all of the presidents men are leaving but they are not going quietly. in a letter commemorating outgoing defense secretary wrote our department has proven to be at its best when the times are most difficult which is a lot subtler than he was where he said my views on treating allies with respect and also being clear eyed about both actors and competitors are strongly held and informed by over four decades in these issues because you have the right to have a secretary of defense john kelly sat down for a lengthy interview with the l.a. times where he publicly contradicted the president's key campaign promise and justification for shutting down t

the government. that big beautiful border wall that he likes to quote all of the time. here is john kelly. to be honest it's not a wall. the president still says wall. oftentimes he'll say barrier or fencing. he is tended towards steel slats. we left early on in the administration. somebody should probably relay that information to the president though. he tweeted this morning an all concrete wall was never abandoned as has been reported by the media. some will be all concrete. the experts prefer a wall that is see through it makes sense to me. with me now is han -- and staff writer natasha. hans, the white house, interesting now days. they have some open positions and they have some pretty

scathing resignation letters to contend with. is that somebody over the loud speaker telling you what to say? >> potentially. if they are they are joining the voices in my ear. >> sorry. >> i think it was on your guys end. there aren't necessarily openings here they are actings. there is a difference between being chief of staff and acting chief of staff. acting means you are temporary. it diminishes your authority. it is also the department of defense to have an acting person in a position that is typically there that is senate confirmed is a different dynamic. i think the key question going forward is will they challenge the president and how will

mulvaney challenge the president? as we know secretary mattis and john kelly clearly did. they are willing to tell the president no on some occasions. >> and in their exit interviews to say what the policies really are behind the scenes or at least what they believe the policies are. that is in contrast to the way the president sees it. when john kelly says there was never really a barrier, a border wall we abandoned that a long time ago but the president tweets we never abandoned it. who is telling the truth? is nobody talking to the president and saying no. we did or is the president -- i just -- what do we make of that? >> right. they had abandoned it. the messages had been steel slats, steel slats. the president said call it whatever. they were calling it a fence.

then he said in a tweet they wanted it to be see through chi think is another way to say slats or offense. yeah. that was -- i don't think, you know, general kelly necessarily thought he was contradicting the president or the president was going to snipe back at him over that. the reality has been gone for quite some time in the white house. that possibly doesn't go over well with his base but also i don't think they are that committed to concrete unless you're in the concrete business. they just want a barrier. they want a permanent barrier. >> who do they want to pay for it? he kept saying it would be mexico. do they want taxpayer to pay for it or want mexico to pay for it? >> so the whole issue about, yeah, mexico paying for the wall, it goes back to do you take the president seriously or literally? however it gets paid for they really want this wall.

that's the thing people who covered this campaign, you know how big an issue this wall was. they feel like if there is a wall or some barrier it could outlast this administration and solve this immigration crisis they perceive. it could stop all of these problems they perceive come from immigration. that's why it is so important. it makes it something they would be willing for the u.s. to pay for. >> here is the thing, when i talk to trump supporters on the road during the 2016 campaign and asked them what if a wall doesn't get built, because it was a consensus the wall was not feasible the way he was selling it. those that liked donald trump were very forgiving of him. they said even if he doesn't build a wall i will stit support him. i wonder how tied they are to that campaign promise or if it is just right wing radio that's really tied to that campaign

promise. it is not a promise because it said mexico would pay for the wall. talking about james mattis and his resignation, the president said that he is not really -- he doesn't find it to be that urgent that he replaced james mattis with somebody. he was pretty scathing in his resignation letter. what sort of hole does it leave and where do we go from here? >> we had never seen anything like that. it was a high level figure resigning it includes whether or not we are going to maintain those relationships that we maintained over the past couple of decades. i think it leaves a big hole. we also see they resigned over

the same issues. >>. >> he said he didn't know him which is a problem in and of itself. it seems like it is more loyalists. look what he is doing with the justice department. he installed matthew whitaker. he is moving forward with installing bill bar which insulted the mueller investigation. it seems like trump is wanting to be enabled rather than constrained. it is a free for all.

