i could talk to these friends all day, but we're out of time. that does it for us. "mtp daily" starts now. hi, chuck. >> hi, nicole. apologies for the horrid weather in washington. >> i come to town, you rain on me. >> welcome to trump's washington. if it's thursday, the white house and capitol divided by a wall. good evening. i am chuck todd here in washington. welcome to "mtp daily."

we begin tonight with breaking news. what amounts to total and complete dysfunction on capitol hill. call it peak trump era with the president's political weakness now on full display. at this hour, we are barreling toward a shutdown. with the president in a tail spin according to a person close to him about how he got here. facing intense pressure from the hard right base, the president told house leaders that he will not back a must pass government funding deal he once was in favor of because it doesn't fund his border wall. >> i am asking congress to defend the border of our nation for a tiny fraction, tiny fraction of the cost. essential to border security is a powerful physical barrier. >> here's a live look at the house floor now. we're awaiting what they call one of their procedural votes. apologies for the washington speak there any moment. it will essentially be a test vote to see if the bill that

includes $5 billion for a border wall can somehow pass. we'll get the latest in a moment from the capitol hill team. but remember, folks, this is two years of the trump presidency, many ways summed up in one day. he is blaming democrats for not sending him a bill with what he called perfect border security except for one problem, his own party, republicans not only control both chambers of congress for the next two weeks, they've been dealing with his wall proposal for the last two years and yet to find the money for it. if he doesn't have support for a border wall by now in his own party, it is on him and his fellow republicans. here we are. the president won't sign a deal without funding for a wall. the senate doesn't have votes to pass a deal with funding for a wall, and house republican conference is just a mess. we don't know if a third of them will show up. one member told us they're literally watching his twitter feed to figure out what the heck is going on, quote, because that's what the expletive

serving in congress has come to, this frustrated congressman said. and partial government shutdown is looming and less than 36 hours away. no matter how it ends, it highlighted how politically weak the president is. with the democrats taking over the house, it is not going to get better for him. let's go to kasie hunt, and chief white house correspondent hallie jackson in a moment. couple of members of congress in here. k kasie, we are an hour behind schedule. >> reporter: it is an epic meltdown. we came in this morning, everyone was sunny, cheerful, holiday sweaters worn in the hall wa hallways and everybody came out singing the opposite tune. the freedom caucus was putting incredible pressure on leadership, but rank and file republicans would have been probably willing to go along with them, didn't have a

guarantee the president was going to sign the bill. that's where you got the quote you read from a very frustrated republican who described what it has become to live here in washington. they're insisting that they're going to not shutdown the government but also going to pass a bill that includes border wall funding. look how kevin mccarthy framed it as he was on the way by a couple minutes ago. what's going to happen, are we going to shutdown? >> no, we're going to pass a continuing resolution that keeps the government open. we're going to deal with border security and also numbers of disasters, like the california fires and also in georgia, florida that had so many disasters out there, we're going to take care of those people as well. >> reporter: if you pass border funding, it won't pass the senate. so the issue there is that kevin mccarthy states they're going to keep the government open. that's simply not the case. if they manage to get votes for this, first it is a key

procedural vote, then a vote on the actual bill, if that passes, it is more likely the government shuts down. we are getting word from the senate side senators have been advised they may need to come back tomorrow. most of them had already left town, expecting this to be over and done with, but that's not the case. if it fails, that will show the president, forget it, we can't do this, then it is back to square one. >> i don't mean to sit here and parse the answer to you, but to me it sounded like he was trying to say we are going to pass a continuing resolution and come up with an idea to deal with the other stuff. sounded like he was thinking two separate bills. >> reporter: i can see why it might come across that way, but that's not what we're seeing unfold. what's going on here is it is going to be an amendment basically to the cr. now, you could in theory see something where the amendment goes down, what they've done, they put disaster funding, there are some democrats for whom the

disaster funding would be helpful, there are republicans that want it for their districts, they married it to the border wall. they'll force democrats to vote against disaster funding if they vote against the wall. if it is attached to the cr, that bill goes back to the senate and who the hell knows where we are. >> let's see if hallie jackson has a better answer. >> reporter: don't do that to me, chuck. >> epic meltdown on one side of pennsylvania avenue. apparently the president was in a tail spin earlier. did he not realize that ann coulter, rush limbaugh took him seriously and literally? >> reporter: apparently that's a realization that hit the president hard around midday today. if it is an epic meltdown where she is, it is a hot mess on this end of pennsylvania avenue. yeah, that message clearly got received, not just from ann coulter, but i am told that mark meadows spoke with the president last night, this morning, was a

