well, it is a few year and a brand-new era. democrats control the house, the most diverse congress in history has been sworn in and madam speaker, nancy pelosi, officially took back the gavel on thursday. lots of americans feeling more hopeful amany i'd the return to divided government. but probably not one particular guy in washington. donald trump, he's about to enter a whole new world without the protection of house republicans. democratic efforts are already under way to obtain trump tax returns. to take a deeper look into his business dealings and his ties to russia. to bring in potentially corrupt members and former members to testify before congress am hearings. not to mention the possibility of impeachment and, of course, the democrats now also have their own priorities. the green new deal. health care, voting rights, just to name a few. but all of that is currently overshadowed by if government shutdown, now in day 15 with no

end in sight. >> so we told the president we needed the government opened. he resisted. he said he'd keep the government closed for a very long period of time, months or even years. >> i think it will be over with sooner than people think. but i will do whatever we have to do. if we have to stay out for a very long period of time, we're going to do that. >> joining me is an opinion writer for "the washington post and a senior adviser at moveon.org and political editor at msnbc and michael steele political analyst making his 2019 debut. we missed you, michael. >> it's so good to be back. >> nothing happening, right? >> why a victory into the new year? >> you have just been sitting around doing needle point. >> needle point? >> you don't do needle point? well, you should. >> i should. i was going to do a little needle point of that fire pelosi

bus. i remember that. someone flattened the tires on that. >> i come to you first. you and i have had this conversation before. in which nancy pelosi was the star of the show. the way you crafted the messaging, it was all focused on her, of keeping her out of power. >> that worked for a short time. now nancy pelosi's reputation really from that point on, she has been the boogieman of the republican party. now the fwooggyman has power. she has the ga el back. >> she has the ga el back. >> what does that mean for your party? >> the reality is the president's changed. he does not have a space someone will come in the dead of the night and give him state secrets on what's going on, on the hill and where the investigations are. he does not have the wall of protection that the republican

party had given him for the past two years. >> so now he has no wall? no wall on the border? >> and a partial one at the senate. >> that is the second interesting piece from mitch mcconnell who will be on the tip of the spear with members. we seen two sort of peel off, corey gardner being one of them. about this whom effort to push policy forward. because these guys are up for re-election in 2020, do not want that pressure. so it's a new dynamic in d.c.. >> it's a new die nam nick d.c. it is also a new dynamic for mitch mcconnell. he really has styled himself with an enormously powerful senate leader who essentially vowed to shut president barack obama's entire agenda down to get him nothing. right? that was his goal, make him a one-term president. >> that didn't work out so well. while he had paul ryan in the house, running defense for donald trump, he could keep his

caucus together to protect him. yesterday in the town hall meeting with speaker pelosi, she called him out and account for the power he's given up and the weakness essentially he imposed on the senates. let's listen to a bit of that. >> i think that what mitch mcconnell is doing and i say this as respectfully as possible is saying, we're not needed, congress might as well stay home. all we need is one person to show up, donald trump. and that's not what our founders had in mind. the president can sign or not, but he should never say, i'm not even going to put it on the president's desk. >> your thoughts. >> she's right. mitch mcconnell is shrinking the senate. the praised deliberate body in the world is now apparently an adjunct to the white house. it's completely unacceptable from a constitutional standpoint and it will be unacceptable from a political standpoint as michael said.

the susan collins, tom till liss's have to show they were able to do something and shutting it down for months or years is not what they are doing. >> i want to show just for the table here. this is donald trump saying that he can just declare a national emergency, do what he wants, build a wall. he doesn't need congress. i want you to pay attention to kevin mccarthy, who is the guy behind him, the house minority leader now, while he's talking. take a look. >> no, we can use him, absolutely. we can absolutely call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely. i haven't done it. i ma i do it. i may do it. but we can call a national emergency and build it very quickly and it's another way of doing it. but if we can do it through a negotiated process, we're giving that a shot. >> first of all for the record, everyone on the panel laughed.

>> the thought bubble is let's be out of here. >> if there were curtains that he could have shrunk into, he would have gone. >> he's still standing there. i have to say i'm surprised lightning didn't strike in the rose garden yesterday with all the lies and ridiculousness that came out of the president of donald trump. it's so insane. here's the thing, the last two years we have seen, in particular, from the house of representatives, the most ineffective house of representative in history i would argue, who was paul ryan was the speaker, clearly. and we saw three shutdowns in one year and what we're about to see is the complete opposite. we have now a diverse body that is led by madam speaker nancy pelosi and they're going to go -- and they already have. they got out of the gate. they voted open a bill to reopen the government. right. then they're going to push forward ethics reform. they're going to put, you know, health care on the -- as one of

their things to do. they're going to do things that we have not seen in a long time. >> yeah. >> so that is where we are. and you know, they have a mandate. we just had an election on november 6th. this is what people want to see and donald trump, is for the first time in his personal business and short political career is going to be held accountable. something he has never seen before is being told no. >> in his whole life. >> if his whole entire life. >> you cover washington. the min sha that goes on there. you tend to get one party you tend to have a swingback. the country likes a divide government until they find the pushback. you have 9 million votes. here are the priority the democrats are putting on the table per the new speaker. tackling corruption, which is in this first op-ed that nancy pelosi co-authored with jim mcgovern saying they will change

the money and rules and stabilizing the affordable care act, immigration reform, action on climate change. infrastructure and jobs, donald trump said he wanted to to as well. also the house is already out of the gate, substituting themselves or asking the judge to allow the house to be then substituted for the trump administration in that texas lawsuit, so that they can defend the affordable care act, which the trump administration will not. >> that seems like a wise agenda. >> that sounds a lot like we heard in the 2018 election. >> it's all things people want to happen. it's sound policy, it's moving things forward. it's not focusing on grievances, how do we get trump. i do think as you said in the open it's overshadowed by the government shutdown that could go on for weeks or months. i think nancy pelosi has a much tougher road to ho than the first time around. first of all, it is a divided government. last time she had a democratic senate.

she had a lot more maneuvering room with the democratic senate. this time she has a much more diverse caucus as we discussed. we have a bunch of empowered freshman that want to follow their agenda. they will be much more aggressive than she is comfortable with. they are talking openly more about impeachment than she would like. she is ten years past where she was a speaker last time. all that legislative skill we know she deployed before, we have to see if she's ready to do it. can she dust that off and make it work in a pretty different situation with this republican senate and with a very empowered group of younger, progressive, new folks that will not do what nancy pelosi tells them to do. >> on that point about nancy, i think she already has shown that skill set because she's speaker of the house. >> she got reelected. >> last year it began not in my lifetime, we're not putting her in power. those same freshmen, including alexandria ocasio cortez saying,

no, this is not who we want standing up for nancy. i think she has demonstrated her ability to do the first important thing. that's to corral her caucus. you need that, that's her base out of the gate. >> i think in many ways the split has been a bit overplayed. >> i agree. >> a speaker unlike in the senate has really absolute control and this is a woman who, as you saw, in your interview, she is not afraid of wielding her power. >> right. >> and, yes, she will have to accommodate them. she will make small compromises. i don't see her getting whip sided by these people, i don't see them running off with the house. >> these are the people of power of twichlths alexandria ocasio cortez puts herself up as dancing. there is an expression of power that didn't exist when nancy was speaker last time. >> on that point of progressives. i spoke to nancy pelosi about those same priorities.

