>> punch buggy, that's my favorite game to pray wilay wit brother in the car. >> do you even have a car? >> no. >> we're in new york, we don't have cars. >> i was a terror on the road. >> why am i not surprised? >> it was a service for everybody involve to have me move to a city with mass transportation. >> happy new year. >> did you hear my snort? >> i don't know if they heard it. you thought something was funny. i'm sure it was in my stellar delivery. >> it was -- i'd never heard of one of those cars, it was a funny name. >> it is kind of quirky. >> the chevy cruz though is my go-to car. >> rental car? >> yes. >> yes. okay. >> great car, zippy. i'm better on the road now. >> like you, zippy. >> thank you. >> or you used to be. >> i know, now i'm waddling. i'm a slow person now. anyway. i think people are bored. >> happy new year. >> happy new year, chris. hello, everyone. it's 1:00 p.m. in the east.

we're following breaking news. there's new reaction from the family of an american man who has been detained in russia. the russian government is holding paul we'll heelen on accusations he is a spy. he was arrested on friday. the state department is attempting to get access to him. here is what we know about wheelen. he's a former marine who's traveled to russia before. according to his family, he was in the country for a friend's wedding. his twin brother who spoke with msnbc last hour insisted wheelen is innocent and said the family learned of his detainment from the news. >> we learned about paul's detention from online news wires that had republished the russian myste mysteries detention. we've had some very strong help from the people at the embassy in monascow. although i'm not really clear on

the 72 hour limit but there's a window that has to close before they're able to get consular access to paul. >> nbc news correspondent hans nichols is at the white house. the family seems to be really confused here about why he was detained. the russians are accusing him of being a spy. what's the american government saying? >> we haven't heard much. you can understand why the family's concerned. why they're confused as well. they still need to get access to their family member. they're in touch with the family. they seem satisfied with their response. when you think about the potential for tit-for-tat for this. in the past when russian has expelled diplomats working under the cover of spies, working under the cover of diplomacy, they've come back quickly, they've been dispelled. they've detained him, they've arrested him, and they haven't

arrested him yet, which suggests he could be a political bargaining chip. we're filling in a little bit more about what his twin is like. have a listen. >> he's been to russia at least since 2007 because i seen a picture of him in front of the kremlin back then when he was on r & r -- he was a marine serving in iraq and he decided to take the opportunity to go to russia and be a tourist so he did. he loves to travel. i wasn't surprised he would be confident going to russia. he has a law enforcement background. he's got his marine background. he does corporate security. he's aware of the risks of traveling in certain parts of the world. so it just would never have occurred to me that, a, he would have any sort of trouble in a large metropolitan area or b, that his background would suggest he would commit any crime, let alone an espionage crime. >> add this case to the list of

challenges that president donald trump will have in 2019. remember, president trump didn't meet with putin at that summit. they haven't had a meeting since. they still have that dispute about that shipping lane in ukraine. and i think it's important to note putin in that year end press conference absolutely denied that they would hold any american hostage for leverage for maria butina but in the past from russia we see when they telegraph something by actually denying it beforehand. >> would this be for specifically, for maria butina specifically? >> potentially, right. when we're talking to experts, that is a potential. in the past when there's been actual spies, actual spies have been exchanged quickly. there's almost a routine for

this, like a complicated dance. you saw that last march when the u.s. expelled those 60 under the cover of diplomacy working in the united states according to press reports and they shut down the consulate in seattle. there's a dance. what's scary about this, it's not following the traditional steps. >> anyone in the administration or at the state department talking about issuing a travel warning to american tourists who are considering going to russia? if they're going to take somebody who by all appearances is not a spy, isn't that cause for worry if you're going to visit the kremlin or moscow? >> not that we've heard of. there's such a great deal of tourism going back and forth. a lot of americans go to russia. you think, why go to russia in the middle of winter? it is beautiful this time of year. that could be a concern. we'll see if a travel warning coming out. typically, that would be one way for the state department to increase pressure on the

