welcome back to "up." let's start with what the new york post is calling president trump's no good, very bad day. president trump launched a preemptive strike against robert mueller. in quick succession, there were seven tweets attacking the special counsel's investigation. his instincts were right. these were the headlines. prosecutors say then candidate trump directed cohen to commit two felonies and mueller row cohen provided useful intel. the former trump attorney tried to set up a meeting between president putin and candidate trump. the allegations and revelations were so damning, a key person in

the watergate scandal used the "i" word. >> the house is going to have little choice going other than to start impeachment proceedings. >> president trump ended the horrible very bad no good day the same way he started it sending robert mueller a thank you note, quote, totally clears the president, he wrote. thank you. joining me this hour, amy rocca from the southern district of new york. ali is a contributing op he had -- op-ed writer. let's take a step back here and look at some of the key developments from robert mueller over these past several months. we have a timeline here. let's start in august where president trump was hit with a double whammy while paul man na fort was found guilty on eight counts of fraud in virginia. michael cohen was pleading

guilty to tax fraud and financial implications in a courtroom in new york. a few weeks later, there was a bombshell report that cohen agreed to plead guilty and cooperate with the special counsel. at the end of november, president trump's lawyers submit written answers to questions from the special counsel. nine days later, michael cohen pleased guilty in the mueller investigation to lying to congress about his work on plans to build a trump tower in moscow and a flurry are of developments yesterday, george papadopoulos walking out of prison after completing his 14-day sentence for lying to investigators about his contacts with russians and mueller filed the explosive sentencing documents for manafort and cohen. go back to that new york post cover mentioning other facets of the day that were bad for president trump including the market drop, as well. when it comes to this

investigation, what changed yesterday? how pivotal was it? >> i think it was very pivotal. we can spend a whole hour talking about the filings from yesterday, but we're not going to do that. i'll try to highlight a couple of things that i think were so important. when cohen pled guilty to the lie background the trump tower moscow last week, that was huge. in and of itself. now, we have mueller talking about sort of getting into the substance of that a little bit more in the filings about cohen's cooperation, right? and whilite ne it's not spelled i think what's coming to light more and more is that those business deals that cohen lied about -- and i'll talk about maybe others who might have lied about it in a second -- are so intertwined with this campaign, collusion, election interference that we've all been focused on. and we've sort of been focused on that one piece of it. what's starting to take shape, i

think, is a narrative, if you will, that mueller has long known, but i think we're jrt just starting to see it. and mueller knows so much more with about it than we yet can see. but it's this idea of the business and the political intertwining and that is ultimately i think what is going to bring down trump, frankly. because it is the greediness, the inability to let go to seek these business opportunities in moscow. it's this long standing relationship that we now know went back to 2015 when russians were seeking out talking to trump about, we think, business opportunities and probably a campaign. so i think this is in some ways bigger than any of us had imagined in items of the scheme that was orchestrated. now, who orchestrated it and who had knowledge of the different part of it, we're, i think, still figuring it out. we know cohen had some knowledge of it and some pieces of it.

but in my mind, you have different players in sort of different areas. the other big thing that i think came out of both mueller's filings and the southern district filing, i think the southern district filing is even more explosive, but the other big thing is this idea of the coopera coordination of the lies. you have this idea of people sending signals or getting their stories straight both publicly and privately. and you know who else does that is donald trump. so a lot of what was written about cohen in both filings could have been written about trump, i think, about trying to get messages out to other potential witnesses and make sure everybody had their stories straight. and then the last thing i'll say in summary -- sorry. i'm trying not to take up the whole hour here -- is the cohen filing by the southern district,

