that include donald trump recently, donald trump a long time ago and whoever can cut the giant hole in donald trump's steel slat wall model. that's all the time we have on "the beat." "hardball" with chris matthews is up next. cohen to testify. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. we begin with bomb shell news that president trump's long-time lawyer and fixer has agreed to testify in public next month before the congressional oversight committee and appears ready to really set the record straight. as co cannen said in a statement today i look forward to having a privilege to giver a full and credible account of the events

which have transpired. it comes just one month before cone himself sets to one year in prison. and he's being compared to dean who broke ranks with president nixon. nixon was, of course, forced out of office the next year. and and in fact, cohen has already implicated the president in at least one felony. last month cohen admitted to breaking campaign finance laws alleging affairs with donald trump and said he did so at the direction of this president. >> he directed me to make the payments. he directed me to become involved in these matters. i gave loyalty to someone who truthfully does not deserve loyalty. >> he was trying to hide what you were doing, correct? >> correct.

>> and he knew it was wrong? >> of course. >> despite the political and legal damage he could inflict on his former boss, president trump tried to down play the threat he poses to his presidency. >>s there big news about michael cohen. he's agreed to testify before the house tms next month. are you worried? >> i'm not worried about it at all, no. >> however, co cannen appears are ready to tell all. and when it comes to his involvement with russia, we know he's got a lot to say. cohen has quote provided information as well as useful information including russia related matter. and even more damming is cohen said trump is not telling the truth. >> the special counsel did say you were doing your best to tell

truth about everything related to their investigation, everything relotted to russia. do you think president trump is tell itting the truth about that? >> no. >> i'm joined by democratic congressman who sits on the house intelligence committee, a staff writer for the atlantic. reverend al a-- you have a uniqe chance to talk about how much you think cohen wants to tell all. >> i think he wants to tell all because cohen when i met with him the couple of breakfast meetings we had, cohen, aside from the fact he has nothing to lose, knows this is history and he doesn't want his kids to see him in history in the way he's been projected by this president. i think he's going to do the right thing for his fam itally. he's going to tell all and unlike john dean he has tapes

and other things i think is going to be the beginning of the end for this presidency. >> what's his human attitude towards this president? >> i think he's very hurt and bitter. and because of that he's tlr most dangerous witness to have against you. he felt he was coned into feeling like he was a son. the president's calling him names and this is a guy that was doing very questionable, unethical things for the president. sflrs a lot of this comes down to personal opinions and interpretation. the president told him i want to pay off these women that he had affairs with and i want it done to help me win this campaign. it was an explicit campaign contribution according to cohen. >> when the president was seen getting on to air force 1, what did he tell reporters? i don't know.

you got to ask my lawyer, michael cohen. first all of cohen has obviously stuck with his decision not to become a former cooperator, either with the southern district of new york or with the mueller team. he's chosen to become america's cooperator because now he's going to talk directly to the american people. and you're go having to viewership that could rival the super bowl. >> he know as lot. he knows mob sfruf example. he may not want to talk about that because of fear for his life. he may know russian stuff unfear for his life. so he's not as they say a fully cooperating witness. >> he still has a privilege against self incrimination. the sulgtern district of prosecutors were amiff because he wouldn't tell them everything. if he starts to back up, invoke as fifth amendment against

self-incrimination, people might get frustrated but it seems wliek he is now in a place where he wants to tell it all, perhaps privilege be dammed. >> if he spills his guts, what's he got? >> well, one of the most interesting things that we have discovered from going out and discussing all this in public, his lawyer, is that the turning point for michael came when president trump was standing on the stage with vladimir putin in helsinki and sided withter them over his own intelligence officials. that's when he decided he needed to start speaking out against this president. that makes me think a lot of what he knows about the president is about his interactions with the russians in 2016.

>> did he go praug? >> he's denied it. and so i think that he has a lot to say about the general innerworkings about the trump orgernization and i think some of this is going to be limited. >> he's going to talk all about the two women? >> i imagine so. >> here's where lenny davis, one of michael cohen's lawyers once said. he said this about cohen. what he may say next month. >> he'll answer the questions truthfully. what it was like working for donald trump. he has told me many times that nothing went on inside trump tower that donald trump didn't know. it was kind of a rotating door in and out of his office.

