about. we also tomorrow have a special report and exclusive guest about a key legal strategy that house democrats can employ if the battle with trump goes to court. it will be new original reporting that you won't hear, i can tell you this, anywhere else. so i do encourage you to check out what we have tomorrow. don't go anywhere because "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. individual one. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. special counsel robert mueller co could now be one big step closer to implicating the president in the ongoing russia probe. today, the president's former lawyer and fixer, michael cohen, pleaded guilty to making false statements to congress and said he'll continue to cooperate in the special counsel's investigation in exchange for a lighter sentence for him.

specifically, cohen has confessed to lying in august of last year about the real estate project that was he was pursuing in moscow on trump's behalf while trump was a candidate for president. identifying the president as individual one in his plea document, cohen's hearing today marks the first time the president of the united states has been named in open court in connection with mueller's investigation. the documents reveal that cohen testified falsely when he said he only discussed the real estate project with trump on three occasions. he's now connfessed that he discussed the status and progress of the moscow project with trump on more than the three occasions, and he briefed family members of trump within the company about the project. that's among the several lies that cohen told congress. cohen claimed that the moscow project ended in january of 2016 when it actually continued through june of 2016. he claimed he never agreed to go

to moscow, yet, he did agree and asked trump if trump would go as well. cohen also claimed he didn't recall getting a response from the russian government, but in fact, he did remember dealing with the office of a top kremlin official. all of those statements were deliberate lies, and apparent effort to cover up to protect the president. as the charging documents state, cohen's intent was to minimize links between the moscow project and trump, in hopes of limiting the ongoing russia investigations. the big question, why did he lie so much? why did he commit a felony so often? and why would cohen commit a felony to cover up his boss' dealings with russia during the election? now the president is accusing cohen of making up the whole story. here's how trump reacted to the news early today. >> what he's trying to do because he's a weak person and not a very smart person, what he's trying to do is end, and

it's very simple, he's got himself a big prison sentence and he's trying to get a much lesser prison sentence by making up a story. so very simply, michael cohen is lying and he's trying to get a reduced sentence for things that have nothing to do with me. >> joining me now, democratic congressman joaquin castro of texas who sits on the house intelligence committee. tom winter, an investigative reporter with nbc news. natasha bertran is a staff writer at "the atlantic" and glen kesher kesher in is er in federal prosecutor. why would michael cohen commit a series of felonies to cover up his boss', his client's, business dealings, in russia? >> well, i think, chris, on face value, michael cohen addressed this point directly in court today. he stood up and then later sat down, better than speaking to

the microphone. he said the reason why he did this was to be consistent with the messaging that was being offered by president trump and by other people close to the president in addition to that, he said he did it out of loyalty to the president. was the reason why he made these false statements, and i think the hope here, chris, was that by saying, hey, look, you know, any discussion of this moscow plan, or this moscow project, and any discussion of a hotel, all that ended before, around the time of the iowa caucus, meaning that it didn't continue on into the actual candidacy of the president. but i think what's really interesting here, chris, is that, in fact, it did. it went into june of 2016. and by that time, trump was the presumptive nominee. this occurred just barely a month before the rnc. so i think it raises questions as to why, you know, seemingly, this is innocuous. it would not be illegal for the president of the united states at that point to continue his business dealings, whether it be in russia, china, the u.s., wherever it may be, it was not illegal for them to pursue business dealings and michael

cohen was somebody who worked for the trump organization. so why in this particular case would you lie about your business dealings in russia? i think it raises a lot of questions. michael cohen addressed some of them today, but obviously there's more for the trump organization, the trump family, and the president, himself. >> i can give one explanation, it's not a legal team, it smells. it smells to have business dealings with people you're supposedly negotiating with on behalf of the united states government, at least defending our interests with. by the way, the title, president of the united states, comes with it that wonderful title leader of the free world. we're dealing with russia, not working with them. anyway, to your point, tom, throughout 2016 and 2017, donald trump repeatedly denied pursuing any deals with russia or in russia ever. in fact, he said he purposely stayed away from russia. let's take a look. >> i mean, i have nothing to do with russia. i don't have any jobs in russia. i'm all over the world, but we're not involved in russia. i have no relationship to russia