russians. they are very serious. with the price of oil as low as it is on the tourism front as well. >> nbc's hans nichols, thank you. also in washington, new year, same shutdown. we're now in the 11th day of this stale mate. estimated 800,000 federal workers remain furloughed or forced to work without pay. and it's not just government workers who are affected. small business owners that rely on those workers patronage are starting to feel the impact as well. things are getting messy at our natural parks. human feces, overflowing damage and illegal off-roading in fragile areas was beginning to overwhelm the parks. well, washington might look like a ghost town. president trump reminded americans that he is still there. remember, he's lonely at the white house. still unwilling or at least unage to reach a compromise with lawmakers on the other side of the aisle.

>> a lot of your supporters are hoping you will stand firm on that $5 billion mark or something big for the wall. are you willing to continue the shutdown if that money does not come? >> we have no choice. we have to have border security. we're not giving up. we have to have border security and the wall is the big part of border security. >> a tweet posted just hours ago, trump signaled he would not support democrat's plan to reopen the government when congress returns to the hill on thursday. thursday being the same day democrats will assume control of the house. trump wrote, the democrats have allocated no new money for the wall. without a wall, there can be no real border security and our country must finally have a strong and security southern border. his outgoing chief of staff contradicted him on that just the other day. geoff bennett, garrett haake

"l.a. times" eli stokels. garrett, starting with you. still a ghost town out there. the democrats have a strategy though it seems. they're going to put two bills on to the floor of the house on thursday. what happens then? what are in those bills? >> this is a political strategy by democrats to increase pressure on republicans who still control the senate. one set of these bills will fund the majority part of the government still closed. these are bipartisan bills already negotiated in the last congress. they're not controversial. the last part is a short continuing resolution just for the department of homeland security until february. remember, that was part of what the senate passed by voice vote before the shutdown even started. but none of it for the wall. it should pass easily through the house. the question is what, if anything, happens with it in the senate?

mitch mcconnell and his aides have telegraphed this is not something we want to deal with. they won't touch it until they know the president supports it. but what this does is allows democrats in their new majority in the house to come in and say we're here, we're ready to g govern. what are the republicans willing to do? it puts that pressure on mcconnell and his republican majority in the senate and on the president to figure out exactly what it is they want. remember, this has been a big complaint from democrats. the president's stance on what constitutes a wall, how much money he wants for it, where it would go, has shifted time and time again and democrats feel like, oh, if we can't negotiate with him, we can certainly put forward a position on where we stand and then see if the republicans come to us. that's what will happen essentially on thursday. >> kevin, you were on the 2016 campaign trail following trump like eli and i were as well. we would happy donald trump talk about the wall all the time. his supporters certainly liked

it. they had the response, build the wall, mexico's going to pay for it, et cetera. when i talked to folks and talked about the wall, they weren't steadfast in their need for it because they trusted donald trump, period, to do whatever is best. the fox reporter asked trump or said to trump a lot of his supporters want him to stand firm on the wall. are his supporters saying that or is it just laura ingraham or rush limbaugh? >> it's a great point. i think what you saw in the weeks leading up to the holiday recess was essentially the conservative choir really denouncing president trump to have any type of bipartisan compromise leading into the new year. is pelosi willing to hand trump or centrist democrats any type of mini-political victory? the notion that they're not playing ball with the white house is something that is going

to be a big political challenge. to your point in terms of the president, his campaign promise, there really is no bigger promise than his notion to build a wall. in the past week, we've seen him back off some of his approach. calling it different types of things. at the end of date, both sides are really dug in now. pelosi in addition to having to negotiate with this white house also has to negotiate with the new progressive wing of her party. >> misleading to say this is about fulfilling a campaign promise. the campaign promise was mexico was going to pay for the wall. this is already a promise that has been broken because mexico's not paying for the wall. again, to me, when i talk to people out on the road, they weren't so strong in their desire for donald trump to fill every promise he would make. there's this feeling a lot of what he said was not very feasible. they just liked him as a leader. i'm wondering who in the