>> congressman quigley run through what this is going to mean to the american public. now. >> sure, absolutely. besides great theater, the american people get to find out more about the connections between the russians and the trump associates. it's hard to tell exactly what he'll be able to communicate in this first open hearing and i suspect what you'll see is a number of appearances including before my own intelligence committee. i suggestest much of this must be classified. if he wasn't in praug, why was his telephone pinging off their towers? was he being cute? was he communicating near there? if not, who was communicating with the russians and where? the american public have a right to know. >> let me ask you kbout what you think we're going to hear?

do you think it's possible -- mr. cohen is there anything you want to tell us you want to ask about. he chatted away. if you work for somebody in a professional relationship, they chat about everything. he heard trump talking like pop eye about the russians. he's heard everything he's said. can you get that out of him? >> i suggest he'll be an outstanding chairman on this event. and i don't believe that it will get past mr. comings to answer that is right question. what don't we know? what else can you tell us? indeed he is the only person to my knowledge that can conxz of the political trump world and i think that's where the president's in trouble because everything's connected and for the first time we have an opportunity to start tieing all those questions together. >> what's the president worried about right now?

he's trying to flip it off, it didn't bother me with his hat on. of course this bothered him. this number one fixer all these years doing all the dirty work, the guy knows everything. >> and i don't want to go righting to the salacious. but do we believe all the information he was buying from david picker involved only karen mcdougal? are we going to hear about more, bim bow eruptions? there so much he's been privy to personally, professionally, the organization and perhaps the foundation. i think trump's got to be worried about everything he knows that cohen knows about him. >> i mean this is a guy he knows to when he's in trouble. >> every time we've had battles with trump over the years, cohen was the guy with the meaning i never met with trump that cohen wasn't in the room. so when you look at he was the

guy with the fixer, when you look at that, he's proven revealing with these women. why would you think he doesn't know everything. you don't bring in a side law dwroor do all of these kinds of things. you have to trust him and cohen feels betrayed. has all this information and nothing to lose. >> despite being implicated in a felony, he did nothing wrong when he directed the pay offs that violated campaign finance laws. let's watch. >> trump didn't violate campaign finance laws. it's not a campaign finance violation. number two -- or it's not even under campaign finance. number two, it's not a violation. trump did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. the two campaign finance charges, they're not criminal charges. i never directed him to do

anything wrong. i never directed him to do anything correct or wrong. it's totally legal. stories one after another. the great lawyers who do that stuff are saying there's unwilling illegal. >> unlike john edwards where he was getting money to quiet a woman down of the child born thanks to him, this time you have a fixer saying no, he paid them off as a campaign expense. >> michael cohen released a recording of him discussing the fact he was going to crecannate shell companies and figure it out with the chief financeal officer of the trump foundation. so unless trump is saying we shouldn't believe our own ears, which he has encouraged us to do many times and when he's back in a corner, he repeats things over and over. now he was repeating previously it was not crime.

clearly it was because michael cohen was indicted for it. i think this is not going to be a reliable story that he sticks to and every reason to be concerned about the other wem. there were people who said openly there were many women coming forward and potentially had these accusations against him. >> let me get back to the reverend because i think a lot of people come to you hoping you'll give them a break in terms of justice. what's this guy want? he's going to prison but he's gone for a while. what do you think spiritually this guy wants now? >> i think he wants to get all out and like absolution. he has disappointed himself and his family. i think he wants absolution that at least bhauvr whatever i face, i'm going to face it, that i put it all out there and this guy

that used me and then dropped me and now is calling me names, i'm going to let the record be set straight. the last thing he said and we want a power breakfast. the regency in new york. he says reverend pray for me. made me feel this guy wants absolution. he's not going to let this guy get away with it. >> thank you, sir, as always. reverend al sharpton and glen kirschner. and president trump visited the u.s./mexico border for a photo op. he actually called it that. plus an estimated 800,000 federal employees will miss their paychecks tomorrow. and u.s. congressman steve king is getting hit i think appropriately for what he said about white supremacy.

and donald trump's command of television is fading. trump's c television is fading i am a family man.