whatsoever. i don't deal there. vy no businei have no businesse. no loans from russia. vy i don't have any deals in russia. i have nothing to do with russia. i have no investments in russia. none whatsoever. i have no dealings with russia. i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia because we've stayed away. >> well, cohen's plea deal today shows those statements were false. let me go to congressman joaquin castro, sir, you're on the intelligence committee. what does this tell you about trump's believability, what's it tell you about his legal culpability and his impeachability? >> oh, all great questions. well, the first thing is i think the prosecution of michael cohen for lying to congress i think is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to prosecutions for lying to congress by the witnesses who went in front of the house and the senate. there are other folks like roger stone and donald trump junior, i think, who should be concerned

about possibly facing prosecutions as well. the other thing is based on the buzzfeed reporting about the fact that vladimir putin may have been offered a $50 million condo in that project, if that's correct, and that's been determined, that opens the gates to prosecution under the foreign corrupt practices act, and then that becomes very serious if the president knew about what was going on and what was being offereded to entice vladimir putin to allow that project to go forward. >> do you have a sense that the money was driving trump in the business dealings, was he running for president to enhance this brand so he could make more money in russia? or was he -- was he doing the business deal over there -- i don't know, i keep trying to figure out what the carrot was for him, was he trying to do business at the same time he was trying to be elected president thinking he probably wasn't going to get elected? how do you see it? >> you're right. it's impossible for us to say with certainty, but i don't know that he was convinced he could

win, and that at the end, he may have been actually surprised that he won. so in that instance, it's not completely uncommon for people to take some benefit, some financial economic benefit, from all of the exposure that they get by running for office. >> you're so right. >> you know -- >> you're right, we all know people -- young lawyers, they come out of law school a couple years, business isn't working, they run for some office to get some ink and get back to practice with a little more name i.d. >> sure. >> let me go to glenn on this. how does it all work together legally, how much in trouble is the president? because his lawyer fixer was saying stuff was purgurous, lying under oath to congress. the president was saying basically the same thing the whole time. this guy was echoing it and he's now having to confess to a crime. >> yeah, chris, first of all, the fact the president lies is not exactly late breaking news. >> this president. >> yeah. so why is this consequential? i don't really think it's all

about this one business deal with russia. i think it's about the president's determination to conceal from the american people his relationship with russia because he had bigger things in mind to exploit that relationship. so, and what i found most consequential about all of this news about michael cohen is michael cohen spent 70 hours testifying before the grand jury. i got to tell you, i have tried complex murder cases in less than 70 hours. this is the tip of the iceberg, and there's so much more to come. >> you think there's a lot more coming from cohen? >> absolutely. >> yes. natasha, this story, my god, i -- every once in a while, it just explodes with news. all of a sudden, you got his fixer who has has intimate relations with, now he's saying i don't know the guy, he's a lightweight, almost saying low i.q. this guy has facts. >> yeah. i think when you're asking the question of why cohen felt the need to conceal all of this, as late as august and september of

2017, it just goes back to the idea that they were conscious of how bad this looked. they were conscious of the fact -- >> the smell factor. >> they were conscious of the fact this showed, this provided direct evidence that the president may have been compromised by russia when he was running his election and through the entire election -- >> you mean a $50 million condo, whatever it was? that's something -- a congressman just told me about. i want to go back to the congressman on this one. the timeline of the trump tower project in moscow overlaps with several key events in russia's campaign to intervene in our 2016 election. so the money and the politics are coming together here. we know that trump signed a letter of intent to pursue the moscow project in october of 2015. just a month after the russians succe successfully hacked the democratic national committee. and then in january of 2016, cohen opened up his correspondence with putin's spokesman, his press secretary, about the possible deal. so he's right in the putin world there. by may, cohen was actively planning a trip to russia in

connection with their project. and was arranging a separate trip for trump, himself, to do the same. anyway, cohen continued those preparations through june of 2016, right in the middle l of e campaign, when donald trump junior famously met with russians offering dirt on hillary clinton on the 9th of june 2016. four days later cohen abruptly canceled his trip to russia on june 14th. that's the same day the dnc publicly announced their servers had been breached, hacked into by russian intelligence. wow. the next day on june 15th, the first hacked materials from the dnc were released by a russian entity called guccifer 2.0 and wikileaks then began releasing the dnc's e-mails the next month in jewuly of 2016. congressman, this is so intertwined and i keep thinking if he lied about his business dealings being nonexistent, why would anybody believe when he'd say he had nothing to do with

