son, george w. bush, who was on speakerphone and said he loved him. i love you too, the 41st president said, soon after he passed away. that from peter baker, msnbc contributor and "new york times" journalist. here is president trump just a short time ago. >> i'll be spending three days of mourning and three days of celebrating a really great man's life. so we look forward to doing that. and he certainly deserves it, he really does. he was a very special person. i spoke with jeb and george today. and we had great conversations, and we -- we discussed actually for quite some time their father and how much they loved him, and how much that he loved them. >> well, the former president had an impressive resume, an aviator in the navy, cia director and vice president, all before he moved to the oval office.

he saw the fall of the berlin wall, the collapse of the soviet union, he -- gathered a panel of people who have worked with and covered him. andy carr, served as assistant to the president. former white house aide to h.w., joe watkins, radio host and msnbc contributor hew hewitt, and bret stephens. we saw the current president there at the g20, you wrote a column about the contrast between these two leaders. george h.w. bush was someone who relished communication can others around the world. he spoke positively, often about nato and other alliances. theres a stark contrast there between the approach of this president and the one we lost last night. >> both in a personal sense and an ideological sense. i think george h.w. bush saw himself not only as the president of the united states but as the leader of the free world and for him improving

alliances, making -- expanding the reach of democracy, which is what he was able to do with mckale gorbachev and his handling of the collapse of the soviet union. those were central to his world view. also central to his world view was a certain kind of gentility. i use the word class only in the best sense of that word, maybe another term would be the sense that having been born to privilege, he had an obligation to serve. and that the presidency wasn't really about him. it was about what he and his team could do for the country and for the world. and there's a contrast. i'm reluctant to paint it too starkly with the present. >> andy card, let me turn to you, you read any number of obituaries today and remembrances, the word service comes up. bret was saying there was a

devotion to service. how did you see that when you were working with him? >> i had the privilege of working with him when he was working to become the president of the united states. i was working with the campaign, and he talked about how his mother inculcated all of the children in the bush family, most significantly him, with an expectation that they would not practice bragging about yourself, and they were also inculcated with an obligation to serve, to participate in society and help find solutions. and to participate in government. so he grew up with a wonderful expectation that noble public service was, in fact, a noble calling. and he answered that call and he did so very, very well. and not only that, he became very contagious with that. and you've got a lot of other people that answer the noble call of public service. that's going to be he has greatest legacy. >> hew hewitt, we are margournia

man, i remember him talking about himself in the context of republicanism, modern republicanism, he was wedged between ronald reagan and his son's administration. how would you situate him in that pantheon? >> he had a very successful presidency, david and we've already noted some of the highlights. rev land al is in south africa tonight, and in fact george h.w. bush had nelson mandela to the white house soon -- he negotiated the clean air act amendments that took care of the ozone and the acid rain. of course he negotiated the fall of the berlin wall and that saving of -- he had a great foreign policy team. dick cheney as secretary of defense. i think by the time a few days sank in people will come to realize that there are a lot of bush republicans out there, including me. i was working for his campaign as a volunteer in '78, '79 and

'80. he defined a generation of republicans on how they have to approach politics, how they ought to carry on the reagan legacy and his graciousness and his love of family. they have equals, but no one surpasses him. >> joe watkins, household names there, baker, experts in their field, what did that look like in the white house, the way this president drew upon people with expertise? >> whey loved about him, he listened to the people around him, he assembled a great team, he was the one that made collin powell the chairman of the chief of staff, a great group of individuals working with him and he listened to them and they crafted an outstanding foreign policy, did a great job with the economy setting the stage for the 1990s and for the economy that we shared in the 1990s. and i just think he was masterful in terms of listening, of placing people, bringing

people into his administration and listening to them and letting them help him mold what he did during the four years he was president of the united states. i also should say this, as an african-american, long before he was president i appreciated what he did as a congressman from texas when he supported fair housing, something he didn't have to do, but something he championed boldly because it was the right thing to do. that's what he was. he was always doing the right thing. for him it was do the right thing. and i appreciate him so much for that. and we will miss him. >> well, domestic policy and the economy in just a moment, but bret stephens, let's stick with foreign policy. you alluded to his particular brand of outreach to the soviet union at the time. he had faith that dialogue would lead to something. there was personality in play that led -- how much of a gamble was that for him? >> people forget. it all seemed preor daned that

