sharpton and "politics nation." >> good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's need, the only decision the republicans and democrats have agreed on is to go home for chris. we are at the top of the hour 17 of a partial government shutdown, and that's hundreds of thousands of federal workers in limbo, just three days before the christmas holiday. as the fight over president trump's border wall reached its predicted outcome this week, with senate democrats united in their refuse annual to give the house the $5 billion requested to fun you had the wall, and republican senate majority leader, mitch mcconnell, unable to break the deadlock. the president tweeting this

morning, hung it all around the democrats' neck, and quote, we are negotiating on the democrats on desperately needed border security but it could be a long stay. joining me now, tiffany cross, co-founder and editor of "the beat dc," and jen concerns, spokeswoman for the california republican party and a contributor to the hill magazine, and glenn kushner, nbc news analyst and former federal prosecutor. let me go to you first, jen. the president is saying the democrats are holding this up about border security, but help me out here, what am i missing? the president said on television to nancy pelosi and schumer he

would probably take credit for a shutdown, it's his shutdown if he doesn't get the wall and now he's blaming the democrats. am i missing something here? >> well, it's a little bit of both here, rev. anybody that is that surprised that president trump shut down the government simply has not been paying attention. this guy, the day he announced in june 2015 that he was running for president a few blocks from here in manhattan, he said he was going to shut down the government and build a wall. >> why is he blaming the democrats? >> well, the democrats, and a guy that was a senator then, barack obama, and a gal by the name of hillary clinton, and also joe biden and chuck schumer supported the 2006 fence act, and those tenants of the fence act were the same things that donald trump is trying to accomplish here. but you know why democrats don't like it? they don't like it because it's

donald trump wanting it. >> let me get this right, and i will go to the rest of the panel. you are saying as a republican that donald trump is really just doing a democratic fence wall. do you think he would be saying that? i don't think so. >> he has said that. >> no, he said that this was new and the democrats don't want border patrol. let me ask you, tiffany. the other glaring dispute here -- well, not dispute, but let's say inconsistently, i thought -- i read "the beat d.c.," and i thought i read mexico was going to pay for the wall. and so why are thousands of federal workers heading into christmas without a paycheck, so why does he need $5 billion from congress? >> exactly. thank you.

i appreciate jen's explanation. we heard president trump say it last week when he claimed the shutdown to be his own. this is a crisis of the president's own making and it was easily avoidable, and it was all over a wall that mexico was supposed to pay for, and why they stoke their base with fear is off of lies. donald trump, outgoing house majority leader, and the national security secretary are saying terrorists are crossing the border every single day. we know that not to be true. and they were asked, the homeland security secretary was asked where are the terrorists? have they been prosecuted? where did they original? they have not gotten answers

because it's a lie, and you know, what is a war on christmas? thousands of people going through the holidays without a paycheck. and jen said this is something that democrats previously supported. maybe that was a different time. today we have more i.c.e. agents and border patrol and the least amount of migration that we have seen in decades. again, this is an empty promise all meant to stoke fear in a base that lacks of intellectual curiosity to find out facts for themselves, and -- >> wow. >> let me bring glenn in this. glenn, do you see the irony like i see the inconsistency in the shut down that affects homeland security? let me get this right. we are fighting overboarder patrol but we are going to put homeland security workers in a shutdown mode? i mean, something about that doesn't add up to me?