collaborating with the russians? >> i don't think we can believe what the president says about his relationship with russia or whether he conspired with russia or not because you're right, he started, chris, by saying i have no business with russia, i haven't talked to any russians, and now we have all these evidence of collusion of meetings of trying to get information about hillary clinton, now further reporting that basically a bribe may have been offered to vladimir putin to allow the trump tower moscow project to go forward. and that's very important because what's important there is that it may show a method of doing business that then opens up other questions about how he was doing business in other countries where he has trump properties. so he can face criminal liability there, if, in fact, that $50 million con bow wdo wa offered to vladimir putin and the special counsel can look into how they went about doing business in other countries. >> you know, glenn, he does show an ability to mix business with

pleasure. mix business with politics. we know that down the street from here on pennsylvania avenue, he's got a trump hotel. he doesn't mind welcoming the saudis there all the time. i call this sort of the tale of two towers. the one tower he wants to build in moscow, the other he does his political business with with his son, donald junior, involved in both cases. that's the tricky business. he's got a kid who's being held hostage by this whole process now and he knows it. >> it's pretty ominous among the things we learned today from michael cohen is he also indicated he had been briefing and keeping some of trump's family members up to speed. >> yeah. >> that had a real ominous ring to it because i had -- >> donald junior. >> -- a feeling donald junior, jared kushner, you know, who knows. >> and ivanka trump. apparently, ivanka trump recommended an architect for the trump tower moscow that was being pursued by michael cohen. she is very deep in this as well. there's no evidence yet that she's been brought in to be interviewed by the special

counsel. i can't imagine that she won't be questioned about all this. donald trump junior has been telling associates he expects to be indicted by the special counsel over what he told congress about this deal. he said he was peripherally aware what was going on but may not be the whole story. >> have to wonder about motive here, everybody, just an open question about b motive, donald trump may have been pursuing business over there which we know is true. he was trying to make some money in moscow. he was developing good relations -- sort of a reproachmant with putin. was that meant to encourage his business chances or was, you know, if it's all about money, that makes it simple. anyway, pursuing the trump tower project in moscow, michael cohen teamed up with felix sater, a russian-born american citizen helping plan cohen's trip to russia and pushing the deal, he wrote co-inghen in 2015 saying boy could become president of the usa, we can engineer it. i will get all of putin's team to buy in on this. i will manage this process." it sounds like mob talk. according to the "washington

post," sater told cohen he could get president vladimir putin to say great things about trump. where do i go with this? let me go back to tom on this. put it together. money, politics. what, i mean, we're not even talking the dossier for a while now. it is so -- it's so connected, all this stuff. >> it really is, chris. i think that's kind of the biggest thing we're trying to figure out at this point. i mean, i think we're a good six, seven months behind where robert mueller actually is in this investigation. i think really tellingly today, chris, they decided to set the sentencing for what michael cohen pleaded guilty to today for december 12th, which is also the date that he's going to be sentenced for what he already pleaded guilty to back in august. so just tells me that, hey, you know, we're good with this guy. to glenn's point, they've had seven formal meetings called proffer sessions with michael cohen. we realize that today from the plea agreement that he signed. so it just tells me, chris, that i think they're much further along in this investigation than we know. i think chuck rosenberg made the

point earlier today on our air saying that, look, this is just one of other things that michael cohen admitted to, pleaded to. so i think when you start to look at all the various dots here, you start to look at -- you start to look at his pattern and a serioes of circumstances that raise a lot of questions. to your point before, why lie about this? trump today came out, you played a sound bite saying michael cohen, he's a liar, he's doing this in order to get time off of his sentence. and then later you have our colleague, kristen welker, explaining that apparently the president's written answers to donald trump, according to donald trump's legal team, matches up with what michael cohen said today. so on one hand, you're calling him a liar. on the other you're saying, yeah, now we agree with the things -- we always stated the things michael cohen is now saying. it doesn't quite make a lot of sense, chris. >> you know, the "titanic" can make fun of the iceberg but the iceberg won. thank you, joaquin castro, tom

winter, natasha bertrand and glenn kirschner. donald trump's fixer said he lied to congress. is the president starting to feel cornered? plus how long will republicans stick with trump? ohio governor john kasich weighs in on that tonight. this is "hardball" where the action is. family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all common types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test if you've had hepatitis b which may flare up and cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b, a liver or kidney transplant, other liver problems, hiv-1, or other medical conditions, and all medicines you take including herbal supplements. don't take mavyret with atazanavir or rifampin,