she is already maneuvering to make sure that those new members get a hearing on what they want. medicare for all will get a new hearing. the green new deal she talked up. she had her own twist on it. there an environmental committee out of florida. she is not saying yes to a new deal. >> climate change. she is opening up the door. look, i would not bet against nancy pelosi. >> a lot of people have gone broke. >> her daughter said that recently, six months ago, people would over in have thought she would be speaker. so she knows exactly what she's doing. she is strategic. she's smart. i think the last ten years she's actually learned a lot more. i think it's to her benefit to see an obstructionist government coming out of the senate, mitch mcconnell. she knows what's coming. the other part of it, too, she knows how to deal with a republican president while this republican president is out of his mind. but she knows donald trump.

and you see that. she's already spanked him. sorry for that visual out there. she's already shown that she knows how to handle donald trump. >> that's really important. >> every time she does that, the caucus rallies, gets stronger. >> yes. >> that's a big asset. >> the biggest argument for nancy pelosi as speaker is number within have you to have a great vote counter. there is no filibuster there. she needs to make sure whatever she is bringing to the floor passes. this lady, if republicans had really, if john boehner wanted speakership, he should have gone to her and overruled the tea party. he never aveiled himself of the opportunity. with donald trump, who is not accustomed to not having to deal head-to-head with a strong woman, a woman ceo i described her. he sees himself as a ceo. she's already gotten him to back down 'er the daily beast. donald trump went in, profanity, using, throwing f-bomb, went in

there trying to be the man. ended up having to apologize to her for the way that he was speaking. >> that immediately of course is leaked because everything he does is leaked. >> of course. >> but she already apparently he goes in and tries to say the shutdown is a strike. he tries all this stuff. she immediately spanked him. >> she did. she will continue to do so. that's the interesting dynamic between the two of them. even taking it out one level to mitch mcconnell watching this, who is probably secretly snickering going, yes, more of that. yes, please, thank you. >> you think he wants -- >> here's the reason. you know, mcconnell is at the point where his approach is, i'm not putting my neck out on the line again. i mean, they did. they got the bill. you know, it passed unanimously and virtually unanimously in the senate. the vice president comes up. we're all on the same page and who kills it? the president. mcconnell doesn't want that embarrassment. just like in the house.

have you the hats that rule. we don't want to put on anything we know won't pass. the same works in the senate. the senate president, mcconnell majority leader does not want to put this bill on the table unless he knows. >> right. >> -- the president at least will be behind it. the vice president today, they're having a meeting this morning to talk about this. >> yes. >> it doesn't matter. >> yes. >> unless you know you have the president's point so nancy pelosi is prepared to double slap every time he does that and mcconnell is sitting there, secretly thinking, more of that, because it then forces him to realize mcconnell is not going to -- >> it's not going to save him. >> it's interesting. matt bevin, he's up, i believe congress is up. >> and unpopular. >> unpopular. >> kentucky politics saying if i look like a loser, it's almost like he's choosing to look weak rather than to look like a loser, one of the two. >> i think if this carries on a

white this shutdown, people are not working and the debris is piling up in national parks. >> remember, they are not showing up. >> terrifying. the tsa is not showing up. over time, people will get really tired of this. it will come back on nancy pelosi, not to bail trump out but to somehow use her legislative magic to get out of this situation while giving democrats a win. >> is it easy to get out of this situation, you, donald trump, will back down? i think that the common framing is democrats find a compromise. the other option is trump backs down. >> yeah, i think from nancy's perspective and i think appropriately so, as much as it frustrates me to say it. i think she has always cards here. she has no incentive to give the president what he wants. >> the wall shutdown. looking double down on that yesterday. >> he owns this. he told us he owns this. >> he is in charge of the house where impeachment happens. i would not be surprised if donald trump backs down. she doesn't have to give him

anything. >> except to find out how to do it. she will help him. >> we will be back. beth and michael will join us again in our next hour. coming up, conservative cluchg is on 10 because refreshman congresswoman and for once it's not the usual obsession aoc. that's next.

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grandmother who said it like it is and that's a part of who i am. but i tell you, i'm unwavering and everyone knows that, from taking on huge big bullies right back at home in the district. i'm not going to back down from this biggest bully that now i have to take on. >> he called you disgraceful, your comments disgraceful. >> yeah, he needs to put a mirror up. >> just hours after being sworn in, michigan congressman rashida tlaib dropped the f-bomb promising to impeach donald trump after two years finding nothing wrong of the offensive and shameful comments trump has made, it should cause no surprise over her expletive. >> it's offensive, unfortunate to use that language. i think she went very far in what she said. >> it's what's on the minds of democrats, they're name calling.

>> speaker pelosi isn't going to say nothing about her freshman, economy congresswoman tlaib inside her move on meeting. i know she wanted to double down, is this the behavior we will find with this new majority party here in the congress? >> back with meet, me, jennifer reuben and tiffany cross editor of "the beat d.c. "happy new year. let's talk about this. i did ask speaker pelosi about this it was the thing everybody was talking about. i thought her response to it was very interesting. take a listen to a bit of it. >> words have -- weigh a ton and the president has to realize his words weigh a ton, too. some of the words he use have a direct impact on people's lives. my colleagues comments do not have an impact on people's lives. if she were a man, would they be

making a fuss? >> so, tiffany, i thought as caucus management, it was interesting she was not willing to slam her clear, one of her freshmen. also, i thought it was an interesting turn around on what everyone else was doing. joe man. in and they were hand winging, but nancy pelosi said, a, i'm not in the sencensorship. what he says is policy. >> i think voters love authenticity. rashida tlaib said i am unapologetically me. i applaud her for that. the thing, i don't know anybody who was so shocked and offend by this language she said mf. i'm concerned i may say it one year. but i think that was a little ridiculous. i think you have to look at,

there are members of congress who have done amazingly offensive things. peter king was on fox news and dismissed the deaths of two migrant children. he could have said mf 18 times, i wouldn't find it as offensive as the pro-life congressman dismissing the death of migrant children. steve king, the innumber rabble things he said about black and brown people. people are willingly electing these people. from your neck of the woods, who has embarrassed himself on this show, she hosting the fox news show. can you imagine, alexandria ocasio cortez, rashida tlaib being her authentic self calling out the bs should be applauded. who cares about her language. impeachment conversation is one to be had and what that means and what comes next. i don't care about this language at all.

>> what's so funny is they're all in a tizzy about what happened preceding it. who one is talking about the fact she is vowing to obsess trump. they're so obsessed on the first part, gosh, these freshmen want to impeach the president. it makes a huge difference in the composition of these parties. seeing all these white men finger wag this gal looks so bad for the republicans. just like on that first day of the congress when you see these grey men in grey suits, white faces and this burst of color both on their skin and in their dress on this i thinking a dpra rate iss that. so it's not a good look on actually for the republicans to be out there, you know -- also in our last segment. you said the president used exactly the same language. >> literally. yesterday. >> her comments were actually not in public. they were at a private gathering. now, should people always business aware that someone is

taping? absolutely. but she didn't go out on the steps. she didn't call a rally and use that language the way trump has done. >> it's interesting, move on.org. but the thing, i think that's important to know. move on is an activist organization. it's a progressive activist organization. that's where she said it. you know the president of the united states was dropping f-bombs in front of the speaker of the house. >> that's exactly right. >> cursing against senior lawmakers in a setting about his mind national security. so it's, the republican versus said nothing about that. >> right. and they're not. they're using this as a distraction, as a talking point. so they can point the fingers at the democrats and progressives. that's what they're doing. here's the thing, she didn't say it behind the white house podium the presidential podium. we have mr. grab him by the p, nfl players are sobs. i was on at that rally when he said that word and said sob.