>>. >> what would you say? >> i would say no. it is important for me to work for people i think are basically honest, who tell the truth as best they know it. >> you think he is a liar? zbli don't think he tells the truth. >> is trump immoral in your view? >> i think he is. >> pretty incredible, right? >> yeah. >> i think when we talk about mattis we talk about what it really comes down to for a lot of people that cover these issues is iraq and syria. it was a huge issue. mattis really believed in the cause. we only had 2000 fighters in syria. it was something he had taken to. i think the troop withdraw is what set him off. >> there are those out there

that will argue we shouldn't be there. we shouldn't be fighting if foreign wars. we have no business being there. was there a way to remove u.s. troops or remove our presence or downgrade our presence there without setting off his generals? >> i don't really think so. we are already at 2000 troops in syria, right? it is downgrading that troop level anymore. so i think it is hard to talk about for so many reasons. it is a humanitarian disaster. there has been very little reprieve. so any which way i think we move will cause some conversation. i think a total troop withdraw is something that maybe we are not drad fready for at this poi. the generals we talked to, the troops on the ground that were briefed on the ground they are sitting there, you know, in their operating base saying your

mission is done there. they don't feel like it is done here. they are being redeployed to other parts of the middle east. i think they don't feel the job is done on isis. so i think that's really something that we should be talking about. >> i think it raises the question of where the president's allegiance lies. allowing them to fill that and have the assad regime who was never interested in fighting isis in the first place. and also having turkey now move in and defeat the kurds but turkey was saying we don't know how to deal with this situation if the u.s. isn't there because there's a much bigger space here than just the kurds that we have to figure out how to fill. what it does, i think this is why it made it such central point to say we need to standby and push back against these

regimes because it is another example of cozying up and listening to the last person who was in its ear. >> i wonder how much it is for donald trump's position on what to do over seas and how much -- versus how much of it is his inability to tell the truth and what sort of leader he is. he said he wasn't moral. he said he does not tell the truth. he all but used the word liar. it doesn't seem to be -- i mean among people talking privately at least that's not an outrageous sentiment in washington. everyone seems to -- or most people seem to be believe donald trump doesn't tell the truth. does the white house worry about that down the line when they need real allies?

>> there are those that will go out on television and standby the @president and say they know he doesn't tell the troouth. >> at this point too it will be something he has to contend with when he runs for reelection. that was the white house focus is really on reelection on 2020 right now even though that seems like a long ways away. on november it was reelection. they will think about whether that is a liability. i think they see a bigger liability being anything that would alienate his base of supporters and feeling like he has not followed through on his promises. so you'll keep hearing him talk about the promise to withdraw

troops from the middle east. the promise on the wall. the whole 2020 slogan is promises made, promises kept. so they are now sort of single mindedly focused on doing the things he said he was going to do. he will probably say they were done anyway. he is already, you you know, talked about parts of the wall that aren't actually completed. >> he is all over the place because it needs to be. and needs extra money. it might be a promise he can say he has. he cannot say he kept the promise on the wall even if he keeps 5 billion to do so. his promise was that mexico would pay for it. not that the american taxpayer was going to pay for it. i think it's important to point that out clearly every time we talk about this idea that he is all out there to fulfill promises for his base. hans nichols, sorry about that.

thank you and hp appy new year. >> thanks. elizabeth warren spoke to reporters and announced she is going to build a grass roots campaign as she considers a run for president. she also had questions addressing criticism she is too polarizing for the national stage. that's next. polarizing for the national stage. that's next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ comfort. what we deliver by delivering.

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like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. spoke to reporters outside

her home about why she is considering a run for president. here is what she said when a reporter asked if she was too polarizing for the national stage. >> america's middle class is getting hollowed out and the opportunity for our young people is shrinking. i'm in this fight all the way. it is already. it is from all across this country who will be part of it. i understand what's happening to working families. i run for office because i'm grateful down to my toes for the

opportunities that were given to me. i am determined that we will give those same opportunities not just to some of our kids but to all of our kids. i think when we fight for something positive and something big. we were there we his beth warren. we have tiffany cross here and one of the editors, john is here. >> it is clearly trying on today's new cycle to get that out there in front of the 2020 race. where does she land among potential 2020 democrats. or what challenges is she likely

to face? >> this little press conference was a test of her early message discipline. i think we have seen her pass with flying colors. no matter what the question she faced here about her elect blt, about how she differentiates herself from others in this case she kept on about democrats needs to show they need to walk the walk and fight the fights about a system towards the special interests against the middle and working class. she was asked about the dna test, whether it was a mistake given some of the backlash she faces. she said it is all about transparency. i put it out there and she returned to this idea of fighting on behalf of the working class. and so i should mention that in terms of it's a little too early for running mates early but she did have her walking mate, her eight month old golden retriever

here at this -- i know joe biden recently announced that he had his own golden -- excuse me, german shepherd. we are beginning to introduce themselves to the public. also one other thing i should mention, she is left here, her home to go make some more phone calls. she talked about the importance of small dollar donations of a grass roots campaign not just for herself but all democrats. >> is she going to make a promise or a pledge to not take large checks or not to -- or to try distance herself from any super pack that might be formed in her benefit? >> i mean this is part of senator warren's brand. she has one of the strongest

e-mail lists among democrats in the country. all of her materials today, her video, her e-mail, her comments to us just now seem to send a clear signal that's the kind of campaign she intends to rurngs one based on small dollar donations. in all of the events that i covered during the midterm elections, one of the biggest applause was rejecting super pack money. there lab lot of pressure on some of the other candidates to reject those. >> i wonder if it includes bigger checks from large donors or those sorts of large donor fundraisers that are held in a candidates benefit. elizabeth warren, how do you feel about her as a potential