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in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back to "hardball." donald trump's former personal lawyer and fixer sat in federal courtroom today and confessed to purge ju pu perjuring himself. michael cohen's lies seemed aimed at minimizing the role of his former boss, donald trump, in the moscow deal. something trump, himself, has repeatedly done as well. asked about cohen's plea today, president trump tried moving the goalpost. here he goes. >> there would be nothing wrong if i did do it. i was running my business while i was campaigning. there was a good chance that i

wouldn't have won. in which case, i would have gone back into the business. and why should i loose lse lots opportunities? even if he was right, it doesn't matter because i was allowed to do whatever i wanted during the campaign. >> but you denied it all, mr. president, you denied it time and time again. anyway, trump began his day today tweeting wild accusations against special counsel robert mueller. charging him with leading an illegal joseph mccarthy-style witch hunt. it's a technique he's employed over the last two years waging an aggressive personal campaign against not just robert mueller and michael cohen, but also his own government. lashing out against findings that russia was responsible for hacking our democracy. so what if -- what is he afraid of? why does he keep lying? for measuore i'm joined by two people who know trump well, david k. johnson, founder of d.c.report.org and author of "making of donald trump. and glenda blair, author of trump's "three generations of

builders and a president." let me go to glenda on this one. why the cover-up? we love television here. we're on it. and we can use it. and you can show all these tapes again and again and again, trump denying any business dealings during the campaign. why does he do this stuff? why does he keep covering up something that smells bad but wasn't he says, illegal? >> well, there's a couple of possibilities. maybe he's guilty. that's one. another one is, it didnoesn't preclude the first, he's a long-game guy. he was in long game in real estate. he's in long game now that he's in the white house. and the long-game play in the white house is keep denying, distracting, blaming other people, throwing charges back. make it so that we really don't know what's going on. that's the intent. and the delegitimatization is really the long game here. so that he delegitimized, you know, conventional mainstream media, he delegitimizes the idea

that you look for the facts or the truth or the chain of evidence. and in a sense, he's not delegitimizing himself but he's always changing. you can't catch him. so that there's a kind of deniability built into everything. >> let me go to david. i mean, lying about something that may not be illegal, i mean, i'm not sure anybody says it is, doing business while you're running for president. it smells bad because it's a clear conflict. why are you saying you're going to defend the interests of the united states when they go into conflict with russia if you're trying to make money on russia, offering them condo deals on the side? i mean t does look like double dealing, in fact, it is double dealing. but that's not necessarily illegal. the question is, do you trust him on anything? when he denies the business -- how about denying the collaboration on the politics end where his family's involved with both pieces of it? >> well, the denials about russia are no longer at all credible. even donald trump's strongest supporters should begin to realize this, remember, we're

seeing one thread mueller put out there today. it's a powerful and new piece of information. but there's a whole tapestry of facts that's being woven by mueller and his team. and donald trump tonight, i'm sure, is feeling very, very vexed because among other things, what's happened in just a couple of days here? the prosecutor has shown that paul manafort lied and said we've got evidence to prove he was lying left and right to us. and donald had already submitted his written questions when this comes out. and then we have michael cohen with this charge that came out of nowhere and michael cohen, same thing, we have e-mails, we have people around you transacting this business. the donald trump denial and distraction and muddy the waters game is not going to continue to work as well. >> well, on his way to argentina day, president trump was asked why he stuck with cohen for so long if he found him as so weak, as he says now. here's his answer.

>> if cohen is such a bum, why did you hire him, have him on your payroll for -- >> because a long time ago, he did me a favor. a long time ago, he did me a favor. >> are you worried -- >> not at all, i'm not worried at all about him. >> again, "godfather" talk, gwenda, he did me a favor, i made him my lawyer and sfixer fr 20-some years. he faces a lot of danger and bad news coming from the direction of cohen and has to destroy the guy like he tried to destroy maxine waters saying low i.q. he has to destroy what he sees as a personal enemy, lifetime enemy. >> that's his m.o. you're useful until you're not useful. everybody's a candidate to be thrown under the bus when they're not useful anymore. had a long string of them. he did it, done it all the way through from the start. >> who does he trust? >> himself. >> who will stand up for him,

