wanted. his name is forever tied to donald trump. >> no matter what happens. michael cohen will be part of american history. because of his association with the 45th president of the united states. >> and his words and deeds pass, present or future could change the course of an american presidency. hate is on the rise in america. it's emboldened. >> the war on whites is real. >> normalized. >> the government is nothing compared to the jewish menace. >> and destroying lives. >> there are people who will say once a nazi always a nazi. and you can't change who you are. >> but i know change is possible.

from the age of 14 to 22. i helped build america's first nazi skin head organization. i believe diversity was a code word for white genocide. the jews controlled the media. immigrants were raping our women. and i was going to save the world. recruiting vulnerable kids then transforming them into violent extremists. like me. but now instead of pulling people into hate. i'm guiding them out. >> that's a scary thing. >> i know how easy it is to get sucked into the movement. >> i hated people messing with me. before i was just gabe. now i'm the skin head. everyone respects me or fears me. >> it happened to me. i'm not willing to let it happen to anybody else.

first thing i'd like to say about the american flag. i don't salute it because two of the stars stand nor non-white states. alaska and hawaii. i do not salute that flag. the stand for the banner of the white race. >> with me today. 19 year-old. director of the illinois chapter of the hammer skin heads. >> we're fighting for a great cause. the white race. >> it's painful to admit. that's me. 22 years ago. today, i see the world very differently. >> joining us now. he's the cofounder of life after hate. >> hello this is christian. tell me what's going on. >> for a decade, i have made it my mission to help people disengage from hate groups. before they destroy their lives or the lives of others. >> does he talk about being violent or using weapons? there's a resistance to work with somebody who was a violent

white supremacist. i helped over 100 people disengage. >> and there are so many more people who need help. i get calls and e-mails from parents all the time. saying they with worried about their son or daughter. they might be violent. >> i used to keep up with my photo albums really well. >> that's gabe? >> yeah. >> she contacted me a year ago terrified she was losing her 21 year-old son to the same skin head crew i helped lead. the hammer skins. >> when he got the tattoos i thought his life was over. nothing good is ever going to come out of this. >> i remember when you called me. you were devastated.

that's your baby. >> yeah. my beautiful little baby boy. >> what do you think it was that led him to go down and search for the acceptance? >> i was having problems with drugs and alcohol. emotionally i wasn't there. i was there physically. not emotionally. i had gotten into an abusive relationship. i was supposed to stop seeing this guy and i didn't. that's how i lost custody. >> it took him a long time after his mom contacted me before he would talk to me. he finally reached out.

he told me had attended monthly white power rallies. provoked confrontations and dragged his mothers black boyfriends out of a car and beat him up in a parking lot. we have been working together eight months now. he's making progress. i'm still worried about him and need to check in. >> hey, what's up man? >> good to see you. >> how's it going? >> good. >> tell me what's going on. what's new. >> i haven't talked to you in a couple months. i have a girlfriend now. >> tell me. where'd you meet? >> at work. she's from puerto rico. >> wow. >> that's different. >> that's a little different for you. >> yeah. >> i'm happy to hear it.

in the past you never would have considered even being nice to somebody who was from puerto rico. >> right. >> here you are in love with this girl because you see her. not just her skin. >> i don't know that anybody grows up to aspire to be a hater. something happens in their life that turns them from a normal every day young person. into someone who wants to scorch the earth. first time i heard anybody use the n word. was my grandmother. i didn't think too much about it until i went to a black middle school. always getting messed with. and picked on. >> i looked at myself as garbage. really. that's how i saw myself. >> in my work, i call these potholes. the small tramas that shatter a person inside. and drive them towards any community that will accept them.