administration is telling the president that he doesn't do this, that his support will break. i always got the impression his support was going to be there regardless. >> i think it's a good point. i think you're right. he didn't repeal or replace obamacare either in the first year. the base stuck with him. inside the white house, you have mick mulvaney and pence and kushner in charge of these negotiations. i think they're looking to get upwards of $1.6 billion for border security. the wall being something that is under that umbrella. maybe they can get to 2 but maybe not. the president is going to have to make the case to his supporters. i think really it's the people outside the administration, the fox news interviewers, the ruck limbaughs on the radio, those are the people who get in the president's ear and spook him about cutting some sort of deal with democrats th s thas that d include more wall funding. they're saying you better fulfill your campaign promise. he's listening to those voices.

perhaps at his own political peril. he stirred up immigration fears, hysteria about the caravan leading up to the november election. it didn't work for him. democrats won 40 seats in the house as a result of the opposition and antipathy toward trump and what he was selling last fall. doing it again at the start of a new congress with democrats controlling the house doesn't seem to be a political winner overall. again, throughout this administration, we've seen this president more than anything else looking to make sure that his most ardent supporters, that narrow base, stays with him. >> about his supporters, it seems there's no one else making such a broad -- there's no one making a bigger and broader assessment of their own is supporters than donald trump is. believing his own supporters won't stick with him unless he has this wall and the immigration promises. but supporters would go to the

rallies and thought, listen this guy is completely nontraditional. he's somebody who's not a politician. he's going to throw a bomb into the system and get it working again. there were people who thought he could reach across the other side of the aisle and start making deals. it wasn't uniformly build the wall and expel immigrants. that's not all of trump's support. is there anybody in the white house that's pointing that out to him saying listen, you did have a number of people who wanted you to figure out a way to make the government work and making it work would mean working with democrats. >> you're slabsolutely right. this is really all about the fight. the way a shutdown ends is one side has to cave. the president is not in a caving kind of mood. if you stop paying tax to this shutdown drama on december 22, the day it started, you wouldn't have missed much. the underlying dynamics haven't

changed. that could shift come january 3rd. come thursday when the congress convenes and you got nancy pelosi and house democrats bringing this new bill to the floor. until then, that's frankly why we've seen donald trump sort of go back to square one where he's now saying that you cannot have any sort of border security without the border wall. even though you have the border patrol saying that smugglers have shown talent about, you know, finding ways about static barriers. and that most drugs when they come into the country come in through ports of entry in cars and the president always talks about illegal immigrants, undocumented immigrants bringing crime into the country. again, statistics show that migrants have a lower crime rate than do the native population. >> i presented those facts directly to his face in 2015 and he ignored them then just as he's doing now. the immigration problem, it's because of visa overstays, not though crossing the border.

the numbers are down historically over the past few decades. the coast guard monitoring the waters. which by the way, they're having a hard time with funding over this shutdown. garrett, anyone in congress on the republican side looking to cut a deal? or i guess the better question is at what point will they think that the president's position is no longer tenable for them? >> there's a couple things going on here. first, this is a case where the difference between senate republicans and house republicans is notable. house republicans are now about to find themselves in a vocal minority where their only job is essentially to oppose what the majority of democrats are doing and to back up the president. some of them are embracing that wholeheartedly. you've got the mark meadows and jim jordans of the world telling the president to dig in. on the senate side, you've got fairly vulnerable republican senators who have to run for re-election in 2020.

corey gardner in colorado. gardner, for example, someone we know is working behind the scenes, talking to the president, trying to get some kind of resolution to this. the president is playing with house money to a degree here. he has no other agenda left. there will not be another tax cut with the democratic left. maybe this trade deal. other than that, the wall is the last big campaign promise that he can fight for legislatively. i think that's part of the reason why you're seeing him so dug in. >> again, he said mexico was going to pay for it, not the american taxpayer. mexico was going to pay for it. it's no longer a campaign promise he is fulfilling even if he does get a wall built and that's an important point to hammer home i think every day. kevin, good to see you, happy

new year, everybody. if you think there's gridlock in washington, wait until the new congress. will republicans play ball? more on this coming up. i am a family man.