key factor pushing him to fight the short term fix. now you're seeing a series of votes expected to go down as kasie is talking about. the bottom line is the president doesn't have votes to get what he wants now. either he changes his stance or lawmakers change his stance. neither of those seem like likely options, at least at this point, unless there's another solution, which means we're headed for the shutdown. the bigger question i have, what's up with the president's trip to mar-a-lago over the holidays. >> does he know how politically damaging it will be to him if he essentially vetoes that spending bill and leaves? >> i think there's a sense, yes, that the optics of that would be very horrific if you will. no firm guidance on what the president's plans are. i expect we'll know more. there is a sense that the president would want to be seen as taking the shutdown seriously, given that we tend to

get into the weeds of what's going on, process, procedure. 750,000 people that work for the federal government aren't getting a paycheck they thought they would get over the holidays. that's the bottom line for folks. on the other hand, the president is tweeting a video that looks like it was taped this week about border security, fighting for the wall. no matter what, chuck, he is breaking a campaign pledge. remember, the pledge wasn't just build the wall, it was build the wall, have mexico pay for it. now the president is threatening a shutdown if taxpayers don't pay for it and if congress doesn't agree. >> does he have any new offer to senate democrats to get them to vote for this? seems as if he doesn't understand the math problem that he has. >> reporter: or that it is the president. remember, he is a guy that prided himself in the last two years and before that on being able to play hard ball. hasn't always worked out for him, history shows, but i think this is part of the negotiation tactic. i was having this conversation earlier today before some of this fell apart, who said if the

president is wanting to see what comes out of it, if he is handed a piece of excrement, he will hand it back basically. so apparently the president feels like that's what he has been handed. that's why he is fighting this, egged on by allies in the media saying don't sell out your base. keep the promise you said you would keep. >> all right. you know, it is going to be a long night. at least it is raining outside and it is better to be inside. that's about all i got for you. things are changing minute by minute. i have a feeling we will be checking back in with both. i am joined by congressman will hurd. welcome to the show. i was hoping we could talk broader about the border situation, but frankly, i'm hoping you can tell us what the heck is going on, and is the government going to be open this weekend? >> if i'm being honest, the quick answer is i don't know. but likely what's going to

happen, there will be a short term cr. that's the only thing that can get through the senate. that's the bottleneck. there will be a series of votes that sends something to the senate, but ultimately what's going to hit his desk is a short term cr. >> shorter than proposed? >> to probably february 8th. >> so the same one? >> i think so. i think you're seeing a lot of movement today. that's ultimately that movement. i believe the american people sent us here to get things done rather than burn the place down. these are things we should have done a while ago. and ultimately this is about $5 billion which is a random number, chuck. we talked many times before, building a 30 foot high concrete structure from sea to shining sea most expensive, least effective way to do border security. one of the agencies that would get shutdown, we already funded 8 of 24 major departments and agencies, one that would get

shutdown is department of homeland security. you make a difficult situation for men and women in border patrol, and then add uncertainty on top of that by not having a paycheck during christmas. it doesn't make sense but i believe we get this done. >> are there 218 of your republican colleagues that would support the president's $5 billion ask? >> i don't believe so because if that was the case, we would have already seen it. >> does the president understand this? this is the part of this that sort of makes my head hurt. >> chuck, yeah. >> your own party won't give you the 218. so what are you going to do? >> well, chuck, you have to ask him. the thing i learned in my four years here, the only way you get big things done is doing them together. we have examples of that this week. we passed a farm bill, largest number ever. going to make sure farmers and ranchers are taken care of. last night, we passed legislation that will help us

defend digital infrastructure. you have that big announcement today where the chinese were hacking a number of cloud service providers since 2014. so we passed bills in a bipartisan way to get it done last night. there are examples of how the place is supposed to work on behalf of the american people. but some of them don't make sense, just like pulling troops out of syria. this is something that's going to be an issue. we have a lot of issues to deal with in d.c. >> very curious, if the president vetoes whatever bill you send to him, would you vote to override his veto? do you think there's the votes to override a veto like this? >> it is hard to say, to be frank. i haven't seen a whip count on this. let's see what it is, see what argument that he uses. i'm always open. i want to see the government stay open and continue, so we would have to take that day by day. >> congressman, sorry this is the conversation we're having. look forward to having you on again and have a broader conversation about border

security in general. i appreciate you coming on and giving us your views. >> always a pleasure, chuck. >> let me go to the other side of the aisle, house democrat whip, steny hoyer. you have a good personal relationship with kevin mccarthy. you know about whip counts. >> i do. >> where are we on this vote? will hurd said they don't have 218 republican votes for the $5 billion. so now what? >> well, i hope that's the case. i hope they don't have the votes because it is a meaningless act. but it is an act trying to give individuals on kevin mccarthy's side of the aisle a chance to vote for the 5 billion. they haven't had the chance except in committee, it hasn't been on the floor. i think that's hopefully what he is doing, hopefully doesn't have the majority of republicans, won't have any democrats, and i

