business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. ♪ welcome to "kasie dc." i'm kasie hunt. we're live every sunday from washington from 7:00 to 9:00. breaking news at the border. a port of entry near san diego is shut down as demonstrations break out and hundreds of migrants try to cross into the united states. plus, thank you, president t. his words, not mine. president trump uses the holiday break to give thanks for himself. and to attack his own government in unprecedented ways. and roger stone is just one of several former trump confidantes the special counsel

appears to be closing in on. we'll dive into the latest developments out of the mueller investigation when senate intelligence committee member angus king joins me live. we want to begin with the breaking news. hundreds of mile rants rushing the u.s. border near san diego. pedestrians and road crossings have been closed in both directions at what is the world's busiest border crossing. and it comes as we are hearing two different stories from the u.s. and mexico about a supposed deal requiring asylum applicants to stay in mexico while their cases are processed in the u.s. so we're waiting on nbc news correspondent hans nichols. as soon as he's available we'll jump and talk to him. for now, i want to welcome in the panel. joining me on set, jonathan swan. co-founder of the beat dc, tiffany cross, republican strategist, rick tyler and nbc news national security reporter julia ainsley. we were hoping to have this

conversation with hans to get a better sense really of what is going on, on the ground. obviously, you've been covering it from here in washington. but what do we know about the situation that's going on at the border? how is it different from some of the other -- you've reported there have been other closings in recent weeks. >> last sunday there was a closing because they thought something like this might occur. around 3:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m., it seemed like it was a posturing to show we can shut down this border. and what we're seeing today needs a lot of context around it. it's not that these migrants that we're seeing running, this is the first time they've and to the border. they've been waiting, most of them over a week trying to come in and claim asylum. they've been in a pressure cooker situation. not only has the president not put more people down there to process their asylum claims. he's now put out new guidelines that say they can't come through certain ports of entry and he's willing to use armed military to try to keep them from coming through. so all of this is getting out. it's not just being talked about

here. they're paying close attention to the news and they're waiting in some of the most dangerous towns along that border in mexico trying to get in. it's a lot of desperation but it is a serious response to this. and what we could see is if they keep this closed much longer. it's a huge effect on commerce. this is the busiest land port of entry, border crossing, for commerce in the world. >> it's pretty unreal. jonathan swan, the president had threatened to close the border entirely. he said if something like this happens, i'll close the border. how do you put what we're seeing and we've got more pictures of what's been going on the past couple of hours. how do you put the context of these images and what's going on into the context of our politics here? >> the way the president thinks about this and certainly hard-liners around him think about it is this should be seen as part of a series of actions that he's taken to make it much more difficult for people vulnerable people from dangerous parts of the world to get into

the united states. if this deal -- we don't really know what's happened because there's different stories with mexico saying one story and a different story coming out of america. but if this -- some such deal was to come to fruition. >> that deal is to keep these people on the mexican side of the border while they wait for their asylum claims instead of coming here. >> that would be a huge deal because these claims take a very long time to process. and so you have people's lives on hold and they're on the mexican side of the border. people in trump world view this as a deterrent for people wanting to seek asyl sboum the united states. it needs to be seen as part of a suite of policies they're trying to implement. >> hans nichols is with us from otay mesa on the american side of the border. sounds like you've had quite an afternoon. can you walk us through what's going on? >> they've just opened the main port of entry. that's where most of the flow

had been taking place and that's where those migrants were trying to surrender, trying to file their claims to make those applications for asylum at an official point of entry. it was closed for about four hours. we came turnover this point of entry. would have taken five, six hours to get through. we ended up cajoling our way through. we got here faster. a lot of people are still in line here, unaware of just how long they have to wait. here's how the day unfolded. earlier this morning, around 9:00 a.m., a bunch of those migrants decided to leave that camp. think about 5,000 people sleeping in the size of a middle school baseball field and that gives you a sense of just how cramped they are. they left and they initially were rebuffed by federal police from the mexican state, riot police. rebuffed from crossing a bridge to get to the point of entry. this is all on the mexican side. they then went around. a few clashes, skirmishes. they then went around and crossed a river full of human waste, sludge of a river and

they crossed that trying to get closer to the point of entry. i don't know if it was hundreds, more than a thousand. men, women, children, old and young. the whole group was sampled there. they didn't get in there and they tried to go farther up the border, broke through a wall and they were rebuffed. most of them are trickling back into tijuana. what's unclear is where they'll spend the night and whether they have any chances of filing their asylum claims on the u.s. side of the border. kasie? >> hans, just to clarify for us because there have been some photos on twitter of a family being teargassed. was that teargas fired by the mexican authorities? what was the extent of the involvement on the part of u.s. authorities. and when they broke through that fence, were they actually on u.s. soil or still on the mexican side? >> no, yeah. it was a restraining fence on the mexican side so they never breached the u.s. border, as far as we could tell. now we saw some of the teargas.

we didn't really smell it and we weren't in the position where the teargas was taking place. it was -- so i don't want to confirm whether or not the u.s. used teargas because we simply weren't there to witness it. it was a chaotic day. we're talking about a distance of about anywhere from a mile to a mile and a half where all this took place. and it was very -- a fast-moving situation. so the places where we were at were not teargassed, although as you seaid, there are reports of that. i'll leave it other to reports to clarify. at no point did the migrants either get to the point of entry or did they breach the wall. just to give you a sense of what this caravan is like, when we saw some of the migrants coming back, one person in the family was holding a ladder and the other was holding a stroller. and that gives you a sense of the make-up of this caravan. >> hans nichols, thank you for your just the facts reporting. we should underscore that,

remember, if you are making a claim of asylum at a legal point of entry, crossing into that legal point of entry is not what we'd refer to as undocumented or illegal immigration. that is something enshrined in international law and has been the subject of much of the arguing and the president's frustration with the 9th circ t circuit. jonathan swan, we want to return to the conversation we were having before we spoke with hans which is these are the images that play right into the president's hands stoking fear of immigrants. >> even just the images that you are playing there. i mean, you cannot underestimate the effect this has on a large proportion of voters in this country. trump's message resonates with a lot of people. and there is still -- i still see in washington a body of political opinion that refuses to acknowledge that. and trump knows that. he's going to continue talking

about this. he's going to highlight this. he's going to militarize this. he's going to use it to his political advantage because he knows it works. and it does. >> yeah. speaking of that, rick tyler, i want to bring in hillary clinton. she spoke to "the guardian" over in europe and had some pretty remarkable comments on the europeans have also struggled with migration. i think europe needs to get a handle on migration because that's what lit the flame. i think it's fair to say that europe has done its part and must send a very clear message that we are not going to be able to continue to provide refuge and support because if we don't deal with the migration issue, and this is the key part it will continue to royal the body politics. she seems to be acknowledging what jonathan was talking about. that this was an issue that's inflamed passions and is really fundamentally threatening a lot of our democratic -- what we consider to be democratic norms.

