one more thing tonight. the latest episode of our news series mavericks with ari melber is out. i get to speak with "transparent" creator and why she says the kardashians are feminist icons. i hope you check it out at msnbc.com/mavericks. that's our show. "hardball" starts now. stone cold. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we have breaking news tonight from the washington post. this suggests special counsel robert mueller may have just taken a big step in ip be dieting roger stone. special counsel robert mueller asked the house intelligence committee this friday for an official transcript of roger

stone's testimony. as the post points out the special counsel's office has had access to an unofficial copy of stone's closed door september 2017 interview, however, mueller's request of the official copy signals the special counsel could now be closing in on an indictment several legal experts are saying. prosecutors are required to have a certified copy of the transcript to show that a witness lied. stone has given varying explanations about he appeared to have prior knowledge of the russian hacked e-mails which were released by wikileaks to inflect maximum damage on hillary clinton during the 2016 election. referring to clinton's campaign chair, whose e-mails had been hacked, stone most famously hinted at, quote, podesta's time in the barrel later saying, there was a pay load coming just two days before podesta's e-mails werereleased. however, stone has denied having any knowledge of the release of the hacked e-mails.

joining me is richard bloomenthal. charlie seis and malcolm nance. senator, there's no doubt that the master of dark arts in the trump world is roger stone, and he's also been his closest political advisor going back to when he first teased about running for president 20 years ago. roger was always sitting next to him. he's been with them and he's a dark arts guy and he loved the idea that he could predict the wikileaks thing was coming out from the russians ahead of time and now it looks like it might be criminal. >> and this indictment of roger stone would be a bombshell because he has been such a close advisor on dirty tricks, dark arts. >> that's what he does. >> and that's his expertise, but it also implicates others potentially in the trump

organization like donald trump jr. because his contacts with wikileaks, messaging with wikileaks by donald trump jr. also could be involved in this indictment. so the roger stone connection here, like spokes on a wheel, could be very, very far reaching. >> malcolm, talking about this in the back alleys. it sounds like dick cheney talking here, back alley stuff, but it is the world in which roger lives. he was nixon's guy. he's a smart as hell guy. he does the tricks of politics which are sometimes not so nice. >> well, you're absolutely right, but i think he may have bit off more than he can chew here. you know, bob mueller's a pretty smart guy himself and i think what he's going to do here is he is going to build a cage for roger stone to jump into and then try to lie his way out of it. and he's going to start it off with an indictment. and, you know, i think this tier of people who are going to be

indicted next are going to be some very surprising characters. i believe julian assange himself and perhaps the wikileaks organization will be indicted at the exact same time. they are the bridge from the russians to the trump campaign through this political dirty tricks team that seem to have been led by roger stone. >> yamish, what do you think mueller is after? he's always after something from these guys. >> i think if you think about the way that he's done these in the past, it seems as though he's building this group of people that he's indicting to get at bigger fish. we've kind of all realized or always felt like robert mueller was going to go after someone big. i think there's a growing evidence that that person's last name is going to be trump. we're not sure if the president himself will be indicted but i think more and more when we see the president being paranoid, angry, frustrated, he's thinking about his children and thinking specifically donald trump jr. >> that's my religion. that's what's coming next. one key question is whether mueller can show that he knew

about the hacked e-mails before the release. we know he was in touch with jerome corsi who suggested to stone in an e-mail that he knew what wikileaks planned to do. in one e-mail to stone corsi said word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. one shortly after i'm back. second in october. impact planned to be very damaging. that's spy tal talk. he was talking to trump frequently during the campaign. here it goes. >> how often do you talk to him? >> from time to time. i mean, not -- not on a daily basis but from time to time. >> when was the last time you talked to him? >> saturday. >> we talk from time to time. i decline to characterize the content of those conversations. >> i spoke to donald trump yesterday. he's in good spirits. >> can you divulge to us, roger, and i respectfully ask this question, some of those middle of the night phone conversations you had with mr. trump?

