front of you, go through it, go over it, go around it but get to the other side of that wall. >> that is a clip of donald trump giving a commencement address in 2004 talking about walls and getting around them. "the daily show" dug that up last night. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." i'm willie geist alongside katty kay, msnbc contributor mike barnicle, donny deutsch with is with us, heidi pryzbyla and wearing of outstanding zip-up sweater, michael steele. joe and mika are on assignment. we're at the point where the coast guard is telling people to look into baby-sitting jobs and

have yard sales because of the shutdown. >> that's what we've will be reduced to. who invited him to give a commencement speech? >> that was in 2004, some time ago. president trump is scheduled to advice eight border patrol station in texas today, despite his reported misgivings about that trip. he told a group of television anchors, quote, it's not going to change a damn thing but i'm still going." the president told people he abruptly ended a white house meeting. >> this situation could be solved in a 45-minute meeting. i have invited congressional leadership to the white house tomorrow to get this done. >> we saw a temper tantrum.

he didn't get his way and he walked out of the room. >> he brought candy. >> he brought candy. >> schumer continued to raise his voice. >> they said why don't do you that? we'll continue to discuss. we're willing to discuss anything. >> the democratic leaders are unwilling to even negotiate. >> and he said if i open up the government, you won't do what i want. >> the president then turned the speaker and politely asked her, okay, nancy, if we open the government up, in 30 days could we have border security? she raised her hand and said, no, not at all. >> he asked speaker pelosi, will you agree to my wall? she said no. >> the president calmly said i

guess you're still not willing to deal with the problem. >> a few minutes later, he slammed the table -- >> leader pelosi said she didn't agree with the wall, he just walked out and said we have nothing to discussion discussed. he said it was a waste of his time. >> the president admitted he used those words tweeting "just left a meeting with chuck and nancy, quote, total waste of time." that's the president tweeting as he walked out of the room. next saturday will be the longest shutdown of the federal government in the american history. boy, as you watched the congress people come out of that meeting yesterday, watched people talk from the house and the senate.

>> governments are trying to make this about the shutdown and the harm it's causing. i spoke to a federal worker yesterday who said she has a mortgage payment coming due of $3,000, a car loan payment coming due this weekend. she cannot make those payments and she's not allowed under federal law to go out and get another job. she would face of risk of getting tired from her actual job. they are in a real bindand i don't see any signs yesterday that the government is prepared to shift, that the president is a way to shift.

maybe declaring an emergency is his off ramp for this. >> 24 hours ago we were talking about the possibility of him declaring a national emergency. here's what the president said yesterday before his meeting with congressional leaders collapsed. >> i may go that route. i have the absolute right to do national emergency if i want. my threshold will be in i can't pak is to have the government declare a funding emergency while at the same time agree to sign a spending bill to reopen the government. prum would be able to sell supporters he did everything he could to build the wall.

several republican senators voicing skepticism about that idea. >> i can tell you that for people on my side of the aisle, one of the concerns we should have is if today the national emergency is border security, tomorrow the national security emergency might be climate change. so let seize the fossil fuel plans or something. >> to repurpose almost $6 billion out of the defense department that is needed for defense needs and use it to build a border wall without congressional authorization is not what i think is intended by the najs? nancy pelosi and chuck schumer have shown no willingness to budge, nor do democrats believe they should budge.

if they don't, are we going to national emergency here? >> they won't. i don't see anything ni wiggle room for nancy pelosi or chuck schumer to go back inside the white house, he's's $2 billion or 3 pl this idea of a national emergency while he tinker toyed around with it, he said i may. he throughoutly wants to do it. he'll throw it into the courts, let them work it out. he side i did everything, i got the money for the wall, we're going to start building the wall. and then six months, eight months, whatever time afraid is there to move out. there will be other emergencies that will be manufactured and put on table for the house, the.

>> i couldn't figure out why he went on the air the other night. i asked the people. i went down to the border. i had these meetings. he loves a pardon, anything he can do with a pure executive order. the democrats are going to take it to the courts so i can't keep the government open. the democrats' argument has to become more nuanced because he do the not have the right to take $5 billion without congress. we he will absolutely -- it's unkwif call. no other way oat.

the ratings the other night, pelosi and shum are outrated trump afterwards. truman and roadfully aren't the greatest thing there. >> at first i said what, what, what be certainly know the 8% or 9 kpr. >> republicans are staping to we've got o figure out how to get these people paid to end the

shutdown. even congress republicans or congressional blix doesn't make sense. >> there have been studies shown that a lot of the people who are being affected by the shutdown don't live in washington, d.c. 79% of federal workers live outside washington, d.c. many of them are their constituents. and, yes, they're hearing from them because people don't understand how broad the effects of this are until the government actually shuts down and you have everything from border officials, tsa officials down to the most intess teen, fewing cl so those senators, just look at that list of 2017 senators. six of them who are going to be up and that is where you're going to see the breaking point.

mcconnell note pli was absolutely silent in that meeting. >> the american people are so much smarter than their elected representatives. why would they call him? they stand there at mutes from the south and senate, most of them. we show these clips of day and talk about the wall every day. but the real danger here is you mentioned the word autocracy, which is defined by one person who possesses singular power by any person in the government. donald trump has single handedly over the past two years.

ity has in damaging most of those institutions. >> and the question is isn't about a wall. it's about the united states of america. how long can we survive the ought democraticndcys, one man, who is, this is a self-described, self-induced crisis that the president himself has created. he has talked about a naj emergency. when the national emergency swip swipes, they cite democratic

congressional officials and a white house official meeting. "you are losing people as leverage. why won't you open the stop and stop hurting people, then you wouldn't give me what i want. >> as we mentioned, real word impact to this, ut down they have been holding -- >> sell your stuff. >> right. >> suggestion part of a five-page kick side that suggests dog walking, tutoring or becoming a mystery shopper. the coast guard removed the tip sheet. meanwhile the fd an has

suspended most food facility con elections. it makes up only 31% of total demanding inspections temperature and tomorrow is the day that some people will go without paycheck because of of the shutdown. >> fancy had a quo for did has not been easy for me. >> federal works are will not be afg their is their red it regarding, maying, the president seems to be insensitive for that. they think maybe they can just ask your father for more money, but they can't. they candidate. a "new york times" investigation found trump received at least $413 millions in as ittes in the 1990s when

his businesses were struggling. in 2015, then candidate saturday about you this he kol i started off in brookline a million dollars. i came inwith at florida this is not a game. this is real now fora lot of people. sometimes they talk about it like it's a political game but there are people who are it not receive thereof -- that is so stunning that the individuals we call leader in washington the so people are going to have to suffer essentially until i get there essentially.

it's high position on the house of the republican party because we're the governing majority. we don't the house. you had the opportunity to dithese are or kit these are real keem who cannot go b their daily lafs because they have to figure out how they're going to put food on the table, pay their bills and keep their homes. this falls at the seat of the republican party. up could have asoudin prrm and yet for some voight persian gulf permanent form not motives based

on the country's needs but his own personal, political needs. here we are. so next week it gets tougher and tougher with each passing day and hour of this. >> molly: willie, this gets harders for families in america. it's the kids, yes, but donald trump is far reaching. he showed his tiny yik for like that little, whack kit or he wanted to play worse so you thout u impoe tents ant can't even the hook he ask thes on.

it was number one, come in, try to be charming. bring whatever the candy was. say now you're going to give me my wall. pliby space in the negotiation. y had this could in. >> mike, in the schoolyard, what would you say to them? >> give me your lunch! >> and nancy pelosi and chuck schumer haven't shown a willingness to budge an inch, nor should they. at some point the more people out of work, this can get ugly. >> and there's been a 10% jump

in blaming republicans. >> still up, amid the. and bob mule are may be ramping up the russia probe. we'll splin that. but first, bill careors and look at the forecast. >> the cold has aroofed and the snow will follow this weekend. we're looking at a snowstorm from solution to washington, d.c. the detals on the cold, bundle up this morning yosh and the ki it wind chill in a normally would expire. the south is also chilly but it's still in the 50s today. no travel issues unless you're lake traf that's six sid.

