>> so to be clear, mr. trump has no financial relationships with any russian oligarchs? >> that's what he said, i -- that's what i -- that's obviously what the proposition is. >> good morning and welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm jonathan capehart in for joy reid, who's in south africa for the global citizen festival. the nation continues to mourn the death of president george h.w. bush, who died friday night at the age of 94. we'll have the latest on the plans for his memorials later this hour. but first, it was, shall we say, an active week in special counsel robert mueller's investigation, with new details unveiled about trump's efforts to build a trump tower moscow during the campaign and the lies he told ever since. it's clear mueller is connecting the dots and now we're finally getting a clearer glimpse at the big picture. my colleague, rachel maddow, is piecing the puzzle together, too. and on friday night laid it all out on the table.

it's must-watch television, and if you missed it, here it is, in its entirety. >> after what has just been a remarkable week in the courts this week, which started with prosecutors in the special counsel's office declaring that paul manafort had been lying to them, saying he was in breach of his cooperation agreement, the president's lawyers then bragging publicly that they'd been using paul manafort as a way to gather intelligence on what the special counsel was up to in the russia investigation. manafort had been secretly informing the white house about his interactions with prosecutors since he supposedly became their cooperating witness. after all that this week, what we learned today about manafort in court is that he's not actually going to be sentenced until march. march 5th, which means a lot more time at home. his current home, which is jail. that said, next week, a week from today, the special counsel's office says that they will turn in to the court, in

manafort's case, they're going to submit their detailed accounting of how exactly manafort had bes been lying to , how he breached his cooperation agreement with them. this week, between the manafort explosion and the michael cohen guilty plea about trump tower moscow yesterday, we have already had quite the rollout this week from the special counsel's office about what they've got and who else should be worried about the evidence that robert mueller and his team have assembled. well, now we know, as of this court appearance today, that at the end of next week, next friday a week from today, we'll get another big dose of that as it pertains to paul manafort, the president's jailed campaign chairman. but here's the thing, even before then on tuesday, we're going to get yet more, because on tuesday of next week, that's the deadline for mueller's prosecutors to file their memorandum in aid of sentencing for michael flynn. mike flynn is, of course, the

first national security adviser to president trump. he pled guilty last year to lying to federal investigators about his contacts with the russian government, contacts in which he discussed the possible lifting of u.s. sanctions against russia. and next week, on tuesday, we are going to get a whole new narrative from mueller's office about flynn's crime, his cooperation or lack thereof, and anything else they want to share, because they believe it will be of relevance to what kind of sentence he's going to ultimately end up getting. and it sort of couldn't come at a better time, because all of a sudden, now, this week, we the public just got a much clearer and frankly, much more worrying view of the crime that mike flynn pled to. and maybe even why he might have done it. so, i think this is worth sort of focusing on pretty intently, not only in terms of buttoning up what we learned over the course of this week, but what's about to come next.

we know that more shoes are going to drop, we know we're going to get a bunch more information from the special counsel's office in the next few days. focus in on this flynn thing just for a second. mike flynn had some unusual russia ties during the campaign, right? he had visited russia, at the russian government's behest, just as trump was declaring his run for president. soon after he got back from russia, he signed up to join trump's campaign, which was a surprise. mike flynn had been a registered democrat. it later emerged that mike flynn had not only sat with vladimir putin at a gala event on that russia trip, he also led a standing ovation for the rnussin president at that gala event. he was also paid by the russian government to attend that event. they paid all expenses for him and his son and then they paid him a pretty good fee on top of that. flynn initially denied it, but it was all later proven out and then he admitted it. then in the presidential transition after trump won, flynn, as the designated national security adviser for the incoming administration, he

contacted the russian government multiple times, to talk to them about u.s. government sanctions against russia, to encourage russia, at one point, not to retaliate against new measures that were taken against russia by the obama administration in response to russia messing with our election. flynn is the guy who called them and said, basically, don't hit back, don't worry. trump's going to be in there soon, i'm going to be in there soon, and then you won't have anything to worry about. we're going to take care of all the sanctions. that's what the fbi and federal prosecutors came to know that mike flynn had done. but he lied about it, publicly, at the time. he denied that he was having any such conversations. and then he apparently lied to the fbi about it when they came calling about it, too. that's what he ended up pleading guilty to. and we're going to learn more about that on tuesday, finally, in open court. but there's always been something kind of hard to figure out about the flynn case. and this has been a real point of focus for critics of the mueller investigation on the right. and i don't know how they're going to answer what we've now learned about this situation,

but we now have a much better understanding of what happened here, right? the big question about flynn, and this is in particular has been raised over and over again by critics of the mueller prosecution, big question, why did mike flynn lie about this stuff? i mean, he was the designated incoming national security adviser. it was a little weird, it's a potentially a logan act violation for the incoming national security adviser to be calling a foreign government, undermining u.s. existing policy and the existing u.s. president. it's a little weird, but the logan act has never actually been used to prosecute anybody. and given that flynn wasn't just some average private citizen, given that he really was the incoming national security adviser, it would be a little weird, but it wouldn't be that weird, for him to be making those kinds of calls with russia. policy is about to change, consider that when you're measuring what your response should be to this latest action from the lame-duck outgoing president. it's a little weird, it's not

that weird. but for some reason, mike flynn felt like he was doing something with those calls that could not come out. for some reason, he felt like he was doing something that really needed to be secret. and it wasn't just him. that's how they all were on this issue of russian sanctions. you might remember k.t. mcfar l mcfarland. she was a fox news pundit, and for a hot minute, she became the top deputy national security adviser under mike flynn. thanks to the "new york times" reporting on the transition at the time, we know that k.t. mcfarland was in on what mike flynn was doing on these calls to russia. but nevertheless, she lied about it, too. she lied about it famously to the senate under oath, which scuttled her chances of becoming an ambassador. that's what they tried to do with her after flynn had to resign and then he pled guilty. but, you know, in terms of k.t.

mcfarland and her lying about these russian sanctions discussion, reporter shane harrison and devlin barrett at "the washington post" had this remarkable, remarkable piece about her back in skpeeptember it didn't get that much attention at the time, but now turns out to be pretty important. in that piece in "the washington post" in september, we learn that not only did k.t. mcfarland lie to the senate about those conversations with russia about sanctions, she lied to the fbi about those conversations, too. quote, a former top white house official, k.t. mcfarland has revised her statement to investigators about a key event in the probe of russian interference in the investigation. when fbi agents first visited k.t. mcfarland, she denied ever talking to mike flynn about any discussions of sanctions between him and the russian ambassador during the presidential transition. for a time, investigator sauce her answers as inconsistent, putting her in legal peril as the fbi tried to determine whether she had lied to them.

not long after flynn's guilty plea, mcfarland was questioned by investigators again about her conversations with flynn. and in that subsequent conversation with investigators, she walked back her previous denial that sanctions were discussed. quote, eventually mcfarland and her lawyer convinced the fbi that she hadn't intentionally misled the bureau, she had rather spoken from memory without the benefit of any documents that could have helped her remember the exchanges with flynn. quote, mueller's team appears to be satisfied with k.t. mcfarland's revised account, according to people familiar with the probe. but here's the amazing thing. so k.t. mcfarland told the fbi, no, we didn't talk to russia about sanctions, even though they did. then flynn pleads guilty to lying to the fbi about talking to russia about sanctions. after flynn pleads guilty, she goes back and tells the fbi, oh, wait, oh, wait, sanctions? is that what you were talking about?! i am so sorry, i plum forgot.

