we are at the top of the hour which means i'm out of time. i'm welcomes whit. up next, morgan ratford. >> thank you to you and everyone out there happy sunday to you, i'm morgan radford right here in new york city. concealing conversations, accusations that president trump took notes from translators during private meetings with vladimir putin. both senior white house officials and state department officials left in the dark. this 24 hours after learning

that the fbi was concerned that president trump was actually working for russia. this afternoon a look at this administration's foreign policy, reaction from the president himself and the new warning issued to mr. trump. plus, keeping you safe. concern over security at our nation's airports during the government shutdown. from check-in to the food you eat to tracking your flight. we'll talk about all the possible risks before you take to the skies. but first, we start with another bomb shell report about president trump. according to "the washington post," the president has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with russian president vladimir putin. concealing details from senior officials in his own administration and the paper adds that he went as far as to take his interpreter's notes at the one of those meetings and instructed him not to discuss what transpired with other officials. the president not taking this report lightly. he pushed back on the posts allegations in a telephone

interview just last night. >> are you now or have you ever worked for russia, mr. president? >> i think it's the most unsulting thing i've ever been asked. i think it's the most insulting article i've ever had written. >> all right. so all of this, of course, comes just one day after "the new york times" reported that the fbi opened an inquiry into whether trump was secretly working on behalf of russian interest. joining me now msnbc white house correspondent geoff bennett. this has been a tough two days for the president. how is the white house responding to this washington post report? >> reporter: hey, morgamorgan. president trump is misdismissing this post report that he sought to conceal conversations with his conversations with president putin. he couldn't careless, that's a quote f the details of his discussions with putin were released. morgan, that's what the president is saying now. back then, some time ago, according to the post, as you

just mentioned, the president it's reported went to great lengths to keep secret the details of whatever he talked about with putin. the post reports that there are a lack of detailed records for at least five face-to-face interactions between president trump and vladimir putin and additional reported detail about the president taking those notes from an interpreter who was in the room for at least one of those encounters. you asked about the white house response, here is what white house press secretary sarah sanders had to say about this. she says "the washington post" story is so outrageously inaccurate it doesn't warrant a response. the liberal media wasted two years trying to manufacture a fake collusion scandal instead of reporting the fact unlike president obama who let other foreign adversaries push america around, president trump has been tough on russia. not a direct denial. i would point out, we still don't know precisely what president trump talked about with putin during that now

infamous helsinki summit publicly we saw the president at least initially stand up for putin and take his side, his explanation for russia's interference in the 2016 election. so you now have the new democratic chair of the house foreign affairs committee. he says his committee is going to hold hearings into the mystery swirling around president trump's relationship with vladimir putin. morgan? >> the white house doubling down on its defense today. geoff bennett live at the white house. geoff, thanks so much. let's bring in your panel, betsy woodruff, nancy cook, and jill covin. betsy, let's start with you. the optics of this they really just aren't good. you have the president in the midst of this historic shutdown and washington post report saying the president had these hidden conversations with a foreign adversary. so given the damaging nature of this report and what we just heard from geoff, what do you think is going on behind the

scenes at the white house today? >> beyond the optics the substance of this also are hugely troubling for people in the intelligence community and the national security space in washington. part of the reason and piece of context that makes this story so disturbing to so many people who work in national security is that we already know that when the president has these private sort of unmonitored conversations with prominent world leaders, he sometimes makes decisions that are hugely consequential. remember, it was a conversation he had with turkish president erdogan maybe about a month and half or two months ago where he decided spur of the moment, rejecting advice from his own national security advisers to announce that the united states would withdraw thousands of troops from syria. that's an extremely consequential decision that had great consequences or will have significant consequences for that rejond and was really impactful on his own cabinet. part of the reason defense secretary mattis stepped down from his post was because trump made that decision. if that's what trump is doing in conversations with erdogan,

imagine what types of agreements, promises or commitments he might be making in these secret, unmonitored, private, covert talks he's having with putin. >> betsy, you make an interesting point when you talk about not only the consequences but what it sounds like you're describing the impulsivity that can come from some of this secre secrecy. nancy, i want to play some of the president's phone interview just last night where he said he has nothing to hide with his conversations with putin. take a listen. >> why not release the conversation that you had with president putin in helsinki? >> i would. i don't care. i had a conversation like every president does. i'm not keeping anything under wraps. i couldn't care less. i mean, it's so ridiculous. >> i just say, nancy, my question might be similar to janine's if trump says there's nothing going on with him and putin, why not be more transparent in the first place and allow more officials in the room? >> yeah. i mean, it's not even transparency with the general public. you have to keep in mind, it's transparency with other top officials in the government who

