by xfi pods, which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. that is our show for today, "a.m. joy" will be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern, but alex has the latest next. a good day to all of you. it is high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. this hour breaking down new and pivotal court filings from the president and alleged hush money payments by michael cohen.

plus paul manafort and the feds who say he's made several lice. >> there is some there there with the russia investigation. >> this is so incriminating. >> people want consequences. >> new this hour, speaking out, hear from the attorney for two undocumented women who worked at the president's golf club. but new this hour, the fallout is growing over revelation from the mueller investigation. in just about an hour we could hear from the president as he heads to philadelphia for the army/navy football game, but the bombshell headlines, new york prosecutors appear to implicate the president. they say hi former lawyer michael cohen acted in coordination with and at the direction of mr. trump in paying hush money to two women who

claimed they had afarce. these and other new damning details, and a federal investigation in new york. now, in response the president tweeted last night that he's totally clear, and just a few hours ago he again claimed there was no collusion. white house press secretary sarah sanders also dismissing the revelations, but the sentencing mem ooh says the former trump fixer was in contact with a russian who offered synergy on a government level. among manafort's five major lies, he was not truffle about his contact with the trump administration after he was indicted. plus he lied about his contacts to a longtime associate linked

to russian intelligence. >> i don't know that it will disappear into some dark hole. i think it will resurface in the congress. i think what the totality of today's filings show is that the house is going to have little choice the way this is going, other than to start impeachment proceedings. and richard blumenthal said this about legal action against the president. >> the pieces of the mosaic or the puzzle are coming into place, and the walls are closing in on donald trump, and his inner circle, including his family. i believe he could be indicted and the trial could be postponed until after he finishes service. i think the report will be extraordinarily damning, whether or not there's an indictment. >> we will be gauging the impact of the memos with our guests and

reporters and legal analysts. pete williams, a good day to you. you heard the reaction, they vary from bombshell, to essential nothing to see here from the president and the white house. is reality somewhere in the middle or is one side just flat-out wrong? >> i think it is somewhere in the middle. here's the challenge. i think everyone pretty well agrees that in theory this could happen or not, that the president is not going to be indicted. first of all, remember this filing came from the u.s. attorney's office in new york. they're bound by a justice department memo. the justice department views that have been in effect for years, who say for separation of powers and other reasons, the view is you can't indict a sitting president. they could always ask the attorney general for permission to do that, about you that seems

unlikely. the second problem there, by the way, is in order to prove that someone violated federal election law, you have to prove that they knew it was illegal what they were doing. you can use, as evidence of that, the fact that they try to do cover it up, but the president would have a defense there to say, i wasn't trying to cover it up for the campaign, i was trying to keep it from my wife fourth quarter damaging my brand, my reputation, so forth. that's the defense that probably ended up working for john edwards when he faced similar charges. if impeach is in the house, then you run into another difficulty, which is, it's never been conclusively determined that you can impeach someone for something that happened before they were in office. so, for all those reasons, i think as you say, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. no doubt it's political

damaging. the president has denied that he knew anything about this. the court documents seem to suggest that he did, but whether it's a legal or impeach annual thing, you know, that's way down the road. >> so i've heard what you want, but i want to do an either/or question here. some have certainly seized on the fact that a russian reached out to cohen, offering this political synergy for the campaign. do you think that potential puts the president in more peril, or the allegations that the president directed these payments to the two women? would that be worse? >> well, you know, worse, i think it's hard to compare the two. the revelations that russians were reaching out as early as november 2015 is very interesting. we don't know who the russian was, whether he was freelancing or representing vladimir putin or whatever, but it seems to bolster the intelligence community's claims that the

russians were actively trying to influence the election. then there's the suggestion that nothing ever came of this. i think that says more about the russians than it does about what the trump campaign was doing. >> meaning the reason he said no is he had another person with whom he was working. >> on a business deal, right. >> so he didn't need that personnel? is that the interpretation? >> well, need or whatever. i guess need for big purposes, right. the previous claims that he lied to mueller -- rather, to the congressional investigation about when work on the trump tower project stopped, remember, the crime there was lying to congress. there's never been a suggestion that trying to build trump tower in moscow or having a business relationship was in any way

illegal. what's interesting to the special counsel, that conduct shows that the people in trump's orbit were trying to open a channel to the russian government. they say it was for business, but the question is was it used for anything else? and of course nothing in these documents suggest that it was used for something else. >> here's a standard question. when will the mueller probe end? is that any clearer to you? >> no, it's no clearer. you know, use even know if mueller knows where the investigation will end. you never know when you have opened all the doors. one thing can lead to another. some aspects will still be going in march, for sure. that's the tentative sentencing date for paul manafort. whether they will still be subpoenaing people and having grand jury testimony, i don't know. the pace seems to have throttled back in recent months. it's a smaller staff. there seem to be fewer people