>> you know, i really can't, and it's been my policy not to discuss personal conversations with him otherwise they'll end in all honesty. >> charlie, he's been doing this striptease for years. i'm really close to the guy, we're very intimate, we talk at all hours of the night but i'm not talking to you about what we're talking about. he always wants to be seen as tight with the guy. >> what a bunch of misfit toys. for donald trump, if you boil down to the essence of trumpism, you have roger stone, who is the notorious dirty trickster, chronic liar at the center of american politics. now donald trump who's surrounded himself with all of these bad actors, people like roger stone, is going to become enmeshed in all of their lives. what's really striking is just the momentum of this investigation. all the elements, all of the threads seem to be coming together whether it is -- whether it is -- >> i like that fact because i thought the "access hollywood" quote was trump. >> sure. >> and he's proven that's who he

is, senator. that's who he is. that's led into this whole thing with the payoffs of the two women, the alleged affairs. the whole thing ties together. but the idea that his dream was to have roy cohn, notorious joe mccarthy fire brand and fixer, whatever, and then they have nixon's guy, he wanted joe mccarthy's worst guy and he wanted nixon's worst guy and he went out there and recruited them. that's the team he put together as you pointed out, charlie. >> as a prosecutor, i see this case as one of perjury to the congressional committee and as a member of congress, of course, i know how deeply offended my colleagues would be by this kind of perjury, but it's likely to be accompanied by other potential charges because, remember, wikileaks has been called by none other than secretary of state pompeo a hostile foreign intelligence service. so for roger stone to be working with them -- >> our friend in the embassy. who's that? it's assange. but who he's kidding with that spy talk, yamish?

>> as a reporter what i've always been struck by is when you think about the level -- the non-level of complexity here. you read these e-mails and it's very easy to figure out who they're talking to. as someone who covered the trump campaign, we have to remember president trump wasn't someone who could get an a team, he couldn't get a b team, he was on c, d, e. people saw his candidacy as a joke and knew his reputation as someone who wasn't trustworthy. he got these misfit toys by remembering the best toys didn't want to play. >> it is simpler than you would think. you bring in roger stone, you get this sort of thing. you know, what is russia about? was it about the moscow project? was it about the guy who is doing deals because he thinks it's more likely he's going to do a deal with putin for the moscow project than it is for being elected president of the united states. >> all people around trump, one point is all people around him,

including the kid, were dying to bring something to dad to show him we can win. this is the hail mary. we heard something from the russian lawyer woman. i can get you this, i can get you roger stone. we can screw the dnc and john podesta, all the hillary people. i can do this. all this hail mary person. they come to him with these chalices. there's a bigger development. breaking today, trump's attempt to cut a real estate deal in russia while he was going after the presidency. cnn has attained a signed version, a signed version of the letter of intent that trump endorsed to pursue that deal with the trump tower in moscow. trump's signature on that document which is dated october 28th, 2015, appears to contradict -- it does. why are we saying appears. he said in that interview, there was a letter of intent to go forward but no one signed it. well, guess who signed it? donald trump. confronted today with that document bearing trump's signature giuliani told the "new

york daily news," of course trump signed it but he added that the letter of intent was bull blank because it didn't go anywhere. all the time the president is running for office we find out now for a whole year he's working on this project to have the big trump tower over there. all the time he's working to change the republican platform. you know, all the time he wants to change the sanctions against the bank that's going to finance this tower over there. it's altogether, but the only thing, senator, he told the american voter, the trumper out there, was i want to be president. all this other stuff was under -- in the -- under the table. >> he lied to the american people. he defrauded american voters and the one who knew best about this fraud was vladimir putin because he knew about that signed letter of intent. he knew about those negotiations by michael cohen right through the end of 2016 up until the election. and that's why donald trump essentially was so compromised. and that's why follow the money

because for donald trump, it really is all about the money. >> troy, how do you figure the chicken and the egg question. was he gunning for president to build up the business or was he making some money on the way to the presidency or was it all -- was it he never thought he would be elected and he was thinking about the money. >> i do think he never thought he was going to be elected president. this was all a marketing thing for him. it totally got out of hand. we've all been focused on did they have compromising material. maybe it was something as simple as this hotel project because he thinks this is a way to open the door to those deals. >> are you sure it wasn't -- >> i'm not sure about anything, no. this one is so obvious. >> at the same time trump was trying to cut a deal to get that tower up in moscow, he was publicly promising a better relationship with russia with the voters, including with vladimir putin who had control over whether trump's project went forward. at the same time as you said, senator, vladimir who wants to

