the meeting of the executive finance committee is now in session. and... adjourned. business loans for eligible card members up to fifty thousand dollars, decided in as little as 60 seconds. the powerful backing of american express. don't do business without it. ♪ welcome to "up." president trump now blaming democrats for the deaths of migrant children at the u.s. border and it's not the first time he's played his hand. >> democrat immigration policies are destroying innocent lives and spilling very innocent blood. >> but negotiations to reopen

parts of the federal government remain at a stand still with no end in sight. >> we're in this for the long haul. plus, just in this morning what former chief of staff john kelly is reportedly saying about his time in the white house. we'll have those details. and before we say good-bye to 2018, a look back at the stories that made this year one very wild ride. >> this confirmation process has become a national disgrace. >> thanks to you, tomorrow will be a new day in america. >> welcome, everybody. sunday, december 30th. this was the year that gave late night plenty to talk about. >> he's covered in leaves and holding a giant walking stick. you'll rake the floors. >> i'm going to start at an 11.

i'm going to take it about to a 15 real quick. >> oh, he was so good. let's be honest. with me this morning, is a. scott bolden and welcome to you. i think it's your first time on "up." >> take it easy on me. >> john harwood, and ron insana. so we can both ask you guys how it is to work with one another as well. along with the conversation we're having. >> been a fabulous run. >> want me to be honest? >> yeah. that's what this panel is all about. #no fake news. i want to invite everybody to have a pastry. >> i haven't missed a meal -- >> there we go. >> we need some photo-ops for everybody. with the pastry situation. >> my doctor said i should be off sugar. so now you're talking to me. >> well, maybe we can get the smoothies on the set.

>> as long as they're sugar free. >> do we have no budget, no paper plates? >> yeah. i thought, you guys, come on, seriously. i'm being told to move on. so let's start with the very big news. a brand-new interview with john kelly. there's a lot in it and we're still working through it. "the los angeles times" saying kelly defended his tenure arguing that it's best measured by what the president did not do when kelly was at his side. and then in the interview he discusses a lot of the key immigration moments that defined the policy in the past, and now the current shutdown is in the ninth day. to be honest, get this, everybody, it is not a wall. border protection agents long ago told him they needed a physical barrier in some places and technology in others. kelly says quote, the president still says wall often times he'll say barrier or fencing. now he's tended towards steel slats but we left a solid,

concrete wall early on in the administration when we asked people what they needed and where they needed it. on the immigration program, what happened was jeff sessions, he was the one that instituted this zero tolerance process on the border that resulted in both people being detained and the families separation. he surprised us. wow. he also said he has a nuanced view on immigration. illegal immigrants overwhelmingly are not bad people, describing many as victims misled by traffickers have nothing but compassion for them and the young kids. when asked just why he remained on the job for so long despite his differences of style and substance with trump, kelly said, quote, military people do not walk away. some incredible stuff to say the least in this interview. i think a lot of us have been waiting to hear from john kelly. so it's good to hear from him firsthand with this new interview this morning. betsy, i'll start with you on

this one. i think one of the most astounding things coming out of the interview is the conversation surrounding the wall and immigration because obviously that's created what's happening with the government shutdown. i think come january 3rd, the earliest that the government would be able to open up. who knows how much longer we'll go and you have kelly now commenting on immigration along with the wall. and literally saying it's not a wall. >> it's pretty extraordinary. >> you're wondering why we haven't heard that from the president before. >> let's remember before he was chief of staff, john kelly would have from the department of homeland security so he'd know more about the messaging on the immigration policy. one thing that struck me as eyebrow raising from the interview is the fact that kelly said he has compassion for migrants traveling to the united states. i'm not exactly sure what

definition of that word would mesh with separating thousands of children from their parents. i think that raises some questions but it points to the broader fact that kelly historically over the course of his time in the white house has actually at least internally been kind of up front about the immigration questions. he ran south com the american military command, he was very close with leaders in central america, leaders in south america. very involved in a lot of the migration questions certainly came in with rhetoric and understanding of the immigration issue that didn't mesh very well with the trump administration. once he got there, he didn't actually put those views into practice. and instead, we saw an immigration that -- an administration that cracked down on immigration in a way that's really unprecedented. >> yasmine, i think that interview underscored the way that we are trapped by the president in a fantasy conversation about the wall. there isn't going to be a wall. there will never be a wall.