am hopeful that we will then go to what is not the deal we would have chosen, not the one we suggested but one that will at least give us another six weeks to try to be rational, be sure they operate on behalf of the american people. what is happening now is continuation of the dysfunctional, deeply divided republican leadership and congress. it is sad and the american people rightfully are angry at us and angry at the congress as they should be. >> it wasn't that long ago when it seemed like for about a week there was a grand bargain, daca for the wall. in the days of donald, chuck, nancy, could the daca for the wall -- there was democratic support for it a year ago, has he actually --

>> chuck schumer made it clear and leader pelosi made it clear we think the wall is bad policy. and we are strongly in favor of border security. we are prepared to work with the president to secure our borders. don't think people ought to come to the country that are not authorized to do so. so many of these are coming for asylum, which under american law is legal to do, come in, present yourself to authorities and say i want safety from a situation in which i have been involved, but we want security. here the president is rejecting a solution passed unanimously by voice vote with the united states senate, and it is just incredible that any president would shutdown the government of the united states over $5 billion. we need to remember, the american public needs to

remember, the bills, seven bills were packaged. there's 95% agreement on those bills. 95%. >> let me ask you this, what happens monday morning? the president vetoes this, says i am going to mar-a-lago. you guys want to reopen it, i'm not coming back until january 3rd. what does that look like on monday here? >> i think hopefully the american people will be deeply disappointed in their president and think their president is acting irresponsibly, very frankly as he acted today with respect to syria. on this issue i can't imagine any president i know of that would veto this compromise for six weeks, six weeks, giving an opportunity to do additional negotiations. and frankly, the reason we're here is because the republicans who had control of the house, the senate and the white house were unable in 11 and a half months to get the job done of

funding government, and we're prepared frankly. we don't like this agreement, don't think it is a good agreement. nevertheless, we are prepared to vote for this agreement to give sufficient votes so it could pass, be sent to the president, and do the responsible thing to make sure our government is funded and serving our people. >> is it possible we basically have a ten day shutdown until you take over, and then hr 1 becomes reopening the government? >> i suppose that's possible, regrettable but possible. i talked to the majority leader, mr. mccarthy, and i think frankly he's frustrated with a lot of his members because i think he was for this deal, not because he liked it but he thought this was the responsible thing to do in light of where we find ourselves and i think he was right on that. unfortunately apparently he can't get to his group and more importantly can't get the president of the united states to agree to it. >> congressman steny hoyer, incoming majority leader, current democratic whip, vote

counting, all the way to the last day of your current title. i get that. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> thank you, chuck. today is donald trump's presidency wrapped up in one day. the panel is all over that. and syria, these guys are really ticked off about that on a bipartisan basis, too. a lot to talk about when we come back. a lot to talk about when we come back and just like you, the further into winter we go, the heavier i get. and while your pants struggle to support the heavier you, your roof struggles to support the heavier me. [laughter] whoo. [crash] and your cut-rate insurance might not pay for this. so get allstate, you could save money and be better protected from mayhem like me. mayhem is everywhere. so get an allstate agent. are you in good hands? whit hurts like hell... it's a hate crime. i got beaten up because i was different. so, i created a world where i can heal.

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congress for about a decade. i got to say, michael steele, i have been thinking all day about this. this is the congress that got elected in 2010. this is now how the republicans are leaving their control of congress. how does it look? >> i think it looks once again like the tale is wagging the dog. once again, the president teamed up with a small group of conservative republicans with unrealistic tactical plans to achieve goals we share. we want better border security, but most of us know this particular tactic, threatening shutdown as we go out of power days before christmas is not an effective tactic. >> hang on. as if the day didn't get weird error nuttier, the president just tweeted that jim mattis, secretary of defense, is retiring. >> that was my first -- >> it is on the screen.

he will be retiring at the end of february after having served my administration for the past two years. during jim's tenure, tremendous progress has been made, especially with the prospect to the purchase of new fighting. your first reaction was oh, my god. >> one of the things reassured a number of people about the president is the idea he is surrounded by calm, competent, particularly in national security aides could reign in his worst impulses. howard? >> my thought is don't get on donald trump's radar screen right this minute. >> he is firing people left and right. you might get fired if you are in view. i'm guessing here, but i think my somewhat educated guess would say the proximate cause is syria. he did the syria move without any consultation with the pentagon or his top officials.

