it is how it looks. they want to walk the press into that trap. cover it exactly thousand is. >> thank you all, that does it for our hour. mtp daily is starting right now. >> if it is monday, the russian conspiracy is so much worse than we knew. good evening, the russian

conspiracy to get donald trump elected is bigger than we thought. tonight they are recasting how we look at a number of explosive questions about everything from mr. trump's election victory to his escalating attacks on the investigation. experts and researchers at oxford and a cyber security form called new knowledge combed through hundreds of millions of social media posts that were created by russian conspirators at the kremlin operated internet research campaign. there was more than 260 billion engagements. the number of people that viewed it is likely higher than the 126 million that facebook said was exposed through their networks

alone. and it wasn't just designed to help get mr. trump elected. it looks as if it was also intended to help keep trump's presidency afloat. their activity didn't slow down after election night either, it spend up. the ira's activity more than tripled. the ira's goals were to reinforce tribalism. to exploit societal fractures. blur the lines between reality and fiction. and investigation and the investigation environment. in government, in each other, and in democracy itself.

does any of that sound familiar. after they got traugcaught, rus seemed to do what mr. trump did. they amplified the narrative that the whole investigation was negative and the emerging russia stories were a weird conspiracy pushed by liberal cry babies. does any of that sound familiar? >> folks along with all of the evidence that we have these reports drive home the question of whether or not russia found an asset in mr. trump or perhaps cultivated one. nbc intelligence ken delanian. evelyn farcus, and frank

figlusy. he is now an msnbc national security analyst as well. ken, the level of specificity here with this entire conspiracy. targeted specific voting blocks, not just democrats and republicans but ethnic groups and minorities, it was widespread remarkable and also disturbing. this is a pole quote from the knowledge report going so far as to create help hot lines for people struggling with sexual behavior. creating an opportunity to blackmail or ma anybody late -- why that level of specificity

and what are they trying to do with an ad as weird as that. >> the tex tend to which and they have sought to interact with human beings. and they want people to offer compromising information so they could be blackmailed down the road which is a time honored intelligence agency technique. there was job postings. all kinds of bizarre ways in wish these social media groups, they sought with interacting with and the other thing, katie, is we have a statement just out from google which is the last of the social media companies to

response. there is no way to target by race in response to a particular target. it is true that you can't prevent other people from seeing the videos, but there is ten pages offering some 500 different videos, and the message sent to them is you can't trust hillary clinton. this election doesn't matter to you. don't even bother to vote. we do know that. >> they are trying to entrap people. they were trying to call into a

hotline or maybe respond to an ad, and maybe try to influence them later. have you seen anything like that? is that the way you took it as well. >> katie, lest anyone think something else, this report corroborates we're in full blown information warfare. it is always in the interest of the services, we are allowed to do it on a scale that we never before thought possible. even for a 25 year veteran like myself. i was taken aback by how deep and wide this effort was. a minimum budget of $25 million and hundreds of millions of americans acting like this. >> but to try and manipulate, not just -- try so specifically to manipulate individual

americans, we have seen the memes, we have seen them trying to influence people in a way that we think, but to get them to call into a hotline to try to use that information against them later, i have never seen anything like that. we are seeing the wholesale vacuuming up. and we know there is attribution, the finger is being pointed at china. so the concept of wholesale vacuuming of future use, intelligence value, that is out there but we have never before seen it at this level utilizing social media. getting you hooked, getting you to engage. we saw black voter suppression in this report. we saw attempts to ensnare people and compromise them, and look very interesting, this started back in 2013, right? this goes beyond just trying to

help candidate trump in is russia trying to under mine our society any way they can. we need to understand that and somethings that to be don't about it. next time it could be a democrat candidate they're supporting, everyone loses when an intelligence service is prevadipreva prevading our homes and laptops. >> a couple things jump out here. first it is that lawmakers on capitol hill are pretty unsettled. they feel like they only scratched the surface. it is not just football, it was papal, and reddit. they were selling t-shirts as a way to fund their operations.

