the government. does their plan have a chance to make it through a republican senate and white house. one day into 2019 and two days into warrens likely presidential campaign, president trump is taking sholts at his possible 2020 opponent. new year, new pass? kim jong-un is ready for more talks with president trump but issues a warning against continued sanctions. his list of demands for 2019. we begin with day 11 of the shutdown and the impact felt outside washington. look at this headline. park bathrooms overflowing with human waste. few staff on duty today. a problem likely to continue tomorrow when congress returns. the two sides just as far apart in 2019 as 2018. house democrats now in charge are scheduled to vote thursday on a plan to fund everything for

president trump's border wall. the president showing no indication he would sign it, rather, in an interview with fox news, president trump was adamant the wall must be funded. >> a lot of supporters are hoping you will stand firm on the wall. are you willing to continue the shutdown if the money does not come? >> we are. we have no choice. we have to have border security. >> joining me now, this first day of the new year, nbc news white house correspondent, jeff bennet, my clegg at the white house. garrett on capitol hill. charlie and msnbc contributor, barney frank, former democratic congressman. thank you for being here and happy new year to you guys. jeff, i want to start off with you. i would like you to set the scene here and the stakes. how is president trump trying to

frame this debate, he canceled new year's and he's been at the white house trying to handle all of this and, yet, no signs he is ready to make a deal. >> great to see you, kristin. >> reporter: the president's message is he is here in washington, at the white house, ready, willing and able to do a deal. that talk, that rhetoric hasn't been backed up by action. as we understand, the president has not talked to democratic leaders in at least ten days and is in no mood to make concessions as aides tried to soften his position saying the border wall was a metaphor for border security. we have seen how the president undermined them. here is the latest tweet. the democrats, as i suspected, allocated no money for a new wall. so imaginative. the problem is, this is the key part, the problem is, without a key wall, there can be no border security and our country must finally have a strong border.

add to the tweet, what the president had to say to fox news in an interview last night. take a look. >> you know, i hear so much about the wall is old fashioned. no, the wall is not old fashioned, it is 100% foolproof. look at a wheel. i guess the wheel is old fashioned, but it's been around for a long time. >> reporter: if it wasn't already clear, president trump has dug in. now you have house democrats daring him, calling his bluff, daring him and senate republicans to keep the government closed with this new government spending bill, this measure they are going to introduce on thursday, which garrett knows about. >> that's right. we are going to pick up with garrett. garrett, what, specifically, are the democrats offering? again, i want to stress this point, the democrats are daring the president to keep the government closed. how much leverage do we have? >> daring the president and

mitch mcconnell. the democratic plan is two-fold. first, they want to pass six appropriations bill that are bipartisan. they have been negotiated and sitting around, ready to go. that would open the vast majority of the government. it takes all this off the table. then pass a second bill that is short term for the department of homeland security. it includes 1.3 billion dlar$1. border security, not a wall. here is how democrats describe it in a joint statement from pelosi and schumer. if they refuse to support the first bill, they are complicit with president trump in continuing the shutdown. the theory, for democrats, is passing the two measures, you put all the political weight and pressure on mitch mcconnell and senate republicans to reopen the government. the senate republicans said they don't want to act until they

know what president trump will support. we don't think it will be this. house democrats coming in with their new majority can pass it quickly on thursday and wash their hands with it. this is now up to the republicans who control the other two-thirds of government to come up with something they can do. it does place enormous pressure on mcconnell and the president to come up with something that can pass in a more republican controlled senate in the congress. >> it is going to be a pressure point if and when they do pass the legislation. representative frank, pick up on that point. this is the president's response to the democrat's offer. he said, yesterday, the democrats will submit a bill, being cute as always. as garrett and jeff said, the president is not showing any indications, at this point and time he is going to sign off on this. what do you make of the democrats strategy? is it smart or do they start to

lose leverage? >> first of all, i think it's the right public policy. i think it is also smart. a couple things have to be made here. first of all, the president is saying he is committed to this because it was his cam pan promise. no it wasn't. it was for a wall built by mexico. he is not asking for that. now, some argue it's only 5 billion. no, it's tens of billions. five billion makes no sense unless it is the first step in a larger expenditure. in the last election we had, the question of how to deal with immigration, the democrats won big in the house races, the one national race we had. the final point is this, divided government is the norm in america. one party having total control is the exception. the question is, how do you deal with that? the problem is, trump's having

