here tomorrow night at 5:00 p.m. eastern for "new edition and a live edition of politics nation accounts. up next is nicole wallace. >> hi, everyone, it is 4:00 in washington. without enough support in washington, trump is corners. he gets desperate. the white house has started laying the ground work for national emergency. a fire storm that could pave the way for an end to the three week government shut down. democrats blasted the president for manufacturing a crisis at

the border where crossings are the lowest in decades. >>. >> the president is holding the american people hostage over his vanity project, this is a crisis of his own making. >> that is not democracy, that is dictatorship. >> despite an attempt at reassurance last hour, donald trump reportedly looked at funding his wall on the backs of victims of natural disasters. nbc news proposes that trump could dip into the $2.4 billion allocated to projects in california including flood protection and projects at the folsom dam. even republicans are warning

against the emergency declaration this hour. >> i don't want to see a declaration. i think that would be done in the most extreme schisms. >> it is the power of the purse that comes from the elected representatives of the people. >> it could be climate change. >> and a one time speech writer for president george w. bush puts a fine point on this particularly galling moment. he writes in today's washington post that security arguments would be at the center of trump's justification. then the ignorance, arrogance, and stubbornness of one man would turn a budget crisis into a constitutional crisis.

all to justify a fool's impulse. here to discuss some of our favorite reporters and friends, former cia director john brennan, aaron brake, kim atkins, and eli stockles. i first heard this bar lel to ath authoritarianism, that if you must pressure the people in congress to pass legislation, you simply reach for the afortarians tool box. and you do it by emergency declaration. it o sounded like a reach, but it makes sense now. >> i think trump has been reaching in in terms of delegitimatizing the press. trying to control the

institutions, so his opting for this right now is very typical of him, and the is fabricating crisis that lead to riesz in confidence among federal workers. 40% of the federal civilian workforce is now furloughed. some are working without pay, others are not working at all. those contractors and those people. so this is something they think donald trump does not really, i think he understands it, but he doesn't care because he lacks the gene of empathy. i only does things that will benefit himself. the fact that so many americans will suffer as a result of this, i don't think it bothers him, he is just looking at which way the political winds blow.

if this was popular, he would be behind this. the explanation for the cowardice, he would say the base is so powerful, but clearly they're not. >> i think he now real estates that the democrats in congress are not going to budge, so i think he is feeling more pressure and i think he got it right. >> he usually does. it is his stubbornness that is keeps us from moving fwafrd and from dealing with border security in a responsible way. >> one official said it was my job to know where all of the world's terrorists were and they were never on the southern border. in the eight years of the obama, clinton, and bush administrations. so again, this is a fabrication

of his own making to try to play to his own base. >> it seems like the president's addiction to lying as caught up with him. director bren than in is talking about the human calamity of this, the american people that are vulnerable, everyone protecting us from air traffic control. in terms of what the president understands, it is a political calamity for him. >> having a bully pulpit, you think about hi can never just bully his way into submission. you saw him get on national television this week and speak to the country and try to move public opinion, he doesn't have credibility on this issue or other issues to speak to these

people like this. all of the trab doors, he gives us all whiplash. he said it over 200 times, when you have someone that pays that fast and laos, everyone catches up to that, it is a choice to listen to what he says. i think in terms of pushing the public and more pressure on lawmakers, it just doesn't work for him and he is frustrated about that. he is not getting movement from pelosi or shumer and it speaks to why they're so tied up in notes, they don't have any moves at this point. >>. >> i described him as politically impotent earlier this week. but i think the word, it is

exactly what you just described, the word also applies to his base. they're not as big and powerful. they are unable to move the needle even an iota on the wall. >> right, athink when we're talking about the president's base, we need to be clear. it is people that some folks are telling him his base is. certainly we know that republicans in congress are not behind him on this issue because they have passed a bill that would have funded the government, and it just cuts against this idea that the spth a master negotiator. he totally misinterpreted nancy

pelosi, thinking he could push them, and he couldn't, and now he is backed into a corner where the only way out is to make a declaration, the kind of action that they are railed against for eight years. it is a terrible position. >> it is striking to me, the clips that we played, chuck grass ri, you might expect him to say this, but we have dead cruise who has not been on board with this national emergency status. the president views this potential national emergency as leverage, as a threat to say if you don't give me this, i will do this. and the fact is those republicans coming out to say they're uncomfortable with that, they can't even stick to his talking points on this. so i think they do not understand the amount of coverage he has on this debate.

