on the mueller situation, we're very happy with what we are reading because there was no collusion whatsoever. there never has been. the last thing i want is help from russia on a campaign. as far as the reports that we see, according to everybody i've spoken, to i have not read it. there's absolutely no collusion, which is very important. >> good morning and welcome to "am joy". i'm in for joy reed. the walls are closing in on trump presidency after bomb shell filings by special counsel robert mueller's team and federal prosecutors in new york. on saturday we learned white house chief of staff john kelly will finally leave the place he reportedly referred to as crazy town at the end of the year. news of his departure came just one day after we learn that kelly was questioned by mueller's team as part of a possible investigation into obstruction of justice. donald trump insists he's been

vindicated by the latest court filings but unfortunately for the president that isn't true. not even a little bit. federal prosecutors suggesting that trump violated federal campaign finance law by directing hush money payments in the lead up to the 2016 election to two women who claim they had sexual encounters with him. meanwhile house republicans released transcripts after grilling former fbi director james comey behind closed doors. comey answering questions on a wide range of topics including but not limited to her emails. to be clear, the republicans were focused on hillary's emails still and not ivanka's use of a personal account for government business. curious. joining me is timothy o'brien and thoroughfare "trump nation," nick acrkerman. thank you all for being here.

i want to go to something that the president said in that opening montage. there was no collusion whatsoever. nick, let me start with you. in all the filings that were released on friday, is the president correct in saying that? >> first of all, he admits he didn't read the mueller filing which absolutely puts him right into the middle of the conspiracy between the russian government and the campaign, the same one that 13 russian intelligent operate jafs have already been charged with this past july. if you look what cohen has said and what mueller has said and you put it together with other facts like the statement that was made before the senate committee when he lied about trump tower date when it ended, and there's more to it than that. if you go up on that statement, there's a whole bunch of other item that he denied being involved in, most notably that

meeting that occurred in prague after manafort left the campaign. if you look at this you see as of september the first meeting he had with the mueller group he was still lying. the second meeting the memo makes clear cohen came clean on everything related to the russian involvement. >> so then the president's tweet that said that he was quote vindicated also is there any evidence to prove the president right? >> just the contrary. go ahead, jim. >> he said totally vindicated. thank you. exclamation point. he's got to tell himself these things to keep moving forward because what he's facing now isn't innuendo or opinion. there's a substantial fact pattern in place through this

raft of sentencing memos we have. he wasn't even an innocent bystander. at a minimum he could be an unindicted co-conspirator. the facts you see laid out in these documents he's orchestrating a lot of this. the payments to stormy daniels and karen mcdougal he played an orchestrating role in that event. . it certainly looks like prosecutors are very curious about who coached michael cohen when he went to congress and lied about the timing of the moscow deal. there's that sort of halo around that, was the president the person coaching him. that has to be one of the things all of this moves towards. i think the other thing in all of it is, you know, my friend nick wisely told me a very long time ago this is like watergate and if you just focus on the fact that something was stolen and people scrambled to cover that up you get somewhere. but also it's watergate for dummies because there's a lot of

very ignorant unsophisticated people. >> i've watched a lot of episodes of "law and order" and "law and order svu" and "csi." natasha, let me get your reaction from your vantage point of acreporter covering all of this. the documents released on friday your impressions and in your answer talk about just how much trouble the president and his administration is in. >> yeah. so my biggest takeaway from friday's bomb shell revelations is that mull certificate laying the ground work to investigate trump's businesses as a potential lynch pin between his relationship with russia during the campaign, and whether he had any involvement in russia's election interference. trump has obviously said going into his business dealings and financial history would be a red line. now we see mueller kind of, you

know, methodically laying the ground work for saying no, this is extremely relevant to the core of our investigation. another big takeaway is that michael cohen is no hero here. he only began telling the truth to mueller, he only began cooperating with the special counsel after he realized he was going to be charged, after he was already charged by the southern district of new york and after he realized he was going to be facing substantial prison time. he was not forth comicoming wit investigation by mueller. that's something also to take into consideration. another thing he has not been cooperating much with the southern district of new york because he still wants to protect himself. we don't know what exactly he's been not totally forthcoming about to new york prosecutors, but it probably has something to do with his own financial dealings which would be within the jurisdiction of the southern district. those are the two biggest keys here, the first of course mull

certificate now saying look it's fair game because you're purr sawing deal in moscow and michael cohen was keeping you apprised of all of this for the election for us to look at whether or not that factored into russia's election interference. second cohen is definitely an opportunist here but he was lying up until he realized company be facing jail time and i think we really need to factor that in a, when considering how to perceive cohen in all of this. >> that might explain to me at least why the documents from the southern district of new york were so incredibly harsh on michael cohen compared to the document from the special counsel's office about michael cohen. your impressions and takeaways from the documents we got back, we got from on friday concerning cohen and manafort but also the president's reaction to all of this. >> i think everybody took out their popcorn friday night and started reading through the

