here. >> thanks. >> to all of our viewers out there, sign up to the news letter by going to signup.axios.com. i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside louis burgdorf. "morning joe star" start right . good morning, we have jonathan lem ear, washington anchor for bbc, world news mrk katty kay and in washington, eugene scott. good to have you all on board. >> it is great to have everybody on board. mi mika, you, willie and i, we've been tough on rudy giuliani. >> well, willie special. >> it's kind of like his war against rosie.

>> these thanking you right now. >> a smile for that one. anyway, but rudy, we attack rudy way too much. but one thing, willie, you got to admit the guy is consistent, right? no collusion, no collusion, no collusion. >> he stays on it. >> the guy -- like what's this? what's this, willie? no collusion. that's his middle name they're going to put on his tombstone. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> okay. willie, his eyes bulged after he said that. my eyes just bulged as well. >> that was one had you to go back and listen to again. i saw it first on twitter and then i had to go see it with my own eyes. rudy giuliani, we're supposed to believe speaks for the president of the united states, he's his personal attorney, he goes on tv to speak for the president he said the president says there was never any collusion. he said he never said that.

that's the president's entire argument, no collusion, witch hunt, hoax. there are times again and again and again where the president hasn't just said no collusion, he said no collusion or from anyone on the campaign, so he's not just talking about himself. rudy giuliani, i don't know where he was before the hit last night but a little bit too much truth perhaps came out. >> well, willie also, you have mike pence who said mike, quote, we have defeated isis pence said we never even talked to anybody from russia, we just talk to americans about the campaign. well, you know, listen, let's just do this. let's just get the pain over with. here's rudy giuliani in full. >> the amount of false reporting about this case is despicable. >> mr. mayor, false reporting is saying that nobody in the campaign had any contacts with russia.

false reporting is saying there has been no suggestion of any kind of collusion between the campaigns and russians. now you have -- >> you are just misstated my position. i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or people between the campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i have not. there is not asong single bit o evidence that said -- >> first of all, it's not the bar of accountability for a president. it's about what you knew dp-- >> he didn't collude with russia either. >> you he said nobody had any contact, tons of people had contact. nobody kcolluded, the guy workig his campaign -- >> he said he didn't. he didn't say nobody. >> how would you know nobody in your campaign. >> he actually did say that. >> if he said that, he said it

in a -- as far as he knows, that's true. >> was this interview late at night? >> let's get at it, baby. >> after hours. >> donald trump said in the transition that rudy had lost a step or two, people around rudy had said during the transition when he wanted to be secretary of state that he had lost a step or two. this looks like he's been cheating on his wind sprints for months. this looks like he's lost about 15 steps. i don't know why they keep putting him on tv. rudy giuliani just told america and the world that donald trump's campaign colluded with russia full stop, willie. >> i don't think this is the great argument he believes it is. i think he's trying to make a distinction between the president himself and his cam pan. -- campaign. i think in bob mum eller's eyes

there is no distinction there. rudy giuliani late at night we don't know what he's going to say. we've also seen in the past him introducing arguments in moments like this. he talks to donald trump a lot. maybe this is coming from somewhere else and not just from rudy giuliani sitting on tv. >> i'm sure he talks to donald trump a lot. i don't know whether donald trump is listening to rudy giuliani. >> in other words, maybe they're pushing this line to rudy giuliani to put out. >> i don't know how long that segment was on cnn with rudy giuliani last night, but if it were, te extended, if he were h for a half hour to 45 minutes, i can almost guarantee you we could go in 45 minutes with a set of handcuffs right to the white house for his client.

>> rudy giuliani's wide-eyed look in the interview is as if he's expressing surprise about what rudy giuliani just said. it does seem like perhaps he is going off script and saying something he didn't believe. i'm sure we'll play video clip after video clip of him in the past suggesting there was no collusion with the cam pawn and with russia. there have been moments when rudy giuliani comes out on tv and and says something that seems completely off script, that seems nutty. remember his first interview with sean hannity, trying to get ahead of the idea with that the payoff with stormy daniels was a campaign donation. it is possible of rudy giuliani trying to get out ahead of some

other bad news story they think is dropping, regarding manafort or someone else, perhaps having some kind of communication with the russians that he shouldn't. >> this is breaking news from the wall street journal. michael cohen hired an i.t. firm to rig early cnbc and drudge polls in favor of donald trump. i'm sure we'll hear more about that over the next couple hours. but catty kkathy -- katty kay, giuliani is talking about the mullins report will be devastating, some suggesting that donald trump may have to resign. this is not exactly michael and the godfather. he is -- he seems to have absolutely no discipline at this point. of course that's damaging donald

trump every time he goes out and talks. >> let's just put it out there again. it was a late night television interview so we don't know what happened beforehand. every time giuliani goes on television, you wonder if the mueller investigation doesn't get extended by a few weeks because they have to go back. if you are doing your job correctly as bob mueller, you have to listen to that, go over that and wonder what is behind it. possibly what's behind it is paul manafort being thrown under a bus, and giuliani saying we have to sacrifice paul manafort. let's shift the line from the campaign in general to basically paul manafort, who may have been operating as a rogue operator and the rest of the campaign and the president himself and of course there was no collusion with donald trump. maybe that is the argument.

maybe jonathan's right and there's some other piece of evidence they're trying to protect. if there was a strategy point that came out of that and i'm not con advised there w-- convi there was one at 9:00 at night on television. >> to point out there are other people on television at the same time as rudy giuliani. they were completely coherent. so i don't know why -- like we're half joking but we're half serious. >> maybe he had a heavy meal and was kind of -- >> no, we're talking whether or not he was -- >> it slows him downs are slurs yours words. >> no. >> i know if i have, mika, a big meal late at night before going on, my words slur and my eyes bulge. >> things you cannot believe ever. this is unprecedented.

>> did you see what speaker pelosi did yesterday? >> yes. we're still in a government shutdown. it's an historic length and time now. people are really hurting. there's nond in sight. so speaker of the house nancy pelosi called on the president to reschedule his state of the union address for security concerns. pelosi made her request yesterday. she suggested the president could deliver the speech in writing. she said the shutdown has put strains on the secret service and the department of homeland securi security. homeland security secretary kirstjen nielsen tweeted that her department are fully prepared to secure them for the state of the union.

a furloughed dhs employee expressed serious concerns that the department has insufficient staffing levels to sufficiently manage the security needs. pelosi was asked further about the motivation behind her request yesterday by msnbc's garrett haake. >> do you hope he sees this as a consequence of the government shutdown? >> no, this is a housekeeping matter in the congress of the united states so that we can honor the responsibility of the invitation we extended to the president. he can make it from the oval office if he wants. >> you know, eugene scott, i was wondering if this shutdown continues and the president maybe even uses that platform as a way to sort of try and brand the shutdown his way, if that's even possible at this point, tack advantage of the situation, but let's talk about the facts. nancy pelosi does have the right to not allow the president to

deliver the state of the union in the halls of congress, correct? >> she does. and it's a formality the invitation is extended and this is part of the procedure in a goes into hearing the state of the union address. it's not as if the state of the union address has never been postponed. we know in 1986 after the challenger incident ronald reagan delayed his state of the union address. but the reality is i think pelosi is responding not on to her base but large percentages of the american public who as far as they're concerned the state of the union is in disarray because of the shutdown and would prefer to see the lawmakers and president get together to get a solution to this issue as opposed to listen to the president give a speech that will send fact checkers into a frenzy to convince americans that what he's doing is in their best interest.

>> donald trump facing somebody for the first time in his life that he can't run offer. we'll have noticed that nancy pelosi has not dwand a nickname from trump when he's tweeting every day. >> just on that wall street journal breaking news about cohen, here's one i thought you might enjoy. during the presidential race, mr. cohen also asked mr. geiger to create a twitter account called @women for cohen. it described mr. cohen as, quote, a sex symbol, praised his looks and character and promoted his appearances and statements, boosting mr. trump's candidacy. of course, reminds us of when we started "morning joe" in 2009, mike barnicle tried us to do @one sexy grandpa.

>> what was worrisome about that is twitter hadn't been invented yet. >> so -- >> either that or @women heart breaking. we'll get to that in a minute. >> wow. >> what does donald trump think about this? because he will have alternatives if this is post pond or they don't do it at all, if he does submit it in writing, he'll have a rally somewhere. he'll use that time in some way. how do you think he reacts to this? does this put any pressure on him. >> i haven't seen it, to budge a little bit in this shut down. >> i was speaking po an ally last night was ale will and it

deprives him of what he loves best. the idea the stage and audience. there are alternatives but there's something unique about it. he thought his oval office address came off as flight and lifeless. he really want this moment in front of congress been and there was the plan from the white house if the shutdown was still going on to use that address, to use the state of the union to make the case again for that wall as to why the president is right. we know steven miller has already been drafting the speech and that was going to be a big portion of it, to use that moment to rally the person people to his cause. we saw republicans suggest yesterday this was nonsense, and maybe it is a political stunt

but it's a good one. i think there's a sense for the president here, they need to figure out what to do next. >> welcome to the major leagues. >> nice play. >> mike, yesterday one of the real bush league movers over the past couple days went oupd and flounced isis had been defeated. tack a quick look. >> thanks to the leadership of this commander in chief and courage and sacrifice of our armed forces, woor able to begin to hand off the fight of isis in earia to. the caliphate has crumbled and isis has been defeated. >> what makes in a even more bush league that was after the attack. the attack where four americans

were killed, twice as mmm and there are more than a few republicans suggesting that it was donald trump's retreat from the region and him handing it over to vladimir putin and erdogan and the mullahs in iran and assad that actually encouraged isis to attack yesterday. >> joe, this is another result of foreign policy by impulse, which is what donald trump's statement really was. it was an impulsive statement, we're going to withdraw all of our soldiers and troops from syria within 30 days. that's what he originally said. now vice president pence yesterday speaking about isis as it has been defeated. it has not been defeated. isis is an ideology that is rooted in the ground in certain regions of this world and syria happens to be a hotbed of isis.