but now i remember. yeah, i think we probably did talk to the russians about sanctions. i'm so sorry. and the fbi decided not to charge her, because they believed her, that she just forgot? here's the next line in that remarkable story from shane harris and devlin barrett. quote, just days after flynn talked to the russian ambassador, mcfarland said that her memory was clear and that flynn and the russian official had never discussed sanctions. quote, early on the morning of january 13th, 2017, mcfarland phoned one of the authors of this article -- so one of the two reporters. quote, mcfarland insisted in an on the record conversation that flynn and the russian ambassador had never discussed sanctions. mcfarland said that flynn called me right after his call with kislyak and conveyed the details of their conversation. so k.t. mcfarland knew that flynn talked to russia about

sanctions. k.t. lied publicly about whether they talkeded to russia about sanctions. she lied to reporters. she lied to the u.s. senate about it. she lied to the fbi about it. but then they apparently forgave her when she said, oh, it was so long ago, i forgot, maybe. mike flynn also lied about those conversations he had with russia talking about sanctions. he lied in public. he lied to reporters. he lied to the fbi. why were they lying about it? i mean, on its face, they didn't need to. it would make sense that they would be talking about sanctions to the russian government, conceivably. they're the top two national security officials in the national security council for the incoming administration. obviously, there's going to be a change of policy on the matter. it's not that weird. but they lied about it. and the fact that they were lying about it meant that those two senior trump administration officials, the number one and number two officials at the national security council under this new president, they were both compromised by russia.

from the very beginning. from the transition. because, of course, russia knew the truth, right? russia was on the other end of the phone. they knew that these guys had been having conversations about russia. right? it wasn't secret from russia. but it was being kept secret from the american public, the american press, the american congress, and even the fbi. and that is called leverage, right? that means russia compromised them both. russia was in a position to lord something over the both of them. that these two plainly wanted kept a secret, because they were lying about it, even under oath, and even when talking to federal investigators. why did those two want it secret? it remains unknown. i mean, trump himself on the campaign trail, he attracted plenty of controversy for talking about sanctions. for his seeming i inexplicable insistence that the u.s. should drop sanctions against russia. this was the first time that

trump talked about sanctions on the campaign trail, july 11th, 2015. >> i believe i would get along very nicely with putin, okay? and i mean, where we have the strength. i don't think you'd need the sanctions. i think that we would get along very, very well. i really believe that. >> that's the first time trump talked about sanctions on russia as a soon-to-be presidential candidate. "i don't think you need the sanctions." and david corn and michael isikoff spoke russian roulette, they pointed out, who exactly asked that question of trump? who need him up at that event in las vegas in july 2015? to pronounce publicly that the u.s. should drop sanctions on russia. it was this person. >> okay. let's go. >> mr. trump, sorry -- >> yes, ma'am? >> i'm from russia. >> ahhh. >> so my question will be about foreign politics. if you were elected as president, what will be your foreign politics especially in the relationships with my country and do you want to continue the politics of

sanctions of both economy or you have any other ideas? >> that person who first asked trump as a presidential candidate about sanctions on russia, prompting trump for the first time ever to publicly say, hey, let's get rid of sanctions on russia, that is maria butina, who is now famous! she is now in federal custody on charges that she is a secret agent of the russian government, who was sent here to influence the u.s. election in order to benefit the government of russia. it was a weird thing at the time for trump, alone, among republicans and democrats and everyone to come out and say, we should drop sanctions on russia, all right? it was weird at the time in itself. it is weird in a whole new way now that we know it turns out to have been an alleged secret agent of the russian government who set him up to publicly do that in the first place. but while he at least was willing to advocate publicly for dropping the sanctions on

russia, what he was lying about at the time, what he was refusing to acknowledge at the time is that if the u.s. government actually did that, actually did drop sanctions on russia, that would be a huge personal financial windfall for him. because now we know that trump and his business at that time were secretly negotiating a gigantic business deal in moscow. a trump tower moscow that would be financed to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars by a russian bank. a bank specifically that was under u.s. sanctions. so if it's a sanctioned bank, americans can't do business involving that bank. trump took this weird outlier political stance that he wanted to drop sanctions on russia. he just conveniently didn't mention his personal involvement in a gigantic real estate scheme that could only go ahead if the u.s. dropped sanctions. i mean, trump knew that at the time, although he lied about it repeatedly. he insisted over and over again that he had no business interests in russia whatsoever. but trump knew that he did. and russia knew that he did. i mean, the kremlin, we now know, was actively involved in

discussions with the trump organization about the financing, about the building project. according to buzzfeed, even about putin's personal sweetener in the deal, which would be a free $50 million penthouse that he could keep for himself in the deal, free for nothing. so trump knew this was in the works, but was keeping it secret. the kremlin knew it was in the works. they knew that trump was keeping it secret. they even helped him keep it secret. in a call with reporters, the senior kremlin official who was apparently managing this project for the russian government, he put out a statement denying any kremlin involvement. he said, we don't respond to such business topics, it is not our job. asked specifically about reports that michael cohen had e-mailed this official's office in the kremlin about the project, this russian official, dmitry peskov responded, quote, we left that without a response. well, from michael cohen's plea in court yesterday, we know that peskov's actually did reply to him. so that means that the kremlin was helping cover this thing up,

too. just -- just step back from this a second, right? this means during the transition, the top two national security aides in the incoming trump administration were compromised by russia. russia had leverage over them because of them lying about their dealings with russia. but also, as a presidential candidate, trump was definitely, we now know, compromised by russia. he was lying about his dealings with russia and russia knew it and russia was helping him to keep the secret, right? so this is bad. we've got a presidential candidate, for one thing, offering a $50 million gift -- it's a gift -- to a foreign leader, secretly. so he's compromised on that, right? they can expose him for that, if they want to. russia has already compromised him, because he is lying about this ongoing business pursuit in russia and russia's plan to provide him hundreds of millions of dollars for that real estate project, if he gets those sanctions lifted. he's lying about that. he's not mentioning his personal stake in the sanctions issue,

when he's talking about sanctions, so russia has him compromised on that, too. i mean, the secret moscow deal is damning enough. it's damning enough that a criminal cover-up effort is launched. that includes the president's lawyer, at least him, lying to congress under oath about the deal. congressman jim himes from the intelligence committee was here last night and told us that it might not just be michael cohen who is in on the cover-up. congressm congressmanhe himes telling us there were not a lot of inconsistencies on the issue of trump tower moscow. meaning a lot of people under oath on the intelligence committee told the same story as michael cohen and michael cohen just pled guilty to a felony because his story was a lie. if other people were telling the same lie about the secret moscow deal, if other people were organized so that they would all tell the same lie, all of those people will not only be in trouble themselves and soon, since the transcripts of their