the soviet union, a country armed with thousands of nuke lore warheads locked into this posture of hair trigger hostility to the west, people think it all kind of dissolved peacefully and that that's the way it was going to be. i don't think that was the case at all. he did a couple of things that were extraordinarily important. he didn't brag. he didn't try to make the soviets feel humiliated by the collapse of their economy and the collapse of their empire. he worked to shore up gorbachev and then with boris yeltsen. he insisted on the reunification of germany, peaceful center of stability and economic prosperity in a turn lent europe, george h.w. bush is the father of that. his other great achievement in his foreign policy, in foreign

policy was engineering a war against sadaam hussein that met its purposes with minimum loss of american lives and where we were able to also end the war, not be stuck in a war. there's an interesting and important debate to be had as to whether he didn't go far enough in getting rid of sadaam hussein. historians will go back and forth on that for a very long time. but that was the first really successful application of american military power since the vietnam war and its effects on the american psyche were profound and also helped set the stage for the confidence this country felt -- >> it led to the end of sadaam hussein's reign. hugh hewitt, let me go to you on that point. this was a war that lasted 100 hours. it was a huge coalition that was involved as well. talk a bit how he assembled that work, worked that rolodex that

he built when he was the ambassador to the u.n., when he had that career in congress to make sure that this was something the broader international community participated in. >> i go back to that amazing team of people he assembled. he dispatched dick cheney to -- he sent james baker to sit down with the foreign minister of russia to effectively negotiate no opposition at the security council of the u.n. to the coalition. he persuaded israel, and people will forget this, and bret may be able to speak to this very, very well, he persuaded israel not to respond when skuds were landing on it. there is controversy whether he called it off too soon. the marsh arabs in the south were decimated afterwards. but the kurds were preserved. on the domestic policy he picked david suitor over edith joins,

that one will be burning as a key moment. if you go back over the entire history of george h.r. bush, rnc chairman, cia director, the ambassador to china, it is hard to argue that anyone entered the office better prepared. no one's really prepared, but it's hard to find anyone who thad done more to be ready to learn how to be president than george h.w. bash. >> andy card, his approval ratings were extremely high, close to 90%. and then the economy began to turn. we saw a down turn in this country we hadn't seen for 50, 60 years. how did he navigate that? he was frustrated with the fact that his domestic message wasn't resonating, that the economy wasn't something he couldn't shake or couldn't improve? how did you see him navigating that when you were in his cabinet? >> well, i think the seeds of his political angst came because he violated his promise when he

said no new taxes and then he ended up increasing taxes. but people forgot to recognize that he got remarkable fiscal discipline in place that lasted ten years and kept this country on track to be strong economically. the economy was not as bad as the myth, it was actually better than talked about in that campaign. that was frustrating to him because he knew it was better than the media was reporting it to be as he lived up to the campaign. but it was really the seeds of that violation of the read my lips promise that he had made and he did the right thing by forming a deal with a democratic congress that ended up saying you have to pay for that which you spend. and bring fiscal discipline to a reality, and he had rules in place that were not only rules for the executive branch, they were rules for the legislative branch so there was great discipline in the budget and that's what allowed bill clinton to have a very strong economy during his presidency, and years

afterwards. >> joe watkins, we're talking about principles, andy card is talking about a principled stand on many numbers of things, but he saw his policy positions evolve since his early days as the head of the republican party in harris county, texas, when it came to civil rights, he changed his legislation on that men he made his way to washington, d.c. from texas. talk a bit about that, how he maintained his role as a principled politician and just reacted to or evolved with the attitudes in this country. >> well, there are always tremendous challenges for anybody in applicant, especially for elected leaders as well as appointed leaders and there's always the challenge of doing the right thing as opposed to doing the expedient thing. i give him tremendous credit for time and again doing the right thing as opposed to the expedient thing. this is what his son said about him today, he was a man of tremendous character, it rang so true with me. again, i point to what he did.