who will take the bullet for him? >> himself. he trusts his gut. he doesn't need experts. he knows what's right. knows more than the generals, more than the scientists. more than everybody. >> david, follow up on that, that's crazy talk. i mean, that's crazy -- it's not crazy talk by gwenda, it's an assessment that says this guy is nuts that he believes he's smarter than anybody else on the planet on everything. solar issues. he's an expert. go ahead. >> if you sat down on a coas coast-to-coast flight next to donald, didn't know who he was, by the time you got to pittsburgh, you'd think you're sitting in ex-to a crazy person. the fact he's appallingly ignorant, doesn't know the first thing about economics, he was given a degree, he didn't teear it from penn. that's how donald sees the world. so long as you're with him, you're smart, real lry great. the minute you turn against him and become useless, as gwenda said, you're weak and an

idiothe. notice in the papers that came out today, people very close to trump, not named directly, but we know who some of them are, they may turn out to be distanced from donald. it's perfectly possible we will see donald throw, for instance, don junior under the bus if it becomes convenient or significant for him to do so. >> you know, david, the way you talk, i'm serious about this, i was an altar boy at our mental institution when i was a kid, i'd go in there with the 7,000 inmates. one was a trustee. he would meet me and he's the guy who brought the movies in. oldtime big movies. he would bring them in. during the conversation he went from the guy who brought the movies in and hollywood producer. he kept going, his delusion of ability -- >> that's donald. >> that's what i thought you were talking about, the guy that brought the movies in to a mental institution. thank you, david, for humor there, i hope. thank you, gwenda blair. people who worked with trump on his own view of himself. up next, it's a moment of truth for the republican party. will republicans stand up for

the rule of law or stand with the president who's flounting it? ohio governor john kasich joins us after the break. this is "hardball" where the action is. out... and forgotten... by a white house and washington mired in special-interests politics. but we can take our country back with a democratic agenda for the people. that means lowering healthcare costs, increasing pay through rebuilding america, and cleaning up corruption. and it means having the strength to stand up for our values. it's time to make washington work for the people again. billions of problems. morning breath? garlic breath? stinky breath? there's a therabreath for you. therabreath fresh breath oral rinse instantly fights all types of bad breath and works for 24 hours. so you can... breathe easy. there's therabreath at walmart.

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and your free wi-fi will start shortly. enjoy your flight mr. jones. world's best inflight entertainment. fly emirates. fly better. welcome back to "hardball." lawmakers on capitol hill are sounding off on the news that president trump's former lawyer, michael cohen, today admitted he lied to congress about a lot of stuff. especially trump's business

dealings with russia. well, some republicans downplay what it could mean for the president. here they go. >> i don't think at this point that there has been anything that in any way changes the landscape, so to speak, where the president is concerned. he has argued all along, there wasn't any collusion on the part of his campaign team or his administration with russia and i haven't seen anything that disproves that. >> all i've seen thus far are process crimes. i've yet to see anybody indicted for actually colluding with the russians. so we'll see. >> are you concerned at all that the president has been talking about -- or hasn't taken off the table the idea of pardoning some of his associates like paul manafort, potentially like michael cohen, when the investigation ares are still going on? >> i'm not concerned about that. the president has a right to do whatever he wants to. >> the president has a right to do whatever he wants to. let me go to governor john kasich of ohio. did you just hear that?

orrin hatch is a man of tremendous experience and dignity and there he is saying the president has a right to say anything he wants. governor? >> well, i don't agree with orrin. yeah, i don't agree with what orrin said, and, look, chris, for me, you just got to let this whole investigation, you know, be completed. it shouldn't be interrupted. and i was thinking about what i wanted to say tonight, and knowing i was going to come on the show, and there are people who are watching this who think, oh, well, you know, kasich's happy. maybe he'll run for president. chris, this makes me sick to my stomach. all of these things that are happening. because i believe like you we love our country, we worry about our country, we worry about, you know, what kind of message this sends to the world. and, but, you know, we're in tribal politics. we see it all the time. and i know, you know, the question is, why does he have 90% republican support? look at the party. it's shrinking.

