backpack on and she was like, don't run with that backpack on, you look like a grown baby. and he did. no one looks like an adult running with a backpack on. >> the full interview is up at msnbc.com/mavericks. that does it for me. catch me at 5:00 a.m. tomorrow orn "morning joe." "hardball" starts right now. >> more trouble for trump. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. there is breaking news from the "wall street journal" of a new criminal investigation involving the president. according to people familiar with the matters, federal prosecutors in manhattan are investigating whether president trump's inaugural committee misspent the record $107 million from donations.

prosecutors are also ex-- jam inner -- examining whether donors contributed to the investigation. this is part of the material seized in connection with the michael cohen probe. they staged a celebration of the democrat processes and did so in full compliance with all applicable laws. they added that we simply have no evidence the investigation exists. well meanwhile, amid this mounting legal problem, president trump is running around like henry viii trying to find a way out of the problems with each new revelation of the south district of new york the president is more deeply implicated in a scheme to break campaign finance laws. that is not just according to prosecutors. it is according to trump's former lawyer michael cohen who coordinated hush money payments to two women on trump's behalf. cohen has con fence -- confessed to the crime at trump's

direction but trump is claiming they only brought the charges to embarrass him, donald trump. here is trump on fox today. >> what he did was all unrelated to me except for the two campaign finance charges that are not criminal and shouldn't have been on there. they put that on to embarrass me. they put those two charges on to embarrass me. they are not criminal charges. what happened is either cohen or the prosecutors, in order to embarrass me, said, listen, i'm making this deal for reduced time and everything else, do me a favor and put these two charges on. >> trump also said he's not responsible for the illegal payoffs because it was his lawyer, not him, who carried out the crimes on his behalf. >> and michael cohen says that he lied in order to protect you. >> yeah. >> what is your response to that? >> let me tell you, i never directed him to do anything wrong. whatever he did, he did on his own. he's a lawyer. a lawyer who represents a client is supposed to do the right thing. that is why you pay them a lot

of money, et cetera, et cetera. he is a lawyer. he represents a client. i never directed him to do anything incorrect or wrong. >> as trump continues to deflect blame and shirk responsibility, there are new signs that the weight of his predicament has begun to sink in on him, despite telling reuters he -- he thinks people would revolt. quote, trump has told people close to him in recent days that he's alarmed by the prospect of being impeached. according to nbc sources, quote, trump has ranted about why no one around him is doing anything to stop any of it. and talked about the lack of support he believes he has in congress and within his own white house. i'm joined by democratic congressman eric swalwell and mikko oya is from third way. and david jowy, a former republican congressman who has

cut ties with his party and john barrett is a professor at saint j -- saint john's school of law. i want to start with congressman swalwell. this is a breaking news tonight. questions about what they did with the money. did they misspend over $100 million where people were paying to play. is this one of those pay to play schemes, where they pay the administration and the inaugural money to get something and they got something. >> best evidence today that donald trump presided over a criminal campaign, a criminal transition and continues to provide over a criminal presidency and this is someone who ran on promising to drain the swamp and the very hours that he was about to become president during all of these inaugural celebrations it looks like there was a pay to play scheme. now someone has already pled guilty connected to the republican party, a consultant pled guilty in august of this year for giving tickets to a ukrainian pro-russian oligarch.

for the 2016 inauguration. >> let me ask you the obvious question because you're in the intelligence, why was some prorussian ukrainian to get into a dance at an inaugural party. >> that never happened at any prior inauguration. but when donald trump came on the scene, he injected into the american bloodstream russian influence. we never saw so many russians around presidential candidates. >> mika, this is what i thought about from the beginning. two things, russian, russia, russians everywhere and number two the treatment by russians of us as some country you could buy. the president could be bought. you can buy him and get to his nephew and get to somebody in the family. they treated us like we're an old romanov family running our country. it smells. >> absolutely. and you see the trump administration hung a for sale sign out on the campaign from the beginning when he is doing deals on the moscow tower which cohen was lying about and pled