have security clearance who typically in past administrations and the obama administration and the bush administration would have been privy to those meetings and those notes taken by a translator. there would have just been more people in the room. and so i think this raises a ton of questions about what the president's interactions with vladimir putin is like and also why there is that level of secrecy. it's also just noteworthy that this information is coming out. the fact that we know about this means that u.s. officials are concerned enough that they are raising these red flags with the press. i think that's why you've seen disparage of reports that's been damaging to the white house. >> you mention also the cabinet officials being kept out of the dark. i want to play you some sound from secretary mike pompeo. this is what he said in response to "the new york times" article. >> the notion that president trump is a threat to national security is absolutely ludacris. the idea that's contained "the new york times" story that president trump was a threat to

american national security is silly on its face and not worthy of a response. >> so jill, this question is for you. we keep hearing these words, ridiculous as pompeo says. sit ridiculous or extraordinary considering this is an inquiry about the president of the united states? >> it's absolutely extraordinary and unprecedented and clearly the law enforcement officers at the fbi, at the dodge saw a pattern that they thought was alarming enough that it merited opening this investigation and we know from the new york time report that that investigation has since been looped into the broader mueller inquiry about russian interference in the election. these are not decisions that law enforcement takes lightly. the times story included a lot of concerns raised by investigators about how that would look. they understand when they're going in there to potentially investigate the president what a bomb shell that would be, how politically sensitive that is and the fact that if the times report is true that if they did choose to go forward is such an indication of the seriousness of their concerns.

>> but you also mentioned the political sensitivity, especially when it comes to the mueller report. so betsy considering now both reports, how do you think this is going to impact the mueller investigation? >> it certainly puts more pressure on the investigation from congressional republicans who have been looking for ways to stymy it from day one. it also provides additional significance to the fact that democrats flipped the house in november. if republicans were still in control in the house, we could expect significant more efforts to med until that investigation, to get more information about its findings before mueller wanted to release that information in particular from the congressional committee on oversight and government reform as well as the house intelligence committees. those two committees both of which claim jurisdiction over the mueller probe, if they had been helmed by republicans would handle this totally differently. at the same time, of course, we can expect more heat from the president directed at mule memp if trump sees this as some sort of confirmation or indication that mueller is investigating him because of his connections with russians, then that's

something that could make him even more skiddish and even more angry and vocal about this investigation. >> which nancy, given that, give us also some context because we have this shutdown now entering its 23rd day and the president has been in d.c. this weekend tweeting all day about the border wall. but there still doesn't seem to be an end in sight. who really is losing in this shutdown battle, nancy? is it trump or is it house speaker nancy pelosi and frankly where is mitch mcconnell in all of this? >> well, mitch mcconnell has really kept a low profile. i think that he realizes that this is a faulty endeavor for republicans, but there were two really interesting polls that have come out over the weekend was one was a cnn poll and both showed that majority of americans are holding the president and republicans responsible for the shutdown. that is a huge number. we also saw trump's disapproval rating tick up about 5 percentage points. so the latest data shows us that

the white house is -- this is not a winning argument for them. there's not a clear path for them to save face and get out of this. and the american public is starting to get angry and really hold them responsible. people in the white house, you know, i talked to a bunch of folks yesterday, people are not sure how this is going to end and how the white house and the president are going to get themselves out of this box. >> and speaking of this box, betsy, i have to ask you, it seems like the president always wants to control the narrative, but now both of these bomb shell reports are not really allowing him to do that. do you think that's why he's focussing on these reports and not really talking as openly now about the shutdown? >> i think that's certainly plausible. the other thing we have to remember with trump is he's an extremely reactive person. going back to years before he was in the political spheres, if you -- i spent a lot of time going through his tweets when he first announced he was running for president. one of the things that stood out to me every single big pop culture story that broke from about 2000 to 2015, there was probably a trump tweet about it.

well, starting in the later 2000s once twitter was put in place, but you talk about stuff like katy perry, the twilight stars breaking up. >> feels like a life time ago. >> if things were prominent, trump was tweeting about them. he can't resist inserting himself into whatever the media is paying attention to. so when stories like this about him come forward, he just can't help himself when it comes to sounding off, trying to comment, trying to be part of it instead of following the advice of the legal folks around him who tell him maybe it would behoove him to dial it back. >> he imagines to keep himself front and center. thank you all so much for joining us. >> sure thing. and coming up, secretary of state mike pompeo is saudi arabia right now to immediate with saudi leaders in the wake of the murder of american journalist jamal khashoggi. what might the future of u.s./saudi relations look like? we're live just after the break. ?

