my thanks to bill crystal, jonathan mere, betsy phillips and that's going to do it for this afternoon. katy tur is in for the great chuck todd. >> the great chuck todd. if it's wednesday, no wall and no deal. good evening, i'm katy tur in for chuck todd. t they just emerged from a meeting with the president and declared there is no deal on the government shutdown. >> in our last meeting the president said, i'm going to shut the government down. they are now feeling the heat. it is not helping the president,

it is not helping the republicans to be the owners of this shutdown. today we gave them an opportunity to get out of that and open up the government as we debate border security. and to say to them, because he says he won't sign it and use the government as hostage, we should just give in, the american people don't want that. >> we're asking the president to open up government. we are giving him a republican path to do that. why would he not do it? >> it's a development that should shock nobody. this meeting was apparently a bit of a mess, and that's acc d according to the republicans who just left the white house. remember, this was supposed to be a briefing from dhs on border security, but things got so heated that the briefing was cut short. get ready for more theater because the president wants them to come back on friday. folks, this all comes at a time when the white house rejected the latest offer from democrats because it does not fund the wall, a wall that the president

himself claimed earlier today was mostly built and paid for, a wall that his chief of staff just admitted isn't really a wall, and a wall that one of his top advisers in the senate just said was a, quote, metaphor. all of this, mind you, over a wall that mr. trump said mexico was supposed to pay for. still this afternoon, the president told reporters during a bizarre cabinet meeting that he is not budging. >> how long are you willing to keep the government shut down? >> as long as it takes. look, i'm prepared. i think the people of the country think i'm right. i think the people of this country think i'm right. again, i could have done nothing. i could have had a lot easier presidency by doing nothing. but i'm here, i want to do it right. >> at any moment we are expecting senate majority leader mitch mcconnell to speak on the senate floor where he is expected to declare that the senate will not take up the

house bill to reopen the government. this fight is seemingly about much more than a shutdown, it is about a presidency in total cries trying to keep right wing media on his side. it's about house democrats trying to damage the president as it eyes a possible impeachment fight later in the year. it's all about the ingredients of a flailing presidency and gridlock government pushing our political system to its breaking point. oh, and happy new year. we've got the story covered from every angle. msnbc's garrett hague has the latest from capitol hill. james johnson was the homeland security secretary under president obama. we're lucky to have him today. the panel is also with us here. "washington post" political reporter phil bunk. nbc political analyst and republican strategist, susan del percio. and msnbc contributor sheryl

goldberg. what are we hearing happened inside that meeting today? >> reporter: we're hearing it was a heated meeting. the briefing is not what happened as described, and it evolved into more of a shouting match between the major parties here about what exactly would become of this border wall money that the president wants with both sides going back to their corners, essentially. democrats urging the white house and republicans to take no for an answer and go with some bills they had already approved in some form or function, and the president going to his corner and saying, if the democrats won't budge, why should he? he wants 5 billion plus for the border wall. i think basically we put ourselves back in square one here. we'll be back on friday for another meeting. we're going to find out if republicans have come to believe a talking point they've believed for a a long time.

on friday they will find out if there is any truth to theory they have been prop gaagatesingd based on capitol hill, nancy pelosi is not sweating the speakership vote. republicans will find on friday when the house has passed this series of measures and nancy pelosi is the speaker, the situation won't be dramatically changed from what it was a few minutes ago. >> hasn't she already moved into the speaker's suite. >> the plaque is not yet up but the furniture was moving this afternoon. >> interesting. jay, i say we're lucky to have you because you're going to give us a bit of a fact check and a grounding on some of the rhetoric we've been hearing. this information on dhs has been saying there is a crisis at the southern border and they're making it seem if the democrats don't fund this wall, then they are going to perpetuate the crisis we are seeing at this other border that they claim is there. >> let's fact check. the reality is, as i know it's

been said a number of times on this network, that illegal migration now is a fraction of what it used to be, say, 18 years ago. 18 years ago there was 1.8 million apprehensions on the southern border. in the trump administration and recent administrations, there have been 70 million apprehensions because we built a wall pursuant to congress in 2006 where there are several thousand miles of wall in places where it makes sense, plus surveillance, roads, additional personnel, so we've invested in smart ways in border security that has helped bring down illegal migration on our southern border. now, you talk to any border security expert, at least all of those i talked to when i was in office, about what more we need, they will say more surveillance, more vehicles, more aircraft, more votes, more roads, more