>> i don't want to defend hillary but it was probably a poorly worded question. not a poorly worded question. a poorly worded answer. it seems to me that she's saying that we need to deal with -- that the key sentence there seems to be the europeans have done their fair share. >> europe has done its fair share. >> my implication is the united states has not done their fair share. what you're seeing is 30 years of immigration failure but also these are refugees, right? and so jonathan talked about a deterrent by the white house. the deterrent, it's a little like being in a burning building and having the deterrent to be people with machine guns outside the building burning a building. that's what people don't recognize. the bulk of the people -- >> are you saying they have two horrible choices? >> it's a horrible choice. these people are fleeing central america, honduras because their lives are at stake because their family members or themselves are being threatened or killed by

gang members. maybe not all of them, but a significant number. they are refugees. it's a humanitarian crisis. we have the ability to process it. and the answer can't be that they wait in mexico and it's very unclear right now, this could be against any number of treaties that we have. and it also seems to be against u.s. law because in order to actually get asylum, you have to be in the united states. you can't be in another country except for extraordinary circumstances. >> a lot of that violence we talk about, push factors. things pushing people out of their country here. i spoke to some officials who are trying to make sense of, is there a deal with mexico to keep these asylum seekers there. >> mexico says no. >> one thing i heard from a u.s. official involved in these negotiations is mexico wants something in return. it's for the u.s. to finally commit to solving these push factors. to at least making an effort to try to do more investment and

improve the economies in these countries which is something that former dhs secretary john kelly started as he started his platform to reporters saying that's what they would focus on. >> this is very reminiscent of the family separation policy. it seems like a position the administration took without really thinking through all the logistics. this is a logistical nightmare to close the border. $1.7 billion worth of goods pass through this border every day. hundreds of thousands of legal immigrants pass through the border every day. i'm not sure the administration has thought through what this is going to look like tomorrow. >> right. so this, of course, comes inside a much broader picture because as this holiday week comes to a close, one thing is clear. the president isn't thankful for many of the institutions that have long been considered the bedrocks of our democracy. and much of his displeasure stems from the issue of immigration. and, of course, there was that stunning thanksgiving teleconference with troops deployed overseas in which the president renewed his attacks on

the federal judiciary after their ruling on asylum seekers. >> terrible thing when judges take over your protective services, when they tell you how to protect your border. it's a disgrace. >> and after an extraordinary rebuke from chief justice john roberts over comments like those, the president criticized him, too. >> i like him, and i respect him, but i think we have to use some common sense. >> and just to take you back. at the same press conference, the president threatened to shut down the government over border security. >> could there be a government shutdown over this wall in december? >> it could happen, over border security. the wall is just a part of border security. a very important part. probably the most important part. but could there be a shutdown? there certainly could, and it will be about border security. of which the wall is a part. >> in a tweet on saturday, that was just yesterday, the president threatened to close the southern border if he deems

it necessary. of course, here we are. jonathan swan, do you think he's really going to follow through on that threat to shut down the government over this? for congressional leaders, this conflagration at the border is coming at the wrong time. >> for the longest time, congressional leaders have been pretty relaxed, but somewhat sure that he's not going to shut down the government. or at least they felt that it wasn't -- >> as relaxed as they've been -- >> relaxed snoo eed isn't quite you talk to people around him at the moment, he is very, very inflamed about this issue. like sincerely inflamed. yes, part of it is politics but he is raging hot angry at kirstjen nielsen. you have to remember, in trump's mind, he doesn't want to hear legal -- one aide once said to me with trump, you want to get him to do something. just tell him the lawyers won't allow it.

that's the quickest way and trump is like, okay, we're doing it. so when you hear legalistic, he goes into a rage. and he doesn't want to hear it. he wants to hear, no, it's our land. it's our border, blunt force, stop them. and whenever she comes back with, well, mr. president, there are these laws. he shuts down. he's frustrated. he hasn't had any success building the wall. it's just been repairs and paltry amounts of money. if they don't give him the money he wants, i don't rule it out. >> julia ainsley, do you think kerstin nielsen is going to keep her job for the next month? >> she's definitely not keeping it in the long term. i've heard it's a matter of when, not if. but it's a matter of what distracts the president at the moment. that's where i'm going to stay on the safe part of that. >> she's gone. she's gone. it's just timing. he hasn't figured out who he wants. >> okay. we answered that question. julia, thanks for making time on this thanksgiving weekend. coming up -- you think the

monday after your holiday weekend is going to be tough? not compared to george papadopoulos. one of the, shall we say, more interesting characters in the russia investigation. he is set to show up to prison tomorrow after a last-minute plea deal to stay free got a resounding no from a judge. that's next on "kasie dc." n front slams on his brakes out of nowhere. you do, too, but not in time. hey, no big deal. you've got a good record and liberty mutual won't hold a grudge by raising your rates over one mistake. you hear that, karen? liberty mutual doesn't hold grudges. how mature of them! for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise their rates because of their first accident. liberty mutual insurance. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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you get the best wireless coverage for your phone. ...you're about to find out! you don't even know where i live... hello! see the grinch in theaters by saying "get grinch tickets" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. a guy just dropped this off. he-he-he-he. welcome back. we are following some key developments out of robert mueller's russia investigation.

a federal judge ruled that former trump campaign adviser george papadopoulos must report to prison tomorrow as scheduled. this after rejecting papadopoulos' motion to delay his sentence amid a constitutional challenge to mueller's appointment. meanwhile, conservative author and roger stone associate jerome corsi tells nbc news he is in talks with the special counsel about a plea deal. corsi has been questioned by mueller's team over his knowledge of wikileaks obtaining hacked e-mails from hillary clinton's campaign chairman. tomorrow is the deadline for lawyers in paul manafort's case to submit a report updating u.s. district judge amy berman on manafort's cooperation in the special counsel's probe. joining the conversation now, "new york times" justice department reporter katie benner. and for all of our viewers who have been at home with their families with the tv turned off, trying to ignore the news because who wants to fight with their families about politics over thanksgiving dinner, bring us up to speed. we've got a lot of sort of

bubbling headlines on this mueller investigation. what's the most important thing that happened this weekend? >> i think those three elements. we're coming together a lot of loose ends is one way to put it. it's clear the mueller team has been trying to figure out a combination of things around wikileaks. was wikileaks communicate with russia, the trump campaign because clearly that misinformation campaign and the way information was weaponized around the election is a huge part of their investigation. to see this particular set of witnesses come together because they were going to be sentenced or because they cooperated says to most people we might see some sort of piece of paper and indictment coming out of team mueller. >> rick tyler, what's your sense among republicans, many of whom didn't support trump in the last campaign but who have sort of come on board, reluctantly or not in the last year and a half, two years. what's their sense of how they think this is going to play out? do they think that mueller's report is going to be hugely

impactful and direct the remainder of the trump presidency or do people not think that's going to happen? >> i said this over a year ago that the trump -- trump was going to undermine mueller the way a campaign team would undermine an opponent. it happens over time. you can't go out and immediately say that someone has no credibility and mueller, of course, hasn't done any press conferences, media appearances. he's not been defending himself. i get the sense that nobody really knows, but when you look at the roger stone/corsi, it's just like a clown show. i mean, it just doesn't seem like -- it's very credible. it almost seems like corsi did make it up. i don't know if he did or didn't and roger stone believed what he made up and roger stone tweeted out something about john podesta and they happened to -- but i don't know. so i -- >> hopefully robert mueller does

would be the point. >> he either knows or doesn't know. i don't want to say i hope it is or isn't. we'd just like this all to end now. tell us what happened in terms of the trump campaign cooperating with russians or not cooperating with russians. we've got to have something. and i think most people are ready for the answer now. >> i think that people -- we were just talking during a break. there's a false hope that people think trump is going to get escorted out on the white house lawn. like eating a bucket of kfc chicken, a wing. >> it's never going to happen. >> that's what what mueller's investigation is about. it's interesting we're talking about jerome corsi. the reason he bonded with trump is over their conspiracy theory of birtherism. the fact that all of us are talking about these people -- >> corsi doesn't believe there was a moon landing. >> exactly. this is like the internet's comment section. elevated himself to being discussed on an msnbc panel.