republicans in border states don't favor a wall. 60% of the american people don't favor a wall. the president made a completely unrealistic, up achievable -- unachievable promise in a way. but the president cannot admit that. if he said what john kelly said in that interview we wouldn't have a government shutdown. we wouldn't be in an argument. but the president is trying to figure out how to wiggle out of this without alienating a big chunk of the base and democrats aren't eager to help him do that. and so if the president were toe come out and say the same thing, government would be open tomorrow. >> it's also the single largest manufactured crisis in i think modern u.s. times. i mean, we have 7 million open jobs in the united states that we cannot fill because we have only 6.3 million unemployed. we have seen a reduction in the number of migrant workers who are necessary both legal and they're illegal -- and there are

illegal migrants who would do jobs that others won't do. not to suggest that's an appropriate way to go. but the lowest birth rate it's the lowest in 70 years and mortality has rolled over in the united states. you cannot grow your economy without growing the labor force. if you can't do it by having more babies, you have to do it through immigration. so it's really a bit of a probe here in the sense that the economic implications of shrinking the immigrant pool is actually fairly profound and it's a conversation not had frequently enough. >> yeah, i tend to agree with you. as your point that americans ought to start having more babies? >> listen -- >> i did my part. >> i did my part too. >> i have an unmarried 20-year-old daughter. >> my kids are grown and gone. >> i'm sure she appreciated that. >> i agree with each of you on this. i want to talk about january 3rd, what happens. because we keep talking about pelosi, both sides do. the reality is that these house -- the house passes a bill

that's not going to have border wall in it. it may have border security. then it goes to the senate. mitch mcconnell has a big decision to make. is he going to take that to the floor of the senate and pass it? is he going -- if it passes which i think it will, is it going to go to trump and is trump going to veto it or is he going to sign it? i don't see him signing it. then does it go back to the senate and the house to see if they can override it? i don't think it's going to get that far, but the democrats have no incentive to put money into the border wall. the president has put himself in such a box that won't have any motivation on january 3rd. the one thing to watch is to see if the senate republicans do they bend against the president, now that we have a shared government with the democrats running the house? that's the thing to watch going forward and we'll just have to see. but this showdown that i'm talking about, this is trump manufactured. he's going to own it and he's going to pay for it.

>> i want to go back to this kelly interview because there are so many points in here that i think we can discuss. when asked about who he blames for what's happening at the border he says he blamed the immigrants and lawmakers. not the white house for the tense situation at the border where thousands of central americans are stranded in mexico and two guatemalan children have died in border control custody in texas. one of the reasons why it's so difficult to keep people from coming, it would be preferable to stay in their homeland. it's a crazy loophole that makes it hard to turn people around and send them home. if we don't fix the laws then they'll keep coming. they have known and they do know that if they get here, they can generally speaking stay. betsy? >> that's not entirely correct. the numbers of people here illegally enter the united states go up and down over the

years. some of it's driven by the job prospects. much of it is driven by levels of violence. some of the most dangerous countries on the planet. the extent to which the asylum process is tweaked or not my understanding is it will have little bearing on actual levels of immigration. and this something that john kelly understands. as we said, he knows this issue probably better than anybody else in this administration. >> and the president -- this is part of the fantasy conversation. the rates of illegal immigration into the united states have declined over the last ten years. a very large chunk of people who are here illegally are visa overstays. okay? >> exactly. >> this is not the image of people scurrying across -- swimming across the rio grande and running into texas. but that's the way the president inspired the anxiety and fear among the base of -- >> as you say, he's playing to

the base. >> older, white voters and so -- >> people that are not necessarily familiar with the immigration process. believing what they hear from the president. >> exactly. >> not only that -- >> and what they read on twitter quite frankly. >> talking about putting aid in the countries who need aid. >> which will drive more immigrants to the border. >> and he's saying they're taking advantage of the united states. these are three terribly small countries that, you know, are not exactly taking the u.s. on in a meaningful way. yes, we have an occasional migrant caravan that happens in the spring when it's warmer. trafficking is something to be dealt with but we should be engaged with the countries and finding ways to improve their lot. you know, nafta was designed to do that very same thing for mexico. >> yeah. >> conceived during the reagan administration. >> i want to go to washington now because we have been talking about the shutdown and what's led to the shutdown and i want