it directly implicates trump, clearly and explicitly. it had been done before, but now it's explicit in this campaign finance scheme. does that mean he's guilty of a crime? the southern district is not charging him and it's not just because he's the president. it's because you have to show certain levels of knowledge and intent about the law. can they show that? i think the answer to that is probably yes, but we don't have all those facts. but what we do know is he was part of the scheme. that's something congress can consider for impeachment purposes, independent of whether he's charged under -- could be charged under title 18. >> i want to ask you about these two filings, maybe mention the southern district one and the special counsel and the picture that we get of michael cohen as somebody helping with these investigations is very different in each. what do you make of that, the distinction of both? >> first of all, totally clears the president. so we know donald trump is a half full type of guy. and i want to make a quick

analogy because the last time i used "game of thrones" and mime was like, what are you talking about? this time i'm going use good fellas. ray is in the car and looking up and looking at the helicopters and he's asking are the helicopters coming from me? and the answer is yes. but people forget, michael co.en was donald trump's person personal fixer, his tom higin, right? a man who would go to bat for him, a man who would take somebody to the mattresses for him. and the fact that he is so pivotal to this is the nexus of donald trump's business connections to russia. we're talking about campaign finance violations, also we're talking about collusion because, remember, in the filings yesterday, there was about government synergy in 2015 that russians approached michael cohen to see if there would be a business deal, $50 millioner for the trump tower. and the third aspect that we haven't talked about, obstruction of justice. and i think that's the next shoe

to drop. michael cohenen, people thought by his participation, people thought he would get some leniency. but they want four years. for those of you are like, four years, that's nothing. in white collar white people crimes, all right, four years is a lot. so -- and they also mentioned this history yesterday in the filings, this history of lying, this history of deceit. so despite all of this, at least the federal prosecutors in the southern district of new york said nope, we're going to go now for maximum sentencing. so i think what we're getting is that scene where ray leota and looking up at the helicopters and michael cohen is going to be instrumental in riding out donald trump. >> there was a note in one of these filings as an issue of transparency, of the effect that this had on the 2016 presidential election. you have this not my job portion of your --

>> yes, i do. the only thing i have understood, of everything that's been said -- i've seen good fellas, so i've got that much. thank you. although i don't think these guys are good fellas. i don't think the rolling stones would ever dane to give them background music. these guys are -- i mean, michael cohen is at best on his best day paulie ral nuts. here is the thing about this whole transparency thing. everybody was like, donald trump, we would never have elected him had we known all this was going on. we knew he was donald trump. isn't that enough? and this whole idea that he somehow schemed his way into office is insane because i will give donald trump this, he never pretended to be anybody than what he was, which was a weirdly incompetent criminal. and people were like, that would be a good change. and so i'm sure that people who

are excited about electing an incompetent criminal to the white house with are feeling very validated right now. >> heather, i want to get your reaction to this. you know, mimi was talking a moment ago about what we've been able to piece together, one of these filings is under seal. we saw something from the southern district with regard to manafort. how are you piecing all of this together as you're trying to find the picture as a whole? >> i think we're very close. i think what we know now is enough to indict a person. and i think one of the questions is can we in dietdict a sitting president? i went back, i was like, wait a second, let's look at who has said that we can't. it's nowhere in the constitution. there are a bunch of legal memos and all the ones that say that you can't indict a sitting president are from lawyers for a president. nixon, etcetera. the two times that the supreme court has actually thought about this issue and ruled on it were

in u.s. v. nixon and clinton v. jones. and in both times, they said, actually, the president has to -- in clinton v. jones, a civil kacase for sexual harassmt can go forward against him. if a civil case can go forward, why not, obviously, a criminal case. in nixon, it was that he was an unindicted coconspirator, but he had to give over the idea of the tapes. donald trump has had his entire strategy to sort of stack the decks, right? so obviously kavanaugh with his expansive view, executive power, is someone he rushed to put in the white house no matter, you know, how unpopular he was nationally and the debacle of those hearings. and then now he's nominated someone to be the attorney general who has said a bunch of different things about executive authority and about the mueller investigation. because he knows that, in fact -- maybe he doesn't know. he knows -- he is someone who