i am a techie dad. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience.

my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. in less than 48 hours, democrats will take over the house, ushering a new era of divided government. there's not a whole lot they will be able to accomplish on their own. after all, the republicans still control a senate. but a number of insurgent

freshman in the democratic house are going to try anyway. as one congressman told "the washington post," they're not asking permission to do things. joining me, the editor of commentary magazine. he is also an msnbc contributor. former deputy assistant secretary of state. he also served as media director for hillary clinton. phillipe, buddy, what does it mean when somebody says they're not going to be asking permission to do things? >> first off, happy new year, katie, happy new year. >> happy new year. >> watching your last segment, i think you nailed it. we had a terrible combination of single rule and divided rule in the sense that the republican party had control of the white house and congress but boy has republican party and donald trump been at odds at several points along the way. you hit the nail on the head about what supporters expect.

i think they just expect him to exist and they got most of what they wanted the day he was elected. the reason i'm saying that is because, you know, as a fellow new yorker and jeopardy champion john knows full well donald trump is not -- we've had presidents like ronald reagan who switched parties. donald trump has changed parties seven times. and not just back and forth between the major party it is and independent reform. and he does not have an ideology. and the notion that nancy pelosi is going to be a thorn in his side might not be the case. the real case might be mitch mcconnell and the sense that, you know, pelosi might try to do what she did or months ago with daca and donald trump sat there nodding his head saying that sounds great then republicans in the room say hold on a second, we can't do that. >> listen, i was talking about this with the gentleman i had on the a block. a lot of them followed donald trump as well. we've all gotten in our heads

they only want him to build the wall and fulfill campaign promises. but that's not what i encountered when i was on the road. it was a lot of folks out there who wanted government to work. and not someone like donald trump who sold himself as a deal maker and as a businessman would be able to do that. so why is he so unwilling to be a master of the compromise? >> so he's clearly as a politician entirely instinctual. something is telling him to dig in on the wall. i don't think mitch mcconnell -- i think the happiest day of mitch mcconnell's life would be when donald trump says mitch, you come in, nancy come in, and we'll come up with stuff tooth. he's not a particular ideological person himself. i think his idea is it would be best for everybody in washington

if a good working order could be established. >> why doesn't he buck the president then and just do it? >> because the president can veto -- >> but leave the responsibility on the president's doorstep instead of continuing to keep the government partially shutdown and forcing people without paychecks? >> we'll see what happens in the next couple of days. you do have the odd situation. phillipe is right. donald trump is a person with no fixed ideology. that means if you're mitch mcconnell you have no idea what the hell he's going to do to you at any given moment. they had a deal on the government shutdown. >> they did. >> that he exploded. the same way he exploded the deal on daca, the deal with paul ryan on obamacare. at the very beginning of the administration. he is the -- >> donald trump is the problem? >> yes, and that has not -- divided government has always been one part of the party or the other in the congress that

serves, wants to be a check on the president. the president wants to be a check on his own party to some extent. >> an important point, that mcconnell also has 22 republicans up in two years. the one thing we learned in 2018 was that these house seats just abandoned -- they renter judgment on donald trump and the republican party but trump really does have an iron grip might be a bit of an exaggeration but he really can tip the scales with the senate seats that are just more conducive demographically. mcconnell, you know, if trump starts going after these 22, mcconnell's in a weird position but it's correct, he's a tactician who is malleable. question is whether trump is allowed, given the space. you're 100% right, katie, there's a disconnect between laura ingraham and.