to go to capitol hill reporter mike viqueira for the latest on the shutdown. i have been talking to you all week. it seems like you haven't moved from the spot. i hope you have gotten some sleep in the last few days, but we're headed to january 3rd. that's the earliest the government could reopen. what has changed really since then and what do we expect to happen in the coming days? >> nothing. i think we can expect to continue to see the president -- >> great. >> i think we can expect to see the president send his tweets out into the howling void. i mean, nobody around to respond to them. i think we can expect to see the white house to the extent they're appearing in public like mick mulvaney did in the driveway, it's a blatant edge between chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. no fraction at all. to try to blame nancy pelosi and highlight the fact she's weak in the democratic caucus which

restrains her from trying to make a deal now which doesn't really make any sense as a talking point because the house of representatives has already voted to approve the president's requested $5 billion for the wall that he so desperately wants. you see head fakes in public. the white house republican side leaking out the fact that when mike pence was here eight days ago and met with chuck schumer he put $2.5 billion on the table to split the difference kind of negotiating tactic but that's sort of typical in the fact that you know each sides wants to appear reasonable and they're willing to bend, to be flexible. but nothing is happening. we are on a glide path to thursday when things will start happening. >> well, it really seems like the white house is using twitter as the strategy, mike, to negotiate in the lead-up to thursday. >> right. well, if it's the strategy it's a one-sided strategy and a conversation they're having with themselves. i mean, i think frankly the democrats are perfectly willing to have the president tweet out tweets like yesterday about

putting blame on the democrats for the tragic death of those two children with absolutely no evidence whatsoever and the president as has been said it's a disgusting tweet. the president is not doing himself a lot of favors with anybody except his hard core base and it's obvious from the base that's who he's playing to. >> real quick. >> i want to say vic is one to talk about the howling void as he stands in the empty office. >> we can hear the echoes. >> hello, speaker ryan! >> all right. mike viqueira, thank you so much. we are just getting started this sunday morning, everybody. when we come back is the president's rough start dealing with the democrats in the shutdown a sign of things to come for the russia investigation? breaking news, everybody. just this morning, russian president vladimir putin returning to the ice. this time on red square playing

with nhl veterans like pavel bure. we'll talk about the letter he sent to president trump when we continue this morning and i'm sure putin won. who would let putin lose on the ice? in won who would let putin lose on the ice? for my best even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm up for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. so what's next? seeing these guys. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures.

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and two-hour appointment windows. click, call or visit a store today. kind of like that music. welcome back. we have talked a lot about about the investigations into the president over his campaign. now state and federal investigators reportedly looking into claims that supervisors at one of his private clubs provided fake paperwork to

undocumented workers. the attorney representing five undocumented former bedminster employees tells "the new york daily news" and "the washington post," he met in the attorney general's office and the fbi office. he turned over the fake green cards that supervisors at the golf club allegedly gave one of his clients among other documents. trump organization commissioners declined the comment. and romero spoke with alex witt earlier this month. >> you're saying that the trump information according to your clients, at least two of them, provided these women with the false documents? >> yes. her picture for her green card was taken inside of the golf club at the laundry and then the next day she was taken to a small town next to the golf club to pick up the documents. >> betsy, i'm going to start with you. this is a really interesting development to say the least that the undocumented workers were working for trump at the

time. that being said, and given the benefit of the doubt, do we really expect someone like president donald trump to be approving the employment of individuals like this? i think if we were to look into the background of a lot of people who run organizations like the trump organization does, the -- it doesn't necessarily make it to that point where they're approving the employment of individuals like this and they'd necessarily know that someone who was undocumented was working in the organization. i guarantee you i'll get attacked about this on twitter. >> the ceo is probably not directed involved in the particular hiring processes that said when you're the person returning a company especially a privately held company ultimately the buck stops with you. as a president if you push for a crackdown on other businesses that illegally use undocumented labor which i.c.e. has done during the trump administration at new levels, in an extraordinary way for your own business to have participated in

