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meeting, and kiersten nielsen, and mick mulvaney for a part of the time. the president is threatening to keep the government partially closed for months. and he's considering declares a national emergency. the shutdown stalemate now entering its third week with no signs that the leadership is any closer to an agreement. just the last hours again trying to blame the democrats, but hal yay jackson asked if he was still proud of shutting down the government. >> i'm very proud of doing what i'm doing. i don't calling it a shutdown. can you call it the schumer or pelosi or trump shutdown, it doesn't makes any difference to me. it's just words.

>> the real implication becoming more and more evident every day. food stamps could be reduced or tax refunds could be frozen or delayed, and thousands of federal workers may not receive their paycheck next friday. >> i'm a furloughed fema employees. between congress and the president, it doesn't seem like a very big priority to get us back to work. i love my agency and i want to work. >> stress not knowing where my next paycheck is going to be. >> if i'm not able to get paid, you certainly shoot get paid, because i do my job. you're not doing your job. >> the president sending this message to the workers. >> many of those people, maybe even most of those people, that really will not be getting their money, those people in many cases are the biggest fan of

what we're doing. he's stead fast in demanding $5 billion. democratic leaders and the president emerged from this meeting with no deal. >> we told the president he needed the government open. he resisted. in fact months or even years. >> we had a very, very productive meeting, and i think we've come a long way. >> how do you define rot in a meeting when you have how do you define progress in a meetings? >> let's go to mike viqueira. what's the latest on the

shutdown negotiations. is there any progress expected to be made at the meeting that's happening at the white house? >> reporter: it's an unusual meeting. it's asymmetric cal. we have the vice president, as well as the acting chief of staff in mick mulvaney sitting down across the table from congressional staffers. while it's true that congressional staffers often play a key role in negotiation, it's hard to believe given that everything we had heard and seen that they're going to come to any resolution, simply because the final say in all of this now is clearly president trump and president trump has been known to change his mind, to turn around on a dime, which is in fact what brought us here today after there was a deal to put forth a short-term spending bill. alex, we're talking about all the people that could be affected. the federal pay scale is known as a gs scale. in the middle is a g--10 making

50 to 60 thousand a year. after the 11 that bite comes out. that's not a lot of money and people will start falling behind on their house payments, falling behind on car payments, falling behind on their rent. that's when we're going to see this get beyond the overflowing trash cans at national parks out west and elsewhere. so the negotiations continue. it's inare unclear whether they'll bear fruit. i would guess not. the house is not scheduled to come back into session under wednesday, and as you report. 38 million penal could face reductions in their food stamps, 140 billion in tax refunds from the i.r.s., which is out of funding in and out affected by this parch government shutdown. in a story that i thought was well reported by nbc news online, immigration courts are now closed around the country,

those immigration deportations continue. so try to wrap your minds around this. immigration courts are shut down over the shutdown on immigration. >> that was an excellent story. good call there, mike. thank you. and joa big welcome to you three ladies. what do you make of this jared kushner being involved in this? what is hi role in this? >> i think it's interesting, given the fact that trump himself has had several meetings with congress leaders and has made little progress. i think one trent we tending to is we see other people speak for the president and the president changing the language around what he's asking. and we haven't seen jared kushner super-involved in this

issue yet. so we'll have to wait and see. >> jackie, what about the vice president? how much pull does he have swaying the president or congressional leaders for that matter it all of this? >> that's to be determined. the vice president had offered democrats a 2.5 billion deal, which the president was not in favor of. so again as stephanie was just saying i think the president has neutered the input of his closest and most top advisers. we had two different stories yesterday, one that the meeting wasn't productive, and the president said he thought great things could be accomplished this weekend, when in reality

very little has changed. >> what about, abigail, the impact of the shutdown. is this never to get the public involved? as mike was saying on capitol hill, this is more than just overflowing trash cans in national parks. >> absolutely. i think where we are at is we're entering a new phase of this, where the real-life implications of the shutdown on working americans is going to start to show through. one of the things we're seeing from the president is not leadership, it's pet ulens. he's been offered a deal from democrats in the house that gives him 30 days to continue debating the while while oechg the rest of the government. it would solve this government, but leave room for further negotiations on the one sticking point that he's signaled the reason for which which shutdown is taking place. >> compromise is the art to

