impotence. where are the pesos. everything else you didn't need to know. thank you for watching anyway. new thanks to steve schmidt. >> where are the pesos? >> force me to get through this. go. go ahead. >> where are the pesos? >> i'm trying to get through one sentence without crying. the trouble makers, every last one of them. that does it for the hour. "mtp daily" mercyfully starts right now. >> chuck, where are the pesos? >> stop. >> heilman is the trouble maker. it's john. >> political impotence is a real thing. the giggle monster is here. the three men are like tee he. we never recovered. that was at like 4:40. >> they will make it into a

promo. goodbye. >> if it's tuesday, it's an emergency. or is it? good evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington. the president has manufactured a heck of a political crisis for himself. tonight we are going to find out what he plans to do about the shut down or if he even has a new plan. we are hours away from the president addressing the nation from the oval office for the first time in his presidency as he threatens to declare a national emergency in an attempt to bypass congress and unilaterally build his infamous wall. it's unclear if that's what tonight is about. that raises the question. if it's not about that, what the heck is tonight about? if tonight is a pr stunt and this government shut down could

last a lot longer, they have no real exit strategy here which democrats might see as a best casey casey isio for them. is he really thinking he's going to talk about a crisis and it will galvanize support for him and against the democrats? recall the president made the mid-terms a referendum of what he called a literal invasion along the southern border. that allowed democrats to win 40 seats. consider if tonight is not a show, the best option seemingly available to the president is to take the drastic step of declaring a national emergency, reopening the government at the same time and having to order the military to build the wall that leads to a bunch of court filings. the biggest emergency facing this administration is political and self inflicted. the president is boxed in. his claims about why he needs the wall and how he is going to

landlord it and who he thinks it would stop have been debunked by his own statements and misstatements. consider this one. he is going to argue before the nation that there is a full-blown crisis when less than a month ago he declared our southern border is now secure. in a few moments, vice president pence briefed house republicans signalling concerns about eroding gop support for the president's shut down fight. here we are again in an uncharted territory with the president in a corner and more problems seemingly awaiting him whether tonight is just a show or not. the campaign member for

president obama, al fans fonso briefly a surrogate for the trump campaign in 2016. let's begin with information. jeff bennett, what do we know about this speech tonight so far? it doesn't sound like the president has anything to announce or declare. it does seem as if it's more about making a case. >> you are right about that. our latest reporting is that the president tonight will not declare a state of emergency. he would like to do something like that and he is considering it. you could raise the question, what's there to consider? there is a national security emergency at the border or there isn't. the wrinkle is that white house lawyers have to determine whether declaring a national emergency is justifiable. legally defensible. it's not just that the president would do that. he would do that to curtail congress to build this border barrier he wants. yes, he had the discretion to

declaring the emergency, but could he get this money? we don't know. what we know is he is going to try to make his case direct to the american public and leverage the historical symbolic might of the oval office to make this case that yes, there is a national security emergency brewing at the border best solved by this border barrier and we know that the only real emergency and this is expert after expert telling us this, there is a political emergency. not a national security emergency. it was donald trump who preemptively claimed credit and said he would be happy to own a shut down over border security and decided not to sign the spending deal that both sides have agreed to. here we are with the shut down on track to be the longest shut down in u.s. history. there is no deal on the horizon. the president is trying to get in front of all of the damaging effects of the shut down. we barrel into friday, january 11th, the first day these

workers will miss their paycheck and from there, it gets worse and worse. chuck? >> jeff bennett at the white house and the famous words of the president himself, he could change his mind. we'll see. by 9:00 tonight. kasie hunt, matt thornbury on capitol hill in the house, a texas republican basically said emphatically he doesn't believe defense money should be used for nondefense issues. is that why the president is fearful of declaring a national emergency? he doesn't have the political cover from his own party? >> it's an interesting scenario, chuck. what you point out is a rare spot where the chairman agreed and that's that the department of defense doesn't get enough of the money that they think they

