flynn about his -- and his lawyer about their memo last week, that suggested that fbi agents might have tricked the former national security adviser when they didn't tell him, lying to the fbi is a crime. you heard the theory floated by the white house and its defenders here and elsewhere. that all blew up today. michael flynn himself said he is not challenging the circumstances of the interview. that he knew lying to the feds was a crime when he lied to the feds, that he was not entrapped, that he was guilty. >> the sound you hear is a million conspiracy theories exploding. in the case of the united states versus michael t. flynn, the president wished the defendant, a confessed felon, good luck in his showdown with america. flynn needed it and so, apparently, might the president as the walls continue to close

in around him. welcome to morning joe. it is wednesday, december 19th, along with joe, willie and me. we have mike barnacle. richard haass, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius and former u.s. attorney for the northern district of alabama and an msnbc contributor joyce vance. >> so when we've been talking about how the institutions will hold up the institutions will be just fine. we've talked about the justice department, we've talked about congress, we've talked about a lot of other things. the federal judges, our judicial system, and, willie, yesterday

you had a federal judge whose job was to follow the law. so, you know, i really don't care what the president of the united states is saying. i don't care what the pundits are saying. i don't care what the world is saying. we're going to look at this case. we're going to look at what he did and he's going to face justice. and, boy, this reagan appointee, later elevated by george h.w. bush showed what judicial independence means from the threats of a president and the threats from, you know, commentators on tv of and radio. >> much to the frustration of president trump, these people continue to do their jobs. judges, prosecutors in the southern district, the attorney general now in the state of new york who is shutting down the trump foundation. that's going to be put to bed. all these people can go about their job, including, by the way, bob mueller goes about his job as a special prosecutor, as you said, not listening to the

noise and as you mentioned, those conspiracy theories blowing up yesterday. general flynn himself blew them up. he went into court and he said of course i knew lying to the fbi was a crime and i continued to admit my guilty in this case. >> and the judge made him, mike, do that over and over again, basically repeat several times that he was guilty, that he lied to the fbi. >> joe, yesterday was a terrific day for the united states of america and the systems of government that still work, including the federal judiciary system and judge emmet sullivan. as you indicated, having general flynn, a three-star general standing in front of him reare petedly answering questions from the judge, did you know? were you lying? yes. i mean, a series of questions, affirmatively answered by a defendant and the federal judge, emmet sullivan sitting there on the bench telling him basically you cannot come into my courtroom and try to cut a back

door deal with no jail time and, yet, your lawyers filing a petition to the court claiming that, you know, well, you were tricked into this want you're not going to be able to get into that. >> a man that intel minds, was too stupid to know what he was doing when it comes to the fbi agents. the judge called bs on it and was angry. and i'll tell you what, i think it's what prompted everything yesterday. he was a terrible, terrible calculation on general flynn's lawyer's part.

>> a judge originally appointed by ronald reagan postponed the sentencing for ex white house national security adviser michael flynn. while delivering a stinging rebuke of the retired army general's ethics and warning he might not spare flynn from prison for his crime. this after flynn rejected several offers to challenge the zs of his fbi interview affirming to the court that he would give up his right to do so forever. the answering that he was guilty, sullivan told flynn, quote, you lied to the fbi about three different topics and you made those false statements while you were serving as the national security adviser. the president of the united

states most senior national security aid. i can't minimize that. while the judge later apologizeder for misstating the timing of flynn's work for turkey, he severely criticized his failure to register as a foreign agent and false statements about who paid him. arguably, that undermines everything this flag over here stands for. arguably, you sold your country out. the court is going to consider all of that. "the washington post" writes that with these words, flynn standing straight and flanked by attorneys looked shaken. his jaw clenched. at another point, sullivan asked, hypothetically, could he have been charged with treason? the prosecutors said they had no concerns about treason. the judge urged flynn to continue to cooperate, quote, i cannot assure you that if you proceed today you will not receive a sentence of incarceration.

but i also have to tell you if at some point the government says you have concluded with your cooperation, you could be sentenced. >> the easy sentence was general petraeus got, saying, well, he didn't get jail time. the judge said, well, i personally thought papa trayus should have gotten jail time. this is a judge from everything we've heard that takes seriously government service and especially when it comes to national security. if somebody raises the right hand and, you happen, they take an oath that they're going to protect and defend this country and the constitution of the united states, this judge takes it deeply personally when he -- when someone does not.

to help run this country in foreign policy and you're behaving this way? >> this is a judge who does take oaths of office government responsibilities very seriously. flynn's lawyers were said to have been happy when he was named to preside over this sentencing hearing because he has a history of pushing back on the government when he thinks the government has exceeded its authority. and flynn's lawyers must have hoped that they could appeal to judge sullivan's indignation by arguing that these fbi agents who came in to interview flynn hadn't warned him, hadn't told him that he was -- he shouldn't lie to the fbi. the opposite happened. the judge just blew a gasket. the language he used was extraordinary. i'm not hiding my disdain and i'm not hiding my disgust. i think he went a little too far in accusing fwllynn of treason.

>> a couple things on that, though, david. the latter is a distinction without a difference. he's talking to foreign entities he's trading his influence and especially with russia he's on his way to the white house. i don't know that there's a great difference there. on the first part, federal judges, that's just what -- i'm sorry, joyce can tell us this in a little bit. that's just what federal judges do. if they're angry, they come in and they shake people up, hey, why didn't you guys figure -- >> joe, your basic point is absolutely right. the judges are a wild card in any criminal case and here we saw it, the table had been set. mueller thought he knew exactly what was going to happen. boom.

it's all different because this judge really felt specially, emotionally, angry. >> so joyce advance, i'm interested to hear your perspective on what happens in there. i think the reason general flynn was described as having a clenched jaw and looking shaken is because the prosecutors recommended he get no prison time. as he stood before judge emmet yesterday, it was clear that the judge was considering prison time very seriously and may still be, depending on what kind of cooperation general flynn continues to lend the special counsel. >> every once in a while, a prosecutor runs into a judge who simply is not inclined to follower their sentencing recommendations. it doesn't happen a lot of the time, but it does happen. and something that i think is really interesting here is that those redacted sentencing memos that we've all been reading and trying to fill in the blanks behind the black lines on, judge sullivan has been able to read those memos in their entirety.

so he's seen the the conduct that flynn engaged in and it looks to me like the essential problem he has with the government is he disagrees with the charging decision. the government charged flynn with essentially lying to the fbi. it carries a relatively low sentence under the sentencing guidelines. judge sullivan seemed to think that he should have been charge dollars with more significant crimes and that looks like the origin of the issue that we saw yesterday. >> joyce, to that point, did you get a sense from the judge's comments from the bench that the mention of petraeus, the redactions that he clearly has read that we have no -- we have not seen, his anger at the sentencing disparities involved here where you have a three star about to walk on a serious charge, where you had general petraeus who was walked on a serious charge.

>> mike, i hate to say this, bring this up, but donald trump actually told me that he couldn't pick petraeus as his secretary of state because all the other generals told him that he had voiled a sacred trust he is been given. just a little footnote to this question. but go ahead. >> did you get the sense that judge sullivan is angry about sentencing disparity here? >> i'm not sure if it's disparity so much as it's this idea ooh abuse of a position of trust. that's a concept that's baked into the guidelines. you actually get an increase in your sentencing calculus if you abuse a position of trust. the lawyers for general flynn made, i can, an extreme miscalculation. what they wanted to do was

recommend general flynn should receive a sentence unlike others in the mueller case who had been accused of this same crime and they had received brief custodial sentences. flynn's lawyers wanted to make sure their guide didn't go to jail. so they used the example of general petraeus. they compared in this instance fatally general flynn's advice from the fbi to that that was given to papadopoulos and vanderswan and the judge wasn't buying any of it. for this judge, it was the wrong way of teeing up the issues. >> on the whole petraeus thing, mika reminded me that he did not trust anyone that -- >> he said he works out too much. >> and as donald said, that was a misuse. >> people will think you're kidding. >> but michael is in very good

shape. >> he said anybody that works out that hard in the morning, it is a misuse of your energies. >> so, that he, let me go to richard haass now. >> i'm not sure where to go with that. >> it's not meant to be bait. it's just information. >> i'm just reporting. >> doing your job. >> i report, you decide. so anyway, rich afterward, i can this judge not only sent a message to general flynn and the white house, but i thought he sent a great message to our allies across the globe that had been concerned that maybe the united states was wavering its belief in the rule of law, in its norms. this judge said yesterday, the circus may be in town, but when it leaves, the people that messed up the streets will be cleaning the streets up and there will be a return to

normalcy. >> yeah. it's an important message. we think a foreign policy is something diplomates do or the national security counsel does. it's some of the most important things we do or what we are. it's the functioning of the courts, it's the functioning of the media, it's the functioning of the society. whether we send the message that america works. when we're dysfunctional, that undermine eggs our appeal and that sends a reassuring message to the world. so yesterday was a pretty good day. >> the coverage, though, leading up to this is was fascinating. >> yeah. commentators on fox news had some thoughts on what judge sullivan would do after he took over to the judge could personally review michael flynn's guilty plea.

>> tuesday, the parties will appear again before judge emmet sullivan, a jurist unafraid of the swamp who has a track record of calling out prosecutorial misconduct. >> he was so angry at the abuse of power back in the ted stevens case -- >> a man who does not tolerate injustice -- >> -- he ordered a special investigation into the investigators he was so pissed off. >> why are you charging this guy with something he didn't do? >> emmet sullivan has a reputation for wanting to know that the government has done everything by the book. >> that's something that i hope judge emmet sullivan on tuesday at the sentencing poses to the mueller team of partisans. >> the question is should they be rewarded for breaking the law or should judge sullivan impose a consequence on them. >> sullivan said i'll decide what is exculpatory. give me all of it.