i'm using the letters. this is also a man. >> there are compilations all over. >> he said african nations are s-hole countries. these are policies that he's talking about. she is just making a comment in a very excited, you know, she got sworn in, the new congress got sworn in and the president has, it is much more impactful like speakers pelosi said, he said. >> my policy to speaker pelosi on it was whether or not say it out loud. we have congresswoman maxine waters on this show, she says openly she wants to see donald trump impeached. it's not as if there is a new idea. there are people in the caucus there a while and people there think he should be impeached. people are not interrogating that point. so let's listen to rashida tlaib expanding on the point. she talked about the actual substance of what she said, which is impeachment. take a listen. >> i think people don't

understand it goes way beyond what the mueller investigation is trying to attempt to do now and creating some sort of process to look into obstruction of justice, but you know the president of the united states is pretty his tore tobacco see that someone like himself has not with all his shady business deals across the country in the world, that he hasn't divested in his countrimpanies. i believe the president fully needs to no through the impeachment process. >> these freshmen have been paying attention. they didn't just get there. they know what he has been dealing with the last two years. >> right. this is a problem. there are 17 different investigations in various aspects of this administration. so on the point that he has done many things that are impeachable, i would certainly agree. nancy pelosi is in a somewhat difficult position. i think she is handling it correctly to say we're going through the process. we're going to see the fact and then the law. >> that won't work after we get

the mueller investigation. at least it won't work entirely. at some point, they're going to have to decide what to do with it. now, if the government is still shut down, you may have republicans climbing on board taat that point. at least at this point, most americans don't think he hasn't done something that is grounds for impeachment. proceeding is a different question. whether you do it, remove him? has he done things, of course. >> i think the other thing is the politics of it. what the leadership is for it to appear they have baked an impeachment train running down the track the way it was with bill clinton. so that's their only concern. if you publicly say you are doing it, it doesn't sound like a process. >> al green was the first person, congressman al green from texas was introducing the article of impeachment in the house. he and nancy pelosi got into a scuffle saying that's not the

route we want to take at this point. i think what democrats have to consider going into an election year over 80% of their base wants them to pursue impeachment. i think there may be a bit of a gap about the impeachment process. the senate is not going to vote to impeach this president. there is somewhat of a could bookie thee -- kabooki theater. at the same time, it's hard not to perceive those things. >> the in fact that the senate could u would never, it's not he would be removed you have to deal with mike pence, the senate would never. it's a republican senate. just doing the hearings, we'd get a lot out. we will all be back in our next hour. up next, spy flop. russia edition. that's next. customize my insurance

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. we covered a lot of ground with speaker pelosi. to see our full conversation tune in tomorrow at 9:00 eastern. up next, a former marine

accused of spying in russia. the case is getting weirder by the day. e case is getting weirdy the day. (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper.

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. i do think that maybe this is something that mr. putin has concocted as a way to protect but also for him to work with his buddy donald trump and to have some release of mr. wheelan that donald trump will get credit for. it's interesting how this whole thing has come about. >> the ongoing saga between the

u.s. putin and paul wheelan. russia is accusing wheelan of spying, a claim his family denies, one of the many curious things about the wheelan arrest, the time, two weeks after the russian national pleaded guilty in washington to conspire to act as a foreign agent. among the many questions swirling around the arrest is whether it could be vladimir putin retaliating for the prosecution or maybe grabbing an american to use in a potential prisoner swap, which wheelan's russian lawyers seemed to hint at in an interview with the daily beast saying his stated goal is to rather tharrange a t bring home one russia soul. the prime minister is down playing a prisoner exchange. joining me a staff writer at the atlantic and malcolm nance, msnbc contributor and author of

the plot to dry democracy. we will start with you. everything about the wheelan plot is odd. he. has only interesting history. this former marine was found to have, when he was deployed to iraq bouncing nearly $6,000 worth of checks and also attempting to steal more than $10,000 worth of currency from the u.s. government, which is why he is no longer in the marines, apparently. and then we find out from the "new york times," that's washington post reporting, the "new york times" then reports, quote, some former american officials say by detaining a citizen of multiple countries, russia may have miscalculated, with a larger part of the community and moscow is most susceptible to. what they mean is this american has british citizenship and irish citizenship and also a canadian passport. apparently, he was born in

canada. i am dying to know if you made up all this. >> this is fascinating. this is the worst jason bourne movie ever. i mean, racking up all the passports and everything. i actually ran a school for tier 1 special operations personnel who ran the risk of being detained by a foreign hostile government. this detention is actually called hostile government detention. it's when a foreign government abducts or detains a u.s. citizen for the purpose of getting geopolitical leverage against another government. there is usually made-up charges. they will come out and manufacture a history around you, some innocuous thing you did, they will turn into espionage for the soul purpose of getting another person released. i am thoroughly convinced this was done to get maria butina. >> that said, this character paul wheelan, he is the last guy that anyone in the intelligence

committee would use for intelligence collection. i think there is something strange about him. he had ten years of being on v contact, which is the russia's version of facebook, monitored by the ssb, making relationships with young russian men. i think the russians may have set him up. it could have been a false flag operation, where he thought he was working for the israelis or the pols, they put him in a situation they could easily roll him up. they will get him to confess to this. that's the objective of hostile detenti detention. >> if this gentleman mr. wheelan had this history of the service having found him to have committed offenses against the u.s. code of military justice, he's on this russian chat you know service, so they presumably know something about him. you don't think there is any possibly that they did turn to him and say you are now going to check intelligence for us, you know, x, y, and z. you don't think he's a spy?

>> that's a possibility he could have been recruited as an asset. he turned out to be this russia file, there is nothing wrong with being a russia file. i studied russian. it was the way that he was making these relationships. i personally thought this was going to involve a woman honey trap. it turns out it may be men honey traps, he was forming all these private relationships with these people in the russian army. then the whole developing all of these passports, him getting these u.s. corporate jobs as a disgraced explain, kicked, drummond out of the military, it's possible he was also recruited by the russians but a good case officer would have made it appear that it wasn't russia that was recruiting him but someone else in order to either entrap him or use him when he was disposable. >> yeah. elliot, what about this idea of the russian government maybe wanting to swap him for maria

butina? would that potentially ever happen? >> here's the thing, butina pled guilty. we have evidence of what she's done and admitted to do. the evidence is much thinner to him having any espionage ties ever. it's interesting and it shows the sophistication of the russians in picking on sort of people who would be sympathetic. they found this guy who made pro trump comments, sort of, getting back to our election meddling. >> do you think that could be to make him more enticing to the trump administration to want him back? >> again it's no accident why they picked this guy, this particular guy who might be atracked. for a veteran, to bounce checks. >> somebody that might trigger donald trump's desire to get friendly. i guess, natasha. then you have another arrest. now, russia is saying that the fbi has arrested a russian citizen on pacific island who

was taken to florida the ministry said the russian embassy in washington is seeking access to this gentleman makarenko. if administration is demanding information. it keeps getting weirder. >> i think the russians are covering their bases by snatching up an american in russia who is a veteran and may be sympathetic to the trumped a men strikes, et cetera. so i think we should be careful about concluding maria butina is the prize here. she has already begun cooperating and presumably provided a lot of information already about the russian activities in the united states. i do think there is a desire to get her back before she has the opportunity perhaps to testify against certain, in certain cases in the future. so there may be kind of a time crunch on that end. but there are a lot of russian citizens who have been arrested by the fbi that we don't even know about. a lot of people detained by the

