he probably won't, because he will incur the wrath of the president quicker. there is no one that will come in that is not just a trump lackey, anyone that has a feeling that the rule of law will be different. >> that does it for our hour. "mtp daily" starts now. >> it doesn't get any weirder than today, does it? maybe it does. nicole, thank you so much. if it is monday, it's a denial for the history books. good evening, i'm katie turr in for chuck todd. we begin tonight with the same

stomach churning question that may have been at the center of bob mueller's investigation on day one. is the president of the united states a russian agent? let the sheer weight of this moment sink in. we have the president of the united states today having to publicly deny working for one of our most hostile foreign adversaries. >> i never worked for russia and you know that answer better than anybody. i never worked for russia. not only did i never work for russia, i think it is a disgrace that you even asked that question, it's all a big fat hoax. >> as if this real life episode of "homeland" could not get crazier. it came after the president didn't deny working for russia when speaking to fox fuse. his own justice department

sought to determine whether or not he was knowingly working for russia. an inquiry that according to the times was handed to rothenberg mueller upon his appointment of special council back in may of 2017. where mueller took that inquiry is of course the million dollar question. but given the president's well documented putin apologizing f.b.i. bashing, nato attacking, and mueller under mimining behavior, i don't know what is more disturbing, if he is an agent or if he isn't. we were going to try to boric a former cia chief and former defense secretary and a former white house chief of staff, luckily we got all in one. joining me is leon pinetta. he also served as white house chief of staff to bill clinton among other positions. also with us is evelyn farcus,

the obama's top expert. and harry litman, former assistant attorney general. mr. pinetta, i want to get your pin first on the report that the fbi was so concerned about trump's motivations that they opened an investigation into whether or not he was a russian agent. >> well, to a great extent, based on my experience, i don't -- i'm not surprised that the fbi could raise that kind of investigation. whether it was their criminal investigation or a counter intelligence investigate,ion, i think there was legitimate questions raised not only in the firing of comey and the fact that he related that to the

russian investigation, but also the other factors involved. the russian interference in the election. and the other statements that the president made with regards to putin. it just raised questions about if there was concern for the president's relationship with russia. >> to open a counter intelligence investigation, you have to do that on more than a hunch. what is the bar that is needed. how high do you have to clear it in order to do this. >> it would not surprise me if the people at the justice department would -- if they were made aware of that kind of investigation, and interestingly enough, they were bush

appointees, whether it was the attorney general, the deputy attorney general, these were appointees by president trump. and they would have been in made aware of the fact that counter intelligence investigation is going to be conducted on whether or not there was any relationship here between the russians and the president of the united states, whether there was any basis of concern as to what influence the russians had on the president and the united states. whether or not the president was just doing this because of his own approach to politics, or weather whether he was doing it for the russians. this is what counter intelligence is all about. it is to make sure the security of the united states is being

protected. it does not surprise me that the fbi would look into the situation or that the bob mueller investigation is probably following up on that investigation as well. >> after helsinki, you told brian williams it was clear that russia had something on him because of the way he behaved, if you were still head of the cia and it was clear to you that the president of the united states was compromised in some way by russia, what would you be doing? >> i think it is the possibility of our law enforcement and our intelligence agencies to look into these issues, to make sure there is no relationship, and that any suspicions here are going to be fully investigated. russia is an adversary. let's understand this. russia is not our friend.

russia is an adversary. their whole purpose is to und undermine the stability of the united states. they're going to everything they can to weaken our countries. because they are our adversary, because they are our country that is trying to under mine our democracy and freedom, i think we have to take all necessary steps to make sure that they have not in any way been able to establish an undue influence in our country. the fact that they conducted the kind of effort they did to under mine the election tells us an awful lot about what the russians will do in order to under mine our stability. >> let's talk more about the way that donald trump has behaviored toward russia in the time since he has been president, not just the lead up for the campaign and

