the standard & poor's 500 is down as well as is the nasdaq composite. we're ending off on a low note. it's kind of disturbing we're ending off on a down tick but i'll continue to cover that for you. that wraps up a busy hour for me. "deadline white house" with katy tur in for nicolle wallace starts right now. >> i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. the washington president trump has come to know in his first two years in office is now a thing of the past. today the white house. today is a day the white house has long dreaded. the new congress has officially been installed and democrats have officially taken control of the house which means gone is the republican firewall that is so far helped to protect donald trump and his administration from oversight and investigations. setting the tone for this potentially dangerous new world, the president finds himself facing an ominous message from the newly minted house speaker

nancy pelosi that may show president trump just how vulnerable he could soon become. >> do you believe the special counsel should honor and observe the department of justice guidance that states a sitting president cannot be indicted? >> i do not think that that is conclusive. no, i do not. >> could robert mueller come back and say i am seeking an indictment? >> i think that is an open discussion. i think that is an open discussion in terms of the law. >> it is that open discussion that may come to define the remainder of trump's presidency. as special counsel robert mueller marches toward a crucial final phase of the russia investigation with legal experts predicting the biggest indictments are still to come. and as if to confirm that the president and his legal team are feeling the pressure, his attorney rudy giuliani has resumed his legal publicity tour, making the types of appearances we tend to see when he wants to get ahead of big

developments in the investigation. and he appears to be honing that defense. he's been preparing against mueller's findings which sounds a little something like this. maybe trump and his campaign did collude with russia. obstruct an investigation. and run a hush money scheme to help win an election. so what? >> this is an investigation in search of a crime and they haven't found one yet. collusion is not a crime. it's not a crime! firing comey is not a crime. it's a campaign krcontributions are not criminal. they're paying off a possible civil judgment. this is make up a crime, make up a crime, make up a crime hoping to find one eventually. >> joining us, chief white house correspondent peter baker, former u.s. attorney joyce vance, former federal prosecutor paul butler and nick confessore for "the new york times." well, it's hard to come after a response like that, but peter baker, i'm going to hand it over

to you. how much pressure is donald trump feeling right now, and is that part of the reason we see rudy giuliani making outrageous claims like that on television? >> well, look, you know, he does feel pressure, obviously. the last few weeks for the holiday break were filled with one court action after another. the possibility of real threat to this president in the coming year. then you see, of course, the house democrats taking over the house today. that is a different kind of threat where for the first time he faces subpoena power on the part of all these chairman who can investigate for themselves and don't have to wait for robert mueller or anybody else who might be looking at various aspects of the president's conduct in office or his personal finances or his businesses or any of that kind of thing. so it's a very stressful moment for the president. having said that there is an advantage to this moment. having nancy pelosi out there as a foil is something the president is looking forward to.

he tends to operate a little more naturally for him anyway when he has somebody to fight with. he likes to have a fight. he wants to have a fight and it's better for him to have a fight with democrats than republican congress and now he's got an enemy to focus on when he gets out there and argues his case. >> it's better to have a fight with somebody who has some power n the democrats in a position of power he has more of an argument for why his legislation is not getting passed or more of an argument for those who want to cheer him on and feel like he is being victimized. joyce, he might welcome the fight, but it's not just going to be about a policy fight. he's going to be facing some very serious investigations. it is a brand-new world for him. investigations and oversight that he did not face in the last two years with the republican-controlled congress. >> this congress is -- looks like it's loaded for bear at this point in time.

pelosi has brought over an experienced former doj lawyer who left shortly after this administration began. a guy named doug letter who was in doj's civil appellate division. he'll run a tight shop. subpoenas will start flying. this will be a serious investigation. it won't be a witch hunt. it won't be scattergun. i expect it will be tightly focused and congress will engage in its job which is oversight. a normal presidency might be annoyed but could withstand it. this presidency, it could be a fatal blow, frankly. >> it's not just the president himself. there's going to be investigations potentially and subpoenas coming to the president's own family, joyce. >> i think that's right. you know, this is a multifront investigation. certainly congress will be interested in the activities of all senior trump officials, including ivanka and jared but also this double threat at least coming out of the southern district of new york. maybe a triple threat coming from the new york attorney

general with folks looking at the foundation, at trump organization and with trump's children running those entsities because he refused to put his assets into a blind trust there is no telling where these investigations could go. >> and investigations potentially have very serious consequences. nancy pelosi, the most senior democratic leader so far to say that indictment of a sitting president is an open question. would not rule it out. it's something we've been discussing at length on msnbc since this investigation started. how significant is it for nancy pelosi to say that this morning to savannah guthrie? >> it's very important. the fun part of trump's presidency is over. if you can call it that. the hard part is now starting. there are now two acts he's investigating. and she is saying i regard that as an opinion but it's not settled law. it's not in the constitution. she is telling her base, look, i'm open to this. slow down. let's see what the facts are.