>> i haven't heard donald trump voters saying i need this wall. >> yes. >> but donald trump supporters are not a monolith. that's a mistake that everybody makes. no more so than donald trump himself who believes his voters need him to fulfill these promises. it's not a promise if mexico's not paying for it. he's not getting anything done. so my confusion here is does donald trump understand that or is his only -- only thing he does understand is fighting. >> no, i think that hearing that laura ingraham and rush limbaugh were saying he was a wimp terrified him. he, like lyndon johnson in 1968, who decided not to run for president because walter mondale, walter mondale, excuse me, walter cronkite said america had lost the tet offensive which

america had not. he said i lost cronkite so i can't be president again. johnson was wrong. and trump is wrong. >> rush limbaugh was none at campaign trail talking to people at donald trump rallies. his campaign aides should know this as well because a lot of them were there also. yes, there was the response. build the wall and mexico will pay for it. a lot of them were there for the show and entertainment value, rather than the point by point that donald trump was making for his policy. they understood that he was a showman. they didn't think he was going to go to washington and continue to be a showman in that vein. they were hoping he would be somebody who would get things done. >> i agree and disagree in the sense that -- >> not all of them. there were some that really wanted -- >> i'm not defending trump vomiters en masse. i do think on the whole his sheer election is what fulfilled

the promise for them. i think you see it in the sense that there's nothing he can do that makes a difference. he could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and build a slatted fence and they'd be fine with it. the real issue is he's somehow conflating what fox is telling him. and i think that's because his numbers moved for other reasons. he could fire mattis and people might react to the chaos which seems to be his soft underside. and he might say, oh, my god, i'm doing it because of the wall. he wants their approval. and he's scared when he doesn't get it. but frankly fox needs him more than he needs fox. >> i just think it's amazing to think about the fact we're gippigipp i beginning a new year, the unemployment rate is at 3.7%. does america know this? they're working and they're not out of work. but ordinarily a president of the united states who has really

good news -- >> that's my point. it seems like all he wants to do, all he understands how to do is fight. fight, fight, fight. when that's no fight, pick a fight. i'm going to do everything i can to keep myself in every single one of the headlines and the only way i know how to do that is by blowing things up over and over again. >> that's what that 40% wants. >> it's not what that 10% he needs between 40 and 50 wants. they really don't want it. >> they put him over the edge. not excited or enthusiastic about donald trump building the wall and being mean frankly and saying absurd things on twitter and calling people names. they were the ones who thought, hey, listen, i just want to get something done. i want washington to work again. i feel like i've got to try something completely different. those were the ones in the -- >> they also meant they wanted washington to work differently and he wanted to blow it up. >> even if they wanted to blow it up, it's now two years.

>> the point is washington isn't working any better than it was working before donald trump came into office. guys, let's leave donald trump aside for a second. let's talk about some new names. it's officially 2019. which means we'll start talking about 2020 presidential possibilities. the pool of possibilities could become official candidates soon. "the washington post" already has some early advice for all of us who are paying attention and wondering. stop counting who's running and start counting who is not because this will be a more crowded and less predictable nomination season than anything we've seen before. i want to bring in our national political reporter. mike, yesterday, you were up in massachusetts. you were with senator elizabeth warren. the highest profile name so far an exploratory committee.

what does this mean for the democratic field? >> first, just a little bit of new news. yesterday, you said i was up in massachusetts and we talked a little bit about how quickly we would see elizabeth warren moving to those states. she is indeed going to be in iowa this weekend. she has events planned in four cities. what you see here is this effort by elizabeth warren to really get ahead of the rest of the field. she wants to claim the mantle of the leader of the progressive wing. as you point to in that "washington post" piece, there are going to be many other democrats claiming that same mantle. it was trying to get ahead of bernie sanders who of course ran and was the progressive candidate in the race you might be able to say in 2016. and also the likes of somebody new. sherrod brown for instance in ohio who himself was just re-elected in 2018 in ohio running on a progressive mantle. as warren was announcing yesterday, his aides were

putting out information, drawing attention to his credentials. warren trying to get ahead of it but there will be many more to come. we expect perhaps camilla harris to announce her plans within the next two week. >> so the new thing is getting out online and introducing yourself to voters. we saw this where she cracks open a beer. watch this. >> i'm going to get me a beer. hey. my husband bruce is now in here. you want a beer? >> i'll pass on the beer for now. >> you sure? >> this effort to show these politicians as regular people. you couldn't argue about the success. but she's not the only one doing this.

