show. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. >> it's 4:00 in new york. as most americans started the day today counting points or steps or carbs, donald trump started his day by counting the hundreds of former campaign staffers who haven't been interviewed by special counsel robert mueller. and a pair of tweets so detached from reality that will debunk them before we put them on the screen. the president falsely claimed that robert mueller has conflicts of interest. oddly cited campaign staffers who want to be called to test by before the special counsel and demanded they investigate democrats. when mueller does his final report, will he be covering all of hispreamble? will he be recommending action on all of the crimes of many kinds from those on the other side? whatever happened to podesta?

and will he be putting in statements from hundreds of people closely involved with my campaign who never met, saw or spoke to a russian during this period? so many campaign workers, people inside from the beginning. ask me why they have not been called. they want to be. there was no collusion and mueller knows is. now the president is counting the number of staffers who did not have contact with russians during the campaign. a political first, no doubt. but not the most ominous sign for a clearly rattled president. among the known/unknowns in the mueller probe, the progress of paul manafort's cooperation with mueller is expected today at any time. it becomes ten days after mueller requested an extension on the report raising key questions. what was mueller waiting for? trump's written testimony? submitted just days ago? testimony from another key witness? an indictment that involved manafort's testimony? or something else entirely. we could get that status report

and answers to some of those questions any time. then the roger stone ally. jerome corsi. he spent the weekend in talks over a plea deal related to his alleged contacts with wikileaks. corsi now says he's unlikely to take the plea that mueller's offering. but the talks alone should raise concerns in trump's inner circle that mueller may be closer to connecting the dots between the trump campaign and russia. then there's this from frequent trump defender alan dershowitz on what could pose the greatest political threat to the president of the mueller investigation. mueller's final report. >> i think the present is going to be devastating to the president and i know that the president seems already working on a response to the report. the president will say, ah, look, it's political. there's their account and this. our account and the american public will have to judge -- >> here to help us sort through the tea leaves, some of our favorite reporters and friends.

robert costa, for "the washington post" and moderator of "washington week." harry litman, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general. paul butler, former federal prosecutor, now georgetown law professor. and sam stein, politics editor for the daily beast. paul, we were talking before the show about how some of these contacts are confusing. corsi and credico and robert stone. but they are central to what "the washington post" once described as the beating heart of the mueller probe. the question of a conspiracy between russians and people in the president's orbit. explain. >> so the conspiracy that mueller seems to be focused on is the release of the hacked e-mails and whether high-level trump campaign officials knew about them. if they knew about them, that's collusion. if they were involved in coordinating their release in ways that supported the campaign, that's conspiracy. that's a federal crime. and so what mueller is

interested in is especially roger stone who predicted incredibly these in ways that were very helpful to the campaign. how did he know? that's what corsi is involved in. corsi and roger stone worked together. corsi also seemed to have known about these hacked e-mails. he had a relationship apparently with julian assange, the wikileaks dude. and so if there were any kind of coordinated releases of the e-mails that the president, then candidate donald trump knew about, that's an indictable offense. he wouldn't be indicted because mueller will follow the guidelines of the justice department. but the report, if that's true, would be incredibly damning. >> let me ask two dumb nonlawyer questions. would the president be an unindicted co-conspirator? >> that's kind of formal legal term that's discouraged because what happens is people are accused of crimes but because they're not indicted they never have a chance to defend

themselves. i think that mueller would probably not go that way, but nothing is to stop them from writing a report where he lays out everything he knows about what trump did, including if he thinks that trump is a felon. >> harry litman, let me ask you another dumb nonlawyer question. i followed the reporting over the weekend in "the washington post" and "the new york times" about corsi and nbc news has a new interview with him today where he says mueller's trying to get me to plead to knowingly lying. i'll not sign a statement saying i willingly and knowingly lied because i did not. he is someone who either is a pathological liar or who was intimately involved with assange. how does an investigationor sort of investigate and if necessary prosecute established liars? >> not a dumb question at all

