because he is so caught up in the give and take that he is not looking at the fact that people are suffering. people don't know when they're going to get paid again. i think he is tone deaf and he will bring them down. >> that is my thanks. michael steele, thank you for my all-star panel. "mtp daily." he is already saying hi, if it is friday and if it is true, this presidency is in peril. >> good even, welcome to mtp dal daily. if the bomb shell is true, that e he directed michael cohen to

lie and obscure them, the biggest two words in american politics right now are "if true. if true it it would mean the president committed a crime. it would all but assure impeachment proceedings. it would put donald trump, and potentially ivanka as well, in possible trump, so is it true? ? just a moment we have an exclusive interview. lanny davis will be speaking out for the first time since the story dropped and he is not denying it it. acarding two what buzz feed calls two legal officials, he said the president personally instructed him to lie to congress. with that trump tower moscow

meeting. nbc news has not confirmed it. remember it has been established in public court filings that cohen was circulating his false testimony with folks at the white house and was in contact with them. that was filed by robert mueller, no one denied the aemgs at the center of the story. but finally a few hours ago, rudy julianny finally did saying any session from any source that the president counciled michael cohen to lie is categorically false. the claims are more lying born of more mallace. joining me now is lanny davis. let me start right off. you did not deny this story. you have in the past denied others and corrected the record

when something has been wrong. yesterday michael cohen confirmed the wall street journal story immediately. nothing now. what can you tell us about this story? >> you only said half of what we corrected last night, mr. cohen and mooims. we do not deny or confirm, we're just not commenting on the story and i'm adding today another comment. he had nothing to do with the writing of this story. he didn't initiate the story. it was done by independent reporting. the story stands on it's own. mr. cohen under guidelines that he has discussed with the special council, 70 hours aof meetings, it does not have anything to do with the special council including to story. >> in fairness you have corrected stories that were false before involving michael cohen, but now you're choosing

not to, is there anything to correct in the story. >> i can't help you on that, chuck. i'm just going to say read the story and they have written about their sources and other corroborating evidence, and i can't confirm anything. i have no independent knowledge by the way. mr. cohen's conversations with mr. mueller, i did not attend those meetings, so i can just tell you what we came up with last night which is simply a no comment. >> when it is the last time you spoke to him. >> an hour ago. >> what is his reaction to the public's story. >> he just had surgery on his shoulder. >> i just saw that, it was a bone spur. i was going to say it was a fistfight with president trump, but it wasn't even worth joking

about, he has a shoulder issue that is now taken care of. >> why is he okay confirming about the rigged polls but not this? >> this is more sensitive, and when i talked to him last night he said we're just going to have to say no comment and he wanted me to stress that he did not initiate this story. >> why do you feel the ahead to need to have to do that. >> some people called me and saw me behind the story or mr. cohen behind the story. and it was all braise by mr. mueller's story. neither to confirm or deny. >> you know when you do that to many people it is a confirmation. >> i understand either way you

can intera nondenial denial. since he is the subject of the story, he talked to mr. mueller at length and he instructed me not to confirm or deny and he had nothing to do with it. >> if this story is true, it will lead to impeachment of the sitting president of the united states. if the story is not true don't you have an only indicati l obl us. >> i have to honor and respect bob mueller, to be a nominee in possible future attorney general respects bob mueller, and anything, as much as the media would like michael to say yes or no or maybe, anything to do with the mr. mueller investigation he does not want to comment on nor will he on the february 7th

hearing that is planned. >> is it definitely planned? you said he was concerned about his safety and by the way safety from whom? >> mr. trump again called out his father-in-law and there is fare that mr. trump has supporters in the country or abroad that have motivation to harm -- >> you just said abroad, that's not so subtle there. does he fear a retribution from russia? >> no question that his family is fearful of anyone that opposes donald trump, and today he retweeted again, the president of the united states, trying to intimidate a witness that is trying to tell the truth, and called him a rat for telling the truth. that sounds like a don, like in

"godfather 2." when the guy looks around and sees his brother from sicily, says i'm not going to talk. it creates fear in the family of michael cohen. >> why is it that you have been a practicing lawyer, if cohen told the special council that the president directed him to lie, why do you think it wasn't in mueller's filing when the plea agreement, when mr. cohen plead guilty. in the filing it saying hoe just circumstan -- he just circulated his filing, it was in that filing that is what he described. why wouldn't bob mueller put it in the filing directly. why is that one not in the filing if it happened.