>> no, rev, it doesn't make sense. i was a federal government employee first in the army and then in the department of justice here in washington for more than 30 years, and i lived through some of the prior federal government shutdowns and we still had to come to work and do the hard work of law enforcement without getting a paycheck and without knowing we were going to get a paycheck. as you mentioned a few minutes ago, i think we all heard the president say mexico would pay for the wall and now look where we are. he's trying to dig into taxpayer pockets to the tune of $5 billion. when some politicians stand up and fight for the taxpayers and keep the president's hands out of our pockets, and the president shuts down the federal government. i can tell you, because i lived through it, that puts so much anxiety on hundreds of thousands of federal workers over this christmas holiday.

you know, the president may be comfortable in the white house and then at mar-a-lago, but a whole lot of federal workers are now laboring under a lot of stress during this holiday season, and that is unconscionable. >> can i just ask -- >> wait, wait, wait. i am going to give everybody a chance. i promise. jen, does that even make any kind of appeal to republican leadership, the anxiety of hundreds of thousands of federal workers that will be sitting there at christmas dinner not knowing if they are going to get a paycheck? what the president says it could be a long stay. we know the senators adjourned until monday morning 11 a.m. eastern, and we know we are now more than 800,000 employees across key departments, including homeland security, and thus the nation's border patrol facing either furlough or unpaid

leave in the middle of a holiday season, and in fact i am hearing it's not going to be monday now, and they are talking about coming back the 27th, which is thursday, two days after christmas, and they would be on 24-hour call. how would you or any republican feel sitting at the dinner table wondering when am i going to see my next check, and i am a federal employee in a make america great era? >> i can tell you from personal experience, i was a state employee in california when the government had shutdowns, and the credit unions who give tax-free or interest-free loans to these state workers and federal workers, there are systems in place where the people are covered for a time -- >> is that like getting a loan during christmas? >> by and large, president trump said from the beginning, he would have a showdown over this.

>> he said a lot of things from the beginning. it doesn't make it right and it doesn't help me sit there with my family. >> in regards to mexico paying for this, i do agree with sarah sanders, and i don't always agree with the white house press secretary, but i do agree with this, mexico has done more to protect our border than the democrats have. >> the president said a wall, tiffany. he is not working out other border patrol methods with the democrats. the democrats have ideas about border patrol. why would you work and give credit to the mexicans on other things when you are so inflexible on the wall with americans? >> i can't agree more. it's ridiculous to introduce that device rhetoric and tell a lie about democrats not caring about border security, and that's a dangerous thing to get

on air and say something like that. >> excuse me, let me finish my point. >> no, there's a big difference in the wall and the fence. >> exactly. i want to echo what the president's own incoming chief of staff said, he called the wall childish and absurd, and anybody echoing falsehood and putting them in that category, childish and absurd. >> the first shutdown lasted 69 hours. i mean, this president seems to have no problem with shutting things down, glenn. i think when we look at now we're going into the first day, we went just 16 hours the first time, and i mean, what is this where there seems to be a lack of sensitivity, particularly during the christmas season about the lives, the anxiety,

the whole kind of way somebody conducts their family business and personal business if you are a federal employee serving the country? >> yeah, you know, it's callous and careless and reckless and itse it's self absorbed. he and his family will be comfortable this holiday season. yet, as we just discussed hundreds of thousands of federal employees will be anxiety ridden, and how a commander-in-chief can do that to the american people is beyond me. of course much of what he has been doing recently, tweeting things out before he even consults with his own agencies, and his own experts and advisers, you know. this is a reckless policy we are seeing, policy is an overstatement, this is reckless behavior when you see him tweeting things out about troop

withdrawal without consulting with general mattis, and i think it's raising new questions and reopening the debate, quite frankly on the 25 amendment -- >> oh, come on. >> can i finish. >> i will come to you, jen. >> when somebody is unfit to serve. because, rev, if we see tweets withdrawing troops, how long will it be before we see tweets actually sending troops into harm's way without consulting our defense experts? >> i want to get to syria in a minute. jen, you wanted to respond. i don't think the american people have much sympathy, unfortunately, for pwraobureauc and some paper pushers -- >> are you saying the american people do not care about the federal employees going over the christmas holiday -- >> as tough as that may sound. the bureaucrats in washington,

d.c. did not suffers as the rest of americans did with the obama cost of living increases year or year -- >> we're talking about men and women sitting at the dinner table on christmas day not knowing when they are going to see their next paycheck, and you are calling them paper pushers and bureaucrats so they don't matter? >> i didn't say they didn't matter. i say they have a different job security and pay scale than the rest of the american people have felt in the last eight to ten years. >> a lot are living paycheck to paycheck. >> having been a state workers, they will be getting paycheck loans with no interest. >> they can't go to a credit union until after the holiday. come on, the panel is not done. from shutdown drama to multiple investigations into the world of donald trump, i will get reaction from one congressman on