looks like southern portions of the high owe valley, indiana and o ohio areas and the fountains of open to exchins b.d. zts just enough again that snop that is going to tn through saturday night, fin tn on f looks like our big's snow if you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ snlt ight back. ♪ ♪ snlt liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. great news for anyone wh- uh uh - i'm the one who delivers the news around here. ♪

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joe." in the coming weeks, deputy attorney general rod rosenstein is expected to leave the justice department. a source tells nbc news he plans to step down after robert mueller's investigative and prosecutorial work is complete. that would mean roseteen it will here and rosen stein lickly will be gob given them but walker pants to trn out a new attorney general general. meanwhile, the white house is hiring more lawyers. "the washington post" reporting that new white house counsel pat

chip lonie with topics ranges from the wigs' policies to the vnl un. >> immediately i seekd to on it and a copy of mueller's resist continuing describings. meanwhile, rudy giuliani, one of trump's personal attorneys, said the president's lawyers have made clear to justice department officials. they want to see mueller's decot ply at that point we can got the there, but the dough which the property ordered to be turned over to congress in and giuliani

has reportedly said a couple basing prng to be pore hsk been to do, coming out stronger than yesterday. >> i think of all of the changes in terms of the mueller investigation, its scope, its budget and when we will see it. the chances of it going to congress and not being leaked to the american public is slim it moment and democrats have every interest in getting that out. i agree with it. the dynamic and my owner, rod

rosenstein rose stein. he is perhaps one of the few people, you would not are in the than most, one of the pew who are about to leave the administration with his character, integrity, his reputation still solidly in fact. because he has really been the bulwark and the wuf sorry terms of trying to fbi. but of that is he was getting a message from the department of jj and from rose enstein that he was going to stand strong. i do think you're going to see a trend here many some of these administration officials being willing to seasoned a mess and to those is not wellnd a so

there's a forethat you brock yesterday, heighty, that steve the beautiful trech yangss on rauf a. >> there been sop a helpable. er that tall he's going to be a nuclear of nen, one payment at a too many. . that means he's sit og on a welt of information because he overseas the financial crime unit. in may the nrm.

maxine water has tried to get merrill lynch into release all kind of money from the unit. on trump, his family, his associate wpdeutsche bank is viewed as another epicenter for information because they haven't caught up in has to money laundering canned salprshl guess what? this didn't there's a lot of information he may be available to provide. >> man uchin was trump's campaign vanless. >> it will always come back hom personal and everything starting

with the russia thing was about was the, it kog $ basically 15 and 15 or 20 guys -- that's all the russians were in there for. simple and his boys were loses and ten days and tens with r to ha hang. that started a clock that give them on 30 days to tack some kind of action. so one of the questions is were you played by the without. oleg dare ask in past saying those details prp but we are

toll that fnl because these are oleg bare scott zprorpgs but in so many ways, o'leg dare pascoe. and the question also is is he going to say i'm spinneding my inveps oversight? are go have obscured in of given less attention to the charges leveled against paul maurt, who has come out a couple of days, which are they are ksh. >> did, all was this.

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joining us now, co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei. the americans crisis are being overlooked. the shutdown will hit its three-weeks tomorrow. >> if you go back to october 16th of last year when the president sent that first tweet about the caravan, you've had the president and the government consumed with one topic.

in that period, if you just want to look at other crisis, there's been almost 600 shootings in chicago, i think 120 people have died. you have the opioid crisis in and during that period we've had a big shift in the apologies. the government, its sin advertised, came out with this devastating report about climate change that shows of every industry could be effected obviously it's in the eye of the defend pb that that is the most

urge urgery sfrorm and feeling the force of his personality throughout the presidency and campaign has taken up a lot of time and space. to what extent does the government appear to work on the problems, like the ones that cheer then out the knight is pfrm is a machine that turns out pa would, in and frchbl and clearly not a fan nauchlt, problems that are more immediate

and problems that are longer term. so do you have those agencies and organizations both inside and outside the government still trying to keep everyone on the hill and around washington and around the country apprised of these problems. so that when we turn our attention to them finally, we can begin to address them and we're not as far behind because we've spent three weeks talking about a made-up crisis at the southern burn laid out. >> and you know, jim, a couple of krings cbo up in view of what you've got on for your one make. this one focus and one individual, dpt, for knowing blp

had nrnl has done to the culture around us, the frrnl it's such an important statement from any president of the united states. he is not taken to the oafal office about two of the most ride range willing, if and shoot shootings which have affected so many lives. parents and young children in school. prp to the expense of our, o, if are foochl on a daily basis the prp yes. there was probably tune it tho

nabl. government still works on other topics but if you think about the opioid crisis are you more likely to die in go look at any small down and pr oo prrj and you this so much politics about be disflurjs obviously it's in the 30 noushlg a.i., look at the of china, whether or not they're getting educated pore lar. there's somer big topics and that's why the presidenter of pred frfrm and let's do emergency power that be this psh

vol sfrrnlt whatever i don't get my way dem clim state it's an elusive definition. >> mime el stee, i'm not coatly convinced that fpt if the government would be dealing with things like the open joyed, crisis and june gun lit. but play out that national emergency scenario for us. what's the time frame in which the government does get back on track? it so stensably starts dealing with all of these issues given and how does it play out the government, which wanting to do wa wael, to deal with the environmental crisis, to deal with the environmental issues,

to deal with those things that are real individuals affecting nid states and the country has a mole. so the before the, it's lit the prchl and they're going to try to push to the flnl as we soons the prm and it's the bright, shin oog object that des tracts us away from these bigger issues and ishs the work that was given done as a good example, on the crime bill and to try to get some praying in reforming our criminal justice system. that was pun of those moments where the rear kind of stopped by lk frchbs and that's typically not how this from a

lot of has to issues overlap. areaious ablecies hutch get back to stolen about a lot of touk i'm with osco. woond did cash your och krk gem the there. a banner image at the top of the screen read 100 days have past since japz was brutally murder p. the graphic changes to "when one voice is silenced, we all lose. we'll be right back on "morning joe." we'll be right back on "morning joe.

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♪ ♪ that is a beautiful live picture of the white house, the monument and the sunrise there in the backdrop. >> and no snow. >> no snow but that's coming, right? >> we might have a snow day. >> it's a thursday morning here in new york and also in washington, donald trump's campaign manager for 2020 says the shutdown has not negatively impacted the president's reelection chances. he tweeted this, "just received my newest voter score tracking from my team. donald trump has reached his highest national approval rating since i started tracking. the democrats have really made a mistake going with their gut over data." senator elizabeth warren will head to new hampshire this weekend as she continues to weigh whether she will run for president in 2020. she will.