>> the absence of something doesn't always infer something. secondly we know that mr. mueller did not disclose everything in his filings, and we also know and i hope everyone reads what mr. mueller said about michael cohen as well as the second district of new york prosecutors and the judge that seaso sentenced him. >> what made him credible, what he said or other physical evidence. >> i can only surprise that nobody in the general justice system takes something alone that is subject to credibility challenges. mr. mueller has a reputation that corroboration, documentation, and other evidence is always needed in order for something this serious to be taking place.

in this case it is my assumption that mr. mueller is operating on the same rule that it has to have corroboration. >> so far they're saying he was directed to make hush money payments. he says he was directed to rig the poles, and now he supposedly said the president directed him to lie. are there other lies that the president directed him to do. >> no, but one witness on the payment on this hush money at the end of an lex campaign with no doubt undisputed reimbursement of michael cohen, his name is rudy giuliani. the very man that challenges michael cohen's credibility one day said we never said

collusion, and then on the next day said well there miegtt have be might have been collusion and he admitted to the reimbursement of michael cohen for the payment of this money. so he seems to like to stay ahead of the curve with bad news, but he is contradictory the next day. there was hush money paid to silence stormy daniels. >> i want to go back to the beginning. you wanted to come on. it was my understanding that you wanted to make a comment on this story, but you won't confirm or deny it. what should people take away? do you think the buzz feed story is a legitimate story or not? >> i wanted to come on and talk about the president of the united states threatening a family. every trump supporter watching this show and i'm sure there are many, every republican and democratic member of congress,

knows that we all agree at a time of fantastically bad division in this country, there is one thing we all agree on. family is out of bounds. there is only one person in the country, one president in our history, that would threaten family as a tactic to make fear of somebody he calls a rat, and they should be holding him accountable. that is why i wanted to come on. >> february 7th. michael cohen will be talking to congress. . >> when will we find out? >> in the next week or so. >> if the president directing michael cohen to lie to

congress, that would be a crime. >> in your memo, you talk about the comey decision and you talk about obstruction of justice and you already went over that which i appreciate. you wrote on page one that a president persuading a person to commit perjury would be obstruction, is that right? >> yes. >> any person who picture sue s persuades's -- >> and on page two you said that a president deliberately impairing the integrity or availability of evidence would be an obstruction, is that right? >> yes. >> so what if a president told a witness not to cooperate with an investigation or hinted at a pardon?

>> i would have to know the specific facts. >> senior fellow at the national institute, carol, what did you learn? >> they like this. he had a number of chances to knock it down, or even try to just credit any piece of it. and he chose not to. to me i think the question is in terms of whether or not the documentation there is about the e-mails, texts, or other dukts, if that is a direct link to president trump or is, as we have seen previously, if he is one ring removed from it. president trump wants o you to do x, or that it is something that is linked to the president

as we have been talking about extremely damaging. >> i would have liked to hear a little more from lanny davis about the story, but at the end he stressed the point which is what we are forgetting. the president going off cohen ice family is really outrageous. and if there was not 100 other things that we were talking about, we would be making a big deal out of it. >> i agree with that entirely. if he came on the show with no comment, this was his return shot to the president's tweet. i think he is also trying to advance it himself. he said he is afraid. maybe he won't even go to the

podium there, or the witness chair, in congress because he and his family is aphrase. >> can you address where do you think if michael cohen said it was donald trump that directed him to do this, why wasn't it in the agreement? sort of, it was ambiguous, vague, and lead us to believe what does that mean? if indeed this is what happened, why would mueller be obligated to put that in the court finding. >> he was not, but there could be reasoning including on going investigativetivity whe investigative activity. >> that seemed to be, carroll, something that is why this story feels credible. we already have a course filing

say they already circulated testimony, we don't know if they knew it was false, the president could be lying to them. >> and you could envision why mueller may not disclose this piece of it it. ivanka trump and don junior, there could be investigations into that. they said in september that he was aware of this moscow project and it suggested something dramatically different that he was briefed and involvemented in that. you can see why it was not part of the initial filing. >> let me hit the pause button here. are democrating finding a new sense of urgency to start impeachment before mueller finishes? impeachment before mueller finishes as well as all the things you want to do. because when you're ready for what comes next, the only direction is forward.