not just post comey firing. he did not have a top aid there to take notes, the only person there was an interpreter. he took the notes away from the interpreter, is there any explanation that you can muster, mr. panetta that would justify a president of the united states, that would make sense for the president of the united states to do that? >> i can't even begin to think of a legitimate reason that the president would do that. every president, certainly in my history, and in washington, every president who has met with an adversary like putin and russia, goes into that meeting usually with other responsible officials, the national security advisor, whether it was the secretary of state, and with

notetakers in regard to that discussion. they want to share those notes and conversation with other policymakers within the administration. they also want to share them with our allies so they know what the president is talking to putin about. in this instance, to have a situation where the president not only meets one on one gu also takes the notes of an interpreter so there is no record with regards to that conversation raises a number of serious questions that i don't think in any way can be justified for being destroyed. >> just one important note on the new york times reporting about the fbi investigation as to whether or not he could have been a russian as set, there has been no public confirmation that anything was found there, of course, we would not necessarily know if something was found, but it is important to point that out.

evelyn, you were the top russia expert for the obama administration, presumably you know what a russian asset looks like. the actions that donald trump has been taking, the behavior that he displayed toward russia, the reporting from over the weekend, does that fit that particular pro file for you? >> yes, i conducted a meeting at my level with a russian official. my counter parts spoke inlish. i took her notes forcibly, but he would have fired me and reported me to the cia. so i mean, it is highly unusual. one is the fact that he is having the meeting and he doesn't want staff in the room, but the fact that he doesn't want a record and he doesn't want the interpreter to provide her notes to anyone.

we should know that the interpreter notes are just notes that they use so they can continue to do their stream of consciousness they're not notes of the conversation. when you're doing essentisimult translation, you're not being paying attention to what is said per se. the whole thing is super alarming, more alarming than the investigation into the president. and we can imagine that was happening and probably should have been started earlier under the obama administration. >> when you say it is more alarming than the "new york times" report, why is this the thing that raise sos many red flags for you. she contacting as an asset of russ russia. he is with holding l.

he is receiving information from vladimir putin. he could be wrong, he could be right. and he is saying things back to vladimir putin. we don't know what he is promising, so it is very dangerous. the russians are now transmitting this and i think it is interesting because a lot of what we knew coming out of the media about the trump campaigns interactions with interactions was coming because other parts of the intelligence community had access to russian intelligence. the russian negligence may be penetrated by our allied, so our allies may be getting information about what our president discusses or has discussed with president putin through those channels. you see what i'm saying, katie? it is very crazy, and they can use it against our president, so

let's say you're israel, our secretary of state doesn't know but the israelis can do it to brock mail president trump through say jared kushner. >> and just to go back to the campaign, part of what piqued their interest, he called on russia to find hillary clinton's e-mails, and he denied he was joking, and he had a campaign manager who had very deep ties to a politician in ukraine with very deep ties to the russians, to the kremlin, so all of these questions surfaced but we rr not getting any real answers about an investigation or how serious the committee was taking this until after the election. and it seems that we're getting more and more information as the administration goes on. if the president was being

looked at after the comey firing, and after that donald trump goes after the fbi, calls it a witch hunt, calls everyone in the intelligence community names, takes away the notes from the helsinki one on one, standing next to vladimir putin, withdraws from syria, our troops, or tries to withdraw from syria, under mines nato, refuses, or resists signing off on russian sanctions for the interference in our election. how do you go about an investigation like this as the president is behaving this way. >> right, i mean it is dizzying, and what you mentioned is just what is known to the public. to answer your first question to the secretary, the bureau did have to have some different

standards. and how you go about it, of course, there is even the threat hold question of whether you do. there is a deeply confounding point that the consumer ultimately of all intelligence that you gather as the fbi is the president of the united states. and it is a completely ungamely and unprecedented situation for do you be digging in his backyard without his knowing. but as you say, she acting to all appearances as a bon fide asset. but they can't leave it alone. so it is just a deeply crazy situation on the facts and on untrotted territory on the law. >> for the mueller investigation, we always talk about what we don't know that

robert mueller might have uncovered. what we do know already, what is publicly out there, is that enough for robert mueller to make a determination that the president was not working on behalf of the united states? >> well, he will have more and what is so interesting about this is that it essentially facts in plain view. it is a deep national security count count counter intelligence investigation. it is possible that he doesn't. you take action to neutralize a potentially risky asset of the russians. how do you do that with the president other than making it known and leaving it to congress. the normal methods for resolving uncertainty just don't apply.