guilty to lying about, saying i want you to help me out with this deal in moscow and i'm still running for president and when he treats the trump foundation as his own personal checkbook, he wants to enrich his own pockets. this is about trump himself and that he is open for business. and he still is. >> well corruption is worldwide. we thought it wasn't here. throughout his fox news interview today, the president took every opportunity to deny anything wrong,ine when the questions were unrelated to campaign finance violations. let's listen. >> trump didn't violate finance -- michael cohen pled guilty to something -- >> it is not under campaign finance. number two, if it was, it is not even a violation. trump did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. the two campaign finances are not criminal. they are not criminal charges. i never directioned h-- i never directed him to do anything.

i never directed him to do anything incorrect or wrong. >> what is your reaction to getting the number. still below 50 but 46 % approval. >> i think it is amazing because i only get bad stories. it is nonsense. it is campaign contributions, it is totally legal. look at stories one after another. they are all legal. the great lawyers that do that stuff are saying, there is nothing illegal. >> david, let me ask you about this. i know you're from florida but he seems like an upset new york cab driver in bad traffic in july and it is hot out and miserable andez scat per ated and blowing his arms in the air blaming everybody except himself and he looks like he wants to get out of the situation or is he fighting to stay in it. what is he up to. >> there is a statement that fish flop around before they expire and we're seeing this president is flailing and reaching for oxygen because he knows this investigation is right on his doorstep. and what i think the takeaway from that fox news interview is,

the president clearly has been in close counsel with his attorneys. that is a relatively tight message saying i did not direct it even if it happened it was civil and not criminal and it is not a campaign finance violation. but the big picture here, chris, after this week, it is hard to foresee a scenario in which this president does not face impeachment proceedings. at least an impeachment investigation in 2019. we now have corroborating witnesses putting him in the room while a felony was being committed, a felony entered into judgment by a federal court. it is hard to see how a democratic congress could avoid having to approach an impeachment investigation on that matter, the cohen matter. >> on that moment, on that very point, professor, can the client blame his lawyer and se he did all of this, he set up this cover-up. he masqueraded these payments as something they are not, for mcdougal for a future articles, she's going to write hundreds of

articles when it was a cover-up for catch and kill. all of this was done meticulously to cover up payments to help his campaign to shut up this story. did he blame that on his lawyer. >> i think that is the point, chris. if a clients asks a lawyer, look, i have a project and i want to abide by the law, and what are the lines and how do i navigate this, that is one type of client/lawyer conversation. what i'll remind you of, from new york, is another client of lawyer/client relation. you remember the corleone family. >> the peace time -- >> the conversations with don veto were conversations but looking to break the law and doing what they needed to do and that is what an investigation is digging into. >> so he can't blame his lawyer? >> it is not an automatic get out of trouble free card to be

talking to a lawyer. a lawyer can be a crook and of course michael cohen is a crook. he pled guilty and he was sentenced yesterday. he's a serious crook. >> and this is a president, i human being who said my idea of a perfect attorney general is roy cohen. his new explanation for the illegal payments is the latest in a series of evolving denials that he and his spokesperson have issued over the last two years. in fact the first came four days before the 2016 election. speaking at the "national enquirer," that is the agreement with karen mcdougal, trump's spokesperson hope hicks told the "wall street journal," we have no knowledge of any of this. in april of this year, the president said that he didn't know about the payment to stormy daniels nor why it was made. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? >> no. >> then why did michael cohen

make that payment if it was -- >> you'll have to ask michael cohen. >> three weeks later, trump acknowledged that he did have a deal with daniels and that cohen was representing him in the deal. >> michael would represent me and represent me on some things. he represents me like with this crazy stormy daniels deal. he represented me. >> well then giuliani let it slip that they reimbursed cohen for stormy daniels. >> that was not campaign money. sorry i've giving you a fact that you don't know. it is not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> so they funneled it through the law firm. >> funneled through the law firm and the president repaid it. >> the next day giuliani suggested the payment had everything to do with suppressing a negative story -- catch this -- during the election. >> so you were -- you're saying that stephanie clifford made