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the impeachment question. >> i don't want to get into that right now. >> that was steny hoyer, my guests stuck around for me and joining us now is peter baker. all right, peter, let me get you in on this, i think the largest question is does this buzz feed story accelerate house democrats desire to essentially start this process whether it is full fledged impeachment or whatever it is before mueller ends? >> i think so, they have been wanting to push through a anti-climatic line. they're nerve us about impeachment, they're nervous and not sure if that is a smart play

for them. we would have to have at least 20 senate republicans going against the president. this does potentially change things. we don't know what was really said or not said. they are able to quirk this report. if something comes along this line, testimony to congress is as inherent in what the house of respects does. it's that they don't have to wait for mueller to get into that. they have to make sure to not conflict, and i think you're right you see a lot of results from the rank and file system. >> president trump has, for him, been fairly muted in responding to this. there has not been denies.

he started with a caravan tweet. he passed on a rumor about rayer rugs on the southern border. he is trying to stoke some flame of that immigration flame on this story. what do you make of how the president has handled this. you brought up the threat to michael cohen's family and she going back to the southern border. >> he is doing that, but there is also an attack on the credit ability. he is shady, you can't trust what he says, and that is true but it doesn't reflect well on the judgment of the long-time top lawyer nap is not a sufficient answer since according to the story he is not the source. he is not the -- it is not all just michael cohen say so that people are relying on. >> i think the bagest thing that we don't talk about enough is that when rudy giuliani schemes

changing stories, there may be a reason they have to change their story, their client is not telling them the truth and they're learning more. >> it is fairly typical for defense council. so the information is circulating in the defense team overall. we also know that manafort's lawyers were communicating with bob mueller, so yes, they are learning things they may not have heard directly from president trump. if mueller has this, and i think this is what you hear from members of congress and i even heard on the republican side, it is sort of like we have to get on with this. one way or the other. this is incredibly serious. will we wait another six weeks

to take it up? >> that is a real pressure right now on mueller that i don't think we have seen. it is the first time it really feels strongly. look, this is, we need to move on because this is bad for the country, it is hanging over everything, the president's ability to do foreign and domestic policy, congress to function, this in particular and because it relates so directly to congress, creating a whole other level of pressure we have not really seen yet. if you're going to decide the president's fate, there is that line of when is it time to wait for november of 2020 versus no, deal with it now. >> i think that is a real important debate, every month that we go forward into 2019, more candidates are starting to talk about debates an campaign

activity. it is not a train of thinking among president trump's fiercest critic ps they have said let's settle this at the ballot box. that is going to be a defwhat will be interesting to see how it plays out. waiting in the wings is mic pence if they were able to deal with mike pence in 2020 instead of president trump. >> when does a political survival mode kick in when you say let's say we're dealing with impeachment, kind of in this recession all of a sudden, maybe the shut down contributed to it. there is fear with the economy, does it become a vote of convenience? if that is a dead end with him at the top of the ticket. what i call the sengs of the

senate, those to me are the ones to watch they're not hard trumpies and not soft moderates. >> i think a lot will defend on forecasting their reaction. the soft supporters of the president that start peeling away. not all of them are part of a consult of trump. i thought that we had bipartisan precede precedent. >> nixon's impeachment, false and giving statements, efforts to influence the statements. >> in clinton's case, both reached that conclusion. we're going to have to see whether or not the facts bear this out. i also remind you that the senate trial on clinton took place in 1999. it was a lot of presidential election coming up the following

year and they still went ahead and did it. >> i just think that you know there is probably one thing that members of congress liked leading to. precedent and norms like they just kind of -- we don't know they apply right now. bob, you said that the senate is not required to have a trial even if the house impeaches, explain. >> the constitution is very limited in what it says about the impeachment process. there are certain norms that have been followed, the senate learned early on there was not enough votes on a motion to dismiss to convict bill clinton but the proceeding was taken to it's conclusion. it is not inconceivable that the

republicans have decided, and they're trying to condition for defeat in 2020. mitch mcconnell will decide there will be no trial. >> a merrick garland situation? st. >> it is not time to do it, but let the american public decide the fate of donald trump. >> and he alone could decide if there is a trial or not. >> he can make it very difficult for the senate to take it up. correct. >> how about that. we will dismiss you on the panel from that. the rest of the panel sticks around. up ahead, could what the president reportedly told cohen to lie about be a bigger deal than the lelged lie zits? we're going to assess that after the break. e going to assess thar the break. i hear it in the background and she's watching too, saying [indistinct conversation]

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>> welcome back tonight. could president trump face a primary challenger from washington's backyard? one of the most popular governors in the country is sparking 2020 rumors. >> wow. >> maryland republican governor larry hogan used his second inaugural speech to talk about

washington dysfunction. >> including just town the down the road in washington. he recalled how his late father, a republican congressman, called for nixon's impeachment. >> despite tremendous political pressure, he answered the demands of his conscious. >> if that is not enough, take note he is also reportedly going to iowa in just a few weeks. >> let's continue to set an champls for washington. >> they last voted republican in 1988. but is he too moderate for this current version of the republican party? we'll be back with more "mtp