testimony are going to mueller as soon as the democrats are sworn in, but if there was anybody who coach ordinaed or orchestrated that cover-up so they would all say the same thing, well, that's a heck of a lot worse, right? who was in a position to do that? well, now here's how this whole thing all fits together, which is bad. in the criminal information filed alongside michael cohen's guilty plea yesterday, the special counsel's office says that the trump tower moscow project involved direct contact with the kremlin, it involved plans for trump organization personnel, including potentially trump himself to visit moscow and meet with senior government officials. very senior russian government officials. the criminal information also says that the project also involved more consultations with trump himself than had previously been admitted to. but it also says that the project went along for months longer than had previously been admitted to. it went all the way into the summer of 2016, after trump had wrapped up the republican primaries and become the

presumptive republican nominee. so it went on for months longer than they had previously admitted. but the sway the special counsel tells it in the cohen court filings, it did come to a rather dramatic and specific halt on a specific date. on june 14th, 2016. the two trump organization guys, michael cohen and felix sater, who were working on the trump tower moscow project, they met in the lobby of trump tower on june 14th, 2016, and on that date cohen told sater, i'm not going to moscow. june 14th. that date is in mueller's filing along with cohen's guilty plea. june 14th, 2016, which is the day that "the washington post" published the first national news story exposing the fact that russian government hackers had broken into the democratic party's headquarters and started to steal stuff. felix sater himself affirmed to nbc news last night that that story, the story about russian government hackers being exposed for their role in trying to get into our elections, that was the reason they stopped working on the trump tower project that

day. this secret project they'd been working on for many, many, many months, including direct contact with the kremlin and planned travel to moscow and -- stopped that day. why? what was the connection between those two things? what's the connection between russia basically burglarizing the presidential election to help trump and the big real estate deal trump was secretly working on in russia during the campaign? why does one have to stop when the other one gets exposed? well, what if they're both the same project? the person in the kremlin who was working with the trump organization to facilitate the moscow real estate deal is dmitry peskov, on the right there with vladimir putin. peskov goes so far as to personally lie to the press to keep the moscow deal a secret, to keep trump's secret for him, while trump is lying about it to the american public. peskov is also suspected of having a major role, perhaps even the chief executive role, in the campaign to interfere in the elections, to help clinton and -- excuse me, to hurt

clinton and help her opponent. i mean, if the big-picture russian dream here so to have their very own president of the usa. if their deal is to compromise an american presidential candidate, so that candidate is beholden to them, and then install that compromised candidate as president, then the trump tower moscow project, which compromises trump, and the election interference campaign, which is designed to install them, those are the same op. compromise your guy, then install your compromised guy. world domination in two easy steps. of course, in order for the moscow deal to even seem viable, though, you would need to free up the financing that would make the whole thing possible. and this russian state-controlled bank, vtb, is committed to financing the project. that's who's going to finance the thing. so the thing you need is for them to be allowed to finance the project. and in order for them to finance

the project, they need to not be sanctioned. so you need your compromised u.s. presidential candidate and then ultimately, his administration to get that done for you, to get rid of the sanctions. right? that's the gear that makes the whole wheel spin. so trump publicly advocates that, when prompted by someone who is now in custody as an alleged russian agent. mike flynn and k.t. mcfarland secretly start working on it, including with the russian government. and then they lie about it publicly and to the press and to the congress and even to the fbi. sanctions advocacy isn't such a terrible thing for them to be doing as a stand-alone thing. but if it was part of this kind of scheme, then, yeah, maybe that would explain why they were being so surreptitious about it. what else? well, we also now know that the two trump organization guys who themselves specifically were the ones working on trump tower moscow, felix sater and michael cohen, they ended up themselves, the two of them, involved in one

more scheme right before mike flynn was fired, right at the start of the trirnump administration. they were involved in a scheme to cook up yet another plan to get rid of russian sanctions. remember this story, felix sater and michael cohen involved in the secret peace deal scheme, which was really a proposal to give ukraine over to russia and drop the russian sanctions anyway. what were felix sater and michael cohen doing working on something like that? do felix sater and michael cohen scream international diplomacy and peace making to you? those guys -- those guys wouldn't even say that about themselves. but, yeah, it was those guys working on this plan to drop russian sanctions, because those guys were the ones who were making the trump moscow project happen, too. and to make that come true, it would need financing from that russian state-owned bank controlled by putin, and that couldn't happen until u.s. sanctions on russia were dropped. so the real estate guys start working on dropping sanctions in

russia. because it's part of their deal. because sanctions and a huge financial deal for trump and lying publicly about the deal for trump and lying about contacts with the russian government, it's all one thing. and it may have even all been run by the same guy, dmitry peskov, in the russian government. and so, on tuesday, mike flynn will be in court, and we will learn what robert mueller has come to know in his dealings with mike flynn since flynn pled guilty to lying to the fbi about sanctions a year ago. right before flynn comes to court, we have finally learned the answer to the biggest mystery about the case against him. why he bothered to lie about those sanctions discussions in the first place. it wouldn't have needed to be surreptitious if it was just about sanctions alone. but mike flynn and his deputy, k.t. mcfarland, and the president himself, we now know, they were all compromised by russia at the time, because of what they were lying about that russia knew the truth about. and what russia knew the truth

about is what turns out to be a fairly simple plan. compromise the candidate with promises of a secret deal, install the candidate, and then leverage the candidate to lift sanctions and free russia to do what it wants. now over this past week, we suddenly can see the full plan and how it was supposed to work. the question is whether it might still work now that it's out in the open, or whether they're caught and it's therefore over. coming up next, our panel will react to this amazing report done by rachel maddow. you're in the business of helping people. we're in the business of helping you. business loans for eligible card members

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and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. i mean, i have nothing to do with russia. i will tell you right now, zero. i have nothing to do with russia. i have no relationship to russia whatsoever. i don't deal there. i have nothing to do with russia, folks, okay? i have nothing to do with russia, folks. i have no dealings with russia. i have no deals in russia. i have no deals that could happen in russia, because we've staid away. i have nothing to do with russia. i have -- john, john, how many times do i have to say it?

are you a smart man? i have nothing to do with russia. i have nothing to do with russia. >> donald trump insisted that he had no deals in russia over the last two years, but after michael cohen's plea agreement with the special counsel this week, we know that his company was secretly pushing a deal for a trump tower in moscow as late as june of 2016. and as more information comes to light, trump continues to move the goalpost. joining me now, e.j. dionne, "washington post" columnist and co-author of one nation under trump. msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos, nigh'ra hack, and maria teresa kumar, ceo and president of voto latino. before i get your reactions to yet another rachel maddow epic explanation of what was going on, i want to play what congressman adam schiff had to play on "this week with george stephanopoulos" about michael cohen's plea this week. let's take a listen to this, first. >> when this came to light, the kremlin intervened.

mr. peskov, the spokesman for the kremlin intervened to help mr. trump and his business in the cover-up. that is so deeply compromising. and we have to remember what the mueller investigation began as the comey investigation was a counterintelligence investigation. that is, an investigation into whether donald trump and his organization were compromised. and now, via michael cohen, we find out that, yes, there was compromise. and that puts our country at risk. >> now, he was talking about dmitry peskov, who is the press secretary to russian president, vladimir putin. and our own nbc's keir simmons caught up with peskov yesterday in buenos aires and here's their conversation. >> every week, every week dozens and dozens of foreign businessmen are approaching us. mentioning possible investments, searching for contacts. >> but this is different. this is from the lawyer -- >> for us, it's not different. >> it's future president trump. >> huh?

