eastern tomorrow night, three great hours of the mandela 100 global citizen festival from south africa. up next, chris matthews continues our coverage remembering the life and legacy of george h.w. bush. ♪ tonight the country remembers the life and remarkable legacy of president george herbert walker bush, the 41st president of the united states died last night at aged 94 in his home in houston, texas. his passing comes hardly eight months after the death of his wife barbara. bush 41 spent a life in service to his country from his days in a navy pilot shot down by the japanese during world war ii over the pacific, to his

humanitarian work with president clinton in the years after the presidency and, of course, so much action in between. although his presidency just lasted one term, he oversaw some of the most defining moments of u.s. foreign policy. he guided the break-up of the soviet union, an operation desert storm known by most of us as the gulf war. the former president's final words were to his son george w. bush who told him he had been a wonderful dad and that he loved him. bush 41 told his son, i love you too. today, bush 43 remembered his father as a man of the highest character and the best dad a son or daughter could ask for. president trump who has publicly fought with the bush family said this in argentina today. >> i express deepest sympathies. we were just talking about it. he was a wonderful man. i met him on numerous occasions. he was a high quality man who truly loved his family, one

thing that came through loud and clear, was very proud of his family and very much loved his family, so he was a terrific guy and he'll be missed and he led a full life and very exemplary life. >> the flags at the white house are at half-staff and a national day of mourning is coming wednesday. the white house said president trump and the first lady, melania, will attend the funeral services at the national cathedral in washington. president bush will lie in state at the u.s. capitol before his funeral. expected to be intered in texas at the presidential library. john mitchham, the american odyssey, another great historian and columnist, he has interviewed president bush numerous times. jon, i've read your book, its

wonderful. you once heard bush say the best thing about being the president was the honor of the office. i heard some kid laughing at that that it is the honor of this office which has been dishonored on occasion since that merely does matter a lot. >> it matters enormously. that was a part of the ambient atmosphere that poppy bush as he was known. his grandfather george herbert walker was called pop and so george herbert walker bush was called poppy when he got into politics in texas was not the kind of nickname you wanted to sell, you know, in abalone, but even until the last few months there's still members of the family that would slip and call him poppy, but he was someone who both from his mother, from his father, senator bush who served in the senate from connecticut for 12 years, they

were -- they were people who had -- and this is a phrase that we're not supposed to use sort of like the honor of it all phrase, but he was driven by a sense of noble obligation, he was born in privilege, he wanted to give back. he was an easy person to carry tour. i never saw you and jon both know this as well, one of the great things about biography and journalism is trying to explain the gap of the person you encounter and the image that they project across a broad complicated republic and i think george h.w. bush is one of the figures -- its changed a little bit in recent years, but there was a huge gap between his quiet persistent charisma in private and what they used to say when he was running in '88 is george bush reminded every woman voter

of their first husband, but he was a marvelous man and not a perfect guy, let's not -- >> we'll get to that later on. not tonight. let's go to jonathan. you're a great historian as well. let's talk about this how he's written in the polls since he's been president. he's -- jimmy carter who you're working on and my friend, he's not doing as well as george herbert. for some reason bush 41 has been rising. your thoughts about that. >> i want to defer to my old colleague, jon, who's truly the great expert on george herbert walker bush, but i think the reason why he has gone up in people's estimation is two fold, one is the contrast to the current incumbent. compare bushes handwritten notes, he wrote thousands of them, very gracious notes to

friends and adversaries that were at their core, they were decent and appreciated the humanity of the other person and empathetic, compare that to tweets that we're seeing today. the other big reason i think he's going up in the estimation of historians is the way he managed the end of the cold war. so at the time it was happening, it was hard to see. we didn't have historical perspective yet, but if you look at the rise and fall of great empires, usually when they fall, there is war and they come apart and its very ugly and we had every reason to believe, you know, after the russian revolution that whenever it came apart there could be world war iii or at least squirmishing. none of this took place. why? a lot of it was george bush and jim baker and their enormous