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well, welcome back to "hardball." as the government shutdown stretch under to the 19th day, president trump refused to take responsibility, despite telling people he would be proud to take responsibility. harry truman said the buck stops here. the president bucking a decade 's long trend from his predecessors. >> the president, whoever he is has to decide, he can't pass the buck to anybody. >> the buck stops here. >> ib do believe that buck stops here. >> it stops with me. i am the one who's ultimately accountable. >> for ultimately the buck stops

with me. >> dhuz buck stops with me over it the shutdown? >> the buck stops with everybody. >> in fact jack kennedy after he failed the bay of pigs, he said i was the serving officer at the time. it was my fault. anyway, president trump travelled to the southern border to make his case for the $5.7 billion he's demanding to build the wall. tuesday trump said the trip was merely a photo op. and today he received a tour of the border in rio grand and briefed by border patrol officials. and said he's moving closer to declaring a national emergency to secure funding for the wall. >> ib have the absolute right to declare a national emergency. the lawyers have so advised me. if this doesn't work out, probably i will do it. >> we can declare a national

emergency. we shouldn't have to because this is just common sns. >> are you closer to declare canning an emergency? >> i think we can do this quickly because this is commonsense and it's not expensive. >> one of the president's top allies in congress, lindsey graham urged the president to use his emergeancy powers saying it's time. and of illinois and thank you both for joining us. it doesn't seem like both sides are doing this. nobody on the democratic side in congress says let's close down the government. the president said we're closing down the government because i want my wall. >> it's ridiculous and unnecessary and this is totally solvable. we can open government immediately and in the meantime tomorrow's pay day. >> who's fault is it they're not getting paid? >> i think there's blame that can go around.

>> shutting the government down. >> kpt do it like that. but we've got to be willing to go into a room and talk about what we need do to reoopen this and i believe there needs to be a little give and take on both sides. >> i agree with that but here's the truth of it. we were at that space where there was give and take and folks have given and taken and agreed this would be the deal. theicize is the one who up is this the apple card here. and now you have federal employees who are going toing have to figure out what they're going to do and stave off creditor and figure out how to buy food. that sound clip of him passing the fwuk anyone but himself and that's not the leadership the country needs right now. >> house speaker nancy pelosi is insistent they won't provide any money to build the wall. she's called an immorality and slammed the president for walking out of yesterday's

negotiations. >> what he is proposing is not the best way for us to secure our borders. we don't want to be a back dpraup the president to stomp the table and get up and walk out. the president just keeps upping the ante. i've said you're moving the goal post so many times, they're out of the stadium. >> so my feeling sitting here, not there is that pelosi's acting like winston churchhole. she's strong, pure, she says we're not going to build the wall. live with it, president. it's the first time this guy has had to face somebody who says you have your iconic message, i got one too. >> look what we did on day one when we're sworn in. sworn in thursday afternoon. by that night we pass the bill to reoopen the government. it's the same almost identity dhool bill the senate passed

earlier and yet they won't take it up and the president isn't going to sign it anyway. >> he will settle for a steel barrier? stead of a concrete wall. but the steel slats were cut through with a saw. 2017 test of a prototype. anyway, the photo obtained exclusively by nbc showed the result oofz test after military personal were attempted to destroy it with common tools. could take 10 years to build the wall, even with 10,000 workers. even the more modest 5.7 billion would taken a army of 10,000 workers and yield only 230 miles of barrier. that's about 10%. apparently with a hack saurks assuming lain the night you can go and cut your way through and that makes me wonder about a lot of things. what do you make of this that there's not that hard to get a

hacksaw out >> what we've been talking about from the start is this wall, however it's defined is not the end all, be all. we have technology we can use. we've learned from the border patrol that these tunnels are being used. this has to be a multiprong approach. the wall is not the answer. the let's look at the best tech nog we can. >> there's the hideous reality. meanwhile the "daily show" dug up a commencement speech that donald trump gave in 2004. here's what donald trump then had to say about wall. >> never, ever give up. don't give up. don't allow it to happen. if there's a concrete wall in front of you, go through it, go over it, go around it but get to the other side of that wall. >> i don't know how you say that in spanish but he's giving advice to a family on the other