documents themselves. the two takeaways is mueller and special prosecutor out of new york both wanted to basically throw their book at him. they did say he should receive the maximum penalty for what he's doing, mueller wants to use it as a deterrent for folks to even consider lying to the special counsel. the fact that the president tweeted out saying he was completely absolved also speaks to the fact that he knows his base is in echo chamber. he knows whatever he tweets they will believe. that's where the media and the press and the democrats really have to walk a fine line so that they can demonstrate this is something that is a nonpartisan investigation. remind folks every day that mull certificate a republican. that is what will make folks believe is this a nonpartisan investigation. when i read the president's tweets on friday i had to chuckle. the president is fine. that individual number one sure is in trouble and the more you start considering that, you

start basically peeling back the layers, the fact that manafort had such hubris that even under investigation he's still texting and having conversations with the president, with someone in the administration up to the middle of this year demonstrates that they feel they are completely "untouchable" and that's perhaps why manafort kept lying because he feels he'll have a presidential pardon. the walls are caving in on him and the president. >> that was the point made yesterday on the show, manafort, his lawyers were talking to inauguration but manafort himself was going around his lawyers to talk to folks in the administration. we got to talk about james comey and his going behind closed doors, republicans in the waning days of their majority still hammering away at comey, hammering away at hillary clinton. there's a word count from the comey transcript. russia 128 times. clinton 116 times. trump 99 times. mueller 32 times.

tim, nick, one of you, why are we still -- why are we still talking about her emails when there's so many other more relevant pressing things to talk about? >> because it's a simple answer. you got republicans that are part of that committee that are pro russian, trying to protect donald trump and the russian government and so the way they can try to do that is, again, the old method of deflecting away and going after clinton's emails. not mentioning the fact, of course, that ivanka trump has done the exact same thing. >> right. >> right. this is the last-gasp of the sort of nof nunez hail mary mom by carrying water for the white house. they are running out of time. this is what they are trying to do. i think the cal can you laws that has to be occurring to the president right now, given he'll lose some of these partisan supporters in the house and the

house can proceed at pace what will trump do in that environment? we'll get to a very dangerous place. i always thought that if push comes to shove, if bob mueller indicts donald trump jr. or jeb bush jeb bush he'll fire robert mueller on encourage william barr to do that for him if he ends up as attorney general. >> i've been sitting here thinking i know there's a question i'm supposed to ask nick. this is it. why on earth would someone of bill barr's pedigree and stature in washington and reputation, why on earth would he walk willingly into this house of horror? >> good question. but i think it's a very hard position to refuse. being attorney general of the united states is an extremely important position. it's hard to believe that somebody with his background is going to do the bidding for trump with respect to trying to cover up this russian investigation. >> downtown think they've had that conversation? it's what ignited trump's fury

to jeff sessions. why would he let barr walk in here without a conversation about that. >> i don't think the two had a conversation. donald trump is off the charts on this. i don't think he goes ahead of appointing people and doing interviews. he has other people telling him what to do. he was looking for somebody that could be confirmed without a big to-do in the senate. >> maria? >> if anything what we learned from the president he's a severe micromanager. nothing leaves his office without his stamp of approval. if something happens he says there will be hell to pay even if i told you to do it. i think it's the opposite. i'm not surprised to find out there's sideline conversations he's having with the next attorney general to ensure that they are somewhat aligned, perhaps, on how to deal with mueller. >> there's an important point on that that i want to note. bill barr was interviewed to be the president's defense lawyer last year as part of this russia

investigation. so that is a huge piece of this. trump, obviously, knows where he stands on certain issues. he obviously endeered to bill barr because bill barr defended the president's decision to fire james comey. so i don't think it's necessarily a coincidence that the person he interviewed to be his defense lawyer is now in position of attorney general. whether or not bill barr actually takes steps to limit the investigation remains to be seen. i would not be surprised. obviously, you know, there's another piece of this which is that he's really good friends with the white house counsel, bill barr is. there's all sorts of contacts and dynamics we need to watch. >> natasha you just dropped some truths there that i did not know. that bill barr interviewed to be one of the president's defense lawyers. >> he's been openly critical of the mueller investigation. >> so now that natasha has dropped this amazing bit of

information here, how worried should we all be that the president has -- will have taken a huge step closer to getting rid of mueller? >> we should always worry. there's no question. we should always worry he's doing whatever he can to undermine this investigation. that's been i had pattern all along. the good news, those is barr has got appear before the senate committee. he has to answer questions. he's going grilled on all of these facts. so that is, at least, some consolation. >> he'll be grilled but with republicans increasing their majority in the senate likelihood of his confirmation -- >> he's going to be confirmed. but they want to get certain statements out of him and certain cover. they feel he'll go ahead with. keep in mind this is typical of trump. he picks a supreme court justice

because he's against prosecuting the president and he picks an attorney general who is against the investigation. now whether or not these people will actually act on that is a different story. >> get him on record. wait we got to go. >> i want to say that with the republicans, whether or not they actually interrogate and do not confirm him really means whether or not they learned their lessons from the mid-term elections. before they had hubris. will they learn their lessons to retain control of the senate in 2020. >> with that we have to leave it. thank you all. maria will join us in the next hour. next up if at first your don't succeed, try, try, try, try, try again. donald trump's latest chief of staff is finally on his way out. that's next. ♪

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i want to bring you in on this question of who might replace john kelly. >> we were wondering yesterday how long john kelly has before he gets fired for calling the president an idiot. >> this may will lead to general kelly being ousted as chief of staff. >> one name that's not on here is john kelly and it's widely reported there are some in the white house that want to push kelly out. >> john kelly under fire.