it's kind of ridiculous. >> i think one of the outstanding mysteries or challenges is -- of the collection of characters that we've just mentioned, it's very unclear whether any of them have genuine ties to the president or were actually communicating about stuff of substance that relates to the mueller probe with the president. papadopoulos, yes, he was in that room and to any normal -- i get shredded whenever i say this because people are like, he was in the room with sessions and trump. he was e-mail with the campaign manager. people don't understand this campaign. it was a complete like -- this guy papadopoulos, i'd never heard of him until -- >> nobody had. i had not. >> i covered that campaign and knew of them. the fact this guy -- they are all liars, for a start. so it's very hard, unless you have something in write, it's very hard to believe a word any of them say. you have a conspiracy theorist, a guy in trouble for lying to the fbi. you have roger stone who --

>> who seems to be the one that had -- >> has had decades-long relationship with trump. stone is the one that has that legitimate thing. of all these developments, i don't think any of them are that interesting. the one i'm watching, or want to know the most about is roger stone. because he has a legitimate decades long relationship with president trump. >> there are pictures of papadopoulos at the table with -- it's not fair to say he wasn't part of the campaign. >> i didn't say that. >> if you are at the table with the principal, you're part of the campaign. >> i'm just telling you, do you know why trump assembled that team? >> to show that he had a -- >> he literally hired the bar scene from "star wars" because everyone was like, you don't have a foreign policy team. i'm just telling you, this guy was not a player on the campaign. i'm not saying it's not worth investigating. i'm just telling you. >> obviously, he shouldn't have been within a mile of the presidential campaign but that he had a touch point is -- >> no doubt. >> mueller is not investigating

his expertise or qualifications but what he knew. nobody thinks that george papadopoulos was a foreign policy expert. >> my point is i'm not -- >> expectations tempered? >> i'd love to have a -- >> i am not even clear that papadopoulos has ever had a conversation with trump that went beyond, hi, mate. how are you. people don't use mate in australia. whatever. >> it also feels to me, katie, it's fun. we'll use the term mate on the set. it does seem to me that mueller is circling and he started with the outside of the circle. he started with george papadopoulos and the idea is to move closer and closer and closer. and now we have the president acknowledging that he answered some questions, although we don't exactly have a sense of the extent to which he actually provided any real information. >> right. and so you're correct. he's running a classic investigation. start from the outside and work your way in. try to flip witnesses. this is what's happening. another signal we might be neither some sort of end is that

trump did answer some questions which is essential for mueller to issue any kind of report. i believe that when we finally see the mueller report there will be no perp walk. what's interesting that's happening is it's all happening at the southern district of new york. as bob mueller has gone through this investigation, he's really focused on things that happened with the trump campaign. did the trump campaign know about russian interference? can we lay out with the russian interference in the campaign looked like. a lot of other issues, criminal issues, those have gone to the southern district of new york and that's about trump inc, trump world and trump's associates and business dealings. while the president may -- while the mueller report may not be devastating to the president in any way other than political -- >> and a brand-new new york twhee attorney general who is laser focused on the trump administration. we have so much more to come. the president heads to mississippi tomorrow ahead of a highly anticipated senate run-off on tuesday trying to

save a republican candidate under fire over the issue of race. and later, foresight is 2020. congressman john delaney is the first democrat to officially declare a white house run. in what's sure to be a jam-packed run, how does he plan to stand out? i'll ask him when he joins me live. "kasie dc" back after this. ♪ introducing e*trade personalized investments professionally managed portfolios customized to help meet your financial goals. you'll know what you're invested in and how it's performing. so you can spend more time floating about on your inflatable swan. [ding]

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president trump is heading to mississippi tomorrow where he'll hold not one, but two rallies on behalf of republican senator cindy hyde smith. after failing to pull in more than 50% of the vote on election day, hyde smith is slated to compete in a run-off against democrat mike espy. on twitter, trump said hyde-smith is an outstanding person who is strong on the border, crime, military and the second amendment. the president's visit comes as hyde-smith is facing tough criticism for a series of recent comments, including one involving the phrase public hanging that's been deemed racist. and now there's new reporting from the local jackson free press that the senator attended and graduated from an all-white segregation academy while in high school in the 1970s. there's a lot there. let's bring in political

correspondent von hilliard on the ground in mississippi and has been following this race closely. vaughn, what's the latest on the race there? what are folks saying about the chances that espy could pull this out on tuesday. you caught up with senator hyde-smith? >> good evening. i'll be frank. it's been a tough race to cover over the last week. particularly around these comments, around the conversation of race. about one-third of the electorate here in mississippi, kasie is african-american. and the question is how many republican voters are ultimately going to vote for mike espy in this race and having conversations with folks here around the state over the last several days, a lot of the republicans we talked to say that she did apologize in that debate and that the issue is ultimately that she stands for being pro-gun, pro-life. those issues are going to lead them to the polls to vote for hyde-smith. there's been a lot of concern. republicans we've talked to and african-american voters, democratic voters here that say they wanted more of an

explanation for cindy hyde-smith. to be frank, we've tried, kasie. she hasn't been very willing to engage in that conversation. it you would be easier to engage in a conversation. it's tough to do it on the way to a campaign bus. this was tonight's latest attempt to talk to senator hyde-smith about what she was apologizing for and the various controversies surrounding her. >> your comments offended a great number of people, senator. >> [ inaudible ]. >> no, you haven't. what is it you are apologizing for. >> how has it been -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> senator, you stood inside in jefferson davis' house and you said that this is mississippi history at its best. what did you mean by that? standing inside of jefferson davis' house and -- >> senator, a third of your electorate is -- senator, you're running to be the u.s. senator of the united states -- senator, you're running to be the u.s. senator. why not talk about race? kasie, i'd asked the senator

before to start off that conversation of whether we could engage in a conversation about race. i made that effort before over the previous days and simply it's -- i find little reason to believe that that conversation is going to take place. and it's an important one here in the state. talking to voters. she said they're focussing -- she's talking about issues important to the people but i feel it's my obligation as a journalist and having a lot of conversations particularly around the delta region here in this state, to have asked her that. the president will be here for two events here tomorrow, kasie. of course the run-off is on tuesday. >> vaughn, thank you, as always, for your dogged reporting. appreciate it. i realize this is a tough story to cover. rick tyler, you were consulting for the republican who lost this race. what's your take on the dynamics here. is this going to be a situation where the voters of mississippi say we don't want to present that face to the nation? >> there's a lot of variables. the first variable, it's all about turnout which is why donald trump is going down tomorrow to remind people that

there's a race on tuesday, which is sort of very unusual because this is a special election which the primary, for lack of a better word, happened on election day. >> a very odd time. >> now a run-off and so do people actually show up. second, do mcdaniel supporters who didn't like the fact that the establishment dumped $4 million on chris mcdaniel's head and they know that. are they going to turn around within two weeks time and vote for cindy hyde-smith. >> he was the farther conservingative. cindy hyde-smith being the establishment. >> and mike espy who is an african-american. they can get -- i suspect they can get 90%, 95% of the african-american vote but that's going to have to be a huge turnout because it's probably one-third. could be up to 40% but then they'll still have to win some 20% to 30% of the white vote. now in alabama, remember,

african-americans voted for the white candidate, the democrat, doug jones, but here you'll have to have white republicans vote for the black democrat and i think given all that, it might be a tall order. >> so black women specifically voted for -- >> exactly. >> so listen, kasie. we have to be honest about the fact that cindy hooid-smith's comments are not a deal breaker in mississippi. for some they are a dealmaker. we have to acknowledge that. that's very true in mississippi. trump carried this state by 18 points in 2016. we have to be clear about the fact we're coming off midterm elections where you saw ron desantis win in florida after making numerous racist comments. brian kemp after actively suppressing the vote in georgia and making additional comments deemed racist. i think a lot of people on the republican side saw this and said this works. this is what we should do. double down on it. so what does cindy hyde-smith do? she elected donald trump to be the voice and face of her

campaign. you see donald trump on her campaign bus. you see donald trump. so i think we have to be really clear about that fact. and i think this does come down to a geo tv effort. african-americans comprise 30% of the voting electorate in mississippi. this will be a challenge for mike espy. i'm not writing him off but he has an uphill battle. >> it's clear that cindy hyde-smith's team saw her numbers were impacted for the worse when she did that. >> i tried this trick with ex-boyfriends of mine where it's like, i'm not really sorry but i'm sorry that what i said offended you. >> she was reading from a card. >> very true. >> biden, warren, booker, delaney? only one of those democrats is officially running for president. he joins me next. is performing "flight of the bumblebee?" ♪

