i turn it over now to reverend al sharpton and "politicsnation." good evening, and welcome to "politicsnation." tonight's lead, federal workers are filing for unemployment, courts are going broke, and food stamps are threatened because the government is now in the third week of its postural shutdown, which is president trump said friday, it may go on for, quote, months or even years. despite back-to-back meetings over the last two days, the white house and congressional democrats ended the week still in stalemate over funding for president trump's border wall. he suggested he might declare a national emergency to get it. this as we learned this week the

department of homeland security is already asking the pentagon for more u.s. troops on the southern border, possibly extending the controversial military mission nearly into next year. it's our first show of 2019. let's get it on. joining me now is republican strategist scher michael singleton, alexei mccammen, political reporter for axios, chris lew, former deputy secretary of labor under president obama, and caitlyn dickerson, immigration reporter for "the new york times." let me go to you first, chris. you were in the administration of president obama, and you went through a government shutdown. i think need to understand that while we're looking at this back and forward with the senate congressional leaders and the

white house, the reality is you were deputy secretary of labor. the 800,000 federal workers, some on furlough, some working and not getting paid until whenever this is over, went through the holidays and are going through now where not only are they waiting on delayed checks where some are saying you can write your landlord or mortgage holder, but what about buying gas? and buying food and a bottle of milk? all of this now is up in the air and getting more and more of a situation that is certainly not palpable for a lot of these federal workers. >> that's exactly right. i think the popular conception is that federal workers are very well paid and there are certainly some well paid federal workers. a lot of folks are living paycheck to paycheck. so 800,000 people who are not getting a paycheck, they will start to cut back on their spending. and think about the contract

workers, the security guards, janitors, cafeteria workers who will never get back pay along the way, think about the small business owners who rely on national parks. you mentioned it at the outside, think about the 30 million people that rely on food stamps, who might not get their food stamps, $140 billion of tax refund, that might not go out the door. this is going to have a very powerful, ripple effect throughout the economy. yesterday we had fantastic job numbers. i don't expect those numbers to continue if this shutdown drags on. >> alexei, when you look at the politics of this, there's another blame to go around but it seems as though many of the opinion polls that i have reviewed is saying that a lot of voters, including some in the strongholds of this president, is saying wait a minute, i agree with a lot of his policy but not this. >> i think that's exactly right.

president trump said many times he would accept the blame for the shutdown, and i think you see that reflected in the polls that you said. government shutdown could be abstract for a lot of americans who are to not maybe directly affected by it but as stories come out how people in trump country and around the state are struggling, and as you mentioned earlier in the show, to afford basic groceries and necessities, i think this will become a concrete and real thing not just for folks at home but the president himself as he's doubling down on the $5.6 billion he's asking for the wall and maybe he will start to reconsider when he sees how the stronghold republicans who he thinks will remain loyal to him no matter what are starting to feel sour with what he's doing with this government shutdown. >> not only do you deal with the politics of the president, you deal with the politics of the republican party. you're a strategist for many of them. many of them will be facing re-election this year, including majority leader mitch mcconnell.

how long can they stay by the president without harming themselves and maybe in an irrepairable way for their own political future? >> i think, reverend sharpton, you have some republican senators such as susan collins out of maine who faces an upcoming election in 2020 saying this is a problem and we need to reconcile and compromise. this is the top of the year. bills are due. for the president, at some point he will have to answer to many people, including people who voted for him and staunch supporters of his who rely on services from the government. some may be federal workers or contracted out by the federal government and those folks can't fwh pay their bills to the points you raised at the top of the show. they're going to call republican senators and say enough is enough of this. i think you can secure the border while not losing sight of the human factor here. i think the president is acting like a petulant child here because he wants to have his

way. the fact of the matter is as a leader, sometimes you have to do more listening than talking and i think that's something the needs to adhere to. >> when you raise the human factor here, this morning i read your piece, caitlyn, in "the new york times." i don't think people understand the conditions at the border. i have heard people acting like this is like some hotel with all kinds of gratuities that the people that have come across the border and are being detained. w two children died under u.s. detention. give a sense to our viewers that what life is, let's put away our politics and view of the wall, but what are we doing to the detainees, many of whom came here seeking asylum and many of them children that came because their parents brought them, no decision of their own? >> that's right.