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you guys are living in the past, and this government is in chaos, it's a free fall, the market is in a free-fall, and the secretary of defense is gone and we're pulling out of syria. what is going on? you are in charge of the house,

the senate and white house. get a grip and learn how to govern the country. >> that fiery moment from congressman tim ryan, democrat of ohio, during the government shutdown debate on thursday, laying into the republican party over broken promises about the border wall and politics as we know it today. congressman tim ryan joins me now, and he is also a member of the appropriations committee. congressman, what is going on? does it seem like washington will get a grip? it seems like this week from the shutdown from the demands on the border, a wall that he claimed he would get done by mexico to pulling out of syria to his secretary of defense resigning and reprimanding him publicly, it seems like this has been a week of real destabilization in

washington as most americans would see it. >> yeah, no doubt about it. i mean, we thought the president did have a lot of plates up in the air spinning and this week a lot of them came crashing down. obviously around the budget, the third government shutdown since he's been president in the last year or so which is -- just shows the level of dysfunction because the house is republican and the senate is republican and the white house is republican, and they should be able to at least pass a budget and keep the government open at a bare minimum. then you look at what happened at the border wall, and he promised in all the campaign rallies, he talked about how mexico would pay for the wall and he had chants he would do with the crowds about mexico paying for the wall and now he's asking the taxpayers to read the wall. and now mattis is leaving and if you read his letter, you read

that this high-powered general, and if you look at the united states government, and the only aspect of our government that has a long-term vision for the country is the department of defense through secretary mattis, our relationship with china and russia, and not going on in just a 24-hour news cycle, but secretary mattis said i have nothing in common with this president and i'm out of here. i think it's a real warning sign to those of us in government. we have a lot of work ahead of us to try and get this train back on track. >> let's talk about the shutdown a minute. is there anything the democrats are attempting to do or can do as alternatives that would move this? can they negotiate that we will do certain things if you give us daca or something else, or is this an inflexible position by the president and he will give nothing and there's no way of

trying to salvage workers? >> i hope we can open a conversation around border security that is that equivalent of what is happening in 2018/2019. he wants to build a border wall when republican senators in border states don't even want a border wall. that shows how insignificant it is and how unneeded it is. there's so much technology out there with fencing and arrow stats where you float little balloons in the air and you can monitor people moving. the technology is unreal today and the president wants to go back ten centuries and talk about a wall. let's talk about border security. the fact that 90% of the drugs coming into the country come in through ports of entry, so i would love to have a conversation about more manpower, more dogs, more technology, where these drugs are coming in and cars and

backpacks. we have a huge opioid epidemic, and i certainly want to prevented that from coming in but let's be smart about it. hopefully the president will see that kind of light and have an adult conversation about it and maybe we can fit that in the budget and move forward in a really smart way. >> congressman, you expressed a lot of concerns, and we have visited each other, and i know a lot of your concerns. what do you think should be the priorities of the democrats when they come into power in january in terms of being the majority? >> plugging working class people back into the economy. globalization automation has left the working class behind, black, brown, gay, straight, people that get up every day and do everything right and work hard and play by the rules, and