skillfulness in the way they did not gloat. imagine if they had danced in the end zone. on the night the berlin war, they allowed gorbachev to save face. >> i want to go back to john. people like me, anybody who studied the 20th century was very nervous about germany coming back together in full strength, certainly they came back together with a lot of strength after world war i to the country's detriment and the world's detriment. what led him to make that bold decision to go and say we're going to do this, we're going to bring the two germanys together and the world will have to get used to it? >> he did have a vision thing. that's his own phrase about it, but he was reacting -- the predicate was margaret thatcher's view, it was that we don't want the germans to be

strong again. lady thatcher stole a line from the first secretary general of nato, saying the purpose of nato was to keep the american in, the germanys down and the russians out. they wanted to keep the germans down. bush always looked forward, my friend, jeff engle at smu makes a marvelous point about how bush was the first figure in '89/90 was to japan where he had almost died in 1944 in the pacific to press forward. he wanted to move on beyond the past. he was historically minded, but he really was all about the next thing. its one of the reasons he was jumping out of airplanes when he was 90 years old. he really was about forward motion. to me what's so fascinating about it -- >> actually downward motion at one point, but --

>> right. thank you. >> i wouldn't jump out of an airplane. >> the last time he jumped, he landed at st. anne's church, and mrs. bush said in her way, well, at least if he dies we'll be able to just bury him right here. that marriage went on and on. one of the things that is to me so remarkable is he always wanted to press on. he seems conservative and he seems like a buttoned down wasp and he seemed out of touch, but when i asked him early, early on, a long time ago, what are you proudest of as president, he said the reunification of germany, which as john and you both know, you don't want to hear that that's the sexiest thing you got to deal with. >> but it probably mattered the most to him. thank you so much, jon. i loved your thing with jimmy baker the other night. that was great work you and barack obama. good trio there, i'd say.

thank you so much for joining us tonight. jonathan, you'll be back later in the program. please stay with us. president herbert walker bush had a very endearing relationship with his wife barbara. she died eight months ago. take a look at george, husband, to wife. >> january 6th, 1994 for barbara pierce from ghwb. will you marry me? i forgot you did that 49 years ago but i'm even happier today. i have climbed the highest mountain in the world but even that cannot hold a candle to being barbara's husband. mum used to tell me, now, george, don't walk ahead. little did she know -- >> don't do that. little did she know what?

i was only trying to keep up. >> you can see who's dyeing their hair, by the way, since the -- you know, test of time, that marriage, something else. >> it lasted 73 years, 73 years and they were in high school when they met and fell in love -- >> what are you up to? you're pretty much up there, aren't you? >> i'm up to 37 years in my marriage. >> how about you? >> 42. >> if you combined our marriages maybe we would match the bushes. >> what am i saying, 38. you it the last interview with president bush. >> yes. it was last november almost exactly a year ago. i had been working on a biography of barbara bush and he had agreed to an interview, it was the last interview he did with a journalist. he was suffering from a form of

parkinson's disease. it robbed him of his mobility. he was using a wheelchair that was extremely frustrating for him and he understood for him and had thoughts but it was hard for him to speak. you need to ask questions in a way that could be answered in a few words. i said, you know, at this high school dance at the greenwich country club where you first saw barbara bush, do you remember what you thought and he said, i thought she was so beautiful. >> yea, she was. she had a sassy look, too. she looked like a lot of fun. >> sassy look, sassy personality. they were such a complement to one another in that she was -- had a little sharper edge than george bush did and there were times when he needed her sharper edge and there were times when she needed his softer touch. >> you always wonder about people but its good sentiment when you lose your spouse, you start to fade. >> everyone in the family nearly everyone assumed that he would

die first. that was not to be. she was ready to die before he was ready to die. he wanted another summer in kennebunkport, he told his family that. he told them he wanted to live to 102. that turned out not to be the case. his health failing, his wife gone, he lived such a remarkable life. >> he was a man of belief. he believed he was going to heaven, which i like. but the other thing about him was he was challenging death with this death defying stuff he did. first of all, the speed boat went 65 miles an hour. he wasn't some quiet waspy sairl. he whizzed around that cold water up in maine. >> don't you think that reflects what he did in world war ii. that was no small feat to enlist in the 18 to become a pilot to fly all those combat missions to be shot down. >> fished out of the water. the japanese shot him down, he gets picked up by a sub. a lot of people would think riding in the sub was scary enough. >> it looked pretty good