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thanks so much for joining us and welcome back to msnbc, i'm morgan radford. secretary of state mike pompeo is in saudi arabia to meet with officials on the heels of american intelligence agencies accusing mohammed bin salman of ordering the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi. president trump is actively working to conceal details of his meeting with russian president vladimir putin.

joining me now is andrea mitchell. andr andrea, can you tell us what is the latest? >> the latest is basically that we're waiting on what kind of reactions pompeo is going to get here in his meetings with saudi officials. he's already met with the former foreign minister, meeting him on arrival and some other officials, the ambassador from saudi arabia to the u.s. who is the younger brother of the crown prince and the ambassador to the u.s. but was recalled after all of the outcry from congress in particular over the khashoggi murder. there is a real issue here as to how tough pompeo is going to be. he says that it was horrendous and that he will bring it up, but he has also spoken of the larger relationship being so important. the other interesting, complicating factor is that he comes here from qatar, the country, neighboring gulf

country who has been in dispute with saudi arabia and signed an agreement there to enlarge the american military base the largest in the region. there could be some sensitivity here in saudi arabia about this connection with qatar. the u.s. has been trying to resolve this dispute between two very important allies but yet to do that and it's been a year and a half. >> but, andrea, switching gears, though, just for a moment. the other big story we're all talking about state side, how are these new revelations about president trump and russia now being received on the world stage? >> well, the world stage may be one thing, but certainly the secretary of state coming out very forcefully today, denying it, calling it preposterous following the white house line. so they are not acknowledging that this is an issue, but from my conversations with nato leaders w other leaders around the world, this has been a growing problem only exacerbated by those revelations.

i've been here in since that story broke, but in talking to people, this further weakens the u.s., already weakened by the president's precipitous announcement of a withdrawal from syria to the surprise and dismay of his defense secretary who resigned in protest and then confusing and conflicts messages from the national security adviser and the secretary of state on the syria withdrawal and also just tonight iran threatened to restart its nuclear weapons enrichment, which has been in abeyance since the nuclear weapons deal was agreed to two years ago, more than two years ago. so that is another complicating factor. there is a lot of turmoil in this region and a lot on this secretary's plate. how he handles this is really going to be a big challenge. >> and andrea, given all of these complicating factors, as you just mentioned, can you please underscore for us how rare it is for a sitting president to be under fbi

investigation like this? >> well, certainly very rare. we know that richard nixon faced impeachment and therefore was impeached by the house, didn't face senate trial and resigned in a deal that was negotiated because he was under investigation. agnew resigned after being under fbi investigation and after they proved that they had the goods on him, taking cash inside the white house. we don't know the details of this. nbc news has not indentally confirmed this but we know certainly that robert mueller has been investigating him as a target. what we don't know is fully what extent that was a counterintelligence investigation but certainly seems as though all of the counterintelligence people we know were the top people at the fbi were working on it as well as, of course, the obstruction issues. the new information is that these two issues are blended. they're merged.

and we're coming at the same time and coming at a very early stage in his presidency and that certainly weakens him. leaders around the world are asking, is donald trump going to survive in office? is he going to be on the ticket for re-election as one would expect he would certainly started his re-election campaign immediately after taking office. morgan, you covered politics and i cover politics and foreign policy, this is unusual to say unprecedented except for the nixon example and to say the least it is very unsettling to the american situation in the world. >> and when you mention how unsettling it is, andrea, how is the global stage reacting to our shutdown? >> well, people, leaders whom i've spoken to at very high levels, ambassadors and others on the diplomatic front, are just really dismayed by what

they see. they see a president who has cozied up to vladimir putin in their view, who has not criticized him, has not disclosed fully to his own cabinet what happened in that meeting in helsinki. they see a leader who announces a withdrawal from syria without a national security counsel meeting, about any deliberation about the unintended consequences. turkey sees the national security adviser going and trying to make amends to israel and thereby upsetting turkey by declaring that we will stay in syria long enough to protect the syrian kurds. turkey is about enemy, he calls them terrorists who have been our allies. we trained them. they're our proxies on the ground there. so all of this including the withdrawal which robs us of good, valuable intelligence as well as ground forces and by the way, neither france nor britain were given any heads up he was going to announce a withdrawal.