u.s. that maybe russia is desperate to get back. so i think that's certainly a consideration here. whether or not, you know, he actually is a spy, that is something that i think we need to be careful about, because there is so much not known about him and he is an interesting figure to say the least. so i think we need to wait to see how this plays out. if a trade were made of butina that would be completely outrageous. she has already pled guilty. she admitted she was trying to influence the election and the trump administration policy. so she was acting as a foreign agent. whether or not he was the details are just very, very slim right now. you know the russian outlet reported he was found with a flash drive. okay. who gave testimony flash drive? did he know what was on it? is that credible? so many rumors and disinformation out there. >> elliot, that doesn't make it sound less attractive for the

trump administration. it doesn't sound like it would disincentivize the swap. >> they made it clear they want to undermine the mueller probe and made clear they are willing to play footsie with russia. perhaps we can talk about it today this afghanistan stuff. >> that is incredibly weird. i don't know that we have time. because i want to go -- i think that may be a whole another time on itself. go ahead, malcolm. >> one thing i will made a solid prediction on is what's going to happen between him and the russians. this form of detention is designed to get that individual to confess. he has already had counsellor access by meeting with the u.s. ambassador. now he will meet with a myriad of other ambassadors who will say you have a right to keep your mouth shut. he will get worked over by the single best interrogator. this is an accident. you should just common fess to this or fill out this form, it will be a full confession in

russian and they will produce gear that he's never seen before and then they will convict him as a spy because confession is equal to conviction over there. >> what is the trump administration stand for this guy? there hasn't been a lot of chatter. >> there has been nothing. secretary of state mike pompeo came out and said, look, if he is innocent, if he is found to be acting inappropriately in russia, we will take it from there. it's been a very muted response. the russian, the u.s. ambassador to russia john huntsman visited paul wheelan which is kind of bizarre in and of itself. it's not usual for a high level official to make these kind of visits in part because of the government shutdown, it's been a very bizarre response. >> thank you all very much. coming up, the moral reasoning of mueller-mitt

romney.

i think it's a good idea to lay out how you're intending to work in washington as you begin. some people said you should have waited a call months, four months. i'm not sure what makes it special at one time versus another other than to do your best from the beginning to

describe what's important to you and go to work. >> utah's junior senator certainly did lay out how he intends to work in washington. just one day after writing a biting critique of donald trump's character and promising to speak out against racist, sexist, anti-immigrant, and dishonest rhetoric, mitt romney pledged to support for trump's border wall because of course he did. another sign that establishment republicans who have a problem with donald trump are really only offended by his lack of manners when he does exactly what they want him to do. joining me now is bishop william barber, co-chairman of the poor people's campaign and author of "revive us again." bishop, wonderful to see you as always. and this op-ed that donald trump -- that mitt romney wrote criticizing donald trump, you pointed out that it was really about manners. it was about trump's morality. it was about trump's words, but that he had little to say about

what donald trump negatively. expound on that a bit. >> the problem with what romney is saying is saying i disagree with the moral way trump is saying things. and if you look at the scriptures, look at the prophets, they weren't -- they didn't criticize people based on what they said. they criticized them based on what they did. jesus talked about preaching good news to the poorment he said, woe unto those religious and political leaders who leave undone the weighty matters of the law, justice, mercy, faithfully, and love. isiah said woe up to those who legislate evil and rob the poor of their rights. romney in essence is saying if he was just nie nicer with his s i'm still in agreement with his policies. that's dangerous because there were nice slaveholders with their words, nice segregationists, nice women that

held women during the days that women didn't have the right to vote. dr. king got a nice letter when he was in the birmingham jail. people said if you would just be nice and wait. he said i'm not talking about that, i'm talking about policies. it's concerning. trump is engaged in mother-child killing policy, killing immigration policies. romney is engaged in mother-child-family kill willing, the health care denier. that's policies. and so you can be nice all you want. we don't just need a kinder, gentler meanness. we need the symbols policies to. to say i disagree with the word but agree with the immoral wall and immigration policy, it's void of any power, it's afamian. i would rather have trump be honest about where he was on policy than for somebody to smile and say -- be nice but

still agree with the negative policies. >> you know, it's interesting because, right, you know, mitt romney came out in favor of this wall, border wall. he's in favor of the tax cuts for the super rich and he is, of course, super rich, so you benefited from them himself. i think beyond him, i wonder what you make of republicans offended by trump. but donald trump is doing what almost any republican would do particularly when it comes to taxation and deregulation of industries, he is no different that from any republican in that sense and you don't hear that. >> almost like just don't pull off the covers, just don't show it publicly. use the cute tlaereactor that i normally used -- rhetoric that is normally used. say these are conservative when they are extremist values. morally we should criticize both. no political party should have cover by moral critique. we try do that in our movement.

the reality is we have to look at the policies. now it's ugly the way he talks. different, though, when donald trump talks he's talking about policies. your other guest said that. his talk translates into public policy. and that's why we cannot make the mistake in this moment of just focusing on trump and saying he's the problem. he's enabled by a whole lot of people who will -- are basically saying, look, calm down what you're saying, we can still get these same things done. we can still pass tax cuts that hurt the poor, and there are over 140 million poor and low-wage people in this quarter and over a quarter million die every year according to one study from poverty. they're saying just be quiet, don't talk like this. we can still take the health care from 37 million people. the american people must understand it is deeper than the words. you can -- jesus said, you know,

you say certain things with your mouth, but your heart is far from me. that's what we're seeing with romney and many others. we have to be clear, policy, policy, policy, policy. that's what we must critique. that's what we must see. that's what we must challenge with our words, our votes, our actions, and our protests. >> thank you very much. you and your family are always in our prayers. we know that you're dealing with tough things in the family now. we are always happy to see you, and you'll number our prayers, sir. thank you. >> thank you. thank you. i came on because my brother would have me to be here this morning. he passed on thursday. and so thank you all for your much love. god bless you. >> thank you. thank you very much. more after the break. ou thank you very much. more after the break ad to have a cigarette. had to. but then, we were like. what are we doing? the nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how.

the democratic party really is powered by women and people of color, young voters. >> yes. >> does it need to be a woman or person of color on the 2020 ticket? >> i certainly hope so. i certainly hope so. young women will say it's nice that you're speaker, but we're going to be president of the united states. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "a.m. joy." on friday, speaker pelosi swore in a record number of women in the house after winning the entirely expected vote that made her speaker for the second time. here's what happened when one particular newly minted house member voted for the speaker. >> ohallerin, pelosi, ocasio-cortez, pelosi.