2020 candidate? >> i think it's a fundraising power house she has found the sweet spot that will encourage a lot of small donors to contribute to her campaign. we have to remember how the primaries are set up. with california moving to march 3rd it will take a fundraising power house to survive that. you're talking baseline $5 million to do that. she will be going up for potentially newsome. she is going to need that type of fundraising capability. i think she will be great. i think a strong point is her focus on diversity. it is a time people are not only looking at candidates but at what your team looks like. she named a new chief of staff, a black woman, very important voting block, her campaign team is very diverse. it goes to tens of thousands of people across the country. her team always engages us when they are looking to hire people. they place job ads in our

platform rather. it has a lot of skill in that space. i would say there's been a lot of talk she's the first to put herself out there. that's not true. castro formed an exploratory committee. he is fundraising. i don't think we can overlook him. he can put a dent in texas. i think we have a competitive feel before us. >> we can talk about him as well as elizabeth right here. do either one of them pull away? >> no. i mean i don't think that's what's going on here is the question whether or not you can establish yourself as a credible candidate in the first six months before the debate starts. i think it will be clear because of the way everybody from the media to every voter will have a sorting mechanism by which they say here is seven or eight people we need to pay attention

to and here are the 14 we probably don't. maybe one or two or three of them will sneak up during the second part of 2019. she is here to say she is in the race. she is running this middle class message which is very smart because the democratic party, some of its emphasis is on diversity to the -- maybe to the exclusion of the sort of suffering middle class. and so she is staking out a very mainstream message. it is good for her. the dna stuff a month ago was a disaster much more solid appearance today than when she did the dna. >> let's talk about the voters in 2020. those are the voters that made up what was once the blue wall in the upper midwest and potentially the blue collar working class voters in pennsylvania as well.

is she one that will appeal more than donald trump will in 2020? >> technically she shouldn't. she is an ivy league professor. she is literally. >> donald trump shouldn't either. she is a billionaire that lives in a town in new york city. >> she is an ivy league law professor who came up, you you know, sort of out of nowhere as a political force fighting against or fighting for greater wall street regulation. that's fine, but the question is can she credibly say i'm here to fight for precisely those trump voters. i think compared to a bunch of people in the race as lodge as she hits the message effectively if the message is effective and well heard then sure she can appeal. >> i wonder if she has the benefit in 2016, 2017, 2018 that voters become kind of immune to

that. >> she already has her nickname. >> right. >> there will be no surprise. >> you'll want to know. >> that's a good point. happy new year. >> happy flu year new year to y. i hope it is the last hit of the hour, my friend. thank you, guys. >> it is chilly out here. a quick heads up, senator warren will join rachel maddow only on msnbc. something has got to give to get the government back open. the longer both sides wait the worst things seem to get for federal workers. are we any closer to a deal? e wr 25% of your mouth.

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2018 will end without a solution to the partial government shutdown. the house and senate each held brief sessions with both chambers adjourned without taking any votes. house democrats have decided on a plan after they take control of the chamber on thursday. msnbc joins me now from capitol

hill. what is the plan by or for house democrats. >> house democrats planned to put a lot of pressure on republicans to act by passing a series of measures out of the house that shows they are here and ready govern and ready to do so responsibly. they will pass six of the seven outstanding spending bills to open portions of the government and they will fund those six departments through the whole year, there all of the fiscal year of 2019. they will also pass a continuing resolution funding the department of homeland security. just until february locking it in at the same rate it has been will give the president about $1.3 billion in border security. what it will do again is show that democrats are here. they are serious. they are ready to move the ball forward.