to the leader of the executive branch. >> we always talk about the investigation having two tracks, collusion and obstruction. this raises the question on whether or not collusion is the obstruction. final question to you director panetta. can you think of an innocent explanation for all of this? >> look, you know, bob mueller is obviously the one that will provide hopefully the answers to the questions we have all discussed. but there is one of three paths here. one is that the president is an agent of russia. he would be frankly a very poor agent. the second is that he has some kind of secret plan to try to influence what russia does. but since this president lacks

experience and doesn't develop very much strategy, that one is hard to accept. thirdly that somehow he is operating as he always does in an ad hoc fashion without any facts, simply responding by his own gut reactions to what is happening. he knows the russians helped him in the election. this concerns him, but he is also trying to play to their fav favor. whether or not there is more to the issue will be up to bob mueller. >> for the last option does it make it better or worse? >> i think it raises a lot of concerns about whether or not this is a president of the united states who can truly protect the current and the defense of this country. >>. >> is he upholding what he vowed to do? that is a big question. thank you, guys, secretary leon panetta, great to have you.

evelyn and larry, great to have you as well. the panel, it's a good one, is next. the panel, it's a good one, is next she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪ our grandparents checked zero times a day. times change. eyes haven't. that's why there's ocuvite. screen light... sunlight... longer hours... eyes today are stressed. but ocuvite has vital nutrients... ...to help protect them. ocuvite. eye nutrition for today. i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride.

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my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. have you now or ever worked for russia? >> i think that is the most insulting question i have been asked and the most insulting article written. some white house aids expressed regret about the president's perform. specifically that he didn't outright deny it. joining me is brett stevens. we have a former contributor to hillary clinton, and a "new york times" political reporter,

nick, and, also an msnbc contributor. all right, is there is there, should we give the president the benefit of the doubt, is that just the way he speaks? >> i think this is a man who has not shown much conviction about lying or making things up. i can't believe on this important question it's the one thing he wanted top dodge on if is strange that he answered a question that wasn't asked. i will say i'm glad that he did read the article. >> this questions that been dominating this presidency since basically day one. is he a russian agent? what is going on with russia? we're 270 something days in and we have not answered it. >> i think it is tap danced around when there are questions

about the investigation that are leaking out. we have long known that there was intricate financial dealings with the trump family and russia. i think we have been dancing around what the developments girl confirmed. i thought the first thing that start ds on are friday is what rod rosenstein came out, he said there will be moments in the future where we have to come together as americans, that was many many months ago, but he could have potentially known that the fbi launched into this

investigation. also that story that he leaked into new context. there was a lot of serious allegations. >> there is no good explanation. the horrifying explanation is that the president is an agent of russia. it is a term that has been used by trade and crafts. i think the troouth is probablyn between. you always get a sense that there is a kind of intimation of fear. that someone has something on him and she not sure how we should behalf at any given

moment. >> it is a truth of somewhere in between. what does that say about us as a society. there are a number of us that say it is okay, we're going to let that go. or we'll outright defend it. >> any republican will say it and insinuate kind of thing. it is the president's idiotic -- i don't subscribe. let's imagine that the president is who he is except he is a democrat. i know exactly what they would be saying, what they would be editorializing, that is when it would have exploded. >> yeah, spontaneous combustioc.

if he said after my election i will have new information, republicans went berzerk. compare that to the way this president runs things. >> what is the evidence of collusion or conspiracy through the campaign? was he actively or personally involved? we know there was many attempts at runs for the campaign what if what he said doesn't matter in 2016. that obstruction is the collusion. >> that is -- presumably mueller is looking into that? >> yes, he is looking into that.