so along the border our reporting showed that when people go into border patrol custody, just as the two young child who died do, they're coming into a set of facilities that were set up to house adults. and largely adult men. and now we're seeing half the people crossing the border are families and children. in one sector alone in yuma, arizona, 87% of people who cross the border are part of a family. more than half are children. so the facilities just aren't set up to take care of these demographics and what i heard from federal workers and what wrote is they're incredally frustrated because they've been asking for months now for support from the white house to address the changing demographics on the ground and make sure people are safe and they're taken care of to go through this legal process. but the white house has been so focused on deterrent strategies on the wall that people are required and immigration authorities are required to continue to churn out these harsh policies, even though it's

widely discussed -- >> these are u.s. federal workers that have continually asked for more help from the white house because of the conditions, because the facilities are not set up to handle children and they've basically been ignored. >> that's what they told us. instead they are told they need to focus more on deterrence policy. we know the asylum ban was blocked by the court. so the new policies that are under preparation now wanting to set up tent cities along the border for families and others to require asylum seekers to remain in mexico, within the department of homeland security there are open discussions these are likely to be blocked by the court in the same way but they still have to continue moving forward because that's the direction the white house is telling them to go. >> and we're looking at this while we are seeing data that establishes that there is, compared to other years, preceding years, we're seeing

less people try to come across the border, less people trying to come into the country. the caravan that the president talked about does not exist. now he's come up with terrorists. we can't find one case where someone has been charged with terrorism. so in many ways, the president is just outright making up boogiemen to try to scare the public into supporting this wall policy that is blocking fewer people coming in than we've seen in past years. >> yeah, and i'm really glad you brought that up because that is an essential fact to all of this. the number of folks who tried to come in the country illegally in the fiscal year 2018 is lower than the year of 2014 and fiscal year of 2016. yet as you mentioned president trump continues to throw out facts and figures that simply just don't add up. they are sort of, it seems, a way to instill fear of folks in the other, of folks who don't look like them, of immigrants that try to come into the country, as a way to order

support for the border wall he's insisting for no matter what. we all remember at his rallies in the 2016 election, the folks in the crowd who would chant build a wall. that is in large part why he won the white house. he sort of instilled this fear from the moment he announced his candidacy for president by setting up this idea he was going to build a wall no matter what. i think that is certainly on his mind when he's thinking about re-election in 2020. if you notice, he's the only one talking about re-election in 2020 and this relating to the government shutdown and border wall, not the democrats. >> now, when we look at this election, the politics of it, when you look at the fact that this president had agreed in principle with what the senate had passed and then he turned around on his own agreement of a senate bill after some of the hard right pundits that talked to his base, rush limbaugh, et al, and many are saying, including me, that he's reacting

more to them than he's dealing with sound policy of immigration of this country, and his own principle -- span in principle, i should say, to what the senate had already agreed to. >> that is another great point to bring up. senator chuck schumer gave an interview with "the new york times" earlier this week which he made that same point saying, look, the president is saying how the far right supporters of his on fox news or otherwise are unhappy with his decisions to think about even granting asylum for daca recipients, for dreamers. they don't want him to make any concessions on the border wall. they don't want him to make any concessions on immigration or sign comprehensive immigration reform. and he's listening to them. he's listening to the small, but he thinks strong group of folks that support him no matter what. if he feels threatens by losing them, he doubles and threatens