then in 30 or 40 years, they lost their pension. people are working hard and putting 50 and 60 hours, two or three jobs, and their kid gets sick and they can't afford health care, and i think in the wealthiest country in the world we should be able to make sure everybody has accessible and affordable health care. lastly, i think what is most important, how do we prepare our country and our people, our families and our communities for the global competition we are in right now with china and with russia? investments in education, and investments into research and investments in the infrastructure, and rebuilding our downtowns and our communities. that's what we need to do, and that's what gets lost in the juvenile discussions about border walls and government shutdowns, and we're missing the big picture of, you know, we're supposed to be a superpower, rev. we're supposed to be a superpower and we can barely keep the lights on in our

federal buildings. there's a brutal competition happening right now, and america needs to start leading the way, and i want the democrats to make those investments into education, health care, and pension protections and all of these things, and get us ready to compete. the american people want to work hard but they want to be part of a growing stable economy where prosperity is shared but doesn't just go to the top 1% of the people in this country. >> we have a lot facing here in 2019, and we are discussing also about 2020. your name has surfaced. do you plan on running in 2020 for president of the united states? >> you know, i am having that discussion with my wife and family. it's important for me that the democrats have somebody from a part of the country that, i think, has been left out of the

democratic discussion. the great lakes states, the south, working-class people. i want to make sure our agenda is focused there. we are having that conversation now. >> sounds like you are carving out your lane to run there, but go ahead. >> yeah, well, it's an important -- it's not a political lane for me, but these are important issues. i represent a general motors that just closed and i have been watching this train wreck for 30 years, and bad deals and people losing their health care and that eroding from within, and so i am interested in being in that conversation, and i will be involved in that conversation, i can guarantee you that, and people that take a shower after work are represented in our government. >> i will have to leave it there. thank you, congressman, tim ryan. happy holidays to you. up next, one of the biggest

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now for my we cannily memo to president trump, who is probably past the point that my advice can help him, but i will save that for another day, because earlier this week many in the civil rights community had a rare moment of common celebration with republicans in congress. dozens of which voted for criminal justice reform bill, the first act that was signed by president trump, friday after months of lobbying from an unlikely coalition that included conservatives, and kim kardashian, and the president's son-in-law, jared kushner. let me tell you what i think about the collaboration we saw this week. i think a lot should be added and a lot must be done.

but i think to relieve thousands of people from unjust sentences, giving them away with their families hundreds of miles away where they are held from contact that could be easily attained. i think other things were in a step in the right direction, but it's a first step. we need to keep going. there must be a second step of bail reform and other steps of dealing with all kinds of questions in the criminal justice system, making one step does not mean you're walking towards justice yet, it means you made a step. we need to make a walk towards fair criminal justice for all. mr. president, you signed a will, and i hope you didn't do it so you can do four other things that will take the impact

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♪ diarrhea... try pepto with ultra coating. welcome back. we are about to enter the 18th hour of a partial government shutdown, and minutes ago the white house has announced that due to the shutdown president trump will remain in washington, d.c. and the first lady will return from florida so they can spend christmas together.

yet some are asking is trump fueling this fight to distract from legal woes and turmoil within his administration? nbc news is reporting that robert mueller could issue his report on the russian probe as soon as february. meanwhile, close allies of the president are facing federal charges and members of his administration are resigning. i am back with my panel, tiffany cross, and jen kurns, and glenn. we are hearing mueller's report may come as early as february, and we saw what happened with flynn being given a harsh warning from the judge that despite the advice or the request he not be given jail

time, he could possibly face that. we are seeing michael cohen given three years, and we have not heard what the ceo is doing of trump organization, his cooperation, and it seems like a lot of legal woes and bad news for the president. some are saying maybe he's doing all of these other dramatic acts such as the demands on the wall and the pullout of syria and 7,000 troops in afghanistan to take the public's mind off of the legal clouds that seem to be lowering over his head. >> i think it's a reasonable inference, rev, that all of the shenanigans that the president is pulling at the moment may very well be calculated to distract our attention from how the administration is crumbling. if i can just give a tip of the