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i know nothing about russia. i know about russia, but i know nothing about the innerwork iins of russia. i don't have any loans or businesses with russia. >> we know from court filings he was getting regular updates about negotiations to build trump tower in moscow from michael cohen, but we don't know how serious this was. buzz feed indicates they were more serious than they lead on. joining us is a vocal opponent of vladimir putin, mr. casper, also good to see you. or at least virtually here, let me ask you about the specifics and walk us through how putin

uses business in order to create relationships like the one he has with president trump or others around the world? how does he go through this? >> the kgb are experts in real estate. i think it would be incompetent for them to not collect chi compromising data on trump for years. i think there is one very important detail. he has been talking about funding banks. i think that trump was already in bed with russians and he had no doubt that putin would use

this compromising information that could blow up trump's campaign at any given point. >> what do you fear more when it comes to president trump. that he is compromised by putin, or one of the alternative theories is that he just agrees and it is his world view, too. >> trump has an affection for dictators, and he has praised all that you can find on the map. with putin i think it is different. trump has been trying to hide notes about his meeting with putin. it is another that it was something there that trump didn't want us to know. all of trump's big decisions are somehow connected to his interesting and help him reach his political goals. >> let me ask a cynical question. can you do business in moscow without putin's permission? >> no.

it was the case even ten years ago, i don't know about 20 years ago. >> even if you're a legitimate corporation. american corporations still try to have -- is it just very different where the system in russia is basically runs the economy? >> it is not so much the government, i would call it a mafia structure. he controls the stake holders. if it is a big deal you need his ultimate approval. >> peter baker, you have a question? >> yeah, i was wondering what you think -- what do you think he thinks he got out of this? the moment that the united states is not for the most part lifting sanctions, is he

satisfied with the disruption? american democracy and society? of course he is expecteding trump top have sanctions. but trump failed because he could not rally enough support with his own party, and i think the vote about sanction s on russia was senators that were for it. recently they prevented sanctions to stay. but the most important thing is that putin is seen as someone that could control america. and the fact that the united states, and the you nigunited k are in turmoil.

putin wants chaos. they're better. putin doesn't care about public opinion, about parliament approval, about anything. so he can move forces and money around just pushing a button. and the fact is that america is now leaving syria, the middle east, and looks very vulnerable, fragile, that helps putin with his strength at home. >> i would say you're from the more hawkish wing, the more anti-russia wing, does it still exist? >> i think it still exists. i think we have seen votes that suggest that it exists, but it is shrinking. it switched because of trump. the line up of partisanship has pulled them in a different

direction. this is not just any old perjury. if it happened it is something that gave more compromising information to the government. >> is it possible that putin is thinking "i didn't want trump to win, i wanted an extraordinarily weak hillary clinton so that trump could be a foil and continue to -- that everybody here -- that he got too much of what he wanted. >> that was most likely the case. i think putin originally believes that he could be an ice breaker to weaken hillary clinton, and trump kept repeating the kremlin hash tag that the election was rigged. it is so-called he elections, and possibly republican control of the house to start the impeachment process. we don't know all of the

details, but i guess they were caught by surprise, but they tried to get benefits out of that and i think november and december it was michael flynn still being in the picture. especially lifting sanctions and recognizing crimea. >> but if trump goes down, does putin realize that is probably suddenly taking a massive step back when it comes to his attempt to manipulate the rests? >> i think it is pushing trump into the white house, a great kjb success, but also a miscalculati miscalculation. now they tried to be on the appeasement side and now it is hawkish. i think it will not take much time for republicans to go back

to this original position, so it means that the united states is united as probably at a time of the cold car. >> that is exactly the point that i thought you would make there. good to catch up with you. thank you for coming on and sharing your viewing. much appreciated. all right, panel, you're sticking around, a story for south carolina and oklahoma and arizona and north dakota and new mexico, yeah! rth dakota and new mexico, yeah to make you everybody else... ♪ ♪ means to fight the hardest battle, which any human being can fight and never stop. does this sound dismal? it isn't. ♪ ♪ it's the most wonderful life on earth. ♪ ♪ billions of problems.

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okay, welcome back, tonight i'm obsessed with political memes, the grand daddy of them all. >> we're going back to washington dc to take back the white house! >> before there was chocolate rain and grumpy cat, and double rainbow, there was howard dean. that happened 15 years ago this weekend. it was politics first viral moment of the 21th century and hoe how viral it went. >> did you see the speech last night. did you see him screaming at everybody. that has to be a little unusual. >> manic, some say insane. >> this land will surely vote for me.