getting anything done pretty much anywhere. >> right. >> according to "the washington post," the trump administration only recognized this week the breadth of the potential impact, but take a listen to the president from yesterday. >> reporter: have you considered using emergency powers to grant yourselves authorities to build this wall without congressional approval. >> yes, i have. >> reporter: you have? >> and i can do it if i want. >> reporter: you don't need congressional approval? >> no, we can call a national emergency because of the security of our country, absolutely. no, we can do it. i haven't done it. i may do it. i may do it, but we could call a national emergency and build it very quickly. it's another way of doing it. >> is that tough talk? will he go there? can he go there? >> this is something that trump has floated a couple times, saying maybe he'll call a national emergency in order to

get the funds needed to build this wall. it's uncertain whether he can do this legally. there could be a way for him to call a national emergency and use funds that are not specifically allocated until the department of defense, that could be a possibility, but this would likely face legal challenges. the president has made clear he would rather this get worked out in congress, but we never know. we know the president is not afraid of testing the waters when it comes to using the executive powers. they're the only ones that need to be involved to reach an agreement. are the rest satisfied with the handling of mcconnell? >> i think at this point, i think leader mcconnell is equally frustrated with the president. i know we reported that he expressed frustration on other allies this week after he put

forward a deal that the president then rejected, and then you saw cracks in the caucus starting to appear. you had, cory gardner and susan collins both come out and say, let's fund parts of the government that we all agree on and put the border dispute aside so we can be productive and we can do our jobs, and make sure the potentially 38 million people going without food stamps come february, and the billions in refunds that people need in order to, you know, stay fiscally afloat in their normally lives can proceed. you. >> do you see a pat for path for compromise anyway? might a compromise on daca and some funding may be the way to get this solved? >> daca is something that's been mentioned a lot of one thing i have been hearing is that deal

was already on the table previously, where they were going to do this overhaul of immigration in order to get protections for dreamers, but one of the things is donald trump again reneged on what he said he would sign and agree to. so i think there's a hesitation to kind of go back down that same path and make the same mistakes they have seen from those negotiations, and then negotiations that ultimately led to the shutdown. i think youly what we will likely see is some sort of scenario wherein the president is able to claim a victory, have a face-saving moment, but i think right now it doesn't look good that this is going to be over anytime soon. abigail, steph, jackie, ladies, thank you so much. agreeing with the president, a leading democrat may see eye to eye with trump on a major issue, but what about his response to being cursed oy by a congresswok tl ais-- woman?

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this is national security we're talking about. we're not talking about games. >> this is not a wall between mexico and the united states that the president is creating here. it's a wall between reality and his constituents. >> president trump and house speaker nancy pelosi disagrees on what the border wall is actually about, as the partial

government shutdown drags on. joining me now representative barbara lee. >> without congressional approval, first of all, is that allowed by the constitutional, or might he fail lease restrictions on that? >> let me say first of all, it's downright outrageous. what this position is doing is totally ridiculous. first of all, what he's trying to so is mitt tarrize and split kites a humanitarian crisis. declaring a state of emergency at a border when in fact people -- children are being separated from their parents? this is a humanitarian disaster. he can't do this. he would have to come to congress and present plans through a variety of commit aye.

so once again, in his own way he is trying to play to his base and trying to stir fears and really just trying to lift up to his -- and congress, at least i know -- >> these outrageous. >> would you support the -- some sort of a compromise amount? is that realistic? >> as far as what's realistic is this -- we have passed a bill which the senate passed that was great to with republicans and democrats supporting reopening the government and the agents that were shut down.