need. so if you think about the way that the party traditional lines up, especially the republican party, if you are trying to take it from dod, a lot of hawks say hey, we get this is a problem, but we have more crisis abroad that this money was intended for. i think both in this specific case that you raise and more broadly, potential discontent among republicans is the chief brewing problem for president trump and his advisers right now. >> let me pause you there and ask you, it seems as if -- the white house doesn't seem to think they have the problem that we think they have on capitol hill. do you sense that? >> it's a little bit difficult to kind of pull out these threads because a lot of the people i talked to are willing to acknowledge in more stark term that is the trust and

communication between and among republicans is possibly at a low point in the course of this shut down. it stems from that meeting where vice president pence was behind the 69s with senate leaders and from their perspective assures them the president would sign that short-term bill that the senate passed. mitch mcconnell said that's what's going to happen. think of that as a breech of trust and misunderstanding and communication that left mitch mcconnell on the outside of this process. it left increasing discontent on the house side. the problem is obviously that to a certain extent this is in the president's hands, he only needs the republican party to a certain extent and it takes such a massive revolt from the republicans. they haven't shown the willingness to do that. i think that's a mitigating factor. this is getting worse, not better. both sides are incredibly dug

in. i see this address escalating the problem. it doesn't deescalate it. >> fair point. kasie hunt, thank you very much. what do you think of all of this? it is amazing that the president has nothing to announce. i thought this morning felt like we were going to declare a national emergency and simultaneously open the government and picture, all right, that's a way of capitulating without look being like you are caving. that's not where we are going. >> the president is dealing with a political crisis. he is losing the shut down battle and more of the problem blames him than democrats. there are tough questions as to why this is an emergency. border apprehensions are down. more people are overstaying visas and getting caught at the southern border. some of their own figures debunk that. why it's a national engineer now

as opposed to one or two years ago. why is he making the case in the government shut down. there is the nervousness that republicans have that if you go down this root and if a republican president declares a national emergency and builds a wall, can a democratic president impose a single payer system and declare a climate emergency and ban fossil fuels. >> you have been on here a lot when we talked about different ways the immigration issue can be solved and it doesn't feel like tonight's speech is going to get us closer to finding a solution and may get us further away. >> right. i will say that even though the president said that this may last weeks or months, i don't believe that people in the white house believe that. >> yeah, but the president might be on his own. >> that's what he is going to say, but he needs to strike a deal. i think he believes right now that first that he can turn the

tables on the democrats and that's why he is giving a speech. that requires two things. it requires him to be eloquent and it requires him to be factual. i do believe as you know, i have been supportive of border fencing before donald trump was around. i think if he were to explain why it's necessary and thou helped in the past 12 to 20 years to considerably reduce the tensions, 2006 we had a million detentions. we are down to 300,000. that's a big number. the border patrol is overburdened. we have an increase in petitions and the bulk of opioids are coming to the southern border. if he sticks to the facts and say democrats supported this in the past and it's only $5 billion. he could make a case. if he were smarter and said also i have a fix for daca

recipients, it would be smart. will he do that? i doubt that his immigration aide that i talk about -- >> you believe he is a one-man wrecking ball. >> here under cuts the president at every turn. if he were not around, they would be more open to striking a deal. he is not going to announce a national emergency. he could mention daca recipients and that could be the news of the night. >> maybe that would be the news of the night, but i don't think that's enough to move the country or move democrats in congress. the bigger question is how he makes this case factually. most of the facts about border security are public facts so easily fact checkable and he doesn't have a good track record. nor does his staff. what he has to answer is why is it an emergency today, but not 18 days ago? this was not the language he was

using even 18 days ago. >> one would argue the address if it should have been on day one. >> right. the other thing to answer is if this is such an emergency y hasn't he spent the money he has been appropriated to build the wall. why isn't there a sense of urgency? because it's not true. i think that what the president doesn't understand is the american people are smarter. they called his bluff. he doesn't realize that there are 800,000 people suffering consequences regardless of his political crisis, they are in a personal crisis. >> if they do not essentially agree to open up the government, even if by thursday they can't get the paychecks out on friday and we haven't talked about the contractors who won't be paid at all, don't assume a defense guy.