it's driving to a certain extent. it is not going away. it is not -- it has been diminished, there's no doubt about that but it is not defeated. >> and yet, katty kay, the president is standing firm. he got support from rand paul and saying thank you for getting out of these never ending wars. jonathan can speak to the idea that the president is reconsidering the idea of getting ot ut of syria. >> the president came in saying he didn't understand why the president was ifighting around the world. it plays in the narrative that america is being taken advantage of other countries. we had not just the attack in syria, we had the attack the day before in kenya. this is a dangerous ideology that is clearly right there. and whilst in the white house --

some white house aides had suggested this, if we hadn't been there in the first place, those four americans wouldn't have gotten killed. and i'm sure general mattis told them this, it's a very different idea to going in to once you're there and pulling out. and once you're there and you're putting yourself and your allies at risk and yesterday's attack if this is isis feeling emboldened, this is exactly the kind of thing that comes apart from something that mike calls foreign policy by impulse. >> it's not the first time that isis is going to fill a power void that was created by the united states and a speedy retreat. it's happening again, mika. and when you actually have the vice president, who good luck running in any republican primary in the future ever again for the rest of his life. maybe he and rand paul can go out and golf in kentucky in

their old age because that's about as close as he's going to get to an office again. but you go out and you say that isis is dead, isis is finished, isis is wiped out. all you're doing is encouraging, meek mika, the type of attacks yesterday that killed four americans. >> this isn't high-level thinking, it's prisetty basic a this is staggering. >> you mean mike pence making that -- >> sweepeech, yes. coming up, we'll hear stories of americans across the country who have personally been impacted by the ongoing government shutdown. first we'll check in with bill karins for a look at the winter storm affecting much of the country. bill? >> this is going to be the biggest storm, biggest impact storm we've seen not just for

california but for new england by the time we get to the weekend. torrential rains in california. we have blizzard conditions in the mountains with 90 mile-per-hour wind. there are flash flood watches in and around los angeles, the blizzard warnings high surf. here's the know forecast. three to six inches over areas of the midwest, ohio valley, much of north of interstate 70. when you talk about high impact snows, syracuse, scranton, albany. when we get on i-95, we're going to get front end snow in the beginning. then we're going to go over to an ice storm. there is great concern we could get significant snow, maybe 3 to

6 inches and and then a quarter to a and we'll see significant out ages here in southern new england. that's a possibility. a lot of patriots fans would be upset about having no power and missing the game. we give you the updates as we go throughout the rest of the week here on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ well, the change was made and the big man joined the band ♪ t♪ that's why i switched to liberty mutual. they customized my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. and as a man... uh... or a woman... with very specific needs that i can't tell you about- say cheese. mr. landry? oh no. hi mr. landry! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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>> the faa says 2,200 inspectors will be back on the job by later this week. >> my daughter means everything to me. my daughter is my heart, she's my world, she's the reason i push every single day. >> in the meantime, she uses snap benefits or food stamps each month from the government. the department of agriculture is going to give out food stamps for february but funding for march and beyond is uncertain. >> i'm very concerned. if it does dry up, i don't know how i'm going to get food. >> there's days i cannot make it in because i have to go pull weeds for a family member so i can make money to go get treatment for my son. it's affecting my son, affecting

whether he gets to go to his therapies or not. >> mika, that's from king tv in seattle. we're going to be playing some of those reports throughout the morning. i'm pretty staggered by some of the people i am seeing on twitter, some people that have seemed to be reasonable and rational in the past who are actually making fun of furloughed government employees, acting as if this is a vacation, or acting as if people are being too dramatic. there you had a corrections officer that couldn't go into work because he had to go pull weeds for family members so he could make $20 or $30 to hope to be able to pay for his son's medication. that story is being multiplied not on 800,000 times over but you look at the contractors and the other people that make money in the service community and while the furloughed workers will, we hope, get repaid at

some point, you've got a million or so americans that will never get money back for what they're losing during the shutdown. think about it, you've got tsa agents that are not going to be able to afford to show up. you've got correctional officers that can't go in, you've got coast guard -- members of the coast guard that aren't getting paid, that are now having to worry about how do they pay for their rent, how do they pay for medicine for their children, how do they pay for doctor visits, how do they pay for schooling. and air traffic controllers. we can go down the list. the real word consequences are devastating all over a shut down that's based on a phony premise, on a phony wall that not one in four republicans wanted to fund when they were in power. >> and the data shows most of

the american people don't want it either, but it is important to hear directly from the american people who are impacted by the shutdown that president trump said point blank he would be proud to own. about those people you just heard from, president trump says he understands how they feel, he can relate and he says they will adjust. i'm not sure what that last comment means. i don't know how they adjust with no money. >> nancy pelosi said, mika, he must be confused, their daddy can't give them money like donald trump's father gave him $200 million. >> the crisis for these people is very real, unlike the crisis on the border. more now on the dramatics between nancy pelosi and the president. the president is privately

asking why he can't get a deal. the "new york times" reports that trump told top aides he believes over time the country will not remember the shutdown but it will remember he staged a fight over his insists and that the southern border be protected. but privately the president is worried, quote, we are getting crushed. he told his acting chief of staff, mick mulvaney, after watching recent coverage of the shutdown according to one person famili familiar, why can't we get a deal?" when it comes to plozy, it is differe different, he considers her more rrnl than most democrats. privately trump has complained about the quotes he reads from pelosi about him in newspapers

but has sad that he is impressed by her political savvy. one other thing, joe, the date k -- data shows the lack of support for the wall. as time goes by and reporting on the wall continues, you watch the president getting schooled himself by people who work at the border about tunnels that can be built under the wall, like the wall does not mean border security even on a physical level. think people understand that. >> well, they do understand that. again, even republicans have understood that for the first two years of donald trump's presidency. that's why less than one in four republicans supported the idea of donald trump's wall and wouldn't even support a bill that would give him $1.6 billion to start the wall. john cornyn said walls aren't really a good deterrent because people can go over them, go

through them or climb under them. lindsey graham said the same thing, it's just not a smart investment. and eugene scott, you have a president who thinks he can bully and bluster democrats. this is a man, again, who seems won'tfully equipped doesn't understand the concepts of checks and balances and separations of power. >> absolutely. part of the reason he doesn't understand this is because his fellow party members haven't required him to understand it. we've heard them back his ideas. we're seeing some type of erosion from the gop saying this is not the fight that they're willing to die on. that's in part because they know they ne longer supported the

american people. that was before would come with government shutdown that would, he's going to have to realize he's going to the tabl desiring something that many people in this country have believed for a long time is not the best war, if there's a crisis, what about the first two years of the presidency when the republicans owned congress and the white house and they could have pushed something they, that he's not getting a deal when he's refusing to move off his position? surely he knows that and when you say there's so much available for the wall or bust, that's not deal making and

that's not negotiating. and are's lds disrupt. >> the relationship between the president and speaker pelosi is the most interesting and most important one in washington right now. it predates the shutdown fight, this idea that the president respects her and has always had this idea that she is someone who tuned the understood used here as a rallying point to keep republicans in school and this is someone he feels hike can possib possible. there is no incentive for nancy pelosi to give him an extra driem on this wall. think there and you would think to make deal, the white house would have to make am dock poos

the issue is it's not so muchin he feels like -- your point is sacks lit right. f and now he can project forward and still make it an issue in if prn and his base is staying with him. he uses that a flrjs so that is something at least for now the sense is he's not willing to budge just yet. >> all right. the ceo of the national urban league mark mora dwrrnls and he'll talk to us about why he's voicing opposition. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ fidelity is redefining value for investors.

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♪ so maybe i'll win hey, batter, batter, [ crowd cheers ] like everyone, i lead a busy life. but i know the importance of having time to do what you love. at comcast we know our customers' time is valuable. that's why we have 2-hour appointment windows, including nights and weekends. so you can do more of what you love. my name is tito, and i'm a tech-house manager at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. this nation needs an attorney general who will dramatically change course and enforce civil rights laws with vigor and independence. based on his alarming record, we are convinced that william barr

will not do so. >> that was president and ceo of the national urban league, mark moriel testifying yesterday at william barr's nomination hearing. thanks for being with us. >> good morning. >> so many people are focused on the mueller report. you are focused on something that will far outlast the mueller report and whether william barr will outlast the mueller report. >> he's also the chief rights enforcer. that has been one of the most important roles of the attorney general. what we need is for nominee barr to step away from the policies of general sessions. jeff sessions was a disaster when it came to civil rights

enforcement. he reversed the justice department's decision in two major civil rights cases where in effect the justice department flipped sides from being against suppression to tacitly supporting suppression and what we need is for barr disassociate the justice department from those failed policies. so nothing in the hearing, nothing in his testimony gave me confidence or gave us confidence that he, in fact, would do that. secondly, his record is we just passed the first step act, an important bipartisan criminal justice reform bill that's going to give relief to lots of people but also which moves the nation towards a saner approach to criminal justice policies. he was a hardline lock 'em up, throw away the key person back in the 1990s. we want assurances that he's going to enforce the first step