compared to floating out there. >> you see those pictures. >> that remarkable picture of him being pulled out of the water. >> what do you make of this as a writer and author? ronald reagan, i believe, had the best way of evoking world war ii, the swagger, we're the good guys, we're taking on the bad guys, we could win, we're going to win and the memory of that and yet he didn't see action. bush saw the most amazing action and was never -- he was like most world war ii guys or women, he never bragged or talked about it. my dad always said none of his pals talked about it. >> my father served in world war ii, never spoke of it ever. >> tell me about george senior. he didn't want to talk about what was obviously bravery. >> this was the legacy of his mother who told him don't brag and i think, politically, it was sbaering but a complication because what do -- politicians brag about themselves.

>> we've had people say that were shot at who weren't. that kind of stuff. >> the trick for writing for george bush was to drop the "i." you wouldn't say i served in world war ii, you'd say served in world war ii. >> were you down in new orleans for his -- >> yes. >> remember when he gave that speech i'm sitting up in the gallery at the super dome or whatever it is and i'm just crying. that was the most tearful -- he talked about i'm a quiet man, i'm not a good talker but i have a lot of feeling for my country. >> it was his best speech. you know where else i was earlier than that in 1980 at the republican convention in detroit, the first convention i ever covered, and we heard that reagan was choosing his running -- >> i went to do the bush hotel to do the obituary on george

bush's political career. there were six of us in the hallway -- that's how close you get and reagan calls bush and offers him the vice presidency and he comes out in the hall with barbara to talk about it to the reporters who were there, very different kind of evening than we expected to have and they clearly had a few pops when they thought they had lost and he wasn't wearing any socks. >> what? >> no socks. >> thank you so much. i love your stories. author of the upcoming book on barbara bush. look at that cover. its going to be released in april of next year. i interviewed her once. i call her tough cookie on the cover of a newspaper. our special coverage of the death of former president george h.w. bush, one of the biggest decisions of his presidency to go to the war with iraq and the

key thing, he stopped. >> have exhausted all reasonable efforts to reach a peaceful resolution. have no choice but to drive saddam hussein from kuwait by force. . because energy touches so many industries, it supports 10 million u.s. jobs. so a and as if thatyour brwasn't bad enough,tals it. now your insurance won't replace it outright because of depreciation. if your insurance won't replace your car, what good is it? you'd be better off just taking your money and throwing it right into the harbor. i'm regret that.

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leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. as commander-in-chief, i can report to you our armed forces fought with honor and valor and as president i can report to the nation aggression is defeated. the war is over. [ cheers and applause ] that was president george herbert walker bush declaring an end to the gulf war with joint session of congress. we're joined now by someone that knows all about his work. he also works at the cia during the period when george herbert walker bush was director of the cia. he was dci. tell us about him and why the

buildings been named after him he was so celebrated by the cia people. >> 1999, i think it was rob portman, he was then a -- senator now, proposed in congress that the intelligence headquarters at cia be named after george bush. we applauded that because george bush's revered as a former cia director. he came to cia at a difficult time, some viewers may remember something of those years -- the church committee which had brought to light a number of things that were very controversial about the cia and morale was in the tank at that point when george bush came and he lifted things up. he was not political at all. he was very objective. he roamed the halls. he had coffee with brand-new officers like myself. asked us what we thought and to this day, he's looked upon. in fact, 16 cia directors and former directors today issued a