but i'm not going to be bound by a precedent that hasn't been tested in court. >> is she straddling a line? >> just occupying a good position, i think. >> in terms of whether he can be indicted, a sitting president can be indicted, that's an open legal question. how much will the acting attorney general or the next attorney general have? how much stay will that person have over the answer to that question? >> that person will have complete control which is why it's not going to happen. and sitting -- a sitting president will not be indicted for two reasons. one is, robert mueller would have to be the person or be the likely person to bring the indictment. this is a guy who goes straight by the book famously, when he ran the fbi. he wouldn't even wear a blue short. only white shirts. so the department of the policy is don't indict a sitting president. wait until he or she is out of the office. he'll follow that. and second, as you said, the decision ultimately would be up to the acting attorney general whitaker or barr who may be

confirmed as attorney general, and they would not permit a sitting president to be indicted. >> but even if he is not indicted, impeachment is still on the table. nancy pelosi didn't rule that out either today. >> of course not. look, i think a substantial portion of her party would like to impeach the president and believes there's already enough on the table to do so. she is saying let's not get thaefd mueller investigation. let's go step by step. there's no reason for democrats to push the envelope despite pressure from their own base. and until there's an alarm to taeblg, she is right. >> let's play that sound one more time. >> many democrats are talking about impeachment. you've said it would be sad and divisive for the country. >> it would be. >> to pursue impeachment. are you willing to rule it out? >> we have to wait and see what happens with the mueller report. we shouldn't be impeaching for a

political reason. and we shouldn't avoid impeachment for a political reason. so we just have to see how it comes. >> that last part is key. should not avoid impeachment for a political reason because the concern now is, what if the mueller report contains compelling evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors by the president of the united states, but speaker pelosi and other democrats decide it's not in their best interest politically to pursue that? >> the white house, peter, are they prepared for this onslaught of investigations? do they have anything more than rudy giuliani and his appearances on television? >> no, i don't think they're really ready for it. i think they're starting to grasp what's coming and they are looking for help, legal help and otherwise. but i don't think they really fully created a war room that you would want. i don't think they've ever lived through the kind of blizzard they're about to have. remember this is not only a president who has never served

in political office but a lot of people around him haven't really lived through that before in any previous administration either. so i think they are in for a real tough time. you know, i think, though, what you see nancy pelosi say, it shouldn't be about politics. impeachment is a political act. it's not a criminal act. not a court of law. as gerald ford once said, high crimes and misdemeanors means whatever a majority of the house of representatives thinks it means. they'll apply politics. jerry nadler is the chairman of the house judiciary committee. he's already said that the cohen orchestrated hush money to these women, for instance, could be an impeachable crime but it doesn't mean it justifies the act of impeachment. of course they'll apply standards of, is it a politically smart thing to do if, in fact, they can't get a conviction in the senate? that's going to be a factor in any consideration going forward. >> but, peter, i'm stuck on what you say that they are not ready for this. i mean, they've known this is

coming for months now. sure rly there are people who te in to cable news and hear us talking about this. surely there are folks listening to what democratic lawmakers are saying when they're saying we're going to start various investigations. they've surely seen those lists of all the toings they want to look into. do they just believe they're bulletproof snf is that why there's not a war room or is the president himself refusing to allow a war room to be created? >> look, intellectually, they understand this is coming. it's a different thing to know it intellectually and to really be prepared for it and organized for it. this is a president who doesn't have a full-fledged chief of staff at this point. couldn't find anybody to do it so he has an acting chief of staff at the moment. he doesn't have a political circle around him with the experience of these previous high-octane, high-charged powerful investigation kind of periods that obama, bush,

clinton, all of them live through at some point or another. and it's going to be awhile until they get themselves in a situation where they are ready for that. >> i wonder how much of the mentality that we saw during the campaign which was that none of it really matters. whatever you throw at us, it doesn't matter because our voters are going to be with us and they may not have fully believed that at the time. that may have been their justification but after donald trump won, that whole mentality where you can't touch us, we are bulletproof did sink in. >> it's hard to imagine how much worse things would get for the president from here. if they have a certain fatalism that is can't get better and we'll just hunker down, i can totally get that. half his cabinet seemingly has been forced to resign for ethics problems. he's being investigated by a special counsel. if the house democrats throw some more stones at them, you know, in some ways it's just more water in the boat. and what can they do? they can barely prepare for normal course of business.