>> from the latest on the fbi investigation to those upcoming meetings in riyad, thank you for being with us. live in riyadh, a pleasure. let me turn now to democratic freshman congresswoman from california katie hill. it's been a while since i last interviewed you and came out to california to speak with you. so let me play you some sound from mike pompeo yesterday on cbs "fact te the nation". i want to get your take. >> it's absolutely ludicrous. >> he says it's ludicrous, katie. what is your reaction to what we're learning this weekend? >> well, i don't know where to start on how trump is a threat to national security. the one that i've been so fixated on lately is the shutdown and the impacts that has on our national security. my district is home to the palm dale air traffic control center which controls the flights that are going in and out of southern california, all of the major

airports. and when you're talking about people who aren't getting paid, the support staff that aren't there, that is a real security threat. that means that crashes could happen, that all kinds of mishaps could occur that risk people's lives. to me that's the most basic threat to national security. then you talk about all of the things that are happening at the border in terms of the lack of agents, the lack of support staff, especially when he's talking about how that should be our focus and how he's saying there's a didisaster, you can't say that with a straight face when you're refusing to pay people and furloughing people. it's just ridiculous. >> i want to stay on the border for a minute, as you just mentioned. we know that president trump has been very active on twitter since that new york times report that we just talked about, but today he had this tweet that really struck me. he tweeted, democrats are saying that daca is not worth it and don't want to include it in talks. many hispanics will be coming over to the republican side. watch. all right.

so congresswoman hill, it sounds like he's really dangling this daca deal to democrats to get this wall. would you ever support that to reopen the government? >> well, first of all, we have to stop using this term the wall. he has taken major steps back from that and i think the more we fixate on the term the wall the less productive any conversations are going to be. we need to change the frame. we have to say this is about border security and accomplishing the things that we want to on the democratic side. border security has always been a priority for democrats, and we are currently in a place where for years democrats have been saying that we should have additional support in terms of personnel and technology, you know, we need to clean up the immigration backlog and all of those other issues, but yes, in some cases physical barriers will be part of that. and i think that when he's not even using the term the wall anymore, we should see that as a win. he's finally i don't know someone has gotten to him or his advisers are saying, yeah, 2,000

foot medieval wall is not going to work and never was and let's stop pretending it is. you appeared on cnn to discuss the border wall. i want to play a piece of that interview for our audience. >> i will definitely i don't know if it's steel, i will vote for some money for physical barriers. it's not going to be across the entire 2000 mile stretch and it certainly not going to be a concrete wall. >> okay. so you didn't say a concrete wall but you were talking about border barriers. what exactly is the difference at this point? >> well, the difference is really important. we have to remember we have a lot of barriers down at the border. we should be talking to experts at the border the sheriffs, the border patrol agents the mayors and the local communities that are impacted at the border to say what's needed? where does it make sense for us to have -- to close gaps that might be between these barriers? if you'll remember last year, almost exactly a year ago there was this piece of legislation called the uniting and securing america act that was introduced

by my colleagues congressman herd and aguilaaguilar. it would invest in technology, invest in personnel at the border and in some cases where appropriate invest in additional barriers. so i think -- but in exchange for that, we get these other pieces that we really need including that piece of legislation would have included daca protections and also included investing into that immigration backlog and providing that humanitarian aspect that we need at the border and then also addressing some of the root problems in central america that are leading people to flee and come here in an increasing way. >> and how do you convince your party speaker nancy pelosi who says she does not want any money going for these walls or barriers, how do you convince her that you would be willing to put money towards this? >> we're not going to give anything at all when the president is holding people hostage. right now he's holding the american people hostage in a lot

of different ways, particularly those 800,000 federal employees who are law enforcement officials who are not getting paid. i'm seeing the effects of that in an incredibly devastating way in my community, in my district. so the first answer is that we're not going to negotiate on anything at all until we reopen the government. then, let's have that conversation. we have a large caucus the democratic caucus is very diverse in terms of our perspectives how we address a number of issues including border security and immigration. let's air it out and see where we can come to a consensus between all of us and our republican colleagues and ultimately that's the kind of deal we need to put forward. we have some samples from the last time around that we could start with including perhaps this herd/aguilar proposal. let's do this in the way that legislation is supposed to happen and supposed to work. and reopen the government first and then we can talk. >> reopen the government and these on going conversations. katie hill, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon.