statement basically saying george bush is the lone star -- the north star, if you will, for all of us as we led the cia. >> cia is something because you have men and women who go out in the dark, deep cover and frightening neighborhoods of the world and they can never get credit for it because they're spies and yet they can be killed and torture before their killed and nobody knowing about it. does the head of the cia have to be the kind of guy or woman who stands up for those people and somehow gets behind them? >> absolutely. one of the things i recall from my time in the leadership of the cia is, when we were having a rough time sometimes justifiably, sometimes not, we'd get a note from george bush saying keep your head up, power through it, learn from whatever you're doing, carry on, people will support you. he was always very supportive. that was very characteristic of him on a personal level because many times i briefed him,

including during his presidency and after, and you would always get a personal handwritten note referring to you personally and what you talked about and signed by president bush. >> his belief in public service is something we're missing today. we're not talking about president trump, but i'm obviously talking about this belief in people like yourself who served the country for their whole lives. the fbi was under the attack by the nra. they referred to the fbi as jack booted thugs and he quit. >> yea. thinking about everything people have said about george bush today, i think what's going on here is that in his passing and in all of the things that we're remembering about him, its his last act of public service because it underlines for everyone that kindness, consideration, respect for others can coexist with great power. he had great power. when i first briefed him in the

oval office, the first time i entered that place rather nervous as a young man, we were there to brief him before a summit with gorbachev in 1989 and he asked us would you like coffee and i said, yea, he poured it and we were sort of stunned. we expected a butler to come in and do that, but he was that kind of person. there was no pretense there. put you at ease and related to you on a human level even though possess this had great power. that's a very rare quality in a leader, i think. >> let's listen to president bush reflecting on that first gulf war. >> we defined the mission and the mission was not to kill saddam hussein and certainly not to occupy iraq, the mission was to end the aggression and we went to the united nations, we tried diplomacy and when all else failed we used force, we

did what we said we'd do, what the resolutions called for, the liberation of kuwait and we came home. it was a different time but i don't have any relevant cigarettes about what we did. i thought saddam hussein would fall of his own weight when the war ended and i thought they'd throw him the hell out of there but they didn't. >> what did you make of that decision at the time? >> the most noteworthy thing about his leadership there reflecting on it, was that -- consider this. he put together a coalition of over 30 countries to go do that -- >> the arab league. >> he had the egyptians, the syrians even, for god sake and between him and jim baker they managed to construct this coalition which -- not to get too political on this day stands rather sharply in contrast with the whole idea of america first and our turning away these days

from so many multi-lateral organizations. >> that wasn't a dance learned for the occasion, either. he had spent years developing those relationships. >> he had been u.n. ambassador and the ambassador to china. when you look back on his time, it wasn't just the gulf war. that's one of the two things we remember. earlier some of your guests talked about the uniting of germany which i went through with him also. if you think about that period, there was the collapse of the soviet union as one of your guests pointed out, the collapse of an empire. there was the german problem. there was tienman square. >> what a year that was. >> that was a big deal. there was start one, reduction of nuclear weapons by about 30% with the soviet union and the gulf war, and i'll go back for a minute to collapse of the soviet union.

you think it was john alter who pointed out that when empires collapse, it takes decades for the dust to settle and there's always a war. the fact that he and baker, in particular, brought that off, i was in germany a month before the wall came down and to a person senior leaders in germany, head of the intelligence service, foreign minister, they said in our lifetime, germany cannot be united. they had that sense of permanence about their situation -- >> i was hearing that from the ambassador. they were all saying its not going to happen. thank you, sir. >> please write up all this now. >> okay. coming up, the faith of a president. franklin graham joins me now to talk about his father's relationship with george herbert walker bush. >> we were privileged in that sense, but we were far more privileged in the values we got from our parents, right and

wrong. help others. kindness. don't be a bragger, all that stuff. what i can't stand are people who had a lot who material possessions and material things and feel no sense of obligation to help others, but all i'm saying is, that -- that beyond that concept there should be this -- this desire, not of an obligation, but of real desire to help people whether you have material things or not. i just got my cashback match, is this for real?