>> there was also news about matthew whitaker, the acting attorney general, revealing the ins and outs or some of the ins and outs of an investigation currently under -- something currently under investigation in the doj. what do you make of that? to somebody who is not currently employed at the doj? acting ag whitaker reveals federal prosecutors still investigating claims of gop misconduct. >> it's an incredibly distressing piece of news. the story, and we get it from the person on the other end of the conversation, former attorney general ed meese, says he had lunch with acting attorney general whitaker and during that lunch, whitaker disclosed to him details of the ongoing doj investigation that involves hillary clinton's e-mails, whatever mismash former attorney general sessions managed to put together. this is ethically inappropriate, and the acting attorney general should immediately be referred

to opr, the office inside of doj that looks into whether or not prosecutors violate their ethical obligations. there is an even more sinister twist to those -- to this, though, and it would depend upon the content. we don't have any reason to believe he would have disclosed information but doing that would be a criminal violation that would put this into the inspector general's lens. really inappropriate to have a conversation with folks outside of the department about ongoing investigations. and the fact this actually has leaked out now has to open up further questions about whitaker's conduct. >> it already has, very clearly, since you're raising those questions. there is a bit of news out of the white house. there was an overhead announcement among the -- in the press room at the white house. sarah sanders will hold a briefing. it was to happen at 4:10. we're not going to go to it, but it is interest, peter.

the white house does feel the need to scramble to get on the record for something today. what do you think it could be? >> the day has been dominated by the democrats taking over the house, nancy pelosi, the images with her up there with the gavel surrounded by children, in a festive mood. it means they want to -- at the white house, they want to reset the debate in effect. they want to make it about the border wall and how the democrats are not willing to go along with what they say is an honest and reasonable proposal to protect the country. remember right now the debate is about, do we reopen the government? nancy pelosi, what she's going to do is put bills forward that will reopen the vast majority of the parts of government that are closed right now while leaving the debate over the wall for a different day. that's something the president has not signed up on this point and clearly what the white house wants to do is get their side of the story out there. >> are we sure it's going to be sarah sanders and not somebody else potentially higher in the administration? >> that's a good question.

usually when she comes out, she often does come out with a guest star, either a cabinet person or chief of staff. as you say, wouldn't surprise me if the president himself came out. this is one white house where anything goes. >> no doubt about that. what do they need -- this is pelosi's first day today. there's going to be a host of investigations. the day was dominated by what was happening in the house. dominated by the shutdown still happening as well. what would the message the white house -- what would it be, the message they want to get on the record with this late in the afternoon? >> we're still here, right? they have had two or three terrible news cycles. and not to sound tactical about it, but it's good for them to step on nancy pelosi's big day and say, look, if she wants to fight, we'll fight. we'll rally their base, make some of their reporters feel less depressed about it. he spent yesterday in a meeting with a weird movie poster in front of him and talking about his generals. they're way off track on this

stuff. it may be an effort to bring them back on track. >> talking about his popularity in utah or europe. >> or the wall and issues he's fighting about right now. >> we saw when speaker pelosi took that gavel, she looked like a boss. she's got -- and her committees now will have extraordinary subpoena power. so they get trump's tax records, which the republicans prevented the people from having access to, unlike every other president. and they get to subpoena robert mueller if attorney general barr, if he's confirmed or whitaker makes that move and says that the report isn't made public or they changed things, then she will be able to summon mueller and require him to state everything that he's discovered. >> it bears repeating that this is a brand-new world the president has not faced anything like this in the two years he's been in office. divided government, yes, but house -- the house is now in -- being run by the democrats, and he's going to face oversight and ethics investigations that he

has not seen before. peter baker, paul butler, joyce vance, thank you for spending some time with us. when we come back, now that democrats are in charge of the house, their first order of business is getting the government back open. but with both sides at an impasse over the wall, it all comes down to one question -- which side has the most to lose politically? plus, another day in the swamp as new questions are raised about the president's incoming cabinet. one of his most recently booted cabinet members is now being investigated by the justice department. and as the race to 2020 takes off, key democrats are lining up behind their choice. finding your perfect hotel at the lowest price... is as easy as dates, deals, done! simply enter your destination and dates... and see all the hotels for your stay! tripadvisor searches over 200 booking sites... to show you the lowest prices... so you can get the best deal on the right hotel for you.