while we were in the white house, of course, we passed the 1990 civil rights act. and, this is a president who supported civil rights. i remember working with andy card and others, we bought a host of civil rights leaders to talk with the president, ben hooks, coretta scott king and many others. he had a great working relationship with them and he wanted to level the playing field. he was very sensitive to the challenges that people of color in this country face. he wanted to level the playing field. so he talked with folks before making his move and then, of course, he signed the civil rights bill. i was proud to be a part of the white house that did that. it, again, to me spoke to his character. he worked with democrats as well as republicans as andy and others have said. that's something we sorely miss in today's political landscape. >> let's come back and talk about bipartisanship here in a moment. my guests are going to stay with me to talk about the legacy of president bush and his impact on world events. later this hour, michael cohen's plea deal, paul manafort's

sentencing. what it all means and we'll hear from robert mueller next, coming up on msnbc.

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wac back to our special coverage of the death of president george h.w. bush, he passed away last night at the age of 94, a little more than seven months after the passing of his wife barbara, condolences pouring in from across the globe as world leaders are reflecting on his legacy. that legacy is tied to that of

nelson mandela as well, bush's commitment to disassembling the apartheid -- here's reverend al sharpton with his quick thoughts on the passing. >> we're in johannesburg celebrating the 100th anniversary of the birth of nelson mandela, and all over people are talking about the passing of george bush. george bush, who really helped to negotiate the dismantling of apartheid, and worked with reconciliation. he demonstrated it with bill clinton who defeated him. there's a lot of people that show a lot of respect for the global work that president bush did. so as we're here memorializing mandela, we remember a man who stood for reconciliation in american politics, george bush. >> bring back andy carr, joe watkins, hugh hewitt and bret stephens. joe watkins, you alluded to this

in the last block, talk about his motivations. >> his motivation was what he was raised with, what his mother taught him at an early age, again, just like andy was saying, not to brag about himself. and what's really sweet is that he put it into practice in his life. a lot of people, listen, they're taught lessons they don't listen too well to those lessons. he actually practiced them in his life. he was always a very, very thoughtful around people. and that's what really, i think, is the true mark of a person. it's not what you do when the lights are shining and the spotlight's on you, it's what you do when nobody's watching. when nobody was watching, he was just as kind and thoughtful to people around him as when the spotlight was on him. i appreciated the way he treated people in the white house. everybody on the staff, from the people with the least important jobs to the most important people, he treated them all the same. and to me that's the mark of a great human being, of somebody who is a great and generous human being. >> andy card, i saw a quotation

from a historian today, a bit tongue in cheek, put he referred to george h.w. bush as a third term president, he served with ronald reagan, and he was continuing the legacy of ronald reagan into that term. i know you worked for both men. how distinct were the two administrations, would you say? >> well, first, ronald reagan was a terrific leader, but he was better at communication than george h.w. bush, and george h.w. bush reflected the heart and conscience of america. they were a fabulous team together. and president reagan respected vice president bush and gave him a lot more authority than a lot of vice presidents get. and he also, actually, solicited vice president bush's views on a lot of foreign policy. and he was -- had a big mark in a lot of the foreign policies that president reagan put in place. they had a really good team together. and jim baker, remember, was chief of staff to president reagan. and he was george h.w. bush's best friend. so that was also an unusual

thing, to take someone who had supported an opponent of ronald reagan, to be the chief of staff. and jim baker did a fabulous job. he and george h.w. bush, the friendship of a lifetime. they -- jim baker was with george bush when he was having his final breaths. and that love relationship there was something that we witnessed working at the white house. and i consider the two most significant personalities that i met in all of my service in government were george h.w. bush and james a. baker iii. >> i want to bring in senator rob portman, served as legislative liaison for president bush, associate white house counsel before that. let's go back in time, you're in cincinnati. you're drawn to this man considering a run for the presidency. what was about it him that attracted him to you?