these allegations, told donald trump's lawyer, look i'm -- >> and denied them and said it wasn't true. however, imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016 in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. >> that was mr. rogers trying to talk on sesame street there. a ridiculous conversation. but here you have giuliani stepping in it again saying it was his money and he was involved in the payments and he was right in the -- and the president said i don't know nothing. >> he lies because the truth absolutely kills him. but one other thing that the president said today, he said that michael cohen was just a low-level attorney who handled low-level matters which makes you wonder, were there bigger payoffs that other attorneys handled. were there bigger proj effec effects -- the projects with the russians. these were shady operators. i don't think the people care about the payoff but they care if he acted in a shadowy way and was that done with the foreign

policy. >> and i'll get into more in this in the next segment and i think it is a big new york finance and media story and all about the "national enquirer" and the inaugural and moving into the media center of the world which is new york. this story is growing bigger. >> that is right. >> and the "wall street journal" is proving that by being all over the story now. >> that is right. and the danger for trump in it moving into new york is that even though when we talk about potential pardons and his protection from prosecution, that only applies to federal crimes. but some of the things are going to be violations of new york state law and what we've seen is the new york attorney general has already said she's going to be all over him -- >> does that ambition come from the job, by the way. i'm not saying anything against anybody, but it does seem new york is developing a taste for this scandal big time. >> it is where all of the stuff happened. >> let me go to professor on this. what do you make of that? because i just think the volume of this story is growing. the fact that it has become a

finance story with the inaugural question. it has become a media story with "the national enquirer" owned politically by trump. the story gets bigger and bigger and it is not about russia only, almost a rico conversation, the congressman running a criminale criminalent -- a criminal enterprise. >> it involves buildings and campaigns and hush payments, all of that is cited here in new york and the southern district of new york, part of the justice department, not robert mueller, has its teeth in this. and isn't letting go. there is a lot of serious stuff here. so this is a big media and law enforcement story and soon a big congressional over sight story. >> is this a rico case? we have a leader -- a king pen of a whole operation and all of this going on involving the payments to the inaugural committee, apparently favors

sought and pay-to-play and paying off the women with the affairs if you call it that. all of the russian connection and run by somebody. not a hidden hand but some hand is calling the shots. why is it all happening under donald trump? could this be a rico charge? would somebody like mueller be bold enough to do that? >> well, i don't know about mueller. i think it is the u.s. attorney's office and the acting u.s. attorney in the southern direct who is the point man on this. it could be a rico case. it could be various types of conspiracy charges with different objects, criminal objects of the conspiracy. it could be many different types of substantive crimes, money laundering, bribery, campaign finance, the things that we're glimpsing already. >> professor, please come back. professor jo professor john barrel. so congressman and thank you all. t"the national enquirer"

paramed -- parent company has agreed to pay in coordination with the campaign. what does this do to the narrative and the interest to run in 2020. what can we expect from beto o'rourke or julianne castro to name a few. and as usual, trump spent air time on fox applauding himself on a wide range of topics such as his relationship with china, the gm plant closers and his search for a new chief of staff. finally, let me finish with the senate vote late today to condemn the saudi crown prince for his murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. a unanimous vote. he did it. we have to do something about it. this is "hardball," where the action is. (excited squeal, giggling/panting) gotcha! (man) ah! (girl) nooooooooooooo! (man) nooooo! (girl) nooooo... (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper!