warren is expected to hold events in manchester and concord. the visit marks the massachusetts' senator first time since she announced his explorato exploratory. and cam kamaa is looking to make an official announcement whether she will run later this month around the martin luther king weekend. and in west virginia, richard ojeda is positioning himself to run after announcing his resignation from the state senate yesterday. ojeda promised he would not let his seat sit empty while campaigning for president in early voting states. >> billionaire cal stier announced he not join the pack instead he plans to double down

on his efforts to take down president trump by impeachment. let's assess the early landscape. i remember talking about a year ago to james cargill and he said everybody should jump in the hool. >> i bumped into senator harris two mornings ago and i said you were talking. i said you should go for the big trial. she just smiled. a lot of choose -- what are you laughing about? >> i'm laughing about the idea that she was probably running away from you. >> most people do. >> rudy giuliani was the prohibitive favorite in the republican party. this is going to sort itself out. i do think that the one quality, and this is a trump rerun, that any democratic candidate has to

have have strength. strength comes in many, many different forms. but that is basically his essence. i am strong, i am powerful, i can protect us, i am daddy. so whatever form. it can't be pure intellect, it can't just be charisma, likability. that is the one thing and certainly biden certain kind of strength and cam a but you need to be strong to go at trump . >> a case you've been making of not just your political career but your professional career. >> but that's an argument -- >> is that not a form of strength? >> i get concerned -- this is not the gender issue, i don't think she projects the same strength. this is me as a branded guy liking at people's et, who can

take on drpt and seem toin joy it is joe biden. joe biden takes on trump and he looks like he's having a good time. he's never run against him so all of this can totally change and there are all of the age factors around biden. but if you're just looking at the person who can take him on one-on-one, none of the republican candidates could do it. >> he said when he challenged him to a fight, i'd like to take him out back, and obviously he was saying that tongue in cheek and that is important, somebody who you can get to that point in one form or another. >> joe biden was discounted in the past and we were in a different environment where he's

well, times have changed and if the party is looking for a gray beard, for somebody had then, yeah, he's their guy. i just don't think that this party which the tolling us is going too far to the elizabeth warren is drawing huge audiences in iowa. >> and kamala, she's got that prosecutor's mind. coming up president trump heads to the southern border as shutdown taubes break down completely. jacob soberoff will join us from

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it's up to the democrats as to whether or not we have a shutdown tonight. >> if you want to open the government, you must abandon the

wall. >> but none of that is mexico paying for the wall. >> you and i both know that it cannot work exactly like that. >> the president tweeted on christmas eve, "i'm all alone, poor me." >> i can tell you, it's not going to be open until ne have a wall, a fence, whatever they want to call it. >> they don't want to fight, the democrats, thor the border of our country. >> pelosi is planning to pass a measure on the very first day. >> we're hearing it's nancy pelosi presenting that from happening. >> he tweeted on saturday any deaths are strictly the falt of the democrats. >> nobody wins in a shutdown. we all booze the government has been partially shut down for 11 days now. >> the democrats are looking to 2020. >> a wall is an immortality.

it's not who we are as a nation. >> we have terrorists coming through the southern border. >> today the vice president will host congressional negotiators. >> we have a national emergency. just read the papers. >> stop the tactics, let's negotiate. >> crisis of the heart and a crisis of the soul. >> again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way and he just walked out of the meeting. >> 19 days of the federal shutdown and today is day 20. i'm willie geist along with katty kay. joe and mika are out on assignment. they'll be back tomorrow. heidi pryzbyla, donny deutsch and michael steel with are and

waush etch, a full house this morning. >> obviously i'm the fashion correspondent here. michael steele's red sweater little zipper thing, bold statement. jonathan amir, new hair cut, a lot happening with the men. >> no, no, i'll call it as a see it. and kudos to both of those gentlemen. bold move. >> pushing us all forward. >> you missed my middle part and i'll really offendeoffended. >> you guys are always perfection. thanks for giving. >> president trump is scheduled to visit a border that rel.

>> reporter: we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. >> the president walked into the room and passed out candy. >> i asked him to open up the government, that tomorrow so many people will have trouble paying their mortgages, paying their bills, dealing with situation when is they don't get paid. >> i saw schumer continue to raise his voice. i said why be won't you do that? we're unwilling to discuss anything. >> the democratic leaders are uneven even to lie and turned to the speaker and politely answer htd frm could we have border security? she raised her hand and said,

"no, not at all." >> she asked speaker plosly will you agree to my wall? >> i s ths this he sort of slam the tabland when leader pelosi said she didn't agree with the wall, he just walked out and said we have nothing to discuss. he said it was a in exchange for a butt are finger and a baby ruth. where is this headed right now. the president feels like he can't move och this request for $5.7 billion for the border wall because of the chants he led in 2016 to 2017. where's the movement here, if there is any? >> the starburst allegations fell apart yesterday.

they democrats are sort of boxed in a corner. of course back then it was going to be mexico was going to pay for the wall, which is far less catchy as a crowd chant. there was very little movement yesterday, very little nekt to a deal today inside he was going to stay in washington, no go on mrk as rook trying to implore the democrats to come around it. this week we saw the off the stage craft of going to the corp

ever to the that nancy -- he'll have to declare a mags emergency. that could be something they move to in the coming days to find some sort of money to start border wall protection but he's able to save face a little and "i declare the right to declare a national emergency and i may do it." if you listen, chuck -- giving $5.7 billion. >> they are unmoved and the democrat more generally are far more united on had right now than the republicans are and that is how leader pelosi and

speaker police and sn, that this is not a negotiable aspect of this. think that's perhaps one way that president trump m miscalculated. i think he thought he could pressure democrats to move somewhat on this issue when he doubled down on it with the incoming democratic house coming in. i'm really concerned over the fact that tom 800,000 people, federal workers, are going to miss a paycheck and the effect that that's go they're feel unease about this, try to keet more poptdoesn't support. there is not a crisis at the border.

to the, tent there's a humanitarian crisis, it's due to the pill social many and that himself definition of a national emergency might be it way out. >> yesterday, he came out to the cameras on this issue four times. it does seem he is feeling on the this one. he's increasingly sharing the rhetoric and the blame to democrat, which very different from back in december when he was are pb is that a roo ship of the if a fan. this is dau it. in. i never had any problem babb,

that he would have more leverage come january and pelosi was this deal dlat maker with who he can do business. fine. but she has been abundantly clear that she is not for a wall. after her speaker election, she's still not for the wall. and the white house seemed to think that this position was not sustainable for her but but it's just such a fundamental m miscalculation of where democrats are. it's in the often about the wall. bits the wall as a symbol. now you have jared kushner on capitol hill trying to do a deal wall for something when pelosi keeps saying i'm it's like this white house does not understand, is not taking what they should be taking at case value, wits is

krrs it might work in real estate to walk out of a investigation when it the who can't joe -- they were so announced by. you no. with federal officials i've just been completely stunned by how the white house has handled this. it's been socking to moo and the appropriations committee. senators all good to see you. how does this mean, get our way out of the government shun down. you a know, this is not happening in the be a instruct. the pay chebs will be missed by 800,000 federal workers. hundreds of thousands of contractors depend p pend on the federal government.

chuck schumer, nancy pelosi, your caucus saying no way. how do we get our way out of a shutdown? >> well, i don't expect the president to capitulate but he has to find a way to compromise. there's already bills we passed in the senate near the end of last year. every senator voted to reopen the government until february 8th and we voted another homeland security bill that would give the president another $130 billion, particularly when the i think it's time to start finding a safe wave are building a concrete wall is not an

effective, modern way to secure our country. >> but you just said yourself the president is probably not going to move off of that. he's been promising the wall and if he backs off that, he looks like he's capitulated and given up and lost his bat m what ever that the doesas 800 families all over the country missed that paycheck tomorrow. in church last sunday a friend came up to me and saturday politely i that are pan one suspect lots my og. >> it's with people in law

enforcement temperature. . who will not get paid. i. that would likely get blocked in court and a number of folks are account leading that's really chis beingy for the department of offense to be used as a construction big aid. one positive step forward i think, willie, is new chairman lindsey graham of the judiciary committee and senator tillis joins senator bicker and me. every day that we're talking about this shutdown, we're not talking about the mueller investigation and there have been some development developments in that swegs in the past week. senator may trump, he woon i

wand to open the government, the democrats can't to keep it shut. i want to protect the country and he government want to go d and. there as more than a thousand miles of the border that's private property. >> senator, this is real life stuff. you're now giving kind of very logical, rational but it's in the courts and he has reopened the government aid said the contracts want to keep it shake. you have to make have specific, laider ril watch.