new reports he's offering his resignation to president trump. >> it seems like six times is the charm because it's actually happening this time, folks. donald trump confirming to reporters saturday that chief of staff, john kelly, will leave the white house by the end of the year. according to the "new york times" two originally agreed friday night that kelly would make the announcement tomorrow. but i guess those explosive court filings against michael cohen and paul manafort which clearly implicated the president must have gotten in the way of that plan. joining me now two of my colleagues from "the washington post," jennifer rubin who is an msnbc political analyst. opinion writer dana millbank and president of the bernard center and mr. dawson a republican strategist. thank you all for being here. part of me wonders how much of john kelly ace departure is the natural turn of things in any

administration. this is a very tough job. how much of it has to do with the dysfunctional relationship between kelly and the president? >> i think it's more the latter. we know that they at times have not been speaking. i think his style, kelly's style and trump's have never quite meshed. from the outside perspective i don't think he's been quite frankly very helpful at all. he hasn't restrained the president in any meaningful way and in some ways he's encouraged his worst instincts in terms of his immigration policy. so i think he's going and i'm not sure it's going to make the overall difference in the functioning of the white house because trump remains. >> write a column at the time of his appointment when i said -- that's when he fired anthony scaramucci, that that was the high point because most likely he wouldn't be able to rein in

the president and control the president's impulse and dana, what we've seen this entire time is exactly what jennifer has been talking about. >> yeah. i'm not sure i agree because we don't know how much worse it would have been without him and of course we may be about to find out how much worse it could get if they will install this 36-year-old kid as the chief of staff in the white house. >> talk about nick ayers. >> yes who has no ability to say no to the president, has no clout with the military or on capitol hill and allow trump to run roughshod. it's powelly was able -- powell able to rein in the president. it's a thankless job to try to do this. let's give kelly credit and say he was perhaps motivated by a patriotic instinct to stabilize things. it doesn't work. there's no way to stabilize things. in the previous segment you

asked about bill barr. i don't know how it will end for bill barr and it will end badly and that's because it's ended badly for everybody who has tried to come in and work with donald trump possibly with texas sepgs of ivanka trump. >> and nikki haley. she has been able to escape unscathed. economic ayers is chief of staff to vice president pence and the idea he'll potentially come in and be the chief of staff to president trump, do you know nick ayers and if you do, what should we expect from him? is he the right person for this job? >> nick ayers is a friend first and second of all, you know, 36 years old as a kid, in to that. when you're in politics and you start at an early age you grow old a lot faster. nick has grown older faster than most people. he's dealt with very large egos.

so he's a very talented guy. and to general kelly's credit i was very pleased as a republican that works and watches government, general kelly did bring a lot of stability, but he's a military guy. donald trump did surround himself with military types. donald trump -- it's going to be a while for donald trump be a seasoned politician. he's different. he's a chaotic type president and i think this change, if nick does get it and does finally make the cut, i think you'll find it refreshing because nick is going to position the president for 2020. nick will have people around him that are political and a political background. i think you learn from our side, we learned to appreciate that

structure. not a political hack but a political organizer who has been very successful in dealing with large egos of elected politicians. i think if it is nick i think you'll be very surprised at the tenure that comes out and nick has been smart enough to say he's not going to be there that long. >> he's a smart guy. he's considered part of the republican establishment and we all know how much the president disdains the republican establishment. if he does get the job, i'm going to start that countdown clock right away. you know, there was something said that kelley brought a lot of stability to the white house, to the job. everyone watched this little montage. chief of staff kelly brought something else to this job. >> the vast majority of the people that move illegally into the united states are not bad people. they are not criminals.

they are not ms-13. but they are also not people that would easily assimilate notice the united states. there are 690,000 official daca registrants. and the president sent over what amounts to be two and a half times that number to 1.8 million. the difference between 690,000 and 1.8 million were the people that some would say were too afraid to sign up, others would say were too lazy to get off their asses to sign up. the congresswoman in a long tradition of empty barrels making the most noise and we were stunned. stunned that she had done it. even for someone that is that empty a barrel. >> and michele, from what we know, those last two clips we showed, the chief of staff to the president of the united states lied from that podium,

give me your perspective of chief of staff john kelly's ten new year in the white house? >> it's so interesting to hear so many, people had so many positive things about john kelly, to say but i can't help but fixate on the i was the because he went into the administration with so much respect and, you know, the american public, we love our military. we thank them for their service. we also ascribe to members of the military to people doing everything that's in the best interest of the country and to be people who love every single american. so to see john kelly go into the administration and support the president after the horrible statements that he made in support of white nationalists, after what he saw what happened in charlottesville was absolutely devastating and scary. the comment he made about representative width son, again lying to the american public, attacking an african-american woman, much in the way that the president has done so from day one in the office, again,

frighten, scary, is this really who we want to be the chief of staff? so i think he gets mixed reviews. was it a good thing to get rid of omarosa manigault newman? many say yes. getting rid of steve bannon? an absolutely good thing. but when you look at the i was the he gets mixed reviews. i don't see how you could say that he did anything positive while he was the president's chief of staff and, again, when you look at the attacks, to support the family separation policy of this administration, his views on immigration, i think if anything it has shown us you can go into this administration with a good reputation and leave absolutely destroyed. >> with that we'll have to leave it there. next up voter fraud in north carolina has been exposed. the man who almost had the

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donald trump was busy firing his chief of staff republicans in several states were trying to steal your democracy.

that's next. you're watching "am joy".