be a czar now knew all about the letter of intent that trump had signed, all of the time he's watching him throw these bouquets at him across the world. anyway, let's take a look. >> and i would get along with russia and i'll get along with putin. he will respect us. that's all we want. we're not looking for trouble. >> i believe we will have a very good relationship with russia. i believe that i will have a very good relationship with putin. >> i don't like the way obama treats putin. >> person who kills journalists, political opponents and -- >> invades countries. >> and invades countries. obviously that would be a concern, would it not? >> he's running this country and at least he's a leader, you know, unlike what we have in this country. >> i think putin has been a strong leader. >> wouldn't it be nice if actually we could get along with russia? >> that all sounded pretty good except that we didn't know he had a signed contract to build a tower that only putin could be the counter signer for.

malcolm, we should have known that. >> yeah, we should have known it. it's ridiculous that we're even discussing it. that document is going to be explosive. that is going to be the piece of paper that is going to be like the -- you know, the signed contract in major andre's boot when benedict arnold tried to sell west point. that tells us that the -- that a presumptive candidate who wanted to be president of the united states had been cutting secret deals with an american -- with an american adversary for money and then hid that away from the nation and he was going to profit from it and it explains all of his behaviors towards vladimir putin. vladimir putin, on the other hand, is a spy master who was going to manipulate this man to the nth degree. his ego, his personality with his money and then manipulate him when he became president of the united states. that right there, you know, if i was a judge, i'd be -- start

using the t word. >> you know what happened to colonel andre. >> he was hanged by washington. they wouldn't even let him get shot. what's going to happen to these guys? putin is going to walk. he's going to be a czar as long as we live. he's going to be around forever. trump, is he going to pay for this one? what's more dangerous, roger stone going to apparently prison perhaps or the fact that it's clear that trump all the time he was running for president had a deal signed? >> i think in some ways the most dangerous threat to donald trump is the trump foundation because here there were clear tax frauds known to donald trump. there was a violation of -- >> that's new york state, too. that's new york state. >> and it could be new york state. >> no pardon. nk >> and i don't think the governor of the state of new york is going to pardon donald trump. >> i love that quarter million water fountain out in front --

>> $7 for the boy scouts for donald trump jr. >> unbelievable. >> or the $30,000 -- >> wait until we get to the next block. it's all about how he used this foundation to pay for everything he wanted. thank you so much. nance, thank you so much. coming up, donald trump railed today on twitter against the decision the senator mentioned to close his namesake charitable foundation after the new york attorney general's office laid out what it called a shocking pattern of illegality. what does this mean for trump's children? they had their names used, their signatures used in a very -- well, a disgusting operation to steal people's money. the destruction of the republican party coming up tonight. what happened to the party of free trade, fiscal responsibility and international order? and it's been a week of surrender for this president? trump hired a person he called a horrible person and he dissolved the trump foundation and seems

to be giving up on his wall. let me finish tonight with the president's decision to remove a couple,0 thousand troops from syria. this is "hardball" where the action is. i just got my cashback match,

is this for real? yep. we match all the cash back new cardmembers earn at the end of their first year, automatically. whoo! i got my money! hard to contain yourself, isn't it? uh huh! let it go! whoo! get a dollar-for-dollar match at the end of your first year. only from discover. hi. maria ramirez! mom! maria! maria ramirez... mcdonald's is committing 150 million dollars in tuition assistance, education, and career advising programs...

prof: maria ramirez mom and dad: maria ramirez!!! to help more employees achieve their dreams.

welcome back to "hardball." earlier this morning president trump blasted the decision to close his charitable foundation. the donald j. trump charitable foundation agreed to shut down yesterday as part of an ongoing lawsuit alleging what the new york state attorney general calls a shocking pattern of illegality. the lawsuit accuses the president and members of his family of using the foundation as a person tax exempt slush fund used to pay off personal debts and promote his political campaigns. according to the court, president trump helped give various donations to the lead up of the iowa caucuses in an