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this is moving day with the best in-home wifi experience and millions of wifi hotspots to help you stay connected. and this is moving day with reliable service appointments in a two-hour window so you're up and running in no time. show me decorating shows. this is staying connected with xfinity to make moving... simple. easy. awesome. stay connected while you move with the best wifi experience and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. welcome back to "hardball." yesterday the president suffered a one-two punch from two old allies.

michael cohen his one time fixer and lawyer claim the president directed him to commit a felony. then came the more explosive allegation, ami, the company that publishes the "national enquirer" and is run by david pecker, a close friend of trump, signed a nonpros -- nonprosecution agreement to hide an alleged affair with playboy model karen mcdougal through the presidential came and throughout the campaign they acted as the de facto pr wing promoting trump and savaging hillary clinton. in fact yesterday's agreement confirmed media reports that cohen and trump and pecker met as far back as august of '15 to discuss the prospect of trump running for president and how ami would help protect him from negative stories. nbc news has confirmed that reports that trump was present for the discussions, placing him at the scene of the crime. as the "wall street journal" reports, mr. trump was involved in or briefed on nearly every step of the agreements.

he directed deals and phone calls and meetings with his self described fixer michael cohen and others. i'm joined by jim rootenberg and mimi rocca, former assistant u.s. district attorney and msnbc contributor. let me ask you this, jim, about the relationship with trump and ami. what is the deal all these years? >> well, the deal was in august of 2015, david pecker, michael cohen and mr. trump, we had heard this happened in trump tower, cooked up a deal that basically went like this. pecker said to trump, you're running for president and we're here to help. if anything erupts in terms of women and your past relationships, we, a., have our ears open and look out for you, and then buy the stories and kill them and now this is a stated as fact in prosecutor documents and prosecutors in new york are certain how this went down and then the next year

unfolds and we see "the national enquirer" do that. >> and they were bilking the young women because mcdougal was promised a hundred stories as a freelancer which would run in the "national enquirer." i didn't know they had that much space for editorial and she's an attractive woman and be on the cover three times. it is like quiz show where they promise that guy all of the stuff and the commentator on the show and none of that was intended to be delivered, right? it was all -- they pill -- be billked her out of the rights to a settlement. >> she saw it that way. and brought her lawsuit in april safi safing -- saying that. they were fitness columns and she's a fitness specialist and they said we'll run it under your byline and they have health and fitness magazine and once the deal was done in her view they disappear on her and it is clear to her exactly what this is. it was just about buttoning her up and not giving her the other

things she was seeking. >> well today president trump denied paying ami. here he is. >> i don't think they even paid to any money to that tabloid. i don't think we pead-- we made payment to that tabloid. i don't think we made a payment. >> well however, just a month ago the "wall street journal" reports that michael cohen assured mr. pecker, the ami boss, that trump would reimburse him for the payment for mcdougal and pecker calls off the reimbursement because lawyer warned him it would undermine any argument that mcdougal payment was med for editorial or business reasons rather than an in-kind contribution and he ordered cohen to get rid of the agreement and he did not. the "wall street journal" reports that federal agents found a copy when they raided cohen's office and residence. i can't believe. mimi, thank you for being here. so intertwined how all things lead to another and how they meander and they find material

to lead them to this and we're at ami door front. but it is so interesting, the president denying he made the payment shows he was in on the fact that shows they told him not to make the payment because it would incriminate himself. and you get caught in your own stories. >> that is right, chris. and this is typical of people who frankly have committed crimes. they can't keep the lies straight and trump -- it really depends which news appearance he's on and which day it is. one day it is i relied on -- or one hour it is i relied on the advice of michael cohen and then the next hour is michael cohen wasn't really a lawyer, he's more of a spokesperson. he's blowing up every possible defense. what is important is to keep an eye on what the government -- what the prosecutors have. and they already have built a really good case that implicates trump and likely whoever executive two is for the trump organization who was named in the cohen information.

