the other thing is the question of the time line. when you say wait for mueller, it's one thing if that's two weeks. it's another thing if it's four months or six months or a year. lisa green and ellie, thank you so much for joining us. rachel maddow show starts right now. >> much appreciated, have a great weekend. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy friday. this weekend will mark two years since the inauguration of this most unusual presidency. it turns out if you want to think of this as kind of a week-long celebration that we've been having, leading up to that two-year anniversary, it's been an intense week. i mean, think about what has happened over the past week. "the new york times" reported a week ago the fbi opened an inquiry into whether or not the president was secretly working on behalf of russia while he was president of the united states.

cnn published excerpts from the closed door congressional interview of the fbi general counsel. the interview that had apparently been part of the predicate for that "new york times" article and what cnn public britished was just as ha raising. james baker telling the congressional committee if the president of the united states fired jame comey at the behest of the russian government, that would be unlawful and unconstitutional. the republican congressman said, quote, is that what happened here? and baker responded, quote, i don't know. then an fbi lawyer, quote, cut off additional questions on that line of inquiry. if the president of the united states fired jim comey at the behest of the russian government, i don't know, maybe that's what happened. then the "washington post" reported that president trump confiscated notes from his translator and refused to allow

any u.s. official to know what was discussed in any of his in person meetings with vladimir putin. then "the new york times" reported that after the first one of those meetings, the one from which he apparently took his translator's notes, the president got on air force one to fly home and from air force one he called a reporter at "the new york times" so we now know was david sanger to make the case to him i guess potentially on behalf of the russian government we don't know but he made this case to "the new york times" reporter that russia had been falsely accused of interfeeing in the 2016 election. russia was not falsely accused of that. why was he telling that to a "new york times" reporter? then as we were absorbing that new information, "the new york times" further reported that trump repeatedly inquired/insisted over the past year that the united states should destroy nato. the united states should pull out of nato.

which of course is the apex of all of russia's greatest wishes and desires. again, this is all this week. i mean, this week, the president's longtime personal lawyer michael cohen also expressed fears for his own safety and the safety of his family if he goes ahead with his previously announced plans to testify before congress on february 7. cohen's relationship with the president and him becoming a cooperating witness for multiple sets of prosecutors has already resulted in federal prosecutors in new york designating the presidents an individual one for having allegedly directed cohen to commit campaign finance penalties. "the wall street journal" reported cohen was paid by trump during the campaign to finance an operation in which cohen attempted to rig online polls in trump's favor. choen w cohen was reportedly paid for that operation. he then turned around and paid his contractor who was working

on that operation $12,000 in cash in a walmart bag which also included a used boxing glove. okay. "vanity fair" reported on our air last night that michael cohen has documentation that trump directed that operation. just like he did the other. now charged in the district of new york as felonies. again, this is all the same week. this is how we're leading up to the two-year anniversary of trump being sworn in all the same week. now buzzfeed news has been the source of an all day furor today with their just volcanically explosive reporting that president trump personally instructed michael cohen to lie to congress about the trump tower moscow project. about how long negotiations went on and how involved trump and

his family were. remember michael cohen has pled guilty to lying to congress about that. buzzfeed reporting that trump directed cohen to make those false statements. buzzfeed reports the special counsel's office learned about the directive for cohen to lie to congress through interviews with multiple witness from the trump organization and internal company e-mails and a cache of other documents and buzzfeed further reports that cohen confirmed this to mueller's team. again, that the president directed him to lie to congress to cover up at least some aspect of the trump tower moscow project. aft are a day in which multiple members of congress described the buzzfeed report as, if true, the most serious allegations against trump yet. if true, the grounds for impeachment. if true, the inflection point in the entire scandal.