it is not an easy situation in syria, but the military was very much committed to and proud of what they were doing to stiff arm the russians and the iranians there. he undercut that, that might have been the last word format 't for mattis. >> we don't know if he is retiring or let go, they reported for months that mattis was on the way out. >> because the relationship was fraying. >> and partially what michael said, tension was growing as mattis is trying to whit hop ho. we're in the middle of shutdown, tremendous blow back with the snap decision on syria, and decides this. >> dropping this, this feels like dropping a match and gasoline. >> i think what you're seeing is a form in real time of trump rage going on here. he is wanting to prove to his base which called him out on fox

and elsewhere to say you're a we weakling not standing up for what you believe in. i think you're right about mattis, i think he chose to make that statement as reaction to criticism he is getting for being weak as a conservative leader. >> this is the frustratingly self defeating nature of the trump presidency. success against isis, the american military efforts to roll them back and contain them is one of the great success stories of the trump administration, and declaring victory prematurely and sacking or accepting resignation of the defense secretary feels like cutting off your nose to spite your face. >> especially when congress was like at least mattis is there. >> trying to think of lindsey graham. he has been in a rage all day over syria. control room, we weren't planning on having the bite ready, if we do, i wouldn't mind getting some lindsey graham up here so people get a sense. when we have it, we'll get it

up. we were going to do a syria segment later in the show. you drop a match into kerosene, with mattis gone, lindsey graham is going to go out of his mind. >> well, if it is just lindsey graham, that's fine. it isn't just going to be lindsey graham. it is the whole defense establishment that donald trump has been at war with from the beginning. i think they probably viewed his unilateral statement on syria which as commander in chief he is entitled to make, usually in consultation with people that know what they're talking about, i think i find it outrageous and it is something he was aware of and doesn't mind fomenting. he is looking for another fight to pick because he may not win this fight. >> let me play this lindsey graham from earlier today.

here is lindsey today. >> i do know this, that in this war you will not win it by quitting, giving up. this is akin to surrendering. we can be successful only if we partner with others. this undercuts that effort. we have two choices to fight this war. in their backyard or our backyard. isis and afghanistan i know for sure is looking toward the united states and their target sets. mr. president, you have a chance to change course. you have a lot of bipartisan support to do so. take advantage of it. >> all right. lindsey says that today. then we got word the president is thinking of withdrawing troops from afghanistan. then we get word that jim mattis is retiring. something has blown up in this relationship between the

president and the defense department. >> imagine the kerosene is too mild. the president has steered congressional republicans into a box canyon in the immigration fight and dropped in a barrel bomb with these actions on national security. this is unmitigated, unfettered, blind lashing out from the president of the united states. >> i think what he's doing is he is having been reminded by fox, et cetera, that he ran on the wall, he is now remembering the other things he ran on, which is the neoisolationist message. >> is he grasping? everybody is pissed about the border wall, see grasp -- >> he is grasping to the political identity that he knew that got him here in the first place, that's my take on it. it is politically at this point disastrous. he is remembering when it was the good thing to do in early days of securing the republican nomination. he seems to be fighting for his own base now, which is an odd

thing. >> he already has it. >> 85% of republicans want the wall. why he had to go do this now, i don't understand. >> and it is just for february 8th. you brought up that mattis is a way to calm the republican establishment and military establishment, it was supposed to be rex tillerson, henry mcmaster and jim mattis. mattis is the last guy standing. pompeo, of all guys in the national security team, he seems to be the one that somehow can make trump think he's doing what he's doing but also keep allies okay, but nobody else figured out that balance. john kelly is now gone. all the generals in charge of trump, gone. >> this is trump's instinct is chaos, right? like you said, he throws bombs at the last minute when things -- i am old enough to remember yesterday when it almost seemed like governing yes

at the 11th hour, they would fund the government. there was bipartisanship happening. >> his political manhood has been challenged. this is how he is reacting. >> crazy day at the white house. kristin welker is hooked up to a camera and mike. kristin, what is this and why is he dropping the mattis news probably at the worst time politically to keep his party united on capitol hill? >> reporter: chuck, this is another thursday at the white house really. look, the timing of this obviously significant. it comes after we have been following the break neck developments in terms of a potential government shutdown. we're now careening towards one. this is not all together a supplies. there have been some tensions between the president and mattis. they have at times spilled into public view. remember, president trump during the 60 minutes interview said mattis is a democrat.