>> if he finds that they falsified evidence, he can throw out the guilty plea. >> can throw out this guilty plea. >> and set him free. >> i think it will be fascinating judge sullivan what he's going to do the first part of the week here. >> you push all your chips to the middle of the table, you better be sure you have a good hand. >> that was rough. way off. >> that one came up snake eyes. >> joyce. >> you know, it's one thing if you're bobby knight and you're working the roughs all day and maybe you throw -- you don't do this to federal judges. i mean, you know, i learned as a lawyer, when a federal judge walked by, you can kept my head down and kept walking. i did that to ap reporters in congress. >> the trump apologists and that

being picked up specifically by flynn's lawyers got this judge a little worked up. >> you know, the judiciary takes its independence incredibly seriously. and there's no doubt that they've been under attack by this administration. created rulings, done it in an independent way that honors the tradition of following the law in this country. if decision at the end of the day was granted an assess many of the law and the sentencing are regime on this particular case. he didn't play into the hands of the political types expected in this instance. and it's interesting the footnote here is that he was the judge in the ted stevens case.

the prosecution by the justice department that went badly wrong. judge sullivan believed the government withheld ex kul thattory evidence and took the government to task. that's what he tried to do yesterday to hold everyone to their legal duties as he saw it. >> he may have seen some unredacted evidence. he may know more. anybody involved in this case understands we know very, very little of what robert mueller has right now. and if you're a federal judge and you're seeing a guy walk in this case, it might upset you. still ahead on "morning joe," arizona gets a new senator. criminal justice reform sails through the senate. the government is poised for a shutdown, much like the

president's personal charity. we have a lot to get to. but first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> good morning. when you think of washington state, you don't anothexactly t of tornados. but that was the case yesterday, extremely rare in december. they only average like 2 1/2 tornados per year, period. let alone right before christmas. this one did some significant damage. you can see it there in the parking lot. look at the roof of that building. thankfully, there were no injuries and no fatalities. we'll find out how intense that was later on today. this is the next storm making ate rainy morning in east texas. the rain spreads in the southeast, in another not too bad. but tomorrow, the storm strength s. atlanta, charlotte, raleigh, down through orlando. into tamp a pa late thursday and then this rain storm kicks up the east coast. friday morning, significant airport delays. that will move towards boston and harvard as we go throughout the afternoon.

we could have some minor delays. and then as far as the holiday goes through the weekend, saturday looks great for all your travels. sunday, not much issues. big storms in the west, the northwest and the northern rockies. by the time we get to christmas eve, just got cold throughout areas of the northeast. finally, for christmas day, this is a little new. a little weak system could bring light snow to areas of virginia, maybe d.c. maybe. that's not a problem, though. temperatures are mile, maybe rain and snow mix. new york city, still mott looking for a white christmas. new york city, if you have airport plans, come friday morning, i do expect significant delays. you're watching "morning joe." we'll by right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll by right back. ♪ not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians

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avoiwelcome back. senate appropriations committee chairman richard shelby told reporters last night that lawmakers were working on drafting a continuing resolution to fund the government until early february. two democratic sources tell nbc news that both house and senate democrats are indicating they would not oppose that plan. but president trump said he does not want to sign additional continuing resolutions. so we'll see how that squares out. also in the senate, lawmakers passed a bipartisan criminal justice reform bill setting the stager for the most massive change to the federal prison sentence in in a generation.

senators passed the first step act. the senate's version of the bill heads to the house where it's expected to pass. president trump tweeted that he looks forward to signing it. we'll see with senator james lankford about this next hour. >> this is something that you've had people on the left and the right talking about for some time. >> 87-12 was the vote. this is as bipartisan as we're going to get these days. but this doesn't impact -- this is a federal law, so we still have state and local prisons that have some sentencing

problems and -- but, you know, if you can reduce the difference between crack cocaine and powder cocaine, all these things that have dogged this country fort 35 years now, this is a step in the right direction. >> and in one of the most significant gun reforms in recent years, the trump administration has moved to ban rapid fire bump stocks. it reclassifies the items as machine guns making them illegal to sell or own. it is expected to take effect in late march, giving owners 90 days to surrender or destroy their devices, according to senior justice officials. several gun rights introoups groups have already announced plans to sue. >> it's a very small steps towards sane, rational, gun safety laws, but it is a first step. >> yeah. we should be flawed that it's there. we'll take it. >> we certainly had will take it. >> but the idea that gun groups are going to go sue and they'll

probably get some satisfaction in some local district court and it will jump up and keep on going illegally, but i'll take it. >> so following an upsetting instagram post last week describing his struggle with mental health, snl star pete davidson is receiving an outpouring amount of support from family and friends and republican congressman-elect dan chen shaw who appeared on snl to respond to a less than tasteful joke made by the comedian regarding kren screnshaw's eye revealed that he reached out to the comedian. >> i talked to him personally yesterday and talked to him for a bit about it. we don't go back very far. we're not good friends. but i think he appreciated hearing from me. and what i told him was this. everybody has a purpose in this world. got put you here for a reason. but it's your job to find that purpose, okay? and you should live that way.

you should live that way seeking out that purpose, not expecting it to be given to you by anybody else. >> obviously. both of those gentlemen have been through a good bit. pete davidson losing his dad on 9/11, but, you know, incoming congressman certainly has seen some pretty tough times himself. just a total class act and a great thing to do. >> and, for me, willie, that's what you do. you see someone who needs help, if you see somebody struggling with mental health issues, don't sit back and wonder what to do. reach out. >> and dan krenshaw has shown grace and mercy over the last couple of months when he was insulted on snl. it's in such short supply in our politics right now and the instinct is to go on the attack and to defend yourself and be more aggressive than the person who attacked you. but dan crenshaw said you made a joke about me, let's talk about why that was a bad joke. .i'll come and shake your hand and when i see you in trouble,

i'm going pick up the phone and call you. >> what you just heard from dan chen shaw is -- it's who and what we need more of in the united states congress and it's who and what we need more of living around us, next door in our towns. >> understanding and empathy. still ahead, we'll continue the conversation that we started at the top of the hour. but what did and didn't happen at michael flynn's hearing yesterday. we'll be joined by a federal prosecutor who once worked with special counsel robert mueller. "morning joe" is coming right back. robert mueller "morning joe" is coming right back at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected

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the judge sullivan basically said he was disgusted by michael flynn's crimes. he said he had disdain for flynn. flynn said he knew that it was illegal to lie to the fbi and he was ready to accept responsibility. this is all before agree to go a delay in the sentencing. given that, are you in a position now or would you like to revisit your comments earlier today that the fbi ambushed flynn? >> no. we still firmly believe, look, the things that may have taken place, again, that's for the judge to make that determination.

whether he engaged in something inappropriate. what we do know that was inappropriate by own self-admittance of james comey is that the fbi broke standard protocol in the way that they came in and ambushed general flynn. >> james comey never said that the fbi broke protocol or even acted inappropriately with flynn. >> do they send these around with fact machines? they come around with conspiracy theories and -- >> and hanging on to them after what we heard in court yesterday. toe the line. >> it's unbelievable. >> as "the washington post" put it, the white house lost its narrative on michael flynn so it made up some stuff about james comey instead. >> so now they're talking about james comey. that's -- >> joining us now, former u.s. attorney and former aid to robert mueller. now with nbc news law enforcement analyst chuck rosenberg. the judge delayed the sentencing, sent him back.

what happens next? >> he will be sentenced initially. what i imagine will.happen next is the government will probably file something else with the judge laying out in great detail general flynn's cooperation. it seems to me the judge wants more. my guess is they'll get more. >> you thought the judge was out of line yesterday? >> in some suspects, i thought he was in temperate. for instance, i don't think you throw the word treason around lightly in a federal courthouse. >> why do you think he did that? have you ever seen federal judges throw things out to rattle witnesses around who they think are arrogant? >> i grew up in a era that was somber. >> a quiet family. >> have i seen it? sure. but, i also thought in some respects judge sullivan was spot on when he was cynical of flynn's lawyers to say he was trapped, that he was ambushed.

that was nonsense. >> do you think in the end that is what anchored him the most? oh, really, you're going to blame your -- i mean, you don't get to plea, you don't get to come in here, you don't get to walk off scott free and blame all your problems on law enforcement. >> he yeah. i think general flynn's lawyers -- and this is easy for me to say sitting here days later, a day later, made a significant miscalculation. judge sullivan has a reputation for holding everyone to account, as judges should. and they thought perhaps that they were playing to an audience that would be more friendly to the notion that the fbi overreached, except it didn't. they didn't do anything wrong. not legally, not practically, not in terms of policy. there was no ambush. fbi agent are welcome to go speak to anyone they want to, including a general, including in the white house. so the notion that the fbi overreached or overstepped is utter nonsense. >> and the judge said we're going to delay your sentencing so that you can go continue to

cooperate so that we can get more -- extract more information from you. what does that meaner for the special counsel's investigation, to have him as a continuing source of information? >> it may be like an unwanted house guest. willie, he has met with special counsel's office 19 times. the prosecutor said we have everything we need. we're comfortable going to sentencing yesterday. maybe there's more stuff they can ring out of general flynn. although i think it's probably run its course. but they'll try. and it may be the case that he's necessary for that new matter recently indicted in virginia regard two people from turkey. >> joyce, was the judge out of line yesterday? >> i see it in many ways like chuck does. bandien treason about in a courtroom is surprise to go

people who grew up in judicial districts where there's a lot of restraint. but this judge was spot on to hold the parties accountable in the way that he saw fit and, perhaps, ultimately this works out in general flynn's favor to have the sentencing continued and to have the government give the judge a more fulsome explanation of what they view as the value of general flynn's cooperation. i'd be interested to hear chuck's view. there's been a lot of criticism of the mueller investigation for offering general flynn a sentence that's a noncustodial sentence. he won't go to prison. yet prosecutors have to often use this plea bargain to get the ball rolling in an investigation. so i'm wondering what chuck thinks about that sentence and whether he believes general flynn should have received some form of a custodial recommendation. >> yeah. i think that's a great question, joyce. to my mind, this is what

happened when someone comes in early, as general flynn did and developmen developme cooperates fully as general flynn did. he pled a year ago. he's met with special counsel 19 times. is there some leententsy here? yes. but is it important for prosecutors to get into a custody and understand what happened? yes. so i understand it. i don't think a custodial sentence, by the way, is necessary when you're dealing with, you know, someone like general flynn. i think the stigma of a felony conviction, which will be with him the rest of his life, unless pardoned, of course, should do the trick. >> richard, i want to ask you and david ignatius your thoughts about other things we've learned this week. this investigation started around russia's interference with american democracy. you had most of the president's intel community and the head of the department of homeland