that if true caveat tonight itself blew up when the special counsel's office made this exceedingly rare public statement in response to the buzzfeed reporting. quote, buzzfeed's description of special statements, excuse me, buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding michael cohen's congressional testimony are not accurate. that is from the spokesman for the special counsel's office. now, i have on the air previously expressed envy and jealousy for peter carr because that seems like a great job if you're a spokesman for the special counsel's office. your job is to never say anything, right? the special counsel's office almost never makes public comments. i mean, we did a little survey of this tonight. at least as quickly as we could. we could only come up with three previous instances in the entirety of the mueller

investigation in which peter carr has spoken on the record to a reporter about what's going on in the investigation. the first one was april of last year. mcclatchy had published a story saying the mueller team had evidence that cohen had in fact traveled to prague, which would appear to buttress an accusation in the christopher steele dossier that he had gone to prague to meet with russians about the interference. mcclatchy published this piece saying mummer had evidence it did happen. after that report, we got a very -- at that point i think unprecedented statement from the spokesman for the special counsel. not directly disputing the story but giving a sort of general warning to the president ths th had been inaccuracies out there and every journalist should be careful about their sources. be very cautious about any source that claims to have knowledge of our investigation and dig deep into what they claim before reporting on it.

so that was last april from the special counsel's office. six months later in october after so many strange reporting that somebody was maybe trying to shop false sexual harassment allegations about robert mueller to the press, the special counsel's office put out a statement saying they had referred the matter to the fbi. finally the reporter at yahoo! news got the special counsel's office to confirm a key filing from the special counsel in the paul manafort case would be public. there had been a lot of expectation as to whether it would be sealed or public facing. that was a very minor comment from the special counsel but it was super helpful for all of us planning to cover that development in the manafort case. but we think that's kind of it. we think that's the universe. of the number of times the special counsel's office has made an on the record comment to a reporter. but now tonight they've really put out a big one. they've said this, pushing back on buzz feed's big scoop today.

i should say the buzz feed editor in speechief is going to here tonight. but this is what we got from the special counsel's office. quote, buzz feed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office regarding cohen's congressional testimony are not accurate. that's what we got from the special counsel's office. we are going to hear from buzz feed's editor tonight who has put out his own statement, quote, we stand by our reporting and the sources who informed it and we urge the special counsel, the special counsel to make clear what he's disputing. that's where we are tonight. you know, happy two years of the trump administration, right? this somehow we're celebrating the two-year jubilee in our country, with this week-long celebration of absolutely terrifying neck-snapping news. we're also in day 28 of a government shutdown. there's apparently not going to be a state of the union this year. the administration as of today is officially dropping sanctions

on companies associated with the russian oligarch who was sanctioned for election interference. how is your family celebrating the anniversary? because that's what we're doing as a country. the editor in chief at buzz feed has put out his own statement responding to the special counsel after the special counsel put out a rare statement disputing the reporting from buzz feed today. we're joined now by ben smith, the editor and chief of buzz feed news. i know it's short notice. >> sorry i couldn't make it in person. >> that's okay. let me know first and after ways the status right now of reporting this out in your shop and the response you guys are trying to assemble in terms of what the special counsel's office has said tonight? >> we're obviously continuing to face the story as we have been for two years. and, you know, right now trying to understand the special -- what this special -- what the

special counsel is actually saying in his statement. which is obviously disputing some element of the story but very difficult to understand which one. >> have you had interaction with the special counsel's office about this specific story prior to getting the state tonight from peter carr? >> i personally haven't but obviously the reporters -- they declined to comment but did sent over bits of michael cohen's test money. then 24 hours released. we have, you know, we describe our sources here as federal law enforcement officials involved in the investigation of the matter of the trump tower moscow. and we're not playing games with that characterization. these are strong sources close to the investigation. involved in the investigation. who told us it was accurate and stood by it. >> so let me just -- i'm just not actually i heard what you said in terms of contact with the special counsel's office ahead of publication, your reports contacted the special

counsel's office and put the full story to them or put you said pieces of michael cohen's testimony to them? >> i'm soccrry, as you usually , said we're preparing to report this, do you have any comment. they declined to comment. but sent over michael cohen -- the publicly released sort of confession. >> you said you've spoke within the sources for this story since publication and since the response tonight from the special counsel's office. >> since public bra cation. >> and your sources are not backing off what they've told your reporters? and are you confident that these sources are in a position to know what they tell you they know? >> yes, we are. >> obviously one of the black b boxes here is the justice department structure around the special counsel's office. there's been movement there. we've had the -- jeff sessions be recused. we've had him leave.