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welcome back to kasie dc. hoping for some down time between the midterms and 2020 presidential race? no such luck there. especially if you live in iowa where presidential campaigns are already ramping up. congressman john delaney, a democrat from maryland, who became the first candidate to officially declare he'll be running in 2020 plans to hire 30 full-time campaign staffers across eight offices by january, and he has already visited all of iowa's 99 counties. the full grassley, as they say and is spending millions in tv

ads running across the state. congressman delaney joins me now on set. thanks very much for being here. i feel like you maybe have another couple weeks to be the only member of the 2020 field. >> yes. >> i am wondering, though -- >> i want to keep the field cleared. >> it does not sound like it based on your colleagues. it seems to me basically everybody who is anybody in the democratic party is thinking about running. >> yeah. >> for president. why is it that you believe you can stand out in a field that's going to include the best and brightest of the party? >> that was one of the reasons i entered the race early. i think i'm the right person for the job. not enough people knew who i was so i entered the race early and have done a lot of work on the ground as you talked about and we are in a really good place to compete now that the race is going to start. >> what do you think you'd do different than what hillary clinton did in 2016 if you plan to run against donald trump? >> well, you know, i think you just have to tell people what

you're going to do for them. i don't think you can make the race about how bad he is. one of the things people always say to me in iowa and new hampshire is i talk about what my plan is. what i want to do. how i want to make the world better. how i want to tell a better story about the future we could have. how i want to bring the country together. i'm not out there just talking about how bad the president is, right? i think people have an opinion of him already and they don't need the candidates running for president to tell them about it. and so i think my campaign will be about what i plan to do, what i think the future we can have together as americans working together as democrats, republicans and independents. and the reason that i think the most important issue facing this country right now is how do we take this terribly divided nation where america is pitted against america and it's something that the president obviously encourages. how do we start bringing the country together? >> there seem to be competing theories among democrats as to the best way to take on president trump. is it somebody who is his literal opposite in that you are boring, don't necessarily

command a lot of tv time, i guess may be a way to put it, or are you somebody who is a media jugg juggernaut that can stand up to him. >> the president is a divider. he tries to divide the american people. i think the president should swear to the american people that they'll never divide them. and so that's what i think the opposite of president trump is. i think the opposite of president trump is someone who tells the truth. someone who is honest about the problems we have and honest about the solutions, who leads with integrity. wants to unify the country, restore civil ite and respect to the privilege of public service. that's what i think the opposite of the president. someone who is competent. someone who understands the issues and is focused on the future, not the past. i don't think the american people are looking for a trump in the democratic party. i think they are looking for something fundamentally different, fundamentally better, right? they want to believe in

something better than what he represents right now. >> interesting. what do you think the number one priority for the party should be? this has been a split i've noticed as well. should it be winning back white rural male noncollege educated voters who turned to president trump in 2016? or should it be expanding coalition, the coalition of, you know, the obama administration looked to younger people of color. >> with no disrespect, that's a bas bit of a false choice. >> i'm asking you to order those priorities. >> i think when you start thinking about that way it's a mistake. you should have a message that excites people. talk about the future. the future you want to build together. but we also should be a big tent party. we should be welcoming of progressives, cent rirists, eve disaffected republicans. if you look at this midterm success we had as a party, the formula is there in front of us. be a big tent party, talk bashes that matter to people, excite

voters. the millennial turnout was terrific but if you look at a lot of the wins we had where we flipped republican seats, they were with big tent democratic candidates. so there is an example where we had great turnout but also candidates who ran towards the center. >> all right. >> so i don't think you have to make a choice. i think you can do both. if we want to win, which should be our absolute number one priority, right, is winning. the best way to win is to turn out our voters and to persuade the fastest growing party in this country, which is the independent party, that we're the party that wants to build a better future. >> all right. congressman john delaney, the sole democratic presidential candidate as of this writing. still to come -- if you can't trust those lying eyes, what can you trust? >> does seeing this devastation change your opinion at all on climate change, mr. president? >> no. >> the california wildfires couldn't do it.

historic hurricanes couldn't either. can a dire new report from the president's own administration convince him that climate change is real? the timing of its release should tell you everything. that's next. now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it? you'd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. i'm regret that. with new car replacement, if your brand-new car gets totaled, liberty mutual will pay the entire value plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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a new federal report is sounding the alarm on inaction surrounding climate change. predicting that our economy could take a serious hit if we don't take more preventive measures. the report compiled by 13 federal agencies, warns that the damage caused by climate change could cost the u.s. hundreds of billions of dollars and could knock off a whopping 10% of the size of the u.s. economy by the end of the century. and as you may know president trump has seemed to shrug off warnings about this issue in the past. >> so, obama is talking about all of this with the global warming and -- a lot of it is a hoax, it's a hoax, it's a monday i had-making industry, it's a hoax, a lot of it. >> i have a strong opinion, i want a great climate. >> i'm not a big believer in man-made climate change. there could be some impact, but i don't believe it's, devastating impact. >> there is a cooling and there's a heating. >> i'm not denying climate change. but it could very well go back.

you know we're talking about -- >> well that's denying it. >> they say that we had hurricanes that are far worse than what we just had with michael. >> who say that? >> people say. >> what about the scientists who say it's worse than ever? >> you have to show me scientists because they have a very big political agenda. >> i can't bring them in. >> scientists also have a political agenda. >> but wait, there's more. >> you can't use hairspray. because hairspray is going to affect the ozone. i'm trying to figure out, i'm in my room in new york city, and i want to put a little spray, so that i can -- right? [ applause ] [ laughter ] >> right? but i hear they don't want me to use hair spray, they want me to use the pump because the other one, which i really like better than going bing, bing, bing, and then it comes out in big globs and it's stuck in your hair and you say, oh my god, i got to

take a shower again, my hair is all screwed up, right? i want to use hairspray. >> meanwhile, the new report came just days after the president tweeted this. quote brutal and extended cold blast could shatter all records. whatever happened to global warming? to be clear, it was only cold in the northeast and actually the rest of the united states had a warmer-than-usual thanksgiving. but john than swann, you also interviewed the president about climate change. >> a few weeks after the "60 minutes" interview. week or two. my colleague, jim vand did der and i interviewed president trump we wanted to have documents with us. she said who is "they" but she didn't have the report we brought with us the report from his own government scientists, last year's report which says exactly this. unanimous, basically, that human

beings are the predominant cause of climate change over the last half century. and we said to him, mr. president, these are your scientists. you oversee these people. he said yeah, well we disagree. and he said, i think the climate goes like this. and he did the hand motion. and and then jim said, well i mean who do you listen to on this? these are your scientists, are you going to fire them? he said no, they can put out whatever report they want, but i'm going to be the decider so no matter what reports are put in front of him. this is like theology. he believes what he believes and no amount of evidence is going to shift it. no. >> so as long as the president is in office, we will doing anything monumental on climate change in the u.s. >> i think that's one of the safest predictions you'll ever make, kasie. >> i don't know about that. so senator mac macie hirono hasd

there's a lot of political appointees who are impeding the work of. and macie hirono has asked the general counsel and the inspector general to investigate these claims. i know that the senate doesn't have power right now, democrats don't have the power in the senate right now. >> i'm not saying it won't be oversight but trump's not going to lift a finger. >> or would he sign anything on this issue, either. tiffany cross, rick tyler, thank you for your insights. jonathan swann, stick around. and senator angus king will stop by. "the new york times" magazine robert draper on his in-depth piece on nancy pelosi. and as always, the kasie dvr, our producers watch the sunday shows so you don't have to. kasie d.c. back after this. your insurance company won't replace