the reason speaks to what you were talking about. >> code for i don't like him? >> reporter: it certainly was. it was not a compliment. he was putting mattis on notice, chuck. that's how it was widely viewed. and look, he did see the united states' relationship differently in terms of the relationship with key allies than president trump did. that was part of the reason for their tensions. then this decision to withdraw troops from syria. there's rumblings that mattis was opposed to that. i think it is no surprise this is coming now but in terms of specifically right now, i think that president trump as you're discussing likes chaos. we're certainly in the middle of a chaotic news cycle, no doubt about that. he wants to try to have some control over what the headlines are right now, chuck, as he is backed into a corner over the government shutdown. >> we know also, this is a move john bolton, current national

security adviser will be pleased with. he and general mattis didn't always see eye to eye either, i think on a larger world view of foreign policy. so who -- does he have an idea of who is going to replace secretary mattis? >> reporter: that's a good question, chuck, and i don't know that he has a short list yet. certainly and undoubtedly probably has some names that he's looking at. but this comes amidst a big shakeup within his administration. i mean, remember, he is replacing his chief of staff, his attorney general, and the u.n. ambassador. so this is one of sort of a broader shakeup that's happening. we had a sense this was going to happen, chuck, that the president was going to redo top level -- >> the at this hour announcement of it to me is shocking. you're right, we knew it was coming, at this hour feels like the wrong timing there.

>> reporter: i think so. and it came by tweet, chuck. >> of course it did. >> reporter: and it is worth noting that look, the chief of staff announcement seemed to be a little more orderly, so we're going to try to get the back story on this, at what point was this decision made. >> you mean by orderly when four people turn down the job before they found somebody, yes. that's one form of orderly. kristin, you have to go back, crash for the 17,000 pieces of breaking news from the oval office. i have courtney cuby on the phone, national security reporter, very much traveled with secretary mattis, knows him well. courtney, long big picture, not a surprise. this hour, total surprise. what happened? what do you know? >> it is a total surprise that it happened tonight, the same way we were surprised yesterday that the president decided to

withdraw troops from syria, the same way we were surprised this afternoon when we found out the white house has asked for plans for withdrawal potentially full withdrawal from afghanistan. so yes, i think surprised is the word of the last 48 hours. there's been a lot of talk as you know, chuck, from the last three, four months that secretary mattis would do two years, and might retire. we have to look at this from a bigger picture, it is not uncommon at this time in the administration for cabinet members to leave before sort of the ramp up of the next campaign for 2020. but secretary mattis, the reason this will take people by surprise and potentially even concern is secretary mattis was one of the people in the administration that was consistently seen as keeping the boat steady. big national security decisions. president trump back in april wanted to withdraw troops from

syria. secretary mattis was one of the people who was able to talk him out of it. there's been a lot of national security issues and decisions that secretary mattis has been in the room for and helped steer president trump on. >> courtney, history, i want you to frame this. i know you know secretary mattis well. history is going to record that on the day after the president announced the pulling out of syria, pulling troops out of syria in a happway he announced the letter from mattis is dated today, history will record he handed him his resignation the day after that decision. how do we not connect the dots? >> not just that, the day, right when the white house also asked for plans for potential withdrawal from afghanistan, which candidly people behind the scenes, it is the d.c. parlor game, when are people going to leave or not in various

administrations, and one thing i've been hearing is if president trump were to decide to withdraw u.s. troops from afghanistan, that might be a tipping point for secretary mattis. >> and that's what happened today. >> yeah. i mean, even if they haven't made the decision to withdraw, the fact that the white house is asking for plans is very telling. i was in afghanistan in october, and it is one of the things a lot of people talked about, concern that president trump has said he doesn't want troops in afghanistan and that he might decide, we get decisions like this via tweet, it is not uncommon. secretary mattis, it will be interesting how history looks back on him, if he is looked at more for years and decades in military service and uniform as a decorated marine or in his last two years where he has really been in the political role. >> very quickly since this is circulating that mattis may leave, any legitimate names you know are being considered?

>> so there have been some names kicked around but just recently they seem to also be knocked down more. senator tom cotton's name, i don't know if that's a reality, given the split on the hill now, they may need his voice for the administration on the hill. retired general jack keen is another one that occasionally his name is out there, retired general keith kellogg is another one. it will be interesting. president trump appointed retired military people to key positions, but secretary mattis was the first recent general, remember, he had to get a waiver to become secretary of defense. it will be interesting to see if there's another general brought into that job, whether it was considered that was a successful experiment as secretary of defense or not. i am in the car with my kids. that's what the whining is in the background. working mom. >> go. this is the beauty of it, you're juggling, i have to let you

juggle. thank you, courtney. trust me. >> thanks, chuck. >> anybody knows the back story on jim mattis, she knows that back story. howard fineman, defense. department of justice, new chief of staff. on one hand i could say it is the two year mark, if you're going to go, go now. this does feel like utter and complete chaos. and you're right, that's probably the way trump designed it, but wow. >> well, what's troubling in the trump rage is not just watching him operate in real time in tantrum mode but the fact that he is so estranged from the institutions that when all else fails, a president is supposed to be in close touch with and be secured by, meaning the pentagon, the fbi, the cia, in other words, the whole defense and intelligence establishment of the modern presidency that we have taken for granted as being