you know, it's dramatically lost membership, and it is, i say, those house elections, i think the republicans lost 39 seats. there was a blue wave. something that i thought would happen. however, that was done on the basis of anti-trump. i still don't know what the democrat message was because i don't think -- i know they had one, but it wasn't very clear. people are upset in this country. they don't want to see these kinds of things happening, and the party's shrinking. can it be saved? i'm a republican. we did pretty well out here, chris. but i run the politics of inclusiveness. you know, we're up over half a million jobs. we got money in the bank. we cut taxes. but we help people who don't have much. people who are disabled. people who are mentally ill or drug addicted. it's top to bottom. here, the republicans did well. unlike almost everywhere else in the midwest. >> i know. >> they did well here. >> you elected a successor, mike

dewine. amid calls far senate vote on a bill to protect the special counsel, robert mueller, from president trump, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell earlier this week called such a need irrelevant. here he goes. >> this is a solution in search of a problem. the president's not going to fire robert mueller. we have a lot of things to do to try to finish up this year without taking votes on things that are completely irrelevant outcomes. >> well, governor, wouldn't be hard to pass a resolution -- >> i would disagree, chris. i would -- >> go ahead. go ahead. >> yeah. i would disagree with the fact that this is not relevant. of course, it's relevant. and we need to get to the bottom of all this. you know, i know there's a lot of speculation, what does this mean, what does that mean, what does this leak mean, what does this charge mean? i don't really know. i don't study it all every day but at the end, there's going to be a report from mueller and that report has to be clear.

it can not be tarnished. it shouldn't be limited. and i don't agree with mitch mcconnell when he says that, you know, t it's not relevant. it's very relevant. i'd like to see this thing get done. i hope when it's done we can move on. i don't wish for bad things for people. that is not the way i operate. chris, we got to find out what the truth is. we have to find out what the truth is. that simple. >> well, among trump's recent twitter activities, this beauty. a retweet of a picture showing a who's who of trump's political enemies, if you will, behind bars suggesting they should all be tried for treason. you can see there president obama, the clintons, robert mueller, james comey, trump's own deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. what do you make of that? that he has to put out a retweet, the president of the united states is showing everybody he doesn't like as treasonous behind bars? >> i think it's terrible, chris. i mean, look, the country's

divided enough, and people are hungering. you know, i just heard it on a call yesterday, i mean, i see it all the time, people are hungering for an end to all this. the name calling, the chaos. and, you know, when you are the president, you're putting things out like that, look, chris, i'm the governor of the state, the seventh largest state in the country. i got things that make me mad, get me upset. i don't start putting out a list of people that, you know, that are my enemies or something. i mean, i thought we got over that when nixon left. you know, no more enemies lists. you got to work with people sometimes even when you don't like them. it's a matter of fact. it's life. >> you know, i've grown up with your party, with the democratic party, my family's mostly in your party. my brothers, i think two or three, depending what day you talk to them, are republicans. i have to tell you that i grew up with people liking to ridge, governor of pennsylvania, and christine todd whitman. governor rockefeller. all kinds of regular

republicans. they were not crazy right tribalists. so here's the question to you. >> wait a minute, how about ronald reagan? wait a minute, how about ronald reagan? you knew him. >> i knew him. >> don't have to go -- >> i love those people you mentioned. >> let me ask you about you. last time around, i met you up in new hampshire and you called me off into a side room. i think it was off the record. you were very optimistic you could win the nomination up in new hampshire. i think you got good relations with the newspaper up there. where would you stop trump if you were to -- would it be new hampshire? where would any republican have a shot at saying, okay, this is not the real republican party of ronald reagan, even? you're not our guy. where's that going to i'm sayin. sometimes it's been lonely. that this is not the republican party that i knew and i joined. our party is pro-trade, pro-immigrant, believes that our connections and allies around the world are critically important not only for our security, but world security and

world peace. i believe, i'm doing a piece right now, writing a piece for the "washington post" on the deficit and the debt. when did we not care about debt? so i'm doing my darnedest to try to pull things together. chris, look at what i've done in ohio. it's not about talk. look at what i do. >> that's why you're here. let me ask you, anybody can write an op-ped piece who can write. here's the question to you. 14 months from now, not a million years from now, 14 months from now, new hampshire's going to have a primary. will you be there to take on trump? >> i don't know. and you know this, i've answered -- i'm very seriously considering all of my options. >> yeah. >> and we'll see, chris. >> what would stop you from running? >> there are a lot of things that the have to develop. >> what would stop you from running? >> if i -- if i thought that i would not make an impact. if i did not think that it was something where i could contribute to the goodness of our country. you know what -- >> we'll be there to cover you. >> i have many ways to contribute. >> we'll be there to cover you. >> okay. thank you. >> in new hampshire. it will be cold, but it's -- >> always with those hardball questions. >> it's already cold.

