hello and welcome to "politics nation." coming to you this weekend from johannesburg, south africa. i'm here for the global citizen mandela 100 festival, celebrating the 100-year anniversary of nelson mandela's birth. the festival brings together beyonce, jay-z, oprah and many other amazing artists and activists that will honor, celebrate and inform the world about nelson mandela. global citizen is working to eradicate extreme poverty around the world by 2030. and we're proud to partner with this extraordinary organization in honoring the legacy of a man who spent his life working to

empower those most in need. on today's show, my interview with nelson mandela's daughter, dr. macke mandela. she will tell us about what her father's legacy means for the world. and i caught up with comedian trevor noah. one of the host of global citizen mandela 100, and a very proud south african who grew up under apartheid and is so thrilled to come back home to be part of this huge event honoring his hero. but first, introducing my co host for the weekend, the "washington post" jonathan capehart. >> thank you, reverend sharpton. we'll get to all of that soon. but we want to start with the latest news today. if last week's bombshell developments in the special counsel's russia investigation that president trump desired to build a trump tower in moscow are any indication of what robert mueller has in store, then this week may bring forth even more evidence of possible

collusion with two key players. former national security adviser, michael flynn, who has yet to be sentenced, will appear in court on tuesday. plus, we're still waiting for details on the, quote, crimes and lies of former trump campaign manager -- i'm sorry, trump campaign chairman, paul manafort, that mueller plans to spell out in a memo next friday. also this week, former fbi director, james comey, will testify in private before the house judiciary committee after initially refusing to do so. comey tweeted, quote, grateful for a fair hearing from judge. hard to protect my rights without being in contempt, which i don't believe in. so will sit in the dark. but republicans agree, i'm free to talk when done and transcript released in 24 hours. this is the closest i can get to public testimony. all of that will serve as a background as the nation mourns the passing of america's 41st president of the united states,

george h.w. bush who will be remembered with a ceremony at the national cathedral. joining me now is matt miller, former chief spokesman for the justice department and an msnbc justice and security analyst. democratic strategist ateama o'mara, and republican strategist roelle nicpour. this is going to be a huge week for the country and also for the russia investigation with michael flynn on tuesday. paul manafort -- both paul manafort and james comey in separate proceedings on friday. what are you anticipating, if anything? >> you know, we don't really know. we really don't know what's going to be coming out of this. it's going to really -- we have to watch and see what they're actually going to do when all this passes by, because this is going to possibly tarnish the republican party brand.

and i think that donald trump is really -- he's got to be sweating this right now. because you know he just submitted written answers, as you know. so he's already gotten that in play. so, you know, this is strange timing, because, as you know, cohen decided to totally fully engage with the investigation. and trump has already submitted written answers. so you can't go back and change anything now. >> right. and matt, what i found interesting is that -- i said in my introduction, quote, crimes and lies. and so to your mind as a former justice department official, what does that say to you in terms of what we should expect, at least for paul manafort, on friday? >> i think we're going to see, you know, more of the same with paul manafort. we're going to see that even after being indicted, in this case even after cooperating with investigators, he continued to commit crimes. obviously, he lied to them. i think it's possible you may see additional charges. you know, maybe a false statement, maybe obstruction of justice. he's been hit with obstruction of justice charges after his first indictment.

so we'll see those coming forward. and then i think one of the other really interesting things to watch this week that you referred to in the intro, this mike flynn court hearing where we'll see a memo from the special counsel that details mike flynn's cooperation. we haven't heard very much from mike flynn at all since last december, almost a year. actually, just over a year. it was december 1st of last year when he announced his plea agreement. we haven't heard what he's been cooperating -- how much he's been cooperating, how much he's told the special counsel, how valuable it's been. we'll finally get details of that this week. and, you know, i think we'll find out -- was mike flynn just kind of, you know, an ancillary witness to this case? or did he really deliver, you know, major help that was important, that was substantial, that maybe implicated the president or others in his orbit. >> ateama, i also mentioned that former fbi director, james comey, will be testifying before congress this week on friday. and part of the agreement is that he gets to -- he gets to testify, but he gets to release the transcript and talk about