a unified thing for the most part that keeps its disagreements behind closed doors, that protects security and stability of the united states. this president is at war with them all, and he seems to think that that's what his conservative base wants him to do. i would also say right now it looks like the administration is run by a combination of laura ingraham and vladimir putin. vladimir putin loves this and loves the withdrawal from syria, probably would love withdrawal from afghanistan. it's the world we're living in now with donald trump. >> two thoughts here. in one way, this is classic donald trump. don't have votes for border funding, change the story. on the other hand or in addition, against the backdrop of the mueller investigation, the russian issue, even the perception that you are firing a beloved secretary of defense for disagreeing with a decision that russia cheered is madness. >> lee ann, someone said i think

you're underplaying it. this feels extraordinarily serious. he is on a one man temper tantrum, whether it is the criticism of ann coulter, goes crazy about that, now firing withdrawing troops, like he is trying to settle scores. >> i can't emphasize enough how upset congress is going to be about this. i know we talked about lindsey graham. these defense hawks on capitol hill are not going to be happy. then they have to go through the confirmation hearings for all these people again next year. not only will gum up the works, it will be hard to get people through. >> the attorney general nominee who i don't think he can get confirmed. i think that memo might be too much because he has to recuse himself if he became attorney general, and we now know the point he was nominated, and

again -- >> bill barr looks like the least of donald trump's problems. >> in some ways. >> but schumer today said no. he said you need to pick a new nominee. >> you work for the guy that nicknamed him mr. chaos candidate. i remember that. i mocked your former boss a bit there. thinking of dom deluise in "cannonball run." captain chaos. this is the leader of the free world acting this way. >> you look at the three legged stool of people that are trump skeptical, tax cuts and the economy, gorsuch on the supreme court, and mattis and reasonable foreign policy abroad, one of the legs of that stool went away in large measure if he pulls out of syria and afghanistan and mattis is going, it will be harder to your point to keep

republicans on board. >> key line to mattis' letter and i think it gives a hint, it may not have been a firing but this may be the first person resigning in principle. key line from the letter. because you have the right to have a secretary of defense whose views are beret lintter a treating allies with respect, clear yes, i did about maligned actors, i believe it is the time to step down. >> this is a flat out open repute agency of the policy decisions that took general mattis by surprise, both on iraq and the news. it couldn't be plainer, chuck. if he stood on top of the pentagon roof and shouted it -- >> let me read more. it is clear that china and

russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian motto, that's why we must use all of the tools of american power to provide for common defense. my views on treating allies with respect, being clear eyed with maligned competitors and informed by four decades of emerging in these issues, that's saying i don't agree with a thing you've done. >> when vladimir putin who yesterday had his annual press conference said i certainly agree with donald. that's what he called him. i certainly agree with donald that general mattis' hair must have stood on end because it looked like the president of the united states was getting a pat on the head from the president of russia. >> this is the first -- we had one diplomat in panama that

resigned over disagreements with the president's policy saying he can't do it, i think history will record, this is jim mattis resigning over disagreements on policy. >> maybe he is the one that wrote the op-ed. >> don't laugh. who knows. i forgot about that one. >> secretary tillerson said the president wouldn't listen. you could argue with him to a point, then he would do whatever he believed or wanted to do, despite facts, despite best evidence of advisers, and seems to have hit that again. >> this is a resign in principle moment. >> i would say the president is pursuing the thinking, the resentful sort of fear of washington, fear of the establishment thinking that he first entered the stage with is my point. the deep state is out there to get me, the cia is out to get me, fbi is out to get me. that's what mattis can't stand.

>> put up an adam kinsing tweet. i haven't seen it. the producers promise me it is a good one. there you go. that's what happens when you ignore sound military advice. it can't be crystal clear. lot of people said when these guys leave, some of them leave and say nice things about the president. he is now sending this -- capitol hill republicans, you were saying how much they admire and how much they're comforted by secretary mattis. his words, what impact, whether james inhofe, the military hawkish republican types. >> it will be interesting to see how they handle this when they come back. bob corker is gone. he is on the way out, he is probably so happy now that he's on the way out. his replacement is jim rich who hasn't criticized the president, stands by him. it will be interesting to see how that committee deals with

it. but i will say trump is an isolationist in every sense of the word. >> he was in company and business. he is the only one. he doesn't listen to other people, doesn't care about other people's advice, he follows his instinct and gut. >> who is going to take this job, howard, who is going to take this job after reading that mattis letter. >> somebody that studies donald trump closely, covered him since he began the campaign and before. i bet one of the things he is thinking is if we get out of syria and get out of afghanistan and they don't give me money for the wall, that money is going to come out of the pentagon. now, he said this, he has said this. he said the money will come from the pentagon. and we're going to take the troops from abroad, take the money from abroad and i'm going to use it and have the pentagon itself build the wall. another thing that the pentagon people have objected to is the idea that it is their job to