part of his charge is the national security aspect of it. that is what we focus on in the media. there are very little details in terms of the counter intelligence aspects that you may not know. so that is what we could talk about, but this entire time, since the campaign, we know very well about the election and he still since the january of 2017 as engaged in conduct that is very sus pisht. is that how they went him to act this way. >> insisting that the interpreter sbrender the notes,

i can't think another instance where something like that has happened. note taking is just something that happened. >> they said they were worried act leaks. >> i think it is plausibility at that point. there had been leaked from some meetings with foreign leaders, i can laj that is a reason. >> they don't trust any staffers to walk into a meet k like that, not to tell the media what is happening. >> not one person in the administration. >> there was a point when he thought the whole committee was obama lovers spying on him. are there other examples that took that step when it wasn't the russian president. the other thing, the bigger deal, sorry, that is the other story. >> maybe he didn't need it at

all. my question is more about impeachment. it is a more realistic possibility today than it was on thursday? >> it is always a political question, but i think the evidence is mounted now on the core issue that is a mass of republicans. it is not about finance violations or any of those violations, is the president colludi colluding. that makes it more likely that you will find senate republicans not taking it seriously. >> i thought the that the idea that we need to wait for a smoking gun that proves collusion, and then question start talking about impeachment is the wrong way to look at this story. on one hand you have mueller doing the legal part of this investigation, but congress has it's own responsibility to ensure that. is it okay for the president to

be everything short of an asset of russia? is that okay? i don't think so. i think the american people want a president that behaved and acts on behalf of american interests. fe he is n if he not doing that, you need 67 votes to remove him anyway. can we start to at least open investigations into some of his private conduct, to try to get to some sort of answers about whether or not he is working on behalf of russia. he doesn't have to be an actual asset. >> i think it is a real question right now. how many senators, republicans, democrats alike are sitting there thinking about what they would be in the future. next, the democratic presidential field gets bigger and possibly more problematic. the 2020 vision is next. reacti

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welcome back tonight, it appears that hindsight can be 2020 when it comes to tial ambitions. >> i have decided to run and will be making a formal announcement in the next week. >> now that tulsie gabbert is under the spotlight, her credentials are taking a huge hit. even from a democrat in her own state. >> i'm looking for someone that has a long record of supporting progressive goals and ideals. >> it sounds like you don't think gabbert has done that. >> i wish her well, though. >> she was an activist against same sex marriage. now she says she regrets her past positions and her views on

lbgtq has evolved saying she a defender of equal rights. >> that feel is now also officially including former hud secretary julian castro. we'll be back with more "mtp daily" after this. "mtp daily" after this. ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ you might or joints.hing for your heart... it's the most wonderful life on earth. but do you take something for your brain. with an ingredient originally discovered in jellyfish, prevagen has been shown in clinical trials to improve short-term memory.

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welcome back, if anyone knows how a foreign agent would look and act, it would be someone that spent a decade at the cia working as a covert officer. congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us. as a former cia officer, a covert officer at that, what are the signs you look for that someone else might be an asset of a foreign country. >> notably i worked to recruit people to provide information to

the united states government, there was other people in counter intelligence that would look for people spying against us. we have tremendous group of fbi agents focused on that day in and day out that are not getting paid right now because of the shut down. while we're concerned with counter intelligence efforts, they're at essential work status and they're not getting paid because of the shut down. >> what signs do you look for specifically. >> so when i would be working with someone, providing information to the united states government, we were working with people who had a common interest to provide investigation to the united states government so we could make informed decisions. so detecting u.s. citizens that might be doing the opposite, there was not necessarily signs that we were looking for. our primary goal as a case officer was to meet with individuals that had valuable

information, talking about why the addition of that information was an asset to us. >> i want to get to the shut down, when you read the articles over the week. there was an investigation opened to find out if donald trump was working with russia, and he took the interpreters notes during that meeting with vladimir putin, as a lawmaker and a former cia officer, what is your reaction? >> my reaction to all of this is because it is very concerning. it is concerning to me that members of the fbi would be so worried about what they might have seen and have significant actionable items that they focused on and saw that they may be interested in works a case. they don't open cases likely and i respect their professionalism.