has gotten away with a lot throughout his entire career. but at the people around him know that, in fact, this is not settled law. there is nothing in the constitution that says that -- and there's nothing in common sense. i think the american people who are seeing, you know, millions of people in jail, sitting in jail for bail, you know, for not having enough money to get out of jail, even when they're not convicted, are are saying where is the most powerful person in the world immune from crimes? >> mimi, where does that conversation stand? heather picked up bill barr being the next attorney general, how does that change the process expects of the sitting president? >> excellent point. and i agree, we all tend to gloss over this. no, he's the president. he cannot be indicted. that is not a settled question. practically speaking, though, given who is now the acting attorney general and who is about to become the attorney -- well, if he becomes the attorney general, william barr, the prospect of a u.s. attorney's

office or mueller getting permission to bring that indictment is very, very small. because, you know, whitacre was put there 100%, i think, to protect the president. whether he's doing that or not, i don't know. he actually seems to be keeping his hands out of the russia investigation, which is good. as he should. and letting things go forward as the prosecutors would want them to go forward for now. barr, you know, look, i've heard very favorable things about him from people that i greatly respect, prosecutors, former prosecutors, department of justice officials. so he gets a little bit of the benefit of the doubt that he's more of an institutionalist, someone who would uphold the -- you know, the rule of law and defend the department of justice, which is rare in this administration. but he he has also said things in oh contexts that he needs to be deeply questioned about that

are skeptical of these investigations. so i think as as a matter of law, we agree it's not settled. i think as a practical matter, it depends on whether they could get permission and that depends a lot on who is head of the department of justice. remember when, it was just this week, but it feels like ages ago that it was suggested michael flynn should avoid a prison sentence. tes postal serve makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪ cle...is a hassle.th a mop and bucket... swiffer wetjet makes cleaning easy. it's safe to use on all finished surfaces, ...trapping dirt and liquid inside the pad. plus, it prevents streaks better than a micro fiber strip mop. for a convenient clean, try swiffer wetjet.

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as folks here dig into the food, i was reminded, peter, having read your book of what you've written about food. the secret to eating well is simply to eat well. the secret to not eating too much is to stop eating when you're not hungry any more. peter, please. >> can we get a close-up of the doughnut? >> so this is, for me, really weird because i watch cable news all the time and now i'm here on the set and now i know what it's like. what these incredibly sophisticated people do during the commercial break is dive on this dish of pastries like a pack of hyenas. i came here for the treats in the green room. the treats in the green room, not green. this is where the good stuff is. it's on the table, it's on set. we can't eat it because then we'll be on tv with food.

this is how cable news is destroying america. denying the pundit the chance to eat the good stuff. look at this, those are black and white cookies there. this is amazing. >> but it tastes like freedom. >> more now on those developments in the russia investigation, michael flynn and michael cohen both cooperated with robert mueller's team. robert mueller said flynn agreeing to help out early on might have helped others come forward. mooim michael cohen was not as lucky. both cases tell us about what is coming next, my panel is back with me. mimi, hearry writarry writes ab these cooperation agreements work out. help us understand that principal, how it works in the u.s. justice system. michael flynn deserves treatment different from michael cohen

because of how, the way in which he came forward. >> right. so flynn seems to have done what every cooperator -- person who wants to cooperate and benefit from that cooperation should do. he cooperated early and fully and truthfully. and, you know, there's all these sayings, you can't cooperate halfway, kind of like you can't be half away pregnant. once you put one foot in, you better put two feet in or you'll be in bigger trouble than you were before. >> meanwhile, paul manafort dipping his toe in the water -- >> i put cohen somewhere in the middle. we really have a spectrum here. flynn looks like he got an a plu plus. cohen is somewhere in the middle with a b minus. he seems to have been more fully cooperating with one investigation, mueller's. and one point on cohen, i would say, is the southern district's disappointment with him and