the practices is pretty stunning. one question here is, if this becomes a federal prosecution and if doj takes it over, what is trump going to say about that? another point we need to make is that back in -- i believe it was 2015 when trump first started running for president in the trump hotel was under construction, i think "the washington post" said that undocumented workers were working on the renovation of the building. so this is pretty much a microcosm of the way that conservative big business has had to grapple with the immigration question when simultaneously there was an effort to demonize people who employ undocumented folks but also there's the fact that businesses including the ones that trump runs have been profiting for years and years and years off of this type of labor and off the people they demonize. >> here's the legal rub to all of this. he -- >> are there any legal implications? >> absolutely. remember, donald trump is still in control and he has interests in the businesses. he was never put in the blind -- that was never put in a blind trust. second of all, if he approved

the legal policy or the hiring policy or the immigration policy within this organization, the trump organization, he could not only suffer exposure beyond the political embarrassment but the fact of the matter is the embarrassment itself and the inconsistency and the hypocrisy of his hard line on immigration compared to how he actually runs his business, his core won't hear about that, right? but the base -- >> that's all he worries about is his base at the end of the day. does it really make waves with them? >> but what he gains with this kind of focus on the core base that 35, 40% of white working class americans, he loses on the coalition that elected him because 35 to 40% simply isn't enough to get him re-elected. so he needs to build another coalition. he won't have comey in 2020. he won't have hillary clinton in 2020. so he's got to find another boogie man that's going to drive

independent suburbanites and others to take a chance on him. they took a chance then because they didn't know, they were guessing. now they know. they're probably not going to go that way. >> quickly, jonathan. >> two points here, as betsy indicated this is not trump's first rodeo with undocumented workers. >> right. >> secondly, one consistent pattern with this president is projection in accusing other people of doing things that it appears that he himself is doing and illegal immigration is one of things. >> i want to look ahead to mueller in 2019, the mueller investigation particularly, betsy n 2019. obviously, we know what's behind us. we know cohen is somewhat behind us, flynn has another sentencing hearing i believe in march coming up. manafort will be sentenced in a couple of months as well. we're kind of waiting with bated breath with roger stone, something could happen with him there as to what he knew about the release of the hillary

clinton e-mails during the campaign. what to we expect to develop in 2019 with regards to the mueller investigation and what comes first? >> there are a couple of different baskets and laying out the time line is tough to do. the first of course as you mentioned is the question of roger stone. does he get indicted, if so what for? are wikileaks or julian assange implicated? it's an important issue. the next one of course is the report that mueller is working on. he's putting together a document basically summarizing the work -- >> which we may never see. >> we'll see it. >> we'll see it. absolutely. >> here's what's going to happen. >> what do you guys know? >> i have been reporting on this all week. here's what's going to happen. the report will be put together. mueller will give it to the attorney general who's likely to be matt whitaker or bill barr. worst case scenario whitaker or barr says heck no, i'm not giving this to anyone and then

what happens is congress probably the house judiciary committee issues a subpoena demanding the document. >> here we go. >> then doj sues to quash that subpoena and it goes to federal court and some federal judge or judges has to assess whether or not congress has a right to the document. legally it's hard to game out how exactly the court would come down but i think they'll come down on the side of congress. the last basket that's very underreported -- >> let me take a guess before you say it. is it family or corporations surrounding trump? >> no. although that's another one. so you're not wrong. >> there you go. >> the one thing that i think is interesting that we have been following super closely is the question of middle eastern influence. know the the saudis were working closely with the trump administration and mueller has been doing a lot of work pulling that thread.

my colleague erin ban coe and i broke the news that he was looking at a former aide to dick cheney, john hannah. it's a lot there. the iceberg is a lot bigger underwater, but above water but we'll learn more in 2019. >> i think that's kind of central to fact that this is much bigger than we know and only mueller knows what he knows. i have heard this more than once in a variety of different venues but there's obstruction of justice in addition to all of the other elements here. some are even suggesting that's the biggest single bucket that he pursues and that's much more biting than collusion which some people would say is not a crime. conspiracy against the united states is a crime for which the president could ultimately be prosecuted but i think there's a lot still to know. >> we have a lot more ahead. so i'm going to -- you'll hear a lot more talking ahead as well. so i have to go to break, but don't worry. a lot more ahead, including what's set to be the worst wall

street performance in a decade. that's why i've got my cnbc men here. we'll get john and john to explain what the volatile swings mean for 2019. you like that, john and john? john squared. we'll be back. t, john and john john squared we'll be back. oh! oh! ♪ ozempic®! ♪ (vo) people with type 2 diabetes are excited about the potential of once-weekly ozempic®. in a study with ozempic®, a majority of adults lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than seven and maintained it. oh! under seven? (vo) and you may lose weight. in the same one-year study, adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. oh! up to 12 pounds? (vo) a two-year study showed that ozempic® does not increase the risk of major cardiovascular events like heart attack, stroke, or death. oh! no increased risk? ♪ ozempic®! ♪ ozempic® should not be the first medicine for treating diabetes,