we've got an acting attorney general there now. there's different reporting about whether or not the acting attorney general matt whitaker or rod rosenstein is overseeing the investigation or dealing with important developments of the investigation on a day-by-day basis. do you have any concern the statement from the special counsel's office might be an effort to dissuade you and dissituate your reporters from pursuing this even if it is accurate? just because it either interferes with the special counsel's investigation in some way or is otherwise too uncomfortable as territory for this justice department? >> i mean, you know, there's -- these are some of the best lawyers in america here. this statement is obviously crafted by lawyers to mean something. it is not totally clear what it means. but, you know, i think we would like to know. it's hard to speculate when you aren't really clear on what it means. >> do you have anything you can tell us in terms of what to expect? obviously if the story needs to be withdrawn or corrected, i'm

assuming you will do that. if you can add to your reporting in a way that pushes the special counsel on this dispute, i imagine we will hear that from your reporters as well? >> yes, continuing to, you know, obviously tonight report very, very hard on this. one thing worth noting, this is a specific line of the russia investigation. the trump tower moscow story. which these reporters were way, way out in front of, broke the elements of, that did sit out there for a while last year. so this isn't coming out of a blue sky. and this is a line of reporting that has been repeatedly been the case. >> ben smith, buzz feed's editor in chief. very kinetic moment it must be. ben, thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you, rachel. >> so this has been a rollicking day on this story, the bombshell pushback from the special counsel's office on the bombshell reporting from buzz feed has created questions.

you heard me discuss some of them with ben. in terps of those reporters standing by the story. when he says these reporters absolutely pushed our understanding in what the trump tower moscow scandal is. it's true they did the definitive reporting in terms of us understanding how big the trump tower moscow project was, how long it went on for. it was buzz feed's reporting on that story that i think laid the groundwork for us to understand what anybody was talking about when michael cohen turned up in court in november to plead guilty to lying to congress related to his previous testimony about trump tower moscow. all these things are moving parts. these have proven to be well-sourced reporters who have been ahead of everybody else and whose previous reporting is born out later in court by things said by the special counsel. there's reporting questions here. there's very interesting questions about why the special counsel's office is speaking up on this story when they almost speak on nothing. and the legal questions of

course about what this reporting means. we've got some expert help to tackle that coming up. stay with us. lent why go with anybody else? we know their rates are good, we know that they're always going to take care of us. it was an instant savings and i should have changed a long time ago. it was funny because when we would call another insurance company, hey would say "oh we can't beat usaa" we're the webber family. we're the tenney's we're the hayles, and we're usaa members for life. ♪ get your usaa auto insurance quote today. just as important as what you get out of it? ♪ our broccoli cheddar is made with aged melted cheddar, simmered broccoli, and no artificial flavors. enjoy 100% clean soup today. panera. food as it should be.

go back to the day that michael cohen was last charged in federal court. for a long time now, i've been stumped about something that happened that day. i mean, the first time he was charged in federal court that made more sense. in august this past year, feels like a million years ago. that was not too much of a surprise. cohen's office and his home and his hotel room and his safety depos deposit box had all been raided in april. they had all of his files. we know they'd taken a ton of evidence in april. we could see a lot of fighting over the admissibility in court. when he turned up in august in federal court, there was sort of a sense we knew we would see him in court sooner or later.

the charges made sense given what we knew the fbi had taken from him and what they had been looking at. on that first day of his in court, michael cohen pled guilty to five counts, five felony counts of tax evasion. there was consulting he had done he hadn't paid taxes on, some real estate sales he brokered he hadn't paid taxes on. he also apparently sold a fancy purse. he brokered the sale of a fancy purse and had not paid taxes on that either. most of his tax trouble, though, related to his involvement in the taxi business. that too made sense. at least from the perspective of those of us who had been on the outside watching. because michael cohen's partner in the taxi business had himself turned up in court in may and at that court a peppearance in may that guy was allowed to -- it seemed like he was allowed to absolutely skate on what

otherwise looked like a whole list of serious charges. the guy, his nickname is literally the taxi king. he was michael cohen's taxi business partner. he got this whole host of charges against him boiled down to basically nothing in a new york state courtroom in may in exchange for him becoming a cooperating witness for the government. so it made sense that anything that might have been a little bit hisnky, made sense that prosecutors nailed down evidence of that once they got his partner to cooperate, right. so him turning up in court, michael cohen turning up in court in august, it was dramatic but also sort of orderly in terms of us understanding. law enforcement in new york got search warrants to raid him and his office, they flip his business partner. within a matter of months they've got him in court pleading guilty on five felony tax evasion charges. and a bank fraud charge.