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people are coming out to pay their respects for former president bush. he will lie in state at the u.s. capitol next week before his funeral down in houston. nbc news correspondent tammy leitner joins us now from inside the bush presidential library museum down in college station, texas. tammy, thank you so much. this texas a & m. tell us about the feeling down there. >> reporter: that's right, chris. there's been a steady stream of people coming through here, about 1,000 people today which is more than they've ever had and this library museum really gives you a sense of who former president bush was, not only as a president but as a man. him and barbara loved to entertain and if you take a look at this picture, you can see president bush sitting off in the corner to the right and barbara sitting off to the left and we're told these state dinners they did not sit at the same table, possibly to mingle with guests more.

that's a dress that barbara wore during one of these dinners. now this is about 90 acres, the museum and the library but i'm told that this is the most popular room. you can see somebody sitting behind the desk here. this is what people do. they come and sit behind a desk to see what it feels like to have been former president bush. if you take a look back here, you can see that there are pictures, these are replicas of the exact photos that he had on his desk before he was president, during his presidency and after and i'm just going to show you something down here i bet you didn't know about, if you take a look in this drawer, this is where he kept his baseball glove that he actually used at yale when he played. now this is what's called a partner desk so that somebody could sit on the other side and they could have a dialogue. on this side is a phone with a direct line to the pentagon, so anybody that was sitting over here could use that. we've been speaking with people, chris, all day and, anna, you came in from houston today as soon as you heard the news, why

was it so important for you to be here today? >> not only to pay our final respects but to kind of feel the legacy that president bush and his family has left in the houston area and living in the same town you said that it was incredible feeling just him and his family being there. >> he was always at the astros game in his healthier days. i didn't personally see him around town but he was always in the media. >> reporter: thank you so much. and chris, one other thing, president -- former president bush will be laid to rest here out back about 100 yards out back next to barbara bush and people will pay their respects there after he is laid to rest. >> thank you so much for that guide, tammy. let's turn to another important part of george bush's life. his religious faith. i'm joined by franklin graham, the son of billy graham, who had

a close relationship with the late president. let me ask you about your father who is unbelievable, as you know, and this president. >> thank you. well, they were close friends, chris, and this friendship goes back to the george h. bush's mother who was in florida and my father was playing golf at a golf course where she had a cottage and she heard that he was there and invited him to come over and he came over and she had some questions about the bible and they had a long discussion about spiritual things and, of course, she introduced my father to her son, george h. bush and that's how the relationship began, but he was a man of great faith, chris. he was very quiet about his faith. he didn't talk about it, didn't wear it on his sleeve, but he was very, very religious. he believed in god, believed in god's son jesus christ, that he

died for our sins, that god raised him to life. he believed that and he -- i believe my father and george h. bush are together today in the presence of their heavenly father in heaven. >> did you see the conversation right before he died it was in "the new york times" about the conversation between james baker his old pal who had been to everything with and he says, where you going? he said i'm going to heaven. >> he believed that, no question about it. and that's the hope of our faith, salvation of our souls and the bible says we have all sinned, chris, we've all separated from god because of our sin, but god sent his son to take our place, to die in our place and god raised him to life and if we're willing to just accept that by faith to believe it by faith, god will forgive all of our sins, my sin, your sin, every one of us, if we put our faith and trust in him. >> president bush was once

asked, what was the best thing about being president, and he said without hesitation, it was the honor of it and i think over the years progressives have not had a h that sentiment held high enough in the list of what we said, time in the behavior of president's subsequent to george herbert walker bush has taught us feeling differently and deeply and daily of the honor of the office and responding to it is something that makes the presidency under its brightest moments historically special and no one, not even presidents are perfect, but the office of the presidency is, frank, i want to ask you about that because without naming names we've had problems of our presidencies in both parties about their personal behavior, their manner. i think george herbert walker bush never embarrassed us. that's what i liked about him. he understood honor. >> well, he understood honor, you're exactly right, chris, but where did this come from? i believe it came from his faith, his deep faith in god

