easy and awesome. that wraps up this hour of "msnbc live" i'll see you tomorrow morning on "today." "andrea mitchell reports" is ready to go. thank you, and right now on "andrea mitchell reports," cracks in the wall. president trump traveling to the border for a photo op with a wall, saying today that his most famous campaign refrain never happened. >> well, during the campaign i would say mexico is going to pay for it. obviously never said this and i never meant they're going to write out a check. >> and we will bring you an nbc news exclusive. that prototype wall with steel slats proposed by the white house can be easily breached. bye-bye. negotiations between democrats and the president come to an abrupt halt after the president walks out and calls the meeting a waste of time.

federal workers do not agree. >> we're not a waste of time. we're people who want to help. >> i had to go out and find another job because unemployment's just not going to cut it. >> we want to work. we're not pawns. we're not bargaining chips. >> coming up, we'll speak to the number two democrat in the senate, dick durbin, who will take us inside the room with the president. and to russia with love. the president's former campaign moneyman and current treasury secretary steve mnuchin gets hauled before congress today to try to explain what a notorious putin oligarch got and why he got a sweet deal on sanctions. >> something just doesn't smell right about this transaction. i would also like to know whether the treasury department and the people that enforce these sanctions were of one mind about this or whether there was internal dissent or opposition to this decision, because it just doesn't quite add up to me.

good day, everyone, i'm andrea mitchell in washington. this is day 20 of the shutdown showdown with no end in sight. president trump is on his way to the texas border at this hour. before he left, still holding occupant the threat of declaring a national emergency to get around congress and pay for his wall. >> i have the absolute right to their a national emergency. the lawyers have so advised me. i haven't done it yet. i may do it. if this doesn't work out, probably i will do it. i would almost say definitely. >> the president also saying today mexico is indirectly paying for the wall through higher tariffs. but that new trade deal with mexico has not yet been approved by congress and the money from tariffs does not go directly to the government anyway. nbc white house correspondent kristen welker joins me now. kristen, let's talk about the shutdown and how they can find a way out of this mess other than

the emergency declaration which would breach all sorts of constitutional requirements and require a court fight for sure. >> that exact question, andrea, was put to the president. was that essentially his only way out at this point? president trump indicating he's not yet ready to declare a national emergency. but he sure made it sound like he's inching closer, andrea. he said his white house counsel has assured him 100%, he said, that he has the authority to do it, essentially to use preexisting funds to order troops to build a border wall a long time u.s. southern border with mexico. as you point of out, andrea, democrats have been very clear. they're prepared to challenge that if president trump takes that action. they see it as presidential overreach and they don't think he has the authority to do that in part because they disagree with his categorization with what happens happening at the border as a crisis. so it is a move that could

potentially be tied up in the courts for quite some time if he did in fact take that action. again, the president saying he's not quite there yet. but it's hard to see how these negotiations move forward when they can't even agree, andrea, on what happened at that meeting yesterday between the president and democratic leaders, and democratic leaders chuck schumer and nancy pelosi say he stormed out of the meeting, he slammed the table. president trump firing back today, saying he doesn't have temper tantrums like the one that leader schumer described that he had yesterday. so that back and forth i think just underscores how far apart these two sides are. president trump not moving away from his demand for money for the border wall, and the democrats not giving an inch, not giving him one dollar, frankly, to fund his border wall. and at stake of course those 800,000 federal employees whose fates are hanging in the balance. tomorrow marks the day that they won't receive a paycheck. i asked the president when does the human pain outweigh this fight.

and he quickly pivoted to the pain of those who have been impacted by what he refers to as illegal immigration. i think it's also notable, andrea, i asked him if the buck stops with him when it comes to this fight. he says the buck stops with everybody. so a real departure from what we have heard from presidents in the past, andrea. >> going back to harry truman, who joined the phrase. democrats don't go to republican luncheons, presidents don't usually go, they send vice presidents. so that was unusual. he went because he wanted to shore up their spine and not have them break away. here is what he said about what some republican senators have been saying. >> we have tremendous unity in the republican party. it's really a beautiful thing to see. i don't think there will be any