reason for asking for a sentence with him doesn't seem to be so much that he lied, okay, because he got caught in every lie, i think, that he told and it sounds like he came around. there's some talk about that in the medical mow, li-- memo. it's more that he wouldn't talk about certain areas. that's a big no-no. you cannot say i'll talk about x, but not y, particularly with the southern district of new york. in the southern district, you are all in or not. and cohen seems to have certain areas he was not willing to talk about, which is interesting to me. he'll talk about russia, but he doesn't want to talk about his past criminal conduct or conduct of others involved in the trump organization or financial schemes. we should take notice of that. >> i want to stick with this idea of redemption. there's probably a sadness at the regency this morning where michael cohen often has breakfast. he is somebody who throughout the latter part of this process was doing this because he wanted

to make amends, felt bad about what he did. and we see here in these filings, that really eviscerated prosecutors seemingly thinking that that is not what -- that was not his motivation. >> first of all, i have some sympathy for michael cohen. if i had done really poorly on my s.a.t.s, it could be me. but i think of a great woody all allen joke from i don't know when where he says, i'd like to plead guilty with an explanation. wasn't there a thing where he said i want to turn my life around and be a good person now. apparently they said you need to talk about that and he said, i don't want to be that good. but what is he thinking? i've never dealt with criminal defendants. i'm a lucky man. nor have i been one, even luckier. what could he possibly be thinking? i'm not going to tell the federal prosecutors who have control over my life about that. what is he afraid of?

>> that's a good question. i don't know the answer of what he's protecting, but it has to be pretty big because he's going to go to jiel because he won't talk about that. and i'm sure that has been made clear to him by the prosecutors and by his able attorney. i think what is going on is what is going on with all of these guys. they give what they give and they think they can get away with not giving the full truth. they do not understand that people like mueller, the southern district of new york, the fbi have what is called evidence. they keep getting caught by evidence. >> all michael cohen needed to do was to go to the second worst law school in the country. >> follow the trail of michael cohen. michael cohen was donald trump's right hand man. so as his character is being discussed as being fraudulent, a liar, tax evasion, fraud, financial missteps, campaign violations, he was doing it directed by or in coordination with donald trump, his right

hand man. what you've seen in the past year, year and a half, is donald trump threw michael cohen under the bus. michael cohen wanted to be kind of like the adopted son of donald trump, and throughout these past two years, he was signaling, hey, help me out. come to my defense. he saw none of it, so now we're seeing kind of of like a spurned lover. criminals rat on each other all the time. now you're seeing michael cohen saying i had your back and now you don't have any back? there's a deep loyalty to the truth. >> it's the dumbest family drama. >> i was going to do, freudian psychology here. >> it's just -- >> the mashup nobody wanted. >> right here on "up." we'll come back in just a moment. could this be the moment john kelly finds himself out of the job? plus the president plucking a u.n. ambassador from the air

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welcome back to "up." the game of musical chairs continues at the white house this week. president trump announcing his nomination of william barr as the next hoattorney general. but the next person on his way out the door may be president trump's chief of staff, john kelly. reports say he will resign any day now, likely to be replaced by mike pence's chief of staff, nick ayers. rex tillerson is coming out swinging against the president nine months after he was forced out of his job. >> to go to work for a man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn't like to read, doesn't read briefing reports, doesn't like to get into the details of a lot of things -- >> he's coming out swinging in a wing back chair there. the president shot back on twitter calling rex tillerson,

quote, dumb as a rock and lazy as hell. joining me right now, chris whipple. chris, is this the final verdict on the john kelly experiment? when did it go wrong? john kelly was brought in to right the ship, to make everything run the way it was supposed to run. how quickly did that go off the rails? >> almost immediately. this was the guy who supposedly was going to make the trains run on time in the west wing. he did for a little while but, of course, it turned into a terrible marriage with trump. and, of course, the death -- the deathnell was really when he picked a fight with melania trump. the first rule of being white house chief of staff is you have to make sure that the east wing is taken care of, that the first lady is never blind-sided. so that's really the final nail in his coffin at this point. and i think it's a watershed moment for the trump white house. they're two years in. they have one legislative