might as well be cold, new hampshire. governor john kasich, merry christmas to you, sir. >> merry christmas to you. up next the democrats will face their own moment of june in january when they take control of the house of representatives. that's going to happen. they've got the win. 40-seat pickup. what will democrats do with that power, to ensure that mueller is allowed to complete his investigation as republican governor john kasich says he must be able to do? and america is allowed to see the results of that investigation in its entirety. the full report for everybody to read. you're watching "hardball." the kenya tea development agency is an organization that is owned by tea farmers. every week we sell this tea, we get paid in multiple accounts. we were looking for a bank to provide a safe and efficient technology platform to pay our farmers.

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back to "hardball." the big news today is michael cohen's admission, confession that he lied to congress about a trump deal, a real estate deal in moscow. it's called the moscow project. a month from now the president will face a democratic-led house of representatives. how will they lose their subpoena power to dig deeper into trump's business relationships with russia? is let's bring in tonight's

roundtable. illinois democratic congresswoman sherry bustos who got elected today chair of the dccc, democratic congressional campaign committee, a real lly g deal. eugene, columnist for the "washington post." let me ask you this. you must be having your -- the new power, when nixon got re-elected in '72, he cold colson, oceh my god, i lost the subpoena power again. you have it in your hands. what are you going to find autoabout truautout about trump's business dealings in russia? >> we have three incoming chairmen. jerry nadler will take over judiciary. adam schiff, intelligence. and elijah cummings on oversight. they are three very smart men. they are very good. they are very fair men. i have complete confidence they will be driven by finding the truth. and i think we'll be in good shape. i think our country will be in good shape. >> if you were the grand inquisitor, where would you go, gene? a lot of stuff going on there. >> well, yeah, i mean, you know,

and actually, i don't know where i would go because i don't know what -- you know, i don't know what adam schiff knows, for example, about those hearings. >> we just heard tonight -- >> we haven't been allowed to find out -- >> kristen welker today found out he apparently -- putin was promised a really nice condo in this new hotel over there. >> exactly. >> i mean, these little -- little tributes are interesting. >> from what we learned today, you know, one place you have to go is the trump organization, and it seems to me you have to take a look at, you know, tax returns, trump organization's dealings, because what's been described is, you know, seems to violate the emoluments clause to me, potentially. >> do you think he was running to drum up more business or drumming up more business because he thought he was going to lose? >> look, i think it was all about the family --

>> john brabender? >> every time i'm on a show the democrats seem excited about the breaking news about the day -- >> republicans right -- >> what we learned today smikis michael cohen says they were talking to the russians after iowa and donald trump said it was before iowa and there's nothing illegal aabobout that. >> why did he cover it up? >> he didn't want it to be a political storm. i don't know why michael cohen -- >> did a lot of lying about this. >> nobody cares about michael cohen. >> why did trump deny it? again and again today. we have it on tape. >> let me ask you this. by him denying it, is that illegal? the answer is probably not. >> why did he lie if he didn't have to? >> i can't tell -- >> you got to help me here, he's your guy, come on. >> what i can tell you is, this isn't one of those smokes guns where democrats are going to be out in the streets. what he said isn't illegal, even if he did lie. >> it's probably not illegal for roger stone to know weeks before the dnc -- >> we just got out of a campaign. >> all this suggests collaboration.

>> i didn't see anywhere in exit polls where people said what we really need more around here is more investigations, more hearings. >> okay. you're a young man. let me warn you of something. >> thank you for saying that. i appreciate you. >> i want to tell you something, in 1972 when nixon got re-elected, nobody cared about watergate either. >> that's true. >> the voters didn't care. they gave him 49 states. what's it like to be powerful, by the way, congresswoman? >> i don't know. >> you are, you're chair of the dccc. meanwhile, president trump canceled his meeting with vladimir putin today at the g20 meeting. tweeting today, "based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to ukraine from russia, i've decided it would be best for all parties concerned to cancel my previously --" he didn't write this, this reads like the government of the united states. "previously scheduled meeting in argentina with president vladimir putin. i look forward to a meaningful summit again as soon as this situation is resolved." trump's tweet refers to russia's seizures of three ships in the black sea last weekend. this came an hour after the president told reporters in the midst of questions about michael cohen's guilty plea that now