attempt to influence iowa voters. he used this to pay off personal debt and it's against the law for them to use the funds to benefit any member and any political campaign. that's obvious. the foundation's board including donald trump jr., eric trump and ivanka trump failed to provide its legally mandated oversight. they used the names. the board seeded control of glands to the campaign -- grants to the campaign. it mate them look charitable and increased the candidate's profile. if yesterday's dissolution to the foundation, two trump entities, trump university has been shut down due to illegal activities. so much for the trump university, so much for trump foundation. six trump entities are currently

under investigation. i'm joined by ted low of california and a member of the house judiciary committee and david farenthal who exposed the president's foundation. congressman, i want to ask you about this because there's so much fishy about this. using the candidate -- the president's family names, putting the kids' names up there, are they just used? is there any evidence you've got that this was a legitimate foundation? >> not at all and i'm a former prosecutor. i can tell you that the misconduct that donald trump and his children engaged in with regards to trump foundation aren't just civil violations, they look like actual crimes. you've got tax evasion, tax fraud, you have criminal campaign finance violations. one reason michael cohen is going to prison because of a felony violation of campaign finance laws. any amount over 25,000 counts as a felony. i think there's some serious legal liability for the president and his children in this case.

>> david, according to the state lawsuit by the ag of new york, the foundation engaged in a number of prohibited self-serving transactions which directly benefitted trump and his family. according to the filing in 2007, donald trump used the foundation to pay a $100,000 citation in mar-a-lago because the flag pole was too high. they spent $10,000 on a portrait of him that hangs in the doral resort. and finally according to the washington post donald trump made a roughly $270,000 gift to help restore a fountain that happened to be next door to his plaza hotel back in '89. was anybody watching this piggy bank? >> a lot of people were supposed to be watching. the trump kids who were on the foundation's board were supposed to be looking out for the money but in effect no one was watching. the irs system, the irs oversees charities. they rely on you to self-report.

for all these years trump reported he did everything right. >> why would he think it was legitimate to say this fountain next door. everybody knows you have something next to your hotel, you improve the value of the hotel. nice, big fountain restored, that's a lot of money. >> right. the biggest gift in the history of the trump foundation, 264,000 improved the view outside of his foundation. >> i have a theory that trump will buckle when his kids are in danger. they won't go to the pen, or inside, the can. he put their names on it, eric, donald jr. and ivanka. why did he put their names on this foundation? >> i can't tell you why. >> did they do anything? >> no, they did nothing. the board they were on hadn't met before 1999 which was before they were on the board. >> was this set up as a slush fund to pay his bills? >> i don't think it was set up that way. he used it. he saw this as another checkbook. if he had to pay money for another charity, use the

charity. >> when he got hit with the flag pole too high down in mar-a-lago, there's no way he thought of that as a charitable contribution, right? can he go into court and say -- no, i had to pay an expense because my flag pole is too high. >> the point is it was mar-a-lago's settlement. it was mar-a-lago's expense, a for profit club. instead of the for profit club paying for the thing it had done, here's the charity to save donald trump's business some money. >> mr. lieu, what can congress do besides expose? what do you do next? where is this all going to end? can you kick him out of the presidency over this? >> well, democrats do get subpoena power in january and by the way let me also thank david for ekts posing this in the first place and the washington post. that's why we have all of these investigations and the prosecution going on. so one thing i think that the public should take away from this is it may be hard for some people to think that donald trump engaged in criminal

behavior in leap to carry over into 2016 that trump may have violated all sorts of other laws to help himself and enrich himself. >> could this be an article of impeachment? >> it could. but it's one of our gravest responsibilities in congress. it should never be our first option. we need to wait for special counsel mueller's investigation to conclude. >> thank you so much. thank you congressman ted lieu and david, a great reporter. crashing the party. remember when republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility, of free trade, of international order and standing by our allies? remember that republican party? you have to go back to eisenhower or ragan. in the age of trump those things seem to be a thing of the past. this is "hardball" where the action is. the hard work you put into lowering your

very high triglycerides with diet and exercise deserves the hard work that went into the science behind vascepa. prescription vascepa. vascepa, along with diet and exercise, has proven results in multiple clinical trials. vascepa looks different because it is different. over a decade of extensive research and development achieved proven results. that's the prescription power of vascepa. vascepa is not right for everyone. do not take vascepa if you are allergic to icosapent ethyl or any inactive ingredient in vascepa. tell your doctor if you are allergic to fish, have liver problems or other medical conditions and about any medications you take, especially those that may affect blood clotting.