>> it was hard to hear a little there, but that was republicans booing alexandria ocasio-cortez. congresswoman from new york, after she voted for pelosi for speaker. that was not all. some members of the right spent this week trying to shame the congresswoman for dancing. true story. when she was a college student rocking out to a tune from the '80s classic "the breakfast club." what, young women shouldn't dance? it their weird thing that happens when women step forward to vie for power, to assume power, is a thing most women immediately recognize. it's not just this weird right-wing obsession with ocasio-cortez. yesterday the top take that took over the political universe was anothercongressman, rasheeda tlaib, using an expletive when referring to trump. but the media world reacts to powerful women including the 40-year freak-out over hillary clinton than reactions to

elizabeth warren. her announcement triggered handwringing with quote/unquote likability. joining me, move on.org representative, senior political editor, and tiffany cross of the beat d.c. i'm going to go across the table. this is a weird thing that's going on now. it happens kind of every time a woman does anything. but especially in politics. i'll start here with you, tiffany. woman makes an announcement she wants power. suddenly, her poll numbers drop, she's no longer popular, and she's got a question about is she likeable. >> right. right. there's a question, does the next candidate have to run against hillary clinton before they run against everybody else. >> apparently according to politico. apparently. >> i think this is a dangerous area where the media sometimes drives this. if three people tweet something ridiculous, oh, is she likeable which is really -- twitter's a fake universe in that sense. don't come after me, twitter. >> twitter is real. >> i was on the house floor the

day of the swearing-in. when you looked at both sides of the chamber, the difference was stark. it was a ridiculous contrast. there were so many women, women of color, people of color on the democratic side. really did look like this party of old, angry white men on the other side. >> booing a 29-year-old woman of color. >> exactly. and ed rollins referred to her as a little girl. this adult woman who was able to achieve this great -- great feat. he referred to her as a little gi girl. i think their party is not consistent with where the rising majority of the country is going. i think that is fearful for a lot of people. that's how they incite this lowest common denominator of the country who gets scared bike, particularly women of -- scared by women, particularly women of color. i got in trouble on this show when i said my picks for presidential run were oprah and michelle obama. i think it's interesting that the people who won by double digits were women of color. will be interesting to see how they navigate that. >> and a, they're making

alexandria ocasio-cortez a celebrity. >> yeah. >> people who have never heard of her now have -- >> she's from one district in the bronx. suddenly she's a huge star because they're weirdly obsessed with her. on the other side, what's elizabeth warren. i think she's undervalued in the political calculus. the assumption is that somehow she's the new hillary clinton. she's the opposite in every ideological sense from hillary clinton. i'm not sure how that is. suddenly it's that she's not likeable. i don't even understand that. i hear it from women, too, and democratic women. >> absolutely. it's an evident form of bigotry to see one white middle-class woman is somehow every white middle-class woman. >> yes. >> one black, oh, you must be just like so because you're both black. >> right. >> or you're both hispanic, you're both middle aged. >> yeah. >> it's a ridiculous principle. i do agree with tiffany. i think this is so media driven in an incredibly irresponsible way. >> yeah.

>> no one out there in iowa is saying, gosh, she's unlikable. it's a bunch of people, you know, mostly men, but some women writing. i wonder if she's unlikable. we had this with hillary. then it begins, and then they fall into a pattern. then because it's everywhere, editors and producers feel compelled to do the is she likeable kind of routine. >> right. >> the only good news i think is that there are going to be so many candidates, that it's going to be hard -- >> to focus on one person -- >> particularly on something that's a nonissue for that candidate. listen, if she drops to 2% in the polls, that's a story. right now she is, you know, one of the biggest names right now. >> can we play -- these people don't think she's unlikeliablun. and this is video from earlier, elizabeth warren talking to supporters. this is actually live. she's taking questions. let's listen a little bit. >> and it gives us real money to invest in our rural hospitals,

in making sure that we have health care available for everyone. you just pull back a piece of it, and we can make those changes. i think that's the way we have to talk about this. this isn't some fancy far-off idealogy. and i know people say taxes -- a lot of people glaze over, oh, lord, please, no on, taxes. no. this is the document that's about our values. it says as a country -- >> so let's come back for a second. i have to say that the first question she was asked -- i was told by my executive producer in my ear, was about pocahontas. >> wow. >> at her town hall. this is the mem-i hiememe-ing o, donald trump meme'd and this is the first question at her event. >> not surprising. can i say this, paul ryan, his favorability, he was polled i think 12% points after -- >> on a good day. >> that was a good day after

ending his speakership. let me tell you, lice is polled less than -- head lice is more popular, right. he polls less than head lice, sires seriously, okay why aren't we ask figure he's likeable. paul lice polls better than paul ryan. >> our political reporter. we'll throw this to you. we're in this business, right, and there is a -- there is a meme with political journalists, hillary was emails. everyone felt compelled to weigh in and have a bite and get a take in some way. with elizabeth warren, it's the dna situation which is -- honestly not an important thing. >> right. >> let's be honest. it's not important. but it's a thing, right. now whole idea of her being likeable. she's more mom-ly. i'm not sure where that came from. >> she's a dynamic speaker. that's a contrast with her and hillary clinton. she was much more dynamic than hillary clinton. when she would campaign for hillary clinton, you could feel the different energy.

>> correct. >> i've got to take a different tax and say that i see on twitter and see a lot of us talking about why is everybody talking about so and so candidate's personality? why can't we talk about their issue positions and where they want to lead the country? that's naive. i mean, a political candidate quickly went for president, it's not just a collection of his or her policy decisions. they're a fully flushed out three-dimensional policy decision. and it includes personality that comes out through media, television, social media. men get nailed with the unlikable -- >> al gore -- >> most notably. back to michael dukakis, same thing. people who are intellectuals, smart, great in terms of articulating policy but look wooden and not someone you want to spend time around. >> mitt romney. >> mitt romney. none of them got elected president. so i'm simply saying that, yes, women are certainly targeted more than men are. i think women of a certain age are -- more targeted. we'll see when kamala harris

gets into this presidential race, when gist kristen gillibrand, the up-and-comers. whether you're a woman or man, it's the fully flushed out candidate that will ultimately win and not just a list of policies. >> and i have to come to you on this. but work for the human who probably sort of defined dynamic policy married to policy people alike, barack obama. he had the x factor. >> he was like a unicorn. >> you could say ronald reagan had it. you have to have a thing. you can't just have great cause. you have to have a thing. is there someone out there now that has that thing? and in our culture, can that person be a woman? >> i think it absolutely -- absolutely that person can be a woman. but i think is our country -- our country's going to be tested again. we're going to be tested for another time to say, okay, are you guys really ready to elect a woman. and we're going to see if we fail or pass that test. you're right, there is an x factor that needs to be there. i agree with you, elizabeth

warren is -- she's a dynamic speaker. the things she talks about, and she's authentic. >> yes. >> the thing she talks about, she's been talking about it for years. right, the middle class, the working class. she's been fighting against the big banks. and i think she is undervalued. a lot of it is because she is the first one out. we talked about castro actually announcing his exploratory committee. she is one of the big i guess five that have come out. that's another reason why she's getting all the shade. >> yeah. >> can we talk mean culture for a moment? the other thing that you're seeing, and this goes back to alexandria ocasio-cortez who now apparently is the -- she's the instagram congresswoman, right. now anyone else who goes on instagram, elizabeth warren, accused of being inauthentic because they went on instagram. we're all on instagram, by the way. people go on instagram. it's a thing. she exemplifies in my opinion the next generation that millennial women have figured out about the way to make politics accessible. barack obama did that really well, too. >> right. >> does the person who gets the nomination have to be able to do

that thing? then that changes the dynamic who've's in the top five. -- of who's in the top five. >> agree. you have to meet voters where they are. we get paid to consume the musha of politics. not everyone does that. when i look at the twitter timeline, facebook that is apparently spying on me, you know, all my social media, there's a lot of interesting things happening that we don't know about because we're consumed by politics. people criticize barack obama for participating in espn events and things. for some voters, that was the only space where they saw you. i think you do have to do that. i think the people who are criticizing elizabeth warren for instagram, they're not -- these are the people who ask the ceo of google about problems with their iphone. they don't care about social media. this is why they're saying that. i want to make the point that elizabeth warren, the pocahontas thing is ridiculous. she cares very much about diversity. that's the bigger point we should be talking about. >> she's been pursuing african-american voters -- >> yes -- >> it's very interesting.