the interview after it's done. how important is that for him, but also for the country that he actually gets to talk about what he told congress. >> i think it's very important. in all of this, it's been about the transparency of this entire process. and that's what has been sort of the concern for the last two years. is that, oh, there was no collusion or conversations or even talks with russia and now that's obviously -- that has been blown sort of by cohen and all of that. and so, you know, in part, all of the victories that democrats have in this cycle with almost 400 seats picked up in state legislatures, 40 seats in the house, nine governors. it's all, in fact, because not all of it, but a part of it is because people want more transparency and finding out what exactly is happening in this russia probe, which a lot of it will be figured out this week. >> nicole, you mentioned in your answer to my first question that the president must be sweating

bullets right now, because all of this is happening after he submitted written responses to the special counsel. >> yep. >> how seriously should he be sweating bullets? we've been here many times before. where there's all this action and we think that we are at the -- we're at the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end. where are we, do you think, in all of this? >> well, well-said, because it's been -- we like to say a wild goose chase. you know, what's i think on a lot of people's mind is, number one, he didn't have the press conference at the g20. >> right. >> and he stated that was for the -- >> out of respect for late president bush. >> correct. and i would like to believe that that's so. and very fitting. but there also could have been another component to this, to where he didn't want to take any questions on anything like that. the second thing of it is, it's

going to be very interesting to see what all comes out with flynn, cohen, et cetera, to see will these people get a pardon? will manafort, will trump pardon these people? this is going to be a very interesting point to that. >> you just jogged my memory. because the question i wanted to ask is, how likely is it because of what's going to happen with flynn and manafort and comey that in these next five days, we could see president trump take action in ways that everyone has said from the very beginning, if you do this, i.e., pardon fill in the name, that this will spell political doom. >> that's right. and i think a lot of people are watching very closely. and not only that, i think that the world is watching to see how this thing is going to play out. >> matt, let me ask you your view on that. again, as a former justice department official, the likelihood that given what's going to go down this week on tuesday and friday with flynn, manafort, comey, the likelihood of president trump doing what we all thought was possible, but

highly unlikely. and that is pardoning any one of these people. >> well, it's certainly on the table. he's made it very clear it's on the table and i would say not just for them but for others in his orbit. roger stone, jerome corsi who may be indicted in the coming weeks. and i'll say the president pardoning them would obviously be extremely troubling. it would i think be a clear act of obstruction of justice, trying to interfere with the investigation. but an important point is, he doesn't have to actually pardon them to interfere with his investigation. >> just this open talk of pardons. just him floating the idea of pardons publicly and at times having floated privately. we know he did it with paul manafort's lawyers and michael flynn's lawyers, and we know it entered michael cohen's mind when he was deciding whether to cooperate or not. just the president floating those can have damaging effects on the investigation. because you see someone like paul manafort, who is sitting there supposedly cooperating with investigators, he's cut this cooperation deal. and lies to them and tears the

cooperation deal up, essentially. you ask, why does he do that. why does someone like jerome corsi, certain to be indicted, if you look at the evidence against him that came out last week, it's kind of open and shut that he lied to investigators. he's almost certainly going to be convicted. why would he not take the cooperation deal that was on the table that would get him no jail time? you would have to think it's the idea of being pardoned that is, you know, irrevokebly harming this investigation. and that happens whether the president ever grants him or not. >> atima, i heard you trying to jump in there. >> yeah, i was just going to say, i agree with matthew's assessment. i think manafort all of a sudden has changed and started lying again because i think he's holding out hope for a pardon. but i think also in mueller's mind, knowing that being the situation, locking in cohen, you know, with this sort of plea deal is sort of like a guarantee for keeping some of those things from not happening, i think, down the road. so i think some of those dynamics are in play, for sure.