hat to judge emmitt sullivan who was the presiding judge over general flynn's case, and i was in the courtroom and i watched the judge take general flynn to task for having committed one of the most dangerous and egregious offenses against the united states when he was the national security adviser, and in my view judge sullivan should be viewed as a hero and is a perfect example of the fiercely independent judiciary and how desperately we need that branch of government to function the way it's function. he obviously made it clear right now the judiciary remains interested in the rule of law particularly at a time when the executive branch is not doing well and the legislative branch has walked away from the oversight responsibilities, which will begin to change on january 3rd. i agree with you, rev, there are so many actions that seem to be

taken by the president these days that seem to be nothing more than a desperate attempt to distract from what we are about to see reportedly, which is a mueller report. let me just say, i don't think a report is all we are going to see. we are likely also going to see additional indictments drop, and i think it's all but certain we will see a conspiracy indictment involving roger stone, jerome corsi, and assange may also be a coconspirator as well. >> tiff, what will be the impact on the american public and what will be the impact on american politics if we see that from mueller? >> as glenn said, we are going to see the democrats come into power. they are going to have the gavel power in the house, and it will be a huge difference, and maxine waters can target trump's tax

returns. there's still a lot in the mueller probe we don't know. robert mueller, he does not speak at all. we are going to see what he uncovers, but he has not gotten into the digital operation, and the secret meeting and the trump tower meeting, and there's still a lot of uncovered territory here. for roger stone, it's hard for me to imagine he will come out of it scott free. he, by definition, was colluding with russia, and he requested for corsi to get in touch with wikileaks, and he came back and shared the information. roger stone was absolutely in touch with trump himself and the campaign. i think it's going to be hard, and robert mueller is just producing the report and it's up to the legislative branch to act on it, and adam schiff, he will

have the gavel power, and he has been out front saying, you know, his intentions about when democrats come into power. i think it's going to have a huge impact. i am a little nervous. a lot of this is us discussing it on tv and the breaking news banner, but when you think about how the president eroded core democratic principles, but then you have the crazy people who come on tv and repeat lies or follow the president's twitter feed and repeats these things as though they are facts, so there's a huge amount of people that believes the president's lies as their own truths, and we have to get to a point where people are more engaged and reading papers, and they have some sort of checks and balances, and it has to be the real power brokers and that's us as constituents. >> jen, does it not concern you as a republican that leading figures around the president has

clearly said yes, i had contact and did things with the russians who were the clear enemies of the united states government? would it further disturb you if there's evidence that the president had knowledge and did not stop it or even participate in it? >> yeah, it does concern me that flynn had contact, and he didn't either remember or lied bit. >> how does a man with his background not remember -- >> i think the judge was right in that case to reprimand him. to president trump's credit, this is why he fired michael flynn. michael flynn lied to vice president mike pence, and that was trump's reason, he said you do not lie to the vice president of the united states or to anybody else -- >> he said that about flynn? >> and then he said good luck in

court today? would that be the same flynn? >> i did not see that report, but yes -- >> he tweeted that the morning flynn was going to court. >> well, that's for the president to answer. >> president trump. >> that is for the president to answer. you look at other people in the president's circle. manafort, he was campaign manager, but his main job was whipping votes at the convention, and his length of time was there about the same as a summer intern to msnbc -- >> to say what, if he was collaborating -- >> he was indicted for activities dating back from way before the trump campaign. >> all manafort says, within the length of time whether it was small or large amounts of time, i did, a., b., c. with the russians or i was in meetings that the russians were in and president trump had knowledge of it and did not stop me or might have participated with it, and

that has nothing to do with his other cases. what i am talking about, wouldn't that as a republican really gall you? >> sure. we have not seen that. the two years that the mueller investigation has been going, we have not seen that. in the cohen case, this is about bank fraud and tax fraud -- >> and it's about mr. cohen saying the president -- >> there may be some there there. we will shave to see what the final mueller report says. but government continues regardless of what investigations are out there. in the macase of mattis, he wast democratic think tanks, and he brought several democrats into the administration with him. i am not that surprised that general mattis is leaving -- >> is that the same mattis president trump made secretary of defense, and the president did not know he had all the