down. he's threatened not only about fox news hosts but nancy pelosi taking over the house, he's threatened by democrats taking the majority of the house who have control over oversight and investigation, who are trying to reopen the government. he's threatened by this divided government he's facing and what is he doing? he's standing by himself, doubling and tripling down on this border wall he knows he's not going to get and democrats on the hill told me they're not going to give him a single cent for this border wall, no matter what type of concessions he tries to give them because they say it's problems he has created himself so they say there's no reason to negotiate with him for the problems he created. >> shermichael, when you look at the fact this president is seemingly governing by extreme right wing radio and tv has to be frightening to you as a republican what happens to your party, and he sat in what he orchestrated a live tv showdown with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer and said, i will own the

shutdown. put it on me. i will take full credit or the weight of it. and now it's here and he's blaming the democrats of a shutdown that he said, it's mine. give it to me. >> look, an overwhelming majority of every single legitimate poll that i have looked at does indicate that a vast majority of the american people do indeed blame donald trump and the republican party. from my advantage point, the republican party has in many ways become a party based purely on fear, not a party based on empathy, not a party based on compassion. that seems a little hypocritical when you think about the republican party being a party of moral values, christian values. you're a pastor yourself, reverend sharpton, certainly you would agree nothing we've seen thus far coming from this president is consistent with folks who would say they uphold the bible, they uphold christian truths. so from my perspective as a conservative, i'm extremely disappointed in this because it

is impacting people negatively, particularly people at the lower end of the economic spectrum. that does not benefit anyone, particularly many of the people who voted for donald trump himself. so i'm not certain how long he can continue holding out here. democrats have no mandate whatsoever to work with him on this. i do think if this continues to linger on, we will begin to see more republicans in the senate say, you know what, i have an election coming up. i cannot risk continuing to support this. we need to make a compromise and open up the government. and after all, reverend sharpton, why can't we open up the government and figure out a we to address immigration reform with something comprehensive? >> chris, that's what they're saying, they're saying let's give it a month, let's open the government. we can work on this a month. he won't even accept that. and when you hear the point that's been raised by several on the panel about morality, not only are we ignoring the children that are being detained that caitlyn has written about

and brought up tonight, we're talking about american workers as well, federal workers that are now trying to figure out how do i get the gas to drive my kid to school on monday morning? i mean, as someone who has worked at the highest level of government, where does the empathy and sensitivity of the people you are governing come in to play here? >> well, look, as the other panelists have said, when you go into government, you think about what is in the best interest of the people. and one of the hallmarks of great presidents is they understand the value of co compromise, they understand the value of putting differences aside and trying to solve difficult challenges. the problem with this president is whenever he's confronted with a chance to show he's a real negotiator, he backs down. he backs down because of the fear of his own conservative base or conservative media. he flip-flops all the time, does

he want a concrete wall, steel slat wall? it's impossible to negotiate with him. let's not forget the hypocrisy right now happening on capitol hill. in one of the first acts of the new house democratic congress, they passed a bill to keep the government open, that is essentially the exact same bill that the senate passed on a unanimous vote on december 19th. and senator mcconnell, the majority leader, has said he will not take up the bill unless the president has indicated he will sign it. >> it's the very same bill? >> very same bill. look, i'm old enough to remember when the u.s. senate considered itself a co-equal branch of government and senator schumer abdicated all control to the president right now. >> caitlyn dierkerson, thank you for being with us and your reporting. i'm old enough to remember going to see the statue of liberty, bring me your tide in huddle masses, yearn to be free. it's cloudy in new york today but i think statue still stands.

thank you for being with us. i will see the rest of you a bit later. coming up -- you heard the politics surrounding the shutdown. but how will politicians reach across the aisle to end it? i will ask congresswoman sheila jackson lee next. for your heart... or joints. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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new democratic committee chairs are vowing to begin opening up investigations into the president's finances, the russia probe, the administration's ethics scandals, and even impeachment. joining me now is congresswoman sheila jackson lee, democrat of texas and member of the view di judiciary homeland security budget committee. congresswoman, you and the democrats are back in the majority. you have vowed to hold the president accountable and at the same time deal with voting rights, health issues and other things to show you can walk and chew gum at the same time. but let's look for a minute on holding the president accountable. you have introduced a bill first to protect these special investigations of robert mueller. explain that to our viewers.