security say american democracy is under attack. what is your reaction to russia not only getting involved in trying to swing the election in 2016, but even after that trying to attack and destroy robert mueller using many of donald trump's same arguments? >> yeah. it's still going on. russia is probably better and putin is better playing a weak hand than just about any other leader on the world side. this is a country that has no economy, has a shrinking population, just over 60 million people, fewer than aspect stan. let's get some perspective on it. they stole military power. look at what they continue to do in ukraine. look at what they did in syria. >> we've heard concerns about possible attack against ukraine. are you concerned about that in the coming month? >> absolutely. i think they'll expand their position in eastern ukraine. if you're putin, that wouldn't be reckless. guess what? putin is kind of getting away with that like he got away with

what they did before, like he got away with using force indiscriminately in syria and russia has its energy capabilities, has its cyber. they pieced together the elements of an influential power from a very weak hand and we continue to essentially -- we're teaching putin the lesson that this works. he's the not run an enormous risk. and i don't understand -- i had two questions yesterday watching all of this. one is either these russians took american undergraduate studies or they must have had some help. it was awfully sophisticated the way they were acting to use cyber, to influence on our election. and the other is why are we so passive? putin is worried most about one thing. vladimir putin's continued power and rule in russia. why are we not using cyber and other tools to think about how we make his life more difficult? why rewe just playing defense? your first question about how they knew, how to target in

wisconsin and how they knew how to target better than a lot of american political operatives, i suspect that is what -- in part where the mueller investigation is going and there are certain people who haven't been central to this investigation yet who should duck. >> to use a word that the judge used, that's where elements of treason. why is it that americans might be cooperate, russians to undermine american democracy. i'd like to know that. >> and to give them voting lists, targeted voting lists. we'll see. >> so david ignatius, we're going to move from the investigation to russia. regarding what may happen in the next month or two. i know that mika's brother, eeenneian brazynski, who has worked in this field for a long time is concerned about the possibility of of the coming attack over the next month or two because

there's very little reaction to ramming the ukrainian ships last week. you've got theresa may fighting for her political life. you've got mac crone fightinger for his political life. you've got donald trump fighting for his political life and you've got angela merkel stepping off the stage. it's kind of like when putin went into georgia in 2008. george w. bush had more things to worry about than georgia. so what are the fears that he may move on ukraine in the next month or two? >> well, joe, he is a person who we've seen exploits power vacuums. he has a very cynical appreciation of american weakness and disorientation right now. he sees the same thing in europe. what's typical for putin -- i think that pofor putin, conflic

isn't an on/off switch. he dials et up as high as he thinks he needs to, can get away with and leave it there. i can see him dialing it up significantly on ukraine. russia experts don't think he imagines he can get ukraine back. and what he's seeking is a kind of quasi autonomous state in the west. he might go for that. i think in general, the russians are sort of seeing now a new role to be not just bullies in the middle east and eastern europe, but people who set the table for diplomacy. i think the russians have enjoyed being the diplomates and the astona process in syria, for example. there's this aspiration putin has the to be seen as a great power leader again, not just a bully. so i think we would see more of that. but let's be honest, this period when the u.s. is weak, is not

capable of having a strong diplomatic presence. >> think about it. the u.s. leader, the british leader, the french leader, are all fighting for their political lives. >> it's an incredible time on many levels. and big picture, chuck rosenberg, final thoughts before we go. connecting the dots between the mueller probe, russia's interest in mueller, which we discovered in the past week and the events with michael flynn yesterday, can we prognosticate that flynn will have more to offer. >> maybe not flynn. it seems like that may have run its course, although i'm sure prosecutors will be open to it. but there are pieces missing. for instance, when the mueller team indicted nthose russian military officials, they made reference to the to the fact that u.s. persons, plural, were in contact with russian military intelligence and helped in some way. so my guess is that there's more

to come. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you very much. still ahead, the trump foundation is shutting down. after new york's attorney general accused the charity of a shocking pattern of illegality with. we'll talk to "the washington post" reporter who has been following the finances of the trump foundation for years. "morning joe" will be right back. right back

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a few other stories that we're following this morning, republican congresswoman martha mcsally has been tapped to fill retiring senator jon kyl's seat, the same seat long held by the late senator john mccain. doug ducey's office announced this in a statement days after kyle said he planned to retire

from a the seat. the appointment which becomes effective next month will revive mcsally's political life after she narrowly lost in november's election to fill senator jeff flake's senate seat to democrat kyrsten sinema. mcsally's appointment adds arizona to a small group of states that has two women serving in the u.s. senate. i love that. actress penny marshall best known for her role as laverne in have a learn & shirley died on monday night in her home due to complications from diabetes at the age ever 75. marshall was not only a great actress, but also made history with her directing career with films such as "big" and "a league of their own" becoming the first woman to direct a feature film that grossed more than $100 million. we were lucky enough to sit down with the legend a few years back when she explained to us how she got her big break back in 1971

on her brother's comedy "the odd couple" when she was cast as none other than jack's flighty secretary. >> i pitched "the odd couple" to jack klugman, asked him if he wanted to do it. he didn't know who i was, i didn't know -- do you want to do "the odd couple." he said who are you? penny. what? i said my brother is doing this. so he ended up doing it. and then when they went to multi-camera because it was one camera the first season. >> right. >> they added more characters and so he needed a secretary. he said, why don't you get your sister because she's the one who got me into this. >> right. >> so i became oscar's secretary and i go, i just whine. >> what a classic. >> she was so good. >> and we still have a lot to get to this morning. we will be joined by republican senator james lankford on the heels of the senate passing a landmark criminal justice reform

bill. plus the trump foundation is shutting down and selling off its assets including a couple portraits of donald trump paid for by his charity. we will talk to a former federal prosecutor who was in the room for michael flynn's hearing yesterday. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. - [narrator] the typical vacuum head has its limitations,

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 19th. it's just before the top of the hour. >> guess whose birthday it is today, joey scarborough. happy birthday, joey. >> oldest child. how old is he? >> he's -- i'm old. >> yes. yes, we are. >> he's 31. >> oh, my gosh. happy birthday. good for you. >> joey will go down to 30th street guitars. >> we will get to yesterday's sentencing delay for former national security adviser michael flynn. in a dramatic hearing his attorney made the request for postponement after the judge signaled flynn could be headed to jail, but first we want to give you yesterday's big development with the trump foundation shutting down amid allegations that donald trump used the charity for his own personal and political benefit. new york attorney general

barbara underwood announced the foundation would be dissolving as her office pursues a lawsuit against the charity. in a statement underwood said the trump foundation exhibited a shocking pattern of illegality including unlawful coordination with the trump presidential campaign, repeated and willful self-dealing and much more. underwood added that the trump foundation functioned as little more than a checkbook to serve mr. trump's business and political interests. >> you know, we've been reading these stories for quite some time about the foundation and why don't we bring in right now the investigative reporter for the "washington post," msnbc contributor david farenthold who has been spending the last three years searching the globe for paintings of donald trump. >> just can't get enough of him. >> and tim tebow football helmets. by the way, i saw was it your story that i saw, he had to sell a couple of his portraits and

his tim tebow signed helmet which cost him, what, $47,000, $48,000 and what did he sell it for? >> he hasn't sold them yet. he has to sell them. that's part of the deal here is that he's going to have to sell the three physical assets of the trump foundation, which are a signed tim tebow helmet which he bought for $12,000. >> oh, my god. >> he actually bought it as tim tebow fever was ending, the broncos were getting massacred -- >> i could see if gary paid that much -- i'm sorry, gary. >> also lemire is here. >> hold on. >> we will let everyone know. >> jonathan lemire is here and his hair, as lauren would say, is perfect. >> and kcdc is here as well, the host of kcdc and mike barnicle. >> where is the lightning bolt. >> she's above it now and you need to stop it.

>> you're never above branding. >> zeppelin in the morning. >> i'm sorry, kasie. i started it. >> alex just said we're going to have to sell that off as one of our assets. >> now we all know who is here. >> david, i want to get back to david. go ahead, finish what you were saying 47 minutes ago. >> so he's going to have to sell off our tim tebow helmet and also two portraits of trump himself which he paid a combined $30,000 for using only charity money. he used his charity's money to buy portraits of himself, one of them he hung up on the wall at his golf club outside of miami, the other one we don't know where it went. if we get to figure out what he did with this portrait of himself, i will be happy. >> what you heard from the attorney general yesterday is pretty much what you've been uncovering for the past several years. clear violations of the law? >> that's right. so one of the basic tenets of

charity law is that if you have a charity it's a charity, it's a separate thing, has its own money, own aims. even if your name is on the charity it's still not your money but trump treated it as if it was his own money. he used the money from the charity to settle legal disputes his businesses were in, the portrait of himself and in 2016 he used his charity as lejdly as part of his campaign. he gave his kmart over to his political campaign to maximize the way that the donations were given out to make him look good on the campaign trail in iowa and new hampshire. all those things are supposed to be against the law. >> david, there is an interesting name in this report and that's alan weisselberg, the cfo of the trump organization for really preceding donald trump going back to his father knows all about the trump finances. he tells the ag that he was not even aware he was on the board, the trump foundation never held a board meeting. so this really watts a charity

in name only, wasn't it? >> that's right. the weisselberg thing is a great example. trump saw the charity as another checkbook for him to write checks out of. one proof of that was with alan weisselberg just wrote the checks for this one. there was none of the processes that a charity is supposed to have to protect its money, to make sure its money is not being misused. it was just a checkbook in alan weisselberg's pocket. >> this charity existed, they would raise money, they would have events and raise money, it would go into a coffer from which president trump would buy tim tebow helmets and nothing to do with charity. >> that's right. many of these cases he bought the portraits at a charity auction. his thought was as long as my money from one charity ends up with another charity that's okay. that's not the way the law works at all. >> this is still ongoing but yet

it's shutting town. first of all, what are the facts as it pertains to the trump family being able to be involved with any type of charities in the future, and why is it shutting down if this is just allegations at this point? >> so the attorney general when she sued trump asked for three things, she asked for the foundation to be shut down under court supervision, she asked for trump to pay millions of dollars in restitutions and penalties and she asked for the trump family to be banned from serving on the board of any new york charity for ten years in donald trump's case. so this is trump settling that first part. he's shutting the foundation down under court supervision. the other two parts remain pending, it's up to a judge in new york state to see how much monetary penalty she's going to impose and if she's going to ban the most powerful man in the world from serving on the board of any charity in new york state. >> david, going forward with the new york state attorney general coming in, taking office innen gentleman, who is on the hook on a civil basis? who among the members of the trump family would be on the hook on civil litigation?