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humira. if this investigation finds proof of illegal activity on either side to such a level that it could have changed the outcome of the election then i would wholeheartedly support a new election to ensure all voters have confidence in the results. as we move towards resolution i look forward to participating in a transparent, factual and fair

process. >> the big question in north carolina's 9th congressional district is whether a brand-new election will take place due to the possibility of election fraud. republican mark harris leads the democrat by 905 votes. but the state board of elections has refused to certify the results and instead calling for a public hearing by december 21th to investigate claims of fraud and irregularities related to absentee by mail ballots. the person at the heart of the allegations, leslie dallas has been named as a person of interest. joining me now dan mccreedy the democratic nominee. thank you for being on the show. >> great to be won you this morning. >> let me get your reaction to

something that dallas woodhouse had to say in response to a story in my paper, "the washington post". he said this all in with chris hayes back on thursday. >> we often get complaints about people who don't like what happened in the primary races and perhaps we should have paid more attention. in plead guilty to that. here's what i would say. the only thing we could have done is called state and federal investigators and the board of elections which already knew and have been a part of this, have been investigating this for a decade and haven't got their hands around it. that's all we could have done. quite frankly, i looked at the overall vote numbers in bladen county and saw mr. harris won. >> your reaction to dallas? >> well, we heard during the election rumors of bad activity. bladen county is a very small

county. people know who the shady characters are. what is amazing here is that my opponent mark harris went out and hired this known criminal, dallas, who was under investigation for absentee ballot fraud to run his absentee ballot program amidst all these allegations. >> let's play -- to your point about how mr. dallas was a known criminal, here is robert pittinger who lost to harris in the primary since he heard about irregularities. take a listen to this. >> have you ever heard of voter irregularities in the district. is this news is now >> it's been out there. we were fully aware of it. some pretty unsavory people particularly in bladen county and i didn't have anything to do with them. let me just leave it at that.

>> you know, it makes me wonder when you got into this race, how aware were you and how prepared were you for the type of activity that we're now talking about? >> i never expected what we're seeing now. i just never would have expected this last week. i was at disneyworld a couple of weeks ago with my four little kids and my wife laura. we thought this election was over. we then watched over the last week not just day-by-day but literally hour-by-hour as more evidence, more affidavits involving actual fraud, and illegal activity have come to light, and all roads lead to the top of my opponent mark harris' campaign, yet he's refused to even answer a single question about his activities bank rolling this criminal. >> let's take a listen to a person who thought they were

voting by absentee. take a listen to this. >> a young lady came to the door. she knocked on the door, asked if i had an absentee ballot. i broke it front of her. i filled out two box. she said she would fill rest out. it wasn't important. i signed it. gave to it her. it was not filled. she said she would filt and come back to me and show it was filled. i never got a show back from her. >> and so you found out, though, that your absentee ballot was never turned in. >> yeah. the investigator came. he came and showed me that my name was on my absentee ballot did not come up in the system. >> as a person who has run for office, you asked for the public's trust to send you to washington, to find out and to hear not just from that young lady because there's been interviews all over the place from people who thought they had

voted and their votes did not count, what is your message to the people of the 9th district of north carolina in the middle of all this? >> well, this really is not about me. it's not even about mark harris. this is much bigger than one single election. this is about people whose voices were taken from them. people whose voices were silenced. you know, your vote is your voice in our democracy. i started out serving in the marine corps overseas. i understand what it means to fight for our country. i understand what it means to fight for our democracy. i just never imagined we would have our democracy under attack right here in north carolina. and furthermore, if you think about it, you know, there's been such a long struggle for voting rights in this country. one of the most special days on my campaign was having the opportunity to campaign with congressman john lewis, who is an american hero and a civil

rights leader, and, you know, come to find out just down the road from where we were campaigning together there are still people today who are having their votes and their voices taken from them. >> have you heard -- have you heard from mark harris since the day you called to concede before you with d withdrew your conces? >> i have not. mark harris since this whole thing has issued, has read one statement written by his lawyers, has refused to answer a single question about what he knew and when. and people are very upset about that. you know, people are demanding that mark rice come clean, stop hiding behind his lawyers and tell the people what he knew and why he hired a known criminal to run his absentee ballot program. >> thank you very much for being on the program. dan mccready running in north carolina's 9th district.