lighting, and perhaps some additional wall or fence in the places where it makes sense to do so. the problem with just simply building a wall and spending hundreds of millions of dollars and billions of taxpayer money to do that is you shouldn't build a wall in places where it makes no sense to build a wall, like in a remote desert or building a 10-foot wall on top of a 10,000-foot mountain. that is not a wise investment in taxpayer money. so my advice to those negotiating this is don't become too entrenched in a view, wall or no wall. and i see president trump's own administration trying to walk away from the concept of simply a cement or steel wall. my successor in her testimony a couple weeks ago tried to say we need the wall, as if she was trying to walk away from a wall to a concept, or as lindsey

graham put it, a metaphor, which includes a lot of different things and it's where we need to be. >> so do you think there is a compromise between where the democrats stand now which means to money for a border wall, and the president saying without that we can't have any deal whatsoever. >> i would urge democrats and republicans and this white house -- and this could come down simply to a matter of semantics -- to reach a compromise, to reopen the government, to reopen the department of homeland security, put these 800,000 people back to work so they get paid, and reach a compromise that includes additional surveillance, additional fence as the republican senate bill provides, additional lighting, perhaps some additional personnel, more immigration judges, by the way, and let's not get too hung up on the concept of an actual wall. there might be places along the southern border where the wall that exists could be fortified. i wouldn't rule that out. but i think there are ways to reach common ground on this

where both sides get to claim some form of victory. but at all cost, we need to reopen the government. the most basic function of civilian political leadership is to keep the government open and pay the workers, which is not happening right now. >> we're at day 12. >> if you've had the experience of people facing a shutdown or the prospect of a shutdown, what's happening is real consequences for people who live paycheck to paycheck. there are members of the united states coast guard who are responsible for protecting our ho homeland who are at sea for weeks or months, and they can't tell their families when they'll get paid next. before they set sail, someone in the crew has to dispense cash from a coast guard neutral assistance fund so crew members with give their families cash to get them over the next pay period. >> your son is one of them. >> well, i don't like to talk

about individual members of my family, but i will tell you that there are members of the coast guard at sea for weeks, if not months, and they can't tell their families when they're going to get paid next. like most americans, they live paycheck to paycheck. and that's an abysmal failure of our government leadership. >> the thing about the coast guard is the coast guard is doing the job that border security is doing as well, which is stopping bad things from coming over our borders through our seaports, et cetera. phil, this politics is weighing so heavily on this, it feels like we have a situation where politically neither side wants to give any ground because they feel like they're going to be punished by their voters. >> yeah, exactly. there is no way to look at this beyond president trump having gotten feedback from thiz bahis that he needed to pick this fight. he himself said this and that's

what he was going to do. in the clip you showed earlier, when he says the people stand behind him, that is not the case. there are people who stand behind him but the wall is not necessarily their priority. >> i disagree with that, but go on. i spent 510 days talking to trump voters, and yes, they wilded cheered on a wall. you know, they love this idea of the wall, and they would do the call and response, but many of them didn't necessarily believe that was going to happen, and that was not a dealbreaker for them to vote for donald trump. what they wanted most of all was for donald trump to become president, and they believe any decisions he was able to make while sitting in the white house would be the best decision possible. i wonder if it's bhor what he's hearing from right wing media than what he's hearing about, quote, unquote, base. i don't think he'll lose support from those people who really like him and really want him to

be president and still do just because a wall was not finished. the promise of the wall was that mexico was going to pay for it. >> and that's not going to happen. i just want to go back to your point what right wing commentators say. it might line up a little bit with what the secretary came back with, which was coast guard family members not getting paid. what do you want to do if you want to go after donald trump or show people in the world what happens in the event of a shutdown? you start to interview those family members. pretty soon we'll hear stories not about overflowing trash cans. another secretary told me about people not wanting to make their pay for a cancer treatment. this story will come out on the air and that's a story that can do more than any political commentator. those are the things that can