he has been talked out of it so many times before, and he is trying to salvage something that could be very embarrassing for him. >> just one other point, which whole week has been able laying the ground work and trying to convince people of the problem on the border. if it is hey, this is silly, this won't work, or when you're out there and you're back and forth and always talking to the press saying i may declare a national emergency, i don't want to yet, if it is a matter of want to it is not that much of a national emergency. i think the president under cut his own leverage because he can't be quiet and he gives away the big. >> and the president branded this as something he would be proud to do weeks ago. >> i am proud to shut down the

government for border security. . the people of this country don't want people with drugs. the last time you shut it down, it didn't work. i'm going to shut it down for border security. >> so to take that and something else, what does the world see? it is like the immune system facing a virus it has never been seen. with no apparent end game but their total surrender, this is a case study in failed and erratic lip. is it dangerous around the

world? >> i think it is, it is becoming apparent for so many people not just around the country but around the world that he is full of bluster and rhetoric. he has fine tuned that in terms of being dishonest and deceitful. so i think i would like to think that the more republicans on the hill will separate themselves from his positions but also call him out. because he really is a danger to this country's future, our prosperity and our nation nal security. >> what worries an ally the most? i think they're very concerned about his recklessness, the fact that he has all of these

distractions, and the united states is not able to focus on the international stage dealing with the issues that we have to. and the fact that he will just pronounce this, our allies and partners were not informed. >> yeah, they're trying to recast what trump said or did because there is no coherence to the policies and strategies. what is russia and china doing? and i think this is something that cannot continue if we are interested in trying to make sure this country lives up to it's full potential. >> do you think we have a chance of living up to our potential? you look at these -- they look

flabbergasted. the republicans in congress look like they're out of options because they know trump exactly as you describe him. they should just pop sock popcorn. i don't know what there is for them to do, are we going to hope for the best or just try to survive this? >> democrats have a plan of action to try to continue to do the work. >> and some republicans in the house have been voting for hem. mitch metuisela 'unga connell can put these on the floor and push, he is a great counter. the impetus is on him more than ever now. this is the crisis. not the one at the border. >> that is how it ended in 2013.

we all knew it was never going to work in the first place. and he humored him for 16 days. we gave it a shot, if they decide this will hurt them lily, we have to do this now or we might have no override your veto. >> the dwlad an ending is emanant being foolish, do you think it will keep going on? >> it doesn't seem like from what the president said, he could always go back on his word, it doesn't seem like that happened this weekend and there is a sense that we're getting

that inside the white house they are preparing for this possibly going on another week, possibly through another month, and so that is really remarkable. i think there is just an insulation from inside the white house from the impact of the government shut down. that is something that the republicans on the hill, especially the vulnerable senators on the ballot, they feel the urgency. if he backs down he will be losing to the democrats, that is aless pea for someone to stick this out for a long time. >> when we come back, why were

politicians all over donald trump's inaugural celebration. robert mueller wants to know. the investigation now looks at what the huddles between ukrainians and pro trump people took lace on the day he was worn in, and nancy pelosi said it was the worst classified breaching she has ever attended. what might he be hiding. so much for leaving partisanship at the waters edge, moving towards the world auto accurat autocrats, those stories coming up. tocrats, those stories comin up a leaf is a hint that is connected to each person in your family tree. i learned that my ten times great grandmother is george washington's aunt. within a few days i went from knowing almost nothing