-- >> he was there at the beginning too. we liked the guy. he was personable. he's known for writing those handwritten notes. it's about understanding people and liking people and being able to connect with people and he also seemed like he was the best experienced person, you know, who had ever run for president, probably. i think that's certainly true. he had the background at cia, the background as ambassador of the u.n., he had the china envoy, and of course having been a congressman. so he just seemed like he was a person who was ready and we really didn't know at that time, as you know because there were probably 15 people running for president whether he'd have a chance but sure enough he did really well in iowa. not quite as well in new hampshire. and ended up being picked as vice president and the rest is history. >> senator portman, you mentioned he served in the house, had two terms in the house and then after that declared he wanted to be the u.s. ambassador to the united nations. there was skepticism about his ability to do that, some folks

thought he was too green for the job at that point. but let's talk about those two terms in congress, the degree to which they shaped him and as you were advancing his legislative agenda that was brought to bear in conversations with you. >> absolutely. well, he had a great respect for congress. and a lot of friends. in fact, a lot of his friends were democrats. that's been noted in other programs i've seen today. but a lot actually from ohio, a toledo congressman who was a dear friend of his. he had a lot of good will on capitol hill. it also enabled him to see the role congress could play, a great example would be desert storm. there were advisers, andy will remember this, who did not believe he should go to seek the approval of the united states congress for that military action because it was thought it could possibly lose. everybody knew sadaam hussein had to be kicked out of kuwait. he felt differently. he had firm convictions that

congress should be brought in, and through them the american people should be brought in so there would be more consensus about that conflict. in the end, david a you may remember, it was a very close vote. i was up on the hill working it. we won by thee votes. it was very close. but in retrospect it was the right thing to do and it reflected the fact he served in congress and understood congress and understood the role they could play. >> andy card, what are you reflections, in hindsight, it went easier than it did at the time. how stressful was it for you there in the white house? >> well, president bush thad a great respect for the institutions of our great democracy, including the institution of a two-party system. but he really did respect the role that article 1 has in our constitution, and that's the people's voice, that's the members of congress. here he was the head of the executive branch, article 2, and article 1 is always challenging article 2, and he respected that challenge. the way he said he wanted to get

congress's permission to go into free kuwait from sadaam hussein's grip. he was prepared to do it even if congress had said no. there would have been tremendous fallout for that, probably would have been political suicide. but he was also firmly committed to making sure that the rules of the world, the u.n. had established, were respected by all of the nations of the world. so he said sovereign borders must be protected. and that's how he built a coalition that was remarkable in its resolve. and it was also constraining in the expectations. that's why he didn't go on to get sadaam removed from power. he just removed sadaam and iraq from kuwait. that became a controversial and an interesting debate to have but it was the right thing to do in the context of the u.n. resolution and the partnerships that he attracted to help build the coalition that made a difference. >> bret stephens, as we talk about legislative achievements,

we haven't talked about the americans with disability act, something he championed, there was that scene when he signed that piece of legislation and some 3,000 people were there for that moment. how big a deal was that when you look at modern american history? >> when you think of how different the world is for disabled people today than it was, say, when i was growing up in the 1980s, to say nothing of before that, that's a landmark piece of civil rights -- of civil rights legislation. it's worth considering that there was a period in history when republicans were champions of precisely that. i mean, george bush from his service in world war ii knew a lot of people who had been terribly disabled. that bill was passed with the help of bob dole who of course had been grievously wounded also in the second world war. but that's -- it also speaks, i think, to the difference between the republican party of his era and the republican party of today. you know, one thing that we haven't mentioned, but i think is important to note, george

h.w. bush believed in the importance of immigration to this country, as ronald reagan did. and he was a champion of having a more liberal, open border relationship with mexico. he was also really the main force behind nafta and the liberalization of our borders with mexico and canada which brought untold benefits to the country, even if that's what prompted ross perot's challenge to him in 1982, which probably cost him the presidency. it's the way in which the interests of the country and of the free world took precedence over his narrow political interests. >> hugh hewitt, i'll go to you lastly. so much resonance in what we're talking about, the debate over branches of the government, trade, and certainly stages during the george h.w. bush presidency, a lot that rings true in the debates happening once again. there's a rhyme to history, as i said this morning, hugh.