acasio cortez did it as well when she was -- she's not running for president officially or anything. she's not chopping vegetables, making dinner for herself. in a viral video. beto o'rourke had those videos. it's a new way they're trying to connect with voters. >> that's what goes on in my house so i can really relate to it. i think, you know, elizabeth warren is smart in getting out, first out of the gate because she really, you know, bernie sanders has a elizabeth warren problem because they're fighting for the same terrain and i think that's going to elizabeth warren. i think it's also a little bit touched on, is she can start raising money quickly and as much as to 19 is going to be defined by online and digital and new, the only thing going on for the next 90 days is raising money. they don't start debating each other until summer. there's no other barometer and come march 31st we'll see how

much they raised. these couple of weeks make a big difference. >> how much of it is about shaping public opinion? >> i think warren had this rollout of her -- and there was a poll that had her way back, like shockingly low. 8% i think democrats said they would support her in 2020. i think this is partially a way of if she's going to run, she doesn't need to have two or three more polls with her with those terrible numbers. this is going to boost her i think without question. i'm more interested in the fact that as fill lean knows because he worked for hillary, bernie sanders raised $250 million in six months. without any high dollar donors or super pac. the interesting question is whether anyone will be able to wrap up those numbers if there's 15 people in the field. >> that's a good point. you're an expert on all this

stuff. you follow it closely. what's your take? >> look at 2018 and o'rourke was raising all this online. absolutely, we heard this from senator warren herself yesterday in terms of that race for cash, she sort of laid down a marker herself when she spoke to us outside her house. we can't be the party of big money, big pacs. that is very important we demonstrate that kind of grassroots support. as we say, that is going to be the big benchmark for the candidates going forward. showing they had a broad and deep support. it is a valid point. i may regret saying this on camera. i don't regret necessarily saying this is going to be quite as big as a field as some people are saying. maybe about the number that we saw in the republican primary last time. >> was that 15? >> 15 or 16. some people allowing their names to be floated want something

else. maybe vice president. maybe they just like hearing their name in the press. making that decision to actually pull the trigger will be one i think some of these don't do. >> you have the downside -- >> we're not going to generally hear about -- >> all four of us could run for president. >> i'm going to pull myself out of this mix. >> the structure, particularly after changes made after 2016 to the structure of the democratic primary contest. republican primary that trump came in was most of the states were winner take all. if you won by 1%, you got all the delegates. democratic party is mostly proportional. and the super delegates, the party officials, do not get to vote on the first ballot. if the field does not winnow significantly, the prospects of a brokered convention that we will go into a convention -- >> oh, we are too early to talk about that, come on, brokered

convention. it is january 1st, 2019. i cannot talk to you about abro it's too early. >> democrats changed the rules and exactly the right moment -- >> oh, my gosh. hold on. okay. i can't with you and that. >> there is one other thing. i think there's going to be an overcomparison to 2016. especially in terms of buernie sanders impact on the race. whether it's 10, 15, 20, and even if it shakes out pretty fast. the dynamics of a multicandidate race is very, very different. in 2016, if bernie sanders said something negative about hillary clinton or vice versa, the odds are you would see a movement back and forth. if bernie sanders said something negative about beto o'rourke, you don't know where that's going to go. it's just going to be a very whack a molish situation.