>> thank you for having me. >> my pleasure speaking with you again. coming up the white house slamming that bomb shell new york times report about fbi investigations into whether president trump was working with the russians. but the question is, was all this happening without the president's knowledge? we'll talk about the legal implications coming up next. our dad was in the hospital. because of smoking. but we still had to have a cigarette. had to. but then, we were like. what are we doing? the nicodermcq patch helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. nicodermcq. you know why, we know how.

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new this afternoon, democrats in congress are giving president trump a warning. the chairman of the house oversight committee issuing a statement, saying in part the president should make no statement or take any action to obstruct congress's independent oversight and investigative efrts, including by seeking to discourage any witness from testifying in a response to a dually authorized request from congress. this is after these comments from the president just last night. >> trying to get his sentence reduced so it's pretty sad. it's weak. and it's very sad to watch a thing like that. i couldn't care less. >> but should the president be concerned? joining me now is former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid and katie fang. let's start with you, barbara. this new warning to the president from the house oversight committee, did the president actually do more harm with yesterday's comments?

>> yeah. i think when you've got someone in the position of power of the president of the united states who makes forceful statements criticizing those who would come forward with information, that can be seen as witness intimidation. i don't know that it goes so far as the crime of obstruction of justice when he makes those statements because it's so open and notorious, but imagine if you are the person on the receiving end of those kinds of statements, you can't help but feel a little cowed by those statements. instead, what most presidents say, what most leaders say is i welcome the investigation. i encourage your quest for the truth and people should share information fully because i am not afraid of the truth. and i will be completely exonerated. that's not what this president does. chi think is what causes people to become even more suspicious. so i think the democrats are within their rights to suggest to him that he ought to stand down so that they can continue their work to find the truth. >> i think that's a powerful point you make about being unafraid of the truth. and katie, i want to turn to

that report of a counterintelligence investigation into whether president trump is secretly working on behalf of russia. senator graham says he's beginning to ask christopher wray about the count intelligence investigation. my question to you is will the fbi have to answer to congress on this issue? >> well, there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we as the american public are not privy to and there's a reason why, morgan. you have to protect the secrecy, the confidential yity to allow that investigation to unfold and proceed effectively and really so that justice can be achieved. what's exceptional about this new york times article that came out is not so much so the fact that now possibly trump is being viewed as a russian asset but it unveils more of the tappestry of the mueller investigation because we know that robert mueller took over the counterintelligence component of that fbi investigation when he was appointed special counsel. and so i think it lends itself some more vision into why robert mueller is doing what he's

doing. there's a lot of questions, there's a lot of criticism about the amount of time it's taken for the mueller report to be issued and for him to complete his investigations. now we know that robert muler is not just looking into whether or not the firing of james comey was obstruction of justice but he could investigate whether or not president donald trump is, was and currently acting as a russian asset. >> katie, you mentioned the tapestry. walk us through how the president became a target of an fbi investigation. what did law enforcement see that essentially got him to this place? >> well, to open an investigation on anybody in terms of a counterintelligence investigation, there's sort of three kinds and three categories of preliminary assessment. i doubt that's what they were looking at here, sort of a threat assessment to see what's happening. it seems that in this category we either would have had a preliminary investigation or a full investigation, which requires something known as predication. that means facts or

circumstances that would cause someone to believe that these allegations are true. and that there is something that needs to be investigated here. but when it's the president of the united states, i have to think that they would have gone to the highest levels of the fbi and the department of justice before opening such an investigation because there is never in the history of the country been such a target of such sensitivity and such magnitude. it may be the things that are known publicly, like the firing of james comey and the comments about the relieving of great pressure and the statements to lester holt, but i have to believe that there are additional facts known to the fbi that are not publicly known before they would take that extraordinary step of opening an investigation. there could be many things that they learned from the intelligence community, from our foreign allies or from signals intelligence that would confirm all of that which is in the public domain. >> barbara, you mentioned this concept of predication. katie, going back to what you said earlier. if there is, in fact, a