because these are godly traits, honesty, humility, he had compassion, he cared about others and it wasn't just while he was in office and after he left office. he didn't hold a grudge against bill clinton who took the last four years of presidency away from him, the two of them got along and they used their power as former presidents to help others. i think of haiti after the tremendous earthquake that killed several hundred thousand people, both of them served to help raise money and to help the people of haiti and also when the hurricanes hit southern texas along the gulf coast, the two of them came together to help people rebuild. he was a man of integrity but a man of compassion and these are godly traits, chris, and its something we should admire it and all of us should try to obtain. >> the our father includes the line forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. i don't know if politicians are used to that transaction, but

why do you think he was? why do you think he accepted the word there so well? >> because he believed it. it just wasn't words, chris. this was part of his life. it was part of his being and he just believed god, just trusted god had great training from a godly mother and so family's very important. if you look at george h. bush's family. he's got an incredible family and i think that may be the legacy of this man, is not just his presidency but an incredible family that he lives behind. >> i agree with you. we'll talk about it later, a gesture of one of his sons to my old boss tip o'neill. they are a great family. thank you for coming on "hardball" tonight. you're a great family. thank you so much. in the spring of 1989, actually, newly inaugurated president george bush invited my

wife and i for dinner in the family quarters and a movie. this all really happened in 1989. there was a small obstacle, a conflict my parents were scheduled to be visiting us on the way back from their annual winter trip to florida. well, there was another conflict, mom was experiencing early signs of alzheimer's. fortunately a close friend of ours a reporter with contacts with the first lady's office back then, barbara's office, passed word to president bush who welcomed all four of us that night, the magic began when we arrived at the upstairs of the white house. at the very top of the stairs by the bushes, president and first lady bush, the president had changed for social time with a blazer on and gray trousers. very clubby that guy. he grabbed my two parents and disappeared for the longest time into the upstairs where the family lives. mrs. bush gathered us and some other guests and took us on a tour of the family living rooms, the lincoln bedroom and the

other works. i don't know how much later but i was standing out on the truman balcony overlooking the south lawn, i will never forget this, when i looked through the french doors to see three people chatting away like old pals, dad, mom and the president of the united states. i remember over dinner later that evening when my dad signalled to me in language that required no words that this was the greatest night of his life. i remember something from that night. during that evening, president bush commented about the matthews family being democrats. well, i said that the family was overwhelming and historically republican, that i was the exception. well, it must have been months later, several months, in fact, that i was sitting in the roosevelt warm of the west wing for a press briefing for my newspaper and a few minutes after the briefing was over, i noticed president bush heading down the long table length to me and when he arrived in front of me he paused, quote, so is your father changed your mind about

things yet? what a mind, what a heart, what a nice gentleman. i had a hard time being tough on him after that especially when dad asked me to be nice for what he'd done. i tried. we'll be right back. i love the holidays. because it's the time of the year when the whole family gets together. oh, boy. clearly good looks run in the family. (chuckle) ring in the holidays with great deals across the buick lineup. like 17% below msrp on most 2019 buick envision models when you finance through gm financial. that's over $8,100 on this envision premium. discover.o. when you finance through gm financial. i like your card, but i'm absolutely not paying an annual fee. discover has no annual fees. really? yeah. we just don't believe in them. oh nice. you would not believe how long i've been rehearsing that. no annual fee on any card. only from discover.

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breaking news now of the a top kremlin spokesman just talked to nbc news about the allegations of business dealings between president trump's associates and the russians. nbc kir simmons is in argentina. he spoke exclusively with the press secretary. keir? >> reporter: demeetri showed me his cell phone and on it the emails that his office received from michael cohen, president trump's former lawyer.

those emails stood out for me in one particular way at the bottom of the email in capitals it says, executive vice president and special counsel and again in capitals, trump. so no one could have missed in the kremlin where these emails -- where this email was coming from and yet, he tries to say it was another american businessman trying to do business in russia. take a listen. >> you obviously realize that this was coming from the office of the candidate for the american presidency. >> every week, every week, dozens and dozens of foreign businessmen are approaching us, mentioning possible investments searching for contacts. >> this is different. this is from the lawyer -- >> for us its not different. >> for future president trump, this from the lawyer for the future president trump. >> for you he's a future president trump, for me its one of the applicants. you have to understand that.