2.3% of patients reported joint pain. ask your doctor about what the science behind prescription vascepa can mean to you. amarin thanks the clinicians and patients who participated in the vascepa clinical trials. kayla: our dad was in the hospital. josh: because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. kayla: do you know how hard it is to smoke in a hospital? by the time we could, we were like... what are we doing? kayla: it was time for nicodermcq. the nicodermcq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. and doubles your chances of quitting. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how.

i leave here as convinced i was at the start that we face no challenge that can be overcome by putting pen to paper on good, sound policy. by addressing head on the problems of the day. the state of politics though is another question. and, frankly, that's one i don't have an answer for. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was outgoing republican house speaker paul ryan in his farewell address today. once viewed as a future star, a candidate for vice president.

he became emblematic of president trump's takeover of the gop. today he painted a rosie picture of his party's accomplishments as speaker. >> three years ago when we last gathered in this hall we began a great journey to set our nation on a better path, to move our economy from stagnation to growth, to restore our military might, and we have kept our promises. this house is the most productive we have had in at least a generation. >> but ryan who had spent much of the past two years shrugging off president trump's controversies lamented what he called broken politics. >> why do we insist on fighting one another so bitterly? this kind of politics starts from a place of outrage and then seeks to tear us down from there. so, key question, how do we get back to aspiration and

inclusion? we start with humility and then we seek to build on that. i don't know the answer to that. >> i'm joined now by retiring republican congressman ryan costello. i get nothing from that guy. i don't understand why he's playing. he's the leader of the house in representatives. he's the leader. he's the leading politician in your party in the house. how can he blame politics? >> well, i think he's outlining the political culture and how difficult it is to penetrate ideas in an age where the president's tweet and the back and forth between trump and the left makes it very difficult for a center right politician to advocate in the manner that we get focused on issues. look, i've supported paul. i think he's done a very good job as speaker and probably the trickiest political environment for a republican speaker with a republican president in quite some time. >> let's talk about the republican party you joined.

free trade, fiscal responsibility, intermags nal ord order. your party supported tpp. george bush sr. brought about nafta and now you have a president who's not a free trader at all and nobody seems to chal tlaeng in your party. your thoughts? >> i push back. we do challenge it. you see a lot of people challenge it. you've heard a lot of criticism for this essential -- essentially a bailout of industries who are being damaged by the president's trade policy. so there's been a lot of that out there. of all the issues where you have seen push back against the president, i think you've seen more push back on the tariffs issue than anything else. the siecond issue, chris, national security, i and some others were very critical of his conduct at nato and equivilizing

putin's levels. those are the two issues where i think the president has really up ended what i would call your father's republican party or my father's republican party. and we are struggling, to be clear, how to wrestle with that, how to get beyond that, how to be clear the kind of party we are or we're going to lose those kind of voters or you're going to see an independent movement rise up because of it. >> speaker ryan talked about areas where they fell short, immigration reform, addressing the debt and overhauling federal programs like medicare and social security. here he goes. >> i acknowledge plainly that my ambitions for entitlement reforms have outpaced the political reality and i consider this our greatest unfinished business. >> first of all he went out there and said how great it was to pass this trillion and a half dollar tax cut and he said it's too bad we haven't been able to deal with the debt. well, they're related. >> the tax cut projections, if

you accept static scoring, would be the 1.5 trillion. i actually do not think that we will have a deficit or debt created out of the tax bill over a ten-year period of time. going into 2019 more companies are going to be hiring employees. we have the tightest labor market in a couple of decades and you're seeing wages rise. he did in paul's defense it in 2017 go to the senate majority leader and the president and say, i want to do entitlement reforms and there was significant push back not just from senate leadership and the president but also from house republicans. i think paul has stayed true to his word, but as speaker he can only do so much. if he doesn't have the votes, you're not going to see us move forward on entitlement reform. on immigration, last point, we had a real chance to not have to deal with this border wall debacle on the cr. we had a full border wall funding with permanent daca relier relief and fixes that the far right and democrats were

unwilling to come to the table and vote for. to me in my four years in congress that was the biggest failure. that was the biggest disappointment to me, not getting an inimmigration bill done. i think 75% of the country agrees with 90% of the stuff. >> u.s. congressman, thank you very much. not a lot of winning for president trump. what a bad week he's had. his new chief of staff once called him a horrible person. his so-called charitable foundation is dissolving and his much valued border wall is crumbling before it got built. the week is only half finished. three big surrenders. you're watching "hardball."