breakaway. >> i'm worried about what the end game is. this cannot be allowed to go on forever. >> uh, the meeting with the president? >> mm-hmm. >> i wish we had a little more clear direction as to how we're going to get there. >> you've got at least three women senators that we know of, republican senators, plus cory gardner, who are not happy about this, want some resolution of it. we don't know how many others. what is your take on how serious the situation is up there with republicans wanting a solution? >> i do think it's significant, andrea. president trump today said the republican party has never been more unified over an issue. and yet you are seeing those republicans there, susan collins, lisa murkowski, cory gardner who you cited, up for reelection in 2020, who are saying we want to negotiate, we don't think that this is smart politics. so it's not the media saying it, andrea, it is republican

lawmakers who are essentially starting to break with the president. how long can he hold out? that's the key question here, andrea. and again, that's why it looks like declaring a national emergency may be increasingly likely, andrea. >> thank you, kristen welker. and that of course brings us to the president's claim disputing senate democratic leaders saying that the meeting broke up over the president's walking out, slamming his hand on the table. that was of course denied by the white house. >> we saw a temper tantrum, because he couldn't get his way and he just walked out of the meeting. >> i don't have temper tantrums. i recall don't. >> then a few minutes later he sort of slammed the table. >> i didn't pound on tables. i didn't raise my voice. that was a lie. i very calmly said if you're not going to give us strong borders, bye-bye. i didn't smash the table.

i should have. >> dick durbin was at that meeting, of course. and he is the number two ranking democrat in the senate. what say you? >> i can tell you that halfway through the meeting, which lasted about 17 minutes total, halfway through it, president trump says, i don't know why we're here. they told me i had to do this meeting. we're not getting anywhere with this meeting. so it didn't start off on a very positive note and it went downhill from there to the point where at the 17th minute the president announced this was a waste of time, turned around and left the room. i will tell you it was a disappointment. there are so many lives at stake here, 800,000 federal workers, because of this shutdown the president is so proud of, are going to miss a payday. it's going to create a hardship they should never have to face. >> nancy pelosi said today she thought it was a setup, the whole meeting was held so he could walk out. >> i think so too.

it appears a walkout is part of his meeting strategy. that doesn't bring us to a conclusion or solve the problem we face. >> the vice president pointed out he was speaking quietly and calmly, that he even offered you candy. let's watch. >> well, the president walked into the room, passed out candy. it's true. >> i guess they weren't jelly beans, we've seen that before in meetings from the white house. but candy? >> he came with a handful of candy bars, dumped them in front of chuck schumer and said, i thought you might like these, pass them around the table. that's a fact. but, you know, i don't consider that to be a substantive indication of anything. if we want goodwill, we know how to achieve it, and that is, open the government, stop penalizing these innocent workers, give them their payday that they've worked for and deserve, and provide the protection and security the american people expect from this government.

>> there are some people on the hill in both parties saying, now the only option might be his fallback, which is to declare an emergency. he has broad powers legally to declare an emergency. it will be challenged in court. but while that is happening, you could then go ahead, open the government, maybe he would sign something, maybe mitch mcconnell would bring it to the floor, saying it's not new spending, he's opening the government based on taking the money from the pentagon or elsewhere. >> mitch mcconnell's problem as the republican leader of the senate is that he's worried about the support if he calls a spending bill that reopens the government. that's why the president showed up yesterday as the shutdown cheerleader at the republican lunch, begging republican senators to keep the shutdown going forward. i can tell you from my personal, private conversations with republican senators, they're sick of it. they're embarrassed to face the tsa agents at the airport who are protecting them who are working without pay. they want this to end. the president knows it and so does mitch mcconnell. that's why he refuses to call a bill on the floor.

>> so what is the way out? >> i don't know what the way is at this moment. but i will tell you, a government shutdown cannot be part of the answer. there are plenty of things we can discuss when it comes to border security. democrats support border security. the president has changed his position, as you noted, from previous footage here. this 2,000-mile concrete wall from sea to shining sea paid for by the mexicans, we haven't heard that in a long time, have we? we now hear about steel fencing and how much it will be. we can reach a point once we reopen the government where we have an honest conversation about a stronger border using technology, people, and where necessary, fences. >> we've been reporting exclusively, we'll get you some more pictures of that in a moment, but that the prototype that he is now blaming on previous administrations was actually in 2017, under his watch, at dhs, and that a simple saw could cut through those steel slats. >> well, listen. there isn't a single fence or