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welcome back. it has been a gut check of a month to close out the year of the markets and many analysts expect the volatility to carry over into 2019. key indexes have plummeted an astounding 15 to 20% from their september highs. some of the key factors driving market jitters into the new year, the federal reserve's continuing campaign of increasing interest rates. the ongoing trade war with china and standoff over tariffs and finally, instability and uncertainty when it comes to decision making from the white house. i'm going to correct myself. i said john squared earlier. because it was in the prompter so i had a ron burgundy moment. it's john and ron. i just read it. ron burgundy, anybody? john and ron. you guys can weigh in on the economy as well if you like. so i'll go with my cnbc guys to start off. john harwood, what's driving --

first, let's talk about what drove the extreme volatile which we saw over the last week and so? >> i think there's uncertainty among investors and ordinary americans right now about the course of the economy, the interaction between our economy and the rest of the world. >> right. >> we have got trade war. we have got a president who seems to be somewhat erratic. he's lost his defense secretary. very turbulent administration. at a time when our economy is slowing down. and so what exactly is the outlook, what is the effect of the trade war going to be? people don't know and one of the things that we have seen especially since, you know, this is a president who has both legal exposure and political exposure as democrats take over the house. and so the recognition of all of these things makes people say this feeling of well-being that

we had in 2017 and 2018 when the market was running up and corporations -- the economy was growing, corporations was making all the money that's kind of over right now. and everybody is trying to plot what's next and they don't know. >> you and i talked earlier this week and i think it's an important point to be made that i want to bring up once again. when people look at the market volatility they think that means the economy in a downward spiral, right? that's not necessarily the case. >> well, it's certainly premature. >> premature to say that. it could be a predictor of the future with regards to the economy but as of now, job numbers are still good. it does -- market volatility doesn't necessarily equate a bad economy. >> no. we have seen a pronounced drop in the stock market as you said from the september highs to the december lows. we saw almost 20% down on the doe. more than 20% in the s&p and the nasdaq that could be emblematic of a garden variety bear market that may occur irrespective of

economic conditions. there are a whole host of uncertainties not the least of which the federal reserve will normalize interest rates going forward. there's confusion about fed policy. there's confusion about the trade war. the global economy is slowing decidedly. that's also been a factor. >> right. >> we have some technical things going on in the markets. algorithmic trading driven by computers can heighten and speed up the volatility that we see and there's rebalancing among professional investors who had to work or take money off the table which exasperated some of the moves. at the end of the day, interest rates if they keep falling are a much better predictor of weaker economy going forward than the stock market, but the stock market tends to fall either coincident with the slowdown or just before. >> so my takeaway right now, i'd be watching interest rates. and i'd be watching what's happening in washington, d.c. >> absolutely. >> i'd be listening to ron insana. >> and john harwood.

when we come back, we'll talk about why this year was all about undermining confidence in the most american of traditions -- elections. believe it or not, one midterm race is still going on and one just ended. back after this. s still going oe just ended back after this. it's time for our lowest prices of the season on

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yeah, uh...for the team... >>the team? gooo team.... know what's better than overnight shipping? free one hour pickup when you order online... or on our app. at office depot officemax welcome back to "up." this year's controversies undermine basic faith in elections for some people in the united states. even now we're still watching

the conclusions of a few key races. this past week, north carolina's election board disbanded without certifying the ninth district congressional race, capping off a contest marred by accusations of fraud. the stage now set for high drama on capitol hill this week when the new house is seated. democrats vowing to object to any attempt by republican mark harris to participate. in maine on friday, governor paul lepage sparked a firestorm with this tweet signing off on the result of a congressional race there. but adding a personal note, quote, stolen election. alabama, florida, georgia are still grappling with questions about high profile races there. let's bring back the panel to talk more about this. it seems the overarching theme here is that because there has been so much controversy with regards to many of the elections that happened at the midterms some of which as i talked about, north carolina being one of them, these elections are being undermined. i'm wondering whether americans