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the latest bomb shell report fort the "new york times" could get investigators closer to connecting important dots in the mueller probe and if trumps pro russian foreign policy could be criminal at it's core. michael flynn and michael cohen, his investigators now probing whether they and other members of trump's inner circle illegally pushed a pro russian agenda for exchange for profit and if the agreement between the campaigns and russians could be link std to meddling. mueller's team became suspicious of an unkushs number of

pro-russian ukrainians at trump's inauguration party. joining me is jeremy bash and matt miller is back. i have to start with you because we, i think, share in the responsibility that if we ever normalize a seasons like robert mueller became suspicious at the alarming number of pro putin u you -- ukrainians at his inauguration party. throughout the campaigns, throughout the business life, and as he became president of the united states. so consorting, colluding, or

interacting with these various types, and some of them of question able integrity, and ethics and principals, and i think it came to the attention of a lot of the authorities here about what was going on and whether or not there was any illegal criminal activity that might have taken police by anyone involved. >> can you pull the threat on what the president's national security advisors, what could they have in meeting with pro putin ukrainians. at the center of our new york times resporting, this was part of an effort to engage in foreign lobbies and foreign

influence by pro putin forces. what i found very interesting so build on his point is that in the reporting by the new york times is that the trump tower project was predicated on loans by two russian entities. so the idea was to relax sanctions. so when the trump tower meeting halved in june, it wasn't just the russians that wanted sanctions, the trump organization wanted sanctions. >> i think is lost on so many people that are looking for something so dramatic in is a simple pay to play, a simple construction, bad business, simply trump doing business the

way he did business in new jersey, a low tech crime if you will. >> he had final interests, and moscow trump tower was a signature project. it was his salvation. it was his way to monetize the relationships that he cultivated in the inner circle for all of these many years. it's the reason he did the ms. universe pageant. just one more point, we keep using the term peace plan. they were a way to relieve sanctions on russia and give donald trump what he sought. >> all of the mealings were about this. the meeting at trump tower was about sanctions relief.

i want to dig in at this point, the sanctions pose a potential obstacle for the trump tower and moscow projects. but the sanctions prohibited them according to reporting for buzz field, what does that tell you about what mueller is following. what does that tell about the mueller probe. >> this is not from the ukrainian government. these are from russian elements. this is one of two pro russian ukrainianments that manage to make their way into the trump administration early on. it is about sanctions, and that is part of the original sin. and probably through flynn and

the national security advisor, releaving sanctions in exchange for something else. that could be helping the election, it could be a number of things. that is at the heart of this investigation and it has been. >> what do you think about the kinds of things that are dripping out. the lawyers for white house aids and people around washington that are sort of information. >> i agree completely. i was going to make that point before you even asked the question. i feel like there was a point in this investigation six to nine months ago where we thought the collusion stuff maybe dried up. it had been in the news, but it had not been advanced. we had a lot of obstruction things coming out. now we have the trump tower

moscow situation. we have the alleged russian intelligence, and now it feels like there are a lot of dots out there we don't know if mueller is connecting those dots, if they will lead to anything, but the idea that this is a mostly obstruction probe, but it is kind of being put to rest right now, the collusion question is on the table right now and he has not bonded that at all. >> i want to read you one more thing. individual one is the president. cohen discussed the status and project with individual one. a clear reference to trump within and he bereaved triefed y members on the meeting. >> how much trouble could he be

in. >> evasion, tax fraud, the fbi investigation was initially opened on in in july of 2016. so the fbi and financial investigators are very good. for those of us that worked the count eer intelligence issues, then follow the money. they have been pulling those threads to see what those final transactions and efforts to try to avoid the different types of u.s. obstacles put in place to prevent this type of foreign manipulation of our political system. i think that what we're seeing now is indications of things that the fbi has been able to uncover, and the information they have been able to bring together. we saw some of it in the indictments already, and in the next month or two i think we

will see a fair amount more that will implicate those very close to individual one. >> what do you know? this a month or two? >> no, i think, again, this investigation has been going on for 2.5 years. i think bob mueller doesn't want to bring this into the campaign season. i anticipate that in the first half of this year, if not sooner, it will be concluded. but what his report will be i think it subject to some question. but i think he will try to at least wrap up his work, he may be feeding and seeding, you know the different types of investigations that he has uncovered or identified, so the southern district of new york, the eerch district of virginia, the state attorney general of new york, but don't think that bob mueller sees this is his lifelong career. >> feeding and seeding, that is too good, we're going to push on