>> well, i think the new attorney general lit is that james taking over for barbara underwood said she's going to be very aggressive. she said she wants to investigate not just this trump foundation case that's already rolling but also whether trump's family has taken emoluments in new york state, there is that great "new york times" story about the history of tax shenanigans in the trump family she's going to look into that. so the trump organization writ large as well as trump will be under the microscope according to her. >> how long would the children be banned from being on charities in new york? >> she's asked for, i believe, one year for all of them. just to explain why, ivanka, don and eric, they were on the board of this foundation, they were theoretically charged with looking out for its interests, making sure their father wasn't misusing its money and the board hadn't even met since 1999. >> david farenthold, thank you

very much. >> that was a very long meeting in 1999, very insightful. >> a 20-year meeting. to yesterday's surprise twist in the sentencing hearing of ex-white house security adviser michael flynn. federal district court judge emmet sullivan originally oi pointed by ronald reagan postponed the sentencing for flynn to allow him to continue his government cooperation. while delivering a stinging rebuke of the retired army general's ethics and warning he might not spare flynn from prison for his crime. this after flynn's attorneys rejected several offers to challenge the circumstances of his fbi interview, a forming the court he would give up his right to do so, quote, forever and answering that he was indeed guilty of making false statements to federal agents in the white house. in a lengthy broadside sullivan told flynn, quote, you lied to the fbi about three different

topics and you made those false statements while you were serving as the national security adviser. the president of the united states most senior national security aide. i can't minimize that. while the judge later apologized for misstating the timing of flynn's work for turkey, he severely criticized his failure to register as a foreign agent and false statements about who paid him, quote, i mean, arguably that undermines everything this flag over here stands for. arguably you sold your country out. the court is going to consider all of that. the "washington post" writes that with these words flynn standing straight and flanked by attorneys looked shaken, his jaw clenched. at another point sullivan asked hypothetically could he have been charged with treason? >> the prosecutors said they had no concerns about treason. judge sullivan urged flynn to continue to cooperate. quote, i cannot assure that if you proceed today you will not

receive a sentence of incarcerati incarceration, but i also have to tell you that at some point if and when the government says you've concluded with your cooperation you could be incarcerated. >> let's talk about, jonathan, the white house, what's going on over there, the president tweeting his seemingly his support for michael flynn in the morning. sarah sanders still after this judge clearly lays out the fact and michael flynn clearly states that he lied and he was guilty of lying and he understands that, they're still parroting the old talking points. can you give us inn sign? >> first of all, i would say it's highly unusual for the president of the united states to wish someone luck on their sentencing day which we saw yesterday. >> after that same president accused michael flynn of lying to the fbi. >> and to the vice president. we also saw sarah sanders in a fox news interview in the morning and later in a rare white house press briefing, our

first one in over a month stand behind flynn, defend the president's praise of him, even though as we just saw in the courtroom yesterday there was a suggestion of treason. it wasn't an accusation, but the word treason was thrown around by the judge and yet they still have willing to stand behind him and walk this fine line where they say that perhaps flynn did things that were improper or illegal, but that wasn't the president. the president wasn't involved. the president didn't do any wrongdoing, he is just defending him as a patriot. even though we saw of course on the weekend judge shapiro and others on fox news parrot this conspiracy that the fbi had lied to flynn and coerced his testimony which i think many on the right and many in the white house hoped that would lead to bob mueller's undoing. instead we have flynn yesterday in court suggest that didn't happen at all. >> are we allowed to speculate on this show? >> very carefully. i wouldn't speculate too much. >> i won't speculate too much, especially in this case. >> no, don't. >> i would just simply follow up

with what you said earlier, that this judge knows things that the rest of us don't know. robert mueller obviously knows volumes about this case and what lies beneath compared to us. i'm just wondering why donald trump is calling michael cohen a rat and yet the person who has cooperated with robert mueller the most and for the longest period of time, not only is he wishing him good luck going into a hearing, he has his white house going out, continuing the lie that mueller was entrapped, and then you have this judge acting in a way that doesn't make sense to us, even throwing out a word treason. now, if you add all of that up it may add up to nothing or it may suggest that donald trump is

extraordinarily concerned that michael flynn may peel away even more about what he saw going on in 2016 when he was flying with donald trump every day and maybe the judge didn't just randomly throw the word treason out there, maybe he had information that's not public yet. >> well -- >> how is that for speculation? >> in the speculation period, which is a limited period of time that we use here on "morning joe," the judge has clearly read everything that we see is redacted. it's not redacted on what the judge received. so he has -- he's privy to information that bob mueller has that we don't have that we won't have for quite some time. on the flip side of that the president of the united states and sarah sanders and everyone in the white house parroting what the president says basically it seems to be out of a fear that what michael flynn has given them already that they

might be fearful that there's even more. >> it feels like that. >> it's too late for them. if they're trying to keep michael flynn close that ship has sailed. he's met with the special counsel 19 times and judge sullivan yesterday kicked him back to the special counsel. >> does this not suggest, though, that the white house fears there may be more? does this not suggest that the judge thinks there's even more? does this not suggest that robert mueller thinks there may be more, that michael flynn is holding back. because it was confusing while it was going on, but if you step back, you're looking at -- you're going, oh, wait a second. >> he sent him back. >> wait a second, they're saying -- the judge is saying to flynn with his words and deeds, you have more work to do, general. >> yeah. >> you haven't done everything you need to do, general. and at the same time you've got the white house panicking, wishing him good luck after they fired him for lying. >> saying he was ambushed.

>> there is more out there. >> there you go, i just said it. speculation. >> the only thing that would go against that, joe, is that the fbi, the two investigators, peter stroke and the unnamed associate, they're pretty good at what they do and pretty good at getting to where they -- where they think, you know, flynn might be. so i don't know. >> the sort of confusion over why michael cohen is called a rat and flynn is wished good luck, sarah sanders was asked about that and here is her answer. >> michael flynn, he has cooperated with the special counsel's office and met with them 19 times. is there a particular reason why the president has not said he is a rat the way that he has said that michael cohen is a rat. >> look, we know michael cohen to be a liar on a number of fronts and the president's opinion is extremely clear on that front. i don't see any reason to go

beyond that comment at this point. >> because you really have no idea why. >> joining us now former assistant u.s. attorney for the district of columbia now an msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner who was in the courtroom for the flynn hearing. glen, how would you surmise what happened yesterday? >> good morning, mika. so being in the courtroom yesterday and watching these events unfold, i actually think judge emmet sullivan is our country's hero today and here is why. i take a slightly different view than chuck rosenberg who i saw giving his commentary a few minutes ago on your program. i hasten to add that if chuck rosenberg tells me my middle name is not louis i would probably pull out my driver's license to double-check. >> i agree. >> because both he and joyce vance are the consummate authorities on all things legal. but here is the way i see it, you know, chuck and joyce said they came up in jurisdictions that were a little bit more

reserved and a little bit more genteel. i came up first in the army courts as an army prosecutor and for 24 years in the courts of washington, d.c. where every day is a donnybrook and what we had unfold yesterday was judge emmet sullivan showing that the judiciary is still fiercely independent and the judiciary still cares deeply about governmental misconduct. what judge sullivan did was he first ticked through every ridiculous claim in that defense memo. were you entrapped? no, your honor, i wasn't. >> did you feel like you were okey-doked? >> no. did you feel like you needed a lawyer there? no. did you feel like you needed to be advised by the fbi that there was a crime to lie. of course he knew it was a crime to lie to the fbi. first he settled all of no he is issues. he asked the defendant, he asked the defense attorneys and asked the prosecutors. so there was no ambush here.

that was clear based on what unfolded yesterday. then he got his ire up and he started talking about how you sold out your country, sir. you violated everything this flag stands for and i cannot guarantee you a noncustodial sentence. i mean, that is exactly what i think a judge in these circumstances should do because he's not bound by the government's recommendation of zero to six months, he is not bound by the defense recommendation of zero to six months. i will tell you, moving forward, he did give general flynn more time to continue to cooperate, but i think moving forward just as judge sullivan said, michael flynn might still find himself in a jumpsuit and sitting his butt in a jail cell for a while. >> kasie hunt has a question. case. he? >> hi, glen. i'm curious what's the body language like in the room from flynn himself and from his attorneys as all of this unfolded? i mean, clearly they were not

expecting any of this. how big of a miss calculation was it for them and could you feel that in the room? >> you know, kasie, it's funny because the first note i took when i was sitting in the courtroom is that the atmosphere seemed lighthearted, more appropriate to a cocktail party than a serious sentencing, but, you know, the whole atmosphere changed and the dark clouds rolled in when it was clear that judge emmet sullivan would not stand for this sort of egregious governmental misconduct. general flynn's demeanor changed. he went from smiling to smirking to looking fearful when he ultimately took the judge up on his offer to delay his sentencing. i will tell you i sat there and i've been in those courtrooms for 30 years, but i was getting patriotic goose bumps as i heard judge sullivan sort of appropriately beat up on general flynn and i can tell you usually judge sullivan is one to beat up

on the prosecutors. if we're in there doing something, and i've appeared before him, we're doing something not to his liking, no the quickly or efficiently enough, believe me, we are going to hear about it. yesterday general flynn was government misconduct personified and i think that's why judge sullivan focused on him. >> glen, you have a piece entitled "is a trump indictment possible: mueller and the doj can and should reevaluate the office of legal counsel's memo." if you could expand upon that. >> sure. so it seems to me that there are a couple of reasons that the department of justice through the office of legal counsel has rendered this opinion over time that you can't indict a sitting president. one is that because the legislative branch has a mechanism to handle a criminal president impeachment, then we