>> you know, atima, saying they're going to look at, quote, crimes and lies as it pertains to manafort, we're going to find out from the special counsel how he knew, how his entire team knew that manafort was lying to them and back-channelling to the trump white house. but i want to ask you, atima, since you are the democratic strategist on the panel, how this is going to impact the incoming democratic majority. lots of stories and the narrative is that the democratic party base is champing at the bit to impeach the president and say it's a narrative, not sure how hungry democrats are to impeach the president without any evidence. but after what we see this week, what kind of pressure could we see bearing upon the incoming democratic majority? >> i think it's going to be a lot of pressure, because more things are coming to light that were speculated on, but are now being more and more confirmed.

such as, you know, what cohen sort of basically affirming, yes, i lied about the fact that we had no contact with russia. we weren't doing any business deals with them, right? and so, yes, the base is very much the push for house democrats. now you guys are in charge. but let's find out some stuff, right? so it's not necessarily rush to impeach, but it's rush to investigate. it's rush to do due diligence. it's rush to course-correct on things that devin nunes was trying to hide. it's all of those things that i think will definitely go into motion for sure. >> you know, two other characters, nicole, we haven't talked about. roger stone and jerome corsi, who during the campaign were saying all sorts of stuff about how inside they were in terms of wikileaks and julian assange. and now, particularly roger stone and jerome corsi last week, saying oh, no, no, no, we were being hyperbolic. >> i think everybody is on to

this song and dance where they're closer than close and they had the inside track and then all of a sudden when they're accused of things and things are going to go down, oh, you know, i barely did this. and -- i think people are on to this. this is nothing new. and i think that these political operatives -- i think george stephanopoulos had an interview and called them dirty tricks and what not. i mean, i don't think anyone really takes too seriously these -- stone and corsi as somebody that are going to be fantastically credible people in the world of politics. >> but certainly having roger stone on with stephanopoulos saying to him, oh, you know, this is just -- this is just politics. >> no. >> what they're saying is -- it's not just dirty politics, it's to some people's minds, could be treason. >> yes. this is not politics as usual. and i think that's why george stephanopoulos stepped in and said, nope, these are pretty much dirty tricks, what you're

doing. so i think he clarified that. so you're right. >> right. and matt, in the 90 seconds we have left, let me get you in here and talk about roger stone and jerome corsi and their furious back-pedaling. >> it's quite obvious that stone has enormous criminal exposure. in the draft plea agreement for jerome corsi, that corsi made public this week, it's clear that jerome corsi and roger stone concocted a false story that roger stone then went and testified to congress. so that is a clear example of perjury to congress. i think he also has exposure for witness tampering with his attempts to intimidate randy creditco. and there's the underlying question of collusion and, you know, the foreknowledge he had about the wikileaks disclosures, both the timing and content he had from jerome corsi over the summer. corsi has this story that he figured that out himself kind of on a flight, which i don't think anyone believes, it doesn't make any sense. so i think you look at both of

them and they have enormous exposure. and what's clear over the last week, the special counsel is waiting for the president to get his answers in before he dropped other shoes. and in the last week, we saw two big shoes drop. the paul manafort shoe and the next michael cohen shoe. >> matt, we've got to -- >> next shoe is coming next week. >> matt, we've got to go. you know i had a long day. i've called you nicole all day. i'm so sorry. you don't want to miss tonight's special here on msnbc, "the global citizen mandela 100 festival," celebrating nelson mandela's birth. don't miss appearances from trevor noah and oprah winfrey, as well as performances by beyonce and jay-z, ed sheeran, eddie vedder and more. joy reid and al sharpton are in johannesburg tonight, 9:00 p.m. eastern, right here and only on msnbc. and coming up, tying nelson mandela's nobility to our current politics here in the

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there may have been more of a blue wave this midterm cycle than president trump anticipated. but was it big enough for both the trump billionaire tom steyer. he has made waves with his ad campaign to impeach mr. trump and could possibly weighade inte pool of potential 2020 candidates. we asked for his thoughts

comparing president trump to nelson mandela. >> tom, thank you for being with us. we have not spoken since the midterm elections. first give me your analysis of what the outcomes of the elections now mean. we saw the outcome in mississippi this week. you had dug deeply in georgia and florida. how do you look now, post midterm elections at the political landscape? >> well, reverend sharpton, i think the biggest statistic coming out of the mid terms is the spread between people who voted in the congressional elections for democrats and people who voted for republicans in congressional elections. and the spread between the two is 8%. which is a gigantic spread for a national election. so i think the headline is that