are not going to have a lot of confidence in their election process going forward into 2020, betsy. >> i think alabama is particularly interesting. reed hoffman a billionaire who invested in facebook very early on, publicly apologized because of funding that he provided was used by a small group boosting democrat doug jones to push disinformation against roy moore. basically a russian-style tactic. doug jones has disavowed it, has called for an investigation. it appears there's a federal investigation into this. and it shows the legacy of the 2016 election where now instead of just russians using russian-style tactics, these tactics have actually infected the american process. >> you can't come to me because i'm taking you seriously. >> is it nice to be -- >> yeah. that's the second doughnut. >> really putting it down. >> he rejected mine. >> we digress. >> you know what? what's kind of odd about this

it's been a long time since we talked about ballot stuffing back into the 1960s and whether or not people dead people voted in chicago. >> i'm from chicago. i'll tell you about all that. >> but you go back to the founding of the country there was nasty stuff going on back then too. i think we had come in modern times to really trust the system and this is a breakdown that is potentially damaging going forward. and particularly with the amount of disinformation that was just discussed. this is something we're not accustomed to that there is a systematic effort to -- it's been part of politics forever. but i mean the way it's done lately has i think had a more deleterious effect on the process than we have seen before. >> let me put this poll out there before you respond. we have a georgia exit poll, 51% are more concerned that people who are eligible to vote will be prevented from casting ballots. 42% of the voters are concerned those not eligible to vote will cast ballots. those numbers are pretty

astounding. >> they are. but they're based on real-life experiences especially for people of color. in urban areas. even in rural areas in four or five of the states you had listed at the beginning of the presentation. this is real for the people of color and why it doesn't undermine the confidence in their ability to vote, it does undermine their ability to register to vote, for their votes to count and to mean something. if you look at georgia, if you look at alabama, the federal courts have struck down the voter suppression issues on a regular basis where at least one circuit court said that republicans -- the state and governor systematically and like laser like fashion redrew these districts in order to suppress people of color from voting. that's the work that needs to be done going forward. >> scott is raising a critical question, because why does this issue have special punch?

our country is changing. we are headed within 25 years not to be a majority white country anymore. so you have special anxiety among some people, much of the trump base, about how the country is changing both with illegal and legal immigration the way the country is becoming -- it's going to be a majority/minority country. and that fuels a lot of the concern and a lot on the republican party's part, a lot of the political push to emphasize this issue. and try to tamp down some of the ways in which we make ballot access easier. >> we were concerned obviously about russian interference in our elections because it was noted that happened back in 2016. now we're concerned about domestic election interference and fraud. that is also very concerning. >> we have always had -- >> we always had that. now it's coming to light. the question is washington armed to deal with something like this to help protect citizens in the

election process? >> deal with the way in which misinformation is delivered and the speed with which it comes. >> there are 50 questions there. 50 states that run their own elections. >> i know we have to go. up next, from stormy daniels' tell all and vladimir putin, it's been an incredible 201 and we have got it all for you including a few moments that will leave you asking really? that was just this year? coming up after the break. ly that was just this year? coming up after the break.

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dr. ford has no evidence, none! meanwhile, i have got these. [ laughter ] i have got these calendars. these beautiful creepy calendars. >> matt damon and alec baldwin i have to say make "snl" these days. matt damon's take on brett kavanaugh's confirmation hearing was one of the takes on the year.

watch. >> the post reported trump said why are we having all of these people from [ bleep ] countries coming here. >> there were buildings waiting to be identified for over a day. six minutes and 20 seconds with an ar-15 and my friend carmen would never complain to me about piano practice. >> i was like someone should take that magazine and spank you with it. >> you told donald trump to take off his pants? >> yes. >> the two leaders sizing each other up with a hand shake. >> this is the first time ever that children have been separated on the systematic basis. people in here are locked up in cages what looked like animal kennels. >> i have president putin, he just said it's not russia. i will say this. i don't see any reason why it would be. >> the america of john mccain has no need to be made great america because america was always great.