in that instance, it wasn't him lying to the irs, it was lying to the bank in order to get a loan. so all that, michael cohen's first day in federal court that all made sense. it made sense that he was in court in new york. it made sense it was the u.s. attorney's office from new york that had their guy on the steps pounding his chest a little over cohen's guilty pleadings. of course in terms of the national impact of that court appearance, the blaring headlines were about the other two financial felonies michael pled to at the same time because those other two weren't just about his business practices or his taxes or his handbag resale hobby. those other two felonies were about the guy he had worked for for more than a decade. the other two felonies that day were the campaign finance felonies cohen pled to. felonies he said donald trump had directed him to commit. those two felonies involved hush money payments that were designed to influence the

presidential election by keeping secret allegations of extramarital affairs involving mr. trump. and so those two felonies were the big explanation points when michael cohen turned up in for the federal court in new york. those were serious felonies. he pled guilty to them. both implicated sitting president of the united states participating in those felonies. but, again, for those of us watching from outside this case, trying to keep track, trying to figure out what this means and was there is going for the country at large, for the presidency, for the existential question of this president, whether it was borne out of a foreign intelligence operation. the related question whether we are still living with a knowing participant in that foreign intelligence operation living in the white house. for those of us as citizens watching michael cohen, watching him in court as one player in this larger story, that first

day he was in court in new york, in august, was actually pretty -- it was a pretty cut and dry understandable thing even if it was dramatic. they got his financial records. got his business contacts. they followed the money. nailed him on these financial related felonies. guilty day one, i understand that. we all did. before today, though, i did not understand michael cohen day two in federal court. because fast forward 100 days past the time when he first appeared in federal court in august, in that relatively cut and dry day when he pled guilty to felonies. surprise, michael cohen was back in court again. this is right at the end of november. and this time it was different. it was different prosecutors. when he was back in november, it was special counsel robert mueller. this time was pleading guilty

again but to a different species of crime. this time, it was a felony false statements charge about lying to congress. about something mueller's prosecutors called the moscow project. the trump organization plan to build a trump tower in russia. it was reportedly going to be financed by sanctioned russian banks. building the tower would have required the approval and the facilitation of the kremlin. prosecutors say it was a project that could produce hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for president trump and his business. this moscow project was something the trump organization was pursuing actively and working on during the campaign, even while the president was publicly maintaining that he had no business, no deals, zero investments in russia. what cohen pled guilty to in november waslying to congress about this moscow project. he told congress the effort was

over and done with by january 2016. that apparently wasn't true. work on the project apparently went on for months thereafter. he apparently minimized in his testimony any prospect of him traveling to russia to pursue that deal. he also minimized the contacts he had with the kremlin. that second time in november, to plead guilty to that one additional charge in federal court. but why did that day even happen? as far as we know, nobody else is being charged with lying to congress. not through any or all -- all the other mishagas in this case so far. given that cohen just pled guilty to eight other serious felonies, tacking on this one extra lying to congress charge it wasn't going to make much of a difference in his fate. explicitly it will not make any difference in his fate. when it came time to be

sentenced, prosecutors told the judge in his case that they were perfectly happy for this lying to congress charge to just be folded in with the other felonies cohen had already pled to in august. make it all one case, that's fine. you might remember when it came to cohen's sentencing day in december, remember how he had kind of a dr. jekyll and mr. hyde sentencing recommendation? the new york federal prosecutors. the ones who hit him with those eight financial felonies. they told the judge, hey, throw the book at him, he committed these terrible crimes. he barely helped with cooperation at all. he's a bad guy. when it came to the other extra charge, the one that arrived later from mummer, the lying to congress charge about the trump tower moscow thing, mueller's recommendation to the judge was basically hey, judge, we know it's bad to lie to congress, we know this is techniqcally a