and they are sort of already chipping away at possible defenses if not knocking them out altogether for example by having ami and michael cohen saying this is for the purpose of influencing the campaign which i think we coffin ferred any way. they can prove that now in court. and so it takes away that defense. >> jim, it is great to have you on. we haven't had you on for a while and so i'm going to exploit you now because it seems the big picture -- i watch the power of new york. it helps hillary and the mets and yankees and everybody from new york gets more coverage than they deserve, even the knicks and the fact it has metaphor fis into the media and the inaugural and the "national enquirer" which people do cowboy and re--e to buy and read and they read it and a bill rogle in -- a big

role. this story is growing and not dying. legs of the story are longer and stronger than ever. the trump story. >> yeah, and the funny thing is, where did donald trump, the persona of donald trump start? it starts in the new york city tabloids. so basically "the national enquirer" is those tabloids but it strayed from the roots. it is in every single supermarket across this country and donald trump couldn't have had a better ally, not just ally, but an adjunct of his campaign and they admit so a tabloid personality becomes a tabloid president with the help of america's leading tabloid. >> and following up another string here, mimi, ""access hollywood"" when he said i would get away with any misbehavior sh the grossef thi -- the grossests leads to the payments of two women. people say, the front-runner of the movie with gary hart, not talking about people's sex lives

but in this case it directly comes out of his behavior with women that gotten him into the lies and cover-ups and page -- and payments. you can't separate his behavior with women from his financial and political and constitutional position right now. he's in trouble for impeachment right now because of all of that behavior. it is all connected. your thoughts. >> that is a great point, chris. maybe he could get away with whatever he's been doing and whatever he wants with women and people sort of don't care. but if you commit crimes to cover that up, and this is not -- i'm so angry when i hear the sort of shoulder shrugging and minimizing of this criminal behavior. this is not a -- not a small campaign finance violation which is the word that people keep using. this is a felony and it was a scheme and we know it started in 2015. and so it was well calculated

and planned it was designed to keep this information from the american voting public. he didn't care about -- he said publicly, as you point out, i can get away with anything. so what does he care if anybody finds out about him having affairs. he's not embarrassed about that. and it is not a crime to have an affair. but it is a crime when you have develop a scheme with a company, with your fixer, and with -- use your own corporation, the trump corporation and you open shell accounts and you devise what sounds more like a fraud scheme than a campaign -- the way we think of campaign finance violations. that is really what this is. and that is why it is not even close to the line that they're pursuing. and the more that you have investigators trained and good investigators from the southern district of new york, career prosecutors and new york fbi office looking into trump, the more they're going to find. i'm confident of that. >> and it is a new york story bigger than ever. thank you jim rootenberg and

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you don't make it personal. i don't use the president's name very often. so you challenge this president. you make that contrast. his phony populism that calls

names and degrades people and pushes people down versus the real populist of supporting workers. it is simple. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was ohio senator sherrod brown on how to take on and beat president trump in 2020. in today's washington post columnist george f. will writes he could be the challenger. writing if democrats are looking for a lefty who can win in 2020, they could look at brown as seriously as he's looking at running. well brown is one of the -- in the crowded field of democrats said to be considering running. in fact several have acknowledged as much right here on "hardball" in just the last few weeks saying it now. let's watch some. >> i'm considering it. there is a number of people considering it. >> what would stop you? >> look, it is a daunting task to make that decision. >> you're probably going to run. you don't have to tell me. i think you'll run and i think beto will -- >> if i decide to do it, i'll go on -- >> are you running? >> i'm seriously considering it.