accomplishment in two years which was, of course, the tax cut that went to multi millionaires. they need to get it right. if you can't get it right with the chief of staff, then you're in serious trouble. >> heather, this is happening at an important time. you're going to have a change of power in washington, at least one house of congress. democrats are going to get the majority in the house and we'll see investigation after investigation after investigation. and that means the white house is going to be in the cross hairs. they're going to be called upon to produce documents and people. and this is something the chief is staff is going to have to deal with. >> i think this is a really critical moment for the white house personnel. if you start to see more and more of not just investigations into russia and collusion and the campaign and the conspiracy against the united states -- >> yes. >> okay. but also if you start to see investigations into what cabinet officials have been doing with their -- with their agencies. you will start to see people

leave. and i think that this is a time when there needs to be a chief of staff who is trusted by at least republicans on the white house excuse me, republicans in congress and someone who is sort of able to keep the band together. i think you're going to start to see more defections. i think we have yet to see what happens when he steps into the big leagues. >> ayers, i did a double take when i read that he's worth $12 to $15 million. what is it about him that the president reportedly likes? what is it about him that secretary of state mike pompeo doesn't like? ee advised the president mott to pick nick ayers as chief of staff. >> they think that ayers is politically savvy, he's a smooth

operator. the trouble is, that is only the very beginning of the chief of staff's responsibilities. i mean, he would not be the youngest chief of staff. dick cheney was 34 when he became jared ford's chief of staff. but donald trump is not jerald ford. if ayers winds up doing what kelly did, which was reinforcing all of trump's worst partisan instincts and fails to teach him that there's a difference between campaigning and governing, then we're headed for more dysfunction. >> peter, is it your sense this administration is intractable, that this president is ungovernorble by somebody like a chief of staff? >> i don't know why anyone would want to be donald trump's chief of sav. the only reason i can think of

is there's a good chance to steal a lot of office supplies before they shut him down. other than that, this is -- this is my one chief of staff story. it's all i've got. i once met harahm emanuel. he said rahm emanuel used to say that's great. the fireplace is great. everything between it sucks about being rahm emanuel. the contribution of the trump white house is to make the whole thing now sucks, i think, that even when you're out on the patio, it still sucks. >> is there a vision for what this reshuffling is going to look like? i mentioned heather nauert. here we are, the pivot is happening. is there a guiding principal for -- >> young, white, attractive, blond. no, i'm serious. >> he's right. >> donald trump is very much about appearance. that's why he passed over

initially john bolton aus nation -- as national security adviser. >> and he didn't want janet yellen to continue being fed chief because she was too short. which i took personally. >> john kelly, the bar is so low that john kelly was supposed to be the adult in the room. and i'm sorry, but all of them are grown men and women. and the fact that john kelly was supposed to be the adult in the room and failed miserably and i think has his own sense which will not look favorably on his career, trump soils everything. and i think nick ayers will go down, as well. up next, jeff jarvis put it on "up," we watched fox news so you didn't have to. that is coming up.

welcome back to "up." he praises it on twitter. he calleds in sporadically. he's even walked on out to his media position at the white house for interviews. we know the president likes to watch fox news. here is how the network covered the bombshell incidents involving michael cohen and michael flynn. >> to watch the reaction on the other networks tonight, you might as well have thought that donald trump came out in a hammer and sickle t-shirt and said, look, i'm a russian

operative myself. >> the one thing that these two filings have in common, nothing to do with russiaer or collusion at all. after months of intense investigations, millions and millions and millions of your dollars spent, seedy perjury.traps, legal coercion, we have no evidence of any wrongdoing by the president of the united states. >> for the seedless collusion myself, mimi, let's pick up off of that. give that a bit of serious treatment. the documents do not answer the central question at the heart of mueller's work whether the president or those around him conspired with the cripple lynn. i think our friends on the other network would point to that. how do you respond to the way they're characterizing this? >> those are two very different things. what you just read is a we don't know the whole story yet versus what they're saying is he's