>> everybody's going to be fighting for oxygen. we hear that all the time. this person is hogging all the oxygen. he said such outrageous things every day that other candidates felt like they couldn't get a word in edgewise. is there going to be a democrat who dominates the news coverage and does so at the expense of the other democrats in the field? that's something to look out for. there's a lot of factors at play. i can't get into all of them right now. >> insert hillary clinton comment here. >> i'm not ready. >> don't forget, donald trump will be a factor in the democratic primary. we've never had a situation like this before where you had an incumbent president who's going to be weighing in on an hourly, daily basis on the race to challenge him. he can help shape the democratic field by choosing which targets he sets as the field develops. whether he does that to try to get a nominee who he thinks is

more beatable or not. we'll wait to see. >> that touches on something that john said in terms of elizabeth warren's numbers. head to head numbers against donald trump. elizabeth warren and hillary clinton were about the same number. but she was well below the rest. i think that's because elizabeth warren, more than the rest, has taken fire from the focused right wing, you know, fox, and you're going to see the others as they get it go down. while the native american dna thing was panned, i actually -- look, it was a debacle. but i think it was important she got it behind her. donald trump, you showed the taped interview last night. he didn't call her pochanetes. >> okay, guys. it's been 20 minutes. >> brokered convention. >> tied electoral college too. >> oh, come on.

gentlemen. let's talk again in a year and a half. good-bye. after the break, the acting secretary of defense, a man without military experience, now tasked with leading the largest military in the world.

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the largest and most

expensive military in the world is about to be run by someone who has less experience than donald trump when he took office. it looks like shanahan who spent three decades with boeing but has no military or policy experience could be in the job for a while. politico reports a few -- that few outside the administration want the job of replacing jim mattis. remember, one of the big reasons that mattis resigned was over the president's decision to quickly pull troops from syria but as of today, it does look like that withdraw won't ebe so quick after all. trump is backing down from his 30 day demand and accepting a roughly four month drawndown of the 2000 troops there. joining me, the former commandant of the u.s. army war college. and medal of honor recipient colonel jack jacobs who's also an msnbc military analyst.

gentlemen, welcome. this guy, replacing james mattis, major general, he's got no government experience. no policy experience. and he is not a veteran. what is your take on? >> well, first of all, happy new year, katie, hi, jack, good to see you. look, the traditional role of a deputy secretary of defense going back, oh, 20 years, has been mr. inside. and the secretary's been mr. outside. and most, in fact, some of the most successful senior administrators in the dod have been budgeteers. one comes to mind as bob work who left the job about two years ago. so in terms of the function that fits the deputy's job, shanahan, by all accounts, has done well. the question is, can he transition over into the strategy and policy arena. and my sense, at least in the short term, is that a lot of that's going to be absorbed by

mike pompeo, perhaps john bolton will assume a lot of the mantle of sort of the liaison to the allies, keeping peace among the services and all the other things, the traditional roles. we'll wait and see whether shanahan will fit the bill. >> one of the things that mattis said when he was resigning was that the president deserves somebody he's more aligned with. so is shanahan more aligned with the president? should we expect to see him i guess rubber stamp more of the president's pullout ideas with draw ideas, pulling out of nato or his deciding to do no war exercises in the south korean peninsula? or is mr. shanahan going to be somebody who is going to push back colonel jacobs, do we know right now? >> he's not the kind of guy who's going to push back. he's a business man.

that's why he was hered to be deputy secretary of defense in the first place. and i think there's an argument that says that because president trump is not likely to find somebody who's competent and confident to be the secretary of defense and can be confirmed by the senate. there's an argument that says that trump will do without a secretary of defense. will rely on others closest to him. and just leave shanahan in there as the deputy. >> and there's also a lot of talk about who would want to take not just the acting role but who would want to take over officially and be senate confirmed for general james mattis and david petraeus was on television the other day saying no, he wouldn't want to serve in this administration. even if he were offered. he thinks the president doesn't tem the truth and he doesn't think he's a moral man.