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embarrassed by this activity. i'm very concerned that the 2.6 million people that voted and they represent the rest of the people of wisconsin did not have their voices heard because of the actions of the legislature over the past few days. >> well, this week republicans yet again proved that they are sore losers. two republican controlled state legislatures quickly passed new legislation in an attempt to strip executive power from democrats before they even take office. in michigan the state senate approved legislation limiting the incoming secretary of state's ability to enforce campaign finance laws overseeing 2020 redistricting. and in wisconsin the state legislature is doing nearly everything it can to make it harder for governor-elect in the incoming democratic administration to govern over critical issues like health care. joining me now to explain what's happening in those states is former mayor of lansing,

michigan and wisconsin democratic state senator. thank you very much for being here. let me start with the state senator here. what on earth is happening here? >> it is truly a power grab. it's stealing the election. it's frauding the voters out of their vote. what the republicans have done is taken power from the judicial branch through the attorney general and given it to the legislature. they've also done the same thing, they've taken power from the governor, in particular over economic development, our department of commerce and given it to the legislature. this really, this power grab is an imbalance. >> let's take a listen to robin voss who is wisconsin state representative on the republican ration educationale for this new legislation. let's take a listen. >> we'll have every opportunity

to find common ground with the governor-elect. that will happen. we have to. we have to work together. i also know the situation we're sitting in right now if we do not pass these.

i think what's happening is fox is at a point now where they are, you know, trying to maintain things and more and more with foreign affairs and certainly in the mueller probe and other legal problems. even is fox news viewers will be seeing with their own eyes it is not all fake news that actually we are in a whole world of hurt right here. i think you're already beginning to see cracks in it. i think the whole notion of having this parallel reality is

breaking down. >> really? you think we'll start to see cracks among the fox news crowd, that light of reality, cracks of light are breaking through? >> i pray that dana is right. i really do. they are putting up an awfully good front frankly. in the heart of hearts do they know it is coming down around their ears perhaps but they are going to go down in flames i suppose. i think not only do you have federal prosecutors in the southern district of new york saying that the president elected illegal payments to women. you have proof they were continuing to communicate with the white house. >> right. >> so who was that and what were they up to and is that part of

the obstruction? i think we have have a much broader sense. it's not just a couple of things during the campaign. it's a whole series of conduct that hasn't stopped. >> uh-huh. >> up to the present. i think we have a new definition of collusion or as the prosecutors say synergy. it has also been revealed as early as 2015. trump was collaborating, if you will, to get his trump tower in moscow at a time he was defending putin. so i think this is really sit off the point. >> i think it's a crack in that sort of fox news resolve. here is an interview that carlson gave. a german language newspaper. sheer wh

here is what he has to say. he would build a wall to fund planned parenthood. he added that it was probably lost causes. trump doesn't understand is system and his own agencies don't sporupport him. he hasn't surrounded himself with people and hasn't done all of the things he needs to do. it is mostly his fault he hasn't achieved those things he added. >> yeah. it might be the one and only til time. >> it will be not only informing your on what the president is doing and doing right. let's be clear. fox news has become a dotted line to the propaganda machine. their viewers don't have to to hear the totality. that is reenforced by the president's tweets, reenforced

when they have a very close group of individuals sending them messages. they listen and they go to their evening news. all of them with the exact same messaging. it is dangerous when it comes to how do people have the right information to make the right decision? when you were pulling these on fox news the fox news started coming close to 7 days before any other network. they kept piping it in and piping it in and trying to scare people before the election. i would say the only silver lining with that is they thought it was nonsense. that is why the mueller investigation, we have to constantly underpin that he is a republican, she coming with the rule of law and that it's justice they are trying to seek. the more they make it an issue the harder it is to bring the country together. >> yes. one thing i wanted to jump in

and say this is what you hear on fox news. there has been no collusion. no collusion. i think the basic point is none of us know what robert mueller ultimately knows. he is saving it to submit the justice department. this refrain that there has been proof of no collusion and they can say it is as long as he has not shown his cards. robert mueller will have the last and he could end up looking like piping lies to their viewers. >> and it's really interesting, when you watch this and listen to the president's tweets it's like they are reading all off the same sheet. they are being unjust and it's basically the fbi itself conducting on behalf of the democrats.

you listen to the words it's all of the exact same ones. >> and i'm glad you raised that point because it amplifies the question. i was going to ask, you know, the president in terms of these messages he is sending out and people they are hearing, they sent out a tweet, fake news, the enemy of the people. that night he did that. a few hours later cnn offices here in new york city were evacuated. i mean these are two and they have real world consequences. >> you know, we have seen this immerge from the far right. we have these extreme conspiracy theories. all it takes is, you know, one crazy person to act on it and either walk into a pizza parlor or send bombs to the mail. i think this is where the media

covers him as this grand talety show. it is reality. this is life and death. he uses this rhetoric from the pulpit of the white house. i think at the end of the day it will be republicans to tell the president to stop using this language if he will listen. he continues to do it. >> i want to be very clear here that i'm not just saying that the person who called in the bomb threat to cnn is a fox news viewer. the point is to say when you the president of the united states continually attacking the press and saying that the press is fake news the enemy of the people that it has real world consequences. last month we were dealing with pipe bombs being sent to the leaders within the democratic

party by someone who took those messages of the president dangerously to heart. jennifer, to gabrielle's point at what point are we going hear more republicans? congressional republicans who aren't retiring, who aren't leaving capitol hill but who are still going to be there stand up to the president, stand up for their party and stand up for the country when it's democratic institutions are under attack? >> well, i would have hoped this would have happened a long long time ago. i'm not terribly optimistic. i will say this though. there are a few republicans that are up in 2020. ernst being one. >> exactly. >> and it's those people i think who -- and cory gardener, it is those people who better start