we also agreed to open up the homeland security and fund it through, i believe it's february 8th, to begin to talk about and debate all of this is issues. i believe you have heard -- [ inaudible ] -- >> hmm, a bit of a hiccup in the live remote to oakland. we do have her back. let's try this again. barbara lee, go ahead and continue. >> okay. to open up the government until september 30th, and to open up homeland security and fund it through february 8th so in fact all of these issues broadband discussed and debated.

after all the republicans voted for it. people are suffering, they need their paychecks, and this president needs to open up the government. and we've giving them a vehicle to do that. >> do you have any concerns that you may overplay your hand, dig in a bit too much? >> remember, he has no sense i believe of the -- 800,000, we've already said we were willing to provide 1.3 billion and what border secure means alex,

there's a small cafe in my district, across from the federal building. they're down 60% in terms of revenue because of shutdown. let's talk about something we can aplaut. >> how do you expect that diversity to translate into legislative actions. sure, that's extremely important. thank you very much, because so many voices can be heard, but

also young women. they have unine experiences, all of these experiences help strengthen again, speaker pelosi indicated in the past, what's good for women, women of color, it's good for the country, it's good for the world. we have new perspectives, new ideas. one of the issues i continue to fight for is look at the ways to elimina eliminate poverty. i think you will see new progressive legislation that will be worked on with all members in terms of unifies or democratic conference. >> always good to speak with you. thank you so much. my thanks to you, and for all of those who just heard me talked about you being named to the leadership, it's cochair of the

house democrat steering and policy committee. and once against you are the first african-american woman to serve in a leadership position. >> thank you so much. this is about paving the way for other women and women of color to take their rightful place at the leadership table. >> amen to do. pride and promise, can they lead to compromise? d anpromise, lead to compromise about 50% of people with evesevere asthma k? have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils.

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i will take the mantle. i will be the one. >> i appreciate the way you say that, but i'm very proud of doing what i'm doing. tut doesn't make any difference to me. just words. joining me now is bruce gennell. to the side of you, that's the

group that's left the white house. it's a bunch of staffers, but it looks like the meeting, which started about 2 1/2 hours ago is over. so, bruce, you heard what the president was doing right there. we played that sound bite. is it too late, all anyone has been to do is see the video of the president quite emphatically, quite proudly, in his words holding himself responsible for it. >> thanks for having me. happy new year, alex. the president promised, and as coop all his promising, that he wanted the wall. the american people want the wall. we want national security, we want the wall, the president is keeping his word.

as it gathers as it relates to -- you know, that's kind of shocking and scary in a way. the very own border workers, and the folks that govern the border stood there on the press conference. if you notice, and said, listen, we're willing to sacrifice, because we need this. you know, you have auld experts that we need this wall, and i don't understand why, you know, what the problem is for 5 billion to protect this nation. alex, the president took an oath of office to protect the nation. this is serious stuff. you know, years ago when 25 billion plus was proposed, it wasn't a problem. now when president trump wants it, now it's a problem. let's do the deal. >> but, bruce, the president says this is all about national security, but look at dhs, it's

severely impact. there are tens of thousands of immigration officers and agents working without pay, bruce. the immigration courts were already facing massive backlogs, and many of them have been furlough the, and what about that e-verify system. that is down. that's what employers use use to check the immigration status of new hires. is this about trying to avoid -- and, you know, let alone mexico paying for the wall, right now you have 800,000 federal employees that are paying for the wall. >> all the reasons, everything you stated that everyone needs to come together, the house come together, let's do this deal, let's get back to work. this is not uncommon to have a government shutdown, alex.

clinton shut it down for a month, and his agenda he proposed was ten times more the money. on everybody ain't lying about this. we have to get it constructed and done, asap. >> i do remember the clinton shutdown, but thanks for the compliment anyway. let's talk about the u.s. economy. yesterday we learned that employers added more jobs thatm economists had expected. it has reaped now a whopping 779 million, and you've got the national debt. it's more than 2 trillion higher. and contrary, bruce, to what the administration promised.

