>> announcer: sponsored by -- y thousand dollars, y thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. welcome to "up." i'm in for david gura. the federal government enters its eighth day of a partial shutdown with no end in sight. >> how long should the president keep the government closed? how long? >> do you it until hell freezes over. >> now the president is holding firm on his border wall, even threatening to close the entire southern border if he doesn't get the wall funding. >> -- the southern border, a

billion dollars a day, is the president seriously willing to do that? >> yes. yes, he is. >> is impeachment inevitable at this point? a journalist who covered watergate seems to think so. >> the move is goiod is going td i think it's inescapable. >> sorry, park's closed. the moose out front should have told you. joining me, a legal analyst, a democratic strategist, a senior political editor with msnbc and a former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst. we start with day eight of president trump's government shutdown. a quarter of the federal government still closed for business and with negotiations at a standstill, the shutdown is set to stretch well into the new year. as the funding stalemate drags on, president trump is falling back on his favorite negotiating tactic. tweeting ultimatums saying he's willing to close the entire

southern border with mexico if he doesn't get funding for his wall and acting chief of staff mulvaney says take his threats seriously. >> reporter: shutting down the southern board. is the president seriously willing to do that? >> yes, yes, he it. all options are on the table. >> democrats taking control of the house next week aren't interested in the options the without put on a table including an offer from vice president pence last weekend who told schumer the white house is willing to xep $2.5 billion instead of $5 billion. democrats counter, no thank you. pelosi's chief of staff saying democrats offered republicans three options to reopen ghooft all include funding for strong, sensible and effective border security, but not the president's immoral, ineffective and expensive wall. let's start with mike viqueira, msnbc's capitol hill reporter. what's the latest? >> reporter: good morning. the latest is we're here still

home alone. this is saturday. we're a week into this. the only activity in capitol hill this morning within these hallways is painters and craftsman working to prepare for next week. that's the big week, and on thursday, of course, the opening of a new congress and democrats take over in the house of representatives. you're absolutely right. they do have a plan to put forward a spending bill that would reopen the government whether it be for eight weeks what they call a stop gap measure, or continue the current levels of spending into the end of the next fiscal year, which is september 30th of 2019. so far there is absolutely no activity since that offer was purportedly made by vice president pence when here a week together. today, absolutely no movement whatsoever. that's because the game changes on thursday when nancy pelosi takes over the house. democrats are likely to pass something that very day and then the real questions start to be asked about what the senate is going to do. the senate has not demonstrated they have the votes to do

anything in terms of a spending bill, except maintain status quo. remember, before this shutdown, republicans joined with democrats to keep the government open in a short-term stop gap spending bill, to keep spending levels the same while negotiations continue. of course, president trump pulled the rug out. that brings us to where we are today. which is at a virtual standstill. >> mike viqueira, thank you so much. i turn to our panel and start with you, beth. we heard home alone but the lights aren't on and there someone seem to be movement. at least in the movie there were lights, action, something happening for pretend in the house. what do you make of the standstill mike just told us about? >> i know. president trump was actually a cameo in "home alone 2". >> see what we did there? what we did there? >> exactly. lots of cameos in the '90s for him. the problem here is he's backed himself up into a corner. he had a much better deal many months ago. democrats were willing to come with president trump, agree money for a wall, much more than

he's talking about now in exchange for a deal around daca, protecting the young undocumented immigrants brought here at children, giving them a chance to remain in the country and apply for legal citizen is. he and his team jettisoned that. didn't want to give in, they feel it's such a key issue for the base, that he lost his best chance for a ton of money on the wall. at this point, democrats coming in to run the house, they have no inceptive to give a deal to president trump. he's in the white house trying to tweet his way out of this with ultimatums, as you said. ultimately none will go anywhere. nancy pelosi will come in next week. they'll pass a bill to do the kornting resolution and on we'll go. it's all basically a waste of time. two problems for president trump politically. very little -- slim support for a wall, number one. he's blamed for the shutdown. >> not just blamed for it, he owned it. he said he'd be proud.