>> every moment that special counsel mueller -- and happy new year to you, reverend. >> happy new year to you. >> thank you. was involved in his investigation, there was always a threat hanging over his investigation by this white house. first his contempt that he had for his own attorney general, meaning the president, mad at general sessions because he recused himself, his intimidation of the deputy attorney general rosenstein calling him to the white house, and his firing of james comey. there was always something. so we as members of the committee thought it was important to have the kind of legislative protection that would hold the president accountable in any effort that he made to fire and interrupt and interject himself into the investigation. this legislation will allow the special counsel to be able to challenge any firing and for his firing to be only on the basis for cause.

i introduced legislation that 173 co-sponsor that would stop the firing from the beginning. we've now joined in bipartisan compromise legislation that gives that special counsel the opportunity to have his matter reviewed if it is perceived he's not been fired for cause. we think this is very important. and this will be one of the legislative initiatives that the democrats expect to pass within the next two months. because we think it is extremely important. and you may be aware that the mueller investigation asked for the grand jury to be extended for another six months, and that as well we've determined that michael cohen may have been in prague during the time that it was questionable as to whether or not there were russian contractors there that needed to be paid. this is not going to end soon, and we have to do it thoroughly. that is a constitutional structure, that presidents have to be held accountable for laws that are criminal and non. and they may in fact meet the

standards of high crimes and misdemeanors. >> now, aas we look at this, we know the president has attacked the investigation by mueller calling it a witch-hunt. we know many are saying that the committee that are saying they're going to look into various aspects of the president's world is politically motivated, but at what point is the integrity of government in some ways damaged if we don't see what is real and what is not real behind a mountain of allegations, and some please and some of the president's own inei encircle stating things that are absolutely astounding to many american citizens. >> reverend, i hate to say it but we're at that moment now. what presidency can you remember

in our respectively short lifetime that's had five of their closest aides indicted? no one has challenged their indictment. they've either pleaded, they've gone into court, they've either had to be brought back in because they violated the kindness of special counsel mueller by leaving them out of prison. there are more to come. there's a monument investigation and lawsuit which i have come on in a amicus brief that challenges the president's family for receiving benefits while in office, in direct contradiction of the constitution. there's an extreme necessity of not allowing this to become the norm. it is unfortunate the language of the president seemingly has become the norm. the running of the government by fox news seemingly has been accepted as the norm. if the democrats with speaker pelosi and all of the chairpersons in my committee and

homeland security committee do not stand up and put a stop sign so the american people so that this does not become the norm, that the world who watches this very important democracy, and known as the leader of the free world, and it's the oldest democracy, if we don't begin to clean up our own house so it's not taken that america has changed and no longer has the international high moral ground, we're in trouble. the moment is now. the democrats are not going to wait and you're absolutely right, we can chew gum and walk at the same time. there will be discussions on many issues that we are promised or have promised the american people. the blue wave is not a fantasy. >> you know, we're talking about the basic right to vote and what influences voters, which is really at the core of what this democracy, as you say, the oldest in the world really

stands for. we're talking about whether or not a foreign country, one adversarial to us, by the way, interfered with the help of a candidate or those involved in his candidacy, involved in an american election. there couldn't be anything more basic than that. >> nothing more basic but also more history making. we can't remember in the last 50 years, maybe 100 years, maybe since the beginning of our small, fledgling democracy, where we had such a blatant intrusion into the democratic electoral process. now, we all know we have a spy system, the cia, and every other country has a spy system. over the period of time we're back and forth spying on any number of things, from our technology, our science, our medicine, our politics. but as it relates to the purity of the election system and direct engagement of a presidential candidate in collaboration with a foreign entity, i have to believe that that is a first time.