and really down the middle. he came to everyone's attention with the birther conspiracy of john kerry and that's his job title and descriptions. conspiracy theorist. how do they do it? they have facts already so that they know things that have happened. they have e-mails as they do with corsi that give a real indication of what he knew and they press him on it. the account he's giving is a false one here. it's not a deal he's not taking. it's a deal that mueller has probably pulled from the table because he will not have a contract -- a plea agreement with someone who he doesn't think is being 100% honest with him. corsi has no doubt been given the chance to fess up everything. and he hasn't to the satisfaction of mueller and team and they are the ones who have likely said, sorry, see you in court. it's a long, more time-consuming process. and we need it in order to get

to stone, but we're not going to play around with you if we don't think you're being totally straight. >> robert costa, one of the men to whom the responsibility of spinning all of this falls to is rudy giuliani. you cover him closely. his public and private utterances have seemed to convey the following and jump in and correct me if i'm wrong. on the question of collusion, even if someone on the campaign was involved or in communications with the russians, they claim it's something anyone would have done and they have an acting attorney general who holds that philosophy for what is normal for campaign conduct. it is not. they've drawn a line around questions of obstruction and rudy giuliani said over the summer, it's not that he didn't obstruct justice, it's that a president can't obstruct justice. is there any sort of evolution in the president's legal team's position positions about the president's

legal exposeure? >> you foreshadowed the battle to come. talking to mayor giuliani over the last few weeks, you really get the sense the president's legal team right now is starting to mount its own defense of the coming mueller report to explain those incidents and those exchanges between the trump campaign and different people, different russians over the course of the 2016 race in their own terms. and they know this is going to be a legal battle as well as a political battle and it's on that political side especially where the trump lawyers right now are really trying to get ready. they don't know exactly what mueller has been told by witnesses. they don't know exactly what he has, but when it comes to roger stone or jerome corsi or the trump tower meeting they're mapping out their argument they'll make to the public. >> i heard from two sources close to rudy, six months ago, that the firewall for them politically speaking was not to avoid impeachment.that th

do you have any reporting that suggests those conversations and getting the prlt to warm up to that possibility is ongoing? >> the president's political circ cell talking about using the house democrats as a foil as they go into the 2020 presidential campaign. they're making that argument to the president and the white house feels they are in a better position having lawyer emet flood in there trying to protect executive privilege as house democrats prepare to take over. they know impeachments could be on the horizon, early 2019, but something that could happen at some point during the first term. what they're trying to do is rely on republicans to hold firm. and they like the senate republicans aren't moving right now in o legislation to protect robert mueller. >> let me play a place where emmett flood and his record of exerting aggressively executive privilege may not help the president. this is where alan dershowitz

thinks the president may be in trouble in the southern district of new york. >> i still think trump's greatest vulnerabilities do not lie with mueller. they lie in the southern district of new york because mueller's allegations have constitutional defenses whereas if there is any shenanigans having to do with business, they don't have constitutional defenses. >> i think donald trump might actually at some cellular level believe that to be true as well because he described the raid of his former attorney and fixer's office michael cohen as an attack on the nation, signaling that perhaps what sdny has is more perilous to him than what mueller might have. >> i'm glad you have two lawyers on this panel for this question. i agree with alan dershowitz is saying. team trump has already hinted the aggressive posture they'll take with regards to robert mueller and certing executive

privileg privilege. rudy giuliani said they will fight the release of the mueller probe on grounds of executive privilege. now that they have matt whitaker in the position of ag they have an ally in holding back the publication of that report. we may get in a situation where mueller finishes his work. it's done. hands it over to the attorney general and they try to sit on it and then we have an entirely separate legal fight. so there are going to be intense battles over executive privilege on the federal level all the while what's happening at the southern district is going to go on and deal far more on the minutia of trump's own finances. there are these two-prong issues. alan dershowitz probably has a right. >> can you explain? jump in and clean this up for sam and i, the nonlawyers here. but also talk about whether or not there are things the southern district of new york, crimes the president could be found to have committed. is there a statute of limitations? could he face the consequences for those crimes after he's done serving as president? >> you're both doing great as