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today has been dominated by nancy pelosi, but all of a sudden with nothing on their schedule, the white house has just announced a white house press briefing. we're wondering what it is all about. hallie jackson is standing by in the white house briefing room. hallie, 4:10 was what we were told. it's 4:22. we are sure it's going to be sarah sanders? >> no. i just asked the deputy press secretary hogan who would be coming out and he said sarah sanders. it's been a lot emptier in the west wing so if we see her it will be the first time in days since the holiday she's come out in person in this room at least. we've seen several white house officials, of course, coming out in these impromptu discussions on the driveway outside the west wing. and the line today so far has revolved mostly around those talking points from the white house about the border wall, border security and how the president is not budging from

this demand. the white house officials we've talked to, including kellyanne conway just today have not nailed down a number the president would be comfortable with to reopen government. if sanders does come out here, that will be a question folks want to ask. i covered this administration since day one. i don't think i've ever seen a briefing room this empty and that speaks to how improommptu this is. so we expect some action, hopefully in the next couple of minutes. this has been a day dominated by nancy pelosi and that exclusive interview with savannah guthrie, she talked about the idea of being open to the possibility of impeachment and perhaps that's something they want to talk about today. vice president pence was on the hill and in a rare moment, he does not usually stop and talk with cameras, but he chose to do that. willingly walk over and talk with our team over there about what he wants to see in order to

end this shutdown. lawmakers have been invited and accepted the invitation to in to the white house tomorrow around 11:30 for round two after yesterday's round and round in su circles. no word on the shutown as it stretches into day 14 tomorrow. that dubious milestone of two weeks in a matter of 24 hours. at this point, it's a new congress, new political reality for the president, and it is a real question mark as to whether or not this government will reopen after this partial shutdown any time before the weekend. >> have we nailed down if any lawmakers are going to be at the white house tomorrow to continue negotiations? >> pardon me for checking my phone and e-mails. i think we saw a note from our hill team and i'm just trying to scroll to find that now. i think we'll see nancy pelosi at the white house tomorrow. so she'll definitely be here. that will be the first time the president will come face to face with speaker pelosi, right, rather than speaker designate pelosi. she'll have had the gavel in her

hand and the president, based on our reporting, according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions yesterday, the president said, listen, everybody pause. come back after leadership elections, after that is over. perhaps the thinking was from the white house they would make more progress at that point. we know at least pelosi will be here meet with the president, the vice president and that negotiating team which has been led by mick mulvaney. he's been around on the hill today for the swearing in as well as jared kushner. >> hallie, stick with us. if you get anything, pop in and let us know. i want to bring in my panel. rick sangle is a former under secretary of state. karine jean-pierre, senior adviser to moveon.org and brett stevens. nick is still here as well. so the white house announcing this improommptu press conferen. nancy pelosi has just taken the gavel. day 13 of a government shutdown. what is the goal here? >> presumably, the goal is to resolve -- i wish the goal would

be to come to a compromise to resolve the shutdown. i suspect that's not the least -- that's the last thing on sarah sanders' mind or maybe the president's. i think he sees this as the crucible of his presidency, something that he is either going to win or that's essentially the end of the trump presidency until 2020. >> the democrats say they're not budging from this wall. >> and they should not. >> the president says he's not budging from his demand for the wall. >> but the wall is not a policy. it's just rhetoric. it's awful rhetoric. it's a rallying cry. you remember this, katy, when you were covering his rallies and the president those two years of the presidency. and it's -- policy folks have said, smarter people than i have said this is not a policy that's going to work. we should not -- democrats should not stand by this. they should fight for it and say no to this wall. >> let's talk about the wall and what it meant to donald trump's