putting distance between themselves and the present before they face the voters. if there's any hope i think it would be in those people. my greatest hope, and this is how desperate we all are, is mitt romney. >> wow. >> he can at least say something. he doesn't have to do anything. i would say something on the domestic terrorism. here is is whether democrats can make a difference. they need to hold hearings on domestic right wing terrorism. they have to make legislative proposals. he has denied the domestic fric terrorism. it is a threat to the country. we not only saw the pipe bombs but we saw someone motivated by the caravan to go into a temple in pittsburgh and kill innocent people. so i think it would do a great service to the country and maybe deter him a little bit if it

would prevent him as a serious policy issue and national security threat. >> you have controlled the halls of capitol hills, walked into all of the offices. you know the people up there in the capitol. how confident are you that these purple and blue state republicans will find -- will find the courage to stand on their own two feet and speak truth to power when necessary? >> i have near 100% confidence that they won't. isn't that the saddest on our times in saying that our greatest hope is mitt romney? there is logic to it. they can't survive without the trump aids, 90% of which is still with this guy. it is political suicide. you would think some would say country first particularly after this week and the bush funeral.

it has nn't happened so far. i think they will have to see a bigger blood letting. >> i will give you the last word. your faith in mitt romney, jennifer said that he has to say something. he doesn't have to do anything. isn't that with what we went through with senator flake who said lots of things. when it came time to vote he voted 90 something percent of the time. >> you have to allow yourself to vote more moderately. you're seeing changes in demographics. i think it is why he went is that he wants to be that person that stands up. he is trying to live in the shadow of his father. his father was a great republican that was able to bring people together. he is trying to say this is what

patriotism in america looks like. >> save us mitt romney. you're our only hope. >> wow. >> jennifer will join us again later in the show. next up, your moment. ns to the nightclub here. and if you get lost, just hit me on the old horn. man: tom's my best friend, but ever since he bought a new house... tom: it's a $10 cover? oh, okay. didn't see that on the website. he's been acting more and more like his dad. come on, guys! jump in! the water's fine! tom pritchard. how we doin'? hi, there. tom pritchard. can we get a round of jalapeño poppers for me and the boys, please? i've been saving a lot of money with progressive lately, so... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. the united states postal service your home and auto makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪

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the likely next speaker of the house is speak out against vot voter fraud in the 9th congressional district. once democrats take control of the house in a couple of weeks they say voting rights will be among the issues at dressed in the first bill of 2019. my next guest says it is the name of the game and she is not having it. joining me now for your moment of maxine, maxine waters. thank you very much for being here. >> you're certainly welcome. i'm delighted to be with you today. >> you have been tweeting up a storm. one tweet, voter suppression is the name of their game.

stole ballots in north carolina and changed the rules. is this what trump's make america glaet man that is all about? it is information already to deny harris. it is to redo election in north carolina. you strong feelings about this? >> absolutely. i have explained that in those tweets that i have done. you know, this is just the old poll tax of being revisited in new and different ways. this is an attempt by the trump party to literally deny access to the voting booth to african americans, people of color. this president is trying to point a finger at immigrants and

claim they are the ones who is undermining the election laws it is really being lead by republicans. it is being lead by those who believe that they can keep the votes of african americans from being counted by doing all of these things. it is despicable they would basically take the ballots, the absentee ballots from the hands of trusting people and then vote them in the way that they would them voted. and so americans misunderstand. this is not just about one state. this is about all of the voting rights that are being undermined across this country in so many different ways. we have to fight against it. we are taken back. we have to be on top of voting rights and making sure we are doing what is necessary to confront these kinds of things being perpetrated by the trump

party. >> isn't it kind of ironic we are talking about this. when he set up that voter fraud commission that everyone ran past it. it was looking for solutions to a problem that didn't exist and yet here we are talking about voter fraud committed not by democrats but willfully by republicans. >> absolutely. first of all you know you can't believe anything that this president says. you know that he will do anything. so when he tried to set up this commission that was going to catch democrats that other people who supposedly were committing voter fraud you know it was another lie and it wasn't true to begin with. it points out who is responsible. it is the trump party and it is this message that he keeps sending to the people who continue to support him, that

they should do anything in order to so call make america great again. >> and we went through an eventful friday where we got that relate todd to michael coh. the week before it was michael flynn. it is my first time talking to you since all of that went down. i would like to get your reaction to all of this and how your feelings about the president's reaction to all of this saying that all of this, he is vindicated. >> well, i hate to say it. it's like i'm going to say it, i told you so. remember i started out talking about this president even before the inauguration. i talked about him being a despicable character. i talked about him not being worthy of the united states of the america.

i said it's not about wanting to undermine our democracy. it was about lifting those sanctions. i believe that the agreement of manafort and putin sz caand waso everything they could do so that he down the president that was going to lift these sanctions so they could all make money. i continue to say they. you follow the money and you'll watch all of these thieves. >> let me have you have a listen to this. >> i don't know it will forever disappear in some dark hole of unprosecutable precedence. i think it will resurface in the congress. i think what the fatality is the

house will have little choice the way it was going. >> now, congresswoman, one thing you have been consistent about from almost minute one of this presidency is that president trump should be impeached. in a few weeks you will be in the majority. i don't think that you have changed your mind that the president should be impeached. my question to you have at what point do you think impeachment proceedings should begin? >> well, let me just say this. i do believe that the congress of the united states of america have not assumed their responsibility that's given to us by the constitution of the united states by way of impeachment. this president in my estimation has been everything possible to certainly be eligible for impeachment. i really do think that it should be started.