it would place a lot of pressure on the republican controlled senate and on the president to act in some way themselves. >> is this a game of chicken to see if who will break first? >> it is part of the political calculus here. they want to say they are willing to put a vote forward. on the republican side you have someone like mark meadows that will find it slightly diminished here. he still has the president's ear. he tweeted a little while ago saying it is something that would be dead on arrival. it doesn't really come back and say what might pass. that is the problem here. until we know what the president supports, yeah, republicans can keep saying no to different things but there has to be an off ramp here. that's where democrats might hold better cards here. they will come back there on thursday and move something, anything forward and republicans haven't been able to really do

that in a way that looks promising at this point. >> are republicans without the wall or are they only against it because the president is suddenly now against it? >> i'm really glad you asked this question. i think it is one of those opportunities where if democrats wanted to call the president's bluff, imagine if they add more to this spending bill. if they said we'll give you $6 billion for border security but it can't go to the wall. what would republicans do in that case? they are doing it to a slightly lesser degree. we are willing to responsibly fund on a bipartisan basis all of the bills that will be worked out under a republican controlled senate. we want to have that debate separately. how is it not good enough that something already passed the senate is now suddenly not good enough because the president opposed it. they are doing that a little bit. if they really wanted to do that they could throw more money at

border security and say it can't be for the wall. that would be interesting. >> raising interesting points. thank you very much. >> thanks. the president's attorney has a new warning for special counsel robert mueller. >> who do you have? there are those that want to believe you don't have anything on collusion. by the way, if you did it's not a crime. what do you have on collusion? >> mueller isn't the only legal concern for donald trump. he has a whole host of other legal problems as well. let's take a look at them. there is an investigation as to what foreign governments might have given.

and of course there's always the cases involving the constitutional clause that bans the president from profiting from the office. joining me former new york congresswoman elizabeth who voted to impeach president nixon. the case for impeaching trump is in bookstores right now. also with me university of alabama joyce vance. she is also an msnbc contributor. we'll leave that aside. the president is facing a lot in 2019. if you were his council what would you be doing? >> i would be from pairing on all fronts it is very serious.

there also the impending congressional investigations that will kick in when the house flips democratic on january 3 rds. the president has a lot of issues. he needs to be preparing on all fonts to deal with them. it doesn't look like that's what's going on. >> you talk about the justice department's integrity and a new article for slate. i'll read it to you. you say the justice department's integrity is at stake. it is believed to work for the president not the people concern that doj independence is compromised will become a certainty. the implication of losing public confidence in our justice system are far greater than the concerns about just this president. expand on that. >> you know, one thing that you understand as a federal prosecutor is that you only have the credibility to do your work, to prosecute cases that people

in the community believe that you have. if you're going to be making decisions about who gets indicted and who gets prosecuted then the community has to have good faith of belief that you're doing that with integrity. the criticism that i make is less of a person. he has a reputation. he served as attorney general previously. the problem is because he has written this 20 page memo indicating the president shouldn't be prosecuted on obstruction grounds and it was sent over and made it to the white house before his name surfaced it looks to people out in the community as though what's happening here is the president is appointing a wing man rather than appointing an attorney general who will look at the law with independence. it is with all of the doj's work. >> there is one side of this.

>> you were there when we impeached a president. you voted for impeachment for richard nixon. how do you believe the house should take this up in 2019? >> i don't think impeachment is inevitable. but what's impeachment? in watergate and in the impeachment process. it was investigations. that was -- those who carried out by the committee which did an amazing job which covered the white house taping system. they brought witnesses in front of the committee. the public had a chance to examine the demeanor of john dean, the top aids. they understood what was happening. it was a huge public education process. i was a huge investigation process. that's what's going to happen now. it could lead into impeachment

because the president could wind up fighting this tooth and nail and look as though he has something to hide, which is how he looks right now but there could be other factors that could come out. the republicans tried to do that. they didn't have public hearings. people couldn't see the demeanor of donald trump junior or kushner. everybody had to testify in front of the camera. right here and right now we are going to have that. will it turn to impeachment? who knows? >> do you think it's possible to do it as it was down with rif richard nixon without it getting so completely partisan or if it's not partisan on capitol hill and among talking heads to where the public can make an unbiassed and uninformed decision? >> i think congress has to do it in the right way. there was no vote count in the

house judiciary committee. we didn't know what the constitution required. there was no vote count in the senate. we approached this by saying we will do it in the right way. the democrats picked a republican general council to run the impeachment insquiquiry. this is not going to be a partisan got you operation. this is going to be fair and thorough and meticulous and professional. it worked. ultimately the american people who voted for richard nixon in the 1972 election not only called for that but supported the impeachment vote in the house judiciary committee. it can happen. >> you know what? it was fascinating. my mother went to the watergate hearings. she says it was fascinating. it watch them now. it is an old footage. it is fascinating not in person

for me. i'm getting educated on it. i'm talking myself into a hole. elizabeth, thank you very much. happy new year. thank you as well. happy new year to you as well. >> thank you. remembering the icons we lost in 2018 up next. lost in 2018 up next ay focused. hard work baby, it gonna pay off. the new sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movement and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. and now, the queen sleep number 360 c4 smart bed is only $1299. plus, 24-month financing on all beds. ends new year's day.