wall that you build that can't be overcome with a tunnel or a ladder or some other approach. let's be real about it. that's why we have insisted on the democratic side on being smart when it comes to border security. for example, scanning and x-raying trucks coming into the united states can interdict 90% of the narcotics coming into our country. shouldn't that be one of our highest priorities? we have fewer people who are illegal showing up at the border than at any time in the last 40 or 50 years. dangerous people who want to come in, yes. narcotics, certainly. we're in the midst of the worst drug epidemic in our nation's history. >> what will you do if he declares a national emergency and tries to use pentagon appropriated funds? >> andrea, i really think that raises this to a level of at least constitutional confrontation if not worse. he has to be challenged. to say any president can ignore their statutory authority or the responsibilities to the government and use their power

unilaterally goes way beyond anything this constitution envisioned. it will have to be challenged in court. it should be. >> what about mitch mcconnell? he didn't come to that stakeout outside the white house with his republican colleagues. he has really been out of sight. a speech on the floor, yes, there with the president yesterday. but he's the missing piece of this, is he not? >> he absolutely is. he's waiting for a permission slip from donald trump to exercise his authority as the leader of the senate. that's a first. i have never seen a leader of either body, house or senate, who put themselves in this position where they won't act as they're responsible for acting under the discussion. we believe, i believe, that when a bill, a spending bill which received over 90 votes on the floor is vetoed by the president, that veto will be overridden. mitch mcconnell knows that. he's trying to protect this president by failing to use his powers as a leader of the senate. >> but if they throw in some of the things you agreed to last

february that the president then reneged on, but a deal for dreamers, some billions of dollars for a wall or a prototype, and maybe something for tps, for all those people like the haitians from the earthquake who have been here, some legally, some perhaps not legally, need some protection from deportation, things that you democrats have been calling for. could you see a deal like that, that could lead to the government being reopened? >> andrea, you know, fool me once, and so forth. we went through this a year ago. a bipartisan proposal to president trump encompassing many of the things you just mentioned. and what happened? he totally rejected it, saying i'm calling my own plan on the senate. he called it and he got 39 votes. am i skeptical of any offer by the white house that involves daca and dreamers? you bet i am. i want something that's granular, that i can feel, that's for real. vague promises around that

subject are not going to do. and i'll tell you this too, i'm not going to sit still for keeping the government closed while we consider these possibilities. >> senator durbin, thanks very much. the stalemate continues. coming up, more on that photo obtained exclusively by nbc news showing that president trump's border wall might not bring the security he claims. jacob soboroff has details live from the texas border next, right here on "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. on "andl reports" only on msnbc or even trouble with recall. thankfully, the breakthrough in prevagen helps your brain and actually improves memory. the secret is an ingredient originally discovered... in jellyfish. in clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve short-term memory. prevagen. healthier brain. better life.

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president trump now saying he would settle for steel barrier instead of a concrete wall. but the prototype of a fence with steel slats that he's been talking about recently flunked a government test. this photo obtained exclusively by nbc news shows a sample of a wall built in 2017 that could be sawed through using common tools. president trump, asked about it this morning, blamed his predecessors. >> what good is a steel wall if they can saw through it? >> well, that was a law designed by previous administrations. there's nothing that can't be penetrated. but you fix it. but it's a very difficult thing to do. but that's a wall -- and they have other walls. we have many walls under consideration. >> it wasn't predecessors. joining me now is jacob soboroff at the border in texas, who along with reporter julia ainsley obtained that photograph. jacob, we see that section of

law, it's steel, i guess, and there are slats. tell me about its ability to be penetrated. >> this is the exact type of wall or fencing or slats or whatever you want to call it, andrea, that president trump has selected and has said the democrats have agreed to, to put along the southern border. we have known for quite some time that dhs, the trump administration, has tested eight different types of border/barrier wall fencing in the san diego area. all eight of those were breached, tested by the border patrol's tactical unit. but we haven't seen pictures of that until today. nbc has exclusively obtained that image of the steel barrier that was sawed through with what the report says is a quick saw, something that you could pick up at home depot. it's sort of a household tool or common tool used by people to deal with, you know, materials like steel or other types of building materials. and the president did say today nothing is impenetrable.