>> this is from the lawyer to the future president trump. >> this is different. listen, for you, he's future president trump. for us, it's one of the applicants. i mean, you have to understand that. you have to understand that. >> danny, one of the applicants. give me your reaction to those two clips that we just saw, but also what rachel had to say on friday night. >> it's amazing, because rachel really drew the lines between all the dots that we needed to realize that maybe there really was a connection with russia, a financial connection and then the clear crimes were committed afterwards when everybody in the coterie went out and deceived, lied to congress, lied under oath, made false statements to cover up. and it's the old adage, the cover-up is usually worse than the crime. because the clear crime emanating from a compromised candidate at the time isn't as apparent yet as the fact that those who went out and tried to cover it up did commit federal

crimes, whether they were perjury, whether they were federal false statements. those are all prosecutable crimes and they have all been sussed out so far. >> so given what rachel explained to us just moments ago, originally on friday night, are we closer to seeing the outlines of a conspiracy? i mean, collusion is the word that everyone uses, but the real legal term we're looking for is conspiracy. are we any clearer today about how close the trump campaign and the russians were in terms of the 2016 election? >> a conspiracy is generally an agreement in the criminal law, but you need some unlawful objective. and that's what i was just talking about in that we need to find whether or not this constituted the violation of a federal law. and by that, i mean, was it a violation of federal law to essentially create a quid pro quo between ahead of a foreign government. you know, it's interesting, as i think about this, i've defended

bribery cases, and when you try to give goodies to officials in america for their official conduct, that is bribery. that can be extortion. but here you have sort of an analogy to that crime, but happening abroad in russia. it's an interesting thing that's been jumping out at me over the last day or two. >> i want to get into the politics of all of this. and let me start with you, e.j. give me your reaction from a political perspective of what rachel laid out on friday night and just the comments from congressman schiff about dmitry peskov. >> well, first, from the beginning, an awful lot of people felt that if there was a link in all of this, it was going to be money. there was going to be some linkage between russia and trump on money. and i think what was really important about the cohen plea and what rachel put together is we now see a money nexus here.

and i think that there's a sense that we're going to have one heck of a december on this case, because a whole lot of things are coming together at once. first, there is a direct link now between trump and russia on this building, and a lot of people lied about it, which is the second thing here, and which may be the legally -- one of the legally actionable issues here. and third, democrats are about to take over the congress. and adam schiff has signaled that he's going to make a lot of things public, he's going to turn investigative material over to mueller. so, i think that it is -- i think it would not surprise us if trump did some very dramatic things, to put it gently, and i think that mueller seems to be getting very, very close to drawing really clear links now between donald trump and russia.

>> you know, maria teresa, as e.j. was just saying, we're probably in for a tumultuous december, but next week promises to be super tumultuous. on or before december 4th, which i believe is tuesday -- >> that's right. >> prosecutors are to file a sentencing memo related to michael flynn, and then on december 7th, a factual filing due on paul manafort's alleged crimes and lies, which in both of these instances, we are going to get, for the first time, i think, the clear outlines of what the lies are, what the crimes were, and filling in a lot of the holes in the story that maybe even rachel was -- hasn't been able to figure out. >> right. well, she has a day job, right? >> right. >> in all seriousness, what's really interesting is the hubris of the president has pursued this case. the way i keep thinking about it is that he's icarus that's flown too close to the sun and that sun is mueller. mueller has been very

sophisticated and you could argue, has really methodically laid out a case in ways that most folks hadn't even paid attention to. if you look at the manafort agreement, he basically said that the only line that's basically missing from his agreement compared to all the other witnesses, all the other witnesses say that they cannot have conversations with anybody else about the case. that is missing from the manafort case. and now you're finding leakage that his -- that his lawyers have been speaking to the president's lawyers. it's almost as if mueller has set a trap and they've fallen into it and the president knows. my concern, though, is to see what kind of -- this type of volatility, the president with his back against the wall, what is he going to do? how is he going to deflect? what other kind of chaos is he going to create for the american people? one of the things, for example, that we saw. the more that we started hearing about the manafort plea deal, the fact that he was lying, he immediately started shifting to looking at the border. there was tear gas that happened on the border. he closed the border.

in my opinion, that was a big deflection on the part of the president. what else is he going to do? but then we also start looking at the political angle. what does this mean for the 2020 candidates? and the only person right now best positioned on the democratic side to talk about prosecution is the only prosecution that would -- the only prosecutor that we have right now on the short list, and that is kamala harris. it so will be interesting to see how that's going to play out on who is going to be possibly the nominee. but the democrats need to be able to show two things. one is that they're serious about coming to the root of who -- you know, what is happening in this investigation. but at the same time, they have to make sure that they're putting points on the board for the american people to see how they are different from both the party and from trump himself. >> you know, niera, maria teresa talked about how the president is creating chaos for the american people, but michael cohen is someone who's been creating chaos for the president. i want to play president trump's reaction to michael cohen's guilty plea on thursday. take a listen. >> what he's trying to do, because he's a weak person and

not a very smart person. what he's trying to do is end -- and it's very simple, he's got himself a big prison sentence. and he's trying to get a much lesser prison sentence by making up a story. now, here's the thing. even if he was right, it doesn't matter, because i was allowed to do whatever i wanted during the campaign. i was running my business, a lot of different things during the campaign. so very simply, michael cohen is lying and he's trying to get a reduced sentence for things that have nothing to do with me. >> niera, there's a lot going -- going on there. clearly, the president is concerned about michael cohen and what he has already told the special counsel in what was it, 70 hours worth of meetings with the special counsel. >> there's so much in that statement that reflects on donald trump's psychology, as president in this moment. i mean, the focus on his own

lawyer who previously was his consigliere, taking care of all of his projects for him and now disavowing him so publicly, even though what michael cohen saying is that he did all of this, because he was trying to help his president. to the emphasis on how everything he did in the campaign, he was allowed to do. everything's okay. mind you, this is literally on the heels of him going to a major world summit in which he's supposed to be meeting with foreign leaders, talking about all of the trade challenges that he's created, to sanctions, to the khashoggi case. all of these foreign policy challenges that he is completely dogged by and overwhelmed by what's happening here domestically in the united states. now, add on to that, the only person in this entire saga that he has not disavowed is vladimir putin. and that is -- he's literally on air force one headed over there with all of us here in the united states expecting that he would have a lengthy one-on-one

meeting with putin. he canceled meetings with turkey, critical to the khashoggi case and refugee issues, he canceled meetings with south korea, which is critical to north korea, but he was still willing to have a long session with vladimir putin. >> and with that, we'll have to leave it there -- >> can i say something, jonathan? >> i'm sorry, we have to go. >> i just wanted to build -- >> you're all coming back later in the show. up next, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin on the legacy of president george h.w. bush. (chime) - [narrator] meet shark's newest robot vacuum. it powerfully cleans from floors to carpets, even pet hair, with ease, and now for cleaning surfaces above the floor, it comes with a built in shark handheld. one dock, two sharks. the shark ion robot cleaning system. jimmy's gotten used to his whole yup, he's gone noseblind. odors. he thinks it smells fine, but his mom smells this... luckily for all your hard-to-wash fabrics... ...there's febreze fabric refresher. febreze doesn't just mask, it eliminates odors you've... ...gone noseblind to.