nonlawyers. >> it's like lawyers legaling for dummies. >> i appreciate it. >> most have five or ten-year statute of limitations so that would be an issue. but the president's exposure in the southern district for those financial crimes, it's only deeper in a relative sense because again, he's got exposure in the mueller investigation as well. i don't think those constitutional defenses are going to fly. the only thing that he has going in his favor now is the department of justice policy that sitting presidents can't be indicted while in office. it doesn't mean that the report couldn't be used to indict them later. and so, you know, trump's been working in queens real estate, various foreign transactions for years. there's -- where there's smoke, there's fire. who knows what's -- >> it's an interesting point. all this talk about how trump may not run for re-election because he wants to get away from all of this. the one thing that may save him politically and legally is he's going to be a sitting president

and there's this entirely separate legal argument about indicting a sitting president. >> harry, i don't want to go too long between wise legal voices, and i also want to get you on the tea leaves. are we reading the wrong tea leaves with asking those questions about what might the delay of ten days for the manafort sentencing have had anything to do with? >> that's a really interesting point, and it should come up. maybe we'll know in 45 minutes. other than the suppositions you have, it's possible. the only other thing i could think of is that manafort was getting wiggly and mueller said to him, look, you know, finally you've got to be full and complete cooperator and we'll give you a final ten days. on the other points you've made, on statute of limitations, if it's conspiracy, it doesn't start. the clock doesn't start until the very end of the conspiracy. so that's one way to extend it for trump. the other is potentially a tolling agreement that some

defendants will enter into it. finally, i just wanted to concur with paul. giuliani and dershowitz are completely alone here. the notion that a president cannot commit obstruction of justice was put to rest with richard nixon himself and other cases. if they are really resting on that, they've got a lousy case on the facts. and if that's pressed in the courts, they will lose. >> all right. let me swing back to my political gurus. robert costa and sam stein. "the new york times" reporting over the weekend it's not just trump and house democrats crosshairs. his family is, too. the democrats are lying out lines of inquiry that could lead to not just mr. trump and white house aides but also to his immediate family. republicans returning to capitol hill next year may be forced to take a harder line toward the trump family. likely targets include not only the president's personal finances and the trump org but actions taken by don junior and eric and son-in-law jared

kushner during the 2016 campaign and its aftermath. >> this is a mess, a complete political mess for the president. it's one of the reasons you don't bring in your immediate family members onto your team because they can create serious conflicts and exposure problems. obviously the stuff that deals with the campaign is its own separate genre and don junior and the trump tower meeting is a huge problem for him. if you look separately at that in terms of what house democrats may go over. we're talking about ivanka's clothing line. things to do with mar-a-lago who jared kushner was meeting with. these are all potentially fruitful endeavors for house democrats to investigate. they're going to present trump with a real dilemma. how much do you bend over backwards to protect your kin and senior adviser/son-in-law and what kind of message does it send if you're willing to go to the mat for them you aren't for other people. this is a huge dilemma. it's an ethicist's nightmare and

what people warned about when he hired his daughter and son-in-law to be in positions. >> there's fatigue. nepotism was a giant story line during the transition when ivanka and jared had jobs that fall to far more far experienced individuals than jar ed or ivanka. and jared's access to classified information because of his still in progress background check. what do you make of the multiple generations ensnared in the mueller probe and based on this reporting would seem in congressional investigations. >> it could be a long, drawn out, brutal process for the members of the trump family that will come under the scrutiny of congressional democrats. having spent time talking to house democrats, they know that they're just not going to immediately move to impeach president trump. but they first want to do, whether it's elijah cummings, incoming chairman and oversight

committee where jerry nadler, incoming chairman of the judiciary committee, they're going to investigate and investigate even more. leader pelosi will have a balancing act trying to get things done like an infrastructure deal, a deal on immigration and try to work forward on policy while her own chairman and chairwomen are working together on investigations. and the trump family could take months of them being called up to capitol hill, private sessions, public sessions, subpoenas. this is not something that's just going to be a flurry of activity in the early part of 2019. >> let me just give you the last word and ask you what -- sort of the worst kept secret in washington is that donald trump jr. may have some exposure both from the committees in congress in which he testified and perhaps maybe under scrutiny in the mueller probe. how do congressional investigators coordinate? is doj a willing cooperator in investigations? >> they are a willing cooperatar as long as they get their way. they are willing to wait. the criminal prosecution, if there is one, should come first.