cleared. what he tweeted is i'm cleared, that's it. that is spin. i don't know what documents they're looking at or what, you know, court proceedings they're listening to, but that is false, false, false. and they can put their spin on it, but when you read the documents and you look at what prosecutors and fbi agents are saying with, again, evidence, i keep coming back to that, that is not the case. do we know the whole story yet? no. but as i said at the beginning, in the first segment, i think this idea of collusion, now we have a new word, synergy. we are seeing this story coming into view of the president, the now president, then real estate businessman, candidate trump and circle of people around him coordinating, synergizing, talking with, interacting with people from russia who are the kremlin about business deals and

about how to get trump elected. that, to me, is pretty much collusion or whatever word you want to use and i think there's a lot of crimes embedded in there. i don't want to go through the whole u.s. code now, but there are crimes there and i think they will end up at donald trump's doorstep. >> i did like the introduction of synergy. >> now we have cooperate gobbledygook on top on of everything else. >> heather, i want to that you about the attorney general nominee. your reaction to it, what it says about the direction this president is going in. we talked about heather nauert being an outside pick when you look at the resume of past u.s. ambassadors. >> that's nice. an outside pick. an outside of qualifications pick, yes. >> what do you make of this attorney general pick? >> we've talked a little bit about his stated ideas about president trump, about the special counsel, about, you know, he stated to the news

media last year that there should be more investigations into uranium one than there should be into president trump's relationship with russia. i think that was a very irresponsible statement to make. he doesn't know and this is a matter of highest national security. but i also think we have to talk about his record on the other issues that matter to every day people. he says that roe v. wade is wrongly decided. he thinks the most fundamental right in a woman's life, the right to choose what to do with her body and decide when and how to parent should be left up to state legislatures and not be a constitutional right, that is far outside of the mainstream. there are a lot of different ways the department of justice can chip away at the right to an abortion and contraception. and someone who where he a memo in the 90s saying why we need to incarcerate more. this is a moment when the entire country is very excited about the possibility of criminal justice reform, where this

country, the united states incarcerates more people than any other country in the world and he is on record both in the 90s saying we need to incarcerate more and being against criminal justice and sentencing reform more recently. >> so i want to ask you about relativism and the veneer. he has picked somebody who has had the job before and that gives him the look of being somebody good at that job. and when you look at other people he's picked, they don't have that experience. what does that say to you about the approach the white house has, the approach lawmakers have to these nominees? at least we know of this guy. that is better than this person who is a huge x factor, we have no ideas about how events work. >> and it worked. oh, this person worked for h.w. bush and we spent the last week talking about how great of an american he was and how he was a symbol of a bygone

republicanism. so the immediate takes were this is a professional, this is someone we can trust. but, you know, someone who has been in the job for a long time isn't necessarily right. i mean, if you really look at his positions on criminal justice reform, they were wrong. they're dead wrong about the relationship between incarceration and the drop in crime. >> also immigration. >> also immigration, that's right. so you really need to actually look at a person's wisdom and judgment. i think the heather nauert pick is -- >> outside? >> is outside of qualifications. we've known that a man who watches tv all the time is going to try to continue to pull people from tv. this person, heather nauert is a spokesperson. that's very different from being someone who has her own political and policy opinions. listen, if i was a megalomaniac,

i want want someone interacting with the most powerful nations in the world through the u.n. and doing our foreign policy negotiations to a certain degree who is just going to say xkexacy what i told them to say. >> i am much more troubled by the bill barr pick because we know that donald trump thinks that the attorney general is basically his defense counsel. he's tweeted against jeff sessions, wanted to get rid of jeff sessions. we know why whita ker is there, attacking the mueller investigation and a person who also thinks christian judges are the best judges. but with bill barr, in addition to the expansionist he has with the presidency, he gave up the pardons in the iran contra affair and he has antibiotic tack -- attacked the robert mueller investigation. also on immigration, i just want

to say that he supports jeff session's vision on immigration and he specifically wanted to have immigration officers placed in foreign major airports to do screening to limit the people who came hee. so in addition to criminal justice reform, he is a hard liner on immigration reform and i think we should all be very worried. what a trump employee had to say when revealing undocumented immigrants working at the club. why did i walk away?