>> they fear they don't have everything just yett. and they fear the companies have not learned the lesson, and they have to stop russia and other malefactors from friespreading disinformation only. he didn't think it really appreciated the threat and has done nearly enough to stop it. and instagram, we learned more as a result today. previously facebook talked about instagram being a spott, but it is more than we realize. we're talking 187 million likes. there is a fear they remain a trouble spot and in 2018 number one elections to come.

>> it was unlimited, and in some cases unhelpful how did that work? >> a lot of these companies have been faulted for a long time now for not being sufficiently forth coming, mark zuckerberg said he didn't think that facebook played a role in the outcome of the election, so their response has evolved accordingly. the researchers say they didn't do a good enough analysis. they felt they didn't have enough on instagram either for how it resonates. >> we said this at the top and we will say it again, the way they tried to divide the country mirrored the language that trump uses and what really sticks out is not that they did it in the

2016 election, but it spiked. the effort spiked after the 2016 election and continued to mirror more closely the same rhetoric that trump was using to under mine, for example, the mueller investigation. >> and it is continuing to this day, so on all kinds of topics, but even syria, you see the russian bots and the social media controlled by the bots erupting and making the same points that the russian government would make. and trying to keep us from doing anything more there. what it goes back to, i think, this point was made earlier. they decided that america was their adversardversary. they didn't openly declare it.

it was like a war that we didn't want and starting in 2010, we saw with the nra, they were targeting us and then of course through the social media. it lays out very clearly at least from 2013 on. it took an up tick, but the weird thing is it went up even higher in 2017 and to this day it has not stopped. >> are we doing enough? they put sanctions on russia. nobody has done more to bush back against russia than i have, nobody is harder on russia than i cam. >> if the answer is directed to me, i would say that more is clearly not enough. and the price is not high

enough, these reports and they are viber forensic channel nations. we need to throw it back, because our allies are being targeted by the same stuff. the russians were acted in increasing the turmoil in france. legitimate grievances, but they were in there making the problem bigger and worse than it needed to be. >> what is your recommendation for what could be done? >> stronger sanctions against the russians. there are bills pending on the hill for this. i expect the new congress to bring those bills on to the floor and pass them quickly. i think we also need to go back to the international forum. the russians need to be shamed, held accountable opinion the

world needs to see what they're doing and know this is not acceptable. >> just being knowledgeable about this. you know is happening, does that mean you're immune from it. if i look on my feed right now and see five, ten, or 100 people telling me i'm an idiot for covering this store rain it's all a big hoax, am i immune from that? >> there is no inoculation. if you know the flu is out there and you don't get a shot, you can wash your hands but you'll still get the flu. there is no easy fix on this. the only reason we're really on to this is because of this president and the special

council investigation. we have seen two dozen russians. so my question is what other country is out there is china doing this? and we don't even realize it because it has not come across our radar screen. last week i was being targeted on twitter by russian bots i know that from professionals that tell me. the comments you say are a argument. they're not sitting well, but being knowledged, armed with it, it is only half of the battle. we need the platforms to step up, we need government oversight, and a over sight, i predict that is the next wave in this. you will have the private sector step up and start entering into this. >> i have so many more questions but we're running out of time. ahead, the growing toll on the trump administration as the

trump investigation looms large. we will break that down and more tonight with tonight's panel. and just like you, the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. [laughter] whoo. [crash] and your cut-rate insurance might not pay for this. so get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. mayhem is everywhere. so get an allstate agent. are you in good hands? (music throughout)

so what impact does it have when the president calls michael cohen a rat. someone who is cop raoperating how his office was raided. >> this is the president of the united states calling a witness, who cooperated with his own justice department a rat. say that to yourself and remind yourself of where we ended up. this is not republicans and democrats, it is what does it mean to be an american.