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as wlaern more about the extent of robert mueller's scrutiny, democratic lawmakers saying putin's push to make america great again bmay be condemni condemning. yesterday treasury secretary fooef steve mnuchin was subpoenaed to

capitol hill. >> this, was one of the worst classified briefings we have received. the secretary barely testified. he answered some questions but he didn't give testimony. they had an intelligence briefing, and then they read a document that was unclassified wasting the time of the members of congress. and i went in sympathetic to the process that has been established for sanctions and the relief of sanctions. i came out and just. >> this is lifting sanctions from the company, why do the trump cabinet members put all of their credibility on the line to

toe the line. >> i they is part of the question. why do so many people, why do they continue to trash their reputation, sacrifice their integrity, lack the principals and the thetices that we expect for officials, why they're doing this for a person like trump. i can't figure it out, and i give jim mattis a lot of credit for trying to give them the best for so long but at some point you to say that, you know, i'm enabling this bad behavior. i'm not being the guard rail that i'm trying to be. so i think a lot of people should be asking themselves that question. >> i think we get the high road example. he decided to stop telling lies for trump and we're just beginning to learn, he will testify on january 7th, but what

do you think about steve mnuchin, nancy pelosi is one of the most effective partisans i have seen. it was the worst classified briefing that she has heard is really a stunning indictment. >> yeah, it is basically the last 20 years, she heard her fair share, and it is not that she always agreesed, but when she saying something like this athink you can take it to the bank. there is a larger point here, nicole, while we may have to wait for the report, we don't have to wait for the report to see the effects of the influence

campaign. this administration's russian policy has been the most effective in history. the kremlin's hand picked client is one example of under mining nato, and taking the word in the russian intelligence service social security probably the most troubling example, but you see a tee nominally. it is not about efforts at reigning in, but you ticked off all of the points they was going to make, syria, cry mimea, thers not much left.

>> it is very hard to see. there is not a great expectation. >> but ifs you know who got screwed? putin. nobody says that. >> one of the things that was evident that he didn't understand and i bet few people understand is how much the rules changed on january 3rd. a yeah ago, steve mnuchin could have refused to answer some questions and there would have been no consequences. now things are different. he may have to explain himself in an open session in front of cameras, or pushing a roll back of sanctions reversals. so their days of being able to treat congressional oversight as a nuisance they can ignore are over. >> it shines a light on two

things. how focused they can be and how horrific republicans have been for years. >> it will be even more pressure once, if all of the reporting is correct, you an end to the mueller investigation. there will be more difficulty for republicans to turn the other way and pretend it is not happening and it will ramp up the oversight of democrats that they have promised. i think it makes a very good point that it is ar differevery now. you see the white house staffing up, beginning to realize what is on the horizon. i have been to that movie, i know how it ends. when we come back, trump and his secretary of stump have turned trashing u.s. politicians who disagree with them on foreign policy into an art form. now one will take the low road

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we know president really likes strong men. he has defied conclusions about meddling, he says that he and kim jong un fell in love, he has praised volatile leaders and yesterday we heard this. >> i find china, frankly, in many ways to be far more honorable than crying chuck and nancy. i think that china is easier to deal with than the opposition party. >> that statement is put in context. his affinity for strong men is well established as is his contempt for his predecessor.

regardless of their party afeeluation. but rarely has the trump administration offered such a striking display of em praises auto accurates as friends and painting those at home with whoom he disagrwhom he disagrees as enemieenemies. >> remember, it was here, here in this city, that another american stood before you. he told you that radical islamic terrorism does not stem from an ideology. he said we needed a new beginning. the results of these misjudgments have been dire. the good news is this. the age of shelf inflicted american shape is over and so are the policies that produce so much needless suffering. >> pompeo also saying that when

america retreats, chaos follows. he must have forgotten that he works for an isolationist. the panel is still here. i hear him and it sounds like 2004 is calling and they want their respect secretary of state back. he is not speaking like he has any attachment. we can only call them impulses. nay have nothing to do with the american ideal and they have everything to do with randomly and impulsively retreating from places where lives are on the line. >> i think mike pompeo should be ashamed of how he performed. it is very unfortunate. donald trump is proceeding on the foreign policy front with the lack of coherence, the lack of strategic understanding here.