you have to understand that. we have an open email address that is public and dozens and dozens of applications are coming every week from businessmen, from -- well, whatever. lots of people from all over the world. >> reporter: i tried to ask him about potential contact with other people close to mr. trump and he seemed to suggest that he didn't know, but chris, you've got to remember that there was a time when we were hearing from the russians that this was all just fake news and there you have a man so close to president putin talking about contact with a man so close to president trump. >> on the nail, sir, thank you. what a scoop. thank you. coming up, we return to our special coverage on the passing of george herbert walker bush. flags at the white house, there they are, are at half-mast.

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leaving office. joining me now former senator of wyoming, allen simpson. thank you for coming on tonight. >> chris, it's always good to do that. we used to do a little of that in the old days. sure did. >> what do you make of this guy? because he had the courage and the patriotism to do something he thought nobody should, cutting the deal in 1990 to raise taxes in order to create the economy that bill clinton evidently later enjoyed fully, your thoughts? >> you're wise, when you watched that, i tell you, that broke my heart. they went out to andrew air base, put together a deal with two year budgeting, had every bell and whistle in it, they

came to bush said we have to have revenue, he said that'll be the end of me, they said no. we promise to get it done on a bipartisan basis. they said we'll take it to the senate we got a good vote. it went to the house, and the house, many thinking of running for president, they said we agree with it but now we see it's more taxes. we're going to have to band together and crush it. take up the roll call vote on that vote and it'll make you gag. >> on his part i think it wasn't -- he knew there was no win in raising taxes. you have to be pretty far left to think there's a win in taxes going up. he wasn't left. >> no. he knew that. but he always knew -- his view was always the country came first, not democrats, not republicans, but the country.

he saw that package and dole and gingrich saw the package but it didn't work when they got back to the house. it was a shabby way to treat him. >> let's skip the president right now because he's going to cause trouble on a night we should all unite. let's talk about bush the guy. went to yale, the old family yankee connections because down in texas becomes a wildcater, a cowboy american made it on his own, went out and said i'm going to make money on my own in the american way, digging for oil and drilling for oil. he did seem to have something of the cowboy in him even those he came from that press see the jous background. >> he wore the cowboy boots with the lone star on them. he was in the oil business. he was a wonderful man.

he had the greatest sense of humor. i started off a little shrill there, but let me tell you he never held any hatred or regret from anyone. he never said i'll get them. you know, revenge, retribution, those things were never in his vocabulary. that was the amazing thing about him. he had a tremendous passion for life, where hatred carried in, he wasn't about to buy it. i never saw him get huddled and snarled up and talk about it. he didn't. but we had a lot of fun together. >> how did he handle losing 92? >> he felt badly. i called him that night and said, george, it's a tough one. he said, i let you down. i let all of you people down. i said, you didn't let us all down. i mean, 20% of the people voted for ross perot, and he was

telling the right things, talking about the debt and the deficit. but nobody on the big course was playing with that one. now he -- i said, quit beating yourself up. you're not that kind. you don't do that, but, you know, he had a mother that, kind of like mine, they knew each other -- our mothers knew each other, we called them the velvet hammers. she said, you know, in a vote, you always vote a vote for your opponent in a grade school election. i did that once and lost by a vote, i said that's the worst thing i ever got into it. george said he did that, too. so sportsmanship, loyalty, don't toot your own horn. get off your soap box. don't be arrogant. you know, all those things were ingrained in him and impregnated in him. >> we lost him, we still got you, senator. what a family, you and your

beautiful wife. great to have you on on this so let me occasion. you it is not a sad occasion, it's a solemn occasion. >> we've been talking all day about the things we did together, the hunting, fishing, snowing snowballs off the top of the white house, we did notify the secret service first because they said who are those guys throwing snowballs off the white house. >> allen simpson, son of a governor of the great state of wyoming, thank you very much, sir. coming up preparations for a state funeral for president bush coming along already. how will he be remembered back home in texas?

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