the republicans had an absolutely terrible election and the democrats had an absolutely great election. >> so now what does that say to you that needs to happen now, going forward? and what do people like you, who mobilize grass roots activists all over the country, what does that encourage or discourage you to -- in terms of your further involvement? >> well, reverend sharpton, to me what has to happen now is, there has to be a positive vision for the future for americans to coalesce behind. you know, in this election, there was a whole bunch of voices, and it was at some level a referendum on this failed president and this failed administration. but going forward, their failure is not enough. we need to see a positive vision for what america can be and what americans can achieve together.

>> now, there is the majority of the house now is democrat. would you recommend, therefore, based on what you just said, that they focus on health care and criminal justice and the economy and not make a priority out of investigating the president or moving toward impeachment? or would you say they should do a combination of both, or do you think they should go all guns and give priority to going after the president and those around him based on the allegations that we continue to hear? >> well, i do believe that the congress of the united states can walk and chew gum at the same time. that they can both impeach this criminal president and put forward a vision of what america can be. but reverend sharpton, i think we have to accept that whatever the house of representatives

does, the idea that we're going to have progressive legislation get through this republican-dominated senate and this republican white house is extremely unlikely. the action they can take that will change things is to impeach this lawless president and bring him to justice. >> now, one of the things that we keep hearing a lot of noise about is 2020. and whether the democrats have a candidate that can win. when people see this -- i'm in south africa commemorating the 100th anniversary, the birth of nelson mandela -- and when you think of the kind of character and even the kind of temperament he displayed, and you see the rancor in the american political scene today, you probably couldn't get more opposite. how do we and what do we look for in a democratic candidate

that can aggressively come and go toe-to-toe with this president but have the same kind of balance and gravitas that someone -- i don't know we'll ever see another mandela, but someone in the kind of spirit of a mandela that raises statesmanship above petty politics. >> reverend sharpton, i think that that is just a fantastic comparison. because what nelson mandela stood for, of course, was extreme courage. and extreme resiliency. and as you said, gravitas. but even more than that, in my mind, what nelson mandela did was reimagine what south africa could be and reimagined what the relationship could be between south africans. i think what he did was an act of brilliance and imagination and moral courage in a way that

we absolutely need. so if you were going to choose someone to be a model for what we need in the united states, that is exactly what we need. that kind of courage, that kind of moral commitment and that kind of brilliant imagination, to say, again, what this country can be and what americans together can accomplish. >> can tom steyer decide in 2020 to aspire to be that candidate that can reimagine america and sell that imagination to the american people? will you run? will you take the lead, tom? >> well, reverend sharpton, last week i put out what i called the five rights for americans in the 21st century to try and put forward a vision, a social contract, that we can move forward on. the right to an equal vote, the right to clean air and clean water, the right to learn, which would mean free quality public

education from pre-k through college. the right to health and the right to a living wage. and the idea behind -- that i was trying to do there is to put forward an umbrella of protection that americans can live with and then be free to pursue their dreams and their talents under. and i put it out in the public marketplace to say, we need a positive vision. i've traveled around the country for years talking to people. this is my distillation of what we need. get behind it. so we need someone to go really hard, in my opinion, on behalf of the american people, and i put it out there to say will somebody please do this. will somebody reimagine what america can look like in the way that nelson mandela reimagined south africa, stood up to the africaners. changed the entire concept of how people thought of themselves and their relationship to the

state and their relationship to each other and really changed that country in the most positive way through an act of moral courage. that's what i'm looking for somebody to do. and i want to be involved in that fight 100%. i'm absolutely dedicated to it. and let's see what happens. >> all right. well, i'm going to leave it there. you didn't say you would be the person, but you gave us the steps of what you're looking for and you'll help the person. and you may be the person. i'm going to keep asking, tom. thank you for being with us, tom steyer. >> still ahead, living through apartheid and then nelson mandela as president. the "daily show's" trevor noah shares his personal story of growing up in south africa. and a note to our viewers. nbcnews.com is calling for your entries to nominate a woman leader in your communities for she thrives, black women making history today. the series will highlight amazing women you showed know from a variety of occupations and regions. these women are truly elevating.

the conversation around black identity, politics and culture. submissions can be made in the survey in the link on your screen right now. hurry up. nomination deadline is december 13th. we'll be right back.