>> tweeting today, 3,000 people did not die in the two hurricanes that hit puerto rico. >> puerto rico was an incredible unsung success. >> this confirmation process has become a national disgrace. i'm innocent of this charge. >> thanks to you, tomorrow will be a new day in america. dynamic, diverse, incredible candidates who have taken back the house for the american people. >> i am proud to shut down the government for border security, chuck. i will be the one to shut it town. >> are you unhappy that 2018 is almost behind us? >> i'm afraid of 2019. >> seriously. we asked our ace panel about 5:00 a.m. to add this list of story best defining the world of politics in 2018. betsy, give me your best. >> i think the murder and dismemberment of khashoggi. >> why?

>> it presented a huge question for the foreign policy and it shook the most important relationships to the u.s. and it has the potential to fundamentally change that. it also raised huge basic moral questions. what does the united states do when a journalist gets brutally killed? it brought much more attention to saudi arabia's relationship in that region, particularly the war they're prosecuting in yemen using american-made weapons and an american-made weapon was used to destroy a school bus. that didn't get a ton of attention until khashoggi was murdered and then the way that the administration responded to it is shocking. you have mike pompeo saying we don't know who asked for it. that's crazy. >> john harwood? >> look, i think that moment when donald trump and vladimir putin held the news conference in helsinki. the russia story has loomed over the administration throughout.

but that -- the juxtaposition of the two men, the deference that donald trump showed to vladimir putin was a demonstration that something is wrong with this picture. we don't know exactly what that is. and robert mueller may tell us that later this year. but everyone could see when this president rebutted the findings of his own intelligence agencies and sided with vladimir putin that was a stark moment. >> yeah. there were a lot of startling press conferences this year. not only that one, but the one with kim jong-un. a. scott bolden? >> i think the midterms, the democrats taking the house, 40 seats which is the result, real result of all the top stories you have mentioned. whether it was kavanaugh, whether it was charlottesville. just the hypocrisy of the leadership of this country that democracy works that we have the most diverse house of representatives in the history of this country. we have more women. i think in the end that's going to win out because that's who we are as americans and it's going

to win out and continue in 2020. >> ron insana? >> i thought the wall was most emblematic of things happening not only here but around the world. the fact of the deconstructism of the state not only here, but in britain and in eastern europe, you have a wave of populism gripping the entire planet right now. i think the wall is most emblematic of that and represents one of the biggest problems we have. if we shrink in country by country it's a precursor to bigger problems down the world. economic wars sometimes lead to shooting wars and walls are particularly dangerous. i think that's what a mindset that is unusual in modern times. >> yeah. unbelievable, guys. been a fantastic panel to say the least. a really good hour with you. i appreciate you all joining me at this hour. can we give a cheers with our doughnuts here. >> happy new year. >> cheers. >> thank you, guys, all very

much. i appreciate it. coming up next, the shutdown blame game kicks into high gear with the president's rhetoric reaching what some say is a new low. we'll talk to incoming democratic caucus vice chair congresswoman kathryn clark about what's next. plus, john kelly breaks his silence. what the president's soon to be former chief of staff is saying about his time in the white house. he had a lot to say and we'll break it all down for you. keep it right here, everybody. you're watching msnbc. you're watching msnbc. breathe freely fast, with vicks sinex.

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♪ welcome back to "up." rolling into hour two. i'm yasmin vossoughian in for david gura. a brand-new interview just out this morning from outgoing chief of staff kelly who defends his tenure and weighs in on the stalemate over border wall funding that's led to government showdowns and now starting the ninth day. kelly splits with his boss saying quote to be honest, it's not a wall. he also says if you want to stop illegal immigration stop u.s. demand for drugs and expand economic opportunity in central america. he also has a more compassionate tone saying quote, illegal immigrants overwhelmingly are not bad people. i have nothing but compassion for them. the young kids. that's a stark difference of course from the president who took to twitter yesterday to

politicize the death of two immigrant children who died in u.s. border patrol custody to score political points to fund his border wall. tweeting, any deaths of children or others at the border are strictly the fault of the democrats and their pathetic immigration policies referring to the deaths of 8-year-old felipe alonzo gomez who died on christmas morning. just two weeks after the death of this 7-year-old guatemalan child, jakelin maquin. joining me this hour, katie fang, matt welch, editor at large for reason magazine, ellie and maria, the president of the future media group. >> you got it. >> as soon as we get our plates i'll welcome everyone to grab a do