>> one of the things, he's an honest to god war hero, splashed down twice in the pacific, picked up twice, went back, won all sorts of awards. i think that that tells us military service is something that you really look for in elected leaders. you also look for families. prescott bush, his dad, was one of the first to condemn mccarthy. looked askance over his private life, and george -- two of the most successful governors were his kids. i look at the whole life and i'm amazed. one of those spectacular american lives that can be studied from many, many different vantage points. and a lot of it goes back to that service at age 18, putting up his hand and saying i've got to go off to war even though i could go off to yale. >> senator portman, lastly to you, an elusive thing in washington these days, similar

conversations after the passing of john mccain, what are you going to say to your colleagues? what do you take away from the passing of george h.w. bush? how will that change with the way you interact with colleagues on capitol hill, remembering what he did in the '80s and early '90s? >> well, david, i hope it reminds us that it's okay to reach across the aisle and try to get things done working with the other side. it's okay to respect your political opponents and not consider them enemies. it's okay to practice, as he did, civility in politics. he's my mentor. he brought me into this business. i've seen how you can do it as a gentleman. also as somebody who can be firm. he had convictions, no question about it. but he did it in a way that i think sometimes is lost these days, which is not just to reach across the aisle, but to do it with respect and sincerity, we can learn a lot from that. >> senator portman, thank you very much. and thanks to my panel.

coming up in just a bit. president trump is closing out this week's g20 summit in argentina, who he met there and who he didn't. we'll be right back.

quick note, politics nation will be back tomorrow, a show you do not want to miss. reverend sharpton's interview with nelson mandela's daughter, telling us about what her father's legacy means to the world. and trevor noah, one of the host of global citizens mandela 100. all tomorrow right here on msnbc. we'll be right back. ♪ let's do the thing that you do. let's clear a path. let's put down roots. let's build something. let's do the thing that you do. let's do the thing that changes the shape of everything... that pushes us forward and keeps us going. let's do the work.

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welcome back. update you on other news happening today. the g20 summit, a bilateral dinner with chinese president xi jinping. yesterday the president cancelled his meeting with russian president vladimir putin, seeming to coincide with micah cohen's guilty plea, how much the president knew about it all. and a sentencing date came down yesterday for paul manafort. federal judge ruling that the former campaign chairman will be sentenced in march after violating his plea agreement with special counsel robert mueller's investigation. joining me guy lewis, don callaway on the left. and i donjohn currings on the l. all this unfolded, he says he

cancelled the meeting not because of that, but because of what was happening with the ships from ukraine and this russian incursion. do you believe that now that you've processed this, taken a few days to process? >> i do. here's why, david. we saw president trump meet with putin last summer in helsinki. that happened amid lots of stories about the russia investigation, happened around the time michael cohen was meeting with the mueller team. so i don't think one news story would scare donald trump away from meeting with vladimir putin. we've seen the russia investigation going on for the better part of two years now, so i don't think a particular story would do that. i do know that president trump feels very passionately about the unlawful annexation of crimea and the invasion of ukraine back in 2014. his first couple of weeks in office, his first action in office was to uphold those sanctions from the obama administration. those were against three dozen of putin's top oligarchs and political insiders. that was a pretty strong move.

you look at some other sanctions. he was actually tougher in his first 18 months in office than barack obama was in eight years against russia on divisions, including energy, military, political sanctions and economic sanctions, including involving treasury secretary steve mnuchin. >> it's fair to say there was plenty of russian incursion in ukraine before that summit took place, what's you reading of the cancellation of the meeting? >> it's very difficult to answer your original question about whether or not the cancellation took place specifically because of the mueller investigation coming to a head with manafort and mr. cohen this week. who knows? but certainly the pop ticks would not have been good of handshakes and another bro-like meeting with president putin alongside the backdrop of the two guilty pleas, particularly the cohen guilty plea which shows that putin was offered $a