he is trying to make sense out of what trump is doing and that is why you see the inconsistency between what they all say. and i'm sure that people in the region are confused. i don't know what is being said in the private meetings, but what is being said yesterday is a great source of confusion for all. >> trump's excuse is that he has red not one book. he doesn't understand the middle east. >> i think he has served and lived in the middle east. i think people there look as your actions. they allowed iran to establish all of the way through iraq and syria through the mediterranean. we have abandoned our alleys that fought alongside us including the kurds and the

syrian arab services. we have freaked out jordan, the gult partners in egypt, and we have done so many things and they were the ultimate straw that broke his back. >> i'm not a foreign policy whiz by any stretch, but if you're so afraid of iron, why are you strengthening all of their allies? >> because barack obama took at opposite position. that is the bottom line i think. we know by know that he doesn't really believe in fundamental liberal values, so rule of law, strength and democracy, western liberal values, and i think what you see from some of the people that work from him are they are trying to take his foreign policy, his impulses, and trying to fashion a foreign policy out of them, and it looks like they

mistake an opposition to liberals and americans with liberalism. mike pompeo should know better, run around the world embracing tyrants and auto accuratwutauto. parent shlly because they have to do the on sis of what barack obama did in every instance. >> there is no more john mccain, no more republicans in the congress that have that stature in the world. >> people are standing up saying i'm still waiting for mitt romney to do what he said he would do. at the same time, i remember being told by israeli officials how horrible the obama had min strags was, and they're still alienating this ally when they embraced how they came into office. it is very incoherent, that is

the problem and i think when you're seeing someone as close to donald trump as mike pompey owe is, it is showing how difficult rex tillerson's job was. you're trying to go out into in make sense of american policy to our allies. >> almost sympathetic. thank you for spending an hour with us. >> coming up, a busy travel weekend ahead for candidates trying to get in early with democratic voters. early with democratic voters. i can't tell you who i am or what i witnessed, but i can tell you liberty mutual customized

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the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. >> my vision for the future of the united states is that we be the smartest, the healthiest, the fairest and the most prosperous nation in the world. >> that is pamela harris who apparently has a important announcements to make in the next few days. i wonder what they are going to say. along with them, it is crowded in iowa and new hampshire. sherrod brown has big plans for a big trip to iowa and elizabeth warren is ready for a big weekend in new hampshire. i don't care who it is, i hope y'all pick somebody that can beat trump. >> that is something every democrat wants to see. >> are they going to vote that way, though?

>> that is a big question, you will see it come out in the debates. you saw it in 2004. i don't know if they're as motivated to vote against bush as they are against trump -- >> that is an incredible statement. >> they were angry about bush. when you look at the candidates that are about to announce, one of the things democratic voters will be blessed with is enormous diversity. we have old, young, black, white, brown. there is everything that you can choose from, the democratic debates compared to the republican party debates four years ago -- >> i take the diversity point, but look at what happened to us with 17 -- are you worried about that number of candidates. >> they weren't diverse, and i debt that, do you worry there are too many choices? >> no. i think this is the point in our party where we need to have a big conversation about what the party believes in. >> we need plenty of time to wrap it up for everyone to get

behind one. >> plenty of time for that, but we have to have the conversation. >> remember the base of the democratic party looks very different than the base of the republican party. you have a lot of candidates who represent, who look like that base and have to learn -- >> they look like america. >> -- they have to speak to all the members of the base. itis very different when you have people on the stage saying the same thing and having donald trump smash them on the head. it's going to be a different feel and wrap up more quickly. >> do you think the primary donors, do you think those things matter any more? >> yes, they matter in terms of whittling down the field, getting people in place. i don't think democrats want a protractive fight like last time. >> all right. we are going to sneak in the last break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. reak don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. -welcome. -[ gasps ] a bigger room?! -how many of you use car insurance?

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my thanks to kim atkins and matt miller and jeremy bash. that does it for our hour. i'll see you back here monday. so what's stopping them? let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. at midnight tonight the longest government shutdown in u.s. history. here's what i heard when i called the white house before the show. >> we apologize, d