remember? >> exactly. he wanted it. so right now he's operating from a position of weakness, politically. usually you go into these big sort of risky high-gamble moves with strength behind you and he doesn't have that. >> we have numbers who's being blamed for the shutdown. i believe it's 47% of americans putting the blame for the shutdown on president trump. versus the democrats. that was by design. lisa, negotiations, this has been call add standoff, but is it a standoff when one side merely tweets their position? >> it's asymmetrical warfare as is so typical with the trump white house. we just had a graphic of the number of workers affected by the shutdown. that's a serious number of six figures of people working without pay. unpaid leave. what the office of personnel management gave them as advice. the apotheosis of the republican idea you get no help from the government at all. sample letters that said, for example, when you reach out to a company for whom you can't make rent or do a monthly payment, you may want to fax them.

fax them to make sure the letter gets in because it's 1990. right? or you might want to consult your personal lawyer. show of hands? you all have personal lawyers, ready, in case you don't get paid? >> people who work in the trump administration do have personal lawyers now. >> or be your own lawyer, and lawyers say that's a bad idea. no ent in sight. what's the personal cost? >> you bring up the perm cost. what do you see? >> the president has to own this. he owned it in that initial meeting in the white house, where mike pence sat as a zombie, i thought that was odd and going forward attempted to blame democrats over twitter. no thinking adult thinking this is not squarely on the president's shoulders. other presidents have had shutdowns. every president in modern history dealt with a shutdown. the one distinguishing factor here is the wall. a younger, browner congress more full of women is simply not going to fund this border wall. we will -- excuse me. i'm a democrat, but congress certainly will provide enhanced

security funding and border security funding, but a wall is a non-starter. this president knows that and that is the singular factor that caused this shutdown providing immediate pain at the holidays and at the turn of the new year for hundreds of thousands of american workers. it's fundamentally unfair and it's squarely on the shoulders of the president. pie have a very hard time thinking how adults can place the blame anywhere else. >> we've seen prototypes of the wall. get those on the screen to see what this is allegedly all about. clint, haven't heard from you. used to work in the fbi. security is kind of your thing. what is your take on the claim of the president he just wants the wall to keep us all safe? are there better ways to do that? >> there are much better ways to do this. for a couple different reasons. one, any wall without overwatch, we would say in the military, is not a defense. you're just blinding yourself to what's happening on the other side of the wall. they never really talked about that. what we've been looking at even over the last decade, especially with counterterrorism and done

in iraq and afghanistan, we've advanced technology dramatically. this is something we could invest in tighter, improved border security without putting up a wall, much more effective investing in our technological advances in the united states. you want to invest in industry, we have concrete down. that wall, will you build it, the day you build it you've got to maintain it. that maintenance budget will cost you that cost of building the wall plus 50 years from now how much will you spend to build that wall that starts crumbling? these advances in technology, we can see what's going on on the other side of the border, monitor that, we can have tougher border security. i guarantee you if you talk to the professionals that want to accomplish this, both sides of the aisle, he's a solution we're willing to fund, technology we're willing to invest in. here are companies that were benefit from it in the united states. leapfrog us forward. building a wall puts as back with the era of castles, and seen anybody surviving in

castles it's absolutely false and a giant waste of money. >> do you also thing in terms of rhetoric around the wall and who's supposed to be paying for it. we're having a battle about congress paying for it, but it was supposed to be mexico initially. where do those negotiations stand? >> yeah. well, we know motion coe repeatedly insisted -- i mean, the previous government, there's a new president since then, has said we are not paying for this wall. president trump has tried to sort of explain this away by things saying the new trade deal just passed, usmca yield savings. it doesn't work that way. if there are any, it won't pay for a wall but go back into the economy. looking for ways to justify the claim mexico will do this. nobody at this point believes that will ever happen. he's had to do a sales job, probably needs to, to explain

why american tax dollars need to go for this when basically security professionals and others say this is not warranted and just enhance securitied, we have quite a bit across the border is sufficient. >> i'm struck by the silence within congress. you're a former member yourself. in previous efforts the president had a lot of backup. republicans coming forward on his behalf. screaming loudly, going on conservative news outlets. i don't hear very much from conservative members of congress, or the senate right now. they've all kind of gone home and are enjoying their new year's. probably getting paid. but is it my perception true in your eyes they don't seem to have his back on this as much as in the past? >> i don't think they have his back on the wall, because ultimately, every member of congress, not just the president, is responsible to an american public who is really upset. not only being a government employee but upset about fundamental services shut down. that affects us all, period, and ultimately congress has to face the backlash for that every 24