i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix. smoking. it dictates your day. i didn't like something having control over me. i wanted to stop. the thing is i didn't know how. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could quit.

when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if you have any of these. tell your healthcare provider if you've had depression or other mental health problems. decrease alcohol use while taking chantix. use caution when driving or operating machinery. the most common side effect is nausea. for me chantix worked.boom. end of story. talk to your doctor about chantix.

we as a country don't win anymore, but we're going to win a lot. we're going to win so much. you're going to get so sick and tired of winning.

>> well, there hasn't been a lot of winning however, lately. in fact, over the past week president trump caved on a number of fronts. he gave up on finding a permanent replacement for his next chief of staff after his two top choices, nick ayers and chris christie turned him down flat. trump announced mick mulvaney to be his acting chief of staff. he once called him a terrible human being. trump tweeted that his foundation has done great work and given away a lot of money. they agreed to shut down the operations after prosecutors said it exhibited a shocking pattern of illegality. the senate poised to pass a continuing resolution to keep the government going without giving trump the $5 billion for the border wall. last week he said it was funding for the border wall or bust. >> yes, if we don't get what we want one way or the other, whether it's through you, through military, through

anything you want to call, i will shut down the government. >> okay. >> so tonight "hardball" roundtable, jennifer gibbs, jamal simmons democratic strategist. i get the sense that for whatever reason trump doesn't want to fight this. he can't win the court fight. he can complain about it but he can't win it. the wall, he's not going to get the money. what else? the foundation is dead. >> he's headed to mar-a-lago for the holidays. i think that there's a -- >> what happened to that fight we saw with chuck schumer sitting in the white house? >> donald trump cares a whole lot about the public relations campaign that comes with being president and what his supporters think he's doing and he was showing his supporters that he was willing to fight. he doesn't have to end the fight, he just had to say that he's willing to do so. >> is this some sort of pick and roll play like in basketball and something? then you roll around the back? i don't know what the right play -- this was a play then in other words? he pretended he was going to

fight for the cameras, brought the cameras in, show his fighting spirit and then rolled. >> we'll see what happens. i don't think it's over with. >> you think he's going to get his 5 billion for the wall? >> i think -- >> you do? >> no, i was repeating the question. trying to be thoughtful. you but i do think to characterize the entire week as a loss -- >> the family foundation found to be a criminal operation. >> i was going to the chief of staff just to be clear in terms of talk about it. >> he didn't get the guy he wanted. >> that's what's going to pour in. there are reports of people who received offers that aren't true. mick mulvaney -- >> he was looking for heavy weights like berman. he was going to get washington experts. >> i don't think it's fair to -- >> he didn't get a cowboy or heavy weight. >> he has somebody that has a greed lagsship with -- >> he's moonlighting in the job. >> he won't take the job for longer than some temporary

period of time. >> the president of the united states says i'm giving you the best job i have to give, please. i'll give you a couple of months. >> i've never heard of a situation where people don't want the white house chief of staff. it's the number one job in washington to be the white house chief of staff. >> better than vp. >> it is. i remember times in the clinton administration, people fight to be white house chief of staff. i think the president's a paper tiger and i think he got caught in the shredder when the wheels of justice and the wheels of congress began to grind against him. he just doesn't know how to deal in that environment. >> j.j., how long can he tease on the wall? at some point people ask for pictures of it. >> he keeps showing the prototypes that they built on the border. a little piece. we have a little piece. i think that he's trying to make the case that there's wall there and that it's building. how long does he -- does he argue? in a few weeks democrats control the house. >> i know them all. in '50s you used to get it in a

hat. you would give them a plastic hat. they would go to the store and get the real one. he keeps giving people -- jamal, he keeps giving people the plastic hat and he keeps saying, there's a big stetson hat. >> here's the thing. the voters don't care. ultimately donald trump was elected for one reason, be the guardian of 1950s white america frankly. i think those people who want him to do that, they trust him on that. he's their warrior and they don't care about anything else that happens because they trust the guy. >> i disagree with that. i think it is going to be an issue if the wall is not built. it was the number one promise in the republican primaries. >> how's he going to do it with a democratic house? >> it's going to be a challenge. the mulvaney pick if he plays that role on a permanent basis is a solid one. he has a good relationship and it gives them the ability to negotiate. >> you think he's going to get the wall? >> i think it gives him a better chance. >> from nancy pelosi? >> talk character.