i think there have been a couple of attempts that certainly did not win a support because the republicans were in charge but i do believe impeachment should begin. i know a lot of people don't agree with me. some say it would be too disruptive. i have said over and over again we can walk and we can chew gum at the same time. we can be about the business of health care. we can be about setting the country on the right course to undo many of the things the administration has done to undermine the very people they are supposed to represent. so i think we can do it all. we cannot continue. the president is a criminal. the president worked with cohen, instructed him to go and pay

these women to be quiet, to shut them up. the president was simply comply sit in all of this, he is the one that initiated this with his attorney. this criminal must be brought up by the conditioning of the united states for impeachment. if we don't do it we will do it in our duty. t cohen has lied and they created a back channel doing these investigations. they have been caught lying and so i don't know what else it is that they need to do in order to get us to do what we should be doing, protecting our democracy. >> like i said at the start of this segment. she is not having it. thank you maxine waters. >> you're so welcome. thank you. the mueller investigation, more on that next.

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the walls seem to be kaifring in on donald trump. saturday night live knows

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are those impeachable

offenses? >> they will be. certainly they would be impeachable defenses because even though they were committed they were committed in the service of fraudulently obtaining the office. that would be an impeachable offense. it is a much broader conspiracy against the american people. >> you were just listening to the incoming chair of the house sounding the alarm about the latest court filings regarding cohen's payments. he says it would be an impeachable offense if it is proven trump elected the illegal payments. we have jennifer and michelle. joining the table is deon washington and coauthor of one nation after trump. thank you all very much for being here.

given what he just said let's take a listen to what senator king just said on meet the press. >> i don't think there's evidence yet available to the public where there would be more or less a consensus it was an appropriate path. my concern is that if impeachment is moved forward on the evidence that we have now at least a third of the country would think it is just political revenge and a cue against the president. the best way to solve a problem like this for me is elections. >> i will start with you. doesn't the senator make a point there? >> i agree with him actually. i think we have to be thinking of the long-term here. the long-term outcome we want is a decisive defeat for trumpism where majority of americans say this is a terrible mistake so we can set a new course for the

country. now, there may copme a point where the evidence is so overwhelming there is more obligation to impeach. i accept that. i think rushing to impeachment is unnecessary and not a good idea. this should be done very carefully remember, it is a political process. that's whole different set of rules here. you know, that being said, there are some people on capitol hill who are willfully ignoring the evidence as presented in the documents just released on friday about what in the world is going on. let's take a listen to what rand paul has to say.

zbli guess i don't quite understand it. i don't know what's illegal about trying to build a hotel in russia. i see no problem with someone trying to build a hotel somewhere. i haven't heard any evidence of that. i can't imagine how it would be criminal. >> i think there was a $50 million penthouse if i remember it correctly. it was going to be offered to putin. you know, i think this is shameful. the president has been implicated in a crime. if rand paul wants to say republicans are no longer in favor of holding the president to the same standard of law we hold ordinary citizens that is his right. i think the kind of willful ignorance, i'm not really seeing

what's going on, really it is beneath someone in the united states senate. i will say this however, i think they will be presented with a ra really hard decision. you do have a constitutional obligation. i agree that it would be politically unwise. you wouldn't be able to remove him. what do you do if you are caught in that position where there's overwhelming criminal wrong doing. democrats will have to listen to it. i think he has never been one toto be rushing towards impeachment. if proven we have not seen evidence of that offense.

>> one of the triggers we talked a lot about is the possibility of a pardon. it has been out there that the president could pardon paul manafort and could pardon roger stone here is what senator rubio had to say on cnn about the potential of a pardon for paul manafort. >> it would be a mistake. i would strongly council against it. i don't think that in my view the presidential pardon power was not created for these sorts of purpose. i think it would be a huge political mistake as well. >> michelle. >> at least one voice of sanity coming from the republican party this morning. you know, he is absolutely correct. if the president were to pardon manafort it will only lead to more questions that always start with why why why why why. never in this political history of the united states and presidential elections have we

heard so much about russia, russia, russia, russia and so many people lying overtly lying repeatedly and to pardon manafort at this time would only seem to point to more evidence that a crime was committed, that the president is trying to use the pardon power to we rat kate any sort of guilt. if he does it quite frankly, if they were to move to impeach the president i don't see how the republicans in the senate could avoid removing him from office. >> one of the things that keeps coming up is there's this department of justice rule or guidance is that you can't indict a sitting president. it leads to the question of what happens if he is no longer president either voted out of office in 2020 or 2024 what could happen then? he was on face the nation today and here is what he said of the

possibility of doj indicting the president ben when he leaves of. >> there is a very real prospect the justice department may indict him. that he may be the first president in quite some time to face the prospect of jail time. we have been discussing the issue of pardons that the president my offer from people. the bigger pardon question may come down to road as the next has to determine whether to pardon donald trump. >> i mean that is an incredible statement. >> yeah. >> well, first of all i wouldn't be surprised if donald trump pardon pardoned himself which he probably could do and get rid of the whole thing. i don't think doj ruling on this has been fully litigated. lawyers can help me on that. let assume that that holds. i think it does two things. it does increase pressure on