voters. there's a lot of talk out there and lindsey graham said if donald trump doesn't build the wall, he's done, it's over. there's this idea that donald trump supporters will not stand by him if he does not build a wall. yes, when we were on the campaign trail we heard the calling response. yes, people were enthusiastic about it. when you talk to individual voters, they did not hold drmp to that promise. again, if it's a promise, he's already broke ten because mexico is not paying for it. they wanted donald trump to win because they, and this is from the conversations i had, because they believe that whatever decision he made when he got into office would be the right decision. it seems like donald trump is being held hostage not by this idea whof his base is and what they want, but rather what right wing media wants. we've just been told that donald trump himself is coming out to the briefing room. he's going to take questions from reporters. we're going to go to this. we're going to go right now, in fact. here's the president of the united states. >> hello, everybody.

it's a beautiful place. i haven't seen it. beautiful place. happy new year. happy new year to everybody. well, thank you very much. i appreciate that. thank you. i just want to start by congratulating nancy pelosi on being elected speaker of the house. it's a very, very great achievement, and hopefully we're going to work together and get lots of things done, like infrastructure and so much more. i know they want to do that very badly. so do i. so hopefully we'll have a lot of things we can get done together. and i think it's actually going to work out. i think it will be a little different than a lot of people are thinking. so i congratulate nancy. tremendous, tremendous achievement. and i just wanted to explain to folks that i'm with today. people i've known very well over the last two years. people that have been extremely supportive of what we're doing on the border. they are tough. they are smart. they think. they love our country. they have every quality, and

i'll tell you what. i really know them well, and they have the kind of qualities that we need in our country, and they've done a fantastic job at the border. it's i.c.e. and it's border patrol, and a man who has really become a friend in a sense, brandon. i will say this, brandon judd has been a stalwart in terms of justice for people, in terms of fairness, and in terms of the toughness you need. you have some pretty tough situations. it doesn't get much tougher. so i just want to thank brandon and all of the folks. i'm going to have them introduce themselves right now. and also say a few words about the wall, about -- you can call it a barrier, whatever you want. but essentially we need protection in our country. we're going to make it good. the people of our country want it. i have never had so much support as i have in the last week over my stance for border security,

for border control and for, frankly, the wall or the barrier. i have never had anything like it in terms of calls coming in, in terms of people writing in and tweeting and doing whatever they have to do. i've never had this much support, and we've done some things that have been very popular. so i'm going to ask brandon judd to just step forward and say a few words. this group has apprehended, last year, 17,000 criminals trying to get across the border. 17,000. and that's one category. there are plenty of others. and the other thing that has been so incredible is what they've done in terms of drugs and stopping drugs. and with that, and with everything else, plenty, unfortunately come through our southern border. but i'm going to ask brandon to come up, say a few words and maybe introduce our friends and some very brave people. brandon, please? thank you. >> the president of the united

states clearly wanting to take the day's narrative back. not from nancy -- or back from speaker nancy pelosi, back from the new democratic congress, back from what the democrats are demanding in order to get the government back open or what they're offering to get the government back open. and back to the border. and his demand for a wall. that i believe is the first time he's officially gone into the briefing room and addressed reporters. and the first thing he does, rick, is to bring out border security. >> well, he's trying to step on nancy pelosi's day. she had a wonderful day where she took the oath with young children there, but to go back to your question about why he harps on the wall, i'm going to take it to the furthest extreme. there was talk of impeachment today. there was talk of what the house can do. what he's looking at is that ultimately, to be convicted, he needs to get two-thirds -- he needs one-third of the senate to protect him. by refocusing on the wall, which is the ultimate kind of judgment

that his base makes about him, he wants -- >> but that's my point. it's not the ultimate judgment his base makes. it's the ultimate judgment we're seeing rush limbaugh and laura ingraham and right wing media make about him. >> it's his calculation that's the ultimate thing. there's one thing they'll hold him to. that's the one thing they'll hold him to. and those senators in states where he has plus 50% rating would never vote to -- >> i agree with rick. his base will forgive lots of lies and promises not being kept but the wall is -- >> i don't agree. >> i don't agree. if you talk to people. what if he doesn't build a wall and they say it's fine, i trust his judgment. that wasn't just one person or one guy that decided i want to see the show of this. it was a general feeling that what they wanted was somebody to go in and make things change. make washington work. and to be stronger, a stronger presence around the world. he had a unique opportunity to do almost anything he wanted among the voters that decided to put him in that office.