police the border. they don't want to do it. whoever the next secretary of defense will be will have to be somebody willing to at least not quit over the idea that the pentagon is supposed to build and defend the wall. >> playing historian, trying to think of the last cabinet secretary to resign this publicly essentially in protest. carter secretary of state did. you could say general macarthur did. this feels that big. >> this is the other end of the american century, but yes. >> adam is a veteran. he may be the leading edge of republicans. >> kinzinger was upset when president trump said i am getting out of syria because people up there wanted me to. >> up there? >> the soldiers that died. >> i saw he was doing that.

he is not a pias man, i don't assume that, i don't mean that negatively, he is not a very religious man. >> kinzinger who is a veteran is not pleased with that. >> i have general barry mccaffrey on the phone. in some ways i think can bring some light. general mccaffrey, when you read secretary mattis' letter, it is clear this is a resignation in protest just written eloquently so as not to personally insult the president. >> yeah, look. mattis is a lot of things, one of which is a man of tremendous principle. he's a defense intellectual. he is someone that has literally become an icon of devotion to the armed forces. they trust him, they like him, they know he is one of them. he's also been pretty darn politically astute in the sense that he managed to avoid crazy

instructions out of the white house while still remaining respectful to the commander in chief. i think he just got pushed way too far. he was on ground he could no longer accept. >> how do you, general, can you imagine after you read this letter, and i want to read you one part of it to me, as important as any, he writes we must be resolute and unambiguous in our approach to those countries who are intention with ours. it is clear that china and russia, for example, want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model, gaining veto authority over other nation's diplomatic and security decisions. to promote their own interest at the expense of their neighbors, america, and our allies. that's why we must use tools of american power to provide for common defense. general mccaffrey, this is general mattis indicating that the president of the united

states does have america's national security interest as a first priority. >> well, i think that's the upshot of it. it would be hard to imagine mr. trump gets up in the he's o work directly against american interests. but i personally concluded well over a year ago that for some -- i concluded it reluctantly, for some series of unknown reasons, he is actually beholden to and deferential to putin who is essentially a dictator and a murderer. and the chinese, i think he's needlessly confronted in some ways and yet in other ways, since we haven't stood with solidly with allies in japan and australia and south korea, he is ineffectually dealing with chinese expansionism in places like the south china sea.

so again, secretary mattis, defense intellectual, long-term view. i think he was finally on ground he couldn't support. >> where -- give us a sense -- he was popular with the rank and file. i know secretary mattis was. what kind of morale problem we might have in the pentagon and in the military ranks? >> well, look, there is a tremendous structure of discipline and obedience built into the senior military officers. they won't in any way lose focus on what their priorities have to be. on the other hand, i think by enlarge, particularly in the ground combat units that are deployed, this will be badly received. it will be unsettling. by the way, i think the other place it ought to be badly received, there are only two people in national security that are vital to the safety of the

american people. one is the secretary of defense, and the other is the homeland security secretary. the latter is probably about to go also. and so losing secretary mattis ought to be of concern not just to combat troops but also the american people. >> general mccaffrey, appreciate you coming on the phone and sharing a little bit with me there. thanks very much. let me go to jeremy bash himself. a former chief of staff to defense secretary leon panetta and then over to the cia and quite familiar with secretary matt is and his team. jeremy, what -- what do you make of this? i don't know what else to ask here. what do you make of this? as an observer and somebody that is probably talking with former colleagues a lot about this. >> well, chuck, at the outset of the administration secretary mattis told his confidants and

his colleagues he would not resign from the position of secretary of defense, that if trump wants him out, trump would have to fire him. and he actually reiterated that point to some colleagues and confidants as recently as early december, there was a large national security and defense forum held at the reagan library and secretary mattis basically transmitted to some people, he was conversing with that he didn't want to quit and that although he wasn't going to compromise on his position, the president would have to fire him. so i view this very much as a firing -- >> more than a resignation in protest? because it seemed like that too. >> yeah, look, i think in a sense they're one in the same. the president said i need you to do these things and follow these things and secretary mattis said i'm not going to go there, mr. president and i think they both agreed as gentlemen that secretary mattis would submit his resignation. but let's make no mistake.