there is more rights that go to the accused person. so that's for mr. trump junior if he is charged. but it's the department of justice that leads the way. what's interesting, there's a potential clash between the politics and the law. what if the democrats think it's not in their best interest to impeach the president? he's not going to be convicted by the senate. so maybe they think it will be bad politically. but if the report is as bad as dershowitz who is talking to trump says it's going to be, their constitutional responsibility will be to impeach. >> there's going to be an immense, immense amount of pressure from the base of the democratic party to take a bite at that apple if the report is what dershowitz describes. it becomes a problem for pelosi. what does she do? take the temperature of the caucus? recognizing there could be a backlash or say the merit is there and we have to proceed? >> would be nice if we ponder the possibility that some

republicans would say the more sit there. after the break, a blockbuffblockbuff blockbuffer buster new report on the child separation policy sends donald trump over the edge. and one former immigration official's take on the latest human tragedy created by trump's fear mongering at the border. and he wades into a senate contest fraught with racial undertones and nasty campaigning. those stories coming up. ♪ hi. this is peggy. (vo) you do more than rescue pets when you share the love. you build families. get a new subaru, like the all new forester, and charities like the aspca can receive two hundred and fifty dollars from subaru. (avo) get zero percent during the subaru share the love event. and need money for your family? newday usa can help.

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i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. they issued an order without consult with the agencies who were responsible for carrying out that order. we take better care of people's

effects when we send them to jail than those children we took from their parents. these decisions were pushed down to the agencies without thinking through the ramifications or the potential harm. >> that was an interview from a "60 minutes" piece on the child separation policy at the border. one that got under donald trump's skin so quickly he responded on twitter just after that interview aired. the presidential tweet, which the white house has described as an official statement from the white house, is riddled with lies. here it is. 60 minutes did a phony story about child separation when they know we had the exact same policy as the obama administration. in fact, a picture of children in jails was used by other fake media to show how bad, cruel, we are. but it was in 2014 during o years. obama separated children from parents, as did bush because that is the policy and law. i tried to keep them together but the problem is, when you do

that, vast numbers of additional people storm the border. so with obama, separation is fine but with trump it's not. fake 60 minutes. donald trump is the only president ever to systematically separate migrant children from their parents as a stated policy. of deterrence. just so we don't forget, earlier this month, the department of health and human services said more than 100 children are still separated from their families. joining us now, daniel dale, washington bureau chief for the "toronto star." if you aren't following him on twitter, he's been tracking trump's lies since inauguration day. and rick wilson, mike lubica whose book comes out tomorrow and jackie allen, the author of "the washington post" power up newsletter. sam stein is still doing his time here at the table. let me start with you, daniel. first of all, what you do is truly a service in these times. so thank you. i want to ask you about that.

but get at this. get at just the projection, the sort of depravity of the lies about this cruel and inhumane policy. >> sure. so this was a policy that was proudly announced by the trump administration by then-attorney general jeff sessions. it was defended aggressively by various other officials that want to seem tough. this was something that they chose as not only an immigration strategy but more than anything, a political strategy. and then when they started taking fire over it, trump simply disowned it. he pretended he had no choice in the matter. said this is the law. it is not the law. he said obama did the exact thing. obama did not. it was a discretionary choice that trump made to routinely prosecute everyone found crossing the border illegally in a criminal court which resulted in routine separation. obama did occasion loally separ children from parents but not in this systematic way. trump is offering an alternative history to avoid facts and an

attempt to distance himself from his own policy. >> i guess he lies about everything and so it's hard, i think, for all of us. you do a better job than all of us combined, but it's hard to rank the sort of cruelty of the lies. but this one is clearly rooted in his vanity. he doesn't like the press that his cruel immigration policies are getting him. he didn't like that a news program like "60 minutes" ripped his policy. so that inspired the tweet. it's never the human suffering. how do you sort of prioritize the lies that you debunk and push out? >> well, i think the lies where he smears entire groups of people or entire institutions rank at the top for me in terms of institutions. when he lies about muslims, lies about hispanics, middle easterners or voter fraud where he's calling into question the essence of america's democracy. those rank at the top of the list for me. the ones most interesting to me are the more trumpian ones where