huge ville hugeville a so everybody can get help with this new tax rebill and its refund. i hope it's clear to the american people that contracts want to reopen the government, are voting to reopen the government and are investing in bored are security. what weefr not doing is giving them more than $5 billion for a vanity troj project at the gend. when he rart. >> do you understand what the wall is? >> you order to have a vogs, be, the border 1 $203 long. do you understand specific when

i that whap the president issin asking for in this negotiation snp. >> that's one of the big challenges with negotiating with president trump. a number of folks who claim to represent him, different republicans senators, from called or net with as po when he talked about thus thumb proop flfrmt just to have the president blow it up the next day. his own departing chief of staff john kelly said two weeks ago, oh, we stopped talking about a concrete idea months ago. we're talking about steel slats. >> the next day president trump tweeted, no, no, no, we haven't cleaned up for a con treat cal.

senator, it also means you could offer him a figure leaf, right? because not defining it. give him an figure route there pb and have it be a compromise for us to move forward. he's very difficult and that's why mitch mcconnell is no where to be found. >> confirmation hearings for william barr start shortly. sir, you have met with the attorney general nominee yet? if not, what sort of concerns do you have this is breaking down on party lines? >> i haven't met with him. i have requested a meeting wi

wiwith. 12, "lindsey graham is snchl with the use of presidential pardons who, in particular a memo he sent by rod rosen steep snochlt, who have an unbounded view of the president's ability to fire people at will. i haven't had a chance to schedule a meeting with bill bar or an opportunity to meet with him yet. >> what was going through your

head why the we were in the office office what makes you think it might have any chance now? >> when we introduced it, we were told we'd never get a hearing. we were told we'd never a mark one in then we got a vote and blocked it out of committee is chairman of the judiciary committee yrkt but mitch mcconnell is on your shift. >> i think he'll continue to block it and it will be caddie,

what went my tliter of the pb it advances an important bipartisan took to pron frrchlt trying to end sex slavery and end labor slayry toes as we let you go, want to button up our conversation will the wall. democrats, nancy pelosi, nancy pelosi have been outraged about the idea of a war on the border. she calls it "immoral" to put a vote by many, many democrats. the vote of 80. 19 in the senate, hillary clinton, broke and, yes r, in oa

birrier along the southern border? >> well, vote, that's what i'm. in it and weep should be trying to reach for a bigger solution than that. obviously i wasn't here in 2006 but i would invos to morning in the. . that are cost effective and will help the problem. >> do you think morals are personally against the federal

fl flrm, dividing children from their parents at the border, treating children that violation basic humanitarian principles. that's what i think is being discussed as immoral, some of the broader immigration polic s policies. >> senator, koos for your time. james look like couple of steps back in these negotiations, if we can even call this many that at this point. where is this headed? >> i think according to my conversations with people on the white house, there's only one option and it for the president it to. they're not going to go anywhere this they're inpractical. he's not shown any willingness

to back off and willingness have not shown him an elliott to do. to blame the dem catch being listening before. there is no period to be nrnlt two days ago, his trip had no point but he was going to go anyway. >> nm on that point, trying to create that surgecy, if this goes to a legal fight. this is the kind of fight that the president enjoys having and it ahe?

snochlt then that takes away that platform. we have been talking about the wall for 20 straight days. that in the president's mind is a benefit, it helps with his base. so he f he has the real, i think this is seen as a lot for the kr why were, did not i go their nominate we'll talk to democratic congress pam you're watching "morning joe" we'll be right back. "morning joe" we'll right back i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before.

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joining us, democratic congressman from texas. it's been said there is a national security crisis at our southern border. it's also said there's a humanitarian crisis. are both of those true? >> i agree with the second part. i do think there's a humanitarian crisis. to put it in context, there are 70 million people who are displaced and forced to leave their home. some of them include folks from the northern triangle countries of central america, who are trying to reach the united states. those are us that have gone to the border have seen firsthand the humanitarian crisis. what lowells will tell him on the border, opinion conservatives is that there isn't a national security crisis. these people are not coming to harm americans. they're come because they're play flooeing re violent and

desperation pratt situations money. >> do you agree more broadly that there is a border security. there could be smarter and better security and therefore at least the 1.3 billion being offered by democrats. >> you raise a great question. there's a distinction to be made between a border wall and more border security. democrats very much are willing to compromise on more border security. what we've been against and more americans and most texans are against is a border wall. we want smart, effective security, not a 17th century solution to the challenges we mace request the border. >> the president trump of the nuns p united states has been able to take on details but what would be your response, your elect hif move in the house as

democrats, if he does initiate a nag emergency. >> we will challenge him in every way that we can. we'll challenge him here in congress, we'll kmal ng him in the courts and fro. >> michael steele has a question for you, congressman. >> the politics of this has gotten to the point where it's largely intolerable by both sietds. you have republicans running and hiding, democrats being more bold. but you put all this into the context of an upcoming presidential campaign and all of the other things, mueller investigation. how will democrats in particular try to stay focused on some of these bigger picture issues, like the mueller investigation, like the pin intwirnl committees

and and committees to lorj into the ka about we want to work on things that will create economic prosperity but first we have to open the government. >> i spoke with the southwestern border of sheriffs and he told me while the overall number of crossings is dramatically down over the past decade, there is an increase in families coming through pest.

how big of a problem is this? do we have our hand around the extent to which trafficking and coyotes bringing in children is enough now? >> there is definitely some of that. boy and think the president is using this idea that all of these kids are being trafficked or all of these kids are being abused to say, less less enis ay there is to so, question, it's a legitimate concern that we should be on top of but we shouldn't take those minority of cases and generalize that and

say, wait a minute, let's not let any of these people come in and i mean be considered for asylum and refuge. >> i think you are one minute young are than your worst gener general. >> he's been doing this for months. >> he's got his big thing on saturday and i'm sure we'll talk talk to you about that. >> still ahead refrchb and coming up, we'll be joined by richard trumka, which reap most o t o at fidelity, we help you prepare for the unexpected

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. >> i if you ever really looked at those people, i think they'd say, mr. president, keep going.

this is far more important. >> i can relate and i'm sure that the people that are on the receiving end will make adjustments. they always do. but many of those people that won't be receiving a paycheck, many of those people -- the head of this country's largest federation of unions may disagree with that. joining us, president of the afl-cio, richard trumka. the afl-cio represents most of the federal workers affected by the shutdown, as well as thousands of furloughed contractors. is the president right? are many of the members of your union standing behind him as they miss their paychecks tomorrow? >> not the members that i've talked to and we talked to most of them. look, you can separate these two issues out. every one of my member agrees

that we need to have border security, but none of my members that i'm aware of agree that they should shut down the government and use them as pawns in order to play this political game back and forth. they want politicians to do their job so that my members can do their jobs. >> i just want to jump in, sir, and open this. we have to recognize something that my head's going to explode. he's winning here. you have to understand he's going to open the government, he's going to declare an emergency, send the democrats closed in, he's going to put the democrats into court and what he's done is chipped at our democracy but that's not going to matter. i hope chuck and nancy today you're figuring it out because he's going to win this. this is absurd. i don't know what to do. >> what does it mean "to win this"? >> he's going to say i opened the government, i took control, i put back to work, i made it

suffer safer. >> are millions of americans that are losing because he fomented this situation. we could very easily end this shutdown and that's what we're asking everybody to do. >> he's going to do it. >> we want congress to do their job, the president to do his job so that my members can do their jobs and the american public can actually be served as they rightfully deserve. >> richie, let me ask you a wider scope question here and it has to do with your background, your lifelong allegiance in belonging to a union. the role of unions in this country has been seriously diminished over the last ten or 15 years and that role is protecting and enhancing and advocating for workers, to protect their pay, to protect their jobs, to help them get pay raises. what is the immediate future, the next two or three years for

the role of unions in this country that has been so seriously diminished? >> it's really brighter than it's ever been. if you look at the last would you mean years, we actually organized over a half million people, new members, plus members, over the last two years when you add them together. last year there was more collective action in this country in this country than we've seen for years. you saw at that teachers come together, you saw students come together, you saw the me-too movement, black lives matter. everyone is coming together. a study at mit said half of the non-union workers right now said they would join a union tomorrow. we hope to give them the union so much they can make this work for everybody. so the future of workers and their movement and a stronger voice on the job has never been brighter in my 50 years in the

labor movement. >> workers are about to miss their first paycheck and if the shut down continues, there could be more missed. what story are you hearing about workers about the money missing but also what can you do to lobby representatives on both sides of the aisle to right to return that money when the government does in fact eventually reopen? >> first of all, there are two categories are workers. there are direct employees and that's about 800,000 of them. and eye so we're really disrespecting our veterans. but you also have subcontractors. so you have a person like lisa earl, who is a cafeteria worker at the smithsonian. she served millions of people food at the smithsonian.