act and he can give us those assurances by cancelling general sessio sessions' guidance which told u.s. attorneys throw the book at every defendant, charge them with the maximum crime, seek the maximum penalties in all instances. so we thought it was important for the record that while this discussion about executive power and the mueller report was taking place that we focus on an important role, that of civil rights enforcement. >> you're right. when he was previously attorney general, william barr issued a report, the case for more incarceration was the title of the report. he has indicated, though, for that first step act that the president of the united states signed which would reduce mandatory sentencing. a lot of people view that has a step forward in criminal justice. does that matteren you ehearte? >> i'd like to see him say he's

going to rescind the guidances, the policies that general sessions took the department back some 20 years, departed from where general holder and general lynch and the obama administration had taken the department, and that is to be more reasonable in their charging decisions, to be more, if you will, modulated in what they sought in sentencing and i think there are steps he should take publicly and i hope he would do that before his confirmation. >> is there anything he could say that would win you over or have you decided -- >> we think it's important for the record that we oppose him. let's be honest. he is likely to be confirmed. we are going to want to work with him but we want him to understand how crucial civil rights enforcement is and how the sessions policies were inconsistent with policies of previous democratic and republican administrations. >> so he is going to be the next attorney general of the united states. what do you want him to do about

voting rights and suppression? >> right now the power is in the hands of the justice department to bring what are called section two cases, bring cases against states -- >> like north carolina. >> like north carolina. like texas, states like ohio who have pursued suppression, if you will, policies. we think that the justice department has a responsibility to do that. we no longer have the preclearance provisions of section 5 where they've got to get preapproval, so it's up to him. sessions didn't bring one section two case and in major section two cases that had been brought under general holder and general lynch, he had in fact reversed side within the first 30 days he was in office. so we've got to -- we need a different approach today and i hope he hears what we're saying. i hope he's certainly going to heed. >> can i ask you the effect of the shutdown of urban areas. i've come up from washington,

d.c., everybody down there is feeling it, the cab drivers and bartenders say there's no -- >> it's a vice grip. not on those 800,000 federal workers, but all of the vendors, contractors and community-based organizations that are funded by the government through the cities, through the counties and through the states are now unable to make payroll. it's having a secondary effect on businesses, on shopping centers, on grocery stores, on pharmacies. this is an unnecessary shutdown. it's not supported by the american people and what i hope they would do is just get an up-or-down vote, mitch mcconnell, let's have an up-or-down vote on reopening the government. put it on the floor, let the moments vote on it and i'm confident the government will reopen immediately. set the wall aside. >> all vital, important issues. let's get to the big one. you're going to be at the

superdome this sunday. do you want brady or mahomes? >> either. good luck on sunday. >> still ahead, we're digging into the wall street journal report about rigging polls ahead of the 2016 presidential c campaign. some wild stories and it's coming up next. coming up next

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what with about the right of the gentleman from islington north? no wake in this country ever

allowed that man to be our prime minister. when this house voted to take the action necessary, when vladimir putin executed an act of terrorism on our soil, there were many good labor members who stood up to support what we were doing, but not the right honorable gentleman. if the leader of your position wouldn't stand up against putin when he attacks people in this country, won't stand up against fascists when they're running riots in syria, if he will not stand up for the rights of this country when critical national security questions are being asked, how can we expect him to stand up for us in european negotiations? why is it that half of the leaders say he was not standing up to the abuse andvil vi vilification, how can he possibly protect this country? we cannot possibly have

confidence in him to lead. >> to say the lead, a very entertaining 20 minutes. katty kay, it was a no-confidence vote the prime minister won by the narrowest of margins. she lives to muddle through another day. >> she lives because of jeremy corb corbin, because the prospect of a labor government is something that all members of the conservative party can rally against. they don't want to hand power over to the opposition party. you heard michael going through the list of reasons why he says that jeremy corbin will be unacceptable as a prime minister because businesses have also said they're not happy with the prospect of a labor government. for the moment that keeps theresa may in power. but what does she do with this conundrum, which is brexit, which half her party desperately

wants to leave the european union, even if it means crashing out, which our defense minister said could be a threat to our national security, be in a weaker position for tackling terrorism and cyber crime, troops on the streets, long cues in shops because food supply chains gets disrupted. there's a section her party that wants that and a section that says, no, we have to have a deal with the european union. at the moment nobody knows and we are 71 days away. >> i don't understand, mike, why they don't just push for another vote, a revote and see if the british people are still there. >> nor do i. ka katty, is the root of this the fear of more immigration in -- >> it was a driving force that britain wanted to be able to

control its own borders and control sovereignty. the reason they don't go for a second referendum is there would be such an undermining of the democratic process. 17 million people in britain voted to leave the european union. if you now say to them we're not respecting your vote, we didn't like the result of that one, we're going to do it again, what then? do you do the best of three, the best of five to get the result you want? there is a risk, and the prime minister has outlaid this, of being seen to be democratic. the counterargument was when people voted back in june of 2016, they didn't really know how difficult it was going to be. maybe they have changed their minds now. what is striking about the brexit process, people who voted for brexit two and a half years ago, they still want brexit. they haven't changed on that. they feel very firmly that's what they want. >> still ahead, president trump has met with vladimir putin five times since taking off. five times. this week "the new york times'"

peter baker took a deep look at why each meeting has raised suspicious. also peggy noonan jones the table. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ and saying, "really?" so capital one is building something completely new. capital one cafes. inviting places with people here to help you, not sell you. and savings and checking accounts with no fees or minimums. because that's how it should be. you can open one from right here or anywhere in 5 minutes. seriously, 5 minutes... this is banking reimagined. what's in your wallet? hey, darryl. would you choose the network rated #1 in the nation by the experts, or the one awarded by the people? uh... correct! you don't have to choose, 'cause, uh... oh! (vo) switch to the network awarded by rootmetrics and j.d. power.

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i said the president of the united states, there is not a single bit of evidence the president of the united states committed the only crime you could commit here, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> welcome back to "morning joe." this is thursday, january 17th. with joe, willie and me, we have katty kay and political contributor for nbc news and msnbc peggy noonan. also chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" peter baker. so, joe, do you want to just hear the whole thing? it's stunning. >> as katty kay points out, it was late at night. it was like 9:00. so maybe had you a big dinner sitting in the stomach, maybe a little woozy. >> no, you know what we're talking about. a lot of people are talking about that, but this is the

president's attorney. this is someone speaking for the president of the united states. >> everybody know what is we're talking about. you eat steak, follow up with a baked potato, load it up. >> this attorney has been saying for months now no collusion, staying on message, trying to protect the president and insisting that the president had nothing to do with it. >> not only that. you can go through from the very beginning donald trump saying we had no contact with any russians during the campaign. mike pence saying in january of 2017, we never had any contact with any russians, we only spoke to the american people. can you go through one cabinet official after another cabinet official, one member of the administration after another administration official lying saying they had not had contact with russians some of them lying in front of congress. it's why jeff sessions had to recuse himself. and so then we've had this fight

for two years about collusion, there is no kcollusion, we didnt even meet with russians. then we find out about the meeti meeting. this huge ball of yarn continues to unwind. we all think we know where it's going to end up. a big step forward, rudy giuliani, the president's lawyer, admitting last night on cnn that, yes, members of the trump campaign committed collusion. >> the amount of false reporting about this case is despicable. it's despicable. >> false reporting is saying nobody in the campaign had contact with russian, saying there's been no collusion between the campaign and any russians. now you have poll data that -- >> you just misstated my position. i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i have not.

i said the president of the united states, there is not a single piece of evidence that the president conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> it's about what you knew and what was right and what was wrong and what did you deceive about. those are the major considerations. >> the president did not collude with the russians. >> you said he didn't have hi conta -- any contact. the guy working on the came was there at the same time as the convention. >> who would you know that nobody in your campaign -- >> he did say that, rudy. and then he said as far as i know. >> well, as far as he knows, that's true! >> okay. a couple of things. i'm going to go to peter baker. but i think that there are a lot veiled little jokes here about the possibility of rudy giuliani often being intoxicated when he's talking. i think the bigger concern, this is just analysis, is that he's

trying to normalize something that they can't actually pull away from far enough. so they go from no collusion to collusion, what's wrong with collusion. peter baker, you're covering the five times the president has met with vladimir putin and the issues of collusion or whether or not there was it. you're looking at why each of those meetings looks suspicious. what are you finding? >> this is exactly right. this is one of the reasons why this question continues to hover over the president. when he meets with vladimir putin, he does it in ways that others haven't. he does it with no aides, interpreters or takes the notes away from interpreters and says don't brief other members of our delegation. he sits down with him at a dinner where the only person present is a russian

interpreter, not even an american interpreter. he is an unconventional poll signatures politician. but it raises eyebrows and given that he knew there are questions about his campaign and his own relationship with putin and the russians, it seems unusually risky to do things that would give reason for people to raise questions further. >> you know, peggy, i just got to ask you your thoughts about waking up last week, reading news reports that the fbi was investigating the president of the united states about possibly being a russian asset, reading stories like peter baker's that talk about a commander in chief who refuses to have any american officials with him and only interpreters and then he tears up the notes, then he swears them to secrecy, has one bizarre

meeting with -- you look at helsinki -- after another, with putin. it's not like he didn't have a history after the campaign that didn't cause us all grave concerns. >> you know, when i first heard some indications that there were in some circumstances no note takers at the meetings between the president and mr. putin, it really disturbed me in many ways, one of which is you take careful notes of such conversations between the leaders of two big nations at what is always a fraught time. you do this for a number of reasons. one is everybody has to review exactly what was said and exactly where we are. everybody around you who works for you. another, just as serious one, is that history needs to know what was said. these notes exist for a long