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coming up on "politics nation," reverend sharpton sat down with comedian trevor noah. his perspective on nelson mandela and growing up as a child in south africa before the end of apartheid. it's a story that tugs at your heart and your funny bone. we'll be right back. with fidelity wealth management you get straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth.

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noah, has become south africa's second-most famous son after nelson mandela himself. as host of "the daily show," a top drawer comedian and best-selling author, noah's humor and life as a biracial south african born before apartheid, literally born a crime. the name of his book. we caught up with him earlier this week here in new york. he started by asking about mandela's legacy. >> as we are embarking on really saluting the 100th anniversary of nelson mandela's birth, what does it mean to you? >> man, for me, nelson mandela always represents two things. i think he represents the man and he represents the ideas that surrounded the man. you know, he represents reconciliation in south africa. he represents a new dawn. he represents the rainbow

nation. he represents hope, you know? i mean, to go to prison for 27 years and people forget he was sentenced to life. it's not like he was going for 27 years. you never know you're coming out. >> he was supposed to die there. >> he was supposed to die there. and yet he lived there, which is a strange, strange thing to do. he changed the people around him, including the guards in his prison. he changed the country around him. and when he came out, he in many ways shaped how south africa dealt with its new democracy and the racial tensions that we experienced. >> you hit the core of what i got from him. i really don't think people understand how he not only fought the, quote, oppressors in south africa. >> right. >> he had to fight with his allies, who didn't want to deal with reconciliation. i mean, i think we underestimate everybody in south africa didn't want to forgive, and he insisted on that. >> did he ever talk about to you how he had changed, though? >> in jail. >> right. because he used to be really

militant. >> he said to me, i went in because we were getting ready to blow up some power -- >> right. >> i believed in violence. and i grew in jail. and he looked in our direction. i never forget this. he said, don't ever be afraid to grow and help those that you were with grow with you. the other thing that i think that showed the strength of him is that many people, 27 years in jail, suffering the way he did, coming out, becoming president, and then after serving his presidency, walk away. >> i think that may have been one of the greatest acts that nelson mandela performed for our country. i think that man could have ruled forever. he could have ruled to his death. i think the majority would have been with him, because he represented a new world and a freedom and a new idea. and i think what he understood

and he articulated so many times was that he himself had to be held to the same standards that he preached. >> next, the reverend and trevor noah discuss noah's upbringing as a biracial kid in south africa. >> you embody -- you personify the south african experience. >> yes. >> so talk about that. >> so i was born during apartheid. south africa was segregated in every way. our languages, our television stations, our neighborhoods. everything was divided into your culture, your race. and my mother was a strong black woman at the time. still is. who didn't believe in any of these laws. my father, swiss man, white, didn't believe in these laws either. and it's so funny how differently they approached it. my mom approached it with a rebellious attitude. she used to say, you tell me what i can't do and i'll show you what i can do. >> wow. >> you know? and she was rebellious about it. and my dad, on the other hand, he is swiss. he's logical. and so he said, it never made

sense to him. he said, i don't understand. if you hate the black people, how can you come to africa? how do you hate black people in africa? if you don't like black people, that's the one place you shouldn't be. so you had two people who were opposed to this idea of forced separation. and they found each other, they fell in love. and so i was born, and i was born a crime. >> you talk a lot about your mom. is that the core of why trevor noah is so adamant about gender equality and things that you have really stood up for in your platforms? >> oh, definitely, definitely. i don't know why every man isn't a feminist. and i don't know why every man isn't fighting for women to be completely equal because of the burden men have to bear, because of this toxic masculinity that has held us for so long. you don't understand that there is a liberation that comes with women's equality, you know? and so many men think of it as giving up some control. it's like, no. no, with that equality comes a