that's the person who can check it. >> the border patrol agents doing the work that is paramount without pay. they are trying to create exceptions here. they're saying we use the resources we have and the usda announced an exception for the performers and politically favored constituency. there is only so much to stretch this out. >> they will run out of money. because the white house orders you to do the refunds doesn't mean the physical bodies of people. >> i have been through government shutdowns going all the way back between the fights of bill clinton and newt gingrich, i have done this in the 90s. i was one of those federal employees that went without a paycheck. i was in my early 20s and didn't have responsibilities with children at that point. there are people who are supporting families and are depending on paying for drugs or child care or therapy going

without because of what the president is doing. on your point on how they are making exceptions in certain cases, having been through shutdowns, they fell into this. they didn't plan for this. for the shutdowns i have been through, we planned months in advance and we knew how much money we had and how it was going to be spent and the cascading effect. we briefed on that well in advance so there were no surprises. >> i don't think it's yet a huge issue for the american public because it's a partial shut down. if it continues for another three or four days, it becomes an issue. going back to the border, i think they have tested using the money that has been allocate and different models of fencing for the southern wall. throughout the two years, he has been uk talking about border fencing. i think he has the arguments even from the experts.

even the border patrol chief from the obama administration said border fencing works if it's factual. we can start. >> there is probably 15 democratic senators willing to vote for fencing. >> that's where he can make a point. he has a beef with the fact that congressman dated he carry outlaws without giving him enough resources to do so. president obama had the same issue with deportations and he did the actions that got halted by the courts. he hasn't quite made the argument. >> if he doesn't it eloquently and factually. all of those things. we will watch at 9:00 p.m. tonight. stick around. up ahead. to say democrats are skeptical would be an under statement. we will talk to sheldon whitehouse ahead. to sheldon whitehouse ahead ng the future. ( ♪ ) so, every day, we put our latest technology

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news. we uh the shut down lasts at least until 3:00 p.m. tomorrow. the white house just extended another meeting in the white house situation room for tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. we know the shut down goes at least until 3:00 p.m. tomorrow. how will democrats on the hill react to president trump's address tonight? joining me is sheldon whitehouse. you just heard this new. the president is not announcing anything tonight. not a national emergency or a way forward to end the shut down. >> you don't think he is going to come out and -- >> is there anything you want to hear from him? >> to come out and be gracious and say the shut down is causing enormous harm to american families and the economy and he made a mistake by letting his republicans go out and vote for appropriations bills on the

signal he would sign them and cutting the legs out from under them and it's time to behave like a grown up and have sincere negotiations outside of the context of a shut down and work with democrats on a border security package. >> short of that, while you crack yourself up, short of that tonight, is there anything else the president can say in making his case in saying that this border, that there is a crisis on the border. is there anything he can tell you to change your mind on the wall? >> he's got a couple of problems. the first is as stephanie cutter pointed out, if this is a crisis, why wasn't it a crisis 18 days or 18 months ago? it looks like a crisis created for rhetorical purpose and not a real one and doesn't stand up against the opioids crisis or

the hospital infections or the climate crisis as a real crisis. he doesn't have a lot of credibility with anybody who is fact-based on the crisis point. battering democrats with information that they know to be false is also not a very effective strategy. claiming that there are 5,000 terrorists coming across the southern border doesn't really help. finally, he turned the white house into basically a black hole for negotiations where you don't know who can you go to talk to who will be able to close a deal on a number that is constantly moving and with emissaries who are under cut. a lot of those basic problems that is here is my negotiating team. they're authorized to speak for me and i will have their back. here are the facts that we are going forward on. i'm going to move towards a