said in that meeting with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, if i don't get what i want, i'll have a shutdown. you can't do that in divided government -- >> go ahead. >> the point is there were two causes of a shutdown. one is, if you can't agree on anything. the other is, that's where we are here, there is substantial agreement on most of the government. there's one disagreement. if you say, i insist that my opponents accept something they hate as the cost of going forward, then you are going to have this kind of shutdown forever. the more serious way to do it -- >> let me press you on that. democrats are going to have control of the house. they now, even though the president said in the oval office, he owns the shutdown, don't they run the risk of

looking like obstructionists if they don't look like an attempt to compromise? >> i don't think so. here is what they are putting on the table, what the senate passed. what the democrats are talking about is a bill that the senate passed and everybody expected trump to sign until rush limbaugh yelled at him. the constitution says the president can veto a bill and two-thirds override him. it's unusual in american history, he won't allow any bill to pass the senate unless trump gives prior approval. that gives the president an absolute veto. i don't think that's something we ought to give into. >> charlie, where do we go from here? does the president need to come to the table at this moment, after all, i go back to the moment i just emphasizeed, that

president trump is on camera in the oval office saying i would be proud to own this shutdown. is he backed into a corner? >> he's enjoying this. that's why we are going to be here for a very, very long time. we are not anywhere close to this. >> you think so? that's important. a very long time. you don't think it ends this week when the democrats come back? >> no, i don't. the border wall is crude, fraudulent, bait and switch, the mexicans were supposed to pay for it. we are talking about what donald trump wants to talk about. he is setting the agenda. two, he has the foil that he wants. he wants to be able to run against nancy pelosi and the democrats. much easier for him to do than a republican congress. this plays to his base. this is a president who revels in dysfunction and chi i don't say. i actually think it's going to be a very, very long time for him to come to the table. both sides entrenched

themselves. donald trump, apparently is unwilling to go against rush limbaugh and ann coulter. he's not going to take that move. i can't imagine democrats are going to come up with $1 for the wall. >> i have been talking to allies saying the way he handled this is disastrous. he's used his time at the white house, yes, he didn't go to mar-a-lago, but he spent time tweeting. why didn't he hold public events or out making the points you are making and add to the fact the definition of what he wants is changing. he wants a concrete border wall, then lindsey graham emerges from a lunch saying the wall is a metaphor. kellyanne conway saying it's a met tor. kelly saying he backing away

from it a long time ago. the crux of his campaign promise keeps shifting. >> absolutely. they are all great points. the president has been invisible. he could have been on television every day pushing his case. also, you had all the aides trying to offer him an off ramp. they were trooiing to offer him an easy way out. it's a metaphor, border security part of the other package. the president goes to the most dumbed down version of this, the wall. that is the applause line at the rally. the fact that the president had ways of finessing it is why we are going to be here a very, very long time. >> can you put a figure on that? a very long time. do you think it's resolved by the end of the month? >> that requires me to get into his head. i'm not ready to go into his

head in 2019, yet. >> fair enough. i want to shift topics and talk about 2020. this a announcement we got yesterday. i would like you to weigh in on the fact that elizabeth warren is the first candidate to unofficially enter the 2020 race. what did you make of the timing of her announcement? is it smart timing? have you decided whether rnt you would support her? >> in terms of support, there's a common argument. people say i'm for none of the above. i'm for all of the above. at this point, my argument is going to be any of the democratic candidates who people are talking about running would be so much better from almost every democrat standpoint than donald trump we ought not fight with each other. yes, there should be a primary. i hope nobody will engage in the

he or she is no good rhetoric. secondly, i don't think i know at this point. electability is very important for me. elizabeth warren would be a superb president. she knows how the government works. it depends. the race in 2020 is going to be against donald trump. charlie makes a good point. trump dominates the agenda. not necessarily to his advantage. on the question of border security, trump made it the issue, which the democrats won heavily. if you are wondering what is the public's reaction, trump is on the losing side, heavily. a very democratic win in the house. beyond that, i don't know exactly in a year from now, what is going to be the best way for the democrats to run. i'm holding off to support a candidate who i think has the best chance to defeat him. between now and then, i'm going to urge democrats, let's

remember that trump is the guy who is our opponent. he differs on every point to us. >> the race unofficially began yesterday. a lot will be following in this new year. thank for a fantastic conversation and starting off the show on a strong note. thanks to all of you. >> sure. coming up, much more on the 2020 race and elizabeth warren's potential run for the white house. we are going to delve into that and how president trump is trying to discredit one of his favorite political foes. >> and a message from kim jong-un. that's when we come back. m kim jong-un. that's when we come back delicious boost® high protein nutritional drink now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. boost® high protein

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president trump is kicking off 2019 with an eye toward 2020 making senator elizabeth warren his first political target after he announced her exploratory committee. >> she did very badly in proving she was of indian heritage. that didn't work out too well. i think you have more than she does. maybe i do, too, and i have nothing. we'll see how she does. i wish her well. i would love to run against her.