he's lying about nothing. for no apparent reason. every president lies when on the defensive when caught in a scandal or controversy. trump lies because he's a liar. and the crazyiest ones are when he -- like the one i cite as an example is when he made up a phone call from the ceo of the boy scouts of america. the head of the boy scouts called me and said i gave the greatest speech ever to the boy scout jamboree. >> we have to do a whole hour on this. a whole hour on -- >> absolutely. >> at the end of the year, we'll do the top ten lies of the year. i have you here and i have to ask you. i looked at hundreds of people on my staff who want to talk to mueller. he didn't have 100 staffers. he had seven. second, i googled trump and hundreds and the first thing that came up was thousands of muslims cheering on -- what is his thing with big numbers. the big number is the tell. it's always a lie when it's

dozens, hundreds or thousands. >> yeah, almost none of his numbers are correct. and so i fact check everything he says. so immediately when i go through the transcript, if there's a number, i google it and it's inevitably wrong. when you ask local officials, is it true 55,000 people were outside his rally in springfield, missouri, and the public information director says, there were 1,000 people outside the rally. so it's never right. >> the second thing that came up when i googled the numbers were all the fact checks about the numbers of crowd size and obsession. i'll leave it at that. i never covered the caravan. i didn't take his remarks two days before the midterms because they were so craven, so political. but how do you do a volume business of fact-checking for whom there is no bottom? >> daniel dale, who is great, by the way, and i leaned over to rick and said the great question

is you have to pick what hills you're going to fight for. it's a constant relentless battle to decide what are the things so valid that your hair ought to be on fire. >> you hear babies in cages -- >> these are vietnam pictures. >> laura bush compared them to japanese internment camps. this is a human tragedy. >> this is a shameful american moment. those children, those pictures are the pictures we saw at the end of the vietnam war. and, you know, i met a lot of guys like trump in sports. they just -- some of them just lie to stay in practice. you know, there's a famous line from an old boxing promoter who said yesterday i was lying. today i'm telling the truth. it doesn't work that way with this administration. yesterday i was lying and today i'm still lying. >> i don't know why the lies over the caravan and child separation policy and over the crisis happening right now at the border offend me so much more than all the others. everything is brutal. everything is disgusting and a

debasement of politics and a party we once were a part of. what do you make of sort of his honing in on a human tragedy. >> nicolle, i think this goes back to the fact this is an engineered set of tragedies. they did the child separation policy, the kids in cages policy as political theater. they do this as political theater. they ramped up the caravan as political theater as a shock and awe idea for the midterm elections to gin up the trump base. this is not just, you know, the terrible threat of little shoeless girl wearing a hello kitty backpack. oh, my god, whip out the teargas. but it's done methodically and cruelly and this is engineered by guys like steven miller and guys like steve bannon out there cheerleading for it and the trump media apparatus trying to turn legitimate refugee populations into an invading army in the -- with the language and scope of things that is as

shocking now as it could generally be. but it's because it's so deliberate. because the lies are in service to something so -- >> and some of his lies are victimless, right? some of them have victims. >> like his weight. he lied about his weight. >> some of them have victims. and some of the victims are 3-year-old kids. in this specific case, the protagonist of the "60 minutes" episode was a 3-year-old, 4-year-old kid separated from his parents for like 70 days. the psychological harm caused in that separation process will be with that child for the rest of his life. the piece looks at a policy that was implemented without any due diligence to the morality, the psychology and politics of it. it was a top-down policy put in place designed as a deterrent cooked up in some weird lab as a deterrent for refugees and immigration and the victims are all little kids who will never be the same psychologically because of what they did. >> let me ask you the question i

was going to ask rick. do you think -- i think that the bucket of immigration policies, that is the bucket in which we'll find the beginning of not being the country we thought we were. >> yes, and no. we've been a country with a horrific immigration history. even the refugee debates we turned away jews fleeing nazi-dominated europe who had come here on a boat and we sent them back to europe. we've had a bad history when it comes to immigration. what we're seeing now in my estimation is an administration that is actually owning it in a way that past administrations haven't. past administrations have done bad things and never really want tot own it as a policy. but this administration has weaponized immigration as a policy tool. what we have now is the caravan which is a group of impoverished migrants 2,000 miles from the border that suddenly becomes the most dire situation in all of america just a week before election day. that is what's new about this. >> we have to sneak in a break. when we come back, has donald trump's fear mongering over