she, like 500 of her co-workers, is out of work. and she won't get pay. her health insurance is about to expire. she's worried if her kids or grand kids or she goes of gets sick, she could be homeless in the process of this. >> we filed a lay, we're having a massive rally outside the afl-cio starting at noon. everybody is invited to come and stand with the federal workers, to let them know that we want congress and the president to do their job so that our members can do our job. we'll do everything in our power to help them get back pay but they're still struggling in the interim. when somebody doesn't have a paycheck and you have to travel to work, you need gas money. you need money to park with, you need all of those things and a lot of that money is running

short and our members are hurting. so we're trying to help them every way possible, including monetarily helping them. >> mr. trumka, could you clarify the position of workers in terms of trying to get other employment child mayor furloughed or at home with no pay at the time member. >> hein see told -- i asked a worker why she didn't get another job and she said she wasn't alone to and she went to the bank and they said this doesn't qualify as a loan situation. what can workers do to bridge the gap? >> in some states they're eligible for emergency benefits. remember now, there's also a group of people here, 420,000

that are working but they're not getting paid. so they can't go get another job. it's kind of difficult for people to try to get another job and for somebody to hire you when you don't know when you're going to leave and go back to your original job. so we're trying to provide a series of benefits. we have a group called union privilege, one of our we provide benefits and we put together a package of benefits that we're trying to get to those members right now and to those subcontractors that won't be eligible for pay if congress does pass back pay in the future. we're helping each other. an example, a man by the name of steve, he's a technician at the nasa space center. he monitors the power grid. he's out. he has two co-workers that have special needs kids and he's trying to help them. but in the meantime, two technicians are doing the work

of what ten used to do and so the missions -- the center's mission and in fact even the international space station is at risk now because they're working shorthanded and having high are stress on the job, two people trying to do what ten did. >> mr. trumka, i am president trump, i hear you and i'm opening the government and that's why we're all chumps. >> i think there is political peril here for the democrats going forward. up until now people are blaming the president and republicans. but this can change. if the president is playing this out, it can get unpredictable and i can see the democrats holding the blame. >> thanks for your time this

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it was just one of the large and destructive wildfires california suffered last year. fema has disbursed in assistance california governor rebuked trump tweeting back that quote, disasters and recovery are no time for politics. one day after he praised the president for his quick response to the tragedy. house speaker nancy pelosi echoing governor newsom calling it an insult to those who lost their lives and their homes. you were on the tripe in november when the president stood next to gavin newsom. >> the president is reviving a deep cut here with going back to the california wildfires and his much criticized assessment of what went wrong there. nancy pelosi hails from california.

that is perhaps some sort of threat with the project. t most of the inaugural speech was very critical of donald trump and said that california would act against him almost as if he saying he would lead the resistance against him. >> so we're talking about an emotional reaction to the president to something he may have heard to the way that nancy pelosi is not giving him what he wants on the border wall, but think about what he's talking about here. he's talking about wildfires. remember yhe talked about rakin the floors of the forest like they do in finland. but 86 people died in the campfire and he's attacking the state of california over that. an odd place to pick a battle.

>> actually it's not. >> i think it is. >> well, i i'll tell you why because i think it relate to what donnie was talking about and has been stressing. donald trump is always looking to position an issue for the win. he doesn't care what the issue is. he doesn't care whether it connects to anything he's doing or plans to do. like you started the conversation, where did this come from? why are we now talking about attacking california for forest fires? well, because this is one more bright shining object, one more distraction point, one more thing that disrupts the process. go back to how this whole thing began before the inauguration. what did bannon and reince priebus tell us? it was going at the institutions, it was going after individuals, it was going after

states, it was going after those things that we consider to be important and vital to the structure of this republic and this is one more example out of the blue that now we're talking about forest fires in california when there are other things that are equally or more important to be discussed. >> it might be even simpler than that. it might come down to the fact that he can be just an empty man, an empty human being with no soul. >> we no that. >> on that note, much more still ahead on "morning joe." we'll go live to the southern border where president trump will visit today. jacob has some exclusive new reporting for us and plus, the trump administration sees a way out of the shutdown and it involves declaring a national emergency. we will ask republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma

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"morning joe" this thursday, january 10th. i'm willie geist. donnie is with us. also national correspondent and political analyst, former chairman of the republican national committee and wearer of outstanding zipup sweaters. michael steele. joe and mika out on assignment and they will be back tomorrow. we've reached the point now where the coast guard is telling its contractors to look into babysitting jobs, to look into dog walking and to have garage sales. that was a posting on one of their websites because of the government shutdown. >> all admirable occupations. i don't know how much they pay by the hour, but that's what we've been reduced to. where, who invited him to gifz a commencement speech? >> that was in 2004.

president trump is scheduled to visit a border patrol station in mcallen texas today. the "new york times" reports he told a group of television anchors it's not going to change a damn thing but i'm still going. the president told the nation on tuesday he is ready to negotiate, but yesterday he abruptly ended a white house meeting. >> this situation could be solved in a 45-minute meeting. i have invited congressional leadership to the white house tomorrow to get this done. >> we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way and he walked out the meeting. >> the president walked into the room and passed out candy. >> i asked him to open up the government, that tomorrow, so many people will have trouble paying their mortgages, payer their bills, dealing with situations when they don't get

paid. >> i saw schumer continue to raise his voice. >> i said why won't you do that? we'll continue to discuss. we're willing to discuss anything. >> the democratic leaders are unwilling to even negotiate. >> and he said you -- if i open up the government, you won't do what i want. >> the president then turned to the speaker. and politely asked her, okay, nancy, if we open the government up, in 30 days could we have border security? she raised her hand and said no, not at all. >> he asked speaker pelosi, will you agree to my wall? she said no. >> the president calmly said, i guess you're still not wanting to deal with the problem. >> and then a few minutes later, he sort of slammed the table. >> i don't -- i don't recall him ever raising his voice or slamming his hand. >> and when leader pelosi said she didn't agree with the wall he just walked out and said we have nothing to discuss.

he said it was a waste of his time. >> and the president admitted that he used those words tweeting quote, just left a meeting with chuck and nancy, a total waste of time. i asked what would have in 30 days if i quickly epithings up. nancy said no, i said bye bye. nothing else works. so that's the president tweeting as he walked out of that meeting. we went through some of the litany of things that people are suffering from. they're going to miss their first paycheck now if we make it to saturday. this will be the longest shutdown of the federal government in american history and if you watch the congress people come out of that meeting yesterday, you watch people talk from the house and the senate it doesn't look like there's an end in sight. >> donald trump is trying to make this about the wall and the two sides are on parallel tracks. i spoke to a fed roll worker out

in california yesterday who says she has a mortgage payment coming due, child care payments, graduate school payments coming due this weekend. she's in a middle class family. they have a 3-year-old kid. she cannot make those payments and she's not allowed to get another job. she's actually not allowed to get another job. they're in a real bind and i don't see any sign from yesterday the democrats are prepared to shift, that the president is prepared to shift and we're looking at the possibility of declaring a national emergency which may be a way out for him. maybe that's his offramp from all of this. you declare an emergency. you appropriate the funds from elsewhere. it gets challenged in the courts but by then maybe he's out of this. >> 24 hours ago we were talking about the possible of him declaring a national emergency.