do we think she's less likeable than bernie sanders? imagine bernie sanders as a woman. >> similar issue profile. >> yes, this guy, bad white hair, glasses, screaming at people. >> people said that's charming. >> oh, wow. a grandpa. he's like this, you know, icon. women don't get to be that icon that, you know, different kind of person. i think part of it is that it's directed really at her message that she's telling them things they don't want to hear. some of it bernie sanders, some of it beyond. >> yeah. >> yes. >> also because i think frankly because she is very, very smart. >> yeah. >> this is how men and this is how even some other women degrade other women, by not talking about their intelligence, by talking about their voice, their clothes, their ethnicity, whatever, their hair. >> yeah. >> do you remember the obsession with hillary clinton's hair? >> yes. she changed it every month when she was first lady. >> she was reacting to it. >> yeah.

>> the best thing she can do is never answer a pocahontas question -- >> ever again. ever. let it go. she shouldn't have brought it up. let it go. >> just go on. >> let the meme die. >> i want to go back to what elizabeth warren has been doing with the black constituency of the party. she's been weaving in when she talks about her inequality, the economy, she talks about people of color. she talks about black people. and that's really important because that is one of the most important constituencies -- >> yes. >> i think it's been -- been incredibly smart. and it's one of the reasons why she gets hit because she talks the truth. >> this was a point brought up that i did want to bring up that i want to bring up with you, beth. i wonder if, too, the political media in a sense also i think undervalues and discounts people who have a contrary view on the economy. meaning she is very anti-banks, not anti-banks, but very much about holding this particular part of the economy to account. >> right. >> that's not necessarily

popular with the mainstream at all, right? it's more threatening than saying whatever message beto has, that's not threatening. it's threatening in a fundamental sense to a big pillar of our economy if she's saying people who are very rich pollute accurates, i am -- politocrats, i am coming for you. >> that message can unite people across the parties. it's something that elizabeth warren's been talking about for years. trump sort of started to ape it a little when he ran for president. of course he twisted it to focusing on immigrants and other boogiemen. >> that's when he started. he started -- >> it started because people could perceive that the reaction that everyone was tired of sort of banks, big business, controlling our politics, controlling the -- the levers of government in a way that seemed to have taken it out of the hands of the people. and elizabeth warren was on to that many, many years before a certain donald trump, you know, wandered on to the scene and intuded that that was the way to

go. he took it the more conservative dark route. she's been talking about issues that hit at the heart of counter's frustration with the way -- country's frustration with the way things have been going for 50 years. >> and ironically, when donald trump said he was going to go after the hedge funds, that was popular with people on the left. he had an opportunity for crossover there. then he came in and went, by the way, all the politocrats are going to be -- >> the paul ryan -- >> then they liked him. republicans liked him. >> they tolerated him. they tolerated him -- >> i think they like him. he's doing what the very wealthy want done. and so the -- >> but you know, that's been completely rejected by voters. completely. >> i think it is interesting that donald trump was unpopular with republicans when he was talking about going after hedge funds. now that he is surrounded by the hedge funds, they like him. i mean, the establishment republicans. he's okay with us as long as he's more polite. jennifer is going to be back.

great discussion. thank you, ladies. we love the all-lady panels. coming up, when it comes to trump shutdown, mitch mcconnell is -- my producers wrote, hiding in his shell. (pirate girl) ahoy!!!!! gotcha! (girl) nooooooooooooo! (man) nooooo! (vo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker, and is two times more absorbent. bounty, the quicker picker upper. the question isn't whether he should be impeached any more. he's the most corrupt president in american history. and we all know it. the question now is, how fast can we move past this president so we can build a more just and prosperous future? please, join the more than 6.5 million americans who are demanding action now.

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what mitch mcconnell is doing and i say this as respectfully as possible is saying we're not needed. congress might as well stay home. all we cathedral is one, one person to show up.

donald trump. and that's not what our founders had in mind. the president can sign or not, but he should never say i'm not even going to put it on the president's desk. take yes for an answer, don't say congress is irrelevant. >> mitch mcconnell is not even giving donald trump a chance to veto legislation the house passed to reopen the government. virtually the same legislation the senate already unanimously agreed on a few weeks ago. at least two republican senators, cory gardener and susan -- cory gaard north american and susan collins, are calling for it even if trump doesn't get the wall. the senators are up for re-election next year and not reliable on the whole breaking with the president thing. back with me, jennifer ruben. and we're joined by michael steele, analyst and former chairman of the rnc. mr. chairman -- >> yeah. >> we talked a little bit in the last hour about mitch mcconnell.

but what does it do to his bargaining position if two of his members, even though they are vulnerable, probably have to do it, are breaking with him on the shutdown as this thing drags on? >> it makes it a little bit tougher. he's got to hold those pieces together, you know, create that front for the president that, you know, we're going to do what the president wants. but he knows what his reality is. i mean, you just are talking, too, of what is a much bigger iceberg of republican senators who are on the cut for next year. and so this is just the beginning. he knows that this is going to be a slippery slope not just on the wall issue, but on other pieces of legislation that may emanate out of the house that will put republicans on the defensive, on notice, and how they then go forward is going to be his real challenge. again, i go back to the point, the weakest link for mitch mcconnell is not the senators. it's the president. he cannot -- he can form a firm bargaining position with the

house knowing the sort of mercurial nature of our president. >> and he apparently, jennifer, wasn't sure what shutting down the government would do. >> yes. >> according to the "washington post," the trump administration which did not anticipate a long-term shutdown recognized only this week the breadth of potential impact. apparently he didn't know what exactly would happen, the delayed tax funds, cut to food stamps, the farmers who weren't going to get subsidies in the mail. apparently they didn't know that. you wrote a piece. that is stunning two years in. you wrote a piece -- i'm sorry. i'm stunned. you wrote a piece talking about mitch mcconnell. it was quite good. i'm going to quote from it -- quote you to you. "a self-respecting senate majority previously would not declare his own impotence, nor turn over the job of legislating to the white house. mcconnell's do-nothing strategy is politically deadly for his membe members." i've been obsessing over the first article of government and you have been obsessing with me. >> yes.

it is unsustainable. when it's really unsustainable, if susan collins and cory gardner get scared enough they're going to grab two other senators, and they're going to refuse to confirm judges. they're going to refuse to start passing things that they otherwise want. >> yep. >> on the grounds we shouldn't be doing anything until we get the government reopened. >> yep. >> he has a diminishing hand did. 's getting wear -- it's getting weaker, not stronger. i say this not realize what the government is doing, this goes beyond incompetence. this is the problem that the republicans have. they are hostile toward government. they have an attitude that it doesn't matter it could be shut down, no one would care. >> yep. >> there was an ex-congressman who will go nameless at this moment, but people who were watching "hardball" know who we're talking about, who said no one cares about the shutdown. of course people if you're wait for a tax refund, if you're a farmer waiting for a subsidy check, if you're a worker, if you're dependent upon any of these multiple functions, if you are a tsa person and --