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are you comfortable tear gassing children like what we saw -- >> they're not, as you know, they had to use because they were being rushed by some very tough people. and they used tear gas and here's the bottom line. nobody is coming into our country unless they come in legally. >> to hear donald trump tell it you'd think hundreds of stone-cold criminals tried to rush the border near san diego yesterday. look at the photos. see for yourself. that group includes men, women and several children. some of them trying to cross after being denied access to the port of entry where they could legally claim asylum. u.s. border patrol says people in the crowd tossed rocks at agents and that's why they used tear gas. that led to the shutdown of a major port of entry for more than six hours. the question now, how did we get

here? one former immigration chief under president obama answered that question. >> so this is really a crisis of the administration's own making. we have an orderly way of handling this flow of people. i really believe that we pushed those people up to the border itself by changing the rules midstream and it's an act of desperation. once they get there, border patrol has to take action to protect the border and protect the integrity of the border. so i stand by the border patrol's actions in terms of pushing the people back off but it's unfortunate came to this. >> jackie, i worked for a president, a republican president, who tried to pull his party along to pass comprehensive immigration reform and the votes weren't there. he had allies in the late ted kennedy and john mccain. do you find any resistance or discomfort among any republicans in the senate or the house to these images? >> we haven't seen much response today. we just saw lindsey graham last night immediately responding to the actions taken by the

military on the border and customs and border patrol, praising them for their work and saying that people shouldn't be blaming the president for what he's doing because look at what's going on. but as -- >> that's shocking. lindsey graham who was an ally of john mccain's, one of the most vocal advocates for comprehensive immigration reform. >> i think what americans really should be, especially trump supporters, people who, you know, don't quite see the inhumanity that's going on here, who maybe think that 3-year-olds need tear gas, what they should also be seeing is some of these political tactics the president is implementing also hurts americans. closing the san ysidro border, a border that's the most highly trafficked border between the u.s. and mexico is not good for the economy. there are tons of people going back and forth every day who aren't migrants. there are processes that obviously the president from the very start of this has just skirted. >> jump in with some of the facts that are repeated so many

times by donald trump that the 35% of his supporters who believe anything may have accepted some of these lies about immigration on the border. >> oh, there's so many. i mean, in the lead up to the midterm he said democrats want to abolish the borders. george soros or democrats were behind these caravans of migrants. he said latin american governments are putting together these caravans to dump their problem citizens on the united states. the list goes on and on. and i think immigration, in the lead-up to the midterms, it was the policy subject on which he was most dishonest. and what was -- >> really? wait. can we take -- even putting up the pictures is a controversial decision. this is one flash point. this is one day and this is because of donald trump's actions. let's take those down. donald trump created this crisis, former border, former immigration, former legal -- people who worked in thettested

that. how is there no pushback in the center of the policy debate? is it that surprising to you? you debunk these lies. you are usually the lone voice. >> yeah, it is unsurprising to me. this is who donald trump has been his entire political -- his entire -- his entire public life. he was a lying real estate developer, lying playboy celebrity and lying candidate and now a lying president and it's worked for him to some extent. the thing i tell people who despair about this is that he -- there is little evidence that he's a master liar during his presidency. they just got walloped in the midterms. a 60% disapproval rating today in a gallup poll. much of the public, not that hard core base but much of the public is seeing through a lot of this and the more extreme he gets when he says democrats want to get rid of the borders, the sillier he sounds to the majority. >> and the size of the base is something that drives me berserk.