this is, as you delineated, it is a clear break from the president on two major issues. one is he rights in his letter he does not agree with the way the president has treated allies and treated the whole concept of the alliance structure, which is a foundation of american security and strength since world war ii and he doesn't believe the president has been resolute and unambiguous in our approach to russia and china as well. so here you have secretary mattis saying the two pillars of american defense standing up to our adversaries and standing with friends, i don't think we're in alignment on that and therefore i can't serve as your secretary and the president agreed with that and fired him. so here we have one of the chief guard rails that are around this presidency now falling away and i think it is a very dangerous and precarious time. >> jeremy bash, i'm so glad you -- we got you on the phone. very interesting and important construction really to how we should view this mattis

situation, firing or resignation. jeremy, thank you. let me bring it back to the panel before i have to hand it off. should we be pretty rattled right now, michael steel? i feel a little rattled. >> i know i am. >> this feels like we had -- we had one source tell reporters, it feels like the wheels are coming off. and i know we've said that before -- >> every week feels like the worse week except the week to come. but in this case there is a last days of watergate sort of feel to the chaos -- kais -- the chaos coming from the white house. >> i thought the mueller report would cause this moment. and ironically it is i guess ann coulter. when did he lose it here. because all of this is some weird -- >> i think -- >> there will be documentaries on these 48 hours. >> as i said before, i think being lectured to by the likes

of laura ingraham and rush limbaugh and ann colter was unsettling, questioning his man hood so to speak. and it is a matter of global world view and donald trump is retreating into himself. only donald trump could administer a coup to himself and that is what he's done. >> yeah, that is an -- look, there were people put around him, i think that is fair, general kelly, general mattis, mcmaster, he's gotten rid of all of them. jeff sessions turned out to be one of the minders and he got rid of him too. >> so lindsey graham just tweeted he's often fiery as we all know but it is a very solemn tweet. he said i'm very saddened by this. so it is a very interesting response to that. he said he talked to general -- to mattis and so getting back to the rattled comment, i think this is hitting people very deep. >> really interesting to see how it affected the psychology on

the hill. everybody should get up there and see because they're in the midst of trying to settle this other thing and now you have this president having a tantrum in the oval office. how does that affect whether there is a budget deal or whatever -- luckily the stock market is closed for the night. >> oh, my god. isn't it time -- this feels like a moment where they ought to just send a veto proof cr and just get out of town and park him in mar-a-largo. >> whether or not it is veto proof, everyone needs a cooling off period. >> just keep the government open and get this bill out of congress to a point maybe he doesn't -- he auto pens. fine. just get out of town. get everyone out of town and let everyone cool off and let everyone see their families, relax and enjoy the holidays. come back to start again in january. >> but the problem is trump doesn't do that, though. >> again, we have a -- predicted the demise of donald trump incorrectly for 40 of his 71 years on this earth. this feels like the most important crack in his political

armor that we've had yet. >> i would just say that he's going back to what brung him to not use the fill cliche. he's dancing with the ones that brung him and back to the isolationist view he's had for decades and clinging to his wall. these are the two -- two of the main, if not the main principles coming in, and it is what in this storm that is surrounding him now of investigations and political to and fro, being president is hard, he's clinging to those two things in a way that is upsetting his -- upsetting his political life in ways that he has yet to really figure out. he's gone from minute to minute, which is why people are concerned. >> there is a third of the cabinet empty and he has acting -- the government may or may not open up. he is issuing orders, michael steel, that not people -- people don't agree with. this is a -- this is arguably the nightmare some paints, the nightmare scenario.

>> this administration has been an uneasy alliance between the true believing breitbart crowd, isolationalists and more establishes republicans and who know how the system works and are able to get results and this feels like he's blowing up the treaty held between them. >> that is a good way -- i know we've said this before about the congressional republicans and they will stew and hand ring and maybe send a mildly tough worded tweet. why do i feel like this time they might actually react. >> i feel that way, too. >> this is a big one. >> yeah. mitch mcconnell -- i don't know if he'll be a leader in this or a silent follower. it's going to be interesting how much mcconnell deals about this. he cares about judicial nominations above and beyond anything else and do anything to keep trump at bay to get his objective through. is this too much. >> but this is foreign policy a place where congressional republicans have been willing to

assert themselves. >> well, and here we are. guys, i don't even know where to begin. that is all we have for mtp daily tonight. in the midst of the breaking news, the house is voting right now on the key vote that will apparently tell us more about whether there is a shut down coming and we have this national security imploegsion. >> and our breaking news continues with ari melber. i don't know if -- i don't know if breaking news is enough to describe everything that is happening right now, but the trump white house might be unraveling. >> i heard you say nightmare and unraveling. we have the language here, bry let you go, of general mattis say you have the right to have a secretary of defense that whose views are better aligned with yours. where do we go from here? >> and if you believe jeremy bash who said the president -- that secretary matt is was never going to resign and the president would have to fire him.