for years president trump said an impenetrable border barrier is indispensable for border security. he staked the shutdown on putting a $5.7 billion wall in the middle of a debate. we know the facts don't support that. now there's another reality, andrea. this steel barrier that the president wants is something that could be cut clear through with something you can buy at the hardware store. >> the dhs' response to all this is that the wall is intended also to deter, not only to prevent entry, it's intended to deter and increase the amount of time and effort it takes for one to enter so we can respond with limited border patrol agents. even a wall that can be breached is a valuable tool in that it allows us to respond to the attempted illegal entry. it seems like -- >> when you hear that, andrea, it makes a lot of sense. >> right. >> look, i will say, i mean, and

senator durbin before the break said to you, that's why you go for a comprehensive approach to immigration and border security. you just heard the helicopter go overhead, that was customs and border protection looking over the rio grande before the president arrives here. the wall is never going to solve what the president says is happening down here. in fact we've said time and time again, the president's policies with regard to immigration and the border have actually exacerbated any sort of crisis, created any sort of crisis that's happening here when it comes to humanitarians. this is where the most children were separated from their parents, this section, the rio grande valley, the metering he's doing at ports of entry is what's causing people to go through the desert and cross in dangerous conditions. again, to hear the president lay it all on the line for the steel slat border wall, yet again he's proven i don't think. >> ja wrong. >> jacob soboroff, thank you for all of your reporting on that.

to get more on all this, log on to msnbc.com/shutdown. it's a one-stop shopping to find out everything that's happening. right now here in washington, as you can see, lawmakers, union members, hundreds of federal workers are rallying to demand an end to the government shutdown. tomorrow it will become all too real for 800,000 americans and their families who will be missing their first paypaycheck. former homeland security secretary jeh johnson joins me. >> i'm 45 years old and i shouldn't have to pawn my belongings to pay for medication when i do have a job. i'm just not able to do that job.

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president trump is scheduled to land in texas early this afternoon. he's bringing with him the head of the army corps of engineers who would be in charge of construction if the president goes ahead with his threat think declare a national emergency and use pentagon money to build that wall. joining me now is jeh johnson, former homeland security secretary under president obama, also former general counsel at the department of defense.

so you know the law and you know homeland and border security as well as anyone. mr. secretary, let's talk about what the president is doing in mccowan, texas? what do you think he should do when he goes to the border today? >> that's a good question, andrea. in addition to going to the border, going to the wall, getting a briefing on the situation, on what he should do, i would suggest that he just walk into one of the holding rooms with a group of 8 or 9-year-old boys. the secret service won't like it very much but they'll probably let him do it. and simply ask these migrants, these young kids, why did you come here? it will be very instructive and very informative. i spent hours and hours with these kids talking to them but why they made the dangerous journey. and he'll find out how dangerous it is in central america and what's motivating these families

to come here in the face of very difficult odds, in the face of deportation proceedings, apprehension at the border. and he'll understand the problem we're grappling with if he simply talks firsthand to some of the families that are so desperate to leave central america and come here. >> he's complained privately that this is just going to be a photo op and he didn't really want to do it after all. but you're saying he could actually learn something. >> yes, use the time while you're there. when i went down there, i probably visited south texas 12 times in three years. when i go to mccowan, i would walk into one of these holding cells, sometimes the border patrol were a little surprised, and through a translator i talked directly to these kids. and the story is almost always the same. my mother said the gangs were going to kill me or the gangs were going to make me work for them. and so my only hope of survival was to come here and be with my grandmother or my aunt, just for

a better chance in the united states. they are really desperate and they're making the basic calculation to flee a burning building for a better life. that's how desperate they are. >> he's bringing with him the army corps of engineers general in charge of that and threatening to declare a humanitarian emergency they're talking about now, they're not so much talking about terrorists now, they've fact checked that and they now know they've made a mistake, claiming there are thousands of terrorists coming across the southern border, and there haven't been. but they're claiming a humanitarian crisis that had he arguably helped create, separating children, delaying legal points of entry, slowing things down, not putting enough judges there. there's a litany of things they've done there. that said, what about a wall, declaring an emergency, you were general counsel at the pentagon,

and taking appropriated pentagon funds, repurposing them, getting around congress and building a section of a wall? >> i'm dubious that the legal authority will work in this situation. the authority that i've seen most often cited for this potential declaration is a department of defense authority. that law provides for emergency funding and authority to build facilities overseas in a wartime like a detention facility or housing for the u.s. military, overseas, in a wartime or in a declaration of a national emergency. it is never an authority that's been used in this type of situation, in a domestic context, to support the border patrol to build a wall. and what i used to tell young lawyers in the department of defense, if we overreach with an authority and try to jam a round peg into a square hole, congress is just simply going to take it away from us for a situation when we really need it. and so i would urge the