here's what the president said before his meeting with congressional leaders collapsed. >> i may go that route. i have the absolute right to do national emergency if i want. my threshold will be if i can't make a deal with people that unreasonable. >> the path forward is to have the president declare the national emergency to fund the border wall while at the same time agreeing to sign a spending bill to reopen the government. while it would likely face an immediate legal challenge president trump would be able to tell supporters he did everything he could to build the wall. quote, it will come to this. the question is when. several republican senators though, republican senators, i underline that, voicing skepticism about that idea. >> i can tell you that for people on my side of the aisle, one of the concerns we should have is today the national emergency is border security and

entitled him to go out and do that, we support that and tomorrow the national emergency might be climate change so let's seize fossil fuel plants or something. >> to repurpose funds and use it to build a border wall without congressional authorization is not what i think is intended by the national emergency act. >> do you think this is where we end up nancy pelosi and chuck schumer show no willingness to budge. why should they give president trump what he wants and if they don't are we going to a national emergency here. >> they won't. i don't see any wiggle room for nancy pelosi or chuck schumer to go back into the white house and say here's $2 billion,

$3 billion for the wall. that's just off the table. we are where we are because this is actually where trump wants to be. this idea of the national emergency while he's sort of tipgerred around with it and saying i may, i are the authority to do it, he absolutely wants to do it because it is the only option that he has. he'll throw it into the courts and let them work it out. he'll go to the base and say i got the money for the wall. then six eight months, he will have moved on and there will be other emergencies that will be mafr manufactured and put on the table for the house and the senate and the nation to deal with. we are here because this is where the president wants us to be right now. >> he will absolutely declare an emergency. he's a reality producer and he's producing this. he's like now he gets to say --

i went down to the border. i had these meetings. and it turns -- it's a judo move. he's going to say i opened the government which plays to every autocratic instinct he can. he loves a pardon and he's going to say i opened it and the democrats are going to take it to the courts so i can't protect the country and i can't keep the government open. they say no, no, no, we are going to court because he does not have the right to take $5 billion without congress. it's a very, very different argument. it's unequivocal, there's no other way out and i want to -- it's interesting, a side bar for a second but it's a little interesting funny thing. the ratings the other night, pelosi and schumer outrated trump after wards. the ratings came out. this is fascinating.

schumer and pelosi are not exactly brad and angelina. maybe there's a wear out factor now with trump. is the american public, is even 1% of his base, i know the 8 or 9% that voted against him in the election, getting worn out? >> heidi clearly, republicans on c capitol hill are speaking out. some saying this is getting old, we've got to figure out how to get these people paid. the writing is on the wall that some republicans are saying this doesn't make any sense. we want border security but the way we're going about it isn't working. >> question from the start about the wearout factor among republicans is when are they going to hear it from the polls.

>> there's been studies show that a lot of the people being affected by this shutdown don't live in washington, d.c. many of them are their constituents and yes x they're hearing from them because people don't understand how broad the effects of this are until the government actually shuts down and you have everything affected from all the border officials, tsa officials down to just the most basic necessities including food inspection including now food stamps and nutrition and so those senators and i would look for more of them. look at that list of 2020 senators. there are six of them who are going to be up and that is where you'll see the breaking point. mcconnell was absolutely silent in that meeting. >> one test might be whether they start calling their congressmen as the president asked them to do demanding the wall or they start calling their congressmen asking for the government to be reopened. >> but the american people are

so smart, so much smarter than their elected representatives, why would they call them? they stand there as mutes both in the house and the senate, most of them. we show these clips every day. we had marco rubio on just a few moments ago saying something inane about the wall. but what's going on here, if you really think about it, the real danger here is you mentioned the word autokra si. it's defined as one person who possesses singular power in any government. this man, the president of the united states, donald trump has single handedly over the past two years taken aim at destroying some of the basic institutions of our republic. and he has succeeded thus far in damaging most of those institutions. and the question isn't about the wall. the question is about the

country, the united states of america, and can -- how much longer can we survive the autocratic tendencies of one man, donald trump, who is all about himself, this is not about the wall, this is not about the money, this is a self-described, self-induced crisis that the president himself has created. he has talked about a national emergency. when the national emergency and the crisis, both of them combined is all wrapped up in one individual donald trump. >> still ahead on "morning joe," last week the president trump said he could relate to american workers who were not getting paid because of the shutdown. nancy pelosi not so sure about that and dragged up something from the president's past to make her point. that's ahead. but first, bill karins has a check of the forecast. >> good morning to you. we're getting ready for one of our big snow events of the season. from d.c. all the way back to

st. louis but first off the cold air is in place. it was a big change for areas of the mid-atlantic. a few spots in the low 20s and that will stay with us for at least the next three or four days. a great travel day. no problems whatsoever. rain showers, higher elevations will be getting a little bit of snow in the rockies. snow breaks out friday afternoon, areas around st. louis, central missouri, a little bit of ice storm possible in the ozarks, but look at this bull's eye of snow. this is up to 9 inches of snow. enough to plow and play in and cause trouble on the roads. kansas city you've got that football game on saturday. looks like the snow will be early in the day. maybe only about two inches so really not much of an impact on the game. the snow moves through the mid-atlantic and through west virginia.

washington, d.c. we have you close to 2 to 4 inches of snow right now. richmond on the edge of 4 to 6. for your travel plans on saturday, i-70 is going to be very difficult. that's where we'll see the heaviest snow coming out of st. louis and indianapolis and columbus. rainy weather down to the south and by the time we get to sunday, interstate 64 coming out of the mountains to charlottesville back down toward richmond this could be very difficult travel and we'll watch for delays out of dulles. we'll give you an update tomorrow on those forecast totals as we watch one of our winter storms of the season going from st. louis all the way to the east coast. most of the snow should stay to the south of new york city. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. watching "" we'll be right back. molly: my np spends a lot of time with me and gives me a lot of

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as we mentioned there are real world impacts to this. member of the coast guard who were not payi paid they are holding garage sales. >> sell your furniture. >> suggesting part of a five-page tip sheet giving to coast guard employees that also suggest, babysitting, tutoring or dog walking or becoming a mystery shopper. >> what is a mystery shopper? >> i don't know. >> it removed this from its website after the washington post inquired about that advice. the fda has suspended most food facility insp inspections. it will continue to use high risk inspections and tomorrow is

the day some workers will go without paychecks now because of the shutdown. nancy pelosi had a message about that for the president. >> federal workers will not be receiving their paychecks and what that means in their lives is tragic in terms of their credit rating, paying their rent and their children's tuition. the president seems to be insensitive to that. he thinks maybe they could ask their father for more money but they can't. >> a reference from speaker pelosi there to the money president trump inherited from from his father. he received at least $415 million from his father's real estate empire. most of it from tax dodges when his businesses were struggling. candidate donald trump said this about how he once struggled. >> it's not been easy for me. it has not been easy for me and

i started off in brooklyn. my father gave me a small loan after a million dollars and i had to pay him back with interest. >> so this is not a game. this is raelt now. it's for a lot of people. sometimes in washington they talk about it like it's a political game, who's going to get what out of the deal but there are people suffering, there are people who tomorrow will not receive their federal paycheck. >> yeah, and that's the part that is so stunning that the individuals that we call leaders in washington, the house and the senate and the white house in that last little sound that you have -- reference to the president saying well, you won't give me what i want so people are going to have to suffer essentially. that's where we are. and it's on the house of the republican party because we're the governing majority. we have the senate and the white house. you had the opportunity to avert this disaster, this problem for

those families. these aren't just federal workers, these are our family membe members, our friends, our neighbors, these are people who cannot go about their daily lives because they're going to have figure out how they're going to pay their bills and how they're going to keep their homes. and this falls at the feet of the party, at the republican party. and when you sit this ping-pong back and forth conversation, you could have avoided this. you had a bill that was agreed to. you had the president sign off on it. and yet for some voices that he heard coming at him saying well, your presidency will be endangered if you do this, selfish motives, not -- not motives based on the country's needs but his own personal political needs here we are. so you know, next week it gets tougher and tougher with each passing day and hour of this, willie. this gets harder for families in america and it's not just the