time. eventually they become issued. it was only because of the careful notes of the conversations that we knew that the conversation between j.f.k. and krushiev at geneva really didn't go well and that it was a really dangerous moment between the u.s. and the then soviet union. so i take this stuff seriously and i think the big question that we've been talking about for some time is very simply what is the relationship between donald trump and vladimir putin? i hope we find out soon. i don't know what this is. as for rudy, i think he was kind of signaling that the mueller investigation is going to have some difficult moments for the administration. >> i think that's an important point, peter. because a lot of people are suggesting maybe that rudy giuliani again is freelancing, that he went on tv and he's sort

of speaking for himself off the top of his head, which may be the case with many of his answers. as jonathan lemeyire and i were talking about, a lot of times these are the first markers that rudy giuliani lays down. do you think last night when he said i never said there was no collusion with the campaign, is he laying out an argument because they suspect something is coming down the road perhaps out of the mueller investigation that implicates other people in the campaign? which, by the way, it already has, not specifically with collusion. >> that's exactly the point. l whether he intended to or it's just in his head and he's beginning to lay out a new rationale. when the president of the united states says no collusion, he's not saying i didn't collude. he said this a hoax. he not saying there might be collusion underneath me and i'd

like to get to the bottom of it. if he thought people working for him and thousand thght they had something wrong with the russians, the right thing would be to say let's get to the bottom of it. what rudy giuliani said last night is a definite significant change. >> what we're talking about with collusion, the lack of note taking in helsinki, all of it could be classified under the weight of this presidency and what it's doing to this country, it altering the way this country operates. the lack of notetaking is particularly relevant in the wake of the attack yesterday in syria where we lost two americans and several others wounded. we don't know their conditions. but there were no notes in any of these meetings. so the foreign policy by impulse

is articulated bit president of the united states. we're getting out of syria, all troops are being withdrawn within 30 days. we don't know if putin raised this as an issue with president trump in any of these meetings. we don't know so much about what's going on. those notes, as peggy alluded to, in fact, under a normal presidency, those notes would be shared with the national security council, those notes would be shared in langley, with the russia desk and the state department. but there are no notes and no common sense coherent foreign policy in this presidency. >> no notes and there's no common sense foreign policy in this presidency and it goes again to the relationship between donald trump and vladimir putin. we can go back and look at all the things that he did that just absolutely made no sense whatsoever. it made no accepts when he came on our show in december 2015 and said that vladimir putin was a

strong man who he respected and he was fine with vladimir putin assassinating journalists and reporters. it made no as soon as whsense wn helsinki, made no as soon as that he has constantly reported and believed the word of an ex-k.g.b. chief over the head of the fbi, the nsa director, the cia director. you can go down the list. he's chosen to believe vladimir putin and what he hears from the g.r.u. more than what he believes from his own military intelligence operations. it makes no sense and it goes back, willie, to what peter baker was saying and what peggy noonan was saying about the relationship between these two and how strange it is. it's important -- remember, these are the questions that

everybody's been asking for several years, what's that relationship? what lies behind it? what does vladimir putin have on donald trump? and i say everybody's been zh asking that question except the republican party, except mitch mcconnell, except, you know, lindsey graham, except all of these other people who may protest a syria policy change once in a while but never ask, wait a second, why did that happen? how did that happen? maybe this happened at helsinki. how about yesterday, willie, when republicans voted to allow sanctions to be lifted on one of vladimir putin's favorite oligarchs. why did the republican provide aid and comfort to vladimir putin and one of his favorite oligarchs yesterday? >> the republicans couldn't clear the 60 votes they needed. those sanctions on oleg

deripaska will now be lifted thanks to his friends in the united states senate. there's a reason "the new york times" opened an investigation into the president of the united states to see if he was in fact working for russia. i also want to just say because rudy giuliani throws out smoke bombs and things get a little confusing about what the president himself has in fact said. you could find this quote quite a bit over the last couple of years but the first one i found, may 2017 at a joint press conference with the colombia president santos, president trump said, quote, there is no collusion, certainly myself and my campaign. so if rudy giuliani, katty, wants to make the distinction between the president of the united states and his campaign, it's certainly not a distinction the president himself has made over the years. >> no. and mueller will have to weigh what julianneweulieweulia loui

president trump said. now there is this weight of evidence that manafort took this polling data and handed it to russian operatives and we don't know whether that was a strategy on behalf of that campaign or was that just paul manafort trying to protect his own interests to curry favor with some of these oligarchs. that and "the wall street journal" story that is just breaking, we'll talk about that, there's definite connections here about a level of chaos and confusion in the campaign and people on the trump campaign working for themselves, working for their own interests. >> if they are going to move the goalposts on this collusion this evening to the campaign, donald trump, donald trump jr. is standing right beneath those goalposts. >> here's the quote from rudy giuliani last night on cnn "i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or people in the campaign and russia." again, he's trying to make a distinction. joe? >> willie, mike talked about

moving the goalpost. it's so important for us to keep all of this in context and see how they've been moving the goalposts again for three years. i keep going back to donald trump saying that they never had any contact with anybody from russia. that was a lie that they were spitting out before he was sworn in. mike pence lied and said the same thing that, nobody in the campaign had any contact whatsoever with russia. and then of course there's a drip here and a drip there and you find out that the attorney general did, you find out that jared kushner did, you find out other members of the administration did, you find out they left them off their declaration forms, you find out they left them out of their senate testimony. you find out that they actually lied to the united states senate about it. and now we're seeing it happen with collusion. it goes from contact to collusion. we've heard no collusion. we've heard it thousands of

times from this president and his administration. and now last night the goalposts move again. you're right, this is very significant. >> normalizing it. >> again, trying to normalize abhorrent behavior and at a time, willie, when this president and the presidency is back on its heels like it's never been. >> that's right. here's "the wall street journal" report that katty touched on, former trump fixer and attorney michael cohen hired an i.t. firm to rig early drudge polls in favor of donald trump before the presidential cam ppaign in 2016. in early 2015 "a man who run as small technology company showed up at trump tower to collect $50,000 and then donald cohen tried to rig it in his favor before the campaign.

he tells the paper his activities related to trump consisted of trying unsuccessfully to manipulate two online polls in trump's favor". the journal report "in january 2014, he asked plm trmr. trump write a computer script to repeatedly vote to mr. trump. he was unable to get mr. trump into the top 100 on this list. in 2015, mr. cohen asked him to do the same for a drudge report poll of potential candidates. mr. trump ranged fifth with about 24,000 votes. he said gauger asked him to

create an account called women for cohen. he described cohen as a sex symbol, praised his look and character and boosted trump's candidacy. the trump organization declined to comment. cohen disputed handing over cash saying all monies paid to mr. gauger were by check. he offered no further comment on ties to the consultant. where to begin, joe. the lead of the piece has this guy receiving from michael cohen a walmart bag with $12,000 to $13,000 of cash. michael cohen said, no, i wrote the guy a check. he's not disputing this happened, just that payment was made. >> it's just a clown show. that's the thing, peter baker, when people try to ascribe too

much planning and too much scheming to this trump team, this trump organization, the campaign was, as you know, a -- i always say a mom-and-pop operation without a mom. it was just trump sitting in his corner office barking out order and knowing absolutely everything that was going on and the guy just -- his campaign was lightning in a bottle. and there were these people that had absolutely no idea how to run a presidential campaign and thought the same sleazy techniques that worked in new york -- in a new york tabloid culture would work in a presidential campaign and that they'd get away with it. it may have worked in the presidential campaign but nobody's getting out of this. >> ironically, this has now become one of their defenses. we couldn't possibly have been

so sophisticated to have a collusion with russia because we were so amateurish. as you described it, it doesn't sound like a sophisticated operation that was capable of working with the russians and keeping a secret. so the very fact that that's their defense says a lot about w they're at right now. >> peggy, i don't know about you but the cohen story in the journal that just popped up, it rekindles this lingering fear i have that no matter what happens to the trump presidency and all the characters around it, rudy giuliani, michael cohen, that it is never, ever, ever going to go away. >> do you mean the story continues or our political culture is forever changed? >> the cast of characters, the thread of stories, what's happened to the country as a result of the presidency. >> every time i see, forgive me,

a michael cohen story, the term "team of screwballs" goes through my head. as he entered the white house, chris christie in a book that comes out calls them second raters, nuts and grifters. all that being said, i think perhaps some of the background that we saw from mr. giuliani last night is the fact that this now voluble, now eager-to-talk michael cohen is going to testify before a congressional committee, which is to say before the united states and i think katty's february 7th i think is the date. so that's going to be colorful,

bombastic, possibly scary. he will say a number of things that will be something. i've actually wondered if the president would not end the shutdown on that morning. do you know what i mean? on the morning of february 7th, just to get a little of the attention away from cohen. you never know if cohen is being completely frank, candid and remembering things correctly, i guess we'll be debating that but that will be something on february 7th. >> you can still follow it at women for cohen, women who love and support michael cohen's no nonsense, business oriented and ready to make a business. it has 444 followers. mika, sign up. we can do 445 and 446. >> i'm going to look at who those followers -- >> i actually think mika is already following it. >> no, i'm not. >> chris christie also talks

about the felons that are working for donald trump , both convicted and unconvicted. >> peter baker, very you very much. >> still ahead on "morning joe," it's day 27 of the government shutdown and the white house has made no progress with lawmakers to end the stalemate. all the while, millions of americans are being affected, impacted negatively. we'll talk to former republican congressman carlos cabello about what could be done to open the government. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. wel 'lbe rid she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪ i have... ♪