president to continue to work with congress to resolve this crisis. and it is a crisis, because the people we are depending on to secure our borders, land, sea, and air, we're putting under great personal stress right now by telling them you must work but you and your families are not going to be paid. and so it's demoralizing. it's stressful. it creates an air of uncertainty. as you know, andrea, a number of tsos are reportedly calling in sick. if they miss a pay period today and tomorrow, they're not going to be happy. and i hope this doesn't happen, but i suspect it's only going to get worse until congress and the president finally fix this problem and put these people back to work and pay them to do their vital homeland security jobs. >> now, one thing that really caught my eye today is a release from the coast guard. and you know full well what the coast guard does and the importance of what they do along our borders and for

interdiction. so they've been telling their people that they can manage your finances during a furlough, get this, by having a garage sale, offer to watch children, walk pets or house sit. i mean, if i were working for the coast guard right now, i would be furious. watch children? offer to walk pets? >> that's sad. it's really sad. to be in a situation where our leaders have to tell men and women in uniform who are there to protect all the rest of us that we're not paying you, in the meantime babysit or when nothing else is left, declare bankruptcy, this is a fall our of catastrophic proportions that we are now almost in week four of a shutdown where the people we depend on for our security of this nation, we are not paying. and we have to go tell them to do things like that. and the most basic function,

andrea, of a government, of a president and a congress, is to fund the government, keep the government open and pay the workers. and right now we're failing at that. and all americans should be outraged at this situation. >> jeh johnson, thanks so much for your expertise. thanks for being with us today. >> thanks. and coming up, new oversight. house democrats summon treasury secretary steve mnuchin to capitol hill about russian sanctions. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. a mitchel reports" only on msnbc the nerves in your colon. miralax is different. it works with the water in your body to hydrate and soften, unblocking your system naturally. and miralax doesn't cause bloating, cramping, gas, or sudden urgency. to enjoy the things i love, i choose #1 doctor-recommended miralax. miralax. look for the pink cap.

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today begins a new era of house oversight as house democrats are demanding answers from treasury secretary steve mnuchin called in by seven committees, seven chairmen, for a grilling to explain why he agreed to lift sanctions on a billionaire russian oligarch and paul manafort crony being punished for russian interference in the 2016 elections, and why they did it quietly just before the christmas congressional break when there was no chance for congress to turn it around. seven house chairmen have summoned mnuchin for a briefing today. this is the second time that mnuchin has been dragged into the mueller probe. robert mueller is nearing the end of his investigation according to nbc's pete williams. joining me now, retired navy

admiral james stavridis, nbc's chief international security and diplomacy analyst, and jeremy bash, an msnbc national security analyst, and former cia chief of staff and former chief of staff at house intelligence. last time the democrats were in charge, jeremy. what's going to happen to steve mnuchin today? he's got to have some explanation for why, out of all the oligarchs, why pick this one who was the guy that manafort owed all that money to, and was involved in, you know, all sorts of -- well, he was sanctioned for the russian interference in 2016. >> oleg deripaska, that's the individual's name, is a very important individual in the russia probe. not only is he a right-hand man to vladimir putin, he's one of the russian billionaires who has been part of putin's inner circle, a real kremlin insider. he was someone that paul manafort was feeding, directly

and indirectly, trump campaign information to. >> offered him briefings. >> offered him briefings about the analytics that the trump campaign had done of the electorate and that could have been used to shape and fashion the social media attack on our election. >> admiral, all of this, it raises huge questions about american security and about whether the treasury -- first of all, these sanctions were forced upon the administration reluctantly. they fought it and fought it. but a republican-led congress forced them last year to put these sanctions on. and now very quietly over the holiday break, they're relieving the pressure on this one guy. >> it's very disturbing. and one thing you learn in this town is that reality matters but so does appearance. and even if this is, improbably in my view, but even if it is completely some kind of innocent analytical drill that we've gone

through and this guy is really clean, it just seems so unlikely, the appearance of this is terrible. and it will impact the way our allies, partners, and friends look at us, notably within nato, where we see the russians using these same techniques to go after elections in europe, further roiling the politics of our greatest pool of partners and allies. >> let me ask you about that, as you were former nato allied commander, one of the unintended consequences, perhaps, that they didn't consider about the president's impromptu decision to withdraw from syria, is that russia is now being looked to by the syrian kurds, our allies on the ground there, for protection, and by everyone else in the region, by turkey. erdogan is talking about go to moscow to talk about how to divvy up syria. >> this is a trifecta of bad policy, the decision to pull out