>> i hated people messing with me. that's me was really like when i first started to feel that resentment. and as i got older i looked at it as i don't have to take this anymore. you shave your head and put on boots, nobody will mess with you. before that, i was just gabe. nobody. now i'm a skin head. people respect me or fear me. >> there are currently 78 racist skin head groups in the united states. my old crew is the oldest and largest. and have a reputation for being extremely brutal. a kind of white power special forces unit. eager to engage in a race war. >> he was a hammer skin prospect for two years. channelling his frustrations into the hateful agenda. >> the difference between now and then i was trying to change the world to make myself happy in it.

instead of change myself to be happy in the world i already had. >> i'm happy for you. i'm proud of you. you made ton of progress. but i'm concerned. >> since we started working together, he has severed ties with the hammer skins. i found out he marched in the largest white power rally in a decade. august 11 and 12, 2017. 500 white supremacist descended on the charlottesville, virginia. calling themselves unite the white. they claim they were protesting the decision to remove a confederate monument.

more than 1,000 counter protestors met them in the street. police lost control. and a governor declared state of emergency. >> it's 2017. how can you hate somebody you don't know. >> a lot of people got hit. >> at 1:40 p.m. nazi sympathizer rammed his car into a crowd of peaceful protestors. when it was all over, 19 people were injured. and a 32 year-old woman named heather heyer was dead.

>> what were you thinking? you were making progress and you went to the rally. that ended up being this tragic event. >> i still hadn't fully separated myself i guess. from the ideology. there's a lot of things that i struggle with as far as my mind set. i'm in that nationalist mind set. way of thinking. >> for most of his young life, he's had this identity as a nazi skin head. it's hard to leave what he left. sometimes, if things go bad, it's easier to go back. and the last thing i want him to do is go back. that's a win. but it's not the only reason i switched.

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i'm glad you got out of the clan. you're the trash we want out of the movement. >> do you think -- >> in the 1980s and '90s i pushed white power propaganda. where ever i could. i wasn't born racist and wasn't raised one. my early memories were in chicago with family that loved me. my parents were italian immigrants. pursuing the american dream flt while they worked 14 hour days. i was on my own. the weird foreign kid. who spoke italian at home. and english at school. i was lonely and bullied by the all american kids who refused to welcome me. >> i felt abandoned, i felt worthless. like an outsider. i was angry. i spent a lot of time walking these alleys. one day at 14 years old when i was probably my angriest i was standing here and smoking a joint.

when a car came roaring down the alley and a man got out. and had a shaved head and boots and walked over to me. and smacked me in the head and pulled the joint from my mouth. and looked me in the eye and said that's what the communist and jews want you to do. to keep you docile. somebody who wanted to belong. somebody looking for a family. and could be easily molded into something he wanted. 14 years old i went from a normal kid. to somebody who was plotting to hurt other people based on the color of their skin or who they love. or the god they pray to. i became a mouthpiece for hate. the front man for two american white power bands. today, there's a much more

powerful tool for recruitment. the internet. >> the war on whites is real. >> there are countless voices of hate in the digital world. >> it's diversity that divided white people. >> we need to nuke africa. and cut off the aid there. >> liberating women is the worst disaster ever. >> welcome to the radical agenda. >> this is alt right shock jock. one of the most effective propaganda working today. >> racism is normal. the only reason you haven't seen it is because jews censor it. >> he isn't different from who i used to be. today we're on opposite sides of the war.

>> he tells people, well, if you stop hating then your life will improve. that's not what this is about. he was a gang member who didn't stay in his gang. >> i don't think he's even white. >> i don't give a damn if guys like him insult me. i'm worried about the thousands of people who are infected by their poison every day. >> there will be pain and suffering. as we take our place to rule the earth. >> people like gabe. >> one people, one nation. one leader. >> adolf. >> i have been working with gabe for eight months and thought we were making progress. but it's clear he still is holding onto demons.