side looking for a job in this country and a place here. if you got to go around the wall, you go around the wall. that's common sns. if there's 2,000 miles of border, wroul rr go 200 miles to where it's not and get across. >> but the irony of that moment is that is the quintessential essence of what america's abo about you're talking about people leaving difficult places to come here. they're going through trials and tribulations to come here, doing anything they can to get over the walls and barriers keeping them imprisoned in crime in their home country. he's the guy now who's building that wall. >> what would be your counter offer if you were speaker to the president? >> i'd say that can be the starting point. we can talk about that but let's get in a room and figure out how do we block these tunnels, use

technology. in the end we want to make sure people feel safe, they're not scared. >> so there's a way to reduce illegal immigration properly e? >> yeah, but we have to enhance our border patrol and one other thing worth noting and i know it's been stated over andover again but what happened to mx co paying for the wall? and now it -- >> what's that in paceose? >> i don't -- >> any government down there that would be paying for it would be going. >> when you ask the question about, you know, the immigration problem. we all have to be honest about what the problem is. not folks coming across our sulgtern border. the over stays, the visas. the workforce issues. a more comprehensive conversation cut into two parts. let's get the government open

and put good people back to work so they can get their families settled and then let's deal with what we want immigration to be in this country. our leadership is not being honest about what we want know the problem is. >> up next president trump says many federal workers are happy to make the adjustment from getting the paycheck. we're going to hear from federal workers not so happy about being forced to make an adjustment so trump can get his wall. n adjust trump can get his wall discover. hi. i like your card. i love all the cashback and security features, but i'm not going to pay an annual fee. i'm just not going to do it! okay. okay? discover has no annual fee on any of our cards. so it wasn't my tough guy act? no. we just don't have any annual fees. that's a relief. i've been working on that for a long time. if we had talked a month ago, that would have been a whole different call. i can imagine. excuse me, sir can i please have no annual fee? no annual fee on any card only from discover.

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this is going to be interesting and welcome back to "hardball." it's the second longest government shutdown ever in this country and come saturday if negotiations remain at an impasse it will remain the longest. tomorrow will be the first pay day that 800,000 federal employees will not get their paychecks. >> i just bought a brand new car and it's really frustrating. i don't know how i'm going to survive. >> i'm 45 years old and i shouldn't have to pawn my belongings to pay for medication when i do have a job. i'm just not aubl to do that job. >> it's not easy to go to bed thinking where are you going to get money? you know. year having to ration what gas

we have so we can pay those bills at the end of the month. you know, we're thinking are we going to have to get in debt kr credit cards to get by? it's really tough. >> well, president trump says those workers will just have to make due. >> i can relate and i'm sure that people that are on the receiving end will make adjustments. they always do. and many of those people that won't be receiving a paycheck, many of those people agree 100% with what i'm doing. >> today furloughed federal employees took to the streets in washington to voice their objections. two wrunians are suing the trump administration over the shutdown. virginia congresswoman whose

dustricate across the potomac river from here includes 10s of thousands of federal employees. you know a lot of them. >> i do. i have many constituents and friends and families who are employees. >> they're not nameless, faceless bureaucrats. >> i'm getting hundreds of emails can constituents worried about how they're going to make ends meet. constituent withes that there asking for forbearance from student loans and i have a visit from an air traffic control whoor got a pay stub showing she worked 80 hours. i think there's a graphic coming up and zero pay. >> what is this going toing do? scares the heck out of me to think air traffic controllers are hampered in their job because they keep the planes separate from each other up in the air >> and they're all having to work. i have two very large air

traffic control facilities in my district that control air traffic for most of the middle atlantic. and all those screeners are still having to work. many commute in from long distances and are incurring commuting expenses but not getting paid. >> obviously you're a democrat, just got elected. congratulations. i find e their all trump people, walking around with make america great hats on. >> they love their country, love the agencies they work for. they work for the government because they believe in the mission of what they're doing. we owe them so much more than this. >> as a long-time federal employee told me 40 years ago

said people don't do their best work when they're being peaed on. they're serving the country. and with the federal shutddown, national parks are filling up with trash and human waste. tsa workers are calling out sick and fda has stopped most of its food safety inspkzs. and if the shutdown continues, nbc's reported the country could face dooms day scenario with devastating snow ball effect. the federal court system will slow to a crawl. disaster relief doesn't make it to a storm ravaged area and could lead to stock market plummeting. i'm sure you saw the it story about the restaurants. there's nobody in them. there's no cash coming in. >> absolutely. and those businesses are never