what do we care above our policy disputes. there is a set of values for the glue of this country and they're under attack for things like that. >> president trump has been quite out spoken with folks. you just heard james comey react, but they say that americans are skeptical that donald trump is telling the truth. 62% say that he has not been honest and truthful. and that negativity may be spilling over to the entire trump administration. 50% say the mueller probe raised more doubts about the trump presidency at large. let's bring in tonight's panel. susan, republican strategy and nbn political analyst, and we have a trifecta today,

everybody. i have not seen comey that angry before. usually he is measured and calm. >> let's think about that word, rat, where does it woman from. you dirty rat. it is when a bad guy, you know, is mad at another bad guy for cooperating with the authorities. it comes out of gangster movies. this is the way that gangsters talk. we have a president of the united states talking that way about the efforts of his own government. even if it is not legally obstruction of justice, it is spiritually obstruction of justice. if anyone that cooperates is a rat -- >> it is also what a gangster calls a guy that tells the truth. don't tell them the thing that is happening. he ratted me out, it means you told the truth on me and you got me in trouble. donald trump has been using this

and it worked to some extent to for those that support him. it seems like we might be at a breaking point with that. we're also seeing some republicans reluctantly say i'm concerned that the president may have committed a crime. there seems to be very slight but very slight still, movement. >> because there is a bunch of republicans starting to think this guy is probably guilty of election fraud. in private circles they say this is de facto. it is just to assume that yeah, before that, and before the michael cohen indictment, and now they have proof, they went against the president on saudi

arabia and libya. when you get elected and you come on the scene so fast and hot, you didn't earn it, you just showed up and you got it for whatever reasons. it didn't mean that you can't disappear just as quickly, katie. they have not been loit to him for decades, it has been for two years. >> are they going to turn? >> absolutely. >> hopefully they would not -- what i like to think is they're going back to normal si. >> that is his language, not mine. >> there is also trump enablers. there is a really bad place to be in a general election. so when they're looking to the next election, they don't want to have that. when they flip they will probably go all at once the way republicans did in the summer of

1974 on nixon and water gate. they were for nixon until that summer for two years the way that republicans have for republicans. >> politicians mostly follow public opinion and rarely lead it. we're seeing public it is an exemplary character in new york city, but she certainly, and i mean -- that is what i'm saying. >> miexle flin is a rat, and paul ford, and rick gates, and pretty soon even your most loyal sporters say maybe you're the

rat. >> and you face the incoming house with these agencies and showing the oversight that is necessary gauze they're talking about what is going on or not going on. >> and no one investigation is critically important. i think of gulliver by the little putins in 100 little knots. >> and the investigation is bringing his daughter into it now. because the inauguration e-mail to ivanka saying i think you're over charging, and there was billions and billions raised for the foundation. there is the trump organization, robert mueller and the sdny and there is the trump charitable foundation being looked at by the new york ag.

that doesn't even scout his presidency. everything he touched is being investigated. >> she in a room with no doors. normally she sue, he can back out of a deal, he has nowhere to go, that is why we see the crazy tweets and the frustrations. i think what irks him more than anything is the one common thread with all of this is his tax returns and that is where everything starts tumbling down. >> just one more thing to john's point, the relationship, the loyalty, such as it is, with republicans has nothing to do with them liking him personally, sharing ideas with him, or being in the trenches with him for years and years. it is 100% based on the political alliance and the voters. once i they will turn on him so far they will leave us in the dust. >> my father would say obedience

i can demand, respect i must earn. >> he does not have a chief of staff that respects him. the economy, if the economy starts going south, if we end up into a recession as many americans think we will be, many americans think we will be by the end of 2019, does that affect donald trump more than any of this. >> what it might mean is he can't be renominated. i don't put the chances of him being renominated by the republican party very high at this point. i remember the kennedy challenge against sitting president carpeter. i remember reagan's challenge against sitting president ford. so i don't know if he will get removed from office, i think it is much less likely. >> but the rnc is very strongly

behind the president. >> right now, but if the economy goes down, romney and mcdaniel. >> but they don't determine those primaries. there is republicans that voted for dcs the last time. if they're offered an opportunity to vote in the other primaries, they will move back, and he will be in a world of legal hurt even if he has not been impeached. >> do you agree with that? >> yes, we have already seen the ground softening. when you look at the pole numbers, would you like to see -- you can like donald trump, but you start to see a challenger. if you're the president you're very concerned. >> i'm starting to wonder if his

running is a fore gone conclusion. >> i don't think he is running. >> we'll find out. >> well he is not -- yeah, but he has a reelection academy. >> and he knows he will get indicted the minute he leaves office. >> that is true today, we'll see what happens in 020. >> we're coming back to you, stay with us. ahead, about the president's alleged hush money payments, they may not have happened at all but even if they did happen, there is nothing wrong with them or so says his lawyer. (chime)