the base of trump supporters was not big enough for donald trump to think he had any chance of winning on election night. he did not write a speech for the possibility that he'd win on election night. >> he has convinced his base that somehow there are just waves of criminals coming -- people who are fleeing violence in central america. and i keep asking this question. when is the first guy from the caravan going to shoot up a synagogue on a saturday morning? when is the first person from a caravan going to shoot up a dance club in southern california or a country music festival in las vegas? we're talking about it during the break. every time there's another mass shooting in this country, one of my first reactions after i'm struck again by the horror of the routineness is, please don't let it be an immigrant. >> and the truth about immigrants, legal and illegal, frankly is that they commit crimes at a much lower rate than the rest of the population. >> exactly. and part of the design of this strategy is to portray these people as, it's armies of ms-13

murderers coming here. they are all going to cross the border tonight and slit your throat in your sleep and it plays great to a certain trump demographic where they have -- where they've gotten much more comfortable with racially inflected politics like this. and now it's -- they've got a president, a tv network that amplifies it all the time and turns it into a constant rolling scare tactic. the fact that donald trump is a lying liar who lies, it's less relevant to them because the repetition and volume and the centrality of it to this base-only strategy of a shrinking base but intense base. this is one of the issues that glues them together. >> they won't believe us if he loses. >> daniel dale, thank you. please promise you'll come back. we'll invite you back. when we come back, donald trump heads to mississippi for two nooses. two nooses were found hanging from trees at the state capitol. he's there to support a candidate who suggested we make it more difficult to vote and

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we're going to an event. thank you guys. >> can i ask you about the -- it's an issue on voter's minds. think about -- >> these people are really interested in the issues -- >> there's a lot of people we've talked to that are concerned about your remarks and what you were apologizing for. senator y not spe senator, why not speak to this issue? your comments offended a great deal of people. no, you haven't. what is it that you apologizing for. >> [ inaudible ]. >> senator, you stood inside in jefferson davis' house and you said that this is mississippi history at its best. what did you mean by that? standing inside of jefferson davis' house and -- >> thank you all for being here. >> a third of your electorate is african-american -- senator, you're running to be the senator of the united states -- senator, you're running to be the u.s. senator.

why not talk about race? >> wow. that was republican cindy hyde-smith taking the run-off election seriously. running away from questions from vaughn hillyard about her racially charged comments. she's jokingly told a supporter she'd be on the front row at a public hanging. she said voter suppression might be a great idea. she posed in a picture with confederate artifacts which she captioned, mississippi history at its best. and this weekend the jackson free press reported she attended a segregation academy in the 1970s. president trump will hold a rally to bolster support for hyde-smi hyde-smith. republicans may need all the help they can get because this race has them holding their breath. republicans think cindy hyde-smith will ultimately pull out a win in the special senate election on tuesday. but the race has tightened and after what happened in alabama last year, they are on edge. a swirl of controversy

surrounding the republican senator has given democrat mike espy momentum in the home stretch, officials from both parties say. hyde-smith has never trailed in polling and democrats acknowledge she's likely to win but they acknowledge her flubs have given espy a narrow opening if everything breaks his way. and this disturbing news today. those are two nooses. they were found hanging at the mississippi state capitol this morning. the panel is back. how is there no republican who says, it's not about control of the senate, and we can do better than this. we don't want this. vote for espy. >> we've lost that nedge in the party where -- both of us came out through george h.w. bush land. when david duke got in the rairx he deployed folks like us down to louisiana -- >> tell me the story. >> vote for the crook. it's important. republicans from lee atwater deployed folks down there to work against a guy on the republican ticket names david duke. and it was a moral win and a

political loss but that's the kind of political loss you ought to take once in a while. it's better to have doug jones in the senate than kitty curious roy moore in the senate and part of your party's brand. hyde-smith is an embarrassment. she's probably still going to win because it's mississippi. she's a terrible candidate. what you saw is not just somebody racially disconnected but a bad candidate. she shouldn't win. but it's mississippi. and although espy has run an incredible campaign, it's still mississippi and also, it's mississippi. >> she'd be a perfect candidate for the senate from mississippi if the election were being held in 1854. and i'm telling you. she makes roy moore look like john kenneth galbraith. and here she is trying to run out the clock. and she's clearly been told, don't say another word because

if you put your foot in your mouth one more time, you might actually blow this thing. >> it's remarkable to watch the debate performance where she had notes she basically read off she read off of, in the aftermath refused to go out and send someone in her place. the clock expires and please, god, let's hold onto this lead. >> a normal republican president would not get on air force one and dignify a candidate like this with the sort of stature of the office of the presidency, but donald trump is eager to go. >> after roy moore, we shouldn't be very surprised any more. but it also indicates that the white house is potentially worried that hyde-smith may not win. >> should be a 20 point race or more. >> or more. >> she's 7 to 10 percentage points at the moment. >> do you think they might have some numbers that actually have