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building. we didn't have one illegal immigrant on the job. everybody knows it. nobody was -- believe me, we could have hired plenty, they're all over the place. they are all over the place. >> that was donald trump on the campaign trail defending the workers who built his hotel near the white house. but the house keepers at his new jersey golf club are in the spotlight. two women told the "new york times" they worked for years at the bedminster facility while in the country illegally.

my panelists are back with me. heather, we talk a lot about policy. this is personalizing policy in an amazing way. your reaction to that story and what it says about the administration, the administration's perspective on immigration laws? >> i have to say, ms. morales and the other people who came forward in that article are extremely brave, knowing they would face the consequences of losing their jobs, potentially losing their homes in the united states, it's a risk that no one should have to take. and what she did was she stepped out because she said that the president's rhetoric, the way he has dehumanized -- >> demonized -- >> demonized, dehumanized, and with the tragedy at the border with the separation of children this year, has done things that history will never forget. she just couldn't sit there ironing his boxer shorts anymore. she wasn't willing to be silent. i think that everyone needs to talk about this article because

this woman stepped out and was very brave in order to draw light to the hypocrisy and make sure that we remember who really is the face of undocumented immigration. it is people who are working so very hard in the shadows at great personal risk and they are the ones who keep this economy going. donald trump knows that. he's always known that. the way he casts undocumented immigrants as criminals and thugs and a threat to the very safety of white americans is a political ploy. he knows it's not true. and it seems pretty clear certainly that her manager, her supervisor, it was an open secret. she with you helped by her supervisor to go get renewed falsified papers. said, you know what? there's a grounds keepkeeper kn where to go. this was an open secret. he spent 70 days there since he got into his office, which is another story.

>> another segment. what does it say about protests, the way she's done this and the people who come on tv and go on the radio disagree with this administration, but this is an incredibly genuine and honest protest against the president. >> she has exposed herself. she has exposed her safety, her security, her family. she could be deported. she represents the 11 million undocumented individuals in this country. 4 million of whom are minors, people forget that. men, women, children who this country relies upon. their services, their hard work, they watch our kids, clean our house, when it's necessary to win votes they become a caravan of terrorists who will invade and take us over. imagine being this person who cleans donald trump's sheets, been given award, she sees this man calling her and her people invaders, rodents, rats, vermin. what she did by naming herself,

sharing her story is giving a light to the lived experiences of 11 million individuals in this country that we rely upon, when it is convene ykoconveniec become mrid cpolitical fodder. i hope one story can move the hearts of so many millions of americans who see them only as a villain. >> peter, you write in your book about a series you did on pbs about the constitution. you talked to a bunch of constitutional lawyers. put a pin on this, thinking about that and what we saw yesterday. >> yeah. it's interesting. one of the things i found when i did that documentary for pbs, everyone assumes the constitution controls everything. like the document would fly out of the national archives and punish people who violates it. it's not how it works.

it's a system of people. our founders assumed the people who run this country would be men and women who would serve with honor. we are a serve-governing nation, and we need the people to act hon rab aborably honorably, honestly even when it's not in their interest. what we see now is the crisis that what happens when we don't have that. put aside everything else, that woman is the only person that i can think of in the news right now who took a stand even though it's going to cost her her job and more. that's something that no republican senator has done, no republican congressman has done, very few pundits -- even i, there's thing i say into that camera that would cost me my job and i won't do it because i got mouths to feed. >> nevertheless -- >> that woman is braver than i am. >> peter, thank you very much. up next on "am joy,"

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i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. that does it for me. thank you very much for watching. "am joy" with jonathan capehart starts right now. what he's trying to do, because he's a weak person, not a very smart