>> apparently he has escaped. >> yeah! it sounds a little horse, doesn't he? but 15 minutes later it still has us talking. some say it was dramatic. others say it was an imalistic. >> still, others say it was juvenile honestly, isn't it incredible how much has changed? there really was a time when a single noise derailed a presidential run and it begs the question what would happen now in the age of trump? would it be a career killer or a viral launch pad? or would it even matter at all? we may never know, but the dean

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time now for the lid. panel is back. carol lee, peter baker. i want to put up a full screen of somebody's work today that peter baker is familiar with. it happens to be from the "new yorker," and susan glasser's washington letter. it was her lead that sort of got me and it sort of gets us into the shutdown here, guys. almost every day since trump was elected someone somewhere has asked if this is the constitutional crisis we have been waiting for. was this firing of the fbi director james comey in what seemed to be an effort to stop the investigation to his chain the constitutional crisis? or is continual talk of firing the special counsel or is actual firing of the attorney general days before the midterm elections when trump deployed thousands of troops to the border to combat a nonexistent

invasion. i thought that might finally be the crisis but of course every day of the last two years has brought something that would have previously been unthinkable when we really finally learn that just because it is unthinkable, doesn't mean it can't happen. this is the world we live in at the two-year anniversary of the trump presidency. >> well, i think one thing we've learned over the last two years is that norms are easier to break than they are to build up. i mean, just try to think of what it would take to sort of go back to an older and more placid style of politics than the one we have now. >> the halcyon days of 2015. >> exactly. >> june 14, 2015. >> we didn't think of as being all that happy at the time, of course. >> i would add that, you know, that's everything right now, in a time capsule but there are other things that are on the horizon that could potentially just add to all this. like does the president declare a national emergency? is that the constitutional crisis? we're constantly in this state of not just what's happening right now and what just happened yesterday or five hours ago but what's going to happen tomorrow

or the next day or the next week. >> peter baker, at some point, elected washington leaders that are not named donald trump, you'd think, might want to act. >> well, it depends on what you count to be action. the truth is elected leaders to some extent have acted. they have, you know -- they have not actually gone along with president trump on his full agenda. they have, in fact, taken actions at times that were, you know, made a statement. they did, for instance, a few weeks ago about saudi arabia after the khashoggi murder. and you know, we'll see that obviously more in the future with the democratic house. now, the question is whether that means anything can actually be done. is there room for bipartisanship anymore? it's hard to see. it's hard to see where president trump and speaker pelosi sit down and come up with a plan. if they can't even keep the doors of government open over a relatively small amount of money. >> speaking of the government, the president just tweeted that he will be making a major

announcement concerning the shutdown and the border controversy tomorrow afternoon at 3:00 p.m., live from the white house. that's our reality -- our reality show announcement of the day, the president indicating that on a saturday afternoon. carol, ramesh, peter, thank you very much. have a great friday and we'll be right back. uch. have a great friday and we'll be right back ♪ ♪i've been really tryin', baby ♪tryin' to hold back this feeling for so long♪

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missed it, the twitter verse can be a scary place but house democrats are fortunate they have a twitter tutor. ♪ war, what is it good for >> new york congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez is officially in charge of schooling house members on how to use twitter. aoc has turned into a social media phenomenon with nearly 2.5 million twitter followers and while i'm sure her tips will be helpful, i have a few of my own. may i present, todd tweet tips. my first todd tweet tip, write a compelling, thoughtful opening tweet. british member of parliament, ed balls, didn't quite hit the mark with his first tweet. ed balls. it's accurate. but not exactly insightful. here's my second todd tweet tip. be specific. you do have 28 0 characters so use them wisely. iowa senator chuck grassly made that mistake.

windsor heights dairy queen is good place for you know what. senator, i don't know what and i'm not sure i care to find out. although mr. grassley does get an honorable mention for being the best tweeter over the age of 80. here's my third todd tweet tip. spell check. you don't want to be caught smocking with your hamberders. that would be unpresidented. if you follow all these tips, and trust me, you'll be a twitter pro, but you'll still get trolled online. that's a todd tweet tip guarantee. that's all we have for tonight. we'll be back monday with more mtb daily and if it's sunday, it's "meet the press," great line-up, amon is in -- >> i'm writing down all these notes. i could use a little help on twitter from you, my friend. >> i hear you. #itsyourshownow. >> hello, everyone. thanks. i'm amon in more ari on a bombshell night i