>> but he made immigration the centerpiece of the -- >> he could have done that by making it a very strong border as opposed to a wall. >> the easiest thing to do right now is you know when i said wall, what i meant was security. then we'd have an agreement with democrats because we are for securing -- democrats are for securing the border. that can mean better patrolling, policing, monitoring. his image of a wall and all it conveys culturally that is so important for his rank and file. >> you hit the nail on the head. he, himself, has boxed himself into a corner by saying it needs to be a wall and not just saying we're going to tighten security. we've made some more fencing and some various areas. we're using drones. we've added more officers to the border patrol. it's donald trump himself who has put himself in that corner. >> and he's essentially stayed on this one note for a long time. there have been multiple times where donald trump could have gotten his wall where democrats

and the bipartisan policy, bipartisan legislation, where democrats agreed to $25 billion for a wall. and he said no to it. it's been more than once. he's stuck on this. stuck in the campaign time and wants to continue throwing red meat to his base because he thinks this excites his base but, yet, to your point, yeah, there is -- he watches cable news. he gets affected by what people are saying and they bullied him. and he kind of went back. >> people are calling, writing in, tweeting. what he means is i'm watching fox. >> i'm watching fox news. fox and friends. >> this is a seinfeld shutdown about nothing. the president is talking about building a wall where we heard well lots of fences and walls to solve a crisis that he largely created. there is no huge crisis

>> i wonder if he's just more comfortable fighting, period. >> well, the problem with the government shutdown and to get into the kind of american patriotism thing is that it doesn't work for anybody. the long ter goes on, and the longer americans feel like my life isn't affected by the fact the government is shut down, that plays into donald trump's hands because he is the anti-government president. he has never actually realized that he's running the government. he doesn't feel accountable for what the government does. when people feel like the government isn't doing much he feels like, what does that mean whether the government is in session or not? a lot of americans are going, what does it matter if the government is shut down? it's to not good for anybody and it's probably better for trump than the democrats. >> the model for him should be clinton in early 1995. remember, 1994, clinton takes a huge drubbing, loses the -- the democrats lose the house for the first time in over 40 years.

they lose the senate. and what clinton was able to do, very smartly, was he was picking his spots. he reached historic compromises with the republicans on subjects, declared the era of big government was over but fought them on others. one way he fought them and won was on newt gingrich's government shutdown because it turns out americans don't like seeing hundreds of thousands of people being -- >> it was extraordinarily strategic but i don't think this president has any strategy. there's no strategy other than i'm going to fight, fight, fight, fight and it's not necessarily because he doesn't have advisers who are trying to develop strategy. he doesn't listen to anybody. he is his own best adviser. that briefing that the white house scheduled all of a sudden is now over. the president didn't take any questions from reporters. first time in the briefing room, where the reporters are, and the president didn't take a single question. >> to your point, he likes to fight. he likes having a foil. and that's why it's going to be interesting to see how he and nancy, speaker pelosi do.

you have to remember, he's not giving pelosi a nickname. he finds her to be formidable. he respects her. but the problem he doesn't realize is that nobody has ever betted against nancy pelosi and won money. she, really, right now, donald trump is an emperor with no clothes on. she knows exactly what she's dealing with. she's taken on far smarter political adversaries, political men than donald trump. >> so what happens with the republicans? the republicans stand in line behind donald trump or at some point do they say this is not worth it for us politically? >> well, what bret was saying about clinton, the tomorrow we all used back then was triangulation. what trump did in kind of giving this hosanna to the speaker is saying like, i can triangulate with nancy and maybe come out somewhere in between. i think he wants to see if he can do some deal. that's what the american public always wants is to see both sides come together. and it's not -- it's not impossible. they could do something with

infrastructure right away. >> it's not. i agree. there's infrastructure. there's opening up the government, yes. >> that is one area where there can be compromise. but i don't know if he wants compromise. >> because the story of trump's life is the art of the failed deal. so -- the opposite of -- >> it's also the art of the chip on his shoulder. everybody is out to get him. he's been nailing himself to a cross for the past 40 years. >> and i don't think there's going to be a deal for a long time. >> here's the other problem, too. he came out. wanted to reset that button because we saw what happened just moments ago. nancy pelosi became speaker again. and it was a reminder that, hey, the congress is the most diverse congress of ever. it reminds you what happened november 6th to republicans. it reminds him, hey, everything changed for you at noon today. now you are seriously in trouble. and so i think that now we're seeing that donald trump that we're just going to continue to spiral even farther.

and that's what we're going to see. he's going to be fighting all the way. >> the stream of consciousness president. and without a strong chief of staff there to try and keep him in check it worked for a little while with john kelly. and mick mulvaney's first run at it. president trump had the cabinet meeting yesterday which lasted 95 minutes and he talked about nothing and everything at the same time. a cabinet that's adding more lobbyists while departing members are under federal investigation. it probably isn't the best look. okay, i picked out my dream car.