really don't need to concern ourselves with indicting and trying a criminal president, but we've all seen that the legislative branch was abdicated its responsibilities, it's checks and balances responsibilities. if they refuse to stand up and deal with a potentially criminal president, then i think we have to revisit whether the judicial system should deal with it. the second thing is the olc prohibition against indicting a sitting president is premised on a president being lawfully elected not seeking to gain unfair advantage by paying off porn stars and playboy playmates, not excluding with foreign countries to undermine our free and fair elections and rob our citizens of the full value of their vote. those two underpinnings if they don't exist i think that blows out of the water the olc opinion that you can't otherwise deal with a criminal -- otherwise you're giving him full immunity and you're making him a king. that's part of the rationale

behind that. >> seems so basic, doesn't it? >> this isn't like ago knew aagd tax evasion, this goes directly into what put him into office or what may have had an impact on him being elected president, and aren't we sending the message, okay, if you commit a felony that helps you get elected president, you can't be convicted of that felony and you can't -- you can't be indicted if you get reelected. i mean, the message that is sent there is commit all the crimes you want to commit getting elected and you won't be touched by the judicial system, especially if you commit more crimes to get reelected, then you have an eight-year run. it makes absolutely no sense. >> exactly, joe. you can't steal the presidency and hold up the presidency as a

shield against being held accountable for stealing the presidency. it makes no sense. the final point i try to make in my think piece is that, for gosh sakes, we revisit supreme court precedent based on evolving societal norms or else we would still be operating under dred scott or blessy versus ferguson for goodness sakes. if we can reevaluate the wisdom of really horrific supreme court decisions how is it we can't reevaluate the wisdom of an olc memo that does not have the effect of law under present day circumstances? i will tell you having learned from bob mueller when he was my chief of homicide in d.c., i don't think he's going to leave this up to the vagaries of congress, i think he sees this as his problem to deal with and if i can get the approval i predict he will seriously consider indicting the president. >> i want to say for everybody watching, nobody here is

suggesting that the president has committed crimes, committed felonies that got him elected president of the united states, but if it is determined by robert mueller and in this investigation that he did commit crimes, campaign finance violations or other crimes, that were related to his first run for president, then there is a direct causation crime to result of him being elected president. and to prevent somebody from being prosecuted because of an illegal act that they did to get elected president of the united states, it makes no sense whatsoever. i completely agree with glenn. >> former assistant u.s. attorney glenn kirshner, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," the senate passed criminal justice reform, but funding the government is a whole other story, dilemma, actually.

we will talk to senator james lankford about that and his trip to afghanistan over the weekend. is the u.s. stuck in a stalemate there 17 years after 9/11? you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ the united states postal service makes more holiday deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ with one notable exception. ♪

we will talk to senator james we will talk to senator james this is not a bed.

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joining us now a member of the intelligence and homeland security committee, republican senator james lankford of oklahoma. >> i have the first question and it's an important question. orange bowl, how is it going to end, my man, alabama, oklahoma? >> it is absolutely going to win with an oklahoma win. they are due. joe, you know very well -- >> thank you for joining us. >> -- oklahoma is ahead of alabama when alabama and oklahoma play head to head. >> i will say, willie, oklahoma has had our number a good bit in the past. >> they've got a great quarterback, but alabama may score 90 points on them. >> do you know what, listen, i

will be happy if we just get a field goal. i mean, we're probably to lose by 60 points, but if we get a field goal against this scrappy sooner team i will be happy. >> it will be a good game either way. >> it's going to be a great game. let me ask you, you've always been a straight shooter, we've respected you so much for it. there have been some people that have been suggesting that general flynn was entrapped and he was duped, he didn't know what he was doing when he lied to the fbi. do you agree with those people or are you more on the side of the judge from yesterday? >> so i would tell you i wasn't in the courtroom yesterday, as your previous guest to be able to talk about that directly, but general flynn i don't think had a malicious intent in it. what's interesting is the evolving story from the fbi through the course of it where initially he came in, gave his nebulous answers, i'm not sure it was malicious, to shifting to

he lied to us, it's time to to be able to prosecute to he complied with us and now it's time to let him go. i have no question that there inn was talking to the russian ambassador and trying to engage him, to be able to say go easy on america basically, don't respond back to us harshly based on sanctions and trying to talk him down during that time period. he should have been honest with the fbi, should have been honest with the white house, that's why the white house fired him a month into his job. >> one more question on this, i just want to make sure and then we will move on. you do think that general flynn lied to the fbi, right? >> i do. >> that's what you would call a leading question. so we can now move on. let's talk about -- let's talk about criminal justice reform. it looks like a piece is broken out for at least an hour or two. what are your thoughts on criminal justice reform and how it came together? >> so we bipartisan cooperation on this. this was about eight years in the making. this was not some random piece flown together, it's had a lot

of different iterations, it's gone through a lot of different changes and it has basic things, minor sentencing reforms where there's conflict in the previous law to be able to turn it. it deals with bipartisan cooperation, when you have a mike lee and dick durbin working together to be able to pass a bill, one section called the mercy act is something that cory booker and i had worked on together dealing with juveniles in sole dear confinement, dealing with issues of ladies who are pregnant in prison and being able to manage some of those things, also the rebalancing of crack cocaine and powder cocaine. for those under a heavier sentence for crack cocaine rather than powder cocaine. the key thing that came out of it really is to try to be able to move from prisoners just being isolated in prison away from society, which they've committed a crime, they need isolation, but gives them the opportunity for rehabilitation. if they want job training, if they want an option to be able

to reconnect closer to family, to be in a prison closer to their families so they can stay connected, if they want opportunities for help in their drug rehabilitation, all this provides those incentives to go through that and a hopefully have less recidivism. >> david ignatius, jump in. >> senator, your committee issued two remarkable reports this week about russian interference in our political life, more detailed than anything that i've seen. i was curious what you take away from those reports and in particular given that the reports know that a theme of russian disinformation in the u.s. has been to devalue, question the mueller investigation of russian meddling, whether the white house has sometimes fallen into what's basically a russian pr line here. do you worry about that? >> well, what we have lived with for a long time the american people have seen now in these reports that we put out, these

are issues we've dealt with for the last two years now. no question that the russians were trying to use social media to try to be able to stir up controversy in the united states. this started in 2014 where they actively were building pages to try to build following because they were already looking to be able to target the election. a couple things come out in the report very clear, one is they were very engaged in the campaign and got prepared very early and the second one is they tried to find any topic in american life that was divisive and to be able to engage and try to stir up the pot with that. they actually had more posts after the election than they even had before the election and they were looking for issues like immigration, gay marriage, racial issues, the election obviously. anything that they could find that was divisive, they drove that topic as much as they possibly could and were as divisive as they possibly could on that to try to stir americans against each other. >> kasie hunt. >> senator, good to see you. i want to ask you about this

looming potential shutdown, but mitch mcconnell did say yesterday that he is convinced that the government will not shut down. i'm wondering do you share his confidence in the president's willingness to sign potentially a short term continuing resolution if you send him one, and how did republicans convince him that this trump shutdown was a bad plan? >> kasie, i don't know yet from the white house what their plan is on a continuing resolution. any shutdown that occurs obviously would be very -- much smaller than what has been done in the past. as you know about 75% of the government is funded for the entire year. we are dealing with the final 25% of issues that are big issues, but not like national defense and healthcare and all of the things that are fully funded at this point. i think there will be a continuing resolution that will be passed either today or tomorrow that will fund the government for several months and to be able to punt this into next year and i find that exceptionally frustrating. we have the appropriation bills done at this point, we've worked through the process, we've had

bipartisan support through the committees, we've conferenced these and i think we should be able to resolve it this year rather than try to punt it into next year. part of the challenge that we have right now is nancy pelosi is not in a position to be able to negotiate on this, she's not speaker, doesn't want to negotiate this until after she's already speaker and so that's locking us up with dealing with anything in the house and i would tell you the president is very strong on border security issues and he wants to be able to see border funding in any way on border security that he can get it. those two forces are impassable at this point. >> it's willie geist. you just came back from a trip over the weekend to afghanistan to visit the troops and assess the situation on the ground there. it's been, as you know, a deadly couple of weeks and months for americans, taliban claiming credit for these attacks that have killed a number of americans on the ground in afghanistan. as you were there, how do you articulate to the american people what we're doing there 17 years on now since this war

began? >> the challenge that we have is a lot of americans have forgotten why we are there. the war came to us, we didn't go to it. initially the attacks of 9/11 came out of afghanistan and the push into afghanistan was to try to deal with al qaeda who brought the attack to us. the taliban was their partner in that and our focus is two-fold right now. we still have a counterterrorism focus because isis is very strong in afghanistan and al qaeda is still very present and strong in afghanistan. we have a clear focus to be able to keep the battle there rather than letting them come back to the debates. the second thing is trying to get a stable government in afghanistan that they can push off these terrorist groups out of their own country. >> they've been trying to get that government for 17 years. what gives you hope that there will suddenly be a stable government in afghanistan. >> there are breakthroughs that are happening in negotiations trying to get the taliban and the existing government to sit down and do reconciliation u that's been a stronger focus to

try to get second ril yags between the two. the taliban are more like a big political party in afghanistan that clearly has strong militant elements in it. so the focus has been to isolate the militant elements and be able to remove them from the battlefield and those that want to actually engage in reconciliation to be able to get that part of the taliban to be able to sit down with the ghani government. presidential elections scheduled for may next year. there are transitions that are coming to there are moments for reconciliation now that haven't been there in the past and gives us optimism to get that done. >> do you see an end date to this war, in other words, do you see a day in the foreseeable future where there are not americans on the ground in afghanistan? >> no. let me answer that two ways. i do seen a end to the war but i don't see an end to the day when we don't have some americans bases there. just like we have a joint base in honduras that is still there, has been there for a long time. i see long-term there being some

basing in afghanistan, continue to fight off the terrorism threat coming from that region, but as far as an active battlefield, trying to be able to resolve the issues with the government, i do see an end date coming on that where there is not an ongoing fight there, but basing i think will be necessary long-term to protect our own national security. >> just like honduras, also, just like germany and just like -- >> japan. >> japan. >> south korea, japan. sometimes it's just -- it's an absolute necessity. senator james lankford, thank you so much. >> you bet. >> roll tide. >> db sooners. still ahead, we will talk to a republican lawmaker who is calling on the trump administration to release hundreds of migrant children living in a tent city in texas. congress land will hurd was one of the first to visit the shelter. he joins us next on "morning joe." shelter. he joins us next on "morning joe. [ snow crunching ]