50 million apartment. i think jen is actually right, that president trump has been fairly strong on anti russian policy. what he has not done, however, is done anything whatsoever to condemn vladimir putin as a murderous oligarch, as a continuous human rights violator. and he will not do that. but his policies actually have been okay in terms of tightening some of the sanctions. but it's not really fair to say he's been so much tougher than president obama because he has not said or done anything against the person, the man who is at the head of one of the murderous dictatorships of our time. >> well, actually with respect -- >> quickly, jen. >> president trump actually led the global rebuke of vladimir putin after the former agent was used nerve gas on him in london. even theresa may, who's not been a big trump fan, led -- joined onto that effort to expel russian diplomats. >> you can't do that and then

stand right next to him and continue to have these bro fests. he won't even say that russia had anything to do with the 2016 elections, which they clearly have. he continues to supplement mr. putin's statements on the global stage. he says he didn't. that's ridiculous. and you can't have it both ways. >> his actions have been very tough, don, including new sanctions last april. >> under no circumstances -- jen -- >> no, penalized 17 of vladimir putin's inner circle, prevented them from even traveling to the west doing business with the west. >> last word, and then i've got to go to guy lewis. >> you can't do that and stand arm in arm on a global stage. >> i agree with that. >> i said guy lewis, i was going to go to you next. i want to get your reaction to what what saw in the federal courthouse. what are you watching here in the coming days as he approaches his sentencing, give us your sense of how pivotal that moment is in this investigation? >> david, i think it is pivotal. you hit the nail on the head.

you look at cohen's sentencing memorandum that was just filed by his lawyers that detail his cooperation, not only with the southern district of florida, but with mueller's team. two separate investigations that are ongoing. and i'm convinced, after reading that and continuing to read the tea leaves, david, that mueller is drawing up a very, very -- now, he's already said he doesn't think he can indict the president while he's still president but you better believe there's going to be a very, very hard-hitting report delivered that talks about conspiracy. conspiracy to obstruct justice. conspiracy to interact with the russians. and these witnesses that he's lining up, cohen, flynn, trying to get manafort, but so far no luck on that. and these other witnesses. to me they're all pointing to this kind of conclusion to his

investigation. >> jen, guy lewis has talked about how pivotal this is from a legal perspective. donald trump named as individual one in that criminal complaint. how does that change the conversation about this president? you've seen the tweets, we've seen the president attacking the investigation yet again, we've seen rudy giuliani going after andrew weissman, suggesting he's the one who put paul manafort in solitary confinement and that's not the case. has something shifted when you've talked to other republicans? >> there's no doubt, and i've said this being a pr political operator for the last 15 years, there's something to be said about the court of law versus the court of public opinion. i do think, as the attorney allen dershowitz said recently, there might be some political damage done depending on what comes out of this final report. they're going towards some obstruction of justice claim that president trump perhaps did that when he was drafting the statement about don jr.'s meeting in trump tower. we'll have to see.

but i think here michael cohen has a credibility problem. it's like that old perry mason series that said were you lying then or are you lying now? michael cohen has a track record of giving false statements, whether that was initially to the mueller team, or perhaps he's lying now to save his own hide. >> guy lewis, how big a deal is that when you look at the shift of what we've seen with what michael cohen has been saying? >> that is a good point. because cohen does make for a challenging witness. but we've seen mueller put people on the witness stand already in the manafort case, for example, who've lied, who testified falsely to agents, to the grand jury and others. what it means, david, is that cohen and others are both going to have to corroborate each other. and also be significantly corroborated by the documents and other independent evidence. >> don, we've got a lot of balls up in the air. let me ask you about one other

one here, james comey being called to testify before the house judiciary committee before leadership changes in the house of representatives. he's due in court, making -- we'll hear from the judge in that case on monday, whether or not he will go forward with that testimony. your sense if that's going to happen. if this is going to work for republicans, getting loretta lynch to capitol hill before that change in power? >> well, director comey has already said through his attorney that he will fight this subpoena. and i think his goal is to let the clock run out on this congress and wait until january. certainly nancy pelosi and a new democratic congress won't be subpoenaing hip -- him. i don't know enough about the congressional calendar in front of me to know whether or not he will be successful. we'll see what happens in the hearing on monday. but i would highly, highly doubt that there's a large probability that james comey will actually be seen in front of congress sitting in response to this subpoena.