coming in to talk to the grand jury, but when will it end? as i said, i don't even know if mueller knows where it will end. i always ask, but if i have to, i will subpoena you on my show. >> move to quash. [ laughter ] >> thank you, pete. john barrett and paul butler, professor of law at georgetown. jill, we'll go ladies first for you. the cohen document says the president directed cohen vgts but do the documents say the president commit add crime, or is that vague? >> it isn't spelled out, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. it's hard to believe that he didn't have knowledge and intent in doing everything that he has done. he is clearly identified as the person who instructed the commission of a crime and a

crime that's been admitted to. cohen has admitted all his wrongdoing. i think there's a lot to pursue here and that it's time for a public hearing. we don't know everything that mueller knows, and we don't even know everything that congress knows, because some of these interviews have been conducted behind closed doors. it's time for some transparency in this case. but for anyone to suggest that is nothing there is simply delusional. you can't say that. you can't say that all the elements of a crime have been proven, but we're certainly close to that. >> john, i asked this question of pete, so i'm going to ask you it of you. is it political synergy from a

russian nationalist or the coordinate with cohen to directly order these hush payments? >> i agree with jill that factual development is more important he received an enormous amount of cash, and reportedly that includes a lot of tapes. so who knows if there's taped cohen phone calls that might fill in some of these blanks. that would determine how serious the problem is on the campaign coordinati coordination/contribution front. >> the president's title is what's preventing indictment. listen to what he said. >> it's remarkable to read that

sentencing memo and realize essential that the only thing keeping donald trump from being indicted and being charged with a crime beyond wealth and privilege is that he occupies the office of the presidency and that he's in the white house. if he didn't, it's very likely that he would be in court right now as well. >> do you agree with congress map cacongressman castro. >> in order to say that the president of the united states coordinated and directed an illegal conspiracy to violate election law, they would have to get approval from the highest levels. that's not something that two lowly assistant u.s. attorneys will just be able to put in a court filing. there would have to be very credible evidence. we also know that the cohen

cooperation continues, and the other people who are possible coconspirators are members of the trump organization, so possibly charges against them. >> do you agree with this? >> no, it's a little too sharp to say it's only the office that's preventing the indictment. what is preventing the indictment is the position of the justice department is that a sitting president cannot be indicted, plus the silence of the u.s. attorney's office, that is sitting on evidence. i think this probably will go a good while longer, and i think the congress, with oversight powers and a democratic majority in the new year, can call and

bring to light a lot of the information. remember, in a week or two, both michael cohen and general flynn will be sentenced, and their roles in the criminal justice process will be concluded. at that point, they're really free and available for the congress to call and question and pump out for whatever they've got. that could be quite a lot. so, jill, michael cohen pleaded guilty to violating campaign finance laws with the payments, but the president put out a tweet yesterday saying that the documents clear him. is that what these show? >> it is, as i said earlier, it's delusional to say that it shows that there are no crime. it absolutely does the opposite of that. even if all the elements of a crime by the president are not spelled out, his naming as basically an unindicted

co-conspirator shows that it does not prove nothing. of all the tweets by donald trump and rudy giuliani do not make it true that there's no collusion. it doesn't make it true that there's no obstruction. the area that he has avoided answering any questions on, he has clearly obstructed. i just want to add i am in the group that says a president can be indicted and should be indicted when there's a crime. if the president went out and shot someone on fifth avenue, you cannot tell me that he would not be subject to indictment for that crime just because he's the president. i do not think that's what the impeachment clause of our constitution means. impeachment providing an additional method of political action. i am not taking a position on whether impeachment is the correct political decision right now. i am just saying legally you

could be indicted or impeached for some of the crimes that have been committed. i don't think there's a bar too impeaching someone for a crime they committed prior to becoming president. particularly a campaign violation which affected his ability to become president or working with russians or using stolen e-mails in order to help promote his election. i really think he could be impeached for any of the conduct that preceded his presidency or during his transition or presidency, which includes the obstruction. i do not think there's any executive privilege for firing someone in order to protect his position, or any of the other things that loose like obstruction in plain sight. >> paul, convictly to you, final word here, your thoughts on the president saying that these documents clear him. >> they don't clear him at all.

he's named as a co-conspirator. paul manafort committed legal suicide. when you have to ask, why is that? this is a 70-year-old man who, if he comes clean, he gets to maybe not go to prison for the rest of his life for stuff he pled guilty to, but basically in violating in cooperation agreement and lying, he's deciding that he is going to go to prison to help donald trump. we have to ask why that is. it sounds like for some reason paul manafort is more afraid of donald trump and the russians than he is of going to prison for the rest of his life. >> and he may be hoping for a pardon at some point. all right. thank you all so much. you may think we just told you all there is to hear, but there is more. we'll tell you what's left, next. jimmy's gotten used to his whole room smelling like sweaty odors.