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joining us now a member of the house oversight homeland security and intelligence committees, republican congressman will hurd of texas, and the first question goes to jonathan lemire. >> jonathan, don't screw this up. >> okay. >> i will try my best.

congressman, good afternoon. you described the conditions at the border and the tent facility in texas where children are being detained from this family separation policy we have seen imposed by the white house. tell us about what you saw, what needs to change and what prompted this, why are you to sang ri, sir? >> well, first and foremost this was a facility that was started off at around 500 beds, grew to almost 4,000. currently there's 2,800 kids in this tent facility. the problem that i have with this is that this facility is supposed to close by the end of this month on december 31. the contractor wants to leave, but hhs doesn't have a plan to address the 2,800 kids that are in this facility. 1,300 of those kids have an identifying sponsor, the sponsor has done the fingerprinting, provided all the paperwork they

need, these children should be able to be released to the sponsor. there's about 1,100 kids who have an id'd sponsor but are waiting to be told where they're supposed to show up to do fingerprints and provide their information. these kids, their wait time in a facility like this has doubled over the last couple of months and which is unacceptable because we also know that the longer a child is in a facility like this, it increases the chance of long-term mental health issues. >> how old, sir, are these children? what sort of conditions are you seeing? and whose fault is this? what can congress do to force the white house to act? >> well, this is a manifestation of a bad policy. one of the things that we were seeing is this administration was trying to have background checks on every single person that could potentially have lived in a home. this was increasing the length of time to do background checks.

i think some of that earlier was intentionally. now, i will say a positive step happened yesterday. the new head of hhs's orr, that's the office of refugee resettlement which is responsible for these children put out a new directive that said only the senior sponsor has to go through the fingerprinting and background check. we want to make sure when we are releasing these kids that we are releasing them into a safe environment so having some due diligence is important. that should reduce the amount of time that's required to review these children's file, the sponsor's file and make sure we have these kids in the homes of a family member or ultimately a sponsor, but most importantly we need to close down this temporary facility out in torneo. >> it's willie geist. the president is tweeting again that the wall will happen. theres' been some doubt, some people saying he has given up his stance on the wall. you've said about the wall it's

the most expensive and least effective way to do border security. you know what you're talking about, you represent the state of texas, you are at the border as you've just described. what is a better way than a wall and do you believe the president at some point will get this wall? >> and, willie, i appreciate that. you are absolutely right, i have more border than any other member of congress, 820 miles. i spent almost a decade as an undercover officer in the cia chasing bad guys all over the world. a better use of that money would be on technology, what i like to call the smart wall. the technology exists, we can determine the difference between a bunny rabbit and a person, we can track that person with a drone or camera and we can beam all this information we're getting to the men and women in border patrol. this is a fraction of the cost of a 30 foot high concrete structure that takes four hours to penetrate. border patrol's response time is measured in hours to days. if your response time is measured no hours to days a wall is not a physical barrier. this is the solutions we should be focused on.

also there's 2,000 positions in border patrol that are unfilled. we need to be making sure we're focusing on reducing that. this is where the -- our money should be focused on and also if you want to deal with illegal immigration you have to address the root causes and that is violence and lack of economic opportunities in the northern triangle, that's honduras, el salvador and guatemala. we should be talking about how do we strengthen the state department and usaid. i was down in those countries reviewing those programs and seeing how we're helping these governments reduce violence and when you radio he do you say violence you reduce the amount of illegal migration coming this way. >> you are on the homeland security committee. if you demanded or asked today for a listing of all the children, the 2,800 children in this camp, their names, their country of origin, their ages and their parental link, how long would it take for hhs to get it to you? >> great question. i wouldn't -- i couldn't, you know, speculate on that.

i would probably have a better chance of getting it from the folks on the ground down in torneo, but this is -- i just recently this a conversation with senior leaders in hhs, they are committed to making sure kids are put in safe families and reducing the wait times. this is something that i instructed the folks on the ground to ensure that hhs back here in washington, d.c. knew all these categories of folks so that we can try to reduce it and close that facility. >> congressman, you talked about sponsors for these 2800 children for half of them. how many of these children -- how many of the sponsors are parents? where are the 2,800 children's parents? >> so a good majority are parents, i don't have those exact numbers, joe, but also remember there's 2,800 that's just torne. there's 14,000 kids in facilities throughout the united

states of america and that's a pretty large number. now you have all these permanent facilities that are more like homes that you have too many kids in those. this is what created the pressure to need a temporary facility like the tent camp in torne. >> congressman will hurd, thank you. we will continue to follow along with you on this. still ahead, a new found majority house democrats have a lot of big plans for the next term and it's up to the party leadership to decide how that plays out. we will talk with congresswoman katherine clark who serves as vice chair of the democratic caucus. "morning joe" is back in a moment. (chime)

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so next hour we'll be talking, another unbelievable scandal with facebook. we'll talk about it next hour. daif david, you're hearing there may be a developing follow si in syria. >> i have been picking up reports out of turkey that suggest that the u.s. may be about to announce what would be a significant change in american policy removing most of the troops that we have in the northeastern area of syria. it would have been chasing the remnants of isis and trying to stabilize the country as part of what looks like having better political operation with turkey. announcing last night we'll be selling $3.5 billion worth of missiles to turkey. i would pay close attention to the news the rest of the day for

what could be a significant change in the american military situation in syria. it has been a rare military success for the u.s. >> i was just going to bring up for the viewers that didn't know, you have been over there and seen what they have been doing. some how those fighters have been able to not only keep isis in check and also at times to keep the russians in check. the job they performed have been extraordinary. it is disappointing they may be taken out. >> it has been a remarkable story. it is less than 2000 of our special forces troops there. they are living rough, light footprint. they have been very effective in taking down our adversaries. the question that the trump administration has been facing,

how long are they going to stay? a lot of people would like them to stabilize that but it looks as if we are going to be moving away from that troop deployment to some other strategy. >> is isis crushed? >> isis is close to crushed. there is still some. it has been heart fighting the last coupleover weeks i'm told. so, you know, you have to be careful. you don't leave before the fight is over. if we learn one thing it is that. still ahead, many thought it would be a straightforward hearing but then a federal judge accused michael flynn of selling out his country. we'll talk about why sentencing has been delayed and what it means for the ongoing russia probe. plus the new york times investigation that finds facebook may have given tech giants greater access to user data than it had previously disclosed. we are digging into that report.

>> it gave away information and also private messages. >> all of it. >> morning joe will be right back. f it >> morning joe will be right back

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agents might have tricked the national security adviser when they didn't tell him it was a crime. you heard the theer refloated by defenders here. it all blew up today. michael flynn said he is not challenging the circumstances of the interview. he knew lying to feds was a crime. he was not entrapped, that he was guilt dpy. >> as he said on twitter, the sound you hear is a million conspiracy theories exploding. in the case of the united states versus michael t. flynn the president wished him good luck in his showdown with america. he needed it and so might the president as the walls continue to close in around him. welcome to morning joe it is december 19th.

we have president of the council on foreign relations, richard haas. david and joyce vance. >> we have been talk about how the institutions will hold up, they will be just fine. we have talked about we never even gotten really to the judges. the federal judges appointed for life it separates from every other country ever visited, our judicial system. the federal judge whose job was to follow the law. i don't care what the president of the united states is saying.

>> we'll look at this case and he is going to face justice. later elevated really shows what judicial indepence dense means from commentators. >> these people continue do their jobs, judges, the attorney general now in the state of new york who is shutting down the trump foundation. that will be put to bed. all of these people can go about their way. as you mentioned the conspiracy theories, you know who blew them up? general flynn blew them up.

of course i knew lying to the feds was a crime. >> they head him do that over and over again basically repeat several times that he was guilty, that he lied to the fbi. >> yesterday was a terrific day to the united states of america. a series of questions affirmatively answered. sitting there on the bench telling him you cannot come into my courtroom and try to cut a back-door deal getting off with leniency with no jail time and your lawyer is filing a petition claiming you were tricked into

this. you're not going to be able to do that. >> and that was the miscalculation. the president, all of his dupes in the media saying that a man that many generals have said was one of the greatest minds, intel minds was too stupid, didn't know what he was doing when a couple of fbi agents came and talked to him. >> terrible calculation. >> potentially one of many in trump world. let's lay it out for everybody. in a surprise twist yesterday federal district court judge postponed the sentencing for ex white house adviser michael

flynn to allow him to continue his government cooperation several offers to challenge the irks of his fbi interview affirming to the court that he would give up his right do so quote forever. the answering that he was indeed guilty of making false statements. sullivan told quinn you lied to the fbi about three different topics and you made the false statements while you were serving as national security advi adviser. while the judge late ar apologid

he severely criticized the failure to criticize about who paid him. he said it undermines everything this flag stands for. you sold your country out. the court will consider all of that. flynn standing straight looked shaken. his jaw clinched. at another point sullivan asked hypothetically could he have been charged with treason? judge sullivan urged flynn to continue to cooperate. quote i cannot assure you that if you proceed today you will not receive a sentence of incarceration. i also have to tell you if the government says you have concluded with your cooperation you could be incarcerated. >> it seems to me this federal judge who had very little use

for what he considered to be the easy sentence that petraeus got. he said i thought he should have gotten jail time. this is a judge from everything we have heard that takes seriously government service and especially when it comes to national security. if somebody raises their right hand and, you know, they take a note they are going to protect and defend this country and the constitution of the united states this judge takes it deeply personally when he does -- when someone does not. you really saw that yesterday saying my god, you were selected to be national security adviser to help run this country's foreign policy and you're behavering thb behaving this way?