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>> the president has said that the intel community doesn't have to conclusions, they just have feelings. >> the c.i.a. doesn't do feelings. >> the president is being dishonest with the american people. >> how could this have happened without the prince being involved? >> intelligence i've seen suggests that this was ordered by the crown prince. >> if there are indicators that the prince was involved in this murder, then we need absolutely consider further action. >> now the congress has got to stand up and hopefully they will. >> welcome back to kasie d.c. joining me, national political reporter for axios, jonathan swann and senior reporter for the "washington post," paul kane and erica warner reporter for the "washington post" and in nashville, presidential historian and msnbc contributor john meechum. thank you all for being here tonight. and we hear at kasie d.c. hope everyone had a great thanksgiving. and to quote president trump in 2013, happy thanksgiving to all, even the haters and losers among

you. the president kept to a variation of that holiday tradition. this year tweeting quote happy thanksgiving to all. but what followed was not so traditional. the president tweeted throughout thanksgiving, slamming supreme court chief justice john roberts and the u.s. court of appeals for the ninth circuit before warning that there could be quote bedlam, chaos, injury and death at the southern border. all of that was followed by a thanksgiving teleconference with members of the military where things quickly turned political. here's what he said in response to an air force brigadier general david lyons who said troops are working to keep isis and the taliban off our shores. >> well you said it better than anybody could have said. keep them away from our shores, that's why we're doing the strong borders, you probably see over the news what's happening in our southern border. and our southern border territory. large numbers of people and in many cases we have no idea who they are and in many cases they are not good people.

they're bad people. large numbers of people are forming at our border and i don't have to even ask you, i know what you want to, do you want to make sure that you know who we're letting in and we're not letting in anybody, essentially because we want to be very, very careful. we got a lot of bad court decisions from the ninth circuit, which has become a big thorn in our side. we always lose and then you lose again and again and then you hopefully win at the supreme court which we've done. >> and here's part of his conversation with lieutenant nick hartman of the u.s. coast guard stationed in southwest asia. >> and what do you see in the region? what's going on in the region? how are they feeling about things? how are they feeling about trade? because you know trade, for me is a very big subject all over, we've been taken advantage of for many, many years by bad trade deals we don't have any good trade deals how are you finding things in the region, nick? >> mr. president, from our perspective out on the water,

sir, we're seeing that there is an abundance of trade happening in the region. >> the president ended that teleconference with a round of questions from reporters, during which he seemed to side with the saudi crown prince, instead of with his own intelligence community. when it came to the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi. and finally he was asked what he's thankful for. >> what are you most thankful for, mr. president? >> for having a great family, and for having made a tremendous difference in this country. i've made a tremendous difference in the country. this country is so much stronger now than it was when i took office, that you wouldn't believe it. >> i think he's thankful for himself. john meechum, i think this calls, this calls for -- your learned perspective. on what we saw play out on thanksgiving. i was actually working on thanksgiving. i walked into the office and turned on the tv and was a little astonished and what then

unfolded over the course of the following couple of hours. >> well, i think it's, yet another manifestation of a strategy and so far as the president has a strategy, which is constant entertainment. constant diversion, constant talking, constant performance. it's almost as though there's no such thing as an unbroadcast moment. i don't know how people in my line of work are going to do their work in five, ten, 20 years, because is there anything we don't know? is there any thought he has not expressed if so, it's going to be a hell of a thing to figure out what that is. but you know, i think he does think in terms of audience, as opposed to country. i think he, and i think the professional wrestling analogy is really important here. he needs some people to boo him and he knows that's part of it. and he wants the people cheering for him. and he understands that the basic attention span for most of the country is not very vast. and so, if he wants to change the subject, he knows how to do

it. >> so jonathan swann, was this functionally the president's attempt to compete with the macy's day parade? >> no, this is just what he is. and what he does. the funny thing when you talk to people who spend a lot of time with the president in the white house, a private conversation with the president, is almost indistinguishable from one of his monologues at a rally. you might have some more expletives thrown in in the private conversation. but it's basically this adventure through different topics, whatever he is seen on tv that morning. whoever he's picked a fight with. >> i like your hand motions tonight. >> and honestly, same thing when you talk to people who have to brief him. there is, and foreign officials, especially. there is no point going in with an agenda. because the agenda is whatever he's going to want to talk about. and so conversation -- you know as described to me by one person who spent a lot of time with him is -- you're listening to him and you're sort of -- waiting for an opportunity to throw in

your little bit in these little gaps between sentences. this is just authentic trump. it's what he does. >> it's just -- does he talk any differently to a navy admiral or a coast kbard lieutenant than he does his 12-year-old son, barron? does he -- it almost feels like. >> there's not much mod lags. >> well kasie, as you mentioned it's kind of unusual and of course everything about the trump presidency is unusual to have a president when asked what he's thankful for, that he goes to his family and then himself. i mean it should -- >> fair enough on family. but himself? >> exactly. people serving our country. >> he was just on the phone with military leaders. >> an excellent point. let's talk very quickly. i want to talk about what's going on at the border, we did hear about jamal khashoggi and many members of congress in the dvr. what do you think congress is going to do potentially. it did sound like there's consensus rejecting where the president is on this. >> the consensus is that they

disagree with him. they don't agree with his position, that that the crown prince has no real -- maybe he did it, maybe he didn't. they disagree with that what type of action are we looking at? lindsey graham was talking about a sense of the senate resolution. >> essentially nothing. >> it's varying shades of the trade dispute and other issues where he does something and they don't like it and it goes against everything they've always stood for and yet the most they can muster is -- a symbolic vote of some kind if that. >> which amounts to a rhetorical slap on the wrist. we're following this ongoing situation at the southern border of the united states. today the customs and border protection agency temporarily closed the world's largest land border crossing. a pathway that leads to san diego. dozens of migrants waiting to claim asylum and desperate to enter the u.s. rushed the border to no avail. some of those migrants were met with cans of teargas thrown by american border agents. the image that you see here show

as mother grabbing her children as they ran away from the grass today in tijuana, mexico. customs acknowledged the incident in a tweet saying several migrants quote threw projectiles and they only used teargas because they feared for their agents' safety. jon meachum i want to go back to you on this. i'm hoping to put this in perspective, i mean these images of us teargassing, the child is wearing a diaper. one of our previous guests compared this to the separation crisis and clearly the migrants, according to our hans nichols did not penetrate the border with the united states. we've had episodes of grappling with immigration in our past. but this is very difficult to see. >> it's very difficult and it's the actualization, the manifestation of the climate of fear that the president may not have created, but he certainly exacerbated and has perpetuated.