>> somebody's w.h.o. flying and about security. >> right. the notion that people don't care about government is the fundamental problem with the republican party. they don't understand particularly when you're in power, your obligation is not to attack and destroy government. it is to govern well -- >> make it work. the other thing i think that republicans -- i get the sense, and i spoke just yesterday with a very conservative republican who was as -- thought it as odd as i did that republicans are -- hill they're dying on is the idea of a border wall which, au a, there's water and desert on the southern border. it's not going -- you can't physically build a wall. just look at a map, get google earth. the other element of what you'd have to do in order to build a border wall, you have to seize private land. you want to talk about the senators, maybe we'll get the two in texas. most of the private land you'll have to seize in texas because most of the federal land you have to seize is in arizona and in california.

most of the private land is in the ruby red state of texas. donald trump because he doesn't get the memos, instead of saying we would never seize private land, we're republicans, we are conservatives, we believe in private property, here's what he said instead -- >> if we had one person that wouldn't sell us out of hundreds, just one it only takes one, then we wouldn't be able to build proper border security because we'd have the big opening that i was talking about. so what happens is some are paid up front, you make a deal up front, we're willing to do that in all cases. when they're unwilling to make a deal which also happens, then you go to court. but in the meantime, we're able to build the border security. so i think it's a fair process. eminent domain is something that has to be used. usually you would say for anything that's long like a road, like a pipeline, or like a wall or a fence. >> i always watch kevin mccarthy when that's happening. he's like, oh, my god. >> i tweeted out -- on that and

so many moments in that the three amigos standing behind the president had one thing in mind and many -- >> leaving? >> no, just look straight ahead. don't pay -- look no matter what he says, look straight ahead. >> yeah. >> even at certain points they couldn't do that because it was so ridiculous what this man was saying. >> do republicans support the notion of eminent domain -- >> no, no, no they don't. >> declaring war on -- >> yes -- >> if they don't get this. >> yes. >> by the way, just the sheer ignoran ignorance. there is something called the fifth amendment that has an eminent domain procedure. you don't go to court. you pay people. and by the way, this magic national emergency that he's going to declare in order to then go seize people's property, imagine if barack obama said h said that. this -- had said that. this would be grounds for impeachment. >> absolutely. >> let's put aside the canard that there's a national emergency here. people, put your pants on and calm down.

the fact of the matter is there is no marshal emergency. we do -- no national emergency. we do not have 3,000 known terrorists coming across the mexican border. i mean, just -- say that sentence over and over to yourselves and you realize with each word how stupid and ridiculous it is. so we've got to get out of this space, get out of -- get him out of our head when it comes to this issue. if representatives are true and let's talk about the texas representatives, they know damn well -- william herd knows the truth of border security in this country since his district has the largest part of where that wall's going to go. >> that land's going to be seized. >> that land's going to be seized. the private texas landowners as much as they might like donald trump, they're not cutting that deal with him. >> you know who's on the ballot in 2020? john cornyn. if i were a smart democrat, i would run on a platform of private property and constitutional governance because these guys have completely lost any meaning, any

attachment to what they used to call themselves, remember a constitutional conservative -- >> yeah. >> it violates every pre-accept they said they once believed in whether it's fiscal sanity, respect for private property, all of these things are completely out of whack. >> also this idea that donald trump ran as the guy who's going to, you know, be there for the little guy. his cabinet are getting $10,000 pay raises while 800,000 federal workers are worrying about being able to pay their rent and keep their homes. what we have is the spectacle of republicans, the hill they're willing to die on. that mitch mcconnell apparently is -- the hill he's willing to die on in order to defend donald trump. he is going to allow in his state, in all of these red states, rural states, they've got federal subsidies, that have got federal facilities, that have got the businesses that are striated off of federal facilities, people are going to start going bankrupt if they don't get their checks. >> they are. and the fact of that is -- look,

next week folks who would get a paycheck aren't going to get that paycheck. >> no. >> at some point -- folks, put yourselves in this position. imagine if your employer just pulled that second check every month. >> that's right. can i ask before we go, if you were still chairman of the rnc, if you were romney mcdaniel, interesting that she dropped that and attacked her uncle to but we won't go there. what would you tell mitch mcconnell to do or advise him to do? >> this is where it gets -- you have to put the political reality on the table. number one, you're exposing all the members that are going to be vulnerable next year. number two, you're making it harder for us to make the case to the point you were making, to the american people, to those middle-class blue-collar workers out there. many of whom are federal employees, by the way. i know in my state of maryland we have a significant number of federal employees. you're making that case harder for me to make. so here's some of the political

realities you need deal with. you have to put that on tape. the problem is, the head of the party is sitting at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. >> yeah. >> and as a national chairman, you don't trump that. >> ba-dump-dum. tip your waiters. jennifer, michael, you guys are a dynamic duo. coming up, "a.m. joy's" first edition of "meet the 2020 contenders." 0 contenders." with all that usaa offers why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. we're the tenney's and we're usaa members for life. call usaa to start saving on insurance today.

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i want to really quickly show you a clip of the elizabeth warren q&a that i mentioned earlier where she answered her first question in her town hall in iowa about pocahontas or about the dna situation. take a listen. >> why did you undergo the dna testing and give donald trump more fodder to be a bull? >> yeah, well -- you know, i'm glad you asked that question. i am not a person of color. i am not a citizen of a tribe. tribal citizenship is very different from ancestry. >> i have a feeling she's going to have to keep answering that question throughout the campaign because, of course, politics is kind of garbage.

coming up, a list of democrats who plan to run for president continues to grow. i will speak with one of them after the break. break. great news, liberty mutual customizes- uh uh - i deliver the news around here. ♪ sources say liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. over to you, logo. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

believe it or not, we are just over one year away from the iowa caucuses. happening on february 3rd, 2020. and the democratic field of presidential candidates will likely be one of the largest in recent history. more than 30 democrats are

reportedly mulling a bid. some having launched exploratory committees. all will have to answer two questions -- one, how do you get the nomination? if you get it, how are you going to beat donald trump? joining me, potential candidate, the governor of washington state, jay inslee. thanks for being here. >> thanks for starting this effort to beat donald trump, job number one. >> that's your job. i just talk on tv. let's go to the first issue, the first question that i had which is how are you going to get the nomination. i wanted to show you a "des moines register" poll done with media com, who would be the first choice for president would be the ask. joe biden up there at the top, beto o'rourke doing better than a lot expected at 11%. elizabeth warren at 8, kamala harris along with bernie sanders the top five. you, is isir, did not make it o the poll at all. how do you register with enough democrats for you to be able to get the nomination? >> we have a message that's based on restoring the promise

of america. a promise to fight the first existential threat to this nation's health and security. and that's climate change. we know that the energy in our party, the young people in our party, understand this threat. and that we understand that if we have someone who issues a clarion call from the white house to engage the optimism and the can-do spirit of this country, we can and will defeat climate change. and i believe that the only hope for america is to unemployment a democratic governor who will make climate change the paramount issue in this race and will pledge to the american people that they will make it the first and foremost effort to -- to enlarge and spark the creative genius of this country to defeat climate change. and i will do that. >> the challenge -- >> i'm con any dent in my ability -- confident in my ability. >> unless you rely entirely on free media doing interviews like