>> what kind of looks did you get when you wore that shirt? >> not good ones. >> when i wore the shirt. it was to provoke people. >> were you embarrassed to wear it? >> when you question it more and more. you start to feel a sense of embarrassment when it comes to the symbol. >> that embarrassment is empathy. you were worried about other people. it wasn't your embarrassment. but what you were feeling was how it might affect others. as you were changing. you may not recognize that. >> i see a confederate flag. a lot of people in charlottesville were marching with the flag. a rally to save a monument. do you think that's what it was about? >> i believe it is part of it. they were trying to erase any symbol of white identity in america. white history. both sides think they were right. both sides had points.

valid points they were trying to make. >> somebody died because of the actions and the rally. it doesn't matter to me who has side they're on. innocent people shouldn't die. >> this might come across the wrong way. to certain people. i think if we were separated we wouldn't have these issues. throw everyone together and blend them together and say get along. obviously that's not working the people want want to be living together in harmony and unity, should be allowed to do that. the people who don't should be allowed to do their thing as well. >> what would you do if given the choice? >> i can't really say. that's something i have to think about. if i had to make a split second decision on it, i would go with the separatist. >> gabe can't imagine a world where different races coexist.

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what made me turn away from hate? it's the question i'm asked most often. the answer is complicated. and didn't happen all at once. by 1994, i was 21 years old. married with two children. and still a committed neo nazi skin head. one night as i beat up a black teenager outside a mcdonalds his eyes caught mine and it hit me, what the hell am i doing? i couldn't let go. my wife and kids left me when it was clear i chose a violent movement over them.

hatred wasn't giving my life meaning anymore. it was destroying it. before i hit rock bottom, i opened a records store to sell white power music. >> are you sick of that grunge crap? that's why i'm here. the chaos records. >> to make ends meet i had to offer other music. and that meant talking with customers who were black, jewish and gay. i began to realize i had more in common with the strangers than the skin heads i surrounded myself with. and that changed the course of my life. what happened to me was a form of immersion. and a critical tool in my work. i push people to have an open dialogue with the enemy. the people they think they hate.

gabe is just like i used to be. living in white power echo chamber. he marched in charlottesville convinced his history and identity were being erased. he had no idea those lies would lead to the death of an innocent 32 year-old woman. named heather. that her death would touch a nerve. not just in charlottesville, but around the world. my own story of transformation taught me the dialogue can lead to understanding and acceptance. the opposite of what the white supremacists are pushing. that's why i want to speak with

heather's mother. susan. who agreed to open her door to a man with my hateful past. >> good morning. >> i'll come out here. >> i want a hug. >> nice to meet you. >> i can't even imagine what's it's been like for you. >> i just looked at the salt and pepper shakers in the house. i don't have to worry about her hurting those now. come in. >> these are baby pictures of heather and pictures of the family. >> this is heather here. >> she's giggling with her brother. she was a happy kid. always had to question everything. when he got old enough.

>> she had a strong sense of right and wrong. she was always out talking to people. she was trying to make a difference. >> susan raised her in a single wide trailer in the hills outside charlottesville. it was a hard life. it instilled a passion for social justice. heather never planned on counter protesting. until she saw cell phone video of the racist chants at the torch rally. >> i saw actual video heather that day. talking to a young lady from the alt right asking her why are you here? what are you doing? and the girl kept saying no comment. i have to hope that somehow the

girl went home and thought what the hell am i doing here? and maybe she'll remember that heather talked to her. and have some soul searching from that. >> how did you find out about heather's death? >> her friend justin called me. and he just kept saying i think she got hit by that car. i kept saying what car. i don't know what you're talking about. he said the hospital they need to find the next of kin. i said oh -- i called my parents and said please pray. when we got to the hospital, two ladies grabbed me and walked me up. i walked to the room.

and the detective looked at me and said she was pronounced. i remember just putting my head down and sobbing so loud. for the first few weeks i kept thinking i raised her to have her go away like this? but the impact that her death has made on so many people i guess i could, i can bear it for that. maybe the world will be a better place because of it. >> what legacy do you want this to leave? >> i want us to help capture the kids who are vulnerable. who are needing friendship. let's preemptively prevent it in

the first place. let's learn to care for one another. >> i'm working with a really amazing young guy. his name is gabe. who is really heavily involved in the movement. he was at the rally here. this is a kid who wants to do good but doesn't know how because he was never set up with the tools to do that. i would really love it if you guys met. would you be open to that? >> i think so. if he's willing to meet me, i would like to talk to him. maybe gain some insight. >> i really appreciate that. i think what's possible is that we work hard to make sure no other mothers lose their sons or daughters. >> that's my goal. i don't want anybody else to be in this club. there shouldn't have to be mothers who lose their children because of hate.