counterintelligence investigation that's part of special counsel mueller's probe, how does that effectively change things? >> well, it ends up being a part of the ultimate outcome or the conclusions that are made by special counsel, which kind of leads us down the road towards something like bill barr who we know is the nominee by donald trump for attorney general, his confirmation hearings begin tomorrow, morgan. we're all watching it with captivation. we want to know kpa exactly bill barr is going to do what he would do about robert mueller's report. if it is a part of the counterintelligence investigation and if it's still on going or being concluded that report may end up being exactly what the american public needs to know about what exactly were exactly what barbara talks about those underlying facts that gave rise to this investigation into the sitting president of the united states, which is an incredible precedent that we're looking at today which nobody could have predicted at least in any of our life times.

>> essentially and hopefully chipping away at some of that secrecy. barbara and katie, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you. coming up next, troubled times for president trump. the shutdown, the russia investigation and allegations of concealing his conversations with vladimir putin, this is just to name a few. so how do president trump's troubles really compare to past presidencies? i'll ask doris kearns goodwin next. win next because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz xr. a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. xeljanz xr can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, low blood cell counts, higher liver tests and cholesterol levels.

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welcome back. thank you so much for joining us. i'm morgan radford here at msnbc headquarters in new york. president trump under increased scrutiny this afternoon fom following a washington post report effectively saying he tried to conceal portions of five of his face-to-face meetings with vladimir putin over the past two years. now this all comes just a day after "the new york times" reported that the fbi was so concerned with the president's behavior following the firing of james comey that the bureau

opened up a former investigation into the president's ties to russia. now those block buster headlines coming in the midst of the longest government shutdown in u.s. history and robert mueller's investigation all of this happening. so joining us now to break it down is doris kearns goodwin. doris, give me some context here. we've seen the president waffle on whether or not to declare a national emergency. how do his demands for a border wall really compare to other presidents who called on this executive power? >> well, it's a big executive power to call on to have a national emergency. i think back to the moment when fdr in 1941 called for unlimited national emergency for a real crisis what was happening with western europe being subjugated to the nazis. but in order to get our help, he had to get through the isolationism in our country.

fdr gave a 44 minute talk to the country, unlike the nine-minute talk that president trump gave. it was filled with an explanation as to why europe's fate was our fate. and it was so successful that after it public opinion changed and people realized that even if we didn't want to get involved in europe's war, he had to start making planes and tanks, start making cars in our country, increase the size of the army and the navy. that's the responsibility of a president when you've got something like that to focus. everybody was glued to their radios. 8 out of 10 people, but how can we focus now? we have the shutdown, we have the national emergency, we have obstruction, we have the idea of russia's involvement. it just means that one dizzying headline is preventing even him for having a bully pulpit to try to make a case that's not filled with many facts but at least could make his case. >> which was interesting because you mentioned the changing public opinion. you're an expert on turbulent times and these are turbulent times for president trump, but is it truly unprecedented?

have we seen times like this before even beyond fdr in the oval office? >> without a question we can take history as solace. a lot of people stop me on the streets and say have there ever been worse times than this? of course it was worse for abraham lincoln he had to take over and the country was falling apart. >> all right. i think we lost doris there. but hopefully we can bring her back and continue discussing. we'll have much more after this. doris kearns goodwin, we were just speaking with and hope to get more from her on the history of this presidency and context. coming up, growing concerns of the safety of air travel as the government shutdown continues. air traffic controllers and tsa agents are not getting paid. this is all while they continue to work to keep our skies safe. so how long can that last? is it sustain snbl a former faa administrator weighs in coming up next. a administrator weighs in coming up next. nt. they really appreciate the military family and it really shows. with all that usaa offers