change the president, and right now he's not in a position to overplay his hand, and nancy pelosi can. >> i wonder, though, if the president will be hearing those sorts of stories, if he will be open to hearing those sorts of stories. >> i'm pretty sure he watches cable tv. >> if he hears those stories, he will make it to the places he watches and they'll be saying, i wonder about that. michelle goldberg, this idea of a wall, the president didn't bring it up and didn't start pushing it until the very last minute. republicans had signed on to a cr, a continued resolution that would fund the government and they had to pull it all back when at the last minute donald trump got upset with what rush limbaugh was saying on the radio. >> you spoke before about how both sides are somewhat politically intractable. i don't think that's politically the case. there are a lot of areas where democrats are willing to give. they're certainly willing to pass the cr that was passed

unanimously in the republican-controlled senate. they're willing to control some sort of the wall for a daca deal that lindsey graham has been pushing. there is a plan that mike pence had been floating with, i think, 2-something-billion dollars for border security, but then trump sort of took that off the table. so democrats don't really have a negotiating partner. they have a president throwing a tantrum because he wants the approval of rush limbaugh and ann coulter and other pundits on the far right and doesn't really feel any urgency about getting the government working, because as he said, even though i don't think it's necessarily true, he thinks the people that aren't being paid are democrats, so i think he doesn't feel this sense of crisis over what's happening. i think what he cares about this

wall metaphorically, but he's desperate for this for his own ego and his own racism. that makes it really difficult because it's not really policy issues, this is just about a narcissistic man having a fit. >> what do you think that pence was the one who offered the smaller dollar number for the wall and the president said, no, that was never on the table. how do you negotiate? >> the leaders on both sides are saying at this point in time the only person who can make a decision about what he's going to do is donald trump. even if you go to the white house communications forum, they're even skittish on weighing in on what he thinks because he changes his mind constantly. the only person who can say what donald trump is going to do in a

given moment is donald trump in that moment. >> that's true, and we saw that kind of get better in terms of messaging and donald trump's decision making with john kelly when he was appointed chief of staff. it's gotten worse during kelly's tenure and now kelly isn't there any longer and it's nick mulvaney, so i wonder if we're going to go back to that time where nobody wants to say anything because they thought they would be the subject of the president's next tweet. jeh johnson, you had a hectic two weeks on capitol hill. don't go anywhere. we have much more to dissect on the breaking news of the government shutdown. i am a family man.

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we're talking about border security. >> nothing for the wall, but that means -- >> how many times can we say nothing for the wall. >> that was speaker designate nancy pelosi and shutdown talks again broke down today after a contentious meeting at the white house which just ended in the last hour. jeh johnson, the former homeland security secretary, he's back along with the panel, phillip, susan and michelle. jeh, the democrats are trying to give republicans and the president a number of other bills that would fund the rest of the government except for homeland security. >> right. so i've kind of seen that movie before. four years ago dhs was in the very same position where it was

out there by itself and the rest of the funded. we had a cr that got us through four years ago. i think whatever is the most con do you s ducive situation for brokering a deal and getting the workers paid tomorrow is the best deal. the inspiration for me was, as susan mentioned, a woman who was an administrative assistant for the federal air martials who had stage 4 cancer, and she didn't know how she was going to make her co-pays because we had to furlough her. as we said earlier, the most basic obligation of the president who is the ceo of the business and the congress should be to keep the government open on behalf of the people and pay the workers. >> is it worth it, then, to shut even partially down over $5 billion for a wall? >> $5 million -- >> billion.