>> she is a cranky judge that takes it very seriously. flynn's lawyers were said to be happy when he was named because he has a history of pushing back on the government when he thinks the government has exceeded its authorities. flynn's lawyers must have hoped they could appeal to his indignation by argues that the fbi agents, fly dpnn hadn't war him that he shouldn't lie to the fbi. the opposite happened. the judge just blew a gasket. the language used was extraordinary. i'm not hiding my distan or disgust. i think he went too far accusing him of treason. he got one thing wrong. >> a couple of things on that, the latter is really a

distinction without indifference. he is talking to foreign entities with a prospect of being donald trump's national security adviser. he is trading his influence. he was especially with russia on his way to the white house. soy don't know that there's a great difference there. the first part, i mean federal judges, i'm sorry. that's what federal judges do. they come in and shake people up. i just -- >> so your basic point is absolutely right. the judges are a wild card in any criminal case. here we just saw it. the table had been set. mueller knew what was going to happen. boom. it's all different because this judge really felt personally and emotionally angry. >> so in your years as a prosecutor i'm interested to

hear your sper specifper specif. -- perspective. as he stood before judge em mitt yesterday it was clear that the judge was considering prison time very seriously and may still be depending what he continues to lend the special council. >> every once in a while a prosecutor runs into a judge that simply is not inclined to follow their sentencing recommendation. it doesn't happen a lot of the time but it does happen. something that i think is really interesting here is that those redacted sentencing memos we have been reading and trying to fill in the blanks behind the black lines on, judge sullivan has been able to read those in their entirety. he has seen the conduct and it looks like the essential problem he has is that he disagrees with the charging decision.

the government charged flyflrks -- flynn with lying to the fbi. judge sullivan seemed to have think he should have been charged with more significant crimes. and still ahead, more on how yesterday's events in the courtroom played out far differently than the wishful thinking. we'll talk about that but first here is a check on the forecast. have you seen the pictures from washington state? they only get two or three tornados a year. this looked like a strong one too which is even more unusual. it was strong enough to do this damage. so a lot of cleaning will be done today. it looks like somewhere around an ef2. let's get into the travel concerns.

huge rainstorm. it is beginning to pour in louisiana and east texas. the reason i'm skipping by today it will cause airport delays and maybe even cancellations. this is orlando to tampa. heavy rain over new york city. up to boston by the noontime. the airports on the northeast will get better friday afternoon and evening. as we look through the severe risk this is tomorrow with storms through florida. about 15 million people at risk. as we head through the holiday forecast saturday looks pretty clear. a new storm comes in through the west. notice everyone east of the rockies is relatively quiet dlu christmas eve. we get a light mix of rain and maybe a little bit of snow in

northern virginia. i don't think it will be a huge ordeal. the worstov of it, friday in th northeast you are going to have issues and delays. we'll give you more as we head towards the holiday. new york city looking pretty this morning. it is warmer than yesterday. you're watching morning joe. we'll be right back. watching m. we'll be right back. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.

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commentators seem today have high hopes for what u.s. judge would do after he took over the case early this year to turn over evidence in documents so the judge could review michael flynn's guilty plea.

>> the parties will appear again. >> he was so angry at the abuse of power back then in the ted stevens case. >> a man that does not intell rate injustice. >> he ordered a special nrgs. he was so -- >> why are you charging this guy with something he didn't do? >> sullivan has a reputation for wanting to know he has done everything by the book. >> it is something he poses to the mueller team of partisans. >> the question is should they be rewarded for breaking the rule or should as a rule an impose a consequence on them? >> he said i'll decide. give me all of it. >> if he finds that they falsified everyday he can throw

out the guilty plea. >> and set him free. >> wow. >> pushing all of your chips to the middle of the table you to be sure you have a good hand. >> that was rough. >> that one came up snake eyes. >> you know, it's one thing if you're working all day and maybe you throw a chair across the gymnasium once in a while but you don't do this to federal judges. i mean, you know, i learned as a lawyer when a federal judge walked by i kept my head down and kept walking. >> where are a lot of those people -- >> some people you just don't poke at and prod. i just got to believe the president and all of the chatter from the trump apond that being

picked up buy flynn's lawyers got this judge a little worked up. >> the judiciary takes the independent incredibly seriously. no doubt they have been under attack by this administration and that individual judges feel that deeply but they have nonetheless gone to work, creating reca created rulings and this is a judge who i don't think appreciated being used as a political football, as a political tool. his decision at the end of the day was granted on his assessment of the law and sentencing regime that was in front of him on this particular case. he didn't play into the hand that the political types expected in this instance. it is interesting that he was the judge in the ted stevens case. the prosecution by thejustice

department that went badly wrong. so the misread here was that he was anti government. in reality it was a judge that simply wants the government to follow the law. that's what he tried to do, to hold everyone to their legal duties. >> i think mike may be correct also. he may have seen some unredacted evidence. he may know more than the rest of us do. anybody involved in this case understands we are -- we know very very little. >> right. >> of what robert mueller has right now. if you're a federal judge and you're seeing a guy walk in this case it might upset you. >> coming up, it's an image that says a lot about what happened yesterday on capitol hill. democrat corey booker embracing after the senate passed.

criminal justice reform along bipartisan lines. we'll talk about that next on morning joe. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ shaquem get in here.

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welcome back. a potential deal to avoid a government shutdown could be materializing as friday's midnight deadline ticks closer. richard she richard said they were working on a resolution that would fund the government until early february. two democratic sources tell us that house and senate democrats are indicating they would not oez po oppose that plan we'll see how that squares out. >> a bipartisan criminal reform bill setting clang to the federal prison system and sentencing covering everything from reduced sentences and early release programs. after a rare united push by

activists and other groups senators passed the first step act last night by a final vote of 87-12. the senate's version of the bill heads to the house where it is expected to pass. president trump tweeted he looks forward to signing it. >> it is something you have had people on the left and right talking about for some time but most specifically they have taken this on and had been really spear heading this and worked with progressive groups. it was to make this happen. it's about to happen. >> let's applaud the congress, 87-12. president trump, this is the one area he has shown real openness to working with democrats on the other side. it took kim kardashian to raise his attention about it. but this doesn't impact that. it is a federal law. we have state and local prisons

that have some sentencing problems and but if you can reduce the difference between crack cocaine and powder cocaine guidelines and all of the things that dogged it is the step in the right direction. >> and one of the most significant gun reforms the trump administration has moved to ban rapid fire bump stocks. it reclassified the device like the ones used in the las vegas massacre making them illegal to sell or own. it is expected to take effect in late march giving them days to surrender or destroy their devices. several gun rights groups have already announced plans to sue. >> it is a very small step towards sane rational gun safety laws. >> yeah. i mean we should be glad that it's there. we'll take it. >> yes. >> we'll certainly take it.

>> the idea that they will go sue and they will probably get some satisfaction and it will jump up and keep ongoing legally but i'll take it. following an upsetting instagram host snl star is receiving an outpouring of support from friends, fans and one other perhaps unlikely source. republican congressman elect dan crenshaw that appeared on snl in november to respond to a less than tasteful joke made by the comedian revealed that he reached out to davidson after seeing the now deleted post. >> i talked to him personally yesterday and talked to him a little bit ability iout it. i think he appreciated hearing from me. everybody has a purpose in this world. god put you here for a reason. it is your job to find that

purpose. you should live that way. you should live that way in seeking out that purpose not expecting it to be given to you by anybody else. >> both of those gentlemen have been through a good bit. pete daifvidson losing his dad on 9/11 but he has been through some tough times hips. it is a great thing to do. coming up on morning joe one of the house members that just joined the democratic leadership katherine clark as the government inches closer to shutting down on friday. morning joe is back there a moment. ♪ ♪ i want to fly like an eagle until i'm free ♪ l i'm free ♪ this is not a bed.

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after a review of documents a report alechlked that for many

years facebook gave more than 150 companies more intruce ifr access to users personal data than it disclosed exempting the business partners from the usual privacy rules. the paper reports that facebook allowed microsoft's bing search engine to see the names of virtually all facebook users friends without consent and gave netflix and spotify the ability to read private messages. gave amazon access to names and contact information through their friends and granted yahoo the ability to do streams of friends posts. last spring mark zuckerberg said we don't sell data to anyone. the paper reports that the pap company for years has struck deals to share the information with dozens of silicon valley

companies and notes hundreds of millions of people a month. last night facebook denied that its partners were able to misuse their users personal data but it didn't address the allegations that it gave those companies far broader access to private data than it previously knowledged. it said it was ending the integration parking lot n integration partnerships. facebook collects more information on more people than any other private corporation in history. joining us now is visiting fellow at the enterprise institute. the cofounder, tiffany cross is with us. cnbc brian sullivan is still with us as well. >> here is another example of facebook lying to its customers.

it is lying to congress. lying to anybody who will listen to them. it happens over and over again. we saw that they tried to cover up information about how they should access in the past and also got angry. sandberg very angry when people were talk about how much of a russia problem they had. >> this is -- how are these people still running the company? >> it comes from internal documents. they talked to them about how they do business. they said they stopped a lot of this activity years ago. these documents show they have it. brian, doesn't this remind us again that if you were on facebook you are a commodity. your data means money to facebook and they are willing to share it with anyone that will help them make money including private messages between you and your friends. the contact information, the

names of your friends, all of these things they said we don't do that anymore. we get it now. it turns out if you read their own documents they are still doing it. >> it all starts with the s word and it's not you know what it is cell. mark zuckerberg said we do not sell data. they are not lying. they give it away. they are not making deals from a ans actual pointover view. they are sharing information so it can be used to market to you. you're exactly right. here is the thing about much of the internet. warren buffet said if you're sitting around a poker table and you can't tell who the sucker is it's you. you are the facebook, us, our data and according to the new york times which was a partner in this transaction as they revealed with facebook notes we,

our data and our private messages are the product. >> so joe, if you're on facebook and facebook is sharing your data, your personal data with amazon, spotify and things like that it's clearly of value it would enhance their advertising refr knew. what do you figure owe you and should they be forced to pay you something? >> they pay nothing and tim, they have been doing this for some time. again, they get caught. >> yes. >> they lie. >> isn't this the cost? >> yes. >> they get caught again. they lie. that's their mo. >> tapd scariest thing to me is the sharing of the private messages. i tell them here is my age. sheer my demographic and my friends and they use some of that to help them target advertising. i've come to understand that's

what facebook is. to think it is read by facebook but somebody they are sharing it with that's what is terrifying. this is the sort of thing i don't think most people will stop using facebook because to answer your question, what they give you is a free service that allows do you connect with people. they remember what siem wife's name is. >> and pick up the phone and call them. >> i know. >> it seems like a safer bet. >> the lawsuit question is a good thing. did they materially deceive and mislead their users? that's where i would wonder. i know there's probably a dozen lawyers. >> yes. that's my question. it has been my question all along, is why isn't this a lawsuit on the part of users when their information is dissimildi disseminated and shared. >> and for profit. >> so where does this go next? >> first i want to say it is

starting to feel like an episodeover blaepisode of black mirror. i think a part of the challenge is the legislative branch is trying to regulate an entindust you don't understand. you do have the congressional black caucus not because of this particular issue but we have seen how facebook and their data has influenced a national election has allowed a foreign adversary to influence our election. we saw how sandberg and allowed that to happen. this is the latest in a blunder. you said they lied to their users. they have also run the federal trade commission. i think they will have a lot of problems. the naacp to opt oucht.