compromise rather than further out in the feels of bluster. >> i want to get your reaction to what joe manchin said about the emergency when it comes to the shut down. i'm curious about your reaction. take a listen. >> if the president declare an emergency, he has a right to do that. it will probably go to the courts and be contested. if that gets us out of a shut down, so be it. i want out of the shut down. >> do you concur if he wants to go down this national emergency road, you probably feel similarly about the fight he will face probably a bit uphill? would you take that in exchange for opening up the government at this point? >> i think the two likliest scenarios are that the pressure on republican senators builds to the point where they realize they have to end the shut down and cannot follow the president down this increasingly dangerous rat hole indefinitely. that will probably take another

week. there will be a lot of pain and confusion. the other is for the president to say i'm opening up the government and going the national emergency route and thankfully the government is open again and we can argue about the emergency designation. it falls apart over the constitutional distinction between the power of the purse being in congress's hands and not the president's. the fact that there simply is not a predicate for the emergency declaration. so i suspect that that is not successful, but if a failed effort that gets corrected by courts is the way we get out of what is now an international embarrassment for our country, so be it. >> when you look at the appropriations made by richard shelby in the letter and separate out their ask for money and the physical barrier, it seems as though everything else is something both parties agree on. whether it's increasing the

number of detention beds if necessary. increasing the fencing if necessary and a lot of different technology in order to snuff out hidden drugs in vehicles and things like that. at what point do a bunch of you senators come up with a gang of eight or gang of 14 or not a full solution for good, but to this? how come we have not seen any of that action yet? >> for the moment, the republican senators are stymied by fear of the tweets of the donald. i do think that the pressure is building underneath them and it is not a sustainable position for them to be in to follow him endlessly into this shut down madness. at some point i do think they break and when they do they come to mitch mcconnell and may come

to some democrats and something begins to move, but for now, i think the incapacity of the white house at conducting negotiations and sticking with the position and the fact that republicans are held in place by the threats of trump to go after them with his tweets keep that from happening. that is a like lly way for it t come to a solution. it requires senators to move and they have gone to ground. >> kudos to you for finishing your answer with whatever that was happening on constitution avenue there. >> sirens going by. >> let me ask you, do you wish they would have taken the $2.5 billion when pence -- if that deal was real and know you had your caveat at the beginning and you are not sure who to believe,

but if that deal were on the table, should democrats have said fine, let's go? >> i don't think there was enough there to take, but just because it hasn't been shaped into something that you can look at and agree to. if you look at the $1.3 billion that he hasn't yet spent onrder what he rejected for further enhanced security, you are at $2.9 billion. when they come in talking about 2.5 or 2.6, that's the zone in which you expect a conversation to traditionally take place and it's a doorway to a path to a solution. then the president blows up his own people and under cuts and disavows what he told to his own republicans and the whole thing falls apart. it's hard to see how that was really going to work. in a different world with a different president, that would have been the way it was solved.

>> at a minimum, you outlined the various exit ramps that exist. we will see if somebody chooses to take one of those ramps. >> let's hope. see that the president doesn't blow it up. >> we'll see. democrat from rhode island, thanks for dealing with what was in your ear. i heard it and it wasn't easy to hear. >> you bet. >> when is a national emergency truly a national emergency? the president could declare one over the border wall. can congress do anything about it? & he's got wide feet. & with edge-to-edge intelligence you've got near real time inventory updates. & he'll find the same shoes in your store that he found online he'll be one happy, very forgetful wide footed customer. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & if your customer also forgets socks! & you could send him a coupon for that item.