>> she says she is in the fight all the way, mr. president. do you think she believes she can win? >> that, i don't know. you have to ask her psychiatrist. >> brutal line of attack. senator warren rang in the new year with her husband an instagram and a group of followers. let's bring in mike and jeff. thank you for being here and happy new year. >> happy new year. >> mike, i have to start with you. you have been very busy. you were out in massachusetts on new year's eve. we never give you a break. tell us what you heard from senator warren and how she rolled out her announcement yesterday. >> happy new year to you and jeff as well. there were a lot of questions why she was rolling out this initial phase of her presidential campaign on new year's eve. it looks like a success in this respect, a wide open playing field in terms of media.

we are talking about it early in the show. she wanted to lay down a marker, the first of the big name democrats to do so. every other democrat, especially those in the senate cloak room there on thursday when she returns to washington. the other fascinating thing, standing out there in the cold all day yesterday, i kept looking at my phone waiting for a tweet from donald trump. i think her advisers were expecting the same. what you saw in his interview with fox last night is one of the fascinating dynamics of many in 2020, a president weighing in on this primary fight in realtime, constantly throughout. something you and jeff will spend a lot of time watching in the white house. >> you took the words out of my mouth. i spent all day waiting for the epic tweet from the president and elizabeth warren's announcement. of course he did have fiery

words in his interview, of course it's notable. here he is in the middle of a shutdown battle with democrats and sharpening his attacks with warren in this early stage, even before the ball dropped last night. what do you make of it? >> reporter: he is, kristin. he is known for, you saw it in 2016 and since he has been in the white house, his ability to define his opponent. his opponents, in this case. there will be a very wide and large field of democrats running for the democratic nominee and the opportunity to run against him in 2020. so, i think it was interesting to hear him say he would like to see senator warren be the nominee. he clearly feels comfortable attacking her. we have seen that with his multiple attacks on her discussion about her ethnicity and native american background. that's clearly a fight he would relish. he referenced that yesterday.

what will be interesting and this relates to what mike said, how he continues to do it with tens or more of democratic candidates who will join her in this race. >> one of the things that make this moment so notable is what we are witnessing is this debate within the democratic party. what will the identity be? will they take a more progressive path to the nomination to the white house or will they choose a more establishment candidate? talk about the tension there. obviously, you have covered every single move of former vice president, joe biden, who in a recent iowa poll is the front-runner. >> reporter: that's part of the timing from senator warren yesterday. she wants to be the leader in her wing. she said the american people deserve a debate about how to restore dignity to the working class, the middle class and who

should lead. we saw sherrod brown making noise yesterday. his advisers were pushing out. there's going to be a lot of competition for that. it relates to former vice president joe biden. in 2015, when he thought about running in that race in the 2016 race, he was out there and those times he was sounding political, one of the things he would say is i'm no bernie sanders populous. here is somebody who, i think, if he does run would stand to make a case to the country that is more above ideology and more, sort of a, this is a moment of national urgency and you need a trusted figure, a familiar hand of who can look out for the public's interest beyond a party's interest. >> what does warren's announcement mean for bernie sanders who ran in 2016 and the more establishment branch of the

party. you have other potential candidates as well. >> absolutely. we were talking earlier about how president trump will define his opponents on the democratic side. they will have to define themselves as well and do it by comparing each other. it creates a challenge for sanders. that is the vantage he held against hillary clinton in 2016. there are a lot of very upset progressives around this country who will be looking for somebody to do just that. as mike said, the question will be, as they go through the process of choosing a nominee, whether you want somebody further to the left, whether you want someone who can appeal to the center in a general election against president trump and what exactly you need. where, in that scale or on that scale, do you find a candidate who is going to do the thing progressives and democrats want

more than anything else, a victory over this president. >> everyone wondering whether beto o'rourke is going to throw his hat into the ring. thanks to both of you, appreciate it. big announcement, tomorrow, elizabeth warren sits down with rachel maddow for her first meeting since considering a 2020 white house run. watch "rachel maddow show" tomorrow here on msnbc. coming up, the new threat kim jong-un paired with an invitation for president trump. we'll delve into that when we come back. hat when we come back. at fidelity, our online u.s. equity trades are just $4.95. so no matter what you trade, or where you trade,