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welcome back, more staff shakeups tonight. the number two resigned today. that after mick mulvaney was named his new chief of staff. zinke who was at the white house today has been the focus of numerous ethics investigations. president trump says he will announce his pick to succeed zinke this week. we'll be back with the president's mounting legal

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welcome back, one day before michael flynn is set to be investigated, two former business associates have been di indicted. both men are accused of illegally lobbying lawmakers to have a rival of the turkish president expelled from the u.s. it is just the latest evidence of the broad reach of mueller's inqui inquiry. they are requesting some leniency. including this inquiry into lobbying. and they're saying it is the reason the president will not sit down for an interview with robert mueller. >> good luck, after what they did to flynn, they trapped him

to perjury. 14 days facebook popp -- i could be dead. >> with us now is daniel goldman. he is a legal analyst, we're going to get to giuliani in is second. explain exactly what they're being charged with and what it means for the mueller investigation. >> they are being charged with the violation of failing to register with a foreign lobbyist. and one of them was charged with several counts of false statements. what is interesting about that is that michael flynn was not charg charged, but he was clearly right in the middle of this

conspiracy. so when he gets sentenced tomorrow he will be working down from his zero to sixth month difficult range. robert mueller did not charge him with the full crimes that he could. that is not the discuss tom where i worked for ten years. you would ordinary require a cooperating witness to get the top charge. it will become difficult now that this case was referred to by mueller, and if michael flin w -- flynn was a witness there, he was not charged with everything that his coconspirators were charged

with. >> part of it, yeah. michael flynn travelled with the president in the 2016 campaign. people called him the trump whisperer. he opened for him at events. it is like what happened to him while he was in the military service, or fired him from one of his top posts, was the same thing as democrats and the establishment and the establishment republicans going after trump, they were in the trenches together. that is one thing, but the entire time he was acting in that way, he was essentially working for the turkish government. >> it was really shocking. he was a national security advisor during the campaign who at the same time is getting paid by the turkish government to

lobby american officials to reverse stated u.s. policy and adjudications with this cleric in refusing to extradite him without telling anyone. and they created a bow discuss company, and when they were caught essentially after the election, they made up a lot of false statements. it is giquite egregious. >> what is going on with giuliani. he seems to be more benligerant by the day. >> he may just know what is coming down the road. i think the president and his attorneys because of his position, they get warning about what is coming, so when the dump

was happening, that was not a crime, that screams to me that he is trying to insulate the president from a forth coming indictment. >> so she already invoking a pr strike that i did to make that not look like a big deal because he socially has information from the special council. >> it is either that or he just, he is blatantly dead wrong. >> it trump know that michael cohen was coming in the end of 2016. they covered all of the way up november of 2016.

i mean, until you sit down and answer the questions and you go back and you look at the papers and you look at all of that, you're not going to know what happened. that is why they prepared them. >> michael cohen said that they say that he ended in june 2016, does he really just not know the dates or does he know them better than anyone else? >> the open question is whether or not trump and his children or other people involved in the trump organization continued. >> so he may have just revealed something inadvertently. all right. daniel goldman, thank you for coming in, appreciate your time, always a lot to talk about. ahead a new presidential poll

from iowa. kwe guess what democrat is now in the top three? (chime)

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sanders are at the top of the poll. biden for his time as vice president and sanders for his showing in the 2016 caucuses. plus, being atop the caucus pole is no guarantee of guess. >> this is why i love coming to iowa. scott walker lead in the first early poll last time around, donald trump was in 15th place. if the first poll is about name id, the most surprising result is beto o 'rourke. so who wants to take bets on how long beto, how long before she in iowa. we'll be right back. maria ramirez? hi.