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i'm in for joy reid today, who's in south africa for the global citizen festival, celebrating the 100th anniversary of nelson mandela's birth. joy and the reverend al sharpton will host special coverage from the festival tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern, right here on msnbc. and another quick note, the msnbc blk series "she thrives: black women making history today" will highlight the amazing women you know this february. to nominate a woman leader making a difference in your community, just go to n nbcnews.com/s nbcnews.com/shethrives. up next, the legacy and life of the 41st president of the united states. and now we have zero account fees for brokerage accounts. at fidelity, those zeros really add up. ♪ so maybe i'll win, saved by zero ♪

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we'll always remember the incredible public contributions that he made, but to me, my grandfather was simply the world's greatest grandfather. he was simply one of the world's kindest, most decent men. >> anybody that would ask my dad, even when he was in a wheelchair, for a picture, he would -- he would stop and

graciously -- you know, he would treat everybody in houston the same, with the same amount of respect. he loved houston and i should say i'm personally grateful. >> the family of former president george h.w. bush is preparing to say their final good-byes. president bush will lie in state at the u.s. capitol until wednesday morning when a funeral service will be held at the national cathedral. president and mrs. trump will attend the funeral. former president bush's casket will then travel back to houston for a church at saint martin's episcopal church before burial at the presidential library at texas a&m university. let's bring in a presidential historian and author of the book "leadership in turbulent times." thank you for being here this morning. >> glad to be here this morning. >> we're not just mourning the passing of a president, are we? this is -- this is a

generational shift that's happening. >> i think without a question, and what you think of when we -- normally as presidential historians we look at the term of the presidency and rank it and think about how the verdict of history will read, but in his case what he represents and his generation represents is a lifetime of public service and i think that's where the verdict of history will go even deeper than his presidency, think about it, a naval eightor, envoy to china, vice president, president, congressman. and at a time when president service seemed to be a liability in the 2016 campaign, how wonderful for young people to recognize that this man led such an honorable, decent life. this is the example we want to go into public life, we wants to make it honorable again as it was for his generation. >> i want to focus on foreign policy and the time that we have. something notable happened yesterday that one of our analysts said on the air

yesterday, german chancellor angela merkel paying tribute to president bush in english. we rarely hear her speaking english. would you talk about the importance of president george h.w. bush to germany but also to europe. >> well, just think of the complexity of when the cold war was beginning to unravel, when the wall was coming down and another president might have used that moment for try ump, but he said, i don't want to stick it to them. i want them to understand that we're going to be with them. the humility that so marked his character, the alliances that he made with germany, eastern europe that allowed that to go as smoothly as it could be. little doubt that she used english for his dignity. dealing with humbleness and dealing without american triumph at the moment the cold war was

changing the whole face of europe. >> and then another war that president bush is associated with, that was the first iraq war, removing -- getting the iraqi troops out of kuwait. the so-called hundred hours war. how does that figure into president bush's legacy? >> i think once again, the building of the coalition that he made so clear before he even set foot into kuwait and i think the decision historians will argue about, whether he should have stayed in there to get saddam hussein and he believed the u.n. commission taught him to go so far. he made his decision and he lived by that decision. those are the things that he will live by. bhuns again it showed leadership in foreign policy that was sure footed, that was humble, that built a coalition that knew we needed other people and allies. it's such a contrast to where we are in so many ways today. >> yeah, the humbleness, the

humility. we have a sound bite but i'm going to read what president bush had to say in a 1997 interview, he said, we were far more privileged and the values we got from our parents, right and wrong, kindness, help others, don't be a brag ga doesh shah. what i can't stand is people who have a lot, material possessions, material things and feel no obligation to help others. that was something that was foundational to george h.w. bush. >> you know, i think the verdict of history, however it will be reached in terms of presidential historians, it's already been reached about him. i mean, what teddy roosevelt said when he was asked how do you want to be remembered by history, he said, i want to be remembered as a good and decent man, somebody who did sore advice to my country, somebody who did the best i could and whose relatives will remember that's the man i was. that's already been reached. you just listened to the relatives talking about george bush. it's not the family, it's the country and relatives who

realize how civil, decent, humble this was. will there be mistakes in his presidency? there are in all presidencies. in terms of the man, that man came through and the verdict is there. what a great thing for the people to know right now. >> president george h.w. bush, indeed a decent man. doris kearns-goodman, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> there's more "am joy" after the break.

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decorum. you can't take three questions and four questions and stand up

and not sit down. decorum. you have to practice decorum. we want total freedom in the press. that's very important to me. more important to me than anybody would believe, but you have to act with respect. >> good morning and welcome back to "am joy." i'm jonathan capeheart who's in south africa for the global citizen fegstive val. the president who has termed fake news, he has a new term, that's decorum. what trump wants is obedience. >> people have to behave. setting up a certain standard. >> those remarks came after a judge ordered the white house to reinstate the press pass for cnn's jim acosta who trump scuffled with at a press conference, a loss that trump is still brooding over tweeting, quote, while cnn doesn't do great in the united states based on ratings, outside of the u.s. they have very little competition.

throughout the world has a puerful voice. something has to be done including the possibility of the united states starting our own worldwide network to show the world the way we really are, great. joining me now is republican strategist evan siegfried, and aaron bolar and ilinia. that made me think of the scene in "bridesmaids." i just want to talk about this idea of the government starting its own or at least president trump starting his own worldwide network.

this is an idea widely exercised by dictators. that is nothing that's false about that comment. >> but it's not government, this is trump television sponsored by the government, your tax dollars. >> right. >> we have the voa. >> voice of america. >> the government supports the public broadcasting that supports public media which is independent although bends over backwards to show they're not too progressive because they don't want to be caught on that charge. i don't work for npror pbs. the real question is how are we as journalists talking about this? we're being had. american journalists, our colleagues are being taken for a

ride and we're watching as it's happening. this isn't whether there's trump tv. it's never going to happen. it's completely ridiculous. it's distraction so here we are talking about it. in many ways we are being had. i think american journalists are smarter than this. >> the president does have some control over voice of america. i wouldn't be surprised if he wants to change up things there and he views it as a competition between himself and cnn. he has cnn envy, i don't understand it. cnn international does a good job. there are plenty of other international stations out there not owned by a company that are doing international news. bbc television. the president saying this shows a lack of values of america itself.

the press can be gnats and annoying. he didn't stand up for khashoggi and he's not standing up here saying, i don't like what cnn international is putting out but i i'm glad they're doing it. >> he's not upset about the portrayal of the united states in the media, he's upset about the portrayal of him. >> him. >> i need a larger instrument. something isn't working. the cohen story was a disaster. the russia stories were disasters. if we have fox news, we will be fine. we have our own facts. i think the cohen story this week showed that's not true and i think the cohen story was just a taste of what mueller is going to deliver with the final report and indictment and fox was completely impotent this week in trying to debunk, you know, the russia stories, try to change the narrative.