>> susan's willingness to meet with gabe is generous and brave. now i have to convince him to return to charlottesville and confront the truth. of what happened here. i just got my cashback match,

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with the hours top stories. democrat who soon be in charge of judiciary committee says it will be a impeachable offense if the president directed hush money to women during the 2016 campaign. but not enough to start actual proceedings. >> trump should not comment on paris tax protests because he tweeted demonstrators were chanting we want trump. for now, back to breaking hate.

kill yourself. it is the right choice. the white power movement i walked away from considers me the ultimate traitor. >> i have had to look over my shoulder. it's not something i like to do. it's not something i like to put my family through. but i know that when i get the responses it's touching their nerve. i know that i'm getting to them. and that means that i am on the right track. i was willing to die for something a long time ago. that frankly was garbage. if somebody wants to hurt me now for doing the right thing. i'm okay with that. >> i do take the threats seriously. because white supremacist violence is on the rise. >> arraigned in district court today. 20 year-old james alex fields understood the charges against

him. second degree murder. malicious wounding and hit and run. police say fields used his car to intentionally mow down a crowd of antihate demonstrators on saturday. killing 32 year-old heather heyer. >> six months after the rally. alt right web sites claim he isn't a murder. he's a martyr. forced to flee a crowd of violent protestors. >> the nationalist community defended ourselves against thugs. >> outside the courthouse today. two self-proclaimed white nationalists began screaming that police the media and counter protestors were to blame for the violence. >> it's all part of a culture of victim hood. they use to justify their anger and actions. the 2017 unite the right rally was the latest example. >> white people have a right to stand up for themselves. southern people have a right. when you try and take down our statues.

>> the architect behind the chaos is himself a charlottesville native and a newcomer to white supremacist circles. >> i was the organizer of the rally. >> the hate that you hear around you. that is the antiwhite hate. that fuelled what happened yesterday. >> the unite the right rally catapulted his status among white nationalists. >> her name was heather! >> her blood is on your hands. ler her blood is on your hood. >> he now boasts more than 13,000 twitter followers. dangerous platform to celebrate the tragic out come of the rally.

he's riling people up making fun of a woman who was murdered. i believe that people need to be held accountable for what they do. i know i can't change jason kesler. i can expose him for what he is. >> you tube. i've promised you on twitter and gab to have a little debate today. i thought it would be interesting to talk to this guy. christian. you call yourself a former white power. you were in a skin head gang. >> why do you put up air quotes? >> i don't use the term white power. what i am and a lot of people are, are prowhite. we're not nazi skin heads. white people deserve to be represented like other groups. every other racial group and identity. whether it's gender or sexual orientation.

they have lobby groups. >> that's because they are searching for equality. they're not trying to wipe out white identity. they're trying to be recognized. >> but, i think these antiwhite activists they just hate everybody who is white. and accomplished something. they want to tear us down instead of building themselves up. >> do you hold yourself accountable for the violence? you were the organizer of the rally. >> the protestors put themselves in a dangerous and risky situation. they were defying the state of the emergency order. >> the alt right person ultimately drove his car into a group of people. >> that's true. he hasn't been found guilty. there is a lot of reasonable doubt in that. >> how do you justify marching alongside nazi flags? you claim you're not a neo nazi or white nationalist. >> it was one guy with a swastika flag.