>> -- $5 billion is a fraction of the government and less than 1% of the entire budget. we talk about who is getting furloughed and who has to work and who is getting paid. we're talking about border patrol agents who are, as we speak, on the border trying to deal with the spike that has occurred over the last couple months. we're talking about tsa workers who protect us on aircraft, and we're talking about coast guard. we're talking about people who protect the american people who wear uniforms who are not getting paid right now. and i think all americans should be very, very upset about that and say to those in washington who are failing at the most basic responsibility you have in government right now. >> the president again said mexico was going to pay for this wall. his surrogates and he himself have felt the need to answer for that. today the president tweeted mexico is paying for the wall through the new usmca trade deal. much of the wall has already been fully renovated or built. we have done a lot of work, which is undercutting his

argument, i guess, for needing money for the wall. but the usmca trade deal hasn't gone through yet and hasn't yell paid. leader mccarthy was asked about this just a few minutes ago. listen to what he said. >> what specific provisions of the usmca are going to give the money, and if that money is coming, why are you having this discussion about the american taxpayers? >> we're having this discussion because of the crisis on the border. do you know in this caravan, one-third of all the women are -- some are being raped, some are being violently treated? we have children with challenges coming through, we have another caravan starting to come. we have a real challenge here. that's why both sides can sit down, find a compromise that actually secures the border. >> he didn't really answer that question. >> he didn't answer the question at all. you can see steve scalise with the little smile on his face. he was very happy he didn't have

to answer it. to the point that's been made multiple times before, this trade agreement isn't in effect. even if it were in effect, if it had been ratified by congress, there is nothing in the document to actually provide funding for the wall. theoretically i spoke with one of our smart businesspeople and asked, what would be in here? she said it might pay so much taxes, but it makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense because donald trump himself in that tweet said most of this has been done already. >> it seems like he's reaching for any straw that he can. michelle, there is a new congress coming in. they're going to be in power officially tomorrow. the democrats in control of the house. a lot of people went out to vote in 2018, a lot more than 2014. did they vote for democrats to come to a compromise with the president on his most contentious campaign issue?

>> well, i mean, there is very little support for this wall in the country and not just among people who voted for democrats, right? as you said, i think it's 35% of people in this country want this wall built. fewer than that support this government shutdown. i think people who voted for democrats understand they're going into a divided government, that they're going to have to compromise with this president, as erratic and unreasonable as he is. but what they didn't vote for is kind of unilateral surrender to hostage taking, which is what we're involved in right now. >> what is already happening to a degree, 2020 is around the corner and presidential politics will be at play. how is this going to affect it? >> the wall is rhetoric, the wall plays to both sides, frankly. you have some of the trumpees, not all of them, but some want to see that wall.

and the democrats like having that wall to fight against. politically it will suit whoever is there, but i think the u.s. has to look politically, when you talk about 2020, at mitch mcconnell and the senate. the senate map is a lot different in 2020. there will be a lot of republicans, some who are quite vulnerable, up for reelection. this is horrible for them. yes, it may help them at avoiding a primary, but i think mitch mcconnell is in a very difficult situation and that he should be prepared for the president to turn on him. the president doesn't understand how government works. he's been fortunate to have, in the same party the control of the house and the senate. now he's lost the house. the senate is going to have to leave. if mitch mcconnell doesn't deliver for him, whatever that may be, mitch mcconnell better be prepared for president trump to turn on him, because he's just as likely to do that as to come up with a deal. who knows. >> will republicans, i wonder, feel more pressure in the coming days and weeks than the president does because of the

fact the shutdown has been happening during the holiday season and it hasn't been as apparent to most people as it will be? >> well, they will, because this isn't nancy me lohpelosi's firs rodeo. she's going to keep passing this legislation. she's going to keep passing the bill. she's going to keep bringing tup, it will come to a vote and the senate will keep saying no. >> daca. is it back on the table at some point? >> to the point we were making earlier, it's hard to say what might be on the table. it certainly has been the case that democrats have shown some willingness in the past to make a deal on this. i think nancy pelosi's strategy is very smart, taking this bill the senate has passed on mitch mcconnell's leadership a month ago and reintroducing that. the only thing that's changed in the senate is there are six seats flipped, two of them for republicans. it will be hard to knock him over that. he could make some sort of deal,

but to the point we also keep making, that's not reasonable. >> we should come back to what jeh has been saying over and over again. this is not just politics. there are 800,000 federal workers who might have been furloughed or are working without pay at this time because of a government shutdown. their work will be exacerbated each day as time goes on. you can see nancy pelosi tomorrow on the "today" show. jeh johnson, thank you for being here with us and lending your expertise. panel, you're staying with us. joe manchin joins me as the shutdown drags on. what does he have to say about it? stay with us. >> how long do you think the government will stay partially shut down? >> it could be a long time. could be a long time. it's too important a subject to walk away from. i was here on christmas evening, i was all by myself in the white house. it's a big, big house. except for all the guys out on

the lawn with machine guns, f s fanciest machine guns i've ever seen.