it should be the last time. and that is what democrats are saying, and that is why we're not going to leave one stone left unturned. we believe the number of witnesses that appeared before the intelligence committee, whole series of them from his family members to his close associates, we believe they may have told an untruth to the intelligence community. those witnesses will be brought back. we believe it's important to have the tax returns of the president. we will give them an opportunity to present them to the ways and means committee and other committees. we believe we must question the ethics of this administration. the present attorney general, who has not been approved by the advice and consent of the senate -- >> whitaker. >> we believes there are questions of lying that the judiciary committee will have to ask about. and reverend, we cannot just sit by. the blue wave is not a fantasy. we promised the american people we would bring about change. >> before i let you go, you

represent is part of harris county, texas, where a horrific shooting took place, a young 7-year-old girl killed in her car, mother wounded, sister wounded, and we are told there is a suspect who may be wanted for a hate crime here. even the authorities have not ruled out a hate crime. he is a white male and you have asked for federal intervention on this as you have stood in many civil rights cases and other cases. can you give us an update on where that is? people all over the country are up in arms about this brutal killing of this young 7-year-old jazmine barnes who was killed and certainly our prayers for the barnes' family. >> you know, i want to offer my deepest sympathy to the family of jazmine, grandmothers, beloved mother, father, many extended family members.

we just left them in a rally just a few minutes ago. this is, i believe, an incident of national proportion. we often say or often heard we talk about race too much, many of us people of color of the let me be very clear, i don't want any child to die. i don't want the children to die at the border. i don't want any child to die by gun violence. but this is an incident that needs the attention of the nation. if you see something, say something. this was an early morning hours of sunday, december 30th, when a mother decided to take her children for a little morning breakfast, early in the morning. four beautiful girls driving down a street, minding their own business, if you will, when a red pickup truck surged up behind them. first one side staring the pa passenger, little girl in the eye, and swerving around on the passenger side and, reverend, unloaded -- unload ed as the family has said, their firearms into the car, wounding the mom and fatally wounding this

precious little girl. and then to the fear of the family, they thought he was chasing them as they tried to rush to the hospital. it was a frightening morning. he's been described as a white male with a hood. and an incident hand some weeks -- i'm sorry, a few years before that has not been resolved with the same description. i believe we have a problem here. i believe it may be a hate crime, and i'm asking the nation of the surrounding states that are surrounding texas because it's now six days into the investigation, to help us. and if anyone has any indication to let local authorities, but i've called the department of justice, i've asked them to stand by to be able to be a resource for looking at the hate crime database and working with federal law enforcement, even though they're part of the shutdown but they're essential workers to be able to be on call to help if this person has

already fled the texas jurisdiction. that is our fear. that is the fear of many of us. so we hope that is not the case. if you see something, say something. if you know something, please let us know. if it hand to be in your jurisdiction outside of the state of texas, please let state authorities or local authorities here in texas know. >> we will be keep following that. i talked to bishop james dixon who works with us about this there in houston and we're certainly able to do whatever we can nationally to really raise the call for finding this person that's at large. again, our support and prayers for the family. thank you so much congresswoman lee. >> we thank so many that have been helping, reverend, and we thank you as well. still ahead, my memo to president trump. aaaaaahhhhhhhh! ballooned your car. call meeeee! (burke) a fly-by ballooning. seen it, covered it.

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and now for my weekly memo to president trump. this week we saw the hands of power change in congress. nancy pelosi is house speaker, and second in line to the presidency. new democratic chairmans are poised to open endless investigations into your presidency, your campaign and financial life. without the majority in both houses of congress, you no longer with the leverage to ram legislation into law, mr. president.

we already are in a government shutdown. so where is the republican leadership, and how are you going to face the reality of compromising with democrats? staring you directly in the facfac face. one way, mr. president, in this shutdown, you're the one who preached make america great. make america first. well, make the american federal workers first. think of that lady in west virginia that is running out of milk money for her children that's a federal worker, who voted for you. think of that man that is in pennsylvania, wondering how he's going to keep getting gas. he can't give them a letter saying i will get paid by and by when the morning comes. think of your own supporters and stand up for them if you really believe what you preached. i know you're concerned about

russia arush and the friends of yours at fox say. they'll say you're weak. no, you would be strong to stand up to the people who stood up and voted for you. it's time for you to show the real art of the deal and deal the american federal workers in to a place where they can take care of their families and pay their bills. be right back with my panel. th .