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time now to go back a-block, our first segment about the russian disinformation campaign. guys, it mirrors what donald trump says, and the way donald trump attacks the mueller probe, and the way donald trump continues with his tweets to divide the country. and it wasn't the 2016 election, it's continuing today. what's your take? >> i didn't think the fact that it mirrors what donald trump has said, and also, having looked this stuff, it mirrors what the russians found organically, on faik and instagram. they borrowed and stole -- >> is that how they figured out how to be sophisticated in their targets? >> they found the things that were most potent and angry and

vicious that were already in our politics culture and reflected it back at us as intently as they could. that was the technique. it was not so much the misinformation or disinformation. it was amplifying the worst parts of our own politics. and that's what is so tragic about it. >> so what's the solution? >> a lot of the stories were from breitbart, so there's now what's being called synergy, and there was a kind of informal collusion, if you're singing off the same choir book, right? the solution, as always, is public education. you know, and that sounds like a -- kind of a feel-good sort of thing. but if people become media litera literate, that can, over time, if we can incorporate that into curricula, people will stop believing everything. older people are less media literate than younger people.

younger people know a lot of what they see online is bull. older people are more credulous and more likely to believe it. so that's hope for the future is that younger people do have a sense that they can't just take at face value -- >> a lot of this information was made to look like it came from local news, because the russians new that local news was more trusted in this country, not made to look like national news. but made to look like the more trusted outlets we have in this country. >> which also to follow up, there's two major issues i found very concerning right now. one, we have a foreign government that is messing around with our democracy, and this time it was helping a republican, next time it can help a democrat. this is not a partisan effort in that sense. this is to come after the united states of america. that's what russia is doing. we have to look if there's going to be harder sanctions, but there must be action against them. the other problem, and you talk

about education, we have a legislature in our house and senate that is not very savvy when it comes to these things. we saw last week a hearing that was pretty embarrassing with the head of google. and they need to be educated, because we do have to talk about some serious regulations and these entities definitely need it. >> you cover the tech community, you cover facebook certainly. what are they doing behind the scenes? are they doing much to try and figure this out or is it more of a pr strategy to save face? >> they're doing some things, but here is the biggest problem. the same thing that makes facebook, for example, or twitter or youtube an effective platform for distributing this content from the russians is the same quality that makes it good for finding -- they're really good at knowing what turns you on, what makes you angry, excited, happy. they play on your emotions. i am not sure having covered

this for over a year now, i'm not sure that you can solve this problem with these social media platforms working the same way they do today. they have to rewrite the code of how they work. >> rewriting that code should start with saying that being on a social media platform is a privilege, not a right. right now, it looks like just being on a soap box, but if you can lose your privilege to be on the social media, it should be much easier to say you're spreading hate, you're out, i'm sorry. you're not going to be on our platform anymore. that requires regulation. >> we've got to leave so much on this. we're nowhere close to how to deal with it. logging off doesn't seem viable, either. ahead, the gripes of wreaths. if we're gonna steal christmas,

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in case you missed it, look at this. the government does listen, right there, case in point. the agency that runs the holland tunnel between manhattan and new jersey, you may have heard something about the tunnel's holiday decor. >> so let's look at the holland tunnel. >> holland tunnel. >> the holland tunnel. >> people think the christmas tree over the "n" should be over the "a." >> ocd nightmare.

>> that looks so stupid. >> how is that not in the right place? >> he is not happy with how they've decked the halls. >> i get why that's air fitting. >> the city's port authority thinking what they think. >> 21,000 people chose between these four options, and this afternoon, we learned what their decision was. >> the winning option is to move the christmas tree with its triangular form over to the "a" congruent with the "a" pursuant to our commuter's suggestion. >> in other words, option "c" for the win. the tree will be moved tonight. with the votes tall yesterday, it is time for some healing. surely this story has taken a heavy toll on all of us. but our connections run deep, because we're all headed in the same direction. so let's stop with all the pile-ones and move forward together.

and remember, voters, even if you didn't get your way this time, this too shall easy pass. oh, boy. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow. "the beat with ari melber" starts now. are you back from peru this >> i am. that is where i was. i feel like a lot happened. >> machu picchu. >> machu picchu. >> did you meet any aliens in >> this is the problem when two news anchors try to talk to each other. we're both asking questions. i didn't meet any aliens, but i did see a lot of aliens. they have these giant circles that look like they're from aliens, but -- all about farming research. >> very interesting. in response to your question, nothing