welcome back. an american ex-marine arrested in moscow for spying was allowed to see john huntsman today. paul whelan was arrested by what the russian government called an espionage operation, but former officers said they believe the charges are actually a bargaining chip, maybe to use

for leverage for maria butina, the russian woman who recently pleaded guilty for failure to arrest a former agent. paul's brother said he was innocent is was in moscow for personal reasons. >> there is no way paul is a spy. he definitely wouldn't do anything to break the laws, and i can't imagine he would have broken spy laws in any country, let alone russia. >> secretary of state mike pompeo said this morning he will demand whelan's immediate return if he finds the detention is not appropriate. we'll be right back with democratic senator joe manchin. supervisor. now i'm a director at a security software firm. wow, you've been at it a long time. thing is, i like working. what if my retirement plan is i don't want to retire? then let's not create a retirement plan. let's create a plan for what's next. i like that. get a plan that's right for you.

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welcome back. democrats are emphatic they will not support money for a border wall, but one senate democrat said last summer that he would fund the wall. that senator is joe manchin of west virginia, a state donald trump won by more than 40 points in 2016. joe manchin also won his reelection.

he joins me now. senator, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you so much, katy. happy new year to you. >> where dua line yourseo you a today, the 5.6 billion that he wants for a border wall, or the democrats who say no? >> from the time i spoke to the president, i've gone clear back to the 2013 comprehensive immigration bill we did. we gave him more than he ever asked for. we supported $40 million of border security. when you talk about a wall, the op ttics of a wall is not what we're talking about. we're talking about some type of secured barrier. this secured barrier, if you talk to the cbb, they say that's some sort of high gate fencing type thing and it's more protective if you can see through it, so i know these optics are going back and forth. we need a secure border but it takes more than just a barrier to secure the border. we need the big x-ray machines to bring all the cargo in so we can check them, distribution

mail coming into our country, more border agents which our 2013 bill had every bit of that. that's what i keep going back to and now we're trying to piece it together. whatever works in a political sca square hole, i guess, i don't know. >> i assume you're talking about the gang of 8 bill, right? >> there was a gang of 8 but there was a gang of 16 who voted for it, democrat and republican. >> there was a lot more in there beyond just money for border security -- >> absolutely. >> -- and for fencing, not a wall. there was a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants. the dream act was part of it as well. do you think the president, who rejektcted these things, would come back to that as well? >> every time i've been in his presence, he's been very reat

the present time -- receptive to everything we talked about in that bill. i'm just hoping he basically comes to the understanding that you've got a house, which is a democratic-controlled house, a senate that are republican controlled and the two have to work together. we have to find a pathway forward. daca seems to be the one uniting grace that c-- race that can br everything together. the ones who want to be productive and get rid of the people who came here for the wrong reason is surmount. you need a border secured but that's what democrats need to talk about. >> will they secure that today with this president after everything that's happened in the last three and a half years since he ran? >> i would hope so. if you can't change your mind, you can't change anything, katy. you have to look -- the president is who he is, whether you voted for him or against him or you like him or not.

forget about the politics. basically we're dealing with the president of the united states. that's our job, to find a pathway forward. whether you're a democrat or republican as a senator or congressperson, you're sent here to do the best you can for your district or your state and your country. and if you forget that, then you're here for the wrong reason. >> i lot of the folks who were just elected to the house, the house democrats, were elected not to give the president money for his wall. >> well, they're going to vote their conscience and vote their constituency if that's what they believe they got voted and elected by. then they'll vote for their constituency. if there's 218 of them, nothing will happen. if there's not, if there's 30 or 40, they can still fulfill their obligation to their constituency base, and we can move on and secure the country. but we need a secure border, we need to have security, we need to have a pathway forward for