freedom the other way around. you know, for many south africans, because of the country we lived in, we were -- we were raised in a world where we were separated from our fathers for different reasons. south africans and south africa in large part has been curated, cared for and grown by women. >> reverend sharpton and trevor noah then talked about nelson mandela's stamina and his sharp sense of humor. >> all the way until the end -- >> right. >> he showed unusual strength and commitment. >> he genuinely did. and when you hear about nelson mandela's time in prison, i don't know that i would be able to do it. i don't know that 99.9% of us would be able to do it. to be in a horrific place where it seems like you will be forever and to realize that you have the ability to continue growing. you have the ability to continue enjoying, laughing, being

better. nelson mandela showed that sometimes the prison is the mind. you know? and it was actually president obama who said at his memorial -- it was a beautiful quote where he said nelson mandela showed that you could free not only the prisoner, but also the guard. and that's what he did for so many people. i don't know if you ever saw the side of him, but one of the biggest things that influenced me with nelson mandela was that he never lost himself in the fight. and what i mean by that is, he always knew how to laugh. if you forget to laugh, you forget yourself. you forget who you are. and i don't know if you ever saw that side of him. >> i never saw that side. but he did say once -- we were talking, and he would say, don't take yourself more seriously than you take the mission. learn to laugh at yourself and you're going to mess up. >> exactly. >> and admit it. don't take yourself too seriously. >> he was one of the funniest people i have ever come across

as a human being. and he showed -- he reminded me -- i was like, yo, don't take yourself more seriously than the mission. and that's my thing with nelson mandela. if he came out of prison without the ability to smile, without the ability to laugh, did he come out of prison? >> no. he definitely said that. and then only you could give me -- say this on tape. i remember we were coming out of the u.n. the day he did the speeches. >> right. >> before he was president. and jesse jackson, who i grew up under. he was like a mentor to me. he was 15 years older than me. says, but what would you tell a young guy like al sharpton leading the marches and i'm waiting for these pearls of wisdom. and he says, lose weight. and i was like -- i'm crushed. i wanted him to tell me to run to the mountaintop. he says, lose weight! and the next time i saw him, i started slimming down. >> right. >> he says, good.

>> that's -- he remembers, right? >> he remembered. >> his magical trick that nobody knew about him, he would meet -- i'm talking about everybody from a security guard in a building all the way through to the president, he would remember you. he would remember your family, your story, everything about you. >> and these are not people around him reminding him or giving him a briefing. >> he had no one whispering. >> he remembered. >> if he met you, he remembered you. and what i loved about that for me was, he reminded me to see everyone as a human being. you know? and in south africa, one of our greetings, and many of them mean the same thing. but in zulu, we don't say hello. it means, i still see you. >> wow. >> and that for me is one of the most important things. >> wow. >> do you still see the people around you. and that was the magic. >> that was beautiful. wow. >> you can see this interview tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern as part of the mandela 100 global citizen festival from johannesburg, south africa. up next, reverend sharpton sat down with one of nelson

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♪ the greatest wish of all... is one that brings us together. the lincoln wish list event is here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with $0 down, $0 due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer. welcome back to "politics nation." reverend sharpton is in south africa tonight. earlier, he had the incredible opportunity of talking with nelson mandela's daughter, maka, about what it was like to grow up in the household and how her father's legacy impacted so many around the world. take a look.

>> dr. mandela, first, thank you for having us visit you in your home. >> it's a pleasure. >> as we celebrate your father all over the world and the big event here in johannesburg, you knew him as your natural father, as a father. we knew him as a father of the nation. what was it like to be his daughter? >> challenging. in the sense that i was 26 or 7 when my dad went into hiding. and once he was, we were not allowed to visit him until i was 16. >> so you couldn't visit him until you were 16. >> yes. >> and even then only once a year. >> yes. and we couldn't communicate. you know, you could communicate by letter, but he was allowed a certain number of letters per

year. and you would receive letters that half of the page was missing, because he had written about something political. >> let me push a little there. >> yes. >> you -- we know and have and admire the suffering he went under, but as a young girl growing up without a father, did you understand why he wasn't there? >> not really. you know, that all started going before you are sentence. >> didn't understand what he was in hiding. >> no. not really. not from a child's viewpoint. he told me that he was preparing for when there would be a fight in this you know, and this led fighting for equality between blacks. but with a child's mind, you don't understand some of those things. >> now you also and i think very few people understand this, you grow up in the controversy that you didn't ask for and that you have to adjust to because everyone knows you're mandela's