>> what would stop you? >> i'm concerned about the direction of our country. >> what would stop you from running? >> i don't know. i'm thinking very carefully. >> nobody is ready for that question. this week one of those voices, former hud secretary julio castro is exploring, that is the first step, a 2020 bid. he'll make a final decision in mid-january. i'm joined by maxwell from sirius xm. so i'll just suggest something. and i think the battle in my mind is between the progressives, people on the left, who say this is our time just like 1932 was the time for franklin roosevelt and 1980 was the time for ronald reagan on the right. every once in a while, every 50 years or so there is an opportunity for somebody with real ideology to win an election they couldn't win so go for it. the other point of view is trump is smart and he knows how to win places like pennsylvania and

ohio. he certainly knows how to -- wisconsin and michigan. sow -- so you better run the strongest person to bring the working class white voters to the democratic party so be careful. so george, which side are you on? should they be careful or go for it and say this is the chance we'll get a real progressive in there and knock their daylights out. >> careful. i'm voting for careful. democrats have to decide two things. how pennet ant are they about the role they played in 2016 by nominating the only person on the planet he could beat and then decide how serious they are about winning. are they serious enough to compromise their identity politics? to even consider a candidate with their own chromosomes, a white male. >> and zerlina, your thoughts on that. if you want to push somebody, go for it. >> i'm not pushing anybody in particular. i think that -- >> i hear you like mitch? >> i absolutely like mitch.

>> i like him too. >> he's my sleer-- my sleeper. but for the identity politics, i have to push back slightly. when we talk about identity politics, oftentimes the people critiquing leaning into identity politics happen to be straight white men. if you think about the people who criticize identity politics, generally they don't look like me. and i think that if you insert the phrase civil rights in where you were talking about identity politics, it makes a lot more sense. you are talking about making sure that you are implementing policies and pushing for pl -- policy that protect and help the most marginalized and they make up the democratic coalition so in 2020 i think we need someone who is inspiring but also who is auj entdic -- authentic and speak to the constituents like african-american women for example. >> let me help -- and in another way of saying that, in 2012 and

2008 they had barack obama who aroused the base, african-american and minority. everybody felt shut out by history and they said here is our chance and they got a lot of the middle of the road people and republicans joined in that. in 2016 the minorities dent vote. they felt hillary didn't inspire them and the democratic ticket didn't seem to talk to them and they didn't vote. >> donald trump will arouse the democratic base. and remember we're talking about ohio. >> well he didn't in 2016. >> but he wasn't -- >> he didn't -- trump won when he won. it didn't arouse minorities to vote for him. >> this time around surely he will. >> why not? >> we're talking about ohio, in 45 of 54 presidential elections, ohio has voted with the winner. no republican has ever won the presidency without carrying ohio. this is a man who can campaign, got the look, the manner, the record. >> i agree. >> he could campaign in wisconsin and michigan.

>> is that a fair target zone for the democrats, which you speak as a partisan, which you are, you better win back pennsylvania and ohio and maybe pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan, those states were won by sherrod brown and bobby kasie, democrats know how to talk to those voters. do they need to win the states back to get back in the presidency? >> absolutely, to get to 270. but i think 2018 taught us a lesson and that is that you have to challenge people everywhere. you have to compete everywhere. you don't just go after certain places like those battleground states that we like to talk about so much. you really have to go after every vote and i think that a campaign -- >> what did it do for secretary clinton to go after arizona and north carolina if she's going to lose pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan. that was a bad strategy on the part of her campaign. maybe not her, but her numbers people said we can win a sweep. we don't need to focus on pennsylvania, we have to get to arizona. we have to get to north

carolina. put tim kaine on the ticket. you think that was a smart move? i'm just asking. >> that is based on an analytics campaign and not a passion driven campaign and one that speaks to the constituent in ways they feel they are connected to and that is why mish landrieu the former mayor of new orleans is my sleeper because he is somebody who has the southern drawl and can speak to white working class voters but he also feels just as comfortable in a black church so you need somebody who can speak across constituency and be authentic and that is why beto is rising to the top because he is speaking in a way that doesn't sound like a politician and i think democrats need to look at some of the things he's saying and perhaps adopt some of that methodology. i think that it is really going to be a campaign about who resonates with the base and who excites the base and can speak across constituency to a broad coalition of people that make up the democratic party and we just