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i am a techie dad.n. i believe the best technology should feel effortless. like magic. at comcast, it's my job to develop, apps and tools that simplify your experience. my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. over a million people a day are flying, every day. and nobody's checking that the system is functioning properly. >> faa inspector john welsh says he and his colleagues haven't had a paycheck in weeks. >> we're asking the government to put us back to work and start

paying us again. it's putting a lot of stress on our money. >> this man has found a good job, installing cable as a contractor. >> in order to be an independent contractor, you need an ein number. >> it is not available at this time. >> here i am looking for temporary work. >> with a masters degree and a bachelor from the naval academy from annapolis, maryland, he's overqualified to work here in a flooring warehouse. >> i'm willing to do whatever it is that i can just to make end meet, and i refuse to become a

complete victim of this furlough. >> reporter: ken nieves was furloughed from housing and urban development. >> i don't want to get so far behind that we're just bleeding our savings and that's where we're at right now. >> more local news reports on the impact of the government shutdown on people across the country. joining us now, former republican congressman carlos kur bell lcurbel curbelo. he is joining msnbc news. >> thank you, mika. >> we're going to talk about the shutdown in a moment but something i've been wondering since the election. we followed your race especially closely. i was wondering, is there still room from everybody that you've seen in your personal experiences in donald trump's republican party for a

conservative, jeb bush-style republican? who is a traditional conservative, traditional republican? is there still room for that person in trump's gop? >> joe, that's a good question. the truth is i don't know the answer for that. my priority is to make sure there is room or to make that room. i do believe that this country deserves a small gaovernment, free enterprise republican party. and every day we're further away from that. and there were central republicans that do believe in free enterprise that, don't want to build a party based on culture wars and some kind of racial identity. i don't know if there's a future. i certainly hope there is. this country does need and deserve two strong parties. we only have two so both have to be able to compete to win a

majority of the american people. right now i see my party in that sense is moving in the wrong direction. >> we just showed a clip, a news clip, of the effects of donald trump's government shutdown. you were there over the past several years when republicans were in control of both houses when "the wall street journal" took a poll of every republican in the house in the senate and less than one in four supported donald trump's wall. why the government shutdown now if republicans didn't want the wall the two years they were in power? >> so here's what i'll say, joe. there is certainly a lot of skepticism about this wall concept on the republican side. of course most of these members doesn't speak up, they only speak to each other privately. but having said that, i do think the best thing for all of us to do, all of us that want to see an end to this and these stories are so important. while maybe the average american goes on with life as normal

while the government is shut down, certainly for these federal workers who serve the american people, this is very painful and very difficult. so these stories are important. but i think the way out is a grand bargain on immigration. this is the issue that's dividing this country, this is an issue that i think hurts our political discourse beyond immigration itself, it generates a lot of resentment in society, a lot of scapegoating. so i think the way out here is a grand bargain. and that means that republicans have to do what we kind of forced a lot of house republicans to do last year through our discharge petition process on immigration. we got a majority, a majority on the record in support of the path to citizenship for 2 million dreamers in our country. republicans, especially in the senate, have to be prepared to vote for that. sure, i think there has to be some give from democrats on bored are security, not for this wall from sea to sea because that's never going to happen and would be a massive waste of money but certainly to reassure

those americans that do want to see more border security. >> you touched on something congressman, a minute ago that i want to follow up on because it something we've heard, too, and that's republicans grumbling privately about the president or rolling their eyes about the president in private but in public going out and supporting him again and again, voting with him again and again. now that you're out of congress, what can you tell us about that dynamic? help us understand why republicans are afraid, many of them, to cross this president. >> so the greatest fear for a lot of house republicans and i think this dynamic we see growing in the democratic party as well, is a primary challenge. no one wants to be primaried. no one wants to be attacked from their own side. so that's why a lot of republicans are reticent to speak out because they believe that speaking out against the president or questioning the president means inviting a primary challenge. and this is kind of the problem with our politics, i think, it

has become a career for many members of congress and when you're serving that's one thing. sure, you'd like to continue serving, i certainly wanted to, but when you treat it at just another job or at a career, i think you're less willing to take risk to do the things that the nation needs for you to do. so that's why we get that dynamic where we have a lot of republicans quietly, even republican leaders who lament some of the things the president says and does but are unwilling to say so publicly. >> peggy, it's such an interesting dynamic. mark sanford came on our show two mornings after he lost his primary in south carolina and we said what's your advice? he said don't speak out against donald trump. he said i wouldn't have changed it, i said what i believe but it cost me my job. >> i think maybe jeff flake and others would have a sense of this. let me ask, first of all, when

you say the obvious play here, obvious, is trading enhanced, better border security for a k daca deal. it seems all of our complaints about leadership, et cetera, are just. part of the problem is that the bases of both parties are fairly polarized. am i wrong? i think donald trump's immigration position at this point is actually sort of moderate. it's like give me 200 miles of border wall, but he doesn't say that when he talks to his base. he says wall, wall, wall and they go wall, wall, wall. on the democratic side nancy pelosi says i'll give you $1 for your wall. and the democrats go yea, yea,

yea. so raaren't the people on the ground in america pretty polarized? >> correct. i'll tell you my personal experience, we filed a bill that was voted on the floor of the house, we forced republican leadership to debate to consider broad immigration reform and that bill included not $5 billion, $25 billion to border security, path to citizenship for 2 million dreamers and not a single democrat voted for it. i made some democratic friends while i was in the house. some of them came up to me and said you know what, this is a pretty good deal but politically we can't support it. that's the problem that in our country both parties to differing degrees are catering to their bases, and that broad majority, i believe silent majority in the middle is being

left out and the country is losing and the institutions are being diminished. this is a time of crisis in our country. i hope that the colleagues that i left behind in the house don't take mark seasonfotanford's adv. i hope in every they do they put the country first when it comes to election day. >> both sides being lost, many people think why you lost your race was because of your stance on climate change. with the moderate republicans partially swept away in that blue wave, climate change, how do you move the ball on that at all, particularly with a white house that seems to want to hear none of it? >> first of all, those that are saying that i lost because i this a position on climate change, which basically is that it is a real issue and the government has a role in solving

it, i think carbon pricing is a real solution. the idea i lost because of held that view is ridiculous because that was not even discussed. and i outperformed my opponent for governor and for senate. yes, it's going to be harder to get a consensus on climate change. however, i will tell you that looking back just three, four years there's been great growth on the republican side of the aisle on this issue. we had over 40 republicans sign on to the bipartisan climate solutions caucus. it basically means they recognize the issue, acknowledge there's a role for government. that's a long way from where we were a few years ago where no republicans were even willing to acknowledge the term climate change. i think we're moving in the

right direction, even though there's a small setback here. as this issue becomes real, like in florida, we get tidal flooding, sea level rise, as this becomes a local issue in different parts of the country, we're going to see more and more come to the table. i think this we get involved in cultural infrastructure that, will help as well. >> the congressman has joined a board of conservatives that is actually seeking solutions for climate change. i've known mark sanford for so long. willie is right, he came on and said that and told us he wouldn't change a thing. also, mika, mark sanford, the reason why he said he did what

he did is after the campaign he wanted to be able to look his boys in the eyes and tell them he thought he did what was right in washington. you know what? he was able to do that and i've spoken to him a good bit since and he's still glad that he made that decision, he wouldn't change a thing. >> well, former congressman carlos curbelo, now an nbc news contributor. thank you so much. >> coming up, we'll talk to the co-chairs of the problem solvers caucus who met with the president yesterday to discuss the shutdown. "morning joe" is many ccoming r back. any ccoming right back after months of wearing only a tiger costume,

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joining us now, co-chairs of the problem solvers caucus, democratic congressman josh gottheimer of new jersey and republican congressman tom reed of new york. they are among the bipartisan group of lawmakers who met with president trump at the white house yesterday. it's really good to have you on board, josh. i'll start with you. >> thanks for having us. >> how was the president? was he open to solving problems? and what exactly -- what exactly

did he think the problem was? >> well, first, i think it was a very productive conversation and construct constructive. we all listened to one another, laid out what our concerns are. i stressed and my colleagues stressed we got to reopen the government. and we also talked about borders and education. we stressed we've got to talk to each other. if we refuse, we'll never open the government. >> was he open to doing something other than $5.7 billion for his wall? >> i think all the end casindic have been there for us to talk and work out these differences, mika. this is how childish this town has become. they won't even talk to each other any longer. i applaud my democratic

colleagues for stepping forward and saying we have to talk to work this out. that is the step we took yesterday and it was constructive and positive on both ends. >> just to back up a little bit about how childish washington is, not talking, wasn't the president presented with a bipartisan solution to end the shotdo shutdown? can we givenagree he's been giv options? >> it's not just about the shutdown. it's about the border, bored de security. we have a potential to help dreamers and daca, if you want to go down that path. it's time to -- >> hold on, hold on. people are really hurting from the shutdown. it at historic lengths. i think it is about reopening the government, number one. and, number two, when people aren't talking, i believe democrats went to the white

house and the president said bye-bye and walked away. did you all talk to the president about being a part of the conversation? >> we actually talked about the american workers that you referenced and we care about them and want to get this addressed. but fellow americans are dying as a result of the broken border issues we have. it time to set this aside. we have been talking and we will talk. now the rest of our leadership needs to step forward and get this done. >> you make an important point. what you also heard is to get to have that conversation that tom is talking about where we get into the other issues, we've got to reopen the government. people's safety is at risk, the skies, our food, the economy is taking a hit, we've heard that from the economy and others outside, how it will slow growth in our ski. but i think what came out of it also is there is a real desire for to us find a way forward

here. both side are going to have to be willing to give a little bit. i think that's a very important part of this. you have to give a little to move forward. hopefully we can do that and start that process. >> i would like both of you to take a swing at this question, problem solvers. how do you deal with the problem of fear? you met yesterday with a man, donald trump, who was so afraid of his position on the board that he changed it immediately when he got a tweet from a talk show host. and you're going to work in a capitol, in a building prks whe -- where a handful of people inject fear in the majority inject fear because of the loss of their base. it seems to be an epidemic but we've yet to find out what to do about fear. what do you do fear?