they're good at smearing people, they're good at pushing hate and conspiracies. when it gets into a legal forum with mueller, prosecutorprosecu confessions, plea agreements, conservative media can't do anything and they're not able to do anything. he might be looking ahead and saying, wait a minute, when mueller delivers the goods, this isn't working. i need something else. this is an awful week for me. >> fox was very good at pointing out what's happening. he presented the facts. >> right. >> you're seeing at least on the conservative social media, michael cohen, it was clearly no collusion. they're saying, clearly mueller would have delivered the goods. >> right. >> the trials and -- >> how can you talk about american media right now? you're talking about the responsibility of our colleagues and how we're telling the story and i think we need to have a conversation about the fact that all of us right now are

susceptible to government propaganda. >> right. >> it's not a term that we as american journalists like to use. >> right. >> it is not enough in this moment for us to say we're just going to do our jobs and just report this. it's simply not enough. and sadly, and i -- it hurts to say this, but as journalists of color, we are reporting -- we are watching the at that nair r canaries in the mine as children are being shot at and we're seeing that as journalists of color, we're saying, this is a particularly important issue. people are saying, calm down. it's normal. it's okay. it's another presidency. >> don't worry about it, you're being hyperbolic. >> i got that during the campaign. i said, we have a guy running for president saying mexicans are rapists. this is not normal. state media and state-run television don't we have that with sinclair media?

i want to show just a little bit of clip -- a clip from bottom line with boris epstein. >> there are many on the left who believe it is wrong to defend our country. the notion that a car a van of migrants can be allowed to break through our borders is ludicrous and dangerous. the united states of america should not and cannot be intimidated by those willing to use force to get into our country illegally. >> after that sinclair media tweeted out an apology. we'd like to apologize about an issue reflected by boris epstein. they said it was a must run segment all networks. >> exactly. so they forced all these stations to run them. this is horrific commentary supporting the tear gassing of women and children. this was kind of an unprompted apology.

we don't know what was happening behind the scenes. one of the problems for sinclair as they get larger and larger, they're going into democratic blue markets. they're in washington, d.c, minneapolis. this is just garbage. this isn't going to play in blue states. i'm sure journalists who work there are beside themselves. this is not what they got into business for watching this parenting of white business nationalists. sinclair is discovering its limitations these days. >> i think we've seen a change in the past 12 years. in 2006 there was a story highlighting bill nelson up against katheryn harris and their positions on a woman's right to choose. the reporter ended the commentary saying if you like abortions, bill nelson is your guy. he blurred the line between

opinion and fact and we now have seen where there are more and more reporters on both sides of the aisle, at least from my perspective as a conservative, who inadvertently or willfully will blur the line. that's a disservice to journalism overall. we are missing somebody like walter cronkite who is the trusted voice, here's the facts, we know you're not putting spin on it. >> i understand what you're saying about willful blurring of the lines, but we've gotten to the point in this country and in this presidency where you have journalists who live and die by the notion that they have to be objective. i'm not talking about opinion journalists like me but news side journalists who are covering this president where the president puts them in the position of having to not editorialize or blur the lines, but say the president has lied. the president is telling falsehoods or whatever the synonym that they want to throw

in. is that blurring of the lines? >> no, we combat fallshoods with facts. >> there are a lot of conservatives out there say that telling the facts is blurring the lines. >> you guys, we have a -- come on. we have an administration that every single day has sarah sanders out there spewing lies, making things up, putting -- >> the problem is how we got here. >> yes, but the point is that as journalists, do we not have a responsibility not to just -- all we can do is report. all we can do is report and tell both sides. there is a responsibility that is long standing of american journalists beyond just the reporting. >> yes, there is. >> what do we do. it gets heated because we're passionate because what do we do when we have an administration that is lying to us on a daily

point and -- >> it's important to look back how we got to this administration. there are instances where journalists have felt sleighted. when you as a journalist speak, i'm not going to listen to you. one example is with mitt romney and the binders full of women. that was not an offensive sexist anti-woman comment. yes, we have binders 23 erers f women. when you hear it's more crying wolf. you hear more and more on that. when it's important and you have to hold the administration accountable for vicious and -- >> there's crying wolf and the wolf is in the windows. the binders full of women -- >> that's one of the old simpler times. >> the conservatives complain about the conservative media,

spiro agnew, none of it matters anymore. that's interesting. we are so far beyond that now. trump is a pathological, mentally unstable person and that's what journalists should be saying every day. >> he lies. >> euphemisms. >> exactly. we need to know that because -- because frankly we have the history of our country in our hands and to consistently clarify, this is a lie, it is a lie, today he is lying. we have to say that. we cannot sit back and let this be some kind of normality. >> 69% of americans in the past ten years have said they no longer trust the media -- >> evan -- evan, gada go. >> i was going to get the last word. >> we have already gone over. evan siegfried, eric bowler and mariana hossa, thank you for being here. a closer look at the special

counsel's special investigation and why donald trump may worry about the next move. even snl is starting to predict what's next. >> you don't see me for a while, donny. i prefer presidents who don't get indicted. >> come on, i'll buy you a llama and we'll get drunk.

i told romg ger stall this, let's get this clear. in july i was on vacation with my wife, 25th anniversary and

the family. i think flying over i figured out that assange had podesta's e-mails. i told roger in this e-mail and subsequently i thought it was podesta's e-mail. >> so you gave that to feds to mueller's prosecutors. >> it's actually the truth. >> it's also a defense. >> it is a defense. >> it's a defense. you said that to them. how did they take that? >> they didn't believe it. >> conspiracy theorist and friend of roger stone jerome corsi flatly denies having any information about the wikileaks dumps but newly revealed e-mail conversations between corsi and stone tell quite a different story about the months leading up to the 2016 election. allow me to explain. march 2016, russian hackers gain access to john podesta's e-mails. remember, john podesta was the chairman of hillary clinton's presidential campaign. next month, april, russian

intelligence hacks the dnc and dccc. then wikileaks releases stolen dnc e-mails. july 25th right at the start of the democratic convention, e-mail from stone to corsi, get to assange at an ecuadorian embassy and get the pending wikileaks e-mails. july 27th the day before hillary clinton is to accept her party's nomination, trump says, russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are listening. let's fast forward to august 2nd, e-mail from corsi to stone, word is friend in embassy plans two more dumps impact planned to be very damaging. that was the second dump that was planned. august 21st roger stone sends a very curious tweet out. it will soon be podesta's time in the barrel. nine days later stone asks corsi for help to create a, quote,

alternative explanation for podesta's tweet. now this key date of october 7th, talk to any person in clinton world and this date is zeroed seared in their memory. 3:29 p.m. they send out a statement on russia's ties to hacked e-mails. 4:03 p.m. same date, washington post david faranthol says the "access hollywood" stap released. 29 minutes later, october 27th, 4:32 p.m. wikileaks begins releasing podesta's e-mails on a daily basis. then donald trump started saying this. >> this just came out. wikileaks. i love wikileaks. i love reading those wikileaks. they've got to start talking about wikileaks. the wonder of wikileaks. we love wikileaks. boy, they have really --