going to makeup the difference. people say federal workers will get back pay, hopefully. but i have a lot of contractors effected and all the businesses who depend on federal workers are never going to see that money back. >> whose fault is this? >> it's donald trump's fault. >> thank you. up nex at sitting member of congress wonders allowed why calling yourself a white supremacist is not even offensive. really? really red lobster's new weekday five days.s here: five deals. for fifteen dollars get a different deal every weekday til six pm like endless shrimp monday admiral's feast tuesday four course feast wednesday and more. five days. five deals. fifteen dollars. see you before six.

back to "hardball." congressman of iowa has a history of making racially offensive comments, including comparing immigrants to dirt and saying we can't return civilization through marriage. and king can said white nationalist, white supremacist, western civilization, how did

that language become offencive? why did i teach about the -- he defended his comments to nbc's casey hunt. >> what i was really talking about was the continuation of applying labels on to people as freely as they are. i reject anyone who carries that ideology. >> not what he said. ginger gibson, political correspondent for reuters. u.s. kaurngressman from colorado. and it former spokesman for john boehner who is now speaking for marijuana. >> it's a strange transition. i don't know if that's your future or not but is it odd to bump into a guy like that in a hallway who says white supremacy

is okay. >> i haven't bump under to him yet. he's been making these statements for years just as you articulated. >> if you had strong legs down there in the bottom part of your leg, that means you've been carrying dope across the border. >> not been my experience but yes, that's what he says. what i think is extraordinary is he didn't even claim to be misquoted. usually the congressman if he's saying out of context. and urged to see partedy leaders like liz cheney the conference chair saying this is unacceptable. and i think there's a rising tide of realization this is not something we need in the house republican conference. >> he used phrase white supremacy. er saying even the phrase --

well, you have to come up with a better phrase. white people should rule the world. >> i think there's bipartisan agreement that we all agreed white people weren't superior to everyone else. that's the answer to his question and to michael's point i think we're seeing more push back against steve king. >> do you think he can lose an election in western iowa? >> i think he can lose a primary. someone who argus, as his primary opponent is, that he's costing iowa. >> congressman. >> while i'm heartened by the republicans who have spoken out on this, i hope they will stay true to that and the nrcc ultimately won't come to his aid when he's running for reelection. >> but they love that district. the biggest news we've heard in a long time, president trump's former lawyer fixer michael cohen has agreed to

testify in public before the congress early next month. said last month he is done being loyal to the guy. here's michael cohen. >> i'm done with the lying. i'm done being loyal to president trump. and my first loyalty belongs to my wife, my daughter, my son and this country. >> this is john dean coming. this is the guy who's going to explain the whole diagram of the operation. it's going to be done live. >> have no doubt that he has an unprecedented amount of information about the president and has gone out against him. house democrats promised an investigation into donald trump. they're going to have a blockbuster their second month in power. didn't require them to file a single supoona. he's coming on his own. >> i'm going to say it's a big deal and i think walls are closing in on this president. both of you know elijah cummings

real well. >> he's a pro and earned this position. >> precisely right and i think we're going to learn a lot, the american people are going to learn a lot when mr. cohen testifies. >> anything you wanted to telt us? because this guy really wants to tell. it's not like he's an uncooperative witness. >> house democrats are not, i'm sorry to say, going to have much luck making law but they're going to be able to shape news and have these big hearings that there going to drive the public debate. >> you know the pr business like i do. you go -- you can hear it, read it in the paper, hear it on the radio, but when you see a person on television saying it become as new fact, this guy is going to fill the archives of the media with word after word against donald trump which will be useful as hell for those that want him out of office.