>> well, you know, the president, two years, alex, he's been in office, has done more than all presidents combined in decad decades. this president has taken the mantle of what we call generation of pay to play, everything else that totally infected our system as it relates to, you know, the nation's coffers. for two years versus the highers nation -- lower rate in 60 years, fastest-growing gdp i stand by this also, alex, president trump will be the best president ever for the minority business and minority population, period, by far. the numbers speak for themselves. >> is that your opinion?

i'm going to tell folks we were chatting during the break, and you've been spending time going around talking to small business owners, making any number of business speeches. is that what you're hearing from folks? not necessarily on the minority support, but in terms of the fears of a recession. are people saying they're worried about this to you? >> no. i see a really strong consumer confidence. they believe that the president in the oval office is a bigman, which he is. he looks at the nation like a balance sheet. how do we cut this to make money back for the kung, so we can be viable, we can run our businesses. you know, alex, i represent 30 million of 80% of the businesses in the country, i'm the 30 million of that. we want less regulations, we want less government, we love the fact that the president cut january 2017 a billion in regulations. he campaigned on cutting regulations. we the small business people, by

the way the people, we embrace that. that's why we have such a strong gdp growth. we had 300-plus on thousand jobs in the month of december alone. he's brought millions, more than any other president. >> all right. >> once again, for generations of other presidents, he as done a great job, you have to admit. >> bruce, i'll let you of the last word on that, but i have to remind people, 800,000 of our fellow citizens right now are struggling. >> let's come to the table, do the deal, let's get this country secured. >> i will speak with you again soon, bruce. thank you. >> thank you. will all this impeachment talk divide and distract democrats? that's next. talk divide and distract democrats? that's next.

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growing divisions over impeachment talk, as speaker nancy pelosi plays a balancing act. the issue reignited by rashida tlaib's cry for impeaching the president, and calling him an expletive. >> impeachment is a divisive approach to take, and we shouldn't talk it for anything other than the fact and the wall. we'll see what happens with the mueller report. >> let's bring in peter emerson. he's worked in three democratic administrations, and curt bar della, and rnc spokesperson

kayleigh mci nanny. >> and i want your thoughts of what the end of that meeting. you have secretary nielsen there. those -- we're seeing those folks just front and center. two and a half hours long, but you heard it said, kayleigh, in terms of expectations, that a lot of this rests on the president. that was said by the leader of the senate mitch mcconnell, he was not, to the best of our knowledge in this room, so what are your expectations from in meeting that just ended? >> i have high expectations. the president did stay over christmas break and the new year in washington wanting to negotiate. he didn't have a willing negotiating partner there. he has had several meetings. i'm hopeful with the group that met today, mike pence obviously the vice president there as a leader, but also jared kushner. i would note this, jared kushner is a very adept negotiator. as you'll recall, when the trade talks were breaking down over

nafta, it was jared kushner who picked up the phone and make the deal happen. it was jared kushner reaching out how hakeem jeffries and cory bookers and others making this happened. this is a good group. if anyone can get this done, it's this group. i hope democrats come to the table and realize we have a crisis when you have 300 americans dying because of heroin 90% of which comes over the border. it's time to get to work. >> i'm going to leave this conversation for the moment, i want to movement back to impeachment. i'll estate with you, peter. >> congresswoman tla oiismt ait say what others are thinking? not the expletive, but the idea. >> it would be very unfair to generalize, but we are in the age of understanding fairness, so let mess generalize after my week in washington meeting with

republicans and democrats. there are many like the congresswoman who declared both publicly and privately their interested in impeachment. i would say the vast majority, especially those chaired by republicans, particularly in the house, that are much more concerned with national security and the influence of the russian government on this president than they are on impeachment. >> so, the president weighed in himself on the prospect. here's what he said. >> nancy set, we're not looking to impeach you. i want, that's good, nancy, that's good, but you know what? you don't impeach people when you're doing a good job. you don't impeach people when there was no collusion, because there was no collusion. >> so from a republican perspective, kayleigh, first we should know that somebody who is doing a good job can be impeached, but i'm curious about his take on nancy pelosi. are democrats prepares for the