>> my humble opinion is you step forward like we did. that's why i give credit to my fellow colleagues and that's why the adults should be coming into the room to get this done for everyone's sake. >> there are a growing number of democrats and republicans who realize what you're saying, that we can't allow the extremes and obstructionism to guide the day. that's what we're all talking about. how do we break this log jam. it's hurting the country and there's real issues we have to deal with and deal with now. this just can't go on. but there are a number of people, the of vast majority of people i talked to who want to find a way forward and out of this. >> congressman josh gottheimer and tom reed, thank you both for what you're doing. still ahead, president trump's personal attorney, rudy

giuliani, leaves open the possibility of collusion between the campaign and russia but then also claims it didn't happen. we'll show you that ahead on "morning joe." hear those words...

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my name is mike, i'm in product development at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. grand of new york anounded noun yesterday she will run for president. her announcement came less than 12 weeks after she told new yorkers in the final days of her landslide re-election that she will serve her full 6-year term. >> many including your opponent say you're saving that money to gear up for a presidential run in 2020. can you tell new yorkers that you will serve out your six-year senate turn. >> i will. >> you're saying you will not get out of the race and will not

run for president. >> i will serve my 6-year term. >> that's october 26th. she is running for president. if she wins she won't serve out our term. elizabeth warren is in t. we expect harris in the not too distant future. there's a prospect of bernie sanders, beto is out there. it's going to be a big field. someone who has worked on winning presidential campaigns, what's your sense of the kind of candidate who will do well against donald trump here? >> oh, that's a great question. i guess that answer will evolve over the next year. i am struck by how many of the candidates who have already come forward and made it obviously that they are going to run, how many of them feel they have to humanize themselves. i -- i would think when you first come forward for the presidency, i mean, i saw

christian gillibrand announce when colbert. she kind of flirted with him and took his hand and they giggled together and i said wow, this is not the announcement of a sitcom, this is the announcement for the presidency. shouldn't we be serious? donald trump is not a serious man when it comes to issues. i would think if you're running against him you would underline your seriousness and capability and accomplishments and leave the charm and the likeability and the relateability for later. >> and this field is only going to grow. the bigger the field i think we've learned the more likely some unprobable candidate may come up. we have no idea as we sit here where this is headed. >> i think that's true and this point early on is where somebody

said the other day, this is where the grifters, weirdos and people desperate for attention tend to come into campaign, because you can get attention at first. i don't mean those who have come forward are that. i don't mean to -- >> i was going to say, hold on. >> i don't mean to do that but i think we'll seeing some characters coming down the line. >> word of the day. >> thank you very much. still ahead, how the ongoing government shutdown is taking a far larger toll on the economy than previously expected. and president trump says he knows the art of the deal but privately he's reportedly questioning while he can't reach one with democrats. and rudy giuliani's comments. we'll be right back. giuliani'ss we'll be right back. voya helps them to and through retirement... ...dealing with today's expenses...

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does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ . good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, january 17th. along with joe, willie and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnic barnicle. washington anchor for bbc world news america, and in washington, reporter for the washington post, eugene scott. good to have you all on board. >> it is great to have everybody on board and i just -- you know, mika, you and willie and i, we've been tough on rudy

giuliani. >> willie especially. >> but one thing you've got to admit. the guy is consistent. no collusion, no collusion. >> he stays on it. >> like what's this? no collusion. that's his middle name. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> okay. willie, his eyes bulged after he said that my eyes just bulged as well. >> that was one you had to go back and listen to again. i saw it first on twitter. then i had to see it with my own eyes. rudy giuliani goes on tv to speak for the president. he said the president said there was never any collusion. he said he never said that. what? that's the president's entire argument. witch hunt, hoax, you can go back through and by the way, there are times again and again where the president hasn't just

said no collusion, but he said no collusion or from anyone on the campaign so he's not just talking about himself. rudy giuliani, i don't know where he was before the hit last night but too much truth perhaps came out. >> and willie, also, you have mike pence who said. >> oh, my gosh. >> mike, quote, we have defeated isis. pence saying we never even talked to anybody from russia. we just talked to americans about the campaign. and well, you know, listen, let's just do this. let's -- let's just get the pain over with. here's rudy giuliani in full. >> no collusion. >> the amount of false reporting about this case is despicable. >> mr. mayor, false reporting is saying that nobody in the campaign had any contacts with russia. false reporting is saying there has been no suggestion of any kind of collusion between the campaign and any russians. because now you have paul

manafort giving poll data that winds up leading to this coinciden coincidence. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign. >> yes, you have. >> i have not. i said the president of the united states. there is not a single bit of evidence the president of the united states committed the only crime he could commit here, conspired with the russians to hack the dnc. >> the crime is not about accountability with the president. >> the president did not collude -- >> he had nobody had contact. >> nobody colluded. the guy running his campaign was working on an issue at the same time as the convention. >> he said he didn't. he didn't say nobody. how would you know that nobody in your campaign. >> he actually did say that, rudy. he said nobody -- and then he said as far as i know. >> as far as he knows that's true. >> what time was this? was this interview late at night? let's get at it, baby.

>> getting at the -- after hours. >> he said rudy had lost a step or two. people around rudy had said during the transition when he wanted to be secretary of state that he had lost a step or two. this -- this looks like he's been cheating on his winstons for months. i don't know why they cope putting him out on tv because rudy giuliani just told america and the world that donald trump's campaign colluded with russia full stop, willie. >> ai don't think this is the great argument he believes it is. he's trying to make a distinction between the president himself and his campaign. i think in bob mueller's eyes and a prosecutor's eyes there is no real distinction there. yes, rudy giuliani late at night, we don't know what he's going to say, but we've also

seen in the past him introducing arguments in moments like this. in other words, he talks to donald trump a lot. maybe this is coming from somewhere else and not just from rudy giuliani sitting on tv. >> i'm sure he talks to donald trump a lot. i don't know whether donald trump is listening -- >> maybe they're pushing this line to rudy giuliani to put out. >> i don't know how long that segment was but if it were extended, if he were here for a half hour or 45 minutes i could almost guarantee you that we could go directly from the set with a pair of handcuffs and put them on donald trump. he's going to talk his client right into jail. it's incredible about how rudy giuliani restates misposition after position after position. >> he's looking wide eyed as if he's surprised about what rudy giuliani did u just did.

it does seem like he perhaps going offscript. i'm sure we'll play video clip showing there was no collusion at all. whether it was the campaign or the president himself with russia and he's changing that argument here. there have been moments where giuliani says something completely offscript. it seems completely nutty and later we find out there was at least a little bit of strategy to it including his first interview with shawn hannity, when he introduced the stormy daniels payment getting ahead of the idea that it was a campaign violation. that's the explanation, paul manafort sharing information with his russian friends, but it is possible that giuliani is trying to get out of some other bad newspaper that they think is

dropping, perhaps having some communication with the russians that they shouldn't. >> speaking of bad news, this is breaking news from the wall street yourjournal. going back to rudy giuliani, rudy is privately talking about how donald trump is a terrible client to work for, the mueller report is going to be devastating, some are everyone saying that he's suggesting that donald trump may have to resign. this is -- this is not exactly, you know, this is not exactly michael and the god father. he is -- he's -- he seems to have absolutely no discipline at this point and of course that's damaging donald trump every time he goes out and talks. >> and let's put it out there again. it was a late night television interview so we don't know what happened beforehand but every time giuliani goes on television you wonder whether the mueller report doesn't get extended by

another two or three weeks because they've got to go over -- you cannot discount this. this is the president's personal lawyer so if he goes on television and says i'm not sure there wasn't collusion in the campaign. as you are doing your job correctly as bob mueller you have to go into it and wonder what's behind it. more than likely it's paul manafort being thrown under the bus and this the giuliani saying we have to sacrifice paul manafo manafort. it had nothing to do with the campaign. let's shift the line to paul manafort who may have been operating as a rogue operator and of course there was no collusion with donald trump and maybe that is the argument -- maybe jonathan's right. maybe there's some other piece of evidence they're trying to protect. but if there's a strategy point

that came out, if there was one it could be to protect trump at the expense of manafort. >> yeah, i mean, for -- you know, to point out, there are other people who are on television at the same time as rudy giuliani. they were completely coherent, so i don't know why -- like we're half joking but we're half serious. >> rudy had a heavy meal. >> no, we're talking about whether or not he was -- >> it slows him down, slurs your words. >> no. >> i know if i have, mika, a big meal late at night before going on -- >> it's just really -- really hard because there's a couple of different people inned min strags -- in the administration we cannot believe ever. >> all right. you see what speaker pelosi did yesterday, mika? >> yes, so we're still in a government shutdown. it's at historic length in time now. people are really hurting and there's no end in sight. so house speaker nancy pelosi

called on the president to reschedule his state of the union address so for security concerns. pelosi made the request yesterday, just under two weeks before the president delivers the speech on january 29th. she also suggested the president could deliver the speech in writing. t the shutdown has put strains on the department of homeland security raising questions into the security planning that goes into this address. tweeting her department and the secret service are fully prepared to secure the state of thedown i don't know. she was motivated to make the request after her office had been contacted by a furloughed dhs employee. that employee apparently expressed serious concerns that the department has insufficient staffing levels to securely manage the address.