wikileaks. they have revealed a lot. wikileaks. wikileaks. that came out on wikileaks. this wikileaks stuff is unbelievable. it tells you the inner heart. you've got to read it. >> joining me now is msnbc legal analyst dahna is a vallos and nyra hack both coming back to the show. i want to put up roger stone's statement here. roger stone put it out saying none of these e-mails provide any evidence or proof that i knew in advance about the source or contact of any of the allegedly stolen or allegedly hacked e-mails published by wikileaks. danny, i mean, we're talking about roger stone here. can we believe him? do you believe him? give me your legal analysis here. >> we have to take a step back and look at what would be a crime. it may surprise some to learn that if roger stone and jerome corsi had mere knowledge, if they only knew this was going to

happen and did absolutely nothing to encourage, solicit, to assist anything like that, the law does allow a citizen to know of a conspiracy and the law does not require someone to necessarily report that conspiracy. what makes you a participant in that conspiracy is if you agree and agree to achieve that conspiracy's unlawful objective and do something in the realm of participation. if roger stone asked jerome corsi to go get those e-mails or go get that stuff from assange, that, however slight, would probably meet the level. >> now are we to believe the denials from roger stone, either in that statement or from jerome corsi as he said in ari melber's show this past week? >> no. everybody involved in trump's orbit has been peddling furiously to get themselves away from any of the behavior they've kpibed in the campaign. in the campaign what we know in

addition to wikileaks, in addition to all of the connections with russia is the evidence presented by 17 national intelligence agencies that russia was interfering in our election. that is a reality and a fact independent of any of the legal arguments of having to prove something in court. there is a horrible unseemly connection between trump, people in his on by the and russia and particularly vladimir putin himself. it goes right to the top. the fish -- the fish rots at the head. that is what we're seeing right now and everybody is paddling furiously to try to get themselves away from the legal entanglements they themselves created in the campaign that unfortunately now that he's in the white house are going to be the albatross he bears around his neck. >> danny, jerome corsi says he's going to file a complaint against mueller. let's play that. >> i've been instructed by

attorneys to file on monday a criminal complaint against the mueller investigation and against the department of justice for its supervision of the mueller investigation. the complaint will be filed with the acting attorney general whitaker and it will be intended to go to the office of professional responsibility and the department of justice and also to the inspector general of the department of justice horowicz. >> is this bluster? >> he can instruct his attorneys to file this. what instead i think what he's talking about is not even a civil complaint but an ethical type of complaint. >> right. >> which a citizen may be able to file, but under no circumstances are citizens allowed to start charging or filing criminal complaints or informations against certainly

members of the department of justice. he's a little misinformed there. >> this is what they do, all the people again, trump himself does this. they try to deflect and throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. this is catley what they did with wikileaks. this is what they did any time they mentioned hillary e-mails. there's nothing in the content there where they hope to confuse this and stop paying attention and stop caring about the mueller investigation. so they're trying to overwhelm us and it's important to remember that the devil is in the details. >> right. that gets to the point danny was making a second ago about this isn't -- what he's saying, it's not really a criminal complaint, it's an ethical complaint. if you are a supporter of the president and you believe that what the president said is criminal or a witch hunt, you'll take that as mueller is up to no good, he is involved in some

criminal against an ally. president. to my mind he's playing a bit of rhetorical jujitsu here or is he confused? >> i think he's confused, and if he's confused i have faith in the american public. the people who file criminal complaints are federal and state prosecutors they're not citizens frustrated with an investigation being conducted against him. while he can instruct his attorneys to do that, as an attorney i get lots of instructions from clients to do things that we just cannot do. >> in the less than a minute we have left, i have to ask you. we have two big dates coming up, tuesday michael flynn, friday the chairman, manafort, i was thinking mueller. >> manafort. >> manafort, what should we be looking for in these two big events? >> manafort. absolutely manafort. the sentencing memorandum will

have interesting material but the man na ford filing will be an opportunity for special counsel mueller, who knows he has to submit a report but mueller's found a way to speak to all of us through highly detailed diemts. this is an opportunity for mueller to ar tech cue late all of the things he fibbed about. >> it's going to be a long week. danny and nyera, thank you. coming up next, roger stone is back this morning. we'll show it to you after the break.

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where is the crime? i engaged in politics. my purpose was to take a tip which i thought to be solid and then after that to follow the wikileaks twitter feed and send

a google news alert for julian assange and used twitter to hype as much voter and media attention to the disclosures when they came as politics. you were in this business once. that's called politics. >> roger stone is on the defensive this morning after revelations that special counsel has e-mail exchanges in which stone discusses the wikileaks e-mail dump with his pal jerome corsi. stone says it's not evidence of a crime, just politics. the final determination will be up to the special counsel who has already begun closing in on multiple stone associates. back with me are e.j.dionne, maria-teresa kumar and korean jeanpierre. since you're the newbie, i'll start with you. here's what roger stone had to say about the e-mails. >> going back to the e-mail, i think those are being mischaracterized saying that these dumps are coming turns out

to be completely incorrect. they don't come in early august as predicted by mr. corsi and there's no reference in that e-mail to john podesta's e-mails, either. it simply says podesta will be exposed to the american people, whatever that means. >> but, korean, as i pointed out in that sort of memory wall, he did then reach out to jerome corsi, hey, i need to come up with an alternative vision for that tweet that i sent out. >> that's exactly right, jonathan. look, there's no secret that robert mueller has been zeroing in on roger stone for some time now. you don't need a crystal ball to know that or see that an indictment is coming his way. roger stone is going to be indicted, it's just a matter of time. he's registered as a dirty trickster. he plays in conspiracy theories. he's a long-term business partner of paul manafort who is an indicted felon. he is the longest serving, if

you think about it, aide to donald trump, even served longer than cohen -- than michael cohen. so he also has admitted to speaking to a russian nationalist named henry greenberg or who asked to get paid $2 million so, i mean, roger stone has been handling this. when he goes after mobsters, when he goes around, talked to, interviewed, subpoenaed at least eight people around roger stone. roger stone is in a lot of trouble right now. >> e.j., roger stone is, as corrinne, is probably in a lot of trouble. one of the things prosecutors are looking for is for him to turn on the president. here's what roger stone had to say in that.

>> there is no chance i'd testify against the president. i'd have to bear false witness. i'd have to make things up and i'm not going to do that. i've had no discussion regarding a pardon. >> e.j., i have another question for you. i want maria-teresa kumar to take that one. clearly, i'm not going to do that. i've had no discussions regarding a pardon. doth the lady protest too much? >> what's so interesting is if folks join me in going back to the future in june where he was basically saying, well, mueller must not have anything on me because he hasn't called. sit tight, roger, after tuesday. the tables may have turned. i think what you're seeing is this evidence of roger stone saying, don't worry. if something happens, i want to make sure something happens when it comes to me when you are thinking down to the pardon. >> e.j., here's the clip i want you to react to.