there -- >> thank you, joy -- >> you have to raise money. this is one interview on the weekend. how much money did you raise in the last governor's race? >> i can't remember, it's $10 million or $12 million. we just started that effort. i'm not technically a candidate at the moment. we are getting a great response. it's interesting, in the last week we were hearing across the country that people agree with my precept that to govern is to choose. and we must choose a path to economic growth that will simultaneously defeat climate change. >> okay, let me ask you -- >> we have seen this. >> let me ask you this question. in order to get the nomination, you have to at least score in one of the first four primaries, right. you have to win either iowa, new hampshire, south carolina or nevada. now you have california coming up in march. they've moved their primary forward. which of those primaries do you think you can win? >> you can compete in all of them -- >> but which one you can win. you can win in iowa? >> sure. i'll tell you the reason why. i started in politics in a

small, rural, red, agricultural yakima valley in eastern washington. i defeated a republican who was vastly better known than i was. but i understood small towns. and we need understand small towns and rural america to regain these votes in the midwest. and i was as you know chair of the democratic governors association. when we flipped five seats from red to blue and governorships. we understood the meat and potatoes efforts to talk to voters, to reconnect to those voters which frankly we didn't connect with in 2016. and this message of economic growth and clean energy jobs is a great way to do it. we're growing jobs like crazy in small town rural washington where i cut my teeth because we understand how to connect with those voters. so you bet i'm -- i'm willing to have that and eager to get into that -- that effort. >> well, just to push back on that a little bit. the small town, rural america party is called the republican

party. the democratic party as you saw in the inauguration of the most diverse house cohort in u.s. history, record number of women, record number of people of color. the democratic party is really fueled by voters of color. so our message to small town rural america doesn't sound like a message that resonates with, for instance, african-american and latino voters. how are you going to do that? >> listen, we've got a resort here in my state that i want to bring statewide -- nationwide of progressive values. i'm proud to have been the first governor to stand up against the president's muslim ban. i'm proud that i'm the governor that has the best paid family leave. i'm proud that yesterday i was the first governor i think in our nation's history to issue mass pardons to folks with marijuana convictions because of the racial injustice that people have suffered in our criminal justice system. i'm proud we've had one of the greatest raises in the minimum wage and has the transportation infrastructure that's perhaps one of the largest when they

can't build a birdhouse in washington, d.c. all of these things appeal to the base of our party and the diversity of our party. i think if you look at my record you'll see that i don't take a backseat to anyone in standing up from the first vote i cast to give moment compensation to hispanic agricultural workers. but this is not an either/or. we need to do both. and we need to decrease our losses in small communities in the midwest, that's why we picked up five democratic governors under my leadership lead human being the d.j. i'm confident in our ability. i can tell you why -- look, i can take people if my state to show you what a clean-energy economy looks like. and moses lake where we're making carbon fiber -- >> i'm going to stop you there because we don't have a ton of time. and your state is a great state. but your state is always not a terribly diverse state. again, you know, how diverse is your staff, for instance? >> well, my staff, my first chief of staff was a hispanic

woman in a hugely majority white community in eastern washington. she did a cracker jack job. my second chief of staff was an asian american woman, very talented in congress. my current chief of staff is a fellow of the jewish heritage. i have surrounded myself with diverse leaders because when you find when you have diversity that's a strength. you know why my state has been so economically successful, we have embraced diversity. we have talent from all around the world. the microsoft and the boeings have been powered by diversity, by embracing intellectual talent from around the country. and we know that we've got more work to do, and i'm going to be real happy to take that message of the power and virtue of diversity nationwide. and i am happy to stand up against the person who has fanned the flames of hatred, who fundamentally thinks of diversity as a failure rather than a strength. and that means economic growth through that power. we believe in it in washington state. i think washington, d.c., needs a big dose of it.

>> governor jay inslee. thank you very much for your time. appreciate it. good luck. >> thank you. you bet. >> all right. next up, uncle harry weighs in. uncle harry weighs in

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what has gone on the last 7 1/2 users have created donald trump. the republicans deserve this flawed man. everything he talks about immigration, going after muslims, they had a responsibility to step forward and stop that nonsense. they didn't do that. >> harry reid has never pulled his punches. two and a half years after that interviews, his voice and strategiry are sorely missed. he was profiled this week in "new york times," where he said, i think trump is without question the worst president we've ever had. we've had some bad ones, there's not even a close second to him. joining me now is john ralston, editor of reques"the nevada independent." john, i want to say -- i'm knoll

say new new, he probably ran the highest quality democratic party in the u.s. the organization got him reelected in tough periods. he's a really skilled politician. when he says that donald trump is the worst president of the units, it makes him set up and take notice. he's still involved in -- and really even more so in 2018, he was still involved. he recruited the candidate who is now a u.s. senator, jackie rosen, he helped the candidate

who is now govern ox steve sisilak. you can tell he's champing at the bit to be back there taking on donald trump. i think he thinking that chuck schumer has been too much of an accommodationist donald trump. imagine harry reid sitting in the now infamous viral video of that meeting in the oval office with nancy pelosi and think about how reid would have behaved in that meeting versus how chuck schumer behaved. reid would have tried to said trump off. that would have been some history video, joy. >> absolutely. you mentioned his thoughts on chuck schumer. he said, he has total confidence that he felt schumer was too eager to assume his job before reid was ready to leave.

you know, not only that, but i get the sense that reid's view of mcconnell would be interesting, because reid was as strong a leader of his party -- or even in standing up to the president, who he supported early -- but i can't imagine him being as supine toward president obama as mcconnell is toward trump. i can't imagine it. i think you're absolutely right. he wouldn't be able to contain himself. i do think it's got to be frustrating for reid. i think he's finally accepted, and he did a long time ago he would not be a u.s. senator. i always thought he would be the guy -- i followed him for 30-plus years -- the kind of guy who would not leave the senate until he was absolutely forced to for health reasons. that is what happened. he wants to be in the fray, hes understands politics as well as

anybody has ever done. people have criticized him, and with good reason sometimes, for the tactic he haus used sometimes. if you see praise harry reid as well, he's no different than donald trump. let mess tell you how he is dividend than donald trump. i thought reid's description of trump in the mark leibovitz piece is right. trump is oblivious to the rest of the world formed reid is the exact opposite. he operates inside that world, and unlike trump who cares about every word written or said about him, harry reid never cared. believe me, i wrote a lot of words about harry reid. he never really cared what i said, good or bad. he just keeps going. he keeps moving forward because

of hi goals, whether you like them or not. >> what he did say about trump, is that he's an interesting personal, he sid he's not immoral, hi -- he's amoral. do you believe his regrets changing the filibuster rule? >> i've thought about that a lot. he addressed that in the piece and said, i had to get those obama judges through or it would have been essential a failed presidency. it's got to be tremendously painful for harry reid to be what happened with garland, with kavanaugh, all this stuff. this may be too strong, but essential he his his fault. he doesn't spend much time on regrets. >> thank you very much, jon. have a great rest of the

weekend. >> you bet. coming up at the top of the hour, i will join alex witt to talk about my conversation with nancy pelosi, but first, more "a.m. joy" after the break. mor "a.m. joy" after the break pay off.

♪ [ dobaxter.ng ] it's bedtime. peace of mind should never be out of reach. [ voice command beep ] xfinity home. xfinity home connects you to total home security you can control from anywhere on any device. and it protects you with 24/7 professional monitoring. i guess we're sleeping here tonight. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. that is our show for today. we'll be back tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. up next alex witt has the latest. hello. >> i'm asking you to wait for like four minutes. i'm going to get to you.