>> who was the people chanting the jews will not replace us? >> i was not chanting that. one of the primary dominant themes is skepticism and criticism of jewish power. >> do you believe the holocaust happened? >> i don't know. i'm not a historian. >> you can sugar coat this all you want and claim a public face that has a smile on it. behind those closed doors i know what you are. i have spoken to -- >> you don't know. >> i do. >> i can see there are people -- >> we used to be able to spot a skin head or clans men a mile away. and knew they were dangerous. this movement might be dressed in pretty clothing. that looks like what doctors and lawyers and teachers look like. but they have an agenda. that is sinister. the real danger are people like jason.

who are able to hide who they truly are. >> they cling to their twisted world view and have no interest in empathy or self-reflection. for those who want to disengage, i can help. if they have the courage to confront their own hatred. >> i'm going to charlottesville in two weeks. would you consider going with me? >> for what purpose? >> i'm meeting heather heyers mom. and she's going through a lot of pain because of what happened to her daughter. would you consider going with me? >> i would consider it. i can't say yes or no. i will consider it. >> what are your reservations? >> what she would have to say would be revolved around trying to make me feel guilty. >> you haven't met her. you can't make that assumption.

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(vo) bounty, the quicker picker upper. how are you? >> six months after marching in the deadly unite the right rally i asked gabe to return to charlottesville. it's time for him to confront the painful truth about what really happened here. most of the people i work with have never had a meaningful interaction with the people they claim to hate. jews, african americans, or the counter protestors at the charlottesville rally. what saved me was interacting with the people i thought were my enemies.

>> it's when you're like out at like a rally. and you're both screaming at each other about ready to fight or something. i'm willing to talk to anybody willing to talk to me. >> i can't promise anything. but i'm willing to stick by your side. i promise you i won't leave. >> at my request, gabe is agreed to meet with susan. heather heyers mother. >> this is the young man i told you about. this is gabe. >> nice to meet you. >> this is susan.

heather's mother. sit down. >> have a seat. >> cold enough for you? >> yeah. pretty chilly out there. >> yeah. a little bit. >> gabe, what are you feeling right now? >> to be honest with you, a bit awkward. >> so do i. just because we both know that you were here this summer. >> what's it like being here now? what's the feeling of being back in charlottesville. >> just realizing the magnitude of what happened there. that got like national attention and i wasn't even expecting that, to be honest with you. >> how did you feel when you heard that somebody had been killed? >> i really didn't know how to feel, no sensitivity.

no offense to you. honestly at the time i really didn't care because it was from the other side. >> i understand. >> i think that's part of the problem. there is this image of this communist protester, rebel. >> oh, my gosh. so not her. heather came from a broken home. her dad had drug problems. he's clean now, but he was never clean while she was growing up. heather seemed to just take it all in, but i know it damaged her in ways. >> gabe, would you mind sharing your upbringing at all with susan? >> when i was around 7 years old, my mom kind of went off on a bender for a couple years drinking and drugging and dating less than desirable men. one of those less than desirable men tried to kill her on christmas eve while me and my brother were in the house. that was fun. >> i'm so sorry.

i know we shrug, but it's a lot of pain. it's just like you can't fix it, but yeah, i get it. >> well, i appreciate you listening to me because a lot of people that may have knew your daughter or share the same ideals she had would probably want to kill me. can i ask you something, ma'am? >> yes. >> it was pretty common sentiment revolving a rational nationalist movement that she didn't die from injuries from the car accident. she died from a heart attack. is that true? >> the medical examiner's report says blunt force trauma to the abdomen was the cause of death. so, yes, her heart did stop, but it stopped because she was hit by the car. >> not because of a heart attack? >> not because of a heart attack. you know, jason kessler was in the courtroom and he knows that