this is congressman adam schiff reacting to roger stone's interview on abc. take a listen. >> those exchanges with corsi, which i think he provided to the press, the substance of those e-mails are inconsistent with the committee, the mere testimony was delivered with the same conviction that he 345ids to you this morning. that testimony needs to be provided to the special counsel for consideration of whether perjury charges are warranted. >> and so, e.j., that's what roger stone faces, the possibility of perjury. >> well, i think that we're seeing all over the place the significance of the democrats taking over the congress and of the possibility that an awful lot of this testimony will be made public, will be turned over to mueller. i think there's something quite

insidious about this when you hear what roger stone said at the beginning. he says that he's trying to say that, well, this is normal politics. well, yeah, negative campaigning is alas a part of politics as usual. cooperating with a foreign power is not politics as usual and i think what we're seeing here is the steady downward cycle that the trump folks are encouraging. they increase our cynicism by the way they behave and then they use that sin know civil to make the kind of everybody does it arguments that roger stone made. president trump says, well, michael cohen is lying, but even if he's lying, it doesn't matter. so what you've got is a constant moving of the goalposts here and the goalposts are now way outside the stadium of normal politics in a democratic

government. >> the video, this was just politics, i didn't mean anything by it. but in the time line i explained one of the e-mails was from corsi to roger stone, word is, plan depends and have more than hillary clinton's campaign chairman to be exposed as in bed with enemy. hillary rodham clinton. how does that even -- how december roger stone say with a straight face that he just set up a google alert for wikileaks and julian assange? that in particular e-mail is damning? >> yeah, they want the american people, american public to believe that they, meaning corsi and roger stone -- ignore the

evidence. to believe them, they just got lucky or it was politics. we're not stupid. one person who is certainly not stupid is robert mueller. >> there's another e-mail i didn't get -- >> the e-mails, jonathan, e-mails. >> e-mails. >> i'm talking about his e-mails. from roger stone to corsi where roger stone says get a song an ecuad ecuadorian embassy and get the pending wikileaks e-mails. how do any of you take -- except for corrinne -- >> so i actually think -- i think that whether you're ta talking about roger stone or corsi, they are using these spots on television to say, hey, we are actually on your side.

when you start thinking about pardons, cohen clearly crossed the line. you're throwing him under the bus. don't do that with us, we're still in your courts here. the one thing i kind of believe roger stone on is i don't think he will turn on the president unless maybe some day he faces 100 years in jail. >> right. >> could i just -- >> go ahead. who was going to do that? >> i was going to say a lot, too, this is the effect of donald trump. if you think about this, roger stone has been doing this type of stuff for decades, peddling of conspiracy theory and now because donald trump is in the white house as president, he is getting caught. and they were working with russia to medal in our elections, but as we can see as it seems to be the case, but that's what's helping.

it's the donald trump fact what's going on. >> leave it there. as always, thank you very much. >> thanks, jonathan. up next, what climate change has to do with trump's gut? but before we go to the break, the series "she thrives" how about nominating a woman he. tonight tune in for al sharpton and somebody named joy reid from the global citizen at msnbc. more "a.m. joy" after this. my mom's pain from moderate

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have you read the climate report yet? >> i've seen it. i've read some of it and it's fine. >> they say economic impact could be devastating. >> yeah, i don't believe it. >> you don't believe it? >> no. no. i don't believe it. and here's the other thing. you're going to have to have china and japan and all of asia and all of these other countries, you know, addresses our country. right now we're at the cleanest we've ever been and it's very important to me.

but if we're clean but every other place on earth is dirty, that's not so good. 124 of 13 federal agencies presented the most serious warnings yet about climate change. the president might not believe it but the national climate assessment predicts that global warming's going to shrink the climate by 10% if we don't adapt to the risks of climate change. scientists warn of worsening droughts, devastating wildfires and things people are already seeing. joining me is congresswoman stacey plasket. thank you for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> in an interview with my colleagues at the washington post, the president tried to explain or he did explain why he was skeptical of the climate change report. he said, quote, one of the

problems that a lot of people like myself, we have very high levels of intelligence, but we're not necessarily such believers. as a member of congress, as -- you know, who represents your reaction to the president of the united states. >> well, i think his reaction is a -- absolutely unfounded. it was requested of multiple agencies and multiple experts. he chose the environmen wall ta impact to all regions of the united states. the area i live in has had direct devastation. >> irma. >> and maria hitting us as category 5 hurricanes as well as having long-term impacts on our economy as well as our health,

education system etcetera. this shows it is going to happen everywhere. this past week in congress we talk about how fema is being stretched tremendously over the fires in california and tsunamis in the last couple of weeks along with devastation from hurricanes. this is the area the united states will have to deal with. to say china and japan and others are not going to be cognizant of that it shows we are the only country that has rejected and reanythinged on the paris climate agreement. >> and to the point the president reiterated that by signing onto a declaration in support of the paris agreement. real quickly, everyone has been focused on the lack of response to the u.s. government to the citizens in puerto rico. has the government's response

been any better? >> we have seen that the government, congress did an excellent job in terms of providing fundings and putting it in for puerto rico and the virgin islands. i'll say it wasn't until october of this year the children of virgin islands a year and some month later we have gone to a regular school schedule. we are looking for mobile hospital systems. it is the draw down of the funding. >> in doing my research for today i saw that you are on the house oversight committee. you're about to come into the majority. what can we expect from a democratic lead house oversight committee? >> i think under leadership of the chairman you'll see us walk and chew gum at the same time. it will do the things it said we

would do in determines of dealing with postal service reform but we are also going to look for the answers and do our constitutional duty to ensure there's accountability in this government. we have great concern over the clause, the fact that the president has holdings in government entities or is he being financially enriched? it dez says he is not allowed t. the majority had been very happy up until president trump came into office to do exercise and duties. we'll continue with that movement. >> there's a lot of appetite within the democratic party base for the new majority coming in to go into impeachment. >> yes. >> go out there and impeach the president. where are you on that? should you as a member of congress go down that route? >> i think you'll see us do several things. we'll go into infrastructure.

making it first class, ensuring that there's security for social security, for medicaid, ensuring that working americans have higher wages and can meet the american dream. at the same time we are going to do our functions of checks and balances on that government. if it leads to questions on president trump that's how we will go. i think we'll do that methodically. i don't think there's an appetite in terms of the new leadership as well as vast majority of members of congress and this country to immediately attempt to impeach the president. >> so what do you say to those not necessarily your constituents but members in the democratic party base that will start screaming and yelling at you. this is why we gave you this party. >> i think they gave us majority because you want a better life for americans and you want accountability. we'll ensure this president is accountable. if that leads eventually to

impeachment then so be it. i think what we want to ensure is that this is not a rash decision. impeachments are things that really divide this country and create fractures in our system. i think what we are trying to do, who i think has done an amazing job of being very methodical and making sure you can answer the questions. >> you used to work for jim comey, the fired fbi director. at the time you did that mueller was the fbi director. what's the one thing about now special council mueller that you appreciate but that either the president doesn't appreciate or american people don't appreciate about how he works or is works? >> i think he is not moved by public opinion. he is moved by the law and that he is going to make sure all of the eyes are dotted and the t's are crossed to make sure he has

an ironclad case if he brings one before the american people. >> all right. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> before we go to a break tune in tonight to see joy reid and al sharpton in south africa at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here. more after the break.

>> and that is our show for today. thanks for watching.

in today for joy today. she will be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. alex has more. >> now you get the afternoon off. there you go. >> have a good one. >> a good day to all of of you in new york. it is high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. president trump in d.c. with one bit of critical news coming in argentina. today new questions swirling over the mueller probe and the fallout from the michael cohen guilty plea. >> i have never done anything politics that was outside the norms of my colleagues and my contemporaries. >> roger stone saying he has done nothing wrong and there's one thing he is never going to do that involves the president. and a tweet that is making headlines.