he's the one saying it out loud, major general. but there are others who it's reported will say that pretty privately. >> yes. well, general jack keen, my good friend, old friend, we used to be vice chief of staff of the army, also turned it down. just a couple of weeks ago. petraeus said no i think pretty forcefully. after you get beyond those two guys if you look for people with policy experience, perhaps combat experience, pham mifamil with the military, the list gets pretty thin. i haven't heard legitimate names thrown out as potential secretaries of defense, you know, at all. a few politicians. a few others. but for the most part, nobody with the gravitas of a guy like jim mattis. >> no. who could blame you when you have the president tweeting that, you know, you get fired like a dog when you say something he doesn't like. go ahead, colonel. >> yes, one thing to keep in mind is if we take a look at all

the people who have been -- all the former general officers of various services who have been working for donald trump for the last two years, they have not had a very long-running track record. they've either jumped or were pushed. they were fired or they left. i think that trump is probably not particularly interested in getting somebody who's a general officer into the job, and he's going to make do with the people he's got now. >> we'll see. gentlemen, happy new year to you. i hope the day ends well. >> happy new year, katy. the new year means new laws. we're talking booze bucks and barks next. g booze bucks and barks next as someone in witness protection, i can't tell you anything about myself. but believe me... i'm not your average consumer. that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and as a man... uh... or a woman...

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it is a new year, which means there's a whole host of new laws out there. so how do you keep yourself out of jail, or at least out of a court? nbc's pete williams will tell you. >> reporter: vermont will begin paying people to move there, up to $10,000 over two years, for people employed by out of state companies who are willing to work from vermont remotely. >> we have a demographic problem in this state. we need more people. >> reporter: connecticut and hawaii make it illegal for employers to ask job applicants about their pay history. that brings to ten the number of

states with similar bans intended to stop the cycle of pay discrimination against women and minorities. >> i think there's an element of this about us competing, and we don't want to be known as the state where women can be lowballed. >> reporter: in new york city, it's illegal to sell anything in foam containers made from polystyrene, something that cannot be recycled. >> plastic works just as good, and the paper cups. same difference. less landfill. >> reporter: foam packing peanuts are also banned in the city. washington state cracks down on people who misrepresent companion or emotional support pets as trained service animals. >> i've had my dog attacked twice in walmart and once in lowe's by nonservice dogs who were aggressive and bit my dog in the muzzle. >> reporter: in california, as of january 1st, pets are now legally considered part of the family in divorces, not just property. judges can assign sole or joint

custody based on the best interest of the pet. internet shoppers in six more state, georgia, iowa, louisiana, nebraska, utah, and west virginia, will have to pay sales taxes on what they buy from out of state retailers. and in colorado, revelers wanting to toast 2019 can do it with all kinds of beer available in grocery stores starting january 1st. not just low alcohol brews, a vestige of prohibition out with the old year. pete williams, nbc news, washington. >> this reminded me of a fun thing that happened three years ago when i was working at this company. it's new year's, so i'm going to tell you because it's a holiday and no one is around. my husband did a cute story on styrofoam being outlawed in new york. i found it online. you should look it up too, just to embarrass him. ine. you should look it up too, just to embarrass him y stressful. this music is supposed to relax me, though. ♪ maybe you'd mellow out a bit if you got geico to help you with your renters insurance. oh, geico helps with renters insurance? good to know.

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and, lily.... lily gets anything she wants. ed knows he could just have us deliver his prescriptions. but what's the fun in that? switch to cvs pharmacy. it is 2:00 p.m. here in the east, 11:00 a.m. out west. president trump began 2019 by tweeting new year's greetings in all caps, naturally. he said it would be a, quote, fantastic year for anyone sufno suffering from trump derangement syndrome and urged people to, quote, just calm down and enjoy the ride. while the calendar may have changed, the problems are still the same. the president is locked in a stalemate with house democrats over funding for his promised border wall. however, there may be some movement. political reports that the president has invited congressional leaders to a white house briefing tomorrow afternoon, even though he continues to dig in on his