pelosi was asked further about the motivation behind her request yesterday by msnbc. >> do you hope he sees this as a consequence of the government shutdown sf. >> no, i just -- this is a housekeeping matter in the congress of the united states so that we can honor the promise we made. you can do it from the oval office. >> i wonder if the shutdown continues and the president uses that flat form as a way to brand the shutdown his way if it's even possible at this point, take advantage of the situation, but let's talk about the facts. nancy pelosi does have the right to not allow the president to deliver the state of the union in the halls of congress. correct? >> she does. it is a formality, the invitation is extended and this is part of the procedure that goes into hearing the state of

the union address. it's not as if the state of the union address has never been postponed. i mean, we know in 1986 after the challenger incident ronald reagan delayed his state of the union address, but the reality is, pelosi is responding to large percentage of the american public. the state of the union is in disarray because of the shutdown and would prefer to see lawmakers and the president get together to find resolutions. >> still ahead on "morning joe." >> we have won against isis. we've beaten them and we've beaten them badly. we've taken back the land and now it's time for our troops to come back home. >> president trump said that just last month and after a new

attack in syria where four americans were killed, we know that's not true. that story is coming up. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the approaching winter storm. >> an incredible storm that's already taking place. we have a lot of concerns especially out here. this is the santa barbara area and this is a flash flood warning. remember the thomas fire? that burn scar has had two to three inches of rain on it. they already have highways closed because of mud slides. all the of this is shifting over down toward the los angeles area. we've also seen blizzard conditions. winds have gusted up to 90 miles per hour in the mountains of california along with this storm. it's like hurricane gusts in a blizzard. we'll take you across the country. the next area is going to be the northeast and this will start saturday afternoon, go hard

saturday night all through sunday morning, be exiting as we go throughout sunday afternoon and sunday evening. this red is 18 plus inches of snow. we're predicting 18 to 24 right through all of vermont, new hampshire. boston right around a foot possibly for this storm. a little less for hartford and here's the map that will have the greatest impact, is not where the greatest snow, but this area of ice could be an ice storm, south of boston, connecticut, possibly new york city areas and the mountains of virginia and west virginia, potential of power outages from freezing rain come sunday morning. a high impact event now in california. we'll take you all the way to the east coast this coming weekend. >> as of now i think you're about three to four inches of snow with the sleet and freezing rain on top. what a messy sunday it's going to be.

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now know, mike, yesterday one of the real bush league moves over the past couple of days was when mike pence went out and announced that isis had been defeated just like donald trump had announced isis had been defeated. take a quick look. >> thanks to the leadership of this commander in chief and the courage and sacrifice of our armed forces, we're now actually able to begin to hand off the fight against isis in syria to our coalition partners and we are bringing our troops home. t isis has been defeated. >> mike, what makes that even more bush league is, that was after the attack. the attack where four americans were killed, twice as many as had been killed in a two to

three-year long deployment and boy, you listen to lindsey graham, marco rubio, there are more than a few republicans suggesting that it was donald trump's retreat from the region and him handing it over to vladimir putin and the moles in iran and assad that actually encouraged isis to attack yesterday. >> joe, this is another result of foreign policy by impulse, which is what donald trump's stramt real statement really was. we're going to withdraw all of our troops from syria within 30 days. that's what he originally said and now vice president pence speaking about isis as if it has been defeated, it has not been defeated. isis is an ideology that is rooted in the grounds and syria happens to be a hot bed of isis. it's thriving to oocertaa turn .

it has been diminished. there's no doubt about that but it is not defeated. >> and yet the president is standing firm. he got support from senator rand paul saying thank you for pulling us out and getting out of these never ending wars. i don't get the impression and jonathan can speak to this too that the president is reconsidering the idea of getting out of syria. >> he didn't understand why americans were fighting around the world, bits of the world that didn't really concern america and it played into this narrative that he has that america is somehow being taken advantage of. syria is far away. it doesn't really affect us. we had not just the attack yesterday in syria. we had the attack the day before in kenya. this is a dangerous ideology that is clearly right there and while in the house i couldn't

see, if we hadn't have been there in the first place, then they wouldn't have been killed. i'm sure general mattis told them it's very different thing about talking to going in and once you are there you're putting yourself and your allies and risk and yesterday's attack, if this is isis wanting to show they are still present, this is exactly the kind of thing that comes about from something like michael's foreign policy by impulse. >> and i -- it's not the first time that isis is going to fill a power void that was created by the united states and the speedy retreat. it's happening again, mika, and when you actually have the vice president who good luck running in any -- any republican primary in the future ever again for the rest of his life, maybe he and rand paul can go out and golf in kentucky like in their old age, because that's about as close as

he's going to get to an office again. but, you know, you -- you go out and you say that isis is dead, isis is finished. isis is wiped out. all you're doing is encouraging, mika, the type of attacks that we saw yesterday that killed four americans. >> this isn't high level thinking. this is pretty basic and it was -- that was pretty staggering. i'm not sure how he could bring himself to do that or how unaware he could have been. >> you mean mike pence saying that after -- >> yes, absolutely. coming up on "morning joe," the trump administration has floated the idea of using disaster funding to pay for the president's border wall. we'll talk to a top house democrat who's trying to make sure that does not happen. "morning joe" is coming right back. ing right back i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying

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more now on the dynamic playing out between president trump and speaker nancy pelosi. trump often boasts that he knows the art of the deal. but he is privately asking aides why he can't get one in the shutdown. with every poll showing americans holding the president responsible the "new york times" reports that trump has told top

aides he believes overtime the country will not remember the shutdown, but it will remember that he stayed to fight over the insistence that the corn border is protected. trump told his acting chief of staff, after watching some recent coverage of the shutdown according to one person familiar with the conversation, why can't we get a deal? the washington post notes that trump is a proud counter puncher but when it comes to nancy pelosi he has pulled back on his jabs. that is deliberate aides and advisors said because the president believes she would help protect him from impeachment because he considers her more reasonable than other democrats. privately one advisor said trump has complained about the quotes he reads from pelosi about him in newspapers, but has said that he is impressed by her political savvy and one other thing, joe. the data shows that the lack of

support for the wall, i'm not sure how important this small base of his is at this point but as time goes by and reporting on the wall continues, you know, you watch the president getting schooled himself by people who work at the border about tunnels that can be built under the wall, like the wall does not mean border security even on a physical level. and i think people understand that. >> well, they do understand that and again, even republicans have understood that for the first two years of donald trump's presidency. that's why less than one in four republicans supported the idea of donald trump's wall and wouldn't even support a bill that would give him $1.6 billion to start the wall. john cornyn said walls aren't really a good deterrent because people can go over them or through them or they can climb under them. lindsey graham said the same thing. it's just not a smart investment and eugene scott, you have the

president who just thinks he can bully nancy pelosi and democrats the way he bullied and blustered republicans, this is a man again who seems woefully ill equipped to be president of the united states because he doesn't understand the most basic concepts about checks and balances and separations of power. >> absolutely. and part of the reason he does not understand this is because his fellow lawmakers from his party haven't held him accountable and forced him to understand this. prior to now we've seen them consistently back his ideas no matter how early advice they've been from people more knowledgeable on these topics and right now we're seeing some type of erosion from the gop saying this is not the fight they're willing to die on and that's in part because they know they no longer have the support of the american people. when the president ran for president, the majorities of americans didn't support the wall then.

that was before it would come with a government shutdown that would cause people to suffer. if the president wants to negotiate a deal he's going to have to realize that he's going to the table desiring something that many people in this country have believed for a long time is not in the best way to protect the border. >> and coming up, the case for impeachment. the atlantic's new cover story makes quite a statement. we'll talk to the author of the piece straight ahead on "morning joe." piece straight ahead on "morning joe.

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not getting paid for. >> i just met somebody a minute ago at air traffic controller here who worked throughout the holidays and on friday received a paycheck for 77 cents. >> the biggest fear jenny says, they were told they'd be evicted from their rental home come february. >> from what we've been told they have no problem evicting us as soon as they can. >> everything to communicate with that airplane, that's the stuff that his team takes care of. >> we've been told to not work on something unless it's actually broke where as we would normally be working to improve the systems, the layer of the on i don't know are being peeled back. the redundancies that are built in should make it safe but the longer the shutdown goes, the more the chance of something happening. >> a lot of our friends, they don't understand why we're not getting paid.

trying to figure out what we're going to put on hold until next time is probably the most difficult. >> more of the stories from across the country from federal workers struggling to make ends meet as a result of the government shutdown. the president will call that adjusting. that compilation put together by our colleagues at all in. for more, let's bring in dominick chu. these workers taking a hit, the white house says the economy may get harder than first thought by this. >> that's right. a lot of estimates now. the chairman of the council of economic atdvisors say they coud see a tenth of a point shaved off u.s. economic activity for every week that the shutdown persists. if it goes another week or so, you'll see the economic impact to gdp around $6 billion.