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north korean leader, kim jong-un says he's ready to meet president trump to talk about denuclearization. but don't test his patience. kim said the north will be forced to take a different path if the united states continues to break its promises. joining me now is kevin. thanks for being here, i appreciate it. >> good morning. >> what is your take away from what we saw and what we heard

yesterday from the north korean leader and what are the implications for a second meeting between him and president trump? >> well, the word that comes to mind is verification. it is nice to hear the north korean leader say they are stopping the nuclear program, fwu west doesn't know. nobody outside the country knows. i think the relationship remains in a big pause. it's not really up to the united states to unilaterally declare that the north koreans are living up to their promises. there has to be an international team to verify it. nobody knows what president trump is going to do or what his personal standard is for that second meeting. >> kevin, is it fair to say there's been a number of indications that north korea hasn't done anything to stop its nuclear program? >> some things. they have not tested any new

explosions or launched new missiles. a year and a half ago, they are launching over japan, over american allies making hostile statements. the rhetoric is in a good place. watchers are seeing activity moving missiles around and development. there's a lot of development, especially with nuclear fuel that can't be seen through satellite, only verified with independent inspectors. >> move to syria. president trump, before the new year, sparked a huge backlash among allies on capitol hill after announcing withdrawaling troops from syria. he seemed to backtrack or meeting with lindsey graham. listen to an interview last night. >> i never said we are going rush out. we are bringing our young, great troops home after so many years. we were supposed to be in syria

3-4 months. that was four or five years ago. it's time. we have to bring them home. >> is this a walk back, kevin? >> i don't know where he got that from where the u.s. was only going to be in syria 3-4 months. that's ridiculous. he said he wanted them out in 30 days. he called for immediate withdrawal, that was his language. it was so unclear. this is so backward of the normal way to plan a military withdrawal. what i have read and what i am hearing in reporting is that secretary mattis and the pentagon asked for more time to have an organized withdrawal. it takes time to take down fire bases, load up equipment and roll it out of the country, back across the boarer to iraq or wherever it is going and coordinate with allies to take responsibility with those areas. especially turkey, who was going

to do the job. there's doubt if they can do the job or want to and hold a third of the country. 120 days is a number to remember. that's the number mattis asked for that the pentagon wanted. there was reporting, that was probably what they were going to get. after lindsey graham came out of the meeting, that made him more assured. this promise to give the military 120 days to plan redeployment. >> this comes as the defense secretary resigned in protest creating uncertainty about the future of national security. kevin, thank you so much, really appreciate your reporting. >> happy new year. >> happy new year to you. coming up, robert mueller's investigation, the questions he's trying to answer. plus, the new year's greeting from the president of the united states, addressed to

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we turn now to the russia investigation, a story that will undoubtedly continue to dominate headlines this year. a new nbc news report details what's ahead with former prosecutor daniel goldman saying he is believing conspiracy with election meddling is not the most serious crime mueller is investigation.

he believes, at the heart of the inquiry is whether the president made foreign policy decisions for personal financial reasons. joining me now, msnbc legal analyst, miley wiley and staff writer natasha. thank you for being here. great to see you in person. >> happy new year. >> happy new year to you. knowing what we know and if you can read between the tea leaves, where is this investigation heading and how expansive is it? >> i thought we were going to start with natasha since she went to bed early. >> good for you for enjoying the holiday. >> look, this investigation i do not believe is over. i don't think we are at the point where there's a wrap up and a report and tied together in a neat bow. i think if it were, we wouldn't see so many redacted documents in sentencing memos, we would

have seen more information there. there are investigations they are protecting. i think dan is absolutely right. what we have seen in 2018 is a roller coaster of indictments, pl pleas, finding back door things and sharing information with the white house. this is an investigation that i think is going to be rolling but we are going to get a lot more information and we are going to see more indictments in 2019. >> more indictments, that is your rediction. that is strong. i want to start with what rudy giuliani is saying, the president's attorney. he tweeted, i challenge mueller to put up or shut up. you have no evidence of the president involved in a conspiracy with anyone or evidence of collusion. it's been two years. submit a report to doj and we will answer it.