democratic -- >> i am not surprised -- >> but you said the government goes on? >> it does. >> there's a shut down right now. >> thank you, jen, tiffany and glenn. still ahead, what it will take to ultimately re-open the government. we'll be right back. ack. breachn & you start to panic... don't. because your cto says we've got allies on the outside... ...& security algorithms on the inside... ...& that way you can focus on expanding into eastern europe... ...& that makes the branch managers happy & yes, that's the branch managers happy. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & when this happens you'll know how to quickly react...

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welcome back to "politics nation." more than 50,000 federal employees with no paychecks or jobs to go through this holiday season live in the congressional district of my next guest, that's congressman anthony brown of maryland. he joins me now. congressman brown, how will this shutdown affect the 50,000 federal workers in your district in real time? what will this actually mean so our viewers will understand what is going on in households two days before christmas? >> sure, look, it's going to have a dramatic impact. don't let anybody fool you that it's a partial shutdown and federal government workers will get paid retroactively. that may be true, but not only

do i have federal government employees who are now on furlough and they go through the anxiety of whether they are going to get paid. i have federal contractors that won't get paid, and those are men and women women who are janitors in federal buildings. they're security guards. a lot of federal government contractors that do core federal functions. they are not going to get paid. yet many of them will continue to be on the job. that's real. it has an impact on them. has an impact on their families. it also has an impact on small businesses in our community when that federal government employee says you know what, this was a big weekend before christmas, i would have otherwise got my nails done, maybe taken? clothes to the dry cleaner, maybe even get my car tuned up before the holidays. i'm not doing that because of the uncertainty. that has an impact on small businesses. don't let anybody fool you that the retroactive pay somehow sort of exonerates those who are acting irresponsibly, namely president trump, and shutting down government. >> let me ask you something else.

i know you and your background. you served in the military. you're on the armed services committee. how do you respond to the resignation this week and reprimanding the president as he resigned of the secretary of defense and the other generals that have left this administration? what does that say to you as a military man and a member of armed services committee? >> i certainly have a lot of concerns. that resignation by secretary mattis was a clear rebuke of president trump's world view. or quite frankly a lack thereof. this america first notion that we'll go it alone. president trump rejects our important allies around the country -- around the world. secretary mattis understands the importance of strong alliances, about supporting and making commitments that we honor with our partners like in syria. he understands as in the case of the korean peninsula that while

the military may be a tool you've got to make room for diplomacy. all of these things are almost incomprehensible to president trump, and that's why i'm concerned, because the steady hand in secretary mattis in a few short weeks will be gone. >> how do you feel about the attitude of some supporters that act as though there was collusion with russia by the president or members of his family. i mean, it's easy to smear others, but it's members of his family or him may have been engaged in collusion with the russians. and you're a man that has done a tour of duty, even as lieutenant governor, and been in the military. what does that say to you, congressman? >> so i'm going to answer that two ways. number one, for the men and women who are in uniform today, while they are concerned, they will every day get up and do their job in defense of this country. having said that, it certainly shakes the confidence that men and women in uniform have knowing that the commander in

chi chief, that's the person that holds the office that leads our armed forces, his credibility's in question. his integrity is in question. and that will have an impact on morale. it could have impact on readiness. but rest assured, men and women in the army and the air force and marines, they get up every day and they will do their job to defend our country. notwithstanding who occupies 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> thank you, congressman brown. >> thanks, rev. happy holidays. >> same to you and your family. up next, my final thoughts. stay with us. ay with us ♪ ♪ ♪ the greatest wish of all is one that brings us together. the final days of wish list are here. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing,

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this week something happened that i do not believe got enough attention. secretary of education betsy devos began measures to end the obama administration's taking a harsh stand against