>> and it's going to get wall-to-wall coverage. he's going to be preparing for what we have to assume is a pretty damming indictment of the president of the united states's behavior before, during and after the election, presumably on national television. >> i think your point about getting to the facts fundamentally is the most important piece of all. this is the president's lawyer, his fixer who will testify in open session. >> what happened to client privacy? >> and i think it's important to remember it could matter very little what cone says as it matters how these members on the panel handle their questions. many of them were there through the summer of 2013 and they've seen how the media will jump on a question or a back and forth, even if cohen won't answer that. >> please follow up with each other, members of congress.

nothing is more disspiriting and i have something differ tonight talk about. finally president trump continuing to point the blame on the democrats, claiming they don't care about crime. >> the democrats don't care about crime. they've been taken over by a group of young people who, frankly, in some cases i've been watching, i actually think they're crazy. but they've been taken over by a group so far left i really don't think they care about crime. they have been taken over by a group of people that don't care about gangs, they don't care about human trafficking and drugs they don't care about anything. i'll tell you what. they have gone crazy. >> well, that's a republican campaign speech aimed at the trump voter. i know who he's talking to. he's accusing you guys, the younger you are, the worse you

are. sglirl >> it's outrages. you just had a member of our class talking about border security. any number of people who are law enforcement professionals, lead who served our country. 800,000 people right now are furloughed or working without pay. he has taken our government hostage and this notion he can continue to sort of call people crazy and so forth and not get back to the business of the american people, i've had enough. >> do you think he can keep this up? >> i think it's possible it the shutdown continues for a long time. >> he can do a emergency national declaration and -- >> office back? >> any rational person would have threat it house pass the

senate passed bill and avoided the shutdown altogether before christmas. >> i'd rather have my determination of building the wall. i think it's a better fight in the courts than the people. >> nancy pelosi said she thought the president was dragging this out to distract from the problems in the white house. he likes to have an immigration fight and we know that. he's said so. you talk about a court battle and he gets a twofer. month of a shutdown the dest nations is trying to build the wall. >> there is no destination. that's the point. year applying rationality to a administration devoid of it. >> wherever you go, that's where you're going to be. and i think -- anyway, the round table sticking with us. anyway,d table sticking with us savor card. earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment.

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criticized anyway so might as well do it. >> congressman? >> i think we're unitieted to get to the facts. the impact of the shutdown. we have more breweries than anywhere else in the united states. >> of course. >> but it is an unexpected casualty of the government shutdown. the agency in charge of licensing beers has been impacted and there are a lot of small businesses that are unfortunately unable to do as much business as they ordinarily would. >> you asked earlier steve king could be defeated. he has a primary oponent and the primary opponent is seeing almost the same argument made of the only republican house member who was defeated for being too far too right. barring strange new events, i think he still mans the

majority -- the support of the because of our party. >> what is it? >> why? because he claims to be fighting for them and they like watchinging it. >> thank you very much. from colorado. way out there in the mountains, michael steele, thank you for that. let me finish with a stunning donald trump.

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let me finish tonight with a stunning responsibility. could it be donald trump, raining champion of reality tv is losing his stuff? are we watching the of barnm fading to black? what is his uncontested sweet spot 9:00 p.m. eastern. we're talking about the very time spot of the apprentice. when he drove home his cruel catchphrase you're fired. remember that, donald trump? well, this tuesday night trump went on national television grabbing prime time from all the major networks and cable channels, what we call a road block. but guess what? the democrats, speaker nancy

pelosi and senademocratic leadet managed to grab higher ratings than him. according to the "new york times," trump told some tv anchors early tuesday that whole idea of his going on prime time tv was his staff's idea, as was the decision to head to the mexican border this afternoon. it was all his people's fault. they're his communication staff's fault. guess what? trump is getting clobbered again tonight by his old fixer who just let out word he's going on live television early in february with all the dirt working under his finger nails working for donald trump. the russian meeting at trump tower, the scrambling for dirt on hillary clinton, the works. and guess whos to the sit in the white house and watch it all? that's right. watch. the one-time champ of reality television watching someone else grab the network and cable time

talk dirty about donald j. trump. with trump's former fixer in the lady gaga role, he donald trump, the falling star. who isn't going to be watching that one? thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> there's big news about michael cohen. >> president's fixer will face the public. michael cohen agrees to testify before congress in public. he directed me to make the payments. the man doesn't tell the truth. what questions will be asked. it's said i should take responsibility for his dirty deeds. >> why this could be a john dean moment for the president. >> i began by telling the president there was a cancer growing on the presidency. >> michael co is an very talented lawyer. and as the president prepares to stage an emergency.