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i said baby, they don't, because we're going to go in there and impeach the [ bleep ]. >> now, chris lu, i'm not one to support using profanity in public. in private people say and do what we want. but we are talking about a president that called nations s-hole countries and called nfl players s.o.b.s and he wasn't using the abbreviations. so now have we gotten to where we are normalizing this kind of lewd language? though i don't think we should meet him at the bottom. i want to remind people this is not the profanity that we've heard during this political season. >> that's exactly right, reverend. with all due respect to the congresswoman, i'm a lot less concerned about her harsh language than i am about the policies, the lies, the vicious attack on this president -- this

president has launched on generals, gold star families, even members of his own cabinet. look, i think we need more civility in politics, but i think it is important that we make clear that this president should be investigated. for now i think we ought to leave impeachment off the table. i think we should be focusing on smart, targeted oversight, oversight that improves the fin functioning of government, shores up the institutions of our government, that helps ferret out wrongdoing. and let's wait and see where the mueller report goes before we start talking about impeachment. >> shermichael, when many of us have been saying where are the grown-ups in the republican party, this week there was an op-ed piece, pretty scathing piece, on the character of the president by now senator -- he was senator-elect when he wrote it a couple of days ago but he's now been sworn in, mitt romney of utah.

your reaction to what mr. romney wrote, saying -- i agree with the president on his policies but his character is something that has really lowered the presidency, his conduct over the past two years, i'm reading his words, not mine, particularly his actions last month is evidence the president has not risen to the mantle of the office. that is quite an indictment from a leading republican, who was the presidential candidate for the republican party in 2012. are we starting to see people in the republican leadership begin to say, i've got to stand up to this president? and are we seeing the possibility that he may face primers by major players in the party like mitt romney who did win the nomination? >> i don't think we will see

more individuals speaking out. while i agree 100% with what senator romney stated. i worked on his presidential campaign in 2012, he's someone that i respect. i think donald trump still commands a high enough approval rating within the republican party where many senators and representatives are just too afraid to speak out against him out of fear from the voters. i think that you don't have to necessarily agree with donald trump on every single thing. as romney wrote in that particular piece, you can agree on certain policy positions while critiquing his character flaws. i think when you think about conservatism as a philosophy, representing morality, representing tradition, order, structure, customs of behavior, donald trump is antithetical to every single one of those tenants of what it should be to be a conservative. so i think at some point in time as the republican party continues to move forward, as the country becomes more diverse, as we sort of see and experience his paradigm shift,

if you will, in the republican party, we at some point have to answer what does it mean to be a republican, what does it mean to be a conservative? are we going to maintain values? are we going to take the high road and represent morality and tradition? or are we going to take the trump route of egoism, of selfishness, of only the self? my hope is not the latter of the two. so reverend sharpton, i'm not certain if more republicans will speak out but i certainly hope more do. >> all right. i'm going to have to let chris lu go. i will get you after the break, alexi, on the next question then. i don't know if we're going to take the high road or not, shermichael. i just wish we would stay off the low road. stay with me. up next, what it could take to get the trump administration to compromise on the border wall and reopen the government. we'll be right back. the protein you need with less of the sugar you don't. (straining) i'll take that. (cheers) 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar.