serious time but he doesn't need extra. this lying to congress thing, we don't want him to be published any extra at all. and that has sort of stuck in my craw ever since. because why did mueller's team go to the trouble of hauling cohen back in court and charging him with that one extra thing? why go through the bother? i'm not trying to minimize the seriousness of lying to congress. you should never do it. if you do, you should probably go to jail. in this case, it's not like congress even knew they'd been lied to. did congress really have any reason to believe that trump tower moscow planning went through june 2016 instead of just through january 2016? and that was the kind of material lie they should be worried about from coheb's testimony? i mean, it would be one thing if congress knew it had been lied to. and they were very upset about it and therefore referred cohen for prosecution and that's why mueller brought this charge of

lying to congress. that's not at all what happened here. "the washington post" nailed this down the day after. quote, the intelligence committee did not refer cohen's case for prosecution. rather, a committee staffer said the special counsel robert mueller asked the committee for the mueller was given a copy with the concept sent of michael coh attorney. it seems like this is what may have happened here. it seems like in the course of the time michael cohen was cooperating with prosecutors, he apparently let them know something about that false testimony he's given to the intelligence committee. mueller confirmed the content of his congressional testimony by getting a copy of the interview transcript from the senate intelligence mueller went through the trouble of charging him for that false testimony.

he's really helping us, he's being great. not worth one extra day in jail, okay, judge? when buzz feed published the story about cohen's false testimony to congress, this bombshell story that lit up the news cycle all day today, the narrative of buzz feed's story finally made it seem like cohen being charged might make sense. if that were true, that mueller didn't just collect evidence in the course of his qinquiry. if mueller also collected evidence that indicated the president directed cohen to lie to congress, then it would suddenly make sense that mueller's prosecutors would go out of their way to haul michael cohen back into court separate and apart from all the other felonies related to his finances, make him plead guilty to the crime of lying to congress even though they wanted to make sure that additional

guilty plea would have no effect on cohen's ultimate fate. if the buzz feed story were true, that mueller's prosecutors had been evidence that trump directed him to commit that crime, well then it would make sense, right? then it would make sense they brought him back into court. because then the reason they would have brought him back into court is because they were laying the presented cot with the courts that in fact here on the record is cohen pleading guilty to lying to congress. that would then set them up basically so they could subsequently charge another person with directing cohen to commit that crime. you can't charge someone with subborning perjury unless you establish for the record that perjury occurred, right? it has never made sense to me why mueller's prosecutors would hustle cohen back into court to plead guilty for that one extra charge. specifically for no additional punishment. if that lying to congress charge was not laying the predicate for

other people to be charged with related crimes, would this pushback from the special counsel's office on buzz feed's report tonight, if that means that's not where this was going after all, then how do we explain that part of the story? how do we understand that random stand-alone, no punishment after the fact charge brought by mueller, even after it was clear cohen was already going to jail on these other crimes? i have just the person to ask. that's next. i get unlimited 1.5% cash back. it's so simple, i don't even have to think about it. so i think about mouthfeel. i don't think about the ink card. i think about nitrogen ice cream in supermarkets all over the world. i think about the details. fine, i obsess over the details. think about every part of your business except the one part that works without a thought. your ink card. chase ink business unlimited. chase ink business unlimited, with unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase. chase for business. make more of what's yours.

every day, people are fighting type 2 diabetes with food, family and farxiga, the pill that starts with f. farxiga, along with diet and exercise, helps lower a1c in adults with type 2 diabetes. it's one pill a day. and although it's not a weight loss drug, it may help you lose weight. do not take if allergic to farxiga. if you experience symptoms of a serious allergic reaction such as rash, swelling, difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking and seek medical help right away. do not take farxiga if you have severe kidney problems, are on dialysis, or have bladder cancer. tell your doctor right away

if you have blood or red color in your urine or pain while you urinate. farxiga can cause serious side effects, including dehydration, genital yeast infections in women and men, serious urinary tract infections, low blood sugar and kidney problems. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have signs of ketoacidosis, which is serious and may lead to death. ask your doctor about the pill that starts with f and visit farxiga.com for savings. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help.

starting late last night and continuing till now we've been unpacking the story published by buzz feed news reporting the president directed his attorney to lie to congress about the trump tower moscow project and reporting that the special counsel learned this both from cohen but also from other witnesses and from other documents. then suddenly late tonight, the special counsel's office issued a statement disputing at least the part of the story that has to do with the special counsel. mueller's office saying in this rare statement tonight that buzzfeed's, quote, description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and characterization of documents and test phone imony obtained b office. are not accurate. description of specific statements. description of specific statements. characterization of documents and testimony obtained by the office. tonight, buzzfeed says they stand by their reporting.