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>> welcome back. the earlier sirens were there for my obsession. i'm obsessed with the debate of whether president trump can declare a national emergency to build this border wall. congress passed the national emergencies act of 1974 to give presidents special powers at a time of a crisis. you might be surprised to learn, because we certainly were, a national emergency has been declared by a president 57 times and you might be even more surprised to learn again, we certainly were, that right now as we speak, there are 31 ongoing national emergencies. 31! that's stressful. three of them were declared by president trump. one block the property of persons involved in human rights

abuse or corruption. another imposing sanctions in the event of foreign interference in a united states election. you can't make these up. block property of certain persons contributing to the situation? nicaragua. in addition those three national emergencies, there 11 current emergencies that were declared by president obama. 10 that were declared by george w. bush. six still active declared by bill clinton and believe it or not, 1 that is active declared by president jimmy carter against iran in november of 1979. you might have an idea of what topic that's about. unlike those events, the current national emergency comes because the president can't convince congress to fund a wall he can't convince the public to support. hence the emergency. it's not at all clear that emergency wall funding won't get bottled up in court. what is clear is rather than

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the white house said they're declaring a national emergency to build a border wall. can congress do anything to stop him? with me on the phone is bob bauer during the obama skplagz is a law professor at nyu. bob, you are our expert here. explain how the emergencies act in your mind was meant to be interpreted by the office of the presidency. >> meant to be interpreted by the office of the presidency, it may be that donald trump suggests that his lawyers

interpreted it expansively and not congress's intention. congress enacted this statute to give the president the authority to declare an emergency where one exists. nothing suggests that his discretion exists so far as to declare as he sees fit any set of conditions to be a national emergency. there has to be a national emergency that he declares to access these authorities. >> who is the -- isn't that subjective in and of itself? one person's emergency is another person's -- well, it's a pain, but not an emergency. i don't mean to be that, but it seems subjective. >> you put your finger on a point. the president would need a significant amount of deference and they can permeate emergency that is the president declared.

however donald trump hits on everything that a president can possibly do to undermine his position that he is declaring a true national emergency within the meaning of the statute. he said that the wall is mostly built and it has been successful by huge percentages making the problem he believes to have been created contained and at the same time in describing the threat, he made statements about human trafficking or the flow of drugs or the influx of terrorists that are contrary to facts and refuted by his own state department. in those circumstances, i think this president would have enormous difficulty sustaining the view that he was within the meaning of the statute declaring a true national emergency. if he can't do that, he can't free up the money for the believe of his wall.

>> what's interesting is itd want to get your reaction to this. john cornyn today basically presented a picture of what life would look like if the president did do this. take a listen. >> he wouldn't be the first president to declare a national emergency, but it would probably result in a lawsuit and it would be tied up for months if not years before it would be resolved by the supreme court. this just adds another new element of complexity to an already complicated situation. >> listening to bob bauer lay out the way you could fight this emergency in court coupled with the political concern, i think we now know why the president is not declaring anything tonight. >> you don't want to do it through a national emergency. however having said that, if you were to do it through a national

declaration, he has to work through a national act to identify the power that you have to do it. then you have to look at the immigration and nationality act. when you look at the ina, it does have a section on emergency powers that are very broad. and those powers were validated by the supreme court when they validated the travel ban. the question is i don't think can he declare an emergency. i think he can. once you declare an emergency, can you use that to take money away from other agencies? i think that's the key question. i don't know. >> that's right. that's where the constitutional question comes in. the national emergencies act of 1976 is very broad. you read the congressional description of it and the president can declare martial law and control the means of production.

when you talk about taking morny rejection, the president has the power of the purse. >> to pick up on something that bob said earlier that the president's own words and actions have created a record here that would prove to be problematic legally. >> it didn't cost him the travel ban and a lot of us thought it would. >> they did and they managed to operate out those comments and it did require them to make a substantive case and a narrowly tailored rule of law. to implement and for it to pass through the courts. i think that unless there is significant work being done in the white house that nobody is aware of, i think that's probably not happening. there is not a factual basis for a state of emergency even if you are talking about opioids or drugs. immigration and naturalization service. border patrol.