of syria. first of all it shatters the reliance our allies have on us. it cedes this important terrain to russia. it fails on the containing-great-power politics. thirdly, it reduces the pressure on the remnants of the islamic state. this is a bad decision on every level. we'll pay a price for it going forward. >> as mnuchin is going to be under fire this afternoon, we have to see what happens, this is the first time house intelligence is being led by, you know -- credibly led, because the previous leader was answering to the white house rather than doing the jofbb of normal house republican or democratic chairman, we now have the government shutdown with no negotiations and the president threatening an emergency declaration. jeremy, you were a chief of staff at the pentagon. credibly, as a lawyer, credibly, how does he get away with this,

or during the times of appeals, can he -- does he have broad authority now, if he declares this humanitarian crisis, to repurpose money and take pentagon money to build a wall? >> first, the humanitarian crisis of separating families was a crisis that this president created. so i don't think he can blame anybody else but himself for that. as far as the national security crisis, and admiral stavridis will weigh in here as well, this is not a real crisis. this has been a made-up crisis. it's a chicken little crisis. the president felt an acorn drop on his head and said the sky is falling. it's doubly dangerous, andrea, because not only is he defining down what a national security crisis is but he's going to take money from military readiness. not only is he undermining security but he's actually undermining the ability of the pentagon to actually defend us when a real crisis manifests itself. >> in addition to all your other hats, you know the border very well, you were the head of so h

southcom. is this a real crisis? >> absolutely not, this is a faux crisis, a fake crisis. to underline jeremy's point about military readiness, we have troops deployed on the border standing up in case some honduran women and children try to cross the border, where is we're pulling out 2,000 troops that are the linchpin of our strategy in syria. it is a foolish move that does not stand up to scrutiny as you analyze the correlation of forces in either theater. >> admiral stavridis, jeremy bash, thank you for your wisdom on a lot of things. before we go to break, on this throwback thursday take a listen to donald trump's device to graduates of wagner college with a decidedly different take on breaking through boundaries. our thanks to our good friends at "the daily show" for digging this up. >> never, never give up. don't give up. don't allow it to happen. if there's a concrete wall in front of you, go through it.

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my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry, through dna i found out that i was only 16% italian. he was 34% eastern european. so i went onto ancestry, soon learned that one of our ancestors we thought was italian was eastern european. this is my ancestor who i didn't know about. he looks a little bit like me, yes. ancestry has many paths to discovering your story. get started for free at ancestry.com as my colleague kasie hunt

tweeted just now, this is what everyone was afraid would happen when they invented social media. please don't. that is indeed beto o'rourke in the dentist's chair talking to people near the border about what life is like there, including talking to his own dentist. if you can talk in the dentist's chair. is that what it takes to break out of the back of possible 2020 candidates? joining me is former democratic committee chairman terry mcauliffe, also a potential 2020 candidate, someone who is at least considering it. >> first of all, my father was so cheap, he would not let us have novocaine as kids when we had our teeth drilled. >> are you trying to say you're tough? you're tough enough to take on donald trump? >> to this day when i go to a dentist's chair i sweat, because the experience of me and my brothers with no novocaine -- >> you're dissing your own father on national television? >> he would say, you can tough

it out. when i go to the dentist, it drives me nuts. >> this is a guy who can get 250,000 people watch him cooking chicken. >> i may have to go in with no novocaine and have them drill i going to have to go back to my roots. wrestle an alligator for 15 grand, trying to do everything. >> are candidates jumping the shark? >> i think people are trying to get out, get their own way, trying to figure out what's the best pathway to do it. you know -- >> what way are you going to do it? >> listen, i'll make a decision by the end of march. i think people are looking for realistic practical solutions as i did as governor of virginia. most progressive governor, also, record amount of economic investment, number one state for cyber. i think the public wants actionable, practical solutions to problems. so i'm going through that