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(mom) nooooo... (dad) nooooo... (son) nooooo... (avo) quick, the quicker picker upper! bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. [son loudly clears throat] [mom sighs] [mom and dad laugh] (avo) bounty, the quicker picker upper. the aviation industry is experiencing some unexpected turbulence during the longest government shutdown in u.s. history. thousands of air traffic controllers and tsa screeners are among the federal employees continuing to work without pay. now, across the country, tsa reports 7.7% of its work force called out sick just yesterday and that's the highest during this shutdown. and with no end in sight, the national air traffic controller's association has now filed a lawsuit alleging the government is unlawfully depriving their members of their

paychecks. so joining me now to discuss this is former faa administrator around current ceo of rolls-royce of north american marian blakely. among those faa workers who have been furloughed are the workerse thousands of aviation sifty inspectors. how is the shutdown affecting frankly the security of our travel system? >> i don't think the security of the travel system is being compromised at this point. frankly, the faa, tsa, the airline industry, there are way too many professionals and first and foremost the air traffic controllers who simply were not allow safety to be compromised, but we can't have this go on a lot longer. it is a very serious situation, if people continue to miss paychecks. it's a very stressful thing, and this is not a group of people we want to be under extra stress. >> when you describe the safety concerns, are there any -- is there anything that passengers

should be concerned about? >> i'm going to fly on tuesday. so, no. i don't think so. i think everyone should be prepared for a little bit more delays, perhaps. longer lines, perhaps. depends on the airport and the situation. also we have bad weather. places like washington. but i think as passengers we just need to be patient and understand that this is a tough time for those that are delivering. >> and interrupt you a second, because you mentioned washington. this is a live picture of reagan national airport. we've seen these workers calling out sick, there are long lines. even though you say passengers are safe, you're flying tuesday what about the longterm effects of a shutdown in the industry like this? longer lasting things we may not even be anticipating. >> there are. what you find tshs is, it is ve costly to rev things back um,

a and a lot of people support the tsa workers and air traffic coalers that aren't there. it's like working without support. it's not a good thing, and the training that goes on virtually all of that has stopped. so it does cause long-term problems, and it has ramifications, and it's very costly for the people and their own lives as well as obviously the government. >> you mentioned training support and it being costly, but given the historical context, this is the longest shutdown we've seen. how has the faa previously handled shutdowns? >> very professionally but you pointed out, they have been shorter and it does matter. at this point having missed a paycheck, everyone, soldiers, and all are professionals to the core, but it is distracting if you find on day like tomorrow, for example in washington when you don't have schools in.

maybe you don't have the money for childcare. you miss a mortgage payment. these are people just like you and me. they're not trust fund babies and don't have a lot to rely on any more than most of us do when it comes to missing really expected, steady income. >> certainly a personal toll as the shutdown continues. marian blakely, thank you so much for joining us. >> you're welcome. coming up tonight, msnbc's headliners look at senator elizabeth warren. will her jump-start on a president's build give her an netsch what is expected to be a crowded democratic field? watch the special how with joy reid tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc.

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all righty. hello to you on a sunday. i'm richard lui and russia, russia, russia. the new york report on the investigation into whether the president was working for russia was not a lot to take in we have this -- the "washington post" saying the president kept what he and vladimir putin talked about during their meeting with even his own officials. >> a one-on-one meet wig putin like many worevery other world . we talked about positive things because, look, we are beating everybody. >> it is day 23 of the government shutdown. we are starting a fourth week of the shutdown and according to a new poll, president trump and republicans are getting most of the blame. >> i don't wholeheartedly agree with giving trump money for the wall but we need to come together with a solution and open the government up.

>> and democrats are starting to line up to take on president trump in 2020. the expected and unexpected announcements from hopefuls this weekend. we'll start with a historic and, oh my god, 24 hours for you. the question growing louder. is president trump working for russia against the united states? the "new york times" says at least two things blew open an unprecedented, historic counterintelligence investigation on president trump himself to see if he was flect by russia. james comey wanted to do this and trump told him he was not under investigation and the nbc news interview by lester holt saying russia was why comey was fired. experts say that is only the beginning. >> it's not something done in a vacuum. it's not some silly decision made by a couple of agents in a

break room one day. this requires levels of approval, legal review. >> then this happened overnight. the "washington post" reports president trump went to great lengths to conceal details of meetings with russia's president. and it happened at least five different times. last night the president appeared on his friend judge jeanine pirro's show on fox news and piro asked if the president was working for russia against the united states. the president then said the question was insulting but also said this about why fbi leadership was fired. >> andrew mccabe, peter strzok, his lover lisa page, they it, and, you know, they're all gone. most of those people, many, many people, from the top ranks of the fbi, they've all been fired or had to leave and they're all gone. this is what they were talking about. >> of note, the president did not say yes or no to that question. joining us now,