them getting wobbly this close to the end? >> tom perez, talked about the path to victory for dems in the senate and he mentioned mississippi and my colleague and i laughed and we had to relisten to it, thought he was talking about missouri. i guess he was right. >> let's give mississippi a break. they don't pick candidates like hyde-smith all the time. there aren't always great economic candidates. that's not the case. espy is a great democratic candidate. >> he has baggage. his biography fits the state. it is the highest percentage black voting state in the country. >> i think he would be the first black senator elected. >> and listen, early numbers, who knows what the polling is, it is a runoff, means you have to get people out after they voted again, it is right after

thanksgiving. anecdotally have seen long lines for absentee ballots, which is absurd. maybe there's a moon shot chance something crazy happens. it is still mississippi. >> let me put up donald trump's approval racing. he has the highest disapproval rating, 60%. hard to get 60% of people to agree on anything. 60% of americans disapprove of donald trump. >> i feel like there's all of this talk about why trump's persistent appeal, how trump is a savant genius, which never takes into account he's not expanded his base at a time when the economy is doing really well. people don't recognize the hand he has and could be playing at this moment, and to go into midterms and lose that number of seats, to only gain potentially two with the senate map that looked like it did at the

beginning of the cycle is an indication of weak nness, not strength. >> that was in "the washington post." if enthusiasm for trump in rural and small town america constituted the story after 2016, the revolt led in the suburbs has become the story of 2018 elections. the more you analyze the house results, the more the suburban problem stands out. >> i am not saying it can't change. it could. with him on the ticket, maybe rural numbers are jacked up more, seems like they're kind of tapped out at this point. i think it would actually be helpful for trump if he acted in the more ceremonial modes of a president. if he went and visited troops at the border or in iraq, if he did the little things that are immaterial but matter to his public image, it could mean a lot. what we have seen the past two years is he is in capable of doing that. did donald trump propose a new state-run television network? spoiler alert, yes.

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we started the show by talking about the volume business of ridiculousness that this president does. in that spirit, his latest tweet. while cnn doesn't do great in the united states based on ratings, outside of the u.s. they have very little competition. throughout the world, cnn has a powerful voice, portraying the united states in an unfair and false way. something has to be done, including the possibility the

united states starting our own worldwide network to show the world the way we really are. great, all caps, exclamation point. >> he already has one. how many state run networks does one president need? >> i have one piece of paper. this is from "the washington post" in june. at one point after watching north korean television which is entirely state run, also a brutal dictate orship, the president talked about i -- about how positive the female news anchor was with him. he joked that even fox news was not as lavish in its praise as the state tv anchor who is probably shot if she isn't. maybe she should get a job on u.s. television. this is real news. >> isn't the crazy part that he is watching north korean television? >> this is damn good television here. >> not judge jeanine screaming

at the tv. >> he wants what kim jong-un has. >> he wants the trappings of dictatorship, he loves things authoritarians have. he would love to have missile parades for his own ego. he would like the trump network globally. this is a guy that lives in a weird fantasy level that we don't believe in as americans. >> how does fox news not fill all those needs? >> there is no bottom for this guy. the black hole of ego need for donald trump will absorb all material in the universe. they only have 24 hours of programming a day. may have to go to fox 2, 3, and 8 to do enough pro-trump propaganda to make the guy happy, but nothing is enough for him. >> on a serious side, fetishizing north korean media is scary stuff.

>> totally. and i think listen, this president is never happier than when critiquing media. he should be in the media critiquing business, he loves doing it. >> fox news doesn't give him enough political -- >> give this to katy tur. me thanks to you. "blood feud" is out tomorrow. it is a novel, fiction. you need it now, escape from the news. "mtp daily" starts with my friend, katy tur. you know who isn't running for that state media network? >> depends. i am kidding. should call it escape from white house and mike lup ka. nicole wallace, happy monday. if it is monday, in the words of eric