saw this in 2018, chris. the democrat coalition is diverse and we elected a diverse array of candidates and i would like to see that in 2020. >> do you think it will be a close one in 2020? looking at it now. tough for the democrats. >> not if they nominate someone who doesn't drive people away. and if they nominate someone who can talk across these constituency. >> any chance you'll vote for the democrat? >> yes. absolutely. >> news, george will could vote democrat in 2020. >> it has never happened before. >> zerlina, you are making an impact here. talk to this guy and have a lunch. >> absolutely. >> george f. will, a possible recruit for democrats in 2020 and zellina maxwell. and there was a consistent theme from the fox interview and this president is proud of his own accomplishments. real or imagined. i love the wall that he thinks is there. you're watching "hardball." at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected

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welcome back to "hardball." during his fox interview, president trump seemed to be boasting about everything he touches. here is trump on his meeting with chinese president xi. >> so we had a tremendous meeting, it lasted for four hours. it was in argentina during the g-20. i met with president xi at the end and we had a fantastic meeting. it was just a great meeting. >> what makes it fantastic? >> the relationship that i have -- >> what was the conversation like. >> here he is on the layoffs announced by general motors. >> and the nation got to see you as gm said, we're going to wipe away 15% of the work force right before christmas. and you said, i want to talk to -- >> i don't like what they did. >> the ceo. >> she was nasty and it doesn't matter because ohio is under my leadership from a national standpoint. ohio will replace jobs like in two minutes. >> well the president also boasted about his support among women. >> i have tremendous women

support but if you remember the last election, i was -- i was worried i wouldn't get one woman in the whole united states to -- when i run and i got tremendous -- hillary wish she had my numbers, okay. hillary got trounced with women. >> actually women voted for hillary. and finally, here is trump on the search for the next chief of staff. >> well, i want somebody that is strong but somebody that thinks like i do. it is my vision. it is my vision after all. at the same time i'm open to ideas. we've had an incredible run. nobody has done what i've done and what this administration has done in the first two years. >> more or less bring in tonight's round table. iesh rasco and from "the new york times," dana millbeck and all three of you start report. first of all, white women, to be blunt, voted for women. women as a gender voted for hillary clinton. >> yes. >> i hate to steal your fire. but that is so obviously true. and everybody knows it. trump thinks the other way. let's talk about this chief of

staff thing. he said ten people are looking for the job. everybody wants it. >> he said everyone wants it but yet he hasn't filled it and we keep hearing from people who don't want to have the job. i mean, look -- >> meadows said no. >> meadows said no. i'm sure he'll come up with someone -- the reports now it might be jared kushner. >> your toying with me. >> those are reports. and now -- >> but with the crown prince. >> they are about to have a project on criminal justice reform so maybe he'll use to that say he wants to be chief of staff. then he doesn't have to worry about being fired. he has ivanka to back him up. >> wild list. i look at these guys like bafd bossie and street guy and then inside like wayne berman and he doesn't know what he wants. >> it is a toxic position. anyone going into it will have to immediately deal with the

mueller investigation, house democrats controlling the house and subpoenaing all manner of things related to the administration. it doesn't bode well for your future trajectory. >> why do we assume it is a male. i do. i don't think you have your man hood in trust, as somebody said. >> i don't assume it is anybody. piers morgan has thrown his hat into the ring. >> your eyes widen and you get sarcastic. >> it is true. and a lot of trump's supporters have been saying that michael flynn should be the guy but he would have to be pardoned first. the truth is, the reason this is a difficult job to fill is because the president has a chief of staff and his name is donald trump. he's also the white house counsel and the spokesperson and everything else. so whoever is going to be in that job will be inn ineffectua and could be publicly humiliated and could have to hire a lawyer and if you are qualified to do the job, why on earth would you want to do it. >> the old joke, i used this as

