationship with the woman who is arguably the big star of the incoming caucus. >> absolutely. from what we understand, she has gone out of her way to make sure that aoc is going to get what she wants. we believe a select committee on climate change. >> yes. >> after she gets sworn in. nancy pelosi is the master at this and normally, you know, people don't complain about age, looks or clothing unless we are talking about a woman. >> yes. >> and i'm glad to see that we're finally getting to a point in time where people are going to really understand and look at everything that nancy pelosi has done for this congress and what she is going to do. i think she's going to go down in history as one of the greatest leaders, male or female, that we will ever see in the united states congress. >> third in line to the presidency. >> jonathan's answer incorporated all of the other answers. all of those answers are wrong

because who actually won the week even though -- it's not democracy. independent media. i'm giving it to independent media. i like all of your answers. this week has been really i think reinforced the independent media. the jackson press uncovered much of the headline, many of the headlines we were seeing about cindy hyde-smith, the u.s. incumbent member. the bayou blog. this has been an important week with the white house correspondents and her backing off on having a comedian. i think it's a good week for independent media. those are the kinds of press we should be supporting. they 1250i78s lead zblus that's not fair because you know none of us is going to argue about the value of independent media so you win. >> as long as you end that

sentence with i win, e.j., i'm happy with that. my friends, i really appreciate you guys. three of the best in the business. thank you all. have a wonderful sunday. off to brunch with you. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, a very, very special visitor joins "am joy." >> santa's coming to town. >> santa! oh, my god. santa, here? i know him. i know him.

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thanksgiving and black friday have come and gone and the christmas season is officially upon us, which means it's time to bring you your dose of holiday cheer from mrs. clause and santa larry. he just is. santa larry and mrs. klaus, they join me now. oh, my goodness. it's a pleasure to make your acquaintance, mrs. klaus. i wore red just for the occasion. >> did you? >> yes. i'm going to -- santa larry, i'm going to defer to mrs. klaus. >> okay. >> we're going to say the thankfulness. we're thankful for both of you. what are the santas thankful for? what are you thankful for? >> we are thankful -- first of

all, we're thankful that we're able to be here, to be a part of this occasion and we just, you know, appreciate the fact that you've invited us to be a part of this. and we're thankful for all of the children all around the world and we are praying for our children. we're thankful that we're going to have the opportunity to be able to help out children out this season. >> we love it. >> and also -- and also i'm thankful for good health. >> yes, very important to have good health. santa larry, inviting you on our show is an annual tradition. >> i love it. >> tell us this year, what should children do? everybody has to be nice, right? you can't be naughty, you have to be good, nice, right? >> yes. yes. >> how can we get more love into the world so that everyone is nice? >> oh, by showing respect and care for one another and especially for the children. i want the children to listen to their teachers, listen to their

parents and say their prayers at night every night. >> yeah. that is very true. santa, i know the christmas lists are not rolling in just quite yet. it takes a little while. what are you hearing from the children? we know that you hear everything. you know all. you are santa. what are children really wanting this year? >> oh, my gosh. they're asking for skateboards, for dolls, for baseball, basketball. you name it. every toy in the world. from iphones. kids are requesting iphones also. >> oh, my god. we know that elves can make it all. let's go to the elves. i want to ask you, mrs. claus, real talk, just you and me here. how short are they really? >> well, they're short but not so short that they can't do their job. >> isn't that the best answer ever? that's why you guys are the santas. what do the elves like to eat? what is their diet like? >> you know, they like to eat a little bit of everything. they like berries, they like

fruit, they like -- they even like veggies. we have to talk to them a little hard about eating their veggies, but eventually they will get to eating their veggies. >> santa larry, you talked about your health being very important. give us some of your tips for staying healthy. >> oh, i try to walk at least three miles a day. i try to drink plenty of water and mrs. claus makes the best tuna fish sandwiches. >> you want to be healthy, santa larry, but you've got to keep the belly. >> oh. >> it's part of being santa. >> a little. yes. yes, a little. >> it's part of it. santa larry, thank you for bringing mrs. claus along. thank you for coming down from the north pole. we love having you on. we want to wish you even this early a very, very merry christmas. >> very merry christmas to you, joy. what would you like this year? >> sleep. i would like to get some sleep. >> sleep. >> that's what i want. >> we'll work on that for you.

>> joy, do you want to hear your jikle this year? >> i do. absolutely. go for it. >> all right. ♪ joy to the world ♪ joy is here ♪ at msnbc >> i love it. >> merry christmas. >> santa larry and mrs. claus. we love you. merry christmas. thank you all so much. more "am joy" after the break. ♪ carla is living with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of her body. she's also taking prescription ibrance with an aromatase inhibitor, which is for postmenopausal women with hormone receptor-positive her2- metastatic breast cancer

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a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. that is our show for today. thanks for watching. "am joy" will be back next weekend. up next, alex witt. >> so cute, joy to the world. i've thought that before. i'm not going to sing it. i'm going to spare all of the viewers that. >> i love it and i love santa larry and mrs. claus. awesome. >> have a good one. thank you, my friend. good day to all of you. i'm alex witt at msnbc headquarters in new york. here's what's happening right now, the president, democrats and changing tide on capitol hill. new indications today about what lies ahead. >> now he knows there's going to be some push back. they're tired of hearing the lies. they're hearing people say the lies are truth and truth are lies. >> when bob mueller puts together a report on among other things obstruction of justice, will that report