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i want the entire corrupt washington establishment to hear and to hear and to heed the words i am about to say. we are going to drain the swamp. mr. trump, drain the swamp! and we are going to drain the

swamp. when we win on november 8th, we are going to washington, d.c., and we are going to drain the swamp! >> drain the swamp. a campaign promise as real it seems as mexico paying for the wall. when you take a look at who is working in trump's cabinet now as pointed out by eric lipton of the "new york times." a defense department run by a former boeing executive. the epa run by a former coal lobbyist. the department of health and human services run by a former pharmaceutical lobbyist. and the department of interior run by a former oil industry lobbyist. the new acting secretary david bernhart took over after ryan zinke left. now they are examining whether zinke lied to inspector general investigators. rick, kareen, bret and nick are

still here. drain the swamp was a campaign promise. is this what happens when you put a new york state developer in charge? >> it was almost as laughable as getting mexico to pay for the wall. we should be discriminating. patrick shanahan was a terrific executive at boeing. he turned the 787 program around. never intended to be the secretary of defense. that happened because jim mattis chose to resign. alex aczar at health and human services has a long record in government. he was deputy of the department, 10 or 15 years ago. so we should be careful about who we're calling -- who we're calling lobbyists, but it tells you something about the ethical culture of the trump administration and once again, a president who delivers the opposite of what he promised. >> is it just the president, everything about him is just an empty promise? he puts his name on buildings he didn't build. says drain the swamp and the swamp just multiplies?

>> no, i think what's going on here, and i reported about it a lot is there was essentially a vacuum in the trump administration. and these are the people who rushed in to fill the vacuum. he didn't have a real transition, or it was half a transition. >> he did and threw it away. >> couldn't get a lot of the regular republicans to serve. some, not many. who do you hire? the hired guns. i'll come in and do a tour. and what happened was the permanent class filled the breach and rushed in to fill the cabinet. >> these are lobbyists. i mean, the permanent swamp people. in the old days, the republicans, look, they wanted to get rid of the education department, the energy department. even ronald reagan, george bush, they'd put in guys who knew how to run those agencies. maybe they were more conservative than our interiors or hhs, but they didn't want to actually unwind them and abolish them. the people trump has in there are people who look at their entire agencies as places that shouldn't exist and want to undermine everything they've

done over the past 15, 20 years. >> and people mired in scandal after scandal after scandal or investigations. zinke is under investigations. he's just resigned. under investigation for lying to the inspector general. he's not the only one among trump's inner circle, or circle that's been found to have lied to a federal investigator. there's a long list now. >> yeah, i do believe that the fish rots at its head and they take their cue from the president. you have lobbyists, protectionists, unqualified administration, cabinet secretaries. and, you know, this is definitely the most corrupt administration that i've seen in my lifetime and that says a lot. >> it's also very telling that we have a whole number of departments of government who weren't confirmed by the senate to their oath. shouldn't be there. matthew whitaker should not be the acting attorney general. chief law enforcement officer of the united states. this is a problem not simply

with the corruption, which i'll absolutely grant to you, but simply the incompetence of the administration that we just don't have a president who can retain talented personnel to what ought to be the plummest jobs in washington. >> it's fair as bret says not to cast too many aspersions on lobbyists as a group. in some ways it reflects what's happened in washington which is that everyone who serves becomes a lobbyist or consultant in some way. but what is true is a lot of these people are in trouble for behaviors that emulated the president's behaviors. taking fancy plane flights they shouldn't have. feather bedding while in office. that is a unique stink emanating from the head of this fish. it is not kind of universal to washington. >> but when you talk about lobbyists, and most americans hear the word lobbyist and they don't have a positive response. and when you ask most americans what they want of their -- out of their government, they will tell you that they want there to be less corruption.