quick fact check here. mueller brought criminal charges against 33 people. what do you make of the strategy? is it smart? >> mueller never backs down from a twitter challenge. giuliani is full blown tv lawyer pr person for the president. he's not acting as the president's personal lawyer here, at least in his best interest as his lawyer. why go on twitter and antagonize mueller as he's been doing if he's trying, in good faith to strike a deal with the team. >> this is an important point. this is a pr strategy. he is the lawyer, but this is about pr. >> completely. everything the president says about the mueller investigation is about pr and convincing the base there's no there there. in 2019, there's so many loose ends that need to be tied up. for juliny to say put up or shut up is disingenuous.

we don't know what trump has in his tax returns. what citizen relationship with deutsche bank is like. what they have been telling special counsel. what cohen told the special counsel, the president's personal lawyer. that was core to the investigation. all of these things have yet to come out. to say he wants mueller to submit a report for the justice department is interesting. it's saying he wants the information to come out. it makes no sense. >> my pick up on the timing of this. based on our nbc news exclusive reporting, he could submit a report by february. do you think that's realistic? >> i think the public record, we know robert mueller has a lot more than we have seen. he has enough to do some reporting. i think the question is, what would he report on and what will he not report on? as i said earlier, i don't believe he's finished.

to dan goldman's point, he is right to say there's a series of conspiracies that appear to be conspiracies under investigation. they are the questionings of the financial dealings and crimes under those conspiracies that could be their own indictments. there's a lot of work to do. the question is, when we have a whittaker sitting as acting attorney general who has made clear, essentially, he's going to stay in that seat and oversee the investigation despite the fact he was told by the office of ethics he should recuse himself, he's going to say to mueller whether or not he can go forward with an indictment, not just a report. whether there's litigation or the indictments are forthcoming. >> one of the critical questions we will watch. hopefully you both got some rest because it's going to be a

couple busy weeks and months. thank you for the great analysis. coming up, president trump claims there's a ten foot wall around his predecessors home. neighbors beg to differ. democrats take over the house in two days. what will that look like? we'll look at that when we come back. stay with us. that when we come back stay with us the day after chemo shouldn't mean going back to the doctor just for a shot. with neulasta onpro patients get their day back...

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on sunday, president trump tweeted about his wish for a border wall inaccurately saying the obama's have a ten-foot wall around their mansion compound in washington. the neighbors are pushing back against president trump saying there's no such wall around the obama residence. let's bring in michael, contributing host of considerate and jim kessler, vice president for policy and co-founder of third way and jim served as policy director for senator chuck schumer. thank you for being here. happy new year. >> happy new year to you. >> this claim that has been debunk ld by former president o

barack obama's neighbors. what do you make of the strategy? is it the type of thing that fires up his base or could it backfire? >> kristin, we are not surprised by this. the president starting off the new year telling lies. "the washington post" says he told over 5,000 of them. i don't think it shocks us. the point the president is attempting to make is people have gates around their homes to secure them. we need a wall, in essence to secure the country. i guess i get the premise of the argument he is attempting to make, but falls on his head. i think lindsey graham made great points saying that we would use the money to increase border security such as hiring border agents and, yes, we would improve the barriers that currently exist. that is a more sellable or

marketable argument than the idea of building a 2,000 mile border wall that is not going to happen. as a conservative, who is going to pay for that? i don't think it's a strategy that is going to work. >> the president said mexico is going to pay for it and now asking taxpayers to foot the bill. he says mexico is going to reimburse taxpayers through the deal he struck. talk about the broader relationship with the truth, "the washington post" fact checker says the president averaged 15 false claims a day last year. he is facing a different political reality now. the democrats are now going to control the house of representatives. does he -- could that be a liability for him in terms of governing, moving forward in 2019? >> yeah, he's going to have challenges with a democratic congress. he's going to continue to tell

falsehoods. that's what he does. a leopard is not going to change his spots. most won't matter, they will cause a kerfuffle. some may. the key thing for him in this new congresscurfuffle. you basically had a republican congress that for two years abdicated its responsibility on oversight. they did nothing, so you're essentially replacing like a series of inspector clue sows, you've got jerry nadler, the head of judiciary, adam schiff who's the head of intel. you've got elijah cummings who's head of the oversight committee. they're going to do very aggressive oversight on the president. they're diligent members. they're thoughtful members. they have a lot of judgment. i think there's going to be some rough sailing for the administration. >> well, and the president is welcoming the new year with a tweet that sort of underscores where his mind is today. it says happy new year to