11, 12, 15 million people, make sure the people are here for the right reason, have a pathway to stay, make sure people aren't going to commit crimes and are here for the wrong reason and keep them out. let me say one thing about asylum that has not been talked about. we need to fix the asylum laws and i told the president this. mr. president, why don't we invest money into our embassies in the countries where most of these people are escaping from? they need to have some safe place. they need to be able to be protected and not make a two, three, four thousand mile journey to our border to have what we have going on right now? that should never be acceptable to anybody. i think there is a better way of doing it. >> the president is still saying there is a caravan coming to invade our southern border. is there? >> well, i haven't seen the caravan coming to invade, i see people trying to escape the harm that comes to them and their family. i'm sure the undesirables who are coming for the wrong reason are using those people as a shield and that shouldn't be done. if you take that away and you're

able to protect them in a safe haven with the expansion of our embassies, we can vet them to make sure they are qualified for asylum and then bring them to our country with welcome arms getting in out of harm's way, coming for the right reason. that's the most humane thing we can do. >> is this administration doing everything it can to make that possible? >> none much us are doing what we can and what we should be doing. >> we're talking about the ports of entry, the legal ports of entry. the president and dhs are trying to point everybody to. those have been slowed down. there are less process workers there able to process those folks who are waiting at the border to claim asylum. a lot of them are taking the more dangerous route to try and cross illegally. >> there is no doubt about it, katy. we need more judges in that area so we can process what's being done more quickly. it's inhumane. >> i just wonder if you think

the president and his administration are negotiating in good faith. >> the president is a one-person negotiator. i don't think there are that many people involved in it. until the president comes and his convictions are to the point where he says, listen, this is what we're going to do and this is why we're going to do it. we're going to lose some of the hard-core right. his basis for leaving, i don't think you can blow them off with a cake of dynamite, they're not leaving. he can fix this problem, and he has showed empathy toward that before, but when the meeting has ended and other people have come in to influence him, it's changed. we have six appropriation bills. we could keep most of this government open right now. six bills. >> what do the federal workers in west virginia want to see happen? >> oh, my goodness, they want to see a paycheck that they can cash. that's what they want to see. they're willing to work, they're good workers, and we just weren't raised this way. we weren't taught this way. it's just not who we are, katy. >> senator joe manchin, thank

you very much for being here. happy new year. >> happy new year to you. ahead, the 2020 vision changing over the political climate.

welcome back. the 2020 vision isn't the only democrat readying their hat for the presidential ring. a new candidate emerged this morning and he is focusing on climate change. >> i do want to make sure that

our capped dandidate in the fut focuses on growing clean energy that can focus on climate change. >> governor joe ensley may just be that candidate himself. he said his team is laying the grou groundwork for 2020. >> it is an urgent problem we need to bear down on. >> any candidate for federal office darn well better have a plan to deal with the problem that trump science advisers say could basically end this world. >> if climate change is really one of the key issues for democrats in 2020, insley's track record could make him a candidate. he wrote a book and set a tax in washington state. he may lack name i.d. right now,

but his signature issue is already at the forefront of the race. >> climate change will no longer be on the back burner. it will not be a peripheral issue. it is a central message. >> if nominated, insley would be the first democratic nominee from the west of texas, and elizabeth warren will join rachel maddow tonight. don't miss the interview at 9:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. we'll be back with more "mtp daily" right after this. insurance plan may help cover some of the rest. learn how an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company might be the right choice for you. a free decision guide is a great place to start. call today to request yours. so what makes an aarp medicare supplement plan unique? these are the only medicare supplement plans endorsed by aarp because they meet aarp's high standards of quality

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and is not for treating symptoms unrelated to parkinson's disease. nuplazid can cause changes in heart rhythm and should not be taken if you have certain abnormal heart rhythms or take other drugs that are known to cause changes in heart rhythm. tell your doctor about any changes in medicines you're taking. the most common side effects are swelling of the arms and legs and confusion. we spoke up and it made all the difference. ask your parkinson's specialist about nuplazid. i haven't said if i'm going to endorse in 2020. i'm going to wait to see what the alternatives are. susan, we didn't talk much about mitt romney and his op-ed why? let's talk about 2020. we have a number of democrats who are tiptoeing toward the edge of the water. elizabeth warren is getting all the big headlines right now. what's this going to look like

in the coming days and weeks? michelle, what do you think? >> first of all, i have full disclosure which is my husband's company has worked for warren, so i'm not actually really in the tank for any of them. i'm excited to see who catches on. i will say that catches on. instead of talking about whether warren is likable or electable, we have two very strong but very different progressive visions. it's not about who is more left or who is more right. they are both progressive but very different. whether it's a green new deal or elizabeth warren saying that this kind of one of the central threats in our society is income inequality. some of their policies will be the same but these are two very different approaches to what the progressive picture looks like.