since really from the very beginning. the moment in trump tower where he referred to immigrants, some immigrants as rapists coming from mexico. you can't say we weren't warned about this particular tendency of the president, a persistent tendency, to play to ancient fears, in american life, of the "other." this began in 1798. john adams, alien and sedition acts, this has been a persistent theme. 1924, we basically, we imposed national, nationality quotas which made it very difficult for immigration, for immigrants to come in in the middle part of the century. that didn't change until 1965. what you see here, no matter what the merits of this particular action, on the part of the agents was, is it's going to be seen in the country in the context of the rhetoric and increasingly the reality of what the president has said about people who are trying to make a

better life. >> jonathan swann, how are, how is this going to be looked at inside the white house? we know there has been some conflict between john kely, kirsten nielson, in the event there was a claim that a migrant attempted to assail a member of cbp. and john kelly and kifristen nielson seemed to think there was no authority for this kind of thing, but the president ultimately won the day. >> kirsten nielson has had this from almost the moment she was sworn in. before she was sworn in trump started to rant she was weak on the border and he was hearing from people on tv from ann coulter and others that she was a bush appointee and she was soft. i think we talked about this before. any time trump is in one of these private conversations and hears some legal justification for why something can't be done

or a policy explanation it's like waving a red flag in front of him. he doesn't want to hear it. he wants blood force down there. he wants the border completely militarized. >> so these pictures are going to be pictures he's going to want to see. >> when the caravans first started appearing on fox news, people around trump recognized it for the political gift they thought it was. that it was seen as a political gift in his orbit. and trump himself viewed it as that. >> does this sort of exacerbation and continuation of that, does this continue to play into their hands? do you think? in their view? >> up until the point at which the u.s. border is breached. and then it becomes in trump's mind, the exact opposite. it becomes a sign that he's weak. if things are happening on u.s. soil or near the u.s. border, that's where it actually becomes a test of his own strength. and that's why you're seeing these quite extreme reactions from him. >> let's underscore these are

refugees, they are human beings, not just political prawns. lawmakers are stuck in a lose-lose situation, face a partial government shutdown or bow to demands from the other side of the aisle. the threat of a shutdown was softened this summer when congress passed a deal to fund 75% of the government until next fall but the deadline for a partial shutdown is looming, two weeks away and this week, president trump kept open the possibility of having a spending fight over border security. >> down over this wall in september? >> could happen. yeah. over border security. >> the wall is just a part of border security. very important part. probably the most important part but could there be a shutdown? there certainly could. and it will be about border security. of which the wall is a part. >> so paul kane, erica warner, are we going to shut down or not? how is december going to go for all of us here sitting at this table? >> we don't know. everything depends on trump and what he can live with and what

he wants to sign or won't sign. i think that we're seeing happening at the border right now probably increases chances that there could be a shutdown. maybe substantially. various other factors also do that that you have house republicans, about to lose power this is their last chance to throw down on this issue. an issue where trump has not fulfilled what a central campaign promise. right now trump and democrats are far apart and it's hard to see how they bridge that. >> if he has any chance of getting any additional funding for this wall, it's while republicans control both chambers. >> because it's never going to happen next year. >> nancy pelosi is as speaker, assuming she is speaker will get to that later, assuming she's speaker, the democrats are never going to put that kind of wall funding in a spending bill on the house side. so this might be the only chance he has. but it is a really risky move. >> well buckle up.

much more to come here on kasie d.c. after the break i'm joined by senator angus king. i'll ask him what he thinks is the most important area of investigation when it comes to president trump. and late they are hour, al franken breaks his silence, going public this thanksgiving with his thoughts on the #metoo movement that cost him his dream job. back after this. with my bladder leakage, the products i've tried just didn't fit right. they were too loose. it's getting in the way of our camping trips. but with a range of sizes, depend fit-flex is made for me. with a range of sizes for all body types, depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit.

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sits on the intelligence and the armed services committee. senator, thank you so much for being here in studio on thanksgiving weekend. great to see you. >> always a pleasure. >> let's start with i know you talked about this this morning, but jamal khashoggi and the c.i.a. assessment that in fact mohammed bin salman was ultimately responsible for his killing in that consulate in istanbul. the president has said that he is siding with saudi arabia. what in your view should the senate do about that? >> well i think we need to dig deeper into it. there was a briefing before the holiday. on this subject with the c.i.a. and the intelligence committee. which i sit on. but i can't tell you what was in that briefing. there have been public reports to me there's plenty in the public record that indicates it's highly unlikely, 99%, that mbs was behind this. something like this. something of this major consequence isn't going to

happen without his knowing. >> so if mbs doesn't know about it it doesn't happen. >> yeah, he's in total control. he's the guy that locked up the rest of his family in the ritz and started a war in yemen. went to war in yemen. he's doing things on his own. and the guy who we're sanctioning by the way, the treasury department. is his right-hand man. who tweeted last summer, i don't do anything, i don't do anything on my own, i only work for the king and the crown prince. i mean -- it doesn't pass the straight face test that mbs wasn't involved in this. and i think the president's statement that you know, the feelings of the c.i.a., the c.i.a. doesn't do feelings. they do assessments of facts. and i hope that this week we can have a broader briefing from the c.i.a. and we'll get more information on this to a broader group of senators. >> so more than just the intelligence committee?

>> correct. >> what are the tools at your disposal. it seems based on what we've heard from republicans this morning. that there is consensus, that people want to punish perhaps saudi arabia. but the question is one of degree. and is there anything that can be done? >> the sanctions -- it's very interesting to read the document from the treasury department from november 15th. that sanctions, 15 saudi arabia s sens, including mb s's right-hand man, it's very dem damning, i wish the president had read that before he made the statement that he did last week. what can we do? sanctions could go all the way to the top. there's all kinds of relationships with saudi arabia. arms sales and a lot of things that could be on the table. the president makes a point, saudi arabia is an important ally, they're a counterweight to iran. they may be involved in hopefully trying to resolve the israeli/palestinian conflict. they can be a good ally. but my problem with the president's statement was, he

made it look easy. that you know, there's no real issue here. they killed a journalist and -- but they're an important ally. this is a tough, tough call. and i think there are things we can do, even with an ally, that indicate our, that this isn't the way we think the world should be run, short of, reaching the relationship all together. >> you're saying that that perception in and of itself is a terrible problem? >> i think the perception that they're getting a pass is, is terrible. for the country and for the rest of the world. it's, it's a, a you know, a get out of jail free card for despots all over the world who are aren't too crazy about journalists. >> certainly the publisher of the "washington post" agrees with you on that let's switch gears slightly. there's a couple things still to do in this congress before it wraps up. one of which is the aversion of a potential of a partial government shutdown. you have to pass a spending bill

and there's been some talk among democrats that they want to attach legislation to protect the special counsel robert mueller. jeff merkley was on the show last week. seemed to acknowledge that he would perhaps vote to shut down the government if it didn't include such a provision. is that your position as well? would you vote against this funding bill if it doesn't include protections for robert mueller? >> no. no, i think there are ways to protect robert mueller and i think there are ways to do that. there's a bipartisan bill out of the judiciary committee that mitch mcconnell could bring to the floor this week if he chose. i think there is a vehicle. i think shutting down the government should not be a regular practice to get what you want on policy. some kind of policy grounds. it never works, it doesn't further anybody's goal. so i wouldn't, i wouldn't go there. now the question of border security, i think it's really important, kasie, nobody is in favor of open borders. i've never heard anybody say we want to open borders. i voted in 2013, along with most of the democratic caucus and a

lot of republicans, 68 votes for a comprehensive immigration package that had a huge border security provision in it the biggest one that's ever been before the congress. it passed the senate by two-thirds. john boehner never brought it up in the house, so it didn't go anywhere, that would be the law today it would take care of a lot of these issues. >> that still would have been in exchange for other changes to immigration law that would have legalized undocumented immigrants. >> my understanding is that in the bill the senate is talking about, the homeland security bill, there's a $1.5 billion for border security. the question isn't border security, the question is how do we do it and do it most effectively, and is a wall that costs $20 million a mile really the right answer? and i think most people, and i haven't found anybody in congress either party, who says by golly, we got to build that wall. there may be a few, but i haven't run across them. >> president trump seems to be in the minority there. let me frame the question that way, do you think it's worth shutting down the government