>> he got criminal justice reform. >> this isn't a church but let's talk character. he puts together a foundation, charitable foundation. he gets votes out in iowa. he builds a big fountain. he pays the penalty for having too high a flag pole at mar-a-lago. it has nothing to do with charitable purposes but he puts his kids' names all through it. what do you make of a guy who does that? >> i think the way that we view the trump foundation as some just slush fund probably doesn't acknowledge the way trump views the trump foundation. >> so he felt sorry for the lousy shape of the fountain next to the plaza so he gives it a quarter million. >> he thought he was doing good things. he didn't think he was engaged in some type of activity that the new york attorney general describes as criminal. i think he thought he was doing what rich people with money to throw at fountains do and they put his name on it.

>> three coins in a fountain. there is one bit of good news in the president. in a rare moment of border patrolship labipartisanship the passed a bill. 87-12. it will save the taxpayers money. jarrod kushner is getting praise from across the board. >> jared kushner played a key role in this. i called him last night and thanked him. he did more to line up republicans and the right on this issue than anyone else and he deserves credit for it. >> chris wilson, what good is it doing and for whom? >> i think the key thing here, what this does, it gives a blueprint for the next couple of years. that's what i was trying to refer to when i was talking about being able to work together and bring mulvaney in. for this it does show what can be done. i think it's pretty remarkable that something that does lend itself to campaign attacks on both sides, we've got that sort of a vote. and the fact that kushner played

a role is important. hopefully it gives us the opportunity to see how congress can come together, work together on an issue that was clearly a problem that both sides agreed on and accomplished something. >> i think this is a great stark contrast to the wall which is this is a policy position that years have been spent changing the minds of americans and of their elected officials to get such overwhelming support. >> three strikes you're out and stuff like that. >> he doesn't have -- he's not built that type of consensus on the wall. it will always be divisive. >> jamal, usually republicans complain they have too many good tv sets in prison, could they have bar bells they shouldn't have. they're not in there to make lighter sentences is not a big republican dream. >> that was true when they were mostly black and brown people from the cities that are going to jail. i think in the last few years, there are a lot of suburbanites, rural kids who are getting caught up in it and going to prisons. now republicans are starting to figure out maybe we need to find a way to do something else other than house people in jail. frankly, it's also costing a lot

of money. if you have some budget problems, you want to give away tax cuts, you cut back on something. maybe prison is something. >> shaw shank, once you paid your price and what is served by 30 and 40 years? jamal? >> i would say nothing. i would say especially for someone who's a non-violent offender. paul butler who comes on this network a lot talks about restorative justice. there are other things to do with people who have had a front in the criminal justice system other than house them for a bunch of years. >> republicans have come a long way from willey horton. >> it's important to look at who led the charge on this for republicans. this wasn't a moderate -- this came from the right. this was one of the big leaders, ken kuchinelli, the koch foundation. this was people from the conservative side -- >> why do they care about prisoner reform? >> work force.

>> it has to do with work force. >> philosophical. >> their main concern is money. >> suburban kids are getting picked up. >> this is not a -- an overnight policy change. this isn't a simple one and one and we're going to get some votes on it. a lot of minds got changed. >> that's right. >> let's talk more about it in the weeks ahead. we want to understand. the roundtable is sticking with us. the south carolina republican party is considering canceling outright its 2020 primary so they can help trump. you're watching "hardball." (loud) holy moley that's a lot of miles!!! shhhhh! ♪ what's in your wallet? shhhhh!