hoes, via election. i just kind it remarkably rich, also, to see republicans very, very slowly starting to take that jeff flake position are backing away from the president and it cannot be detached by the indictments dropped like hip-hop mix tapes. there's a new one every tuesday and thursday. i think we've reached a place, you mentioned top of the show, is impeachment inevitable? that's up to the house. i really don't know what will happen but you don't see the republican vocal support and mueller piles up legitimate evidence to say, yes, these guys and this team of individuals which were very close to the president actually did this stuff. >> maybe the president will want this wall so he can hide himself behind it with all of this coming his way? coming up, house republicans wrap their investigation into robert mueller's russia probe before he even finished. what they found and didn't find, right after the break. the wonderful thing about polident

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do you expect the president -- obviously you represent the president. do you expect he's going to have to answer more questions in writing? >> well i think i announced ten days ago over my dead body and i'm not dead yet. so -- >> president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani sounding adamant his client is done answering questions in the mueller probe, but a short time later said in an in-person interview, it's still open for

discussion. on friday, house republicans announced that an investigation launched baaing in 2016 into the doj and fbi practices has officially concluded. a letter to agency heads and leadership, the joint gop committee said president trump had been treated unfairly and recommended a second special counsel to investigate further. all this while talk of impeachment grows according to some experts includes the support of republican lawmakers. >> they've already been taking steps to separate themselves from him. it's already happening. the cracking is already happening. look at the number who didn't want him to come in and campaign with them. >> so we are back now. lisa, start with you, because this is a very intricate legal matter, impeachment and the american people have had to learn a lot of intricate legal matters over the past 100 and some days over this president. what do we need to know? >> we need to know a lot and won't know as much as we wish

we'd know, for example, the mueller report, probably birthed in 2019. >> that's the album, yes. >> it may drop very silently and not to the public. we may not ever know everything that mueller knows. to me, elizabeth drew's point, the guest we just saw, it's fascinating. much as it is a legal decision what constitute high crimes and misdemeanors, ultimately it's a political decision. i think congress, the senate, have to decide is this going to be a nixon impeachment where he resigned recognizing the weight or a clinton impeachment. the sna tenate decided not enou evidence, he can keep his post. >> if you listen to incoming speaker nancy pelosi when asked about this, she pushes back hard saying this is not going to be the first priority of the democratic congress. they are coming in with the intent purpose showing they can get something done, can lead. they can look mature. they can open up the government. and then turn to the people's business. that's what she keeps talking about.

things like getting higher wages for jobs. improving health care. the things that american people, you know to a person say they want to see done, and to get rid of this dysfunction in washington, but there is this hard core certainly some of the people who are coming in to the house, progressive, hearing from their supporters who say, we want to go after trump. we want to investigate this administration, put people in jail, impeach the president. that's a powerful motivator for a lot of people on the democratic side and the progressive side. so nancy pelosi's going to have to balance that. how do you do the work for the american people what she says she wants to do, with a very strong political impetus to get back at the president and get back at his people? that's a tough one for her. >> you are the strategist for the democrats at the table. a recommendation how to manage that balance? i can see the point of both of those being very strong, very sound. >> true. it's a tightrope. democrats particularly house democrats will have to decide whether to investigate or legislate. you have to do a little both. this is where calm is crucial. you have to tell the story to the american people about how

you've chosen to spend their time. i think that there will have to be investigations. elijah cummings will be a rock star because he runs the house oversight and government forum committee, and all of the hearings on all of the things are going to be in front of elijah cummings of maryland. i think on the legislative side, the democratic party is the party of the big tent. you have alexandria ocasio-cortez, representing a wildly progressive caucus and a staunch blue caucus. the thing that brings these folks together is ultimately the desire to raise and elevate the voice of the middle class. you'll see an empowered organized labor sector as this happens across the country, do so with support of a democratic house. i think you have an entire universe of members of congress now who have come of age in a time where climate change has been not undisputed as a real thing. i think you'll see real policy there that develops clean energy. whether or not it's a new green

deal we don't know, but you have a strong contingent of members now with no dispute that climate change is a real thing and the people are going to want to see policy that addresses that immediately. so beth, you're absolutely right. have to be a tightrope. speaker pelosi has proven to be a masterful legislator as well as politician and will deftly legislate it. >> people stand on the topic, no action at all taken? 41% saying that's the answer they prefer. or should president trump be imimpeached and removed from congress, 39%. and also 20% in action by congress. what do you think? >> much more for subpoena indictment. here's why. we don't have rules in the country and don't know whether the president can be subpoenaed or indicted.

i've heard this argument thrown out, a sitting president, can't be -- they can't be indicted. >> right. >> what if -- what if -- the only reason he's president is because he committed a crime in pursuit of that goal? >> unprecedented case. >> we are incentivizing all candidates to break as many laws as they want as long as they win it's okay. if you lose, you're indicted. >> a tough one on crime, what i'm hearing essentially. >> we need to come up with the rules and can't count on congress to do that. whether or not we do impeachment i would like to see some of these thingsut to the supreme court and i hear, well, kavanaugh, this and that. i don't necessarily believe every supreme court justy because they wrote a paper in the 1990s saying the president can't be indicted, given the choice, head of the supreme court will look at all the body of evidence and say, okay. we need to let the president off the hook in this case. i don't believe that at all's he made a gamble with whitaker. upset with whitaker because he's not protecting him in the district -- nonsense.

whitaker is a sane human being and rational saying, look, my job is the acting attorney general is, to enforce the law. it is not a team sport. this is, i'm representing the people. so i think it's good to put people in these circumstances, if they're elected officials they have to decide, is it the country or the party? which is it going to be? >> i would love the full employment act for legal analysts that would occur. just saying. if these battles about subpoenaing the president, taking testimony from a sitting president went all the way up, just remember what goes around comes around. the supreme court, and i have faith in them, would take these cases, recognizing that down the road there might be a democratic president who might be alleged to have misbehaved, and might be subjected then to subpoenas and testimony, and i think they're going to take the long view. it might not be the result you want. we're more than two years in. just about two years in to the trump administration. maybe an argument that he goes out the way he comes in. through elections in two years' time rpgts right. >> i don't think i have a way i

want it, either. i just want to know what the rules are. >> test the rules. >> as americans we're in a spot like, can he do that or not do that? we don't know. i just want to know what's the rulebook and then we do it. >> yeah. sounds like a lot of us want that, guidance, certainty in a very uncertainly time. come back to this topic. it's coming back to us i'm sure of it. next, facebook heads into 2019 on the defense after a blistering year, but what's the answer when it comes to reining in the social media giant and keeping your privacy safe? that's next.

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i'm in for david gura. social media has emerged as one of the most powerful campaigning tools for politicians leading up to elections and coming back into focus as candidates gear up for 2020. two senate reports published this month paint a picture how russian internet trolls used almost every social media platform to help trump win the white house in 2016. using key voting issues to polarize voters and suppress pu turnout of minorities to the

polls. facebook now is under fire for letting others read personal sites. my panel is back with me. clint, i want to start with you, because you have that fbi label, and this term meddling has been used a lot. what i would say is an underappropriate term for what is an act of information warfare. >> right. >> looking through the senate report, the select committee on intelligence talks about reddit, facebook, this warfare. how long has it gone on? should we have known sooner how significant the threat was? >> january, five years of me watching the russian influence effort and my team jan berger, andrew weisberg stumbled on to it in the syria context. one of the mistakes all influence groups make they want to talk about different topics over time. when they quit talking about syria and talk about the u.s. presidential election, kind of shows their hand. how we got lucky to stumble on

to it, but what is interesting is, for the first two years when i talked about it no one cared. you couldn't get anyone to pay attention. overtaken by isis discussion. the last two years talking about it nonstop. now the russians aren't even the worst players in the field. the worst ones will be politicians, public relations campaigns. celebrities. oligarchs. anyone who wants to reputation clean and public relations firms. they'll dominate the space. third world country detateictat are doing this and oh prepress. the one that dominate will have artificial intelligence, able to mime all your data and put it together to understand you better than you understand yourself. >> so you know, you're terrifying me. i want to put that out there. >> and social media companies

are in a tough spot. business model, i give you more of what you like and your friends give you more of what you like, and you can't unwind that. why the fake news is almost impossible to tackle. soon as they enter they're not a neutral platform. >> on the tomic pic of unwindinn msnbc news tech contributor. talk to us about the unwinding and the reputational unwinding of firms like facebook we used to treat with almost literally kid gloves and now are dragging them before congress, writing reports, getting data out of them about the threat they've enabled to our democracy. how dramatic has this story shifted about our relationship with tech companies and where do you see it going in 2019? >> the lower third it was facebook's no good, horrible, bad 2018, no the just the company. all of silicon valley. lawmakers and others, other than clint, woke up to the notion

social media was responsible for a lot of bad. serving as a conduit for information, propaganda, other sorts of falsehoods or the way they used data in perhaps ways users weren't expecting or regulators weren't expecting's you can expect to see two things next year. first, lawmakers are going to continue to demand that folks like facebook ceo mark zuckerberg and others answer questions perhaps dragging them back to capitol hill for hearings and second, house democrats taking oefk are the chamber might push to regulate more forcefully in a way some republicans in the house weren't necessarily interested in doing. remains to be seen if anything will actually reach the president's desk but i think the heat continues to be turned up on facebook and its peers in washington. >> thank you for that, tony. a follow-up on this point with my panel in the room as well about regulation and the impact of the influence operation, voigter suppression. on the regulation, lisa on the rules, we had that discussion earlier.

your take on the pllikelihood o oversight? >> hard to know but look to the old country, europe, interesting guidance on one of the two issues i think these companies face. one is privacy, of which we have none. second, their ability to push forth unfettered information and have it look like news. on the former front, europe is installing new rules, tougher rules, that regulate privacy. these companies that are global companies are going to have to follow these rules anyway. it's like emissions. get to the toughest state, follow those rules and the rest follow suit. >> a lot of work to do on emissions. >> we do. separate topic but related. once following a certain set of regulations perhaps could be made global. america's never been a country high on protecting privacy, but maybe that changes if you're like me and alexa plays music without you asking it to. like what? >> maybe i'm a little cynical about this, but for any who has

taken their own personal information, handed it to facebook or any other social media platform, e-mail address, baby pictures, deepest, darkest fears, everything people put up there and think, wait. this should all remain private. an incredibly naive position to take. that information shared willingly, we do it ourselves will suddenly be protected. seems hard to me both tech knoll does notknol knol knoll-technology, you've given it away. how can you expect it to be private? >> tweeted away, mueller's first set of indictment, a big pdf drop. talk about mixed tapes. went through it myself unlike other members of congress who weren't interested. quote myself. on twitter. because i wrote, it's like the russians took two great u.s. innovations. after t advertising and marketing and turned it against us. americans lie to each other all the time.

they won't notice if we join them. this complicity of the self. giving over our information for a deal, for an ad, slippers or something else online. >> one more point about that. >> yeah. >> the senate reports that yyou referenced's not only is this activity taking place on facebook, it's taking place on every other social network as well. youtube, tumblr, and bride maids stre dress designs, seeing propaganda there, too. even if facebook is shut down, something else will pop up to replace it. how do we think it will be better? it exists everywhere else on every network. >> these algorithms track up and thoroughly involved in our daily lives. the greatest existential threat is the showing that they've shared direct messages with

other companies large enough to -- that really scares me. because we put something on our wall or you make certain posts and know that's public information. but just -- defer to the lawyer about the expectation here. when you, an average citizen -- you think that that's some type of privacy. >> i want to go to tony rome for a closing comment. running a little short on time, but facebook will be there to talk about this further. help us understand what we're going into next year? >> the key word is "expectation." users expected one thing to happen with facebook and their data and surprised to learn how that information was being used. i think the other thing to watch with facebook are the investigations around the world. the ways it's handled user data and privacy mishaps and scandals that have come out over the past year. potential the federal trait commission to bring down huge financial penalties against facebook for the mishaps, we're waiting to see. it will depend how aggressive

the agency wants to be. i think there's a lot of pressure on the u.s. government in addition to facebook. >> thank you so much for that, tony. glad you could join us. also add one other consequence of the facebook effort and the russian effort, i should say around social media was suppression of votes. questioning the health of our democracy, that's significant to keep an eye on in 2019 as well. for the last 17 years hillary clinton has been the most admired women in gallup's poll. not anymore. who knocked her out of the top spot, after this. has been excellent. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today.

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while clinton and the current first lady tied with 4% each. former president barack obama for the 11th year in the row voted most admired man in the united states. taking second, president donald trump. my panel is back to discuss this urgent and critical nationally significant breaking news item. these list toppers. this obama family, lisa, you have thoughts. please, share with the table. >> so many thoughts. so many joyous thoughts about michelle obama taking the top spot. if any of you were paying as close attention as i was to what she wore on her phenomenal book tour, her ability to own the ensemble of the yellow dress and the thigh-high glitter boots. made footwear news because of her jimmy shoe booties but

beyond the fashion and the beauty is a serious message that michelle was able to put through with her monster book. i point out with the flick of her manicured hand she managed to disable the lean-in argument saying, with an xplaltiexpletiv. lean in meant women you're not working hard enough to get ahead was a welcome moment. >> i think absence makes the heart grow fonder and lots of people in the country are looking back on the obama presidency with nostalgia. >> looking back on the george w. bush presidency with nostalgia. >> drives your point. >> some explains why the two would top the list. we can't -- yes, it's no the biggest national security or national issue to discuss, however, it is significant this happened that two black people are at the top of this list given what we know ash this country's history. the level of racial unrest that still exists in this country. for people to elevate a plaqbla

man and black woman as most admiredsignificant. >> agreed. >> the bigger store, for the former president and former first lady, there are dividends paid by consistently behaving with dignity and integrity and just being an admirable -- obviously. the list is most admirable, but being a decent person. you can't detach that from this current administration. through no achievement of their own being decent and consistently decent people you have to juxtapose that with what we see every day. even their best day is pretty bad in this administration and the juxtaposition lends itself to elevating the former president. but i will also say, there is no bigger fan of barack obama than myself. and to me, what elevating michelle shows is that as much as i was devoted to him and still am, she is everything that he is. she just decided no the to run

for president. so it is very difficult to --. people would love it if she did. >> they would. >> and she would hate it, sounds like. speaking of elevating her. president obama in office put out lists. he put out a list with his wife's book becoming, topping that list. started listening to it on audio. there's something soothing and powerful about having michelle obama talk to you every day. what's your take on the contrast or any element of these most admirable people? >> remarkable to me particular president obama does anything, you can identify yourself in whatever he's putting out. identify with nothing that president trump does or how he behaves or i don't want my kids to behave like him or any one of his family. whether it's books. academic and professor and a president and a normal person. you know, like you, and same with michelle obama. she's the same way. she can give you a part of what you see every morning, when you

wake up and can also tell you, here is the future you want to go to. when you hear our current president talk, nothing to fear but insufficient amounts of fear you need to be scared and we need to build a giant wall and -- the world is coming to an end. >> excellent point and a really good contrast with the expectations. we talk about expectations. obamas set a very different one. also during the break i expect you to get in on these pastries. up next, it's 2018 and we're still talking about dent pi polit identity politics. what it means to be black in america in of all places, at school. , at school i knew about the tremors.

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viral video of a referee forcing a 16-year-old wrestler to cut his locks before a match has sparked a national firestorm around racial and cultural bias. amid the growing outrage, the new jersey school district says its teams will not be participating in any further events with that referee and the state's civil rights agency opened an investigation into the matter. this "washington post" headline is spot-on. wrestler forced to cut locks was manifestation of decades of racial desense taization. and decades is right. look, my hair has been part of my identity my entire life. this is me as a high school wrestler with an afro and i pity the fool who would have tried to cut it without my permission. i lost that match but nots the

afro's fault. i was inexperienced's sometimes wore my hair in corn rows after my high school graduation and headed to harvard looking like this. graduated with honors without being stopped or impeded in any way by my hair. hair. my panel is back with me. i want to talk about identity politics. have you had any similar issues personally or with anyone in your extended circle around control of your self and your hair? >> i have not. i have always been a rather conformist hair. my biggest challenge is whether to beijing or not. the brothers get that. but i think in its much larger context, this is what it is to be black in america which is a series of microaggressions. obviously, this was a macro aggression. but a series of microaggression that's all contribute to an undercurrent of ultimately trying to force one to conform, to think like the larger culture thinks, to wear their hair like

they do. and that is essentially the daily weight of blackness is to be forced to conform or if you choose not to -- it's to conform or if one chooses not to to be publicly embarrassed. and we have seen that from lynchings 200 years ago up through this video. obviously, it wasn't a violent incident, but to that young man that is scarring and that is, obviously, a very visceral thing that went viral, but it's the every day dimunition of life. >> we've seen so many about black athleteses this year in the bumping up of politics and culture. from the black football player, the take a knee controversy which president trump grabbed because there's nothing that motivates his base more apparently than talking about black athletes taking a knee, laura ingram just saying just shut up and dribble. >> inspiring a new tv series

with that, actually. >> so we've seen that this year, black athletes who aren't just playing the game. and for some reason, that's offensive to many people who are observers of the game, apparently. we are led to believe that. that any sort of expression of culture or any sort of expression of politics takes away from the playing of the game. and yet that is identity politics layered on top of that. that's a white identity requirement or expectation of what black athletes ought to do. >> is there a world where the norm in america can get to a place where everybody is a part of it? where it's not seen as, oh, his hair is abnormal. that's just his hair. are we getting closer to that place where he's not singled out or a black woman wearing name hair at work isn't singled out, but that's how you show up to work and you're professional. >> i would love that and what gives me pause is the ineffectuality of attempts from time to time of people in power

trying to tamp down these racial issues. and i'm going to talk now about new jersey, my home state. >> take us to jersey. that's a place that's always confused me. take it away. >> so many exits, so many malls. but they sat down with the at le athletic association, sat down and said stop it already with racial unrest, with nasty says, with painted slogans and now fast forward, this rev i didn't get the memo. so will we have another round of ultimately unhelpful meaningless legislation that gets us anywhere? i hope not. i always wonder what is not captured on video, by the way. >> there is always a light in the darkness or in the storm clouds of all of this.

olympic wrestler jordan burrows tweeted out a series of messages in support for this young high school wrestler. he wrote, i have never once seen a person required to cut their hair during a match. this is nonsense .as a referee, you're required to check the hair and nails of all wrestlers before a match. this was a combination of an abuse of power, racism and plain negligence. and there were some technicals involved in this. the ref was late to the match. so on the merits, he wasn't really doing his job. you don't have to get to racism before you get to the basic competence of do your job. so there's something missing here and why he's not involved any more has a lot of reasons. >> sure. and this young man -- locks don't grow overnight, as you know. this young man, hm matches had he won? how many times had he competed prior to this fundamentally racist ref who we know had called a colleague the "n" word

in a previous iteration of his life. this had not been a problem for this young man over the life of his wrestling career and over the life of his growing locks. it is larger than this one individual. >> there are other adults in this young room. this young man is being lauded for his poise under that stress. do you think he should have been exposed to that stress in the first place with so many other adults there? >> no. and this comes to the point of why did that happen on that day? was this premeditated? did he plan it? is this something he had been thinking about? has he gone through those checks and procedures? i grew up in the military. everybody has the same haircut, everybody wears the same outfits. did he do that? i don't know, but i almost guarantee not. and this just comes to i know we're always talking about legislative solutions and this is that. it's about execution. what are we going to do as a society? there were a lot of people in that room. why didn't anyone sort of say, hey, let's take a step back, let's pause for a second. let's wrestle another match and

we can come back from this. take a break from this. let's convene something. no one did. now i think we've hit points are people are rising up and making these questions. that has to change. >> i want to thank you all for helping us wrestle with these topics. boom. yeah, i did it for you, did it for the international. thank you for this hour. lisa green, don calloway, beth fuey and clint watts. up next, how president trump's visit to the troops in iraq this week went so, so wrong. plus, the workers who are really affected by this shutdown. i'm going to tell you about the people who have bills to pay as this shutdown continues. e bills this shutdown continues.

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welcome back to "up." we begin with hour with a look at how president trump turned a traditional conflict zone visit with u.s. troops this week into a blunder-filled international escapade. so much so, in fact, that the end of his visit on the 706th day of his presidency, some iraqi lawmakers demanded u.s. forces leave the country. to start off with, the hush-hush christmas night journey was uncovered by an amateur photographer and plane enthusiast in england who recognized air force