and the efforts they make. in conducting their investigations, particularly on something as serious as allegations offest p esfes esfe. what i do think is troubling is the top level diplomats and intelligence officials and a president that is interesting in isolating himself away from the expertise that so many people have developed for decades and decades, and the fact that particularly when sitting down with a foreign adversary nation, he would not take advantage of those resources from our intelligence community. >> you you spent time over the weekend talking to them, what do they want to see you do. >> they want to see the shut

down ended. they want to see me continue to advocate that we end the shut down. we we created talk about the crisis in the country, we have hundreds of thousands that are working in public service are at home. and their work is not getting done. >> do they want to see you fund the wall to open the government? >> they want to see government functioning and people talking to each other. it was not demands of i must do this this way or that way, i searchly do not want to begin walking down a path of disagreements between the administration and the legislative branch that we find ourselves at a juncture where we are putting employees on the

negotiation table. it should never happen, but the workers that i talked to, they told stories about the impact on their own, hud workers talking about the people they serve. the elderly, children, veterans. if they're not in the office to process tasks, it is happening to those individuals. i talked to prison personnel at the federal bureau of prisons that are getting taunted within the prisons by prisoners who know they're not getting paid and yet they go into work every day, perform their duties, work to keep the prisoners safe, themselves safe, and the stress is just tremendous, and the fact that we have fbi agents, 13,000 tasked with keeping them

protecting the border. they are working without pay, it is just unconci -- unbelievable. >> right now there is an impasse. what are you telling your constituents that you're doing to get them a paycheck? >> as of right now we talked about what it is that we had done starting on january 3rd. we voted on that bill that had been passed by have voice vote. passed with bipartisan support in the house. the senate lead der ner did not it up, the same bill that he

passed just weeking prios prior. it is up to mitch mcconnell to take that up, last week we went through it by by bit trying to lessen the impacts, the personal impact on families, and one by one as we passed these bills with increasing bipartisan support, at the end of the week i believe we had 12 and senator mcconnell did not take them up either. right now we're at a place where i'm continuing to advocate that we need to end the shut down, just weeks ago they supported the same bill that we voted for to pass and at this point the conversations need to continue. it is unbelievable. it is unacceptable that we would use federal employees as bargaining chips. and talking about border security, that is something we talk about border security. we need those conversations, but

we cannot decouple those things. we cannot allow employees to be bargaining tools in a discussion that is unrelated to their ability to go to work and perform their joshes. >> it is value led to point out they passed their clean cr, thank you for joining us. next, massive problems in a massive school district leading to a massive teacher walk out, next. massive teacher walk out, next ♪here you come again lookin' better than♪ ♪a body has a right to ♪and shakin' me up so applebee's all you can eat is back. now with shrimp. now that's eatin' good in the neighborhood. hi susan!hs) honey? i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad... try this new robitussin honey. the real honey you love... plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? new robitussin honey. because it's never just a cough.

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. right now los angeles is in the midst of a massive teacher strike. the first in 30 years. more than 30,000 teachers walked off of the job today after 20 months of failed negotiations with the school board. the teachers say it is not just about getting a pay raise, but it's about the welfare of their students. they're calling for a 6.5% salary increase. smaller class sizes, and more support staff like nurses and school counselors. in some schools there are as many as 46 students per classroom. a single classroom, no that is not an capital ration. sometimes there are not enough desks for everyone. california has the fifth largest economy in the world, but it ranks 41st in the nation on per student spending.

the district has a heavy minority population. 74% arelyty know and 8% get free or reduced lunch. school officials say they just don't have the money. the roots of the crisis goes back decades and the blame should be shared by everyone. the city, the district, the state, the taxpayer, and the parents that have increasingly pulled their kids out of the system decreasing enrollment and funding for everyone else. ecread funding for everyone else.