possibility? >> i think you have to prepared for it when you have representative sherman already introducing articles of impeachment. there is no base for impeachment, and i think it would be an incredibly wrong-headed move, especially if they're looking at any sort of polls. in november, it was said 68% want the new democratic majority to legislate and find areas of compromise and not to go down the impeachment road. you would be on the wrong side of voters. we can get a lot done, paid family leaves, americans deserve that. let's focus that and not on baseless calls -- >> you have the political harvard poll that shows it's like 20th on the list that people want to have this congress focus on. curt, what is your take? do you think the president should be worried more about impeachment? >> well, he certainly should be worried more than any other president in recent history.

when you look at the fact that the mueller report is still out there, we don't know the totality of what he's found. we can't make any judgments about whether there was collusion or no the until that report is revealed, then there westbound an appropriate conversation. they support the idea of having oversight. they're not talking about impeachment, but legitimate oversight. that we know has existed, that we know is going on and that should be rooted out. republicans for the better part were all about oversight up until donald trump became president. >> but kayleigh, the president seems to be numb to what is happening to those 800,000 individuals. should he have more concern? is he missing something?

>> i think he does have concern. that's why he chose to stay in the oval office over the break while nancy pelosi was in hawaii. he was asked, landlords, you should go easy, they're a victim and a character. we need democrats to come together and realize the facts that in the fiscal year 2017 and '18. criminals were apprehended -- >> kay debt leigh, look, is this more about the president being concerned about the 800,000 individuals, or as senator graham said, if he gives in, this will be the end of his presidency. >> it's being concerned about the citizens of our country, all of them. when you have officer ron singh, whos lost his life to an individual with known gang ties nosh not have been in this country, we have to care about those victims. >> what about all the people who have been shot and murdered by white americans in this country? where is the concern for homeland security and for law

enforcement when people are getting killed by guns every day. i don't see republicans doing anything about that. >> ear completely deflecting. >> what about a national emergency whether so -- >> you're deflecting the conversation. you're proving my point. you don't want to talk about the americans who lost their lives. >> every time a crime is -- republicans cannot wait to talk about, but when a crime is committed by a white guy with a gun, it's crickets from republicans. >> it's ignored by the left. it's incredible. i mention the name of an officer who lost their life, and it triggers you. >> how about all the people who got killed in vegas or parkland. >> do you know their names? do you know their stories? yeah, we addressed that. >> i don't see you talking about that. what did you do? what has been done? >> trump didn't do anything. >> you did nothing. nothing. peter, i want to ask you about something, and i should know that you and i spoke about

this, about the behind the scenes that you have, some insight into all of this. what are you hearing about the white house discussions on the border wall funding? specifically from that wednesday meeting that was inside the situation room. >> i just confirmed with my contact at customs and border patrol that during the wednesday meeting between the president and the republican and democratic leadership, the secretary of homeland security nielsen began a briefing on border security in which she claimed she had 98% coverage of a particular security tool. unfortunately the commissioner of customs and border patrol had testified in the senate a few weeks earlier that that number was actually 17%. when confronted with that reality, the commissioner had to confirm what he testified under oath to the senate and abruptly trump canceled the briefings, and i'm told that the commissioner was roundly castigated for not lying to

protect the secretary of homeland security's lie. >> that's sobering. he was castigated for telling what he said was the factual truth. >> that he had testified under oath before the senate several weeks ago. so, yes, lying is obviously unacceptable, but not uncommon in washington. what struck me was how disorganized it was that the fact that a leading member of her team, his testimony wasn't available to her, or she was unaware, which she should have been, that he testified to the exact opposite of what she claimed in the hearing. all right. that's going to have to be it for this particular conversation. i know i'll see all three of you again. thank you very much. we'll have more on the immediate that just ended he at the white house. we'll be right back. just ended the white house. we'll be right back. (danny) let me get this straight.