partially over keeping extra billions of dollars from the president's wall funding? >> you're putting, he's the one that's shutting it down. we pass a budget bill that has $1.5 or $2 billion, or whatever it is for border security, and he says that's not enough. i want my wall. i'll veto the bill. let's be clear about whose responsibility this is. it's not the congress's responsibility to pass a bill that the president, because the president stamps his foot and says, this is what i want. if the government shutdown happens, over this issue, it will be on the president. >> do you think that senate democrats will give more than the $1.4 billion that's been in there for the wall? >> i have no idea. i haven't talked in detail. i think that's a big number, you know. we're already spending a lot of money on the wall. i mean on the border. and border security. we've increased the cpd along the border. we've done a lot of beefing up of the fences and there are in fact, pieces of wall where they

are appropriate. so i don't think there's much appetite for increasing that much beyond the billion and a half level. i'd be surprised if that were the case. and again, the issue isn't border security. the issue is, this wall. and most people think that's just not a good use of money, time, effort or political capital. >> fair enough. before i let you go, house democrats about to get subpoena power, adam schiff over at the intelligence committee. new-found power to look into money laundering, other issues, what would you like to see house democrats explore in what investigations would you like to see them launch on the trump administration? >> i'm hesitant to comment on that because i'm not a member of the house nor a democrat. >> just trying. >> i think there are things that need to be investigated. i'm focused on completing our investigation of the senate intelligence committee which is proceeding on a bipartisan basis. i hope we can continue to do that. we're already maybe 80% through. we're working on the collusion

issue now. we're still calling witnesses. we're still focused on that. that's where my attention is. i, i do hope, though, that the house doesn't do a kind of benghazi in reverse. remember all of those -- hearings that went on and on and really, never reached any conclusion. i think it would be a mistake and here i am advising the democrats. something i said i wouldn't do. but to pile on in a sense, i think that would, i think that would undermine the importance of what they're doing. i think adam schiff is going to be a strong chair of the committee. i think he understands that. he's going to focus on important issues. >> senator angus king, thank you so much for your time. great to have you. still to come -- nancy pelosi poised to take the speaker's gavel one more time? next, i'm going to talk to the "new york times" magazine's robert draper, about his new in-depth piece on pelosi, that includes a look on how she plans to deal with a surge of young

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as democrats prepare to retake the house in a little more than a month, they are still looked in an internal

battle over who should lead the party. the center of the fight is nancy pelosi, the former house speaker who is facing resistance from some fellow democrats over her plan to reclaim the gavel. just this week, nine democrats on the bipartisan problem solvers caucus vowed to with hold their votes for pelosi unless she agrees to overhaul certain house rules. pelosi's battle for the speak speakership is a subject of the recent "new york times" feature by robert draper entitled "nancy pelosi's last battle." i quite enjoyed rereading this article on paper for once. thanks for being here. robert i'm interested, your perspective having spent so much time with her in the context of this. we often talk about her political prowess, her vote-counting, ability. how much of that did you find to really be the case as you were sort of talking with her, what do you believe these people who say that she should be thrown out without giving a reason as

to why? >> for one thing, kasie, she doesn't seem terribly worried about that. she didn't then and she doesn't now. she understands leverage and she understands she doesn't have quite as much of it as she did before. other people are testing their own leverage. it's that season to dole out favors and, what's notable is when people are coming into talk to her. the one thing they're not saying is, i'm going to run against you. no one has done that that's a very, very notable omission. i mean given that heath schuler in 2010 picked up the phone and said i'm going to run against you. but absent someone to go against nancy pelosi it puts the dissidents in a bind. no one is quite sure what would come after pelosi. >> you had an interesting description of how nancy pelosi gives speeches, in sort of her tangents and you know kind of squaring the circle and she's kind of rambles in a way, that's

a criticism that's leveled at her by some of the people who say we need somebody else in the cable news era of donald trump. how does she answer those charges? >> she, in a couple of different ways, kasie. for one thing, she reminds everyone that she's a master of the inside game. but what we're talking about here is the outside game and she's a bit distinguieficient i. so was tip o'neill, there have been male leaders who have not faced this criticism. in the age of trump it's an important thing to have, to be a communicator. what she seems more than willing to do is to cede that to people like adam schiff to eric swalwell and other members of the democratic caucus who are good at that. enjoy doing it and i don't think she feels at all that that's in her purview, to do that to be an effective leader of the party. >> jon meachum, robert draper mentions tip o'neill, one of the other things in a his piece that stuck out to me when she was first elected, the attitude was

rather that you know all the men thought they should get a list of the things that women wanted done and they would take care of them. no need necessarily for women to be running the show. what's your view of nancy pelosi as an historic figure? she is the most powerful woman ever in american politics. >> she's the highest ranking woman in the constitutional order. she was third in line to the presidency. and i think we'll go down forever as that. it's an interesting, it's a sign actually of the relative, i hate to put it this way, but incision, relative incision of the house itself. that that's not more fully appreciated. justice o'connor, justice ginsberg, justice kagan, justice sotomayor, they trip off the tongue. speaker pelosi, for whatever reason. think it's just because there are 435 of them, it's harder to remember her in the popular recollection. but you know, my sense is in an

era which is about turn-out and base politics, why would you not want someone who knows their way around, is clearly skilled fundraiser and can make things work there. the case against her seems to me to be almost the kind of facile one. >> paul kane, what's your take on that? >> what do you make of this last-minute bipartisan problem-solvers caucus, little rebellion, which is different nan the previous rebellion. >> the problem-solvers are this group of republicans and democrats, who are trying to negotiate rules changes inside the house of representatives. they are the leverage folks at this point. don't seem as big a problem for pelosi. they look like the type of people who are trying to come in and say we've got the votes for you, we're going to give us the votes, but just give us the reason. in negotiating you want to be

either in early or in late. to get the most leverage and they're looking to be the late-comers. >> the last-minute? >> yeah. erica warner one thing she has done is a lot of the new women members who had said on the trail they were going to vote against her, some of them have changed their tune slightly. she seems to have done a good job of convincing them that it's important that we keep a woman in this job. >> she as we all watched her do what she is best at, which is lock up support for something, in this case herself, she went into the thanksgiving holiday kind of picking people off individually. eliminating potential challenger. i think the point that you and john as well made is a good one. in that you have some people who are calling for change, kind of for the sake of change. but aren't articulating what policies, what they would actually put in place. >> robert draper, before we go, would you bet against nancy pelosi? >> no, not a chance.

god lord. >> all right. i think is an excellent, exclamation point. robert draper. thank you. great piece. jon meachum. thanks to you as well. we always appreciate your wisdom in these trying times. >> it's a sign of how much trouble we're in right there. >> indeed. up next, as kasie d.c. continues, i'll talk to one of the freshmen democrats who will decide nancy pelosi's fate. we're going talk to congressman elect joe negeuse.

back to one of the top stories that we've been following, the developing and hostile situation at the u.s./mexico border. customs and border protection temporarily closing one of the largest land crossings between tijuana, mexico and san diego. after a group of mig rapts who had been waiting to seek asylum rushed the area. joining me is democratic congressman elect joe recently represent colorado's second district. i want to start with the night's terrible news, you are the son of immigrants yourself. and i'm wondering your reaction to the trump administration's decision to close this crossing, and also, apparently the cbp's decision to fire teargas at some of these asylum seekers? >> well thank you for having me, kasie, on your program.