and they say they are urging the special counsel to make clear exactly what his office is disputing. joining us chuck rosenberg former u.s. attorney in the eastern district of virginia, former senior and fbi justice department official. it is great to have you with us tonight. thank you for making time. >> my pleasure, thank you for having me. >> let me just -- i want you to tell me what you think is important about this. your feelings about the reporting and the first instance but also the statement from the special counsel's office about it. >> there's an aspect of 5-year-old soccer to this. if you ever watched kids play, they all sort of mass together and every now and then the ball squirts loose and they run over to the ball together. we did that with respect to the buzzfeed story. i fear we're doing that now with respect to the mueller statement. i think what you said earlier about the prosecutor's laying a predicate when cohen pled guilty to lying to congress is exactly right. and here's why.

go back to first principles. look at what mueller team said in their sentencing memorandum regarding michael cohen and that charge of lying to congress. if you don't mind, i'd like to read just one sentence to you. >> please. >> the information provided by cohen about the moscow project, in these proffer sessions, is consistent with and corroborated by other information obtained in the course of the special counsel office's investigation. that's mueller's own words, right. saying what cohen said about the moscow project, the lies to congress, others being involved, the fact that the mueller team has corroborating information in their possession comes right from mueller himself. i think that's what really matters here. >> so just to drill down on the importance of that, they've got information from cohen that according to the special

counsel's office is corroborated by other evidence. >> that's right. >> that is what they stated in conjunction or in support of cohen's guilty plea to lying to congress about this matter. i will say one of the main questions, the most potent questions i think about this buzz feed reporting today has been -- well, if mueller has this evidence that cohen was directed to lie when he lied to congress, why wasn't that charged or otherwise indicated in court that day in november when cohen was there pleading guilty to lying to congress. would you expect if the special counsel's office did have the kind of information that buzzfeed says they have, that somebody directed cohen to do this? would you expect that to have turned up in the charging documents that day in court when cohen pled? >> no, not necessarily. because you want to keep some of your powder dry. laying the predicate, as you said earlier, is precisely i think what the mueller team is

doing here. they want to use michael cohen or any -- look, generically, you have a defendant plead guilty to conduct he committed when you want to use that defendant against other with the same thing. whether it's the taxi king, whether it's michael cohen. you have them plead to a set of operative facts describing what they did. because some day down the road, you're going to use them to help you get others who did the same thing. that's what i think happened here. but you don't want to sort of lay all your cards on the table as a prosecutor, because you're still investigating that thing that conduct, the others who were involved in it. what the mueller team did made sense to me. the way they described it really in some ways buttresses the core of the buzzfeed story. now, obviously the mueller team is pushing back on aspects of the buzzfeed story. i think in the main, what you can glean from their sentencing

memorandum, the core of the b z buzzfeed story is accurate. >> in terms of the way they are pushing back, we heard from ben smith who's the editor at buzzfeed, very early on in the show tonight, plainly frustrated with trying to parse the special counsel's statement, trying to understand what exactly was in dispute. i mean what the statement says is that -- what's not accurate is buzzfeed's description of specific statements to the special counsel's office and buzzfeed's characterization of documents and testimony obtained by the office. do you think that if mueller's office wanted to say this allegation is false, the president didn't direct cohen to lie, they could have put out a more blunt statement that wasn't parising this so tightly? >> absolutely. it would have been very simple to say the reporting is dead wrong in every respect. they didn't do that. and i think the emphasis you put on those words, the specific

descriptions, the characterizations, sort of is a window into the thinking of the mueller team. there are parts of the reporting that trouble them. i have no idea, rachel, by the way, why they decided on this occasion to push back on the story. i'm sure there are other stories that got other things wrong. but, again, in the main, i come back to this point. it seems to me that the core of the story is correct and we can determine that from the mueller team's own court filing. that's really the best place to look i think. all the time. for what's really going on in this case. >> chuck rosenberg, form aer eastern district. clarion voice as always. much appreciated. >> thank you, my pleasure. >> we're following this extraordinary turn in this reporting. the famously silent special counsel's office speaking tonight, pushing back on the buzzfeed report but in a very narrow way. you're about as likely to get a