that comes through legal entry. legal ports of entry. >> at the end, it's a legal question and ends up in the supreme court. >> bob, stephanie just triggered this. what if he said the crisis is about drugs and opioids coming over. >> he started to do that. >> here uses that as the gateway to going and declaring his national emergency on that and trying to use that power and base the wall there. or does that even matter if he goes down that road? >> in my judgment, his case is compromised on this and other reasons he has given. i want to mention about the surrounding circumstances to which the courts will look when he is declaring the emergency. it has become clear and one of his tweets reflect this.

this is just another tool that he is trying to use to win a fight with congress that he has not been so far able to win. he said well, we will do this any way we can and went first to the shut down and he is considering the national emergency. all of that would suggest to the court that what he is dealing with is not the public interest that is protected by the declaration of a national emergency, but he is motivated by a desire to solve a political problem. once again, his own words and tweet after tweet and statement after statement i think has caused harm to his legal case. >> bob bauer, i appreciate you lending your legal expertise to us. if he does it, we are going to be in the courts. i think we know that. panel, you have to stick around. up ahead, 2020 vision time and beto's big adventure. the former texas congressman is heading out on a road trip and may not go to primary states are

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you go, but you are going to run for president, right? >> what better way to mull that over. texas congressman beto o'rourke is eying a solo road trip. no staff, before a potential presidential bit. it ams can as a draft beto group hiring early state staff and pledging to raise a million dollars for a potential campaign. >> could i get a number one with cheese. the meal with a coke to drink. >> o'rourke could document his trip on social media, something he did quite often in a senate campaign. and on an earlier political road trip with texas republican congressman will herd. >> we want to take your requests. we are going to play music and enjoy the road and stop for a cup of coffee and a snack soon.

>> a source sold us o'rourke's decision won't come until february at the soonest, but that's a fairly erm tiarly time. beto, give us at least six weeks to use it. we will be back with more after this. we will be back with more after this little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats moderate to severe plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla,75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.

we know that when you're spending time with the grandkids every minute counts. and you don't have time for a cracked windshield. that's why we show you exactly when we'll be there. saving you time, so you can keep saving the world. >> kids: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ tonight in "the lid" an epic technology fail. paul manafort's attorney submitted a filing today in response to accusations by robert mueller's investigators that manafort lied to them. the attorneys tried to redact some items they suspect are still under investigation by the special counsel. well, you can see those passages covered with the familiar black ink. but copy and paste those covered passages in the a blank e-mail or word document and you get to see exactly what the lawyers were trying to keep redacted. paul manafort is only hiring the best lawyers. and that includes allegations by the special counsel that

manafort lied about sharing campaign polling data with konstantin kilimnik, who the fbi says is still connected to the russian intelligence agencies that he supposedly still worked for. the panel is back. sahil, by the way, if it's not my mistake, like, paul manafort's entire -- he has created a litany of basically stupid word errors. i believe he got caught talking to kilimnik because he was, like, track changes -- the guy needs to learn to use microsoft word, doesn't he? >> this is the latest in an enormous web of connections we've seen between paul manafort and russian officials, whether they were in russia or whether they be in ukraine. >> what's amazing about this redaction is what we learned in it he was sharing information with kilimnik. all of it could be that maybe he felt that he owed him and all this stuff. it's not damning at all to the president, but, boy, it's certainly more damning to the

president. >> it hurts manafort. >> who is he lying to? >> what information was he sharing polling? does that prove collusion? of course not. so i think, again, it hurts manafort. i just don't see how it in any way proves the case there was some sort of conspiracy. >> why was he sharing this information? what does he have to hide about it? >> he's running a campaign just like he would share with other friends, other colleagues, to talk about the polling. >> happened to be a russian agent. that's not a small thing. >> well, i mean, but it's polling. if it leads to somehow strategizing to disrupt hillary's campaign -- >> you know, having been on presidential campaigns, polling is a prized possession and there are very few people who have actual access to the internal polling. so the fact that he's sharing that with a russian agent is a pretty big deal. i agree with you, it doesn't prove collusion all the way to trump, but i think it's just another indication that there is