800,000. it's the kids, yes, but it's the businesses that are affected by this. this thing is far reaching and i don't think people really appreciate that part of it. >> donald trump yesterday in one little tiny moment showed his absolute weakness and impotence where in that meeting mr. negotiator just got up and took his basketball home. like that little weak kid in the schoolyard who when you wouldn't play to 11 or you wanted to play another game, i'm going home. he can't even negotiate the one thing he came in on. he can't even negotiate. we are seeing his impotence. >> coming up on "morning joe," bob mueller reportedly may be wrapping up the russia probe and that timing has a direct impact on when rod hosrosenstein will d for the door. we'll explain that next on "morning joe." l explain that nen "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." rod rosenstein is expected to

leave the justice department. a source close to nbc news tells i he plans to step down after mueller's work is complete. while things could change based on unforeseen developments, several legal sources have said they expect mueller to wrap up by mid to late february. once mueller's work is done the special counsel's report to the justice department would follow a few weeks later and rosenstein would be likely gone by then. there's no firm time line and that rosenstein would work out a departure plan once the new attorney general is confirmed. president trump has nominated william barr for the attorney general position. meanwhile the white house is hiring more lawyers. the washington post reporting they've been bracht in to help

with democrats and congress. according to the report some house leaders have vowed to immediately get a copy of mueller's findings but the white house would resist the release of describing confidential communication between the president and his senior aides. rudy giuliani said the president's lawyers have made to justice department officials they want to see the complete report before the department decides what to share with congress. at that time we can decide if we have executive privilege objections to the report. however, legal experts liken mueller's report to the tapes kept by president nixon which is supreme court ordered to be turned over to congress. a lot to sift through there.

>> i think of all of the changes that are happening at the justice department, the overriding question has to be what does this mean in terms of the mueller investigation, its scope and its budget and whether we will see it. there aren't many people in washington who believe we won't eventually see that report even if it's some redacted form. the chances of it going to congress and then not being leaked to the american public is slim at the moment and democrats have every interest in getting this out and they can subpoena it. >> i agree with that there. the dynamic of the democrats controlling the house make it almost impossible that we will not see most of the mueller report. the significant aspect is rod rosenstein. he has had an admirable career and he is perhaps one of the few people, heidi, you would know this better than most, one of the few people who are leaving

the administration or about to leave the administration with his character, his integrity, his reputation still solidly intact. >> i would argue that mattis might be in that category too just because -- you're right there in terms of the trend. he leaves with his reputation intact because he has really been the bull work and the buffer of this investigation. now the president didn't go there in terms of trying to fire anybody, but part of that is because he was getting a message from the department of justice and from rosen stain stein that he was going to stand strong. but i do think you're starting to see a trend here starting with mattis as well as some of these administration officials leaving and actually being willing to send a message to the american people that all is not well, and to share with the american people what their experiences have been in terms of that departure letter. >> coming up on "morning joe" on border wall funding eight house republicans broke ranks with the

president yesterday but congressman tom cole is not one of them. so how does he envision the shutdown ending? he joins us next on "morning joe." he joins us next on "morning joe. this is not a bed.

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i informed my folks to say that we'll build a steel barrier, steel. it will be made out of steel. >> why do you think the democrats would agree to that steel border? >> though don't like concrete so we'll give them steel. steel is fine. steel is actually more expensive than concrete, but it will look beautiful and it's very strong. >> not sure the democrats' quibble is with the building material. that was president trump over the weekend. however nbc news has exclusive reporting out just this morning that the president's steel slat

border wall could be vulnerable. we're joined by jacob at the wall and hans nichols. jacob, i'll start with you. what are you learning about this potential -- the idea of a steel slat border wall. >> reporter: well, as you pointed out, the president is very clear that he wants steel as the material to go across the country as his border wall. steel slats, steel barrier. wul of the models were vulnerable to be breached in some way but we're not seeing what that looks like and we've exclusively obtained images from that breached barrier near san diego and this calls into question the president's long standing insistence that a border wall barrier be inpenetrable. the realities along the border

are far different from that and that steel slab barrier is what you see behind me in south texas. the president may come face to face with this steel slab barrier and may learn that these things can be sliced through with a saw like was done down there in san diego. so just like when the president talks about what life is like along the border and often times it is not based in the realities along the border, yet another reality check for the president about this steel slab barrier that he wants to go along the southern border in this country. >> beyond the theater we'll know from the president down in mcallen later today, what do you expect it to be like down there and how will he be received by the people there? >> well, there will be a lot f of push back from the president and the department of homeland security on the line from both the democrats and other folks opposed to his border wall and i do want to say that the department of homeland security has reached out to us about this

photo in particular and has said that the border wall and border barrier has never meant to stop people entirely from coming into the united states. it's only one element of a larger strategy, but that's not what the president often times says. sometimes when he's on script hi eel say it's one part of a multiprong script, but the president has long made this all about his wall. when he is down here i think he will learn, if me meets with real people on the ground that these border communities are some of the safest communities in the nation. drugs don't flow through areas, they come through legal ports of entry, that ms 13 for instance is a small portion of people that come into this country and the border patrol chief in this sector told me that directly so i'd be curious to know what that border patrol chief tells president trump when he is down here today. but a lot of the things we hear from the president about the

border wall and the life along the border are frankly just not true, not factually accurate and we'll see if that changes with the visit to this sector which by the way, is where more children were separated from their parents. a direct systematic policy by president trump. >> thanks so much this morning. hans, the president will be down in mcallen today. some people have been there for a very long time, american troops laying wire. i know homeland security has asked for an extension to keep the troops down there. >> camp donna, that's where about 2,000 troops spent thanksgiving. it's been rolled up. they were laying a lot of wire. a lot of those troops have been shifted. in texas you have about 600 troops. close to another 600 in arizona. a little over 1,000 in

california. the interesting thing about where he's going is if that was really where he federalized and militarized with that wire. those troops left. so the whole argument that he needed troops, they were there, and they left. he said now the border is secure because of the great military. >> where's the caravan? >> caravans did show up. right? there were a lot of people that ended up inty w-- tijuana. >> they're there for legal asylum. >> they wanted to surrender themselves at ports of entry. so look, i think that picture we just saw, that could change the debate. that's a fascinating picture. that could have some impacts. we'll see whether or not the president is watching and what his response might be. >> there's that famous moment where general mattis was down

there addressing the troops and was asked directly what are we doing here? in the short term he said you're laying wire. >> and general mattis was not long-term not shortly after that. so general mattis is gone. secretary mattis is gone. soon chairman of the joint chiefs, his term expires. he will be gone. hans, if you can explain to us how professional and generally apolitical the inner ring is. what is the reaction, the mood to this constantly being threatened to use the military as political ploys? >> privately you hear misgivings but don't forget that secretary mattis absolutely embraced the mission of sending troops down to the border. now, we don't know whether or not that was an attempt for him to curry favor with the president, but at least publicly he was for it.