response out of special counsel's office as you are to get attacked by wombats. we have talked to somebody who has been on the end of a special counsel comment. he joins us next. he joins us next -these people, they speak a language we cannot understand. ♪ [ telephone ringing ] -whoa. [ indistinct talking ] -deductible? -definitely speaking insurance. -additional interest on umbrella policy? -can you translate? -damage minimization of civil commotion. -when insurance needs translating,

get answers in plain english at progressiveanswers.com. ♪ -he wants you to sign karen's birthday card. it's a high honor. -he wants you to sign karen's birthday card. each day justin at work... walk. and after work. he does it all with dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort. to keep him feeling more energized. dr. scholl's. born to move.

[indistinct conversation] [friend] i've never seen that before. ♪ ♪

i have... ♪ 850 days this year? if the news keeps going on at this race of course we're all going to need neck braces to keep up with it. as the special counsel's office tonight pushes back on buzzfeed's bombshell reporting that the president ordered his longtime personal lawyer to lie to congress. lying to congress is a felony to which his longtime personal lawyer already pled guilty. as we are making our way through the impact of that statement and that reporting tonight, one of america's legendary investigative reporters is going to join us here in just a moment. i want to tell you that we also just got this from another young legendary investigate itive

reporter, from ronan farrow, who won the pulitzer prize last year for his reporting on the me too movement. ronan farrow just posted this. i can't speak to buzzfeed's sourcing but for what it's worth, i declined to run with parts of the narrative they conveyed based on a source central to the story repeatedly disputing the idea that trump directly issued orders of that kind. note that the general thrust of cohen lying to congress in accordance with or to support and advance trump's agenda per cohen's legal memo is not in dispute. more specific idea that trump issued and memorialized repeated direct instructions. again, that being posted tonight by ronan farrow. saying basically he had access to, as he puts it, parts of the narrative that buzzfeed conveyed in their story and felt it was so strongly disputed by a single source central to the story that he did not run with it himself.

well, as i said, michael isikoff will join us. stay with us. it's absolute confidence in 30,000 precision parts. or it isn't. it's inspected by mercedes-benz factory-trained technicians. or it isn't. it's backed by an unlimited mileage warranty, or it isn't. for those who never settle, it's either mercedes-benz certified pre-owned, or it isn't. the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event. now through february 28th. only at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer. with its historical records... ancestry's dna test ...you could learn you're from ireland... ...donegal, ireland... ...and your ancestor was a fisherman. with blue eyes.

just like you. begin your journey at ancestry.com. saved an average of $412," syou probably won't believe me. but you can believe this, real esurance employee nancy abraham. look her up online. esurance, it's surprisingly painless. little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats moderate to severe

plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla,75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you.

♪ [ dobaxter.ng ] it's bedtime. peace of mind should never be out of reach. [ voice command beep ] xfinity home. xfinity home connects you to total home security you can control from anywhere on any device. and it protects you with 24/7 professional monitoring. i guess we're sleeping here tonight. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. call, go online or demo in an xfinity store today. b . before their statement tonight pushing back on the buzzfeed reporting, we actually think the last statement -- last public statement from the special counsel's office went to reporter michael isikoff at yahoo! news. when he got the special counsel to confirm that a key filing in the manafort case would be public. special counsel's office told isikoff, yes, this filing will

be public, and we were all agoing. michael isikoff, how did you get them to speak? joining us now is the great michael isikoff, chief investigative correspondent for yahoo! news. michael, great to have you here. thanks for making time tonight. >> great to be with you, rachel. >> so you are as deep in this story as anyone. >> yes. >> you are better with sources than anybody that i know. and you are an the encyclopedia who never let's go of any word or fact you have ever learned. given that, given what i think of as your sort of encyclopedic knowledge, what counselido you important about the buzzfeed reporting? >> there were red flags about the buzzfeed story from the get-go. i mean, you know, you have this really bold lead that the president directed michael cohen to lie. but no detail on where, when, how, how was it communicated, what exactly is the president supposed to have said? and, you know, those details are the ball game.