in 2018 we said good-bye to a former commander in chief. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ leave your worries on the doorstep ♪ ♪ life can be so sweet on the sunny side of the street ♪ >> don't forget the bubbley. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ >> he's probably the most important chef of the last 100 years. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> i shall call him mini me. ♪ ♪ spo ♪ spongebob square pants >> all i was doing was having fun. ♪ >> how did you get in here? >> i decided to accept your invitation. ♪ >> he's got to go for it! >> big 6'3". ♪ so wake me up when it's all over when i'm wiser and i'm older ♪ ♪

♪ >> i accept his revelation of himself by faith. ♪ ♪ and i will love you ♪ only heartbreak for me >> i've had the good fortune to spend 60 years in service to this wondrous land. it's not been perfect service, but i try to deserve the privilege as best as i can. >> i see history as a book with many pages, and each day we fill a page with acts of hopefulness and meaning. ♪

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you might be ready to pop the champagne, but other people around the world are already getting to pop their champagne.

in auckland, the clock struck idnight around 5:00 a.m. time. dubai at the top of the hour. but in eight hours, just a couple minutes, the eyes of the world will be on new york city where an estimated million people are already starting to flood times square. despite times square getting flooded by rain. trying to get a good spot to watch the ball drop. but 7,000 police officers will be keeping their eyes on the crowd so don't do anything bad. nbc news' matt bradley is in times square. matt, i hear it's very loud and that i have to yell. what's going on down there? >> well, we're starting to hear some of the music. some practicing setting up for the night. we're starting to hear some of the musical acts coming out. and katy, i know you're jealous i get to be standing here all night in the rain and the cold while you have to sit in a heated studio. i'm sorry about that. but here, people are actually pretty happy. i've been walking around talking to people in the crowd.

they are all super psyched to be out here. a lot of them have been watching this since they were kids. they made big journeys from all over the country. and it won't surprise you that there's almost no native new yorkers here. but the big news for security is that this year, the nypd is going to be lofting several drones over times square. that's the new thing. they're going to be basically tethered to the ground or to buildings and they'll be circulating around here. those will join some 1200 surveillance cameras across the city that police will be able to tap into when and if they need to see what's going on in times square or anywhere else for that matter. and it's not going to surprise you at all that the security here as you just said is really, really tight. the place is filled with police officers, with bomb-sniffing dogs, all of the streets up and down times square have been blocked off since about 4:00 a.m. this morning. and already, hours and hours before midnight, we're starting

to see thousands and thousands of people flooding into times square. they're wearing ponchos. some of them wearing trash bags with arms cut out. some of them are even wearing diapers. they told me that. the myth is true. it turns out people do wear diapers to times square because of the shortage of bathrooms. it's that desperate here but as miserable as it looks, people here are having a really great time. >> i do not understand, genuinely do not understand why anyone wants to stand around in the rain for eight hours in a diaper. that's just me. >> you should come out here, katy, and meet everybody. i'd love to hear from you. >> i could. my husband is out there. >> it's so much fun. >> find my husband and give him a nice pat on the back. you guys -- >> i'll give him -- i'll give him a hand warmer. i've got a couple of them. >> he probably needs one. matt bradley, good luck.

>> we all do. >> good luck tonight. >> thank you. >> keep the diapers handy. anyway. be sure to usher in 2019 on nbc. our very own lester holt will push the crystal button that lowers the new year's eve ball. lester is representing the committee to protect journalism, also a wonderful organization. this year's efforts by organizers to celebrate journalism and free speech around the world. so, guys, the time is near. the mission is clear. it is later than we think. 2018 is coming to a close, and you'll want something to drink. the white house is trapped in time and congress doesn't know what to do. these schemes of theirs, we can see right through. so i took a moment from my day and wrapped it up in things you say and mailed it off to your address. you'll get it pretty soon, unless d.c. stays silent in the morning. so time to put your money where your mouth is. deduct the carrots from your pay

you worthless slompy fool. watch the big core crack and glow. i talked to mike christian, raj and pete the same. they gave some last advice. give the director a serpent deflector, a mud rat detector, a cushion convectsor, a picture of necter. and whatever you do, take care of your shoes. see you in 2019. "deadline white house" begins right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in washington, d.c. there had to be a silver lining to the president's penchant for lying about things big and small and we found it. job security for the fact checkers. keeping track of donald trump's false and misleading statements is around the clock endeavor. donald trump is ending the year having told more than 6,000 lies