that's even more than the cost of what he wants for that wall. this all underlies the overall economic theme for this shutdown. this will have an impact on the u.s. economy but it comes down to like you said, for individuals it really is a story about those circumstances for those lucky enough to have savings to tap, it's been a great safety net for those living expenses. those who rely on that check to make ends meet it's obviously a lot harder. some ramping up early withdrawals from their retirement plans. they're going to pay a big penalty for it and they're of course going to deplete any money they have in retirement. some experts are looking for others to tap unemployment benefits but if you get back pay you need to pay that back eventually. all of those, many are looking toward the community. some are providing free assistance programs or big

discounts. so many of these stories are making their way through the ranks and they will have an impact on the economy. >> thank you very much for that. meanwhile, the house has passed its latest plan to reopen the government. as demi kraocrats along with si republicans approved a measure yesterday that would provide more than $12 billion in disaster rate and fund parts of the government through february 8th. the house is expected to pass another continuing resolution today aimed at funding the government through february 28th. joining us now, chair of the house appropriations committee, nita lowey of new york. i take it the president's idea to use disaster relief funds toward the -- you know, the wall or the shutdown and to solving all these problems is a no-go for you. >> you are right, mika. thank you very much. look, it's very clear from the

beginning, i'm an appropriate yeah tor. i alwa -- appropriator. i reach across to senator shelby, we get things done. so this kind of shutting the government down, not paying people their salaries that they deserve, seeing all the struggle that you were discussing is just implo immoral. it's wrong. we could get this done and remember this all began and we had a solution to it. we took six bills from appropriations that were passed through the senate and it was passed either through the committees or the full senate and we said, let's take those, pass them and then we could have 30 days to talk about the most effective ways to do homeland security. easy. we could have gotten this done. it's amoral that this is the

27th day of the government shutdown. >> amazing. >> what sort of response do republicans when you -- you all are trying to pass republican drafted, republican sponsored bills that they supported several weeks ago but aren't supporting now? >> you got it, joe. because as appropriators we all work together. they must be mortified. they must be embarrassed. they're not admitting it publicly. i keep trying to share the news with my friends that this is wrong. we've got to get together, open the government and have a serious discussion about how best to secure the the borders and remember, they know that over 80%, perhaps even more of the oip yopioids coming into th country are at ports of entry. there's all kinds of technology we should be using. this is a waste of taxpayer time

and it's an embarrassment and i don't know how the republicans can even look at themselves in the mirror. we should be working together, open the government and get this done. >> it's willie geist. good to see you this morning. you got only six republicans to join you to vote for the bill you put on the table to use some of that disaster relief functions. you've worked in that building behind you for some time now. help the american people understand a possible way out of this. i know this is your attempt, at least in the short term, but if you have a president who is standing hard and fast on the $5.7 billi $5.7 billion figure, where does that leave you. >> how do you get out of this so those people can get paid? >> i'm hoping a group of senators will say to mitch mcconnell, you can't just take a

position where you're going to do whatever president trump wants you to do. the senate is an independent body and we took their bills, brought them to the house, we should be able to work together to get a real homeland security bill done whether it's 30 days, whether it's two weeks, they were experts that we can work with and get it done in a bipartisan way. i know that if i sat down with senator shelby, kay granger, without any outside interference, we could get this done. >> so congresswoman, off of what willie just asked you, you've been around a while. you have good relationships on the other side of the aisle and you just referenced in commenting to joe that some of the members of the republican party and the house, they say things privately about how outrageous this is, the ongoing government shutdown. give us a taste of what they say to you privately.

no names, but what do they say off the floor of the house to you about what is going on and their party's following the president right off the cliff? >> you know, i really believe that they are so afraid of the president's tweets because i've never seen a government run by the president's tweets. they're so afraid of being attacked in their own district that they are very, very quiet. this is not the normal appropriation way of functioning. i memgs mentioned before, we all work in a bipartisan way. we have differences of opinion but then we get together. look, the right thing now, they know, is to open the government and then have a serious discussion. yesterday we had a really important disaster bill. but how can you deal with that disaster bill when the government is closed? when tsa workers are not going to work?

i've been to the airport. i've talked to them. they all want to go to work. so we have to open the government and then have some serious discussion. i do hope that president trump will see the light and understand that this is childish o, this is not the way to function. we're adults and we as appropriators are used to working together in a bipartisan way. >> you've talked about a lot just now about how things used to be by working in a bipartisan fashion to get things done. but in this age of president trump there's been very little to have that sort of compromise, so what are the democrating willing to give here what sort of compromise are you willing to put on the table if you're asking the president to budge off of his number for the wall, what will you give? >> i want to make this clear that we can have serious negotiations as we did on the homeland security bill.

there are differences of opinions, but we know as i mentioned that over 80% of the opioids that the president and other people talk about come through the ports of entry. you know, you talk about barriers. they could go under a barrier, over a barrier. they could have a ladder. elet's sit down seriously with the experts and put together a bill. all this is on the table. this is not secret information. there's been one person testifying after another before our committee as how you have syria's homeland security. let's open the government, let's pay the employees, let's make sure our government is functioning. let's sit down at a table. democrat and republican have serious negotiation. it's time to open the government. 27 days? this is the longest shutdown in history that i can recall.

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we have all from day one said there has never been any russian collusion. the president has said it. jared has said it. anybody in our family, anyone involved with the campaign will tell you that is completely ludicrous. >> that was president trump's daughter-in-law and campaign surrogate lara trump speaking 30 minutes after the president's lawyer said this. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign. or between people in the campaign. >> okay. the question of collusion dominates the day. our next guest argues we should be taking a look at the bigger picture. he writes for the atlantic. quote, the oath of office is the president's promise to sub boo d nate his private desires to the public interest. to serve the nation as a whole

rather than any faction within it. trump displays no evidence he understands these obligations. to the contrary, he has routinely privileged his self-interest above the responsibilities of the presidency. that is from his cover story for the march issue of the atlantic. entitled impeach donald trump. in which he argues that, quote, starting the process will rein in a president who is undermining american ideals and bring the debate about his fitness for office into congress where it belongs. joining us now, senior editor of the atlantic, yoni applebaum. thank you for being with us this morning. when you consider the concept of impeaching, though, many might argue that perhaps the president leaving office on the will of the voters would be a lot less of a destructive way to make a point that american values and american voters will have the

final say as to trump's fate. >> yes, that's a great point and it's where i started when i launched into this article. but the more i learned about what the founders had in mind, the more i looked at the text of the constitution, the more i realized it's a process, not an outcome, and it's designed to channel the passions of a debate like the one we're already having into an orderly process for resolution. >> is your argument that donald trump should be impeached, convicted and removed from office or is your argument mainly that just the process of beginning impeachment proceedings would act as a check on the worst instincts and force this debate to be front and center in congress and all across america? >> i think there's no question that if you simply start the process impeachment yields, variety of benefits, whether or not it goes through to removal. as you know, that's not something the republican majority in the senate is inclined to do.

even absent that, every time congress has judged a president unfit for office and started these proceedings, it's yielded concrete benefits for the system as a whole that stand whatever the outcome. >> any concern about the 40% of americans who still support donald trump and would see this as actually confirmation of their worst suspicions of elites? >> well, i think that american people are deeply divided over this presidency. and we're already having this debate. there's 43% who believe their president is their leader and stand by him resolutely and a larger percentage who regard it as dangerous. not to bring the debate into congress is what's dangerous. his senior aides leave and tell us to judge them not by what

they've done during their time in office, from what they stopped the president from doing. courts keep slapping down his initiatives. that's really dangerous because we're not putting the debate where the constitution told us to have it. >> the oath of office ends with to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states of america. you can make a strong case, clearly you do, that he has done neither pep has not preserved, he has not protected the constitution. the fear factor involved is such that it -- part of it is legitimate. what happens to the process? what happens to the country, putting them through an impeachment? how do you response to that? >> after the impeachment of richardson, his former attorney general, wrote an article for the atlantic where at the looked back at what the last years had done and he concluded it was about restoring processes and procedures. right now, donald trump is erousing such intense opposition

from his own staff as well as from the public that they are opposing him in lots of extra constitutional ways. if you trigger this process and move the debate back where it belong, you can restore order. you can restore respect for institutions and that's the process toward healing and coming together. >> thank you very much. a lot to consider there. now this. former democratic congressman beto o'rourke set out for his solo road trip across the country yesterday. as politico report, his advisers are quietly preparing for a 2020 presidential campaign. and o'rourke made a post on medium about his travels, which includes this paragraph. quote, i have been stuck lately in and out of a funk. my last day of work was january 2nd. it's more than 20 years since i was last not working.

maybe if i get moving on the road, meet people, learn about what's going on, where they live, have some adventure, go where i don't know and i'm not known, it will clear my head. reset. i'll think new thoughts. break out of loops i've been stuck in. >> jonathan, kerorack 2020. >> from my hometown. this is not an unusual move, this listening tour. it's in his brain. >> loops in his brain. you don't admit to people you're looping. the wrong kind of listening tour. >> messing up the speaking part of it perhaps. certainly, some of his posts, his comments, have raised questions, the things he said about the constitution. seem trumpian in their attempt to suggesting changing things. he is a bright star right now.

but he does run the risk perhaps of that fading. you know this is someone who comes out of -- even though it was a loss in the senate race, came out with a lot of momentum. the obama team suggested quietly he could get some of their support. people are drawn to his charisma. the issue, will he, however, can he reveal himself to have substantial policy issues as well and not just be someone to project their hopes upon. not sure if this rope trip's helping. >> the road trip mike over the past couple of days yielded some bad results. he's got voices in his head. he's looping. and he's questioning whether the constitution -- >> looping is bad. >> -- of the united states is still relevant in 2019. does that sound familiar? >> yes, unfortunately, it does, for beto. i think it's a good idea for him to take this road trip. i hope he doesn't stop at another dentist's office and take us with him. but, you know, joe, i mean, this

country -- >> or proctologist. >> it's great for o'rourke or any of the candidates to spent more time out in the country. >> listening to people instead of voices in your head. looping. >> a lot of therapists will say looping is very unhealthy. okay no looping. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, first, it was no collusion. then it was collusion is not a crime. now this. from mayor rudy giuliani. >> i never said there was no collusion between the campaign. or between people and the campaign. i have no idea. >> yes, you have. >> i have not. >> but, mr. giuliani, let's go to the tapes. because the tape says otherwise. and this comes as a new report