it was the single biggest issue in the 2018 election. 77% of respondents said reducing the influence of special interest and corruption in washington ranked as their most important factor. the only issue that ranked higher was the economy. so second issue. but you hear that by and large and donald trump, part of the reason he ran was he was going to drain the swamp, get new people involved. how come this is not -- >> h.r. 1, the first bill that will be introduced under pelosi is about taming the swamp. the laws that were passed in 2006 didn't really do so. it probably will not get passed but it was just a complete slogan that probably tested well for the reason trump did it, but the other thing is among independent voters, which people are going to be looking at for the next two years, it ranks at 80% of independent voters think it's the mofst important issue. >> what sort of candidate will come out of the democratic side? >> drain the swamp is important. this did not mean the same thing to his voters as it does in the

conventional usage of lobbyists. when he said drain the swamp, his voters, from being on the trail -- >> meant democrats? >> his voters thought of washington as a place run by weird confligeration of the gop establishment and the clinton foundation handing out government benefits to people not like me. that's their idea of the swamp. he said i'm going to drain that swamp. in a sense he did. i'm just saying. raise your hand if you are a democrat and want to be president.

he hasn't announced he's running yet, and lr former vice president joe biden is racking up endorsements for 2020. the latest comes from senator dianne feinstein of california, who says his experience is really important at this particular point in where we are today. the senator's comments follow andrew cuomo who said biden brings the secret ingredient. credibility. the panel still here. is biden running? >> i don't know, right? i don't know. but he's run several times before. he did extremely badly every time. he supported the iraq war, i believe. i don't think he's going to be a viable candidate for very long if he does run. >> what do you think? >> i worked in the obama administration. i got to know vice president biden, and i don't know if he's going to run. i think you have to believe what

he says. he has to talk to his family, which i'm sure he did during the holiday. and he'll make his decision. and his family is very important to him. >> should he run? >> yes. he brings graf as the, experience, normalcy and decency to the white house and he restores it for the united states. >> what i would say is, he really wants to run, he's a great guy, we all know that. what i worry about is whether we're fighting the last war, if democrats are fighting the last war, nominating an older candidate who says, well, he'll get those voters in michigan and wisconsin and pennsylvania that hillary clinton didn't get. that's fighting the last war. lot's reassemble the obama coalition and add to it. that won two democratic elections with more than 50% of the votes. >> who is that candidate? >> i don't know. >> give me a name. >> warren might be running. >> beto o'rourke. i don't know. people are looking for a generational shift. i was thinking the john f.

kennedy line, the torch is passed to a new generation. you want somebody who has a clear contrast with trump in all kinds of ways, including youth and vitality. >> does that just mean a younger candidate, or a candidate that's not a man or a candidate that's not a white man? >> or it could be mike bloomberg, who's a real billionaire. >> we'll see. >> i just want to say, i agree with rick. i think there's something we forget. yes, hillary clinton won the popular vote last time, clearly not the electoral vote, but there were a lot of people who stayed home, who we could just inspire and get new voters to come out. it doesn't have to be, you know, going after the voters that donald trump won -- >> yeah. but who is that candidate? who is the candidate that's going to get people all of their couch, or whatever, and into the voting booth to say, i'm going to take a chance on this person. i feel like they're going to respe represent me? >> another name to consider, amy klobuchar of minnesota. i think he brings the right regional perspective. she's a woman. chef has broad experience in the

senate. and i think she can appeal to a lot of middle of the road, middle of the country voters who need to be brought back to the fold of the democratic party. >> here's the final word. there is no one around this table who has any clue who is going to get the nomination right now or who can best do this thing that we all think is probably a good strategy for the eventual nominee. we have no idea and no one knows nothing, we'll just have to see it play out, including me. >> you know nothing, nick. >> that's right. >> that's why it's great that the voters will choose. >> exactly. we will be right back. will be . (engaging uptempo music)

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i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts with chris in for chuck. we did a switch-a-radoo. >> we did. if it's thursday, the new speaker has spoken. >> good evening. welcome to "mtp daily." folks, welcome to a new and daunting political reality for president trump, as we get our first taste of how nancy pelosi and how democrats are going to wield their newfound power against him, which, apparently, has the president reeling. just a few hours ago, nancy pelosi made history by taking back the speaker's gavel, and her first major act as speaker will be a major rebuke