process. you know, listen, we've got to deal with trump and the shutdown. he talks about a crisis on the border. we have a crisis in the white house. this is awful what's going on today. >> you wrote in a national "post" op-ed last week, week one or week two of this crisis. now we're in week three. if democrats give up their credibility as serious and focused on results that impact people's lives. relentless negativity is playing on trump's turf. the reality show star always wins that race to the bottom. >> first, understand, he is a compulsive liar, throwing temper tantrums every day. he has emotional mood swings constantly. that's why we're in the mess with the shutdown. i think with that going on with the white house, i think people actually look and, as i say, someone who can come up with realistic solutions to the problems in folk's face. we have 7 million jobs today

that are open. we need to redesign our education system like we did in virginia. we teach cybersecurity in kindergarten. we did the workforce performance development. you go to community college and get one of my credentials, we pay for the whole thing. that's what people want. >> to be elected in virginia, you needed to be a centrist democrat. you were a centrist democrat. that's the way you governed. now the party is moving to the left. you have a more progressive candidate. elizabeth warren is going to new hampshire tomorrow. on saturday, she went to iowa last weekend. bernie sanders is out there, beto o'rourke, all these younger candidates, how do you carve out a place for someone in the middle of the party? >> well, first of all, i think virginia's a perfect model. it was red when i became governor. today, water e're as blue as bln

be. why? we produced. economic development transformed our state. we're a new state today. i inherited a gigantic deficit. because we created -- but at the same time, andrea, you know, i was one of the first people in the south to come out for marriage equality. i am the first nominee to get an "f" rating from the nra and i was proud of that. i told women i'd be a brick wall to protect their rights. so i will put my progressive credentials up against anybody in this country. i have fought for this party for many years. at the same time what people want are solutions. they want health care to be delivered. they want jobs. good paying jobs. what we delivered in virginia. >> given your base, why should someone choose you as a nominee instead of joe biden who has arguably a better resume? >> i don't know about resumes. i can speak about governors. >> foreign relations committee chairman -- i'm just saying, if he's in, can you get in?

>> sure. i'll let senators talk for themselves. governors are ceos. we have to produce every single day. we don't have fila busters. i was not allowed as governor to -- >> so you're experienced? >> we have experience as ceos running things. i built roads. i cleaned roads during snow emergencies. i've dealt with hurricanes. i love to be on the weather channel with my big parka on. i drove a snowplow one day as governor. that's what we do. we deal with crises every single day. we run our national guard. i'm talking about a real -- governors have a record of results. i can tell you exactly how many jobs i've created. >> elizabeth warren said no one, no candidate for president, no democratic candidate for president should take money from pacs or self-finance. eliminate anybody who raised money as you had to. or did as national chairman. the mike bloombergs of the world

or others who -- >> as national chairman, i've got our party out of debt for the first time -- >> would you not go to pacs and not self-fund? >> i'm going to tell you this, i think the federal money is the most important thing. some candidates talk about doing big super pacs. i think you have to show that you can actually raise money. i built the national party's first small donor database. in 2002, '03 ''04. >> what would it take you not to run? >> this is a big decision. i'm going to a deliberative process. i'm calling people constantly. i'm talking to potential staffers. i'm thinking about could i make a difference. this is a very serious deliberate process. i talked to my family over the holidays. five children. some of them, to be honest with

you, probably not their ideal thing they want their dad to do. you know, it's part of growing up in a big family. we'll make a decision. the crisis we're facing today is in the white house. this shutdown affects probably 170,000 virginians. then the ripple effect. the soybean farmer today in virginia, he can't get money, can't put the seed out. this is a serious crisis. the man is throwing a temper tantrum. an emotional moody mess. >> we're going to have to leave it there. thank you very much. we'll be right back. thank you very much. we'll be right back. do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people 12 and up with asthma driven by eosinophils. fasenra is not a rescue medicine or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra is proven to help prevent severe asthma attacks,

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thanks for watching today. follow us @mitchellreports. and now it's to ali velshi and stephanie ruhle. >> all right, andrea, thanks very much. have a great afternoon. good afternoon to all of you. i'm ali velshi. >> i'm stephanie ruhle. it is thursday, january 10th. let's get smarter. >> all right, right now, thousands of unpaid federal workers are launching public protests. they're angry and quite frankly scared now that the partial government shutdown is in its 20th day. in washington, d.c., federal workers are rallying at afl-cio headquarters demanding an end to the shutdown. they're about to march down the street to protest outside the white house. air traffic controllers are joining pilots and flight attendants in rallying against the shutdown. >> stunning. air traffic controllers