house democrats to impeach because is argument is well, is he going to be above the law i still think they should resist rushing to that conclusion, but secondly, yeah. the next president will face that choice. i have a feeling if that next president is a democrat he or she will be in no rush to pardon donald trump. >> can i add something? >> yeah. >> i want to add that donald trump might be able to pardon himself for federal crimes. there is a new york state looking into these allegations. he can't pardon himself for a state offense. we know congress is filled with many many lawyers. every lawyer has an obligation to act. if we see that an overt crime has been committed i don't see how any member who is a mb embe

of a state bar could ignore and not vote for impeachment of donald trump. >> jennifer, we have been watching for the last two years. congress filled with lawyers do nothing. >> yeah. >> republican congress. >> members of congress. >> yes. >> it is exactly right. it has never been litigated. i don't know that the trump justice department is going to test it. i also don't think trump can pardon himself. he risks being prosecuted after he leaves office. for that very reason i would predict that when trump leaves office he will resign the presidency ten minutes before mike pence leaves office allowing pence to pardon him if there's not a republican president to follow him. >> wow. >> we have that on tape. when you accept the pardon you have to accept a level of guilt. >> yes. >> my panel will be right back.

up next, who won the week. ♪ ♪ applebee's bigger bolder grill combos are back. now that's eatin good in the neighborhood.

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and now time to find out who won the week. michelle bernard, who won the week? >> i'm going to say sandra bland as well as her sisters. i have to look at my notes. the making of "say her name." as you remember, sandra bland was arrested three years ago for failure to significant knoll wh -- signal when changing lanes and three days later she was found dead in her cell after allegedly hanging herself with the liner of a trash can. and one thing that we learned in this documentary, there was no dna or fingerprints found on the trash can liner that she allegedly used. i think she wins the week

because the film brings light to the violence that black women face at the hands of police brutality and anti-black violence. so often we think onthink only men suffering at the hands of bad police officers that we sometimes run into. and for that reason, i believe that sandra bland and her filmmakers and her sisters won the week. >> jennifer. >> it is a hard act to follow, but i will choose robert, the acting u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york who filed the beautifully written document that gives a roadmap to the actions of individual one who is the president of the united states, and goes beyond that to explain why that crime is so serious, that it was an effort to subvert democracy itself, to subvert transparency. we owe him a great debt of gratitude and i suspect we have not seen the last of him. so for him and his assistant

u.s. attorneys in the southern district of new york, i'd say congratulations, you won the week. >> ej. >> well, i think mine is a brotherly or sisterly link to jennifer's because i think that it is robert mueller. the song that comes into my head thinking of mueller all the time is that old kid's song inch by inch, row by row. and he has been moving methodically and hmethodic ly systemically with the southern district, we know he has committed a felony or depending on your point of view is potential felony, he has created closer links to the trump campaign and russia, he has shown us trump was lying. and even though the white house is trying to say nothing to see here, our colleagues have a piece in the "post" today that republicans are getting the message, republicans in congress, and they are starting

to get very worried. robert mueller has their attention and the country's he attention. and i think that he won the week. >> okay. i hear what you're saying. and michelle, i mean you came very strong with your who won the week and i'm hard pressed to shay that you are not correct, but kind of you're not because the correct answer is the former housekeepers who spoke out to the "new york times" about what it was like to -- what it is like to work for donald trump as undocumented. the piece starts out talking to victorina, you see her there, she was there five years. she came in 2013. undocumented from guatemala. the courage that it takes to come from out of the shadows when you work for the president of the united states, to be photographed and talk about your

experiences takes an incredible amount of bravely i think. >> i agree with you, but i would have to say at least she's alive. >> well, yes. there is that indeed. and you know what, actually i'm glad that you brought up the film "say her name." as you pointed out in talking about this, sandra bland was pulled over for failure to signal. but i remember in reading the documentation and writing about this, one of the reasons she failed to signal is because she looked in the rearview mirror, saw that cop car was baring down on her and she was trying to as you are supposed to do, as you are taught in motor vehicle class, to move to the right, get out of the way as quickly as possible when you see the police and fire trucks. and she did that. and in the end three days later paid with her life. >> yes, absolutely horrific. i would love to know how the police officer eventually had

charges dropped against him. jonathan, you remember that horrible video and the way that he treated her, charges were later dropped from him. and i want to know how do you hang yourself with a liner and have no dna evidence. >> and that to me is the key thing. i did not know that. and i want to thank you all very much. coming up in the next hour, the author of the timely book "how to get rid of a president." but up next, more "a.m. joy."

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this is moving day with the best in-home wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today.

that is our show for today. thanks for watching. "a.m. joy" with joy reid will be back next saturday. but up next, alex witt has the latest. >> i have really missed joy certainly because she's a good trend, b friend, but if anyone is going to fill her very large shoes, that is you. good job. and good day it all of you. i'm alex witt. it is high noon here in the east. 9:00 a.m. out west. and here is what is happening. push to impeach? a call for action in the wake of the russia prone be filings. >> the president was at the center of a massive fraud. >> the key phrase is directed by individual one. >> this is prosecutorial abuse. >> show his cards soon. >> we hav