it will spell problems for the industry and for mark zuckerberg. people want to see him step down. >> i agree. hey, brian, tell us about the survey that was taken of 143 business leaders surveyed unanimously not only their views on donald trump but on the economy and where the recession is coming. >> this is fascinating. i think the results are startling for your audience. 75% of the 134 ceos that were surveyed anonymously, 75% said they had to personally apologize for our administration and our government when doing business. >> oh, my god. >> could you imagine you're in a room, there's foreign ceos over there. people are pressing you about your government, the president, why we are doing the things we

are doing. by the way, 48% which is almost half says that we could be in a recession by the end of 2019. i thought you would find that 75% number. you want to do business. >> right. >> you go for maybe a couple of cocktails. you don't want to be apologizing for the actions of the united states government. >> i will say that i don't remember traveling abroad. i'm sure you don't remember traveling abroad in 2003 or 2004 and having people throw ticker tape at you going it is wonderful to have a subject from george w. bush's come to our land. they loved us in france there 2004. >> we have been unpopular in the past. but the numbers when barack obama left office and donald trump took over the numbers overseas trusting the united states fell off a cliff.

they haven't recovered. i can well imagine ceos being asked what is going on or what's happening to trade policy, what's happening to economic policy, what? you know, i think while we had on popularity moments in the past nothing quite like this at least not in my lifetime. >> this is no different. >> yes. >> the market has been obviously chaotic over the past several weeks. what are insiders saying on wall street? where is this going? >> it is the trade war out there. you have the federal reserve meeting. the president has been tweeting about the federal reserve, pressing not to raise rates. the market has kind of gone haywire. even if they did not want to raise rates today don't you think they have to? you do it. no. you do it. somebody, now you're sort of backed into a corner. if the fed doesn't raise rates it looks like they are between a

rock and a hard place right now. we have the trade policy stuff. trade war that dauzed concern. oil dropped 40% because we put sanctions on iran. we added the out it's put for oil and the treasury department has quietly given exemptions. we upped our production because we thought iran was going to come offline. we are quietly giving to celebrating oil around the world. there is too much. that's lot going on. >> a lot going on. >> thank you, brian. >> thank you so much. if you have 50% of ceos think we are heading towards the resection maybe now is not the time to raise rates. i have to believe they don't really care about what donald trump tweets but they do look. it is how volatile things have

been in the market. they have to wonder is now the best time to raise interest rates? >> you have a piece out. it is entitled the trump foundation and abecauuse of pow and privilege. i think this story is in many ways just as big as the other lead headlines of the day because it shows a pattern. >> yeah. >> trump had to shut down the trump foundation by the new york attorney general. the pattern that it shows is that when donald trump has power or privilege and attacks a foundation and has lots of prifr led privilege he uses it for himself. he enriches his companies, advances himself politically. most notably he skipped the debate. he did a fundraiser for veterans an used some of that money, the trump foundation raised the money and spent 300,000 of it right away right before the caucuses.

>> wow. >> that is an abuse of the power and privilege. we see this again and again. his campaign spending money at his own hotels. i'm worried, how is he doing this with the u.s. government? does he see it as his own to do as he pleases? this is what we have to worry about. as a culture we have moved away from caring about the personal lives. it started with bill clinton and continued with trump. we need to worry about whether they are abusing power. no matter what. >> whether you're conserve tifr -- conservative or liberal. >> since the president took officer almost two years ago now it is not what he has done since he took president but things in his private life and things he has had for years which as the washington post reported hasn't had a board meeting in about 19 years. >> right.

>> i'm always surprised at the people that aren't surprised. we have seen how he has run trump university. we saw consistently how he has run the trump foundation. i think it is just the tip of the iceberg. she will take power next year. she said she will be laser focused on donald trump, his family and anyone in his orbit. every part of his business to make sure they are in compliance. i don't think he realizes how the walls are closing there around him. i think we are seeing the beginning. i also think in the mueller investigation there's so much we haven't touched. there is still more about his finances. there is still that meeting with donald trump at trump tower. >> thank you, tim. >> up next -- >> and you're book is coming out, right? >> yes. you can preorder it on amazon. >> great timing. >> it looks really great.

come back to talk to us about it. >> great. up next the second highest ranking woman behind nancy pelosi. katherine clark joins liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. great news for anyone wh- uh uh - i'm the one who delivers the news around here. ♪ liberty mutual has just announced that they can customize your car insurance so that you only pay for what you need. this is phoebe buckley, on location. uh... thanks, phoebe. ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ so shark invented duo clean. while deep cleaning carpets, the added soft brush roll picks up large particles, gives floors a polished look, and fearlessly devours piles. duo clean technology, corded and cord-free.

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for 72 months. not long ago, ronda started here. and then, more jobs began to appear. these techs in a lab. this builder in a hardhat... ...the welders and electricians who do all of that. the diner staffed up 'cause they all needed lunch. teachers... doctors... jobs grew a bunch. what started with one job spread all around. because each job in energy creates many more in this town. energy lives here. joining us now vice chair of the democratic caucus, congresswoman katherine lark.

casey hunt is back as well. hey, i know another katherine clark. >> score boro. exactly. >> great name. thank you for being with us. a lot to do between now and january 3rd. what is the thing the democrats want to accomplish in the majority? >> the first bill we're going to do hr-1 is going to be looking at how we protect the vote. when we see what happened in the midterms, how what is continuing to unfold in north carolina, we want to send a clear message we want to get dark money out of politics and we want to make sure every american has that right to vote protected. so that's going to be our first bill. >> speaking of the north carolina situation, do you expect another vote there? or will democrats recognize the republicans? >> we are working to make sure we have a new special election in that race.

the fraud that we are seeing that is unfolding is extremely concerning, that this man was taking ballots and potentially changing them, or discarding them. we want to make sure dan mccready has a fair shot at this race and we're on the ground and going to be pushing for a special election. >> let's send it to kasie hunt. you've got the next question. >> congresswoman, good to see you. i want to ask you about a little turn of interm politicking. but alexandria oscasio-cortez newly minted in your caucus is talking about being unhappy hakeem jeffries, a longtime new york congresswoman, is going to be the chair of the caucus and is suggesting she might chat everything h -- challenge him. do you have any advice for the caucus and for miss oscasio-cortez as she tries to operate inside the house

democratic caucus? >> you know, there are always going to be rumors about campaigns in the future. but i can tell you the reason i ran for vice chair of this caucus and what i'm seeing is there's great unity. it's time for this caucus to get to work for the american people. and as i travel the country in the midterms, making sure that we elected democrats, we were able to see and talk to voters and what they're concerned about is we put the challenges facing american family back on the table. and the leading issue i heard about was health care. so that is what our caucus is focused on and that is what we are going to work to do, is put the american family voices back on the table in congress. >> congresswoman, as you know, there are progressives who are licking their chops, the fact all are back in power now and you control the house and they're out for blood when it comes to president trump

politically. jerry najherer will run the committee, how aggressive should you be in the pursuit of the president and some people are saying we want an impeachment vote as soon as we can get one. what is your view on that? >> i can tell you we're focused on just what i was talking to kasie about, making sure we're setting a bold agenda and actually getting it done, delivering results for american families. but accountability is part of the picture and it's part of our ko constitutional obligation that we do have a role in oversight. i think part of what we saw unfold in the flynn sentencing yesterday was i know i felt a bit of relief that we saw the judicial branch standing up and holding the actions of general flynn to accountability to the american people. and we have been missing that balance in this chaos, and with a republican leadership, that is

not committed to transparency or accountability. so i think we are going to use these committees, we are going to put oversight in our constitutional role back into committee hearings and we will see where the facts lead us when it comes to impeachment. >> we also may be just a day or two from a government shutdown. where should democrats go in terms of giving the president money he's asking for, for this border wall for more security? what are the odds you think the government will be run and running by the end of the week? >> this is completely up to the republicans who still control the house, the senate and the white house. and the wall is bad policy. it's just bad policy. we know this. and so for the president to have a tantrum and saying he would shut down government and ironically would deny pay to those who would patrol our

borders, to tsa as we're going into the holiday travel season, is really sort discouraging, you know. wh when my children were young and they were having that kind of tantrum, i would make sure they have a snack and a nap. but this is a 72-year-old president of the united states. >> he does it now. >> that's an issue. >> that's one issue. but this fundamentally the wall is the wrong way to go. we used to fortify cancels because that was our best technology. we all want securitieed borders we differ very much how to get there. >> congresswoman katherine clark, thank you. >> chinese came up with a wall. >> yeah. nobody wants that. >> listen, thank you very much, and good luck to you. busy season. >> and that is near your district? >> nearby. >> we'll wrap up the day.

it's been quite a day in news and much more to come as we follow the facts here on msnbc. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> joe, mika, happy holidays. this morning, the president's not very good day. his adviser asks for and gets a postpone pt of his sentencing after the judge said he was disgusted by michael flipynn's lies and flynn sold out his country. the trump administration forced to shut down after shocking compatibility problems. and facebook was giving some of the biggest names in tech access to your personal data, even after the social network said it had stopped sharing your information. >> every piece of content that you share on facebook you own and