an ice breaker by henry viii, he would say to his wives, i won't keep you long. that is what he'll say to the new chief of staff. the kid -- nake ayers said -- he said the president of the united states, i'll take your little job but i'm only staying three months. >> well he probably -- well i'm not sure, but trump normally started out saying he loves the guy and so smart and great and then he turns on them. he was saying the same thing about kelly. he was the greatest ever until he wasn't and then just kind of unceremoniously sewn the door. and that is the issue. >> rex tillerson was one the great businessmen on the face. earth. >> dumb as a rock. >> dumb as a rock. that happened pretty fast. >> and i think he called me dumb as a rock. >> it sort of reflects the other stuff that he said during the interview where he is -- he is talking about how ohio could replace the gm jobs. everything that he touches and

that he sees as part of his effort is great. >> you want him selling a used car to somebody else but don't want to buy the car. meanwhile nancy pelosi is getting rave reviews over the deal she struck with maverick democrats supporting term limits and the deal was made inn -- in exchange for her to be speaker again. "the new york times" described it as the ultimate power move of a master tact is. and seven of the democrats said they will back her bid. all be guaranteeing she will be the speaker again and one of the democrats, congressman tim ryan of ohio was asked today if his group was simply outmaneuvered. >> i think her agreeing to making this rets row active herself, i think signifies that we got some serious gains and i think institutionalizing and getting her support for term limt -- limits is a big deal and

so it is not certainly everything that we wanted, but it is a lot and i think we can -- we could look each other in the eye and say we brought the kind of change that the american people voted for. >> does anybody think it was a compromise for shrewd move? >> i think it was a shrewd move. she's 78, so giving herself -- >> she's not going to run. >> she's not going to serve until she's 86. so it's not really costing her anything. >> so why did they accept it? >> but it does affect other people coming up behind her. >> well, steny and jim clyburn will have to go with her as part of the deal she struck. >> i don't think that she wanted to do this. i wrote a column suggesting this a little over a month ago and her staff reacted furiously saying you're dead to me. saying she'd make herself a lame duck. she'd be completely ineffective. >> what do you mean you're dead to me? >> who said that to you? >> one of pelosi staffers. they really did not like this idea. so i think she did it because she had to.

but that said, it is a master stroke. she's going to retain all the power she had. she just had probably the best week of her political career. >> didn't most people think she'd probably serve two more years of her own volition. >> well, she's not going to be serving when she's 103. >> things will look a whole lot different after 2020, certainly if democrats take pack the white house after having nancy pelosi running the house, they're going to be in a tough spot. >> it is my belief she will leave when she figures out who will succeed her. she will fix the succession before he leaves. this is machiavelli talking here. "hardball" back in a minute. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance,

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let me finish tonight with today's unanimous senate vote to condemn the saudi crown prince for the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. this is simple. this is about right and wrong. it's about our country standing for something about being something we long thought of ourselves, the good guys. that's right, the good guys. no, we are not perfect. but there comes a time when you either say who you are with pride or join the world's worst in their immoral swill. jamal khashoggi wrote for "the washington post." he wrote in english so that you and i would read him. he wrote with hope that what he said and wrote would be understood and that we would feel the same moral purpose. for this, he was killed with deliberate malice. killed so that everyone like him, people like us, would know never to do the same thing. killed with his fiancee waiting outside the door. killed with such barberous collusion that we wouldn't know that the state of saudi arabia had made the call. for this there needs to be a

response, an enduring commanding message from our society to saudi arabia. with the killing and butchering of american journalists, your crown prince made a statement to the world. this is ours. this crime against truth will not stand. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> trump did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. >> the president scrambles to control the narrative -- >> nobody except for me would be looked at like this. nobody. >> as news that implicates him keeps on breaking. >> i don't think they even paid any money to that tabloid. >> tonight new reporting that donald trump was in the room when his lawyer and the "national enquirer" discussed illegal hush money payment. >> they put that on to embarrass me. they put those two charges on to embarrass me. >> plus, breaking news of a brand new criminal investigation into the trump inauguration. >> we had a massive crowd of