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-jamie, this is your house? -i know, it's not much, but it's home. right, kids? -kids? -papa, papa! -[ laughs ] -you didn't tell me your friends were coming. -oh, yeah. -this one is tiny like a child. -yeah, she is. oh, but seriously, it's good to be surrounded by what matters most -- a home and auto bundle from progressive. -oh, sweetie, please, play for us. -oh, no, i couldn't. -please. -okay. [ singing in spanish ] time now for the lid. the panel is back. brett, zerlina and nick. let's talk about steve king and the -- his inability to understand why white supremism is offensive to people. mitch mcconnell has just released a statement about it. he says there is no place in the republican party, the congress, or the country for an ideology of racial supremacy of any kind.

i have no tolerance for such positions, and those who espouse these views are not supporters of american ideals and freedoms. congressman king's statements are unwelcome and unworthy of his position. if he does not understand why white supremacy is offensive, he should find another line of work. if mitch mcconnell is saying it, does that mean there is a breaking point, or is this just a very sternly worded statement that won't change anything? >> well, ask yourself the question what that statement applied to the things donald trump has said, and i think that's the bigger question here. it's not that -- i think it's great that mitch mcconnell actually has condemned steve king at this moment. i was wondering the whole time where is the republican leadership on condemning racism in the republican party. and i don't say racially tinged or racially charged. it's racism. we have to call it that, because there are actual nazis in the street, right? we had charlottesville happen, and sometimes i think we forget that that happened. those were real actual nazis marching in the streets saying "jews will not replace us". as a black person, that's very

alarming to me. that's a five-alarm fire. it's not oh, it's just a little bit racially insensitive, right? we're talking about people who are saying your entire existence and humanity is something i want to annihilate. >> it's not racial hazing. you're right. >> we're not in a moment where somebody is saying something off-color. we're in an emergency moment where people of color are actually being harmed by an administration that deems them less than white people. and we have to say that. they're treating them that they through policy, not just through their rhetoric. >> you're making the essential point. look, obviously it's a good thing mitch mcconnell, other republican leaders are condemning what king has said. he has been saying this for a very long time. but the real question is why does the same analysis as you put it so eloquently not apply to the president? you have a president who in the words of paul ryan expressed what he called textbook racism by suggesting that a judge of mexican heritage was not fit to be a judge. i don't have you a president who

talked about the fine people on both sides of the charlottesville divide. you have a president whose repeatedly stoked racial and ethnic fears by the demagoguery of immigrants, and you a republican party that because he's in charge is silent on those points, and that's what's unacceptable. >> i mean, he called mexicans crossing or any latin american immigrants crossing the border criminals and rapists. he said the wife of a gold star father couldn't speak because she wasn't allowed to. they're muslim. i mean, he has said all these things. you're right. and does -- does that mean that someone like mitch mcconnell coming out and condemning king just kind of feels like, okay, what's going to happen? >> it's a worthy statement of values from senator mcconnell, and people always complain republicans don't condemn. condemn, here he did. it strikes me is choosing this

woman to attack king at a moment when king appears politically weak and on the defensive. king endorsed a candidate for mayor in canada who was a neo-nazi, so he has been around this before. this is not the worst thing he has said, the most controversial thing he has done, yet only now when he is in trouble does the condemnation come. that's the problem. >> so much more to say, but no more time to say it, at least for today. bret, zerlina and nick, thank you, guys. we will be right back.

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that is all for tonight. we will be back tomorrow with more "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, katie. nice to see you, as always. >> i was told that we weren't allowed to do this today. >> we have a very heavy show. so i was being nice to you, but i don't have time for the full banter. >> no awkward handoff. ari melber, take it away. you have a great show. everyone stick around and watch. >> thank you, katy tur, as always. and good being on your show earlier today. >> it was great to have you. >> let me tell you why i don't have time with katy. it is a simple reason. tonight's top story is as clear and stark as it is disturbing. the fbi is formally probing whether donald trump is a russian asset, and there are new reports about trump tampering with potential evidence and witnesses in that very probe. any news outlet reporting those kind of bombshells is putting its neck on the line. so it's notable that these reports are coming from