i've always been amazed and still going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin... i want that too. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? reeling in a nice one. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden sign of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all is one that brings us together. the final days of wish list are here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment. only at your lincoln dealer. life isn't a straight line. things happen. and sometimes you can find yourself heading in a new direction. but at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected with retirement planning and advice for what you need today

and tomorrow. because when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. a partner who makes sure every step is clear, tand, our adulte children are here. so, we save by using tide. which means we use less. three generations of clothes cleaned in one wash. those are moms. anybody seen my pants? nothing cleans better. put those on dad! it's got to be tide. 'tand in your garage,son a brand new john deere. that's not a mirage. with 60 months financing at 0%, say "happy holidays" to money well spent. if additional offers are what you desire, visit your john deere dealer before they expire. now, start up your engines and drive out of sight. new john deere equipment for all and to all a good night. see your john deere dealer today to discover more great deals and special financing offers. new year, new deere.

welcome back too "hardball." as president trump prepares for his 2020 re-election campaign, one state could make it a little easier for the president to win his nomination. republican party in south carolina has reportedly considering whether to cancel, cancel its presidential primary in a move that would protect the president from any primary challenger. they told the washington examiner they would do what's in the president's best interest. this isn't the first time the south carolina gop has skipped their presidential primary. they did it in 2004 when president george w. bush was running for re-election. ginger, what do you make about this? >> if there's a primary challenge, especially from someone like governor kasich, the president might be hoping for a south carolina primary so

he could put up big numbers. it meeting ill advised to cancel a primary when you enjoy a majority there. >> he won it last time. you had rubio coming in second, cruz came in third. kasich -- >> is rubio running again? i keep hearing a whisper that he's going to take on trump. >> i don't think he'll have -- >> it might give him an excuse to run again? he's not hawkish? >> south carolina, in terms of the significant challenge, there won't be one in today's environment. you may have john kasich, jeff flake, it will be irrelevant. >> jamal, looking across the aisle, what do you see? >> donald trump is the most conservative candidate and south carolina is one of the most conservative states. remember, this is the trump

party. he owns this party lock, stock and barrel. i just don't see how somebody else comes through a primary against him. what they could do though is ding him up so that the democrats can have a pool of voters to go after. that might be helpful. >> the democrats have to do their own building of party between now and two years. they have to win the hard progressive left and can pull in the center and grab some trumpies back. >> the democrats need somebody to love. that's the question. fall in love. >> i'm a fall in love kind of guy. >> if you're a donald trump voter, you have to get them to stay home. >> too many obamas. thank you all. when we return, the president's decision to remove troops from syria. i think you'll be surprised by my commentary. you're watching "hardball."

kayla: our dad was in the hospital. josh: because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. kayla: do you know how hard it is to smoke in a hospital? by the time we could, we were like... what are we doing? kayla: it was time for nicodermcq. the nicodermcq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. and doubles your chances of quitting. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how.

let me finish tonight with the president's decision to remove the 2,000 troops from syria. it has sounded all kinds of alarms from the country's brigade of armchair hawks, those that oppose military interventions beginning with the lies from dick cheney about nuclear weapons and through all of the neoconservative mischief that led president george bush to the debacle of the iranian

war. one easily gets the idea that proponents will not accept any deadline. they want us there permanently. part of a garrison of military power in the mid east. that's what they wanted long before 9/11. it was on the hawk's to do list from the time the clique of cheney and others were in power. this time they're attacking any removal of u.s. troops in which they insist the united states maintain a permanent military presence. it remains an historic fact that it's easier to bring it into an area than it is to remove it. we've seen it in afghanistan, iraq and what is undeniable, the people who were so wrong about iraq and are so ready to be wrong about syria. trump ran against stupid wars. those who oppose them in syria opposed them then for the basic reason the stupid wars were the wars they cheered into being. it's "hardball" for now.

"all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in". >> the russians said -- the russians, i'm sorry, the republicans -- >> one day after questions of treason about the president's former national security advisor -- >> i have no sympathy for mr. flynn. he lied. >> the president switches up russian sanctions, declares victory on isis in syria. >> he did it himself, which he has every right to do, but he needs to own it. >> tonight, what is the president doing and who is it benefitting? >> whoever advised this did the president a terrible disservice. plus, the reality of paul ryan's legacy as he finally bows out of congress. >> i am the same person now that i wa