i share in the outrage that so many americans are feeling tonight. as we see these images from our southern border as you mentioned, my parents are immigrants, refugees from east africa and my wife and i are the parents of a 3-month-old watching today those images of seeing toddlers being teargassed by our government on our southern border. it's hard not to see those images and not be brought to tears. think what's happening is inhumane. it's immoral. it's unjust. and our congress needs to ultimately provide a check on this president and draconian way in which he is enforcing our immigration laws. >> speaking of being a check on the president you're going to be part of a new democratic house of representatives that's already looking at investigating president trump in various ways. how far do you think these investigations should go? do you think that the leaders who had expressed concern about him going too far are kind of in the, are they in the right? or do you think that democrats

need to be more aggressive than their posture suggests? >> well look, i think the investigation should go where the facts lead us. i watched chairman cummings, or soon-to-be chairman eliji cummings address this precise question. and i think his take was the right one, was that ultimately the american people spoke resoundingly this november that they want congress to provide a check on this president and the administration that they want thoughtful investigations that are handled professionally. this congress, the 115 th congress abdicated its constitutional duties of oversight. i think the next congress needs to be prepared to do the opposite. to ultimately hold this administration accountable. there are a wide variety of investigations that i imagine the house will engage in and those will be important investigations for us to get to the bottom of the various scandals that have taken place over the better part of the last two years. >> based on what you know now,

do you think there's evidence that would support impeaching president trump? >> i do. i think there's sufficient evidence in the public square to indicate that this president has violated the constitution. and that ultimately he's committed high crimes and misdemeanors that would warrant impeachment. there was a vote on the house floor over a year ago in which representative green i believe from texas essentially initiated the process by which a full investigation into whether the president has ultimately committed impeachable offenses could take place. i supported it then and i support it now. >> do you call on the leaders of the house of representatives to begin impeachment proceed sngs. >> well look, i think it's an important conversation. that obviously our caucus is going to be having over the course of the next many weeks. and obviously many months that the 116th congress takes effect. i have not yet been sworn in. still congressman elect. so i'm looking forward to having

those conversations with my colleagues. >> you will be of course here this week voting in caucus. to select the next speaker of the house. i know you're on the record saying you would support nancy pelosi for speaker. if somebody were to run against her, would you hear them out? >> i would -- i mean i'm unaware of anybody who will be running or who has indicated that they would run against leader pelosi. so not sure about the hypothetical. i would say look, i support her, i think we need steady leadership. i think she provides that over the course of the last several weeks, she's taken a number of steps to insure that there will be a broad representation at the leadership table. sort of various interests within the caucus as a member of the progressive caucus, something i was passionate about. and encouraged by was leader pelosi's signal that there would be representation on key exclusive committees in congress of the progressive caucus and there will be a diversity office for the first time in the 116th congress so i'm proud to support her and to cast my vote for her

on wednesday. >> congressman-elect joe neguse looking forward to seeing you in the hallways here in d.c. >> thank you. when we come back, al franken breaks his silence on the #metoo movement. that's next on kasie d.c. man: tom's my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house... tom: it's a $10 cover? oh, okay. didn't see that on the website. he's been acting more and more like his dad. come on, guys! jump in! the water's fine! tom pritchard. how we doin'? hi, there. tom pritchard. can we get a round of jalapeño poppers for me and the boys, please? i've been saving a lot of money with progressive lately, so... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.

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former senator al franken who resigned from congress last year amid sexual harassment claims is breaking his silence on the #metoo movement. in the thanksgiving facebook post, franken writes i've spent a lot of time over the past year thinking about the broader conversation we've been having about the experience of women in this country. i no he for many people this issue raises a lot of powerful and painful feelings. this conversation can also be incredibly complicated. i don't think it's my place to weigh in on all the debates, but i will continue to listen and learn. as we gather around the table this year, we have a lot to celebrate, including a whole bunch of thrilling democratic victories and there's so much work left to do. i still miss being in the fight every day, while i'm not running for anything, i hope in the next year i'll have the chance to help make a difference again. joining our conversation at the table. abc news capitol hill reporter leanne caldwell.

leanne you and i have been covering this issue on capitol hill for quite some time now this certainly sounds like a rehabilitation, beginning of a comeback for al franken. >> yeah, kasie, first i can't believe it's been a year. it seems like an eternity, but also it's gone by so fast. but yeah he indicated one thing in that facebook post that was so interesting to me is how he mentioned how he's been talking to so many people from minnesota and elsewhere around the country. that who have thanked him for his work. and he seems like he's ready to come back on the national scene. he said he's not running for anything. maybe now. that doesn't mean in the future that he won't. what sort of role he wants to have in the democratic party but he wants one. and soon. >> one of the interesting things to me is there has, i feel like if you talk to some of the women senators about this privately, they feel as though there was backlash inside the democratic party to the way that they you know essentially pushed franken out. >> especially with the donors, the donors were not happy that

franken was pushed out. he was a favorite, especially since he had just started emerging on the national scene in a sense. he's, he went outward from his local minnesota issues. he started making a name for himself as a senator. and the progressives loved him. >> at the same time, eric, there's also, that can sort of rightfully raise questions about double standard. saying if there was a democrat who had bad behavior, it would be considered to be fine. whereas if it was a republican, that's a difficult line to walk. >> i think his case, particularly raised the issue of how the #metoo movement kind of paint with a broad brush and there are large degrees of difference. in the wrongdoing that we see. his posts did seem like a bid for rehabilitation. at some point. i think one question, as paul and i were discussing earlier, what would he run for? he's saying he's not running for office.

there isn't necessarily an office that he could run for. i mean i suppose president would be one. i'm not suggesting i would -- >> there's not like the open seat in his state that is obvious at this point. >> here's my take on this issue. this has been over a year since "new york times" and the "new yorker" broke the harvey weinstein stories. well over a year since other members fell. year since the franken story has broke. they've already given out journalistic awards to people here at this table for the #metoo coverage. and congress still has not passed the law to change how they deal with sexual harassment. then the taxpayer-funded payouts are still the law of the land. nothing has actually changed on the hill. and we're a year later. >> and president trump has proved that in politics, though, it's possible voters won't punish you for stuff like this. >> so long as in trump's mind, and he's not afraid, well he

won't say this publicly, but he tells people this privately, as long as you deny everything, you know trump's whole thing is deny everything. no matter what you're accused of, just deny it. >> if you admit it, you're toast, so deny it. >> that's the trump school of #metoo. on that happy note, when we return, what to watch for in the week ahead.

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before we go, let's talk about what everybody is watching for in the week ahead. leanne caldwell what are you looking for? >> the closed-door caucus

meeting to elect nancy pelosi is this week. it's wednesday and thursday, it's the first of the two-step process, i think it will be a good indicator of what opposition she still has to overcome, to be speaker. >> a look at our big story of the week, erica? >> there are two weeks left to fund the government before a december 7th shutdown deadline. so i will be looking for negotiations potentially to progress on that front. >> fingers crossed. paul kane? >>en on the leadership racings some of the down-ballot races are interesting where the newer, younger ambitious democrats get to run and there's a race for caucus chair which is an internal cbc, congressional black caucus vote between barbara lee and jeffreys. >> global markets the most important thing this week will be trump's meeting with president xi of china. the thing that i'll be watching is will xi come to the table with a sufficiently significant concession, so that trump puts on pause, the trade war, in same

way he did with europe. puts it in the freezer and says we're not going to ratchet it up to 25% tariffs in january. >> and i am watching for what those images at the border, how that's going to play out on the hill this week. that does it for us tonight on kasie d.c. back with you same time next week. for now, good night from washington. welcome, michelle obama! >> michelle obama has returned to the spotlight. >> when she lifts her voice, people listen. >> from her hummen roots in chicago. >> michelle is south side to the core. >> the girl from the south side can become first lady. all things are possible. >> her journey to the white house embodied the american dream. >> if you can dream with me, then you know there is no other choice. other than barack obama. >> will was no going back, a new day had dawned. >> she