daughter. you're in the middle of a fire storm and didn't even ask to be there. >> yes, we don't, but look, i mean i'm one of his children who has been very open and honest to say i was very bitter. i had father was there, but was never there. really. and i never, hated. i think i clashed with my father because i'm stubborn and headstrong like him, but i've come to admire my dad for what he did. the sacrifices he made. >> now, did he ever once he was released, try to compensate or make up for the years he was gone? how did he try to reach out? >> he was a loving person, very kind. but as i say, he was overcompensating to his children and i think because he grew up

in an era where as a child, you had to be seen not heard. i don't think, i mean, small in 27 years because he went into hiding. he was not with us. and so by the time he came out, we were adult women and men who had married. had our own children. so we did not develop the -- father son daughter and i think he still viewed us in the eyes when we were young becauseed hi was not allowed to go in with the other visitors. i was told to sit in a separated room. and i had expectations to you know, oh, for the first time, i would have my dad. no. >> you couldn't touch him. >> no. i couldn't touch him. >> and he couldn't hug his daughter he had not seen in all those years. >> no. no. >> this calm aura that he had,

the that years later when he came to the united states and i was around him, he seemed calm. was that how he was all the time where did that come from? >> no, he was stubborn. very opinionated. rebel. he's name called -- it means one is brave enough to get honey from a fawn tree. >> when who's brave enough to get honey from the thorn tree. >> but one who's brave enough to challenge the status quo. i think by the time he came out, he had the stubbornness, the belligeren belligerence, still a fight, no doubt, but i think he had realized a number of things about himself and i think that's why he could negotiate with his enemies who incarcerated him

from his family in the manner that he did. >> what do you think went on when the fanfare is over this weekend, all of the entertainers and the crowds go, what do you think your father would hope the follow up would be and what do you hope happens after the fest festivities? >> it's about making sure the live of people are fundamentally change nd this country. that's why i think for me, the global citizens concert is important, but it's about what will be left behind by the global citizens concert that will benefit and change the lives of those who are poor in this country. and so i would hope this concert is a -- what my father said is that we tried to put building blocks to create a better future for the world. it's up to the next generation to really now build on the foundation that they laid. and i would hope that after the

fanfare is goep, th gone, that something really change bable on the ground that will continue to happen. >> wow. thank you very much. >> it's a pleasure. thank you. >> up next, the final thoughts from south africa. ...i just got my ancestrydna results: 74% italian. ...and i found out that i'm from the big toe of that sexy italian boot! so this holiday season it's ancestrydna per tutti!

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fine thoughts tonight from south africa. >> when i landed in south africa, i received a word that the 41st president of the united states, george bush sr., had passed. i thought about how i admired and loved nelson mandela and was awed in his presence. i thought about how i had disagreed with many of george bush's policies when he was president, but never, ever disliked him when i met him and talked to him in his presence. the thing they had in common is they both bleed in redunlgts. i i remember how nelson mandela came out of jail after 27 years and forgave his jailers. i remember how george bush after a very serious campaign, ended up embracing bill clinton who defeated him and brought a level of reconciliation into american politics. when all the ranker of today, we can learn that aspect from those

two men. >> thanks for watching politics nation. reverend sharpton will be back next friday and saturday. do not miss tonight's global citizen's festival. it brings together artists from around the world to honor and celebrate nelson mandela. tonight at 9:00. up next, "meet the press" with chuck todd. this sunday, the passing of president george h.w. bush. war hero, congressman, cia director, vice president and the last president of the greatest generation. >> i want a kinder and gentler nation. >> he faced a slumping economy and faced down saddam hussein after iraq's invasion of kuwait. >> this will not stand, this aggression against kuwait. >> then forged a bipartisan relationship with the man who denied him a second term. >> we were friends before he beat me, before we were running against other and we've been friends afterward. that's the way politics shou