>> the democrats are, if they want to win will need to find somebody who can break off enough of that trump support that trump tacked on the last m minute of 2016. the ones that voted for obama and switched to donald trump in 2016. who's the democrat that is most likely to convince those voters? >> at the moment that person looks like joe biden. i don't know that i agree with that assessment. one of the things we saw in 2016 or one of the emerging demonstrations of how you win an election including in 2018 is the fact that the party which is best able to motivate more of its base to come out and vote will be the party more successful. donald trump was good at getting republicans to come out and vote where they might not have otherwise done so. what the democrats need and a lot are coming around to this idea is someone who will get voters who stayed home in 2018. >> i'm getting some tissues to

try to mop up the water that phil just spilled. could we get a rag? when's your take? >> when you look at some of the polls, when you look at biden who is doing well in the polls even though it's very early and you also look at someone like beto -- >> is biden running? sglng i mean, it depends. a lot of folks want kpeerz. we have seen someone with no experience and how poorly it can go. i think you want someone who

offers hope and does match that movement within the democratic party. that goes to phillip's point of who will drive a turn out. it's hard to say. this is one other thing is it can't be someone who people think is just going to be donald trump. i don't think donald trump will be running. >> we'll see what happens with that. i think i spoke too narrowly. it will be somebody who picks off the voters or inspires minority voters. one of the lessons of the midterms is if you can turn out non-voters you can -- that will kind of get you a lot further than trying to go after this relatively small sliver of kind of obama to trump voters. >> there's also, yes you have to get that turn out but the democrats have so much more opportunities to find new voters to come out to vote.

republicans have just limited themselves. the republican party is not growing in any shape or form. the democrats are also in an advantage they have a little more room to play with because they don't just need voter turn out. >> are there democrats worried that the top of the polls are all white men in. >> i think that's the case. i think it will change. i'm fascinated by michael bloomberg who thinks this is the moment in which a white male billion naaire can be the face the democrat party. >> a debate between michael bloomberg and donald trump would be must see tv. just as somebody who covered

michael bloomberg and donald trump, it would be must see tv. thank you so much. michelle i hope you're not too wet. phil, bad. thank you. ahead, the bare unnecessities. the bare unnecessities. you might take something for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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call for a free quote today. liberty mutual insurance. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hey, batter, batter, [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. but i know the importance of having time to do what you love. at comcast we know our customers' time is valuable. that's why we have 2-hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. so you can do more of what you love. my name is tito, and i'm a tech-house manager at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. we are on day 12 of the government shutdown and we're left with many questions including how long will this last? will lawmakers reach a deal and

also when will we get the national zoo panda cam back? the smithsonian shut down the zoo and the camera last night. go to the panda cam website and this is what you'll see. a lot of black, but no black and white. on the fact page the zoo writes the cam requires federal resources, primarily staff to run any broadcast. they arenon-essential. non-essential. these cameras are non non-essential. i could make panda puns about how the zoo has been bamboozled or wie can use out shut down lemons to make lemonade. behold our interim panda cam. ♪

♪ you can find it on the meet the press social media. it will be up until the shutdown is over and the camera is restored or until you simply find it unbearable. that's all for tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more mtp daily. the beat with ari melber starts now. we haven't had a hand off in a while. >> what if we don't want to find it? >> you don't have to go look. that's the beauty of it. >> choice. >> choice. you have a remote control you can change the channel now if you wanted to. >> i don't know why you would be baiting people to change the channel now that you're done with your show. >> this has been one way to start the year. >> happy new year. i look forward to so many more of these. >> cheers. all