and it's also, you know -- and then the documents that are referred to. what are the documents? where did they come from? we know that the president doesn't use e-mails or texts. so, you know, whose e-mails and texts would corroborate a statement by cohen? it's also worth noting that, you know, it was inconsistent with cohen's own words when he pled guilty to lying about the trump tower moscow meeting. he said in federal court that day, i made these statements to be consistent with individual one, that's donald trump's political messaging, and out of loyalty to individual one, donald trump. he didn't say anything about being directed to make the statements. he said he was trying to be consistent with trump's messaging. so all that was good reason to question the story from the get-go. and i think when you get the special counsel's statement, which obviously was tailored to what was attributed to mueller's

office itself. that's why it was so carefully worded. it was talking about what buzzfeed said about what the special counsel had accumulated. but all that said, i just want to make one point. the unfortunate thing about a story like this is, it distracts from what we do know and what is real and what is significant. and that's what cohen pled to in the first place. he was the personal lawyer for donald trump. he was in direct communication during the presidential campaign with a kremlin official about securing land and financing for a deal that could allow the president the then candidate to make hundreds of millions of dollars. that was a conflict of interest. that was significant in and of itself. >> michael, let me ask you about what you just said about cohen's statement when he pled guilty about lying to congress on this. as you point out, and i'm so glad you brought this up. he said, i lied to congress about the trump tower moscow

project. so that my testimony would be consistent with what trump had said as a candidate. it wasn't, though. because his specific lie was that trump -- that the trump tower moscow project had ended -- the planning for that ended in january. >> in january. >> ended several months later. and actually, the summer of 2016. trump had never made any claims like that at all. trump had claimed as a candidate that he had no deals in russia, no pending deals, no investment, nothing going on whatsoever. trump had never given anything so finally nuanced as to explain the exact kind of lie that cohen would have made about the timing of that deal. that's part of this that i never understood about why cohen needed to lie in that way. >> well, there was some reporting about this at some point. and, you know, i have to say, as -- however en psych paidic you think i am on this, i'm fuzzy an exactly when the first reports on the trump tower moscow projects emerged. but certainly at a minimum, by

saying it ended in january at the time of the iowa caucus rather than in june after all the primaries and trump was the nominee, you were distancing the candidate during the campaign from the project. that it ended early on, and didn't go on, you know, well after that. and i think also, as i pointed out before, you know, to me, one of the most damning things in that plea was that cohen, you know, was in direct communication with a kremlin official, a deputy to dmitry peskov, putin's top, you know, press aide, about getting land and financing for the deal. that was pretty -- you know, important information that we didn't know until michael cohen pled guilty to it. >> michael isikoff, chief investigative correspondent at yahoo! news, coauthor of russian roulette. thank you for being here. we'll be right back. stay with us. here we'll be right back. stay with us

choose glucerna, with slow release carbs to help manage blood sugar, and start making everyday progress. glucerna. so lionel, what does 24/5 mean to you?rade well, it means i can trade after the market closes. it's true. so all... evening long. ooh, so close. yes, but also all... night through its entirety. come on, all... the time from sunset to sunrise. right. but you can trade... from, from... from darkness to light. ♪ you're not gonna say it are you? my digestive system used to make me feel sluggish. but those days are over. now i take metamucil every day. it naturally traps and removes the waste that weighs me down. so i feel...lighter. try metamucil and begin to feel what lighter feels like.

take the metamucil two week challenge and lighten up. just take metamucil every day for two weeks. are you ready for the challenge? get started at metamucil dot com. moit's not theirs, it's mine. the rx350l with three rows for up to seven passengers. lease the 2019 rx350 for $449 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

you know it's been a heck of a week. i know you might feel like you need to rest for a minute. but i have to warn you that something is coming. it's going to be infrastructure week again. ah. the first time trump announced infrastructure week, he was going to -- that was back in 2017, got a little overshadowed by the public congressional testimony of the fbi director he had just fired. then they tried to do infrastructure week over again. trump celebrated that iteration of infrastructure week by defending the white nationalists and neo-nazis marching in charlottesville. and then they tried infrastructure week again and that's when michael cohen admitted to paying hush money to a porn star to influence the election. needless to say, we have never gotten any infrastructure work from this white house, and after the week that we've just had, i don't know that we can take another infrastructure week right now. but they're apparently trying another one. hold on! that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> good e