everyone, including the haters and the fake news media. 2019 will be a fantastic year for those not suffering from the trump derangement syndrome. so really setting the tone in 2019, isn't he? >> i think he's setting a tone in a negative way. i mean, we have truly seen the rise of bad and destructive leadership under this president. he's charismatic, he's narcissistics and promotes an ideology based off of fear. the republican party has given sustenance to this, in part because they have their own priorities and agenda, and they've placed that over the safety and the health and the direction of the country. that is why i do think democrats did so well in november of 2018 because the american people did want to see a check on the president. look, i think republicans can agree with donald trump on certain things, such as deregulation, et cetera, but they can also say we have to check you on things that are just immoral or unethical or just not healthy or in the

benefit of the country at large. >> and i think the question on everyone's mind, will there be any type of policy achievements given that we are looking at divided government. great conversation, sher michael singleton, jim kessler, thanks so much to both of you. >> thanks so much. the president says his accomplishments in office stack up with the best presidents in american history. is that true? we'll talk about that with a presidential historian. that's next. your average consum. that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and as a man... uh... or a woman... with very specific needs that i can't tell you about- say cheese. mr. landry? oh no. hi mr. landry! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

president trump's official white house message for the new year, a shot at his critics, but also an attempt to define his legacy. take a listen. >> it's going to be a great year, complicated but great. people make it overly complicated actually, but i will tell you there has never been an administration -- and i'm very proud of this -- that's done more than the trump administration in the first two years of office. >> and with me to discuss president trump's impact two years later, jeffrey angle, director of the center for presidential history at southern methodist university. thank you so much for being here. really appreciate it, and happy new year to you. >> to you as well. >> thank you. you just heard what president trump said there, that no administration has done more for the first two years in office than he has. a little bit of a fact check. is that accurate? how would you characterize these past two years? >> from a historical perspective

that's ludicrous on the face of it. we have to think about -- >> that's a fabt check. >> well, yeah. we might want to think about how we measure accomplishments. we can look at legislation, or foreign affairs. we can look at woodrow wilson's progressive reforms in the first couple years of his administration and of course the new deal in the first 100 days of franklin roosevelt's administration or lyndon johnson's great society. on the international side george h.w. bush at the end of his two years in office had essentially won the cold war. it's hard to find any tally from president trump that matches to the historical record. >> i have to ask you about something that the president just tweeted. it's a response to general stanley mcchrystal who called president trump an immoral liar. it's worth noting that mcchrystal was fired by obama for disparaging top members.

last assignment a total bust known for big, dumb mouth. hillary lover. let's take this in the broader context here, which is the sort of remarkable break we're seeing between president trump and his quote, unquote generals with defense secretary james mattis resigning in protest frankly over the president's policies in syria. other senior defense officials resigning. talk about this in the context of history. have we ever witnessed a break like this between a president and the military? >> certainly not a public break. one of the problems with president trump is that we're trained as historians never to use the word unprecedented because it usually means you're just not thinking hard enough, but with some of the things that president trump has said just the example of calling a former general a dog is something which basically has never occurred in american history, at least in the 20th century. there's really a general sense in which presidents listen to the generals, even though they're the commander in chief, and at the very least if they disagree they disagree privately. we can see in recent history for

example, george w. bush, you know, who had a lot of difficulty getting his surge policy through in iraq because the generals disagreed. he spent a lot of times behind the scenes trying to massage their message, trying to massage their thoughts to try to get the generals on board with him. he certainly never did anything to disparage them publicly because that just creates a rift between a key constituency, the military and the commander in chief. >> very quickly, the associated press writes president donald trump has rewritten the rules of the presidency and the norms of the nation's capitol. is that overstated? >> i think it's too soon to tell, which is to say that he's certainly doing things differently, but when we talk about whether he's changed the norms and changed the historical norms we're going to have to see how his successors act, be they republican or democrats decide to legislate and rule by tweet, that's certainly going to be a dramatic change unlike anything we've seen. >> indeed. well, we continue to watch very closely with all of these

historic developments. thank you so much. really appreciate it. great conversation. >> good to talk to you. and that wraps up this hour of msnbc live, yasmin takes over from here. it's so good to see you in person. happy new year. >> can we make a new year's resolution that we read less of the president's tweets? >> we can be more scrutinizing about what -- >> about what tweets we actually read. that's a really good resolution. happy new year. good seeing you. right now on msnbc, everybody. 20/20 vision, the first big name democrat jumps into the 2020 race for the white house. what senator elizabeth warren is doing, why she's starting so early and what the president is saying about her. also, general disappointment. president trump announces he will slowly pull troops out of syria while blasting his critics including those he calls the failed generals who are against the withdrawal.