the medical examiner's report said blunt force trauma to the abdomen and he has not issued that information to anyone. >> in fact, he's done the opposite. he's helped spread the fake news. >> he's helped spread the heart attack theory. >> that's pretty [ bleep ]. >> that is pretty [ bleep ] sorry, we are on -- >> i think god understands. >> because you can't keep something going and base it off of lies and expect it to last. the thing that really didn't settle into my mind until later was how was going to this city that i have never even heard of before and provoking these people to violence, how is that going to really change anybody's mind about anything? it just makes everyone look bad. really, and, you know, people

got hurt from it. >> susan, i'm assuming nobody has ever reached out to you and said, i'm really sorry for what happened? >> nobody who was at the rally, but i don't hold him responsible. i hold the leaders responsible. because they deliberately stirred up the anger. he was used. i'm sorry, you were manipulated. >> i'm sorry you lost your daughter. >> thank you. i appreciate that. but i don't hold you accountable. you understand? so where do we go from here? how do we fix this? >> honestly, susan, i don't know how. >> i don't know either. i think we are all trying to figure it out. >> i think a good start is sitting down and talking about it. two people that normally would never do that. it's a start. susan's only daughter, heather,

was killed by a white supremacist just six months ago. >> can i help you up? >> do you remember now? >> yes, just like that. >> to witness her compassion for a misguided young man like gabe is remarkable. >> do you want a hug? if you are not comfortable, just say -- it's okay to say so. okay. i give long hugs. >> at first i was reluctant to meet with heather's mom. >> seems like you guys connected. >> yeah, we did. i'm glad she was able to see where i was coming from. >> this is a big step in gabe's journey. but it's not the last. -[ gasps ] a bigger room?! -how many of you use car insurance? -oh. -well, what if i showed you this?

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♪ before gabe ever contacted me he was so desperate to shed his past he used a spoon and light story try to burn the tattoos off his face. he couldn't do it then. he's ready now. >> starting with a clean canvas will be a huge thing for you and have a major impact. >> oh, yeah, for sure. >> people deserve a second chance and you're getting one, man. >> i know it. i'm pretty grateful. >> all right, gabe, you can put those on. >> three, two, one. there you go. was that bad? >> oh. >> everybody that i meet, i see as me 30 years ago. i know that they weren't born

that way. they learned to do this. >> oh, that does not tickle. >> one, two, three. there you go. >> if somebody were to look at gabe a year ago from a mile away they would have judged gabe as being a monster. another 15 seconds. three-quarters done. five, four -- you got it, come on. you're tough enough to get it put on, you got to be tough enough to get it taken off.

>> gabe changed the outside but that didn't really change the real gabe. >> there's probably going to be some people that i know that will think i'm a traitor or whatever. it's pretty refreshing to really say i don't give a [ bleep ]. >> there but. >> it takes a kind of twisted nerve to kind of join the hammer skin nation but it takes real courage to walk away from them. >> there's little stuff that happened that just kind of built that doubt more and more, you know, just grew that seed of disillusion. >> yeah. i think the people that stay are afraid. they're afraid to start over. >> yeah. i wanted to be me again, not this thuggish skinhead nazi guy. i didn't want to give that impegs to people anymore because that's not how i really felt

inside. >> hate always has consequences. it destroys everything in a person's life if we let it. >> they tried to kill my child to shut her up, well, guess what, you just magnified her. [ applause ] you need to find in your heart that small spark of accountability. what is there that i can do to make the world a better place? you take that extra step, that's how you're going to make my child's death worthwhile. i'd rather have my child but by golly if i give her up, we're going to make it count. [ applause ] >> 30 years ago i dedicated my life to spreading hate. i can't erase those years. but i'll never stop trying to

make amends for what i've done. just got another email. it says i need your help. you're my last hope. >> like it or not, i know this is what i'm meant to do. ♪ my mother called and said "michelle's dead." how is that possible? >> a young mother found brutally murdered. her little girl left to wander in her mother's blood. police had a suspect, and they say he had a motive. >> we had an intimate relationship. >> we ended up having sex. >> but could they prove he was the killer? >> it was a circumstantial case. >> except for that witness.