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we're back now with more on the passing of the 41st president of the united states, george h.w. bush. kurt smith is a former presidential speech writer who wrote more addresses than anyone else for president bush, 41. you could fill a library with all the fine things he's written about baseball as well. what was george h.w. bush's approach to the speech, to communicating with folks in the u.s.? >> well, george h.w. bush once told me that i'm not ronald reagan, i couldn't be if i wanted to be. he was right on both counts. he wasn't ronald reagan. he couldn't be ronald reagan and he at any time want to be ronald reagan in the sense that reagan put enormous affect and import on the spoken word.

bush felt wrongly or rightly, that the spoken word was one dimension of his presidency and that it was one aspect of being president. i think perhaps if he had to do it over again he might have put more emphasis on the spoken word. in fact, we talked about that after his presidency, but certainly he was capable of giving good speeches and i think he proved that throughout his presidency. he simply didn't put an emphasis on each speech throughout the four years as it regular be did throughout his eight. >> let me ask you about the way he approached his presidency in a historical context. i saw an interview with him this morning. he hated the "l" word. legacy. and his place in history. >> he had enormous lack of ego, an enormous self-afacement for

any kind of politician let alone the president of the united states. he hated the "d" word in addition for dynasty. he would never talk about his two sons as being part of a dynasty as would for example, the kennedys. he had a great sense of modesty which was instilled in him through his mother dorothy. once when bush was 8 or 9 years old and playing baseball, of course, he hit two home runs and he came back and told his mother and his mother, dorothy, said using the words from that great hymn, now, george, none of that how great thou art business. she brought him back to earth very quickly. so bush, you know, looked at a legacy as basically something for other people. he wasn't interested in that. he felt that if he did his job and the job was to do the job both here and abroad on behalf of the american people that the legacy, the "l" word would take care of itself.

>> he was a prolific writer. we've heard from any number of guests about the short letters would send to them and the notes. he never wrote his memoirs and i wonder if that surprises you. you have president obama working full speed on getting his memoirs done. why do you think that george h.w. bush didn't? >> because of the lack of ego. he wasn't interested in burnishing the legacy. it didn't surprise me in the least and some of us have tried to make up for that void by writing books about him, but i think history's the best -- is the best judge of a president and i think both, if you look here at home, in terms of his pioneering civil rights legislation, the legislation on behalf of the disabled, two bills that i had the honor to write the speeches for, or abroad, in fact, in terms of what he did on behalf of

hundreds of millions of people freeing them, helping to free them from communism, the enormous credentials he brought on foreign policy, this is what history says about someone not in terms of burnishing their own legacy, so i think bush had it figured right. and you know what? look at how he's been remembered today. that speaks for itself. >> great to speak with you, thank you very much. kurt smith joining us. up next, reverend al sharpton with his final thoughts. depend fit-flex is made for me. with a range of sizes for all body types, depend fit-flex underwear is guaranteed to be your best fit. and now you know. jardiance is the first type 2 diabetes pill proven to both reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who have type 2 diabetes and heart disease... ...and lower a1c, with diet and exercise. jardiance can cause serious side effects

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click, call or visit a store today. nico al sharpton is on assignment in south africa this week. here are his final thoughts for today. >> as i sit here in south africa, i'm struck when dr. mandela told me how her father believed in teaching every generation to fight and build a better world. i was taught by mrs. scott king and jesse jackson and others, i'm trying to teach others. every one of us owes that to the next generation and every once in a while a nelson mandela will emerge to show us that we got to dig deeper and demonstrate more strength and more sacrifice but we can get there. never give up hope. that's why south africa is changed and we can change the world. >> that does it for this hour. "politics nation" will be back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m.

eastern time and at 9:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow night, three great hours of the mandela 100 global citizen festival from south africa. up next, chris matthews continues our coverage remembering the life and legacy of george h.w. bush. ♪ tonight the country remembers the life and remarkable legacy of president george herbert walker bush, the 41st president of the united states died last night at aged 94 in his home in houston, texas. his passing comes hardly eight months after the death of his wife barbara. bush 41 spent a life in service to his country from his days in a navy pilot shot down by the jane