he got behind that when he went on that trip there. he didn't know where it ended. it's going to cost close to 130 million to have those troops down there. so the issue is interesting because we don't know how long acting secretary shanahan is going to be acting and we don't know when the transition between millie and dun ford. by schedule it's supposed to be sometime in october. we don't know if that will get moved forward or not. >> the interesting thing about acting secretary shanshanahan, explain that to us. >> he came up bthrough boeing ad when he became acting secretary of defense he was supposed to have certain protocols in place so that he didn't tip the scales toward boeing on any sort of contracting or procurement and that was largely followed, but

he did according to politico and we heard a lot of whispering about this. he was pro boeing. i mean, these are small battles to have to be secretary of defense deciding when and where to deploy troops. if the president asks you to do an unlawful task. >> boeing has had some black eyes as well. so lock heed, f-35, most expensive program in history. cost overruns, et cetera, et cetera. boeing has this retanker, the c-46 also had problems. you want to go down a rabbit hole you can talk pentagon from curement and a couple billion here and there you're talking real money. >> the first defense secretary to come from the private sector. a topic that doesn't get talked about enough is the war in

afghanistan in its 18th year now. we reported earlier from axios, going down the list of things that have been swamped and ignored because of the shutdown and the mueller investigation. what's the plan in the short term and the long-term for afghanistan? how is the defense department looking at that war right now. >> the goal is to get afghan forces more trained so they can do the fighting themselves. the problem with signaling that you might be withdrawing 7,000 u.s. troops and it hasn't really been clear. they've never come out and said we're withdrawing from afghanistan. it's always at the planning stage, but signaling that to the taliban is that you can wait out america. and that's exactly what president trump used against president obama. you know, when you do a surge

and you bring the troops up, and then we were talking about 100,000 troops. the taliban is going to take the summer off. the long-term goal try to get the afghan forces in a position where they can force the taliban to a negotiating table and have a political solution. no one thinks this will be won on the battlefield. 13 american service members died there. last year it was 12 and there's the nato contingency as well. and what do they do when the president decides if he does decide to basically cut that mission in half? >> there's a nato summit in february that i think is going to be interesting. >> the people can wait us out is a lesson people have been learning for sen centuries. we'll discuss the latest

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democrats to reopen the government without new funding for the president's border wall. the treasury department, the irs and other agencies ahead of tax season. three senate republicans said they would vote to reopen the government without the border wall. mcconnell said he would block any measure that does not have the president's approval. the president telling nbc's kacie hunt yesterday his party is unified. >> fake news. i just want to tell you the republicans are totally -- >> joining us now, republican congressman tom cole of oklahoma. congressman, good to have you with us. >> great to be with you. >> i'll put the question to you. we'll been putting to democrats and any elected official who comes on our show the last few days is help us find a way out of this. how do we get those employees paid? they're going to miss a paycheck

tomorrow. shutting the government down over a border wall is not fair, you say, in my opinion, there is a way to do this where both sides can say hey, we quote/unquote won. what is that path forward? >> i think you can hear look at this as a fight to be won, which is i think where we're at now. that's a mistake. we're a problem to be solved. to solve this problem in my view you've got to make it a little bit bigger than it is now. personally, i would add daca to the list of things this group ought to discuss. i would also add in the next few months we've got to deal with both the debt ceiling and we've got to set the spending levels for government or we'll go through a 10% sequester related cut that no republican wants for defense and no democrat wants for domestic program. make it bigger. than deal with multiple issues that you have to deal with anyway and then i think everybody can walk away. there's a bipartisan consensus for daca reform. we all know we don't want to go

through sequester and have unnecessary and, frankly, devastating cuts. if you don't deal with the debt ceiling, you're going to deal with the economic crisis. make it big enough. i think that's the road forward. >> interesting to hear you lead with daca and the mention a couple of times. that's something you're willing to put on the table in exchange for a border wall. >> absolutely. we put it on the table last year. and did exactly that on two different votes. a majority of republicans for each vote. you couldn't get any democratic votes last year. again, if you have a major deal here that's big enough where everybody can point to something that they want, then i think they'd be much more willing to compromise. this is a winners and losers issue and that's not going to work out. >> as a $5.7 billion wall, that physical structure, is that a deal breaker for you? does that have to be in the deal? would you be happy with some democrats and republicans have said, more high-tech border security funding?

>> i think we're slipping here into semantical argument. $5.7 million wouldn't build a wall. >> part of it. >> part of it. >> right. >> frankly, the department of homeland security will tell you in certain places physical barriers make sense. certainly in many places. i think we're at that point that that should be acceptable. i also agree we need to take care of legal status for people here through no fault of their own. give them a path where they've got certainly. as a guy that's been in the budget wars, i can tell you, you have to deal with see quequeste. why not do it all at once? >> there's growing momentum in the white house and those close to the president to declare -- he could declare a national emergency and that could be his way out of this. i'll put it to you bluntly, is that an appropriate use of presidential power? >> it's not the best use of presidential power in my

opinion. what we're doing if we do that is basically punting the responsibility of congress and the president into the courts and saying we can't solve this so you solve it. that's just -- i don't think that's the best way forward. i'd rather get to a deal than continue to fight. do you feel like there are others in your party, republicans, for the most part have been reluctant to buck this president. we saw a few names who said they would vote to reopen the government. do you feel others would agree with you? >> i do think others agree with me. my good friend in the united states senate has talked about something similar. that is make the problem bigger. that is let's solve things we know we'll have to solve anyway in ways everybody can walk away having to achieve something. right now this is pretty a small dispute with big consequences. the president offered to negotiate and literally cut the

difference. that's normally a deal around here. he couldn't get any movement out of democrats. so this is $2.5 billion in a $4 trillion budget. this is more about political theater than consequential policy issues. i think you would be better off putting real issues on the table that people want to solve and they can take some credit for solving. >> you rightly point out that $5.7 billion wouldn't build a wall. can you explain to us what the wall is? because in the letter the president sent to congress, he only outlines about 200 miles of quote/unquote wall. so can you tell us where that wall would be? would it be in new mexico? in arizona? or would you seize land in texas? before congress appropriates money, there has to be specifics. right now, i haven't seen from anyone specifically what the definition of the wall is. >> it tends to be in the eye of

the beholder. enhanced border security. not a wall. i think the best way to proceed frankly and we're not talking about enough money, again, to build a wall. bring the department of homeland security in. they keep lips lists of these . there's needs at legal ports of entry right now. why not do those kinds of things? those things the professionals tell you? you know, use barriers in areas that make sense and avoid this wall debate, which has become really, again, a very toxic discussion by actually doing things the professionals want you to do. >> all right, we'll see if we get any movement today as the president held also to ts to th. congressman cole, thank you. we've got 90 seconds in our show. let's head around the table. mike, what are you looking at today? >> tom cole has a sensible idea here about how to balance the equation in these discussions.

the problem would be he has the president of the united states of his own party that would agree with tom cole right now and change his mind by noon time. >> another brick on democracy is going to be taken out when trump declares a federal emergency. he will have outfoxed the democrats. it's embarrassing. >> i feel my next negotiation is going to involve storming out of the room. >> baby ruth bars. that's a very good bar. >> filed away. i think you'll hear the president inventing the crisis for the pitch for the wall. >> staggering number on where we're headed on detention facilities. he's asking for $4.2 billion for 52,000 beds. we're taking in 2,000 people per day. again, $4.2 billion to make it 52,000 people. >> that's in addition to the 5.7

for the wall. >> correct. >> oh, that's totally separate from the wall. and more than the wall. >> all right, again, the president will be down at the border in mcallen, texas, a short time from now. we'll have full coverage on msnbc. joe and mika back tomorrow a long with senator kamala harris who will be our guest. >> good morning, i'm stephanie ruhle with a lot to cover today starting with bye. after being told once again that specifically his border wall, not everything, but the border wall won't be funded, president trump reportedly storms out of meeting with democratic leaders after just 14 minutes. >> he just got up and said we have nothing to discuss and he just walked out. we saw a temper tantrum. >> any minute now, the president set to depart the white house to visit the border. this comes as paychecks for 800,000 working americans who are caught in the middle won't be delivered.