was, quote, a good time to meet with the russian president. gene, who's in charge here? >> well, look -- >> that was not written by donald trump. that we know. >> of course not. you know, what looks to have happened is the most plausible thing. i imagine that his national security team have been trying to get him in a meeting to explain to him, probably for a week now, why he shouldn't have this meeting, and they finally got him on the plane and they finally, you know, and sat him down and explained why it would be absurd for him to have this buddy/buddy meeting with putin. >> let's have -- >> at a time when he's once again being aggressive toward ukraine. >> come on. let's be fair to the president. you're familiar with the "washington post." on tuesday, the president told the "washington post" that there was a good chance this meeting would be canceled because of what happened on the weekend, and he wanted to wait and see -- >> okay. >> -- what the -- >> you guys withhold for a moment because we have an elected official here. i want to ask you, if you could describe, if you were speaker, you were in charge of deciding

how the democrats use the new portion of the federal government they're going to control, as of january 3rd, you know, parties have made the mistake of spending all their time, back after world war ii the republicans got control of the house for the first time in years, they used it to all they did was hold hearings. >> we can't do that. >> so what happens? >> we made a pledge to the american public the first thing we would do is focus on health care, bringing down the cost of health care and prescription drugs. that we would rebuild our country with a real trillion dollar infrastructure package. and number three, we would clean up this mess in washington. but we're talking about the dark money in politics. to gene's reference earlier, we got a problem with abuse of the emoluments clause. i can tell you back in the 17th district of illinois, though, we don't go around talking about the emoluments clause. we just talk about making washington work. >> let me ask gene, then john. wh who do you think the best picks are for the democratic nominee against trump in 2020?

best picks. >> is sherrod brown. >> ohio. >> is an interesting possibility. he won against the tide in ohio. he, you know, he won his race. and i think he's a real possibility. kamala harris. who is really, reallyreally, really talented politician. >> is that a ticket right there? >> could be a ticket. >> ohio, california. >> my third choice is candidate "x." there's somebody out there. >> i don't know who the best opponent is, but i think beto o'rourke is very credible. i think he will. senator harris is very credible, great story. and the third one, possibly, is senator amy klobuchar. >> i like all this thinking. what comes through, the democrat needs a woman on the ticket. >> all in favor. >> you're watching "hardball." alright, i brought in ensure max protein...

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trump watch thursday, november 29th, 2018. i'd like to end tonight with the tale of two towers. the first tower, the one trump wanted to build in moscow, was about a business deal to make him richer. the moscow project he called it, about building a gold plated trump tower in the russian capital. the deal trump denied being involved with, certainly not during the 2016 election. the second trump tower was the meeting place for that june 2016 get together of his son and name sake with putin's representative to talk about getting dirt on hillary clinton. politics, not money was the name of that game. but from the beginning of this tale of two towers the meetings in these two buildings had one thing in kbhcommon, trump has

denied them both, denied being in on any business dealings with russia, denied knowing anything about his son donald jr.'s meeting with the russian rep in the trump tower in manhattan. trump recently denied knowing anything about the change in the republican platform to meet russia's demands, denied knowing anything about russia's hacking in the democratic national committee, denied knowing anything about russia's interference in the 2016 campaign at all. and yet, and yet there's the fact now these other witnesses coming forward, like that of his fixer, michael cohn who now confesses to have lie, of having perjured himself when he told congress that trump was not engaged in moscow business dealings during his campaign for the presidency. which is adefenorned with the t, leader of the free world. wouldn't it have been to nice to know this at the same time he was speaking voter support for standing up to russia? wouldn't it be useful for our

country to have a president who comes clean with the people who made him president? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in -- they said maybe donald trump is involved with the project in russia. the answer is no. >> michael cohen flips on donald trump. tonight the massive trump lie exposed by his former fixer. >> have no business whatsoever with russia. when i run for president that doesn't mean i'm not allowed to do business. >> and why today's revelation is just the tip of the iceberg. >> i think this is just a preview of coming attractions. plus, new breaking details about donald trump and the so-called moscow project. >> it's basically two old friends saying, hey, our guy can become president. >> what we know about matt