a big problem here and that mueller knows a lot more than anybody else does right now. >> well, this goes back -- look, this filing, sahil, is about obviously manafort is trying to say we have been cooperating with you. don't think this is all about fight, you know, whether mueller wants to tear up the cooperation agreement and basically shove him in jail. this filing also seems to describe that mr. manafort -- that confinement is harming mr. manafort's health. >> this comes around the same time a doj indictment of a russian lawyer where manafort was at the time. two people of potential interest, don jr., jared kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser. where is all of this going? >> but it's something unrelated. >> the russian lawyer. yes, it is something unrelated. a five-year-old investigation. >> but, again, i keep seeing unrelated the things. so, yes -- >> we don't know how all of these things connect. >> we're going to have to wait. >> we don't. >> at the end of the day, we will. >> in june, we'll know.

>> what is fascinating, for what it's worth, given the fact that mueller's been put on the back burner, oh, by the way, the matis resignation has been put on the back burner. the president had a horrendous last two weeks of december. the shutdown and the wall fight have covered up 2 of 3 of those problems. but us not talking about mueller and mattis, that's good for him, isn't it? >> absolutely. look, i think there is a way out. if he declares a state of emergency, there may be funds that he can get from other agencies that don't require reprogramming from congress, and i wonder if they had done that homework. there were rumors that they were doing that work. >> mick mulvaney said to me on sunday that they -- he's still searching for money in the budget. obviously still omb director. >> money that has been appropriated in a way that is so general that he could take away from defense or homeland security. so i wonder if that's the strategy. >> there's opposition to that among republicans.

you mentioned mack thornberry. >> right. >> i think he's opposed to that. mark meadows, by the way, the ultra conservative in the house freedom caucus, an ally of president trump, told my colleague that he's skeptical that he's not fond of declaring a national emergency. he thinks it should be a last resort. he still prefers there be a congressional solution at this point. >> i would assume that small government people should be shared -- i mean rand paul and the libertarian wing of the gop, stephanie, national emergency being declared willy-nilly is something that drives big government. >> it creates a very dangerous precedent for what's to come. and i also think that we have to remember that for every taxpayer dollar that the federal government spends, there is a constituency that relies on that dollar. there is not $5 billion worth of money hanging around to put towards this wall. there's also not a willingness, even amongst republicans in the senate, to want to find that money and put it towards the wall. so -- >> is there a point, stephanie,

where democrats -- >> going to get in the way at every turn. >> is there a point where democrats say, look, we'll help republicans get out of this because we've got to open up the government, even though we don't want to deal with the president? >> remember, they did vote on a bipartisan bill where they were trying to help them get out of it. on the house side, nancy pelosi has a very smart strategy. let's call a bunch of votes on opening specific sections of the government. i think those votes are going to get harder and harder to take. >> it's going to be interesting to see when they get republicans if they start voting for those bills. thank you very much. we'll be right back. u very . we'll be right back. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

[indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪

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well, that's all i have for this hour, but, boy, do we have a lot more throughout the rest of this evening. i'll have more tomorrow on "mtp daily," but it's "the beat" with ari melber that starts right now. good evening, ari. >> good evening, chuck. a big night. buckle up, everybody. >> you got it. >> see you soon. let me tell you some of the top stories this morning. one, federal prosecutors indicted the infamous russian lawyer from that trump tower meeting. paul manafort committed a new crime by lying about his leaks to a russian operative during the 2016 campaign. and three, president donald trump giving his first oval office address as president tonight about the shutdown. we're covering each story, beginning with these major developments in the russia probe. we all know why this paul manafort news matters. there was no greater campaign source for bob mueller to flip than former trump campaignir