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here's what we were watching. it happened about 25 minutes ago. up see vice president mike

pence, keirstjen nielsen and it lasted about two and a half hours. we have yet to get a readout of what happened, what was discussed, what kind of headway may have been made in this meeting. of course it was all about how to end this partial government shutdown. as soon as we get more information on that, we're going to bring that to you here on msnbc. meantime, the president is sending new warnings to congressional democrats after refusing to end the shutdown over his proposed wall. >> have you considered using emergency powers to grant yourself authority to build this wall without congressional approval. >> yes, i have. and i can do it if i want. >> reporter: so you don't need congressional approval to build a wall? >> absolutely. we can call a national emergency because of the security of our country. we can do it. >> joining me is white collar criminal defense attorney and former chair of the new york

bar. can he do this, scott. is that legal or constitutional? >> well, he can certainly try to do it, let's just say that. obviously the congress would have to appropriate the dollars, even if he declared a national emergency, but he would meet legal challenges. if he dipped into the d.o.d. budget where there were funds that were unallocated but there or if he tried reprogramming funds, he could try to do that. w we don't know how much is this that fund. he would face an almost immediate legal challenge, as well as political challenge and he would have to demonstrate why in is a national security issue or national crisis. those are a lot of hoops, which is why you heard the president say, he always lets himself out, have a legal way out. he said he'd rather do it through congress as opposed to a national crisis. >> but if he could get it done and thereby placate those supporters who want to see a wall constructed there, why has

he waited till now to threaten doing this? and from a congressional standpoint calling this a national emergency, doesn't that need some sort of an approval in congress or does it not? >> well, there's a statute that gives him some authority to declare a national emergency. weep know whether the statute allows him to say things. he says all kinds of things that have nothing to do with reality so let's just go away from that. i think the real question is does he have the power to take monies that have been sitting authorized and appropriated for other purposes and use them under the guise of a national emergency to build this wall? in my view, a quick reading of the statute that allows schiffing of funds, you can't do it for this purpose. i mean, if there's a national emergency, we're talking about a war. if you need to build some place for the troops to stay while they're fighting the war, a military base, housing for the

troops, that's what you can do. but you can't give money to the troops to do something that doesn't have anything to do with them. and i think this is just another one of his hair brain schemes and we know time after time his cruel, unnecessary, horrifying policies on the border, whether it's separation of children from the parents or whether it's stopping people from coming in under the asylum laws or whether it's his initial total ban on muslim immigration, all of those were shut down by the courts. and so i think the reason he's doing this now in this way is he's very worried about whether he has authority. he's trying to threaten congress. it not going to work. the democrats are not going to support a wall. and what i find horrifying, it's given part of his cruelty as part of doing anything to improve his image and to deal with the problems of immigration is that he's holding 800,000 workers and their families

hostage day by day to -- are they going to have enough money to put food on the table? is the house going to be taken away? is the mortgage going to be foreclosed on? what is he doing to this country? for his image? that's an outrage. quickly, though it's not a quick topic, get you both to weigh in on the federal judge who granted special counsel mueller a grand jury extension. this would conform thirm muelle not yet near the end of his investigation. does that tell you we have a ways to go? >> not sure how long it's going to go on but getting an ex-tension ex extension for section months or however long it was, he's not done yet. he's also got a couple of challenges, lawsuits pending in regard to his authority. i'm a former prosecutor from the manhattan d.a.'s office. you could carry on this case to a new grand jury, but given the

complexities of this white collar case and what have you, it really requires the same grand jury for continuity purposes mostly continues on. the supreme court recognized that and gave them the, tensi extension. >> unfortunately, i'm being told i have to wrap. elizabeth, i will start with you next time, my friend. the government shutdown means white house officials and government staffers have ended today after about a two and a half hour long meeting. t a two half hour long meeting oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ there's brushing...and there's oral-b power brushing. oral-b just cleans better. even my hygienist said going electric could lead to way cleaner teeth. and unlike sonicare, oral-b is the first electric toothbrush brand accepted by the ada. oral-b. brush like a pro.

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