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if he has to give up a concrete wall, replace it with a steel fence in order to do that so that democrats can say, see, he's not building a wall anymore, that should help us move in the right direction. >> you want the headline to be? >> actually, under the way the law is written right now, it is not a law technically. if it is not evidence of the president's desire to try to resolve it, i don't know what is. >> that was acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney speaking exclusively to nbc's chuck todd about what the trump administration is prepared to offer democrats as a compromise

to end the government shutdown. joining me now, jason johnson, editor of "the root" and an msnbc contributor, and back with me shermichael singleton and alexi mccommon. let me go to you, lexi, how do you react to what mr. mulvaney was saying on "meet the press." >> it seems he is adding more to the story than there needs to be, talking about the different structures of the wall. president trump has started calling it a barrier, which i think is interesting because it suggests a concession. trump is digging his heels in and demanding a border wall and the wall he sees fight and that only he agrees on. republican sources told us at axios just last night and today that one way that the shutdown could sort of, you know, come to an end is if these 800,000 workers we talked about at the

start of the show stopped getting paid and that starts dominating local news coverage. there was an ap report of a woman who works for irs customer service, who has the receipts for things she has bought recently in case she runs out of money and needs to turn the items back so she can afford simple groceries and necessities. i think if that starts coming and flooding the cable news coverage and local news coverage around the country, president trump might start to reconsider this wall he is demanding. >> jason, changing the name, not the budget, not what it is being erected for, even though many experts say it really will not affect of of anything, changing the name, is that really a compromise to you? >> you know, rev, you can call it a slap, a tap or a beatdown, i'm still getting punched in the face, right? like you can't change the words and change the impact on something. this wall that the president wants is a monument to white nationalism. anybody who agrees to give any money to this wall is foolish.

by the way, as i have said all along, donald trump said that mexico was going to pay for the wall. so unless he gets a check for lopez, i don't see why democrats have any reason to have a conversation with him. >> so shermichael, what happened to mexico paying for the wall? he said something about his new agreement replacing nafta, they will pay for it by and by. i mean i grew up in brownsville, brooklyn. we used to buy clothes on lay-away but i never heard of building a wall on lay-away and you have to pay all of the money up front until the lay-away plan kicks in. >> well, look, reverend sharpton, i don't think anyone ever believed in the first place that mexico would pay for this, but it is interesting going to a point that dr. johnson just raised. the strong fence act of 2006, there was data released by customs a customs and border from 2010 to 2015 that indicated, i believe, of the 600-plus miles of fencing uprooted, it was essentially crossed or destroyed in some

capacity over 9,000 times. it cost millions of dollars to the taxpayers to fix those breaches and to sustain this. so if the president is talking about a structure that is some kind of a way different or taller or using different material, if that structure is going to be breached, and you can presume that the cost to maintain and repair is going to increase exponentially. so, look, i don't think this is a real argument the president is making. i don't think the president is living in reality. all the data indicates that immigration or illegal immigration rather is down significantly. we do know for a fact that even the cato institute data suggests that immigration is good for this country, it is good for the economy. that is a libertarian, conservative-leaning organization. so when you look at all of the data across the board, it does not back the president. the president is only doing this because he made a campaign promise, a promise that he is trying to keep that i ultimately think he won't be able to deliver on. >> all right. i'm going to have to leave it there. thank you, jason johnson,

shermichael singleton and alexi mccommon. >> thanks, rev. >> up next, my final thoughts. >> up next, my final thoughts. hard work baby, it gonna pay off.

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what we stand for. does this nation stand for taking care of its citizens and treating those around the world in a humane way, the kind of moral standing this country fought hard to try to establish despite all of its flaws? you as a citizen should define who you are. there was an old civil rights song i learned as a kid they used to sing, "which side are you on." no wh not what party do you belong to, not whether you call yourself conservative or progressive, but what side are you on. are you on the side of government workers? are you on the side of those that are victims of hate crimes and nobody seeks justice? are you on the side of those with preexisting conditions that need to continue to get help and coverage? which side are you on? '19 is the year of definition.

define who you are and express yourself. that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern. and to keep the conversation going, like us at facebook.com/politicsnation and follow us on twitter @politicsnation. up next, "deadline: white house" with my friend nicolle wallace. ♪ hi, everyone. happy new year. it is 4:00 in new york. donald trump woke up to a sharp rebuke from the "wall street journal" today and the defection of two republican senators on his shutdown sheningans. what do you think he did? he set up the rose garden and held court for a full hour desperate to change the conversation