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this is the most impeachable president ever, and i think they need to come out. if he makes any pardons, that could possibly by obstruction of justice, and i think mueller has him dead to rights on russia.

welcome to you both. aisha, good to see you again. president president has taken to tweeting again, and sarah sanders has two statements echoing the same. how would i interpret that strategy? >> if you say it enough, maybe people will believe it. if you say no collusion, no collusion, but clearly these filings yesterday did not clear the president and they did not -- i think sarah sanders was trying to argue that they were somehow in and out related, but the president is individual-1.

in the filing, it said individual-1 directed michael cohen to make these payments. then we find out that manafort has been in contact with senior administration officials up to this year. the connections to the president are there, even if the white house doesn't want to see them. >> what about, eugene, does any part of the president's tweets or sarah sanders' statements hold any truth. for sarah's party, she said there's nothing news here, nothing we didn't already know. >> i don't think that's true. i think one thing that is fascinating is we know he wasn't

cooperating to the degree he will perhaps get no prison time. there was definitely a recommendation he could get prison time. i think some of the details about the trump tower in moscow were new revelations. the idea that if it would have been carried through, that hundreds of millions of dollars could have benefited the trump corporation, which cohen was aware of, because he continued to have thinks conversation with his individual-1 well into the 2016 campaign. one thing that was fascinating in terms of new information, i believe manafort was in communication with a senior administration official well into 2016. the aftermath of the election, one said the white house trump administration.

what about the number of democrats december do you think impeachment is an easier sell to democrats who may have been reluctant? >> i wouldn't go that far. i think that it's going to be difficult to make that case and to do it immediately. you haven't seen a lot of democratic leadership, nancy pelosi and others really embracing that. i'm sure what they would argue is they need to do more investigation and what comes out of everything that mueller is looking into that's a serious matter. the fact this is even bubbling up, not just to people on the fringe, that's important. eugene, this is looking through an extended lens. do you see a scenario where senate republicans wholesale abandon the president? >> i think it's possible.

one thing that could give people some hope, perhaps, is just how they have responded to the jamal khashoggi indication, where intelligence reveals he was murdered by the saudi government. voters sent congress a message, saying they did not wanting to lawmakers just doing whatever it is that trump wanted them to do. i think reps who realize if they want to remain in office they're going to have to perhaps respond to the administration. nbc news has confirmed that john kelly answered some questions to the mueller team.

is that a surprise? >> it is interesting that kelly was in contact with mueller, but it seems like a part of this issue is this idea of the obstruction of justice, and that's actions that the president was taking after he was in office. but we do not know what mueller was looking for from kelly. i would think anyone in that white house now, they would be concerned that they could be caught up in this investigation, because we're seeing that the tentacles are going very far and very deep into president trump's inner circle and into the administration. thank you both for weighing in. much appreciate it. meanwhile, she risked everything to tell her story. the undocumented woman who was hired to work at trump's golf course, and what happened to her hours since that report broke. here we go.

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and accessoriesphones for your mobile phone. like this device to increase volume on your cell phone. - ( phone ringing ) - get details on this state program call or visit new today, "new york times" reporting two more workers were undocumented when hired at the trump national golf club in new jersey. this comes after an undocumented worker told the times she has

worked without status. >> translator: i liked working for limb, but when i saw how he talked about us, i field humiliated. >> reporter: how diagnose the job without documentation? >> i told them. they said no, it doesn't matter. her attorney is joining me. what's happened to this client since this story broke? >> vicki is in a safe place, she's doing well. after the story broke, she received a phone call from the very same woman that she has accused of abuse. i find that interesting. i advised her not to pick up the phone, and she has been receiving calls from other workers. two of them have received other calls from undocumented workers who are currently still at the

job, and we're getting mixed messages. >> what are they telling you? >> they said they were victims of abuse. at least two of them have said that false documents were provided by someone inside of the trump organization, that they were coerced into doing work they didn't want to do. they were threatened with deportation. that's why we have been asking for a federal investigation. i believe the department of homeland security should definitely look into this as soon as possible. remember, we believe there are more workers inside of the golf club, and this is the same story every worker will probably share -- that they were working there, it was a toxic environment, that some of them may have been threatened with deportation. these are elements of federal crimes, and they need to be investigated. >> two things here. you said claims of abuse.

i want to know first of all, what kind of abuse, and secondly you're saying the trump organization, according to your clint, at least two of them, provided these women with the false documents? >> yes, that is something i think has not been covered quite extensively, but yes, in the case of vicki and sandra, someone inside the trump organization helped them obtain these documents. >> wait, how did that happen? we'll give you the documentation? >> in the case of sandra, she was only required to get two pictures, once the documents were given to her, she was supposed to hand them over to a supervisor and told never to talk about the incident again. in the case of vicki, her picture-perfect green card photo was taken inside the golf club,

and next day she was taken to a town nearby to pick up the documents. >> and the abuse allegations. >> vicki was assaulted three times by her direct supervisor. sandra witnessed other women being abused physically, assaulted as well. >> what kind are we talking about? >> hair pulling, pushing against a wall. when sandra complained to the head of the golf club, they assigned someone to sort of try to calm the situation down and nothing happened after that. >> what is the trump organization saying about these allegations? >> we have not heard from them. >> doesn't she risk deportation? doesn't the light that gets

shined on this situation cause risk to others? >> remember, when you are a victim of the crime, the law protects you. there are immigration laws that will protect victims of crime. they would probably be eligible for a e visa or and t-visa. she said i'm tired of this, i've been dealing with this for years, i can't tay it anymore. at one point she had a positive image, but since then, the abuse is getting worse. so she is really upset. she wants people to know what is happening, and vicki has applied for asylum, and we will be arguing in front of an asylum officer on december 17th. we believe she has an extremely good asylum claim. she will be able to win that and get legal permanent residency.

>> i'm going to say the organization did for the response to your case, but a spokesperson has said this -- we have tens of thousands of employees across our properties and have very strict hiring practices. if an employee submitted false document aches in an attempt to circumstance come vent the law, they will be terminated immediately. is there anything that suggests the president himself knew about the immigration status of the people working there. >> we have no evidence that the president knew, but these women worked inside the president's house. they weren't working in a hotel. they were being managed by a woman who as direct contact with the first lady. that's why we are asking for a federal investigation and/or state authority investigation to determine who knew what, what did they know, why wasn't

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when the evidence becomes clear that that you likely have a criminal sitting in office, what does congress do? we have to wait for a mueller report. there has to be a fair and thorough process, and also the american people have to be convinced. congressman castro there speaking after an explosive court filing. my panel is joining me. all right, guys, we're going to get into it here. bill, to you had first, how do you think this is a game changer. i mean, game changer. >> i think they're huge. we have for now the u.s. attorney saying for the very first time not just that michael cohen lied, michael cohen was

involved in some illegal business, but the president of the united states directed michael cohen to break federal law. in effect, they say that the president of the united states is a criminal. he directed him to lie about what happened in russia. he directed him to lie about payments to two bim who had alleged affairs with him. >> with respect to the alleged affairs, this was to cover up sex. the president is not saying this, but you can't suggest that i don't want my wife or family to be hurt by this, and how does this differ from bill clinton? >> it matters because the alleged, again, breaking of the federal law is not that he didn't want his wife to hear. it's that he did not report it as a campaign expense. it was $130,000 in one case,

$150,000 in another case, which is way, way over the limit. again, the president instructed his personal attorney to lie about it. so to help him in his campaign so he wouldn't be hurt in his campaign, and therefore to keep that secret from federal election authorities. he's required to report something like that. he did not. the president of the united states is accused of breaking the law, that is huge. >> how do you see it, rick? >> i want to back up a bit. i think the mueller investigation has been going very slow and people have been impatient. once the report is made, in all likelihood we'll see that and we need to be patient about the process going forward. impeachment is serious, but it's different from indictment. a current justice department guidelines say a president can't be indicted. you can just apply it to you just don't want the ability for

the congress to split kale take out a president. i'm not saying that's what they're doing in this case. i agree with what a lot of bill says, but there were only two presidents impeached. nixon did not get impeached. none of them ever resulted in a convicti conviction. part of an impeachment means there has to be a political will, and then the senate would have to convict. in order to do that, there has to be an extraordinary will. and that will will come if the american people are overwhelmingly convinced that the president needs to be impeached. it's otherwise it's not going to happen. >> rick, before i move on to elena, i just want to ask you this. just getting word from kristen

welker. giuliani is es this is very near the independence of the investigation and they clearly don't have any evidence regarding the president. is giuliani right? >> he easic named in a sentencing guideline do you remember as individual-1. he's implicated in two felonies. that is very serious. i don't think the mueller investigation is going slowly. but i think people are getting impatient for the result. i think it's very serious, but let's see what's in the investigation. remember, as you alluded to earlier, i looked at the starr report, i thought it would be condemning, and i couldn't believe, this is it? this is what we have? this did not rise in my opinion -- and nobody really knows what high crimes and misdemeanors really are, but i knew that wasn't it. >> how big of a factor should

the appetite for impeachment be? to start the proposals if there's not broad support for them? >> i do. i think that it is the responsibility the democrats, particularly the house oversight and judiciary committees to conduct investigations in this order. i do think that the actions that we're seeing, these are the actions for which the impeachment clause was written, but the democrats do have to make the case both to the american public and to the senators. as rick mentioned, it's important we're patient and ultimately the house oversight and the judiciary committees can make the case to those two thirds of the senate that would need to vote after the articles of impeachment are brought forward. what about 2020, joe? that has to be a factor in these

determinations. what do you think poses a greater threat to the president -- impeachments proceedings? or just look at this week, economic downturns. >> the economy, of course, is on a roller coaster, but economies go up and they go down. right now i think everybody is pleased with the rate of unemployment being as low as it is, but there are other challenges, certainly trade fears, the result of what may happen with the agreements that are currently in place, but i think in 2020 what will matter is how thefared, how he was treated by the democratic house. the senate is a republican majority still, and i don't think there would be votes there for impeachment, but certainly there would be appetite in the house, once the report is filed. to the degree that they fall

short could certainly build sympathy with his support base. if there's a crowded field of democrats running for the presidency, and there's not unity on the part of democrats heading into the 2020 election. >> can i ask quickly whether any or all of you agree with the president's tweet right now that he put out last night -- totally clears the president -- with regard to all that we learned yesterday. in what world? but i would like you to weigh in on that. >> it reminds me of, other than that, mrs. lincoln, how do you enjoy the show? nothing touches hem except for the fact he was accused of committing two federal crimes. >> rick, your thoughts?

>> i would say, along with that wave china deal, a mexican wall paid for by the mexicans, a new paper plant being built in south carolina and a middle-class tax cut. that's what i say. >> i will say as others have said before, that he lies like other people breathe. i think it's insulting to the american public and part for the course. >> not meaning to be insulting, but last to you, joe. what do you think? >> i don't think it's over yet, of course. i think we have to wait for the mueller report to come out. all right. good to see all four of you. thank you so much. i'm going to speak with sam nunberg, and whether he knows anything about the explosive claims. and up next the lavish saudi spending at president trump's hotel, which has brought up the

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new details about saudi lobbies booking an estimated 500 niles at trump international d.c. and paid ultimately more than $270,000 to that hotel within three short months. joining me now. jonathan o'connell who cowrote this article. jonathan, quite explosive reporting. have you found any connection between the president et cetera financial relationship and his reluctance to hold the saudi crown prince accountable? >> we have not found that. obviously the president has said in a number of ways he precious the saudis' business. they purchased a number of properties over the year, including a yaw.

but -- the way that military veterans were pitted against september 11th families by the lobbyi lobbyists. can you tell me about that. >> yeah, the saudi government hired a lobbyist to recruit veterans to change this. and a lot of veterans thought it would be a great thing. they got to have an open bar at the trump hotel and be a part of something they felt was important for veterans. afterwards a lot of them said they felt duped. they did not know saudi arabia was paying for this in the first place. they did not really understand the legislation they were

talking about, and some of them afterwards wrote a letter to congress, saying that they apologized. >> this one veteran said he never saw anything like this. it was lavish, so extraordinary he was puzzled by the whole thing. the subpoenas went out for 13 trump businesses and 18 competing businesses. they have a deadline of january 3rd to get that. what more are you expecting to turn up? >> that's a good question. we don't know the names of the competing agencies. i assume it's the various competitors pitching business to the same clients. now, if the information shows -- we don't know what it shows. it could show they are losing business to the trump hotel, because some customers want to

be at the president's hotel, maybe they'll have political influence because they spend money there. it's unknown, but the